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I red last week somewhere that a liion battery lifetime isabout 300 times charging, does anybody now or this is true?
Willem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
You can find there answer to your question..
The life span is dependent upon aging (shelf life). From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in capacity. This means an older battery will not last as long as a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This drawback is not widely published.
Wilsas said:
I red last week somewhere that a liion battery lifetime isabout 300 times charging, does anybody now or this is true?
Willem
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i must charge my diamond 2 or 3 times a day duz that mean im gunna have to buy 3 batterys a year lol
mancsoulja said:
i must charge my diamond 2 or 3 times a day duz that mean im gunna have to buy 3 batterys a year lol
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same, my diamond is connected about the same amount of times per day, and then left on charge when im at home to ensure i have adequate battery, eek!
I think the 300 times charging is refer to 300 full complete cycle of charging. It need to be refer to complete a cycle from fully discharge to fully charge. If you charge your battery from 50% to 100%. It is only 1/2 cylce.
Anyone can correct if i'm wrong.
I think a complete discharge counts as 1. If you charge the battery now and then without letting it discharge completely it will last longer. This is quite Li-Ion specific.
In heavy usage a battery lasts for 2 years easy.
Riel said:
In heavy usage a battery lasts for 2 years easy.
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Even when you charge it 2 times a day? This should mean about 1400 charging?
Willem
Right, firstly, forget anything that has been written above. 300 is crap. (the film '300' isnt tho)
lithium ion batteries generally last longer when kept topped up, rather than cycled.
The batteries in out Diamonds are lith ion, but have been specifically designed for top up charging, therefore last longer.
you can expect your battery to last for 3 years of continuos use, unless there is a fault or it is damaged. It will slowely deteriorate over time.
I have just bought a new battery for my laptop, which is Lithium Ion, as was the original. This is after 10 years!
mugglesquop said:
... I have just bought a new battery for my laptop, which is Lithium Ion, as was the original. This is after 10 years!
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OK. I know it is out of the topic, but i still want to say: My laptop which is a precision workstation laptop's battery only last 1 year.
So, it is fair that if you discharge and charge frequently, it will deteriorate faster. This is fair enough.
Li-ion battery life - the facts
Skipping back to the facts for a moment.... the HTC Diamond standard battery is a Li ion battery with Co chemistry.
1. Li-ion batteries last between 300-500 deep cycles (from 0% to 100%).
2. Partial recharges are good. A partial recharge from ~25% to ~75% is less damaging than a recharge from 0-100%, and only counts (roughly) as around 1/4 of the impact of a deep cycle. Li ion technology has no charge memory effect, which means that the battery capacity is completely unaffected by partial charging (n.b. this is NOT the case for NiCad or NiMH technology).
3. Li-ion batteries also decay at a constant rate over time, dependent on temperature, and regardless of use. They lose around 20% capacity per year at 25C, but this is increased at higher temperatures. Shelf life is optimised by keeping unused batteries at 6C (fridge temp) and with ~40% charge. But do not freeze them!
4. 100% charge causes accelerated decay rates. So keep your battery below full charge.
5. Deep cycle the battery occasionally (~once per 30 charges), to recalibrate your charge meter. Otherwise the charge level shown will become inaccurate.
6. Key advantage for Co chemistry is high energy density - up to 200mWh/g. Key disadvantage is the charge/discharge limit, which is ~1.2 coulomb.
7. Conclusion is that you can expect your Diamond battery to last for ~3 yrs of hard daily use. If you take care of it, it will last for double that time.
More info can be found on http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm,
and at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
My Droid 4 appears to charge to over 4.3V. Yikes!
Reported by Battery Monitor Widget Pro: 4.317V (pretty sure I saw 4.351V one time but I don't know how BMW calculates/reports voltage)
Measured with Fluke 88V across battery terminals: (drat...are there convenient probe contacts? didn't find anything obvious without deconstructing it)
Found this for the Nexus Galaxy
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1507528
Anything like this for the Droid 4? an app (root)?
It appears some sort of battery management boots when the phone is plugged in while turned off? Just curious since I always leave my phone on.
My past 3 smart phones I've kept for 3 to 6 years each. With the non-removable battery in the Droid 4 I'd like to find something to extend it's life.
I figure Motorola went with the lightest smallest battery that would power the thing for the better part of a work day and last for the average user's retention time for a phone (1 year? maybe 2?). It appears they are overcharging the battery to squeeze some extra capacity out of it. Greatly reduces the usable battery life but still meets the design criteria. I'd rather go with something like 10% - 90% charge cycles and double or (more likely) triple the life of the battery.
Right now I'm using Battery Monitor with the max voltage alarm but that means you have to be there to hear the alarm and unplug from the charger. Not really practical.
Since I mostly charge at home I'm considering wiring up a usb cable for my ElectriFly RC charger but that's not as convenient or flexible.
For reference, the following are excerpts from Battery University:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
"Most cells charge to 4.20V/cell with a tolerance of +/–50mV/cell. Higher voltages could increase the capacity, but the resulting cell oxidation would reduce service life"
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/the_li_polymer_battery_substance_or_hype
"Charge and discharge characteristics of Li-polymer are identical to other Li-ion systems "
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
"Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery."
Charge Level (v) -- Discharge Cycles -- Capacity at Full Charge
---- [4.30] --------------- [150 - 250] -------------- [110%]
----- 4.20 ----------------- 300 - 500 ---------------- 100%
----- 4.10 ----------------- 500 - 1000 --------------- 90%
----- 4.00 --------------- 1200 - 2000 --------------- 70%
----- 3.92 --------------- 2400 - 4000 --------------- 50%
The Droid 4 uses a different kind of battery chemistry than most other li-ion batteries. You can read about it here on this Anandtech article on the RAZR (which uses the same chemistry, they didn't bother writing an article on the D4).
The interesting bit:
When I reviewed the Bionic, I made note of the device’s higher than normal Li-Ion voltage battery (3.8 V nominal) and later received word that this is actually a new Li-Ion battery chemistry that Motorola is adopting across its device line. We’ve now seen it in the Bionic, the Atrix 2, and thanks to some teardowns know that it’s inside the RAZR as well.
As an aside, people love to talk about how battery tech is going nowhere, but here we have a clear example of a few mass-market devices actually shipping with higher voltage batteries. Now that I know it exists, I want this in everything.
Interestingly enough, the sealed internal battery on the RAZR is 1750 mAh at 3.8 V (6.7 Whr) which is ever so slightly larger than the Bionic’s stock 1735 mAh at 3.8 V (6.6 Whr) battery. Like the Bionic, the battery has a thin profile and extends across almost the entire area of the device. We’ve now seen two different approaches to getting devices ultra thin: dual-sided PCBs that take up about a third of the areal profile (which is what Samsung and Apple do), saving the rest for a thick battery, and the Motorola approach with a single-sided PCB and a thin battery that extends over the entire area.
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Anyway, the point is that that what you're seeing is normal. If your D4 isn't charging to that voltage (which can happen if your battery stats gets screwed up), battery life can be ... disappointing.
Hope this helps!
podspi said:
Anyway, the point is that that what you're seeing is normal. If your D4 isn't charging to that voltage (which can happen if your battery stats gets screwed up), battery life can be ... disappointing.
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I agree that "normal" is "by design" but that's not what I want. I expect the designed duty cycle for the battery is less than 2 years.
I understand that charging to 90% will shorten time between getting on a charger but I can't go a whole day now anyway.
I plan to keep the phone for another 3, 4 or more years.
The battery or failure (worn out) is not covered under any of the warranty plans.
The battery is not removable and getting it replaced is probably not inexpensive (along with some probability of damaging the phone during replacement and probability of issues after).
My understanding is that (at least for now) upgrading or activating promotional equipment will cause me to lose my grandfathered $30 unlimited data.
Right now I usually charge in the morning, afternoon and late at night (phone stays on 24x7).
If I had something to limit charging to 90% unattended I would be leaving it on the charger over night and probably a couple of times during the day.
I am rarely away from a power source for very long. Charger at home, charger in the car, charger at work. Plugging in is not all that inconvenient.
If that triples the life of my battery that's HUGE.
The issue is leaving it on a charger unattended and having it stop charging at 90%.
[-deleted-]
Some more data:
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-1429825.html
Another note:
These are 3.8V not 3.7V cells (100mV higher listed)
So, if you take your above chart and bump everything up by 100mV, 100% depth of charge is achieved at/around 4.3V (instead of 4.2V). I can believe a phone manufacturer would want to hit 100% charge if the cycles available are 300-500 (that's 1-2 years for 'average' users).
The info on that mac forum seems to indicate something about the 3.8V cells also having more available cycles, but that may be related to when they are used in stock configurations for the 3.7V cell (100mV less, double or better the usable cycle count).
Motorola is pretty good about covering their tracks and keeping things quiet (I worked on the communications equipment side of the pond for awhile) so finding spec's/data/charge curves for custom built batteries is going to be tricky. Easiest would be finding where they're getting them/re-branding and finding out exactly what they are.
Hope you can read Chinese
Brandon314159 said:
Some more data:
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-1429825.html
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This is the problem... (unless I missed it following all those links in that post) I didn't see any real data other than a battery labeled "3.8V". That post kind of sums it up in closing with:
Given the evidence, I think we'll likely see a new battery chemistry in the next iPhone. However, this needs to be taken with a grain of salt, since we don't know if the 3.8V chemistry is what LG is using. Even if we find out that the new LG battery is 3.8V, that doesn't mean it's the same 3.8V technology we're seeing in the new iPhone. Since Apple loves to talk about their batteries, if it is featured, I think there's a good possibility they may talk about it. If they do, that could confirm they're using LG's tech. Still, if they're using a 3.8V battery, one must ask why Apple made the change if it didn't have some benefits in store for the new iPhone ultimately. It does, without question, at least confirm a new battery chemistry. The nominal voltages of batteries are directly related to the chemistry utilized within, so you wouldn't get 3.7V and 3.8V both using the exact same chemistry.
From the anandtech article: Most of the time, users quote battery capacity in just mAh because you can be assured that the nominal per-cell voltage of consumer grade lithium-ion batteries is going to remain the same, at 3.7 V nominal, and 4.2 V fully charged for a Lithium-manganese oxide (LiMn2O4) battery. That isn’t something that was just decided on; the voltage falls literally out of the electrochemistry of the reaction. Lithium is the ideal anode for an electrochemical cell because it has the lowest redox potential, at –3.05 V, and it’s very light, at 6.94 g/mol. Combine that with a cathode of your choice, and you get a battery. Relatively standard cathode choices are things like Mn2O4 or CoO2 or NiO2, with the first and second being popular choices. In reality, a graphite anode is used alongside a LiMn2O4 cathode to make things safer, and ions migrate between the cathode and anode during charge and discharge. I’ll spare you the hand waving, but the anode reaction gives you –3.0 V, the cathode reaction 1.15 V, combine them, and you get a ΔE of 4.15 V. You can see where the 4.2 V comes from purely from this, with a little bit of fudge factor. Each battery is different, but it’s again just a material choice.
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Still can't find any pointer to any "new chemistry" other than allusions to it... There hasn't been any new battery "chemistry" in years and I think that would be a really big deal. I'm sticking with the info in my first post for the time being. Especially the table at the bottom.
Lets look at it this way:
* charging to 4.3 V *
Right now, starting with a charged battery in the morning I have to put it on the charger about once during the day and it's pretty much done again at the end of the day. That's just sort of my average usage.
* charging to 4.1 V *
If I were to only charge it to 90% I would probably have to put it on the charger about twice during the day (and again at the end of the day) and I would approximately quadruple the usable number of charge cycles.
[i'm really bad at math...]
So I would be putting it on the charger 1.5 number of times to get a ~4x increase in the number of usable cycles?
I can deal with the inconvenience of an extra charge during the day for the added battery life before replacement is required.
I cannot deal with the inconvenience if each charge has to be attended (to unplug it when it reaches 4.1V)
Can someone do an app to cut off my charge at a configurable voltage?
You might have a look at this (not for the faint of heart):
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_Material_for_Lithium_Rechargeable_Batteries
Click "view" on the right when that page comes up.
It has more to do with chemistry than much else, but the basic premise is that by using certain cathode materials, stretching available capacity out of a Lithium Cobalt Oxide battery can warrant the higher voltage with less of an available cycle charges hit than you might think. They're talking about up to 4.5V in this article although they're admitting losses of available cycles at high voltages.
I just skimmed through it so if you're really curious, dig deep (I'm at work so limited).
I'm a chemistry major so take it with a grain of salt
Ok... that made my eyes bleed.
something about blah, blah ... increased stability up to 4.5v ... blah, blah, ...dual doping ... blah, blah, ...microwave heating for 25 minutes...
No idea if manufacturing it might cost more than the phone or if that is what might have gone into my Droid 4, or how quantify increased stability up to 4.5v in terms of increased cycles.
but yes, from what I can tell, it does look like someone made some sort of advancement in battery tech
Did anybody find an app to do this?
I've been following the great battery impression thread, which discusses ways to tweak the Nexus 4 settings, ROMs, and so forth for maximum run time between charging. This thread focuses on a different battery concern.
The Nexus 4 lithium polymer battery is sealed, and as far as I know, there are still several unknowns about replacing it. We've seen a tear-down showing how to remove the battery. However, as of now, few users have attempted it and there's not a consensus about how easy or difficult it is to do. Questions include:
Even with the correct tools, are the tabs that secure the Nexus 4's back prone to breakage, potentially leaving the case borked?
Is the battery difficult to extricate from its compartment?
Will it a high quality replacement battery become available inexpensively on eBay and elsewhere, or is it this battery, which was not designed to be user-replaceable, too much of an oddball for that to happen meaning that a replacement battery will be expensive and hard to find?
That said, the ease (or lack thereof) of replacing the Nexus 4's battery isn't what I've come here to discuss.
Given the unknowns about battery replacement, my concern is to how to maximize the Nexus 4 battery charge cycles and reduce the capacity drop of the battery over time. It could be bad if after just a year, the Nexus 4's capacity is already noticeably dropping. Not possible? I'm not so sure. Based on what I've read, it may depend upon how we handle charging.
This article at "Battery University" discusses the discharge characteristics of Lithium batteries, and it is my understanding that Lithium Polymer batteries, like the one in the Nexus 4 mirror these characteristics.
My takeaway from the article is:
Charging the Nexus 4 battery before it drops to less than 50% capacity will greatly increase the number of charge cycles before there's a noticeable capacity drop. Letting the battery nearly completely discharge will greatly reduce the number of charge cycles, and therefore greatly reduce the time before battery replacement will be necessary. (Table 2)
Inductive (wireless) charging, while convenient, generates extra heat that will over time reduce the recoverable capacity of the battery. (Table 3)
Having read this article, I am curious about the charging characteristics of the Nexus 4 and which, if any, charging variables we can control as users to maximize battery longevity.
When I first get a new smartphone I try to do a handful of full cycle charges before doing any partial charges. Your battery is still "new" and in the "break in" period. Many users that were the first to get theirs have reported their battery life as getting better. Of course a lot to do with battery are things like your data usage and what you have syncing.
RealiZms said:
When I first get a new smartphone I try to do a handful of full cycle charges before doing any partial charges. Your battery is still "new" and in the "break in" period. Many users that were the first to get theirs have reported their battery life as getting better. Of course a lot to do with battery are things like your data usage and what you have syncing.
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Thanks, but I will again clarify that that I created this thread to discuss maximizing the Nexus 4 battery's long-term life and recoverable capacity, not maximizing run-down time in the short-term. That is already being discussed extensively in the great battery impression thread.
I have had a lot of experience with LiIon batteries over the years and I can tell you that the enemy of them is both inactivity and deep discharge use.
Use your phone as you normally would, but avoid frequent deep discharges. Don't be afraid about the number of charge cycles. Frequent charges are better than deep discharge cycles.
These pups have been designed to be used the way most folks use frequently used rechargeable devices. Pop it on the charger when you can, even if you know it won't be there long enough to be topped off. The more frequent and varied activity the better.
I'll add that I do not currently see an LG BL-T5 Nexus 4 replacement battery sold anywhere.
FYI - The Nexus 4 uses an 800 cycle battery as well so makes it even less of a thing to worry about. My SGS2 still gives me good battery life and it's more than 1yr old already, and i think that is a 300 cycle battery. Remember also that at that 800 cycle mark the battery should still have 80% of it's original capacity. 800 cycles is more than 2yrs of constant use/charge every night and for people that don't so much that could put you in the 3yr-4yr range. If you still have this phone 4yrs from now, i think you wont need to complain if it "only" has 80% of it's original charge.
Hi
borntochill said:
I've been following the great battery impression thread, which discusses ways to tweak the Nexus 4 settings, ROMs, and so forth for maximum run time between charging. This thread focuses on a different battery concern.
The Nexus 4 lithium polymer battery is sealed, and as far as I know, there are still several unknowns about replacing it. We've seen a tear-down showing how to remove the battery. However, as of now, few users have attempted it and there's not a consensus about how easy or difficult it is to do. Questions include:
Even with the correct tools, are the tabs that secure the Nexus 4's back prone to breakage, potentially leaving the case borked?
Is the battery difficult to extricate from its compartment?
Will it a high quality replacement battery become available inexpensively on eBay and elsewhere, or is it this battery, which was not designed to be user-replaceable, too much of an oddball for that to happen meaning that a replacement battery will be expensive and hard to find?
That said, the ease (or lack thereof) of replacing the Nexus 4's battery isn't what I've come here to discuss.
Given the unknowns about battery replacement, my concern is to how to maximize the Nexus 4 battery charge cycles and reduce the capacity drop of the battery over time. It could be bad if after just a year, the Nexus 4's capacity is already noticeably dropping. Not possible? I'm not so sure. Based on what I've read, it may depend upon how we handle charging.
This article at "Battery University" discusses the discharge characteristics of Lithium batteries, and it is my understanding that Lithium Polymer batteries, like the one in the Nexus 4 mirror these characteristics.
My takeaway from the article is:
Charging the Nexus 4 battery before it drops to less than 50% capacity will greatly increase the number of charge cycles before there's a noticeable capacity drop. Letting the battery nearly completely discharge will greatly reduce the number of charge cycles, and therefore greatly reduce the time before battery replacement will be necessary. (Table 2)
Inductive (wireless) charging, while convenient, generates extra heat that will over time reduce the recoverable capacity of the battery. (Table 3)
Having read this article, I am curious about the charging characteristics of the Nexus 4 and which, if any, charging variables we can control as users to maximize battery longevity.
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There is little point in worrying about charging before it's discharged to 50% and/or not charging to maximum. Yes it increases the number of cycles, but is reducing runtime between those cycles, so you have to charge it twice as often using up the extra cycles gained, so overall it tends to even out.
The longevity argument for only partial discharges really only applies at the time of design and specification where the manufacturer can spec a larger battery and sacrifice some of the capacity (by only charging say from 30 to 70%) to get extra charge cycles. Clearly with a mobile phone this isn't desirable to do, as we crave all the the runtime we can get in the smallest form factor possible.
Regards
Phil
shotta35 said:
FYI - The Nexus 4 uses an 800 cycle battery as well so makes it even less of a thing to worry about. My SGS2 still gives me good battery life and it's more than 1yr old already, and i think that is a 300 cycle battery. Remember also that at that 800 cycle mark the battery should still have 80% of it's original capacity. 800 cycles is more than 2yrs of constant use/charge every night and for people that don't so much that could put you in the 3yr-4yr range. If you still have this phone 4yrs from now, i think you wont need to complain if it "only" has 80% of it's original charge.
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Is the "800 cycle" rating is based on real world usage, or a set of idealized laboratory conditions that few users will actually meet? Many Nexus 4 forum users are reporting running down their batteries to a discharge depth exceeding 90% on a daily basis before recharging. This will dramatically reduce their battery's number of charge cycles. The "800 cycle" rating is only useful if we know the conditions upon which it was tested.
PhilipL said:
Hi
There is little point in worrying about charging before it's discharged to 50% and/or not charging to maximum. Yes it increases the number of cycles, but is reducing runtime between those cycles, so you have to charge it twice as often using up the extra cycles gained, so overall it tends to even out.
The longevity argument for only partial discharges really only applies at the time of design and specification where the manufacturer can spec a larger battery and sacrifice some of the capacity (by only charging say from 30 to 70%) to get extra charge cycles. Clearly with a mobile phone this isn't desirable to do, as we crave all the the runtime we can get in the smallest form factor possible.
Regards
Phil
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Point taken, although it looks to me like the relationship between discharge depth and maximum number of charge cycles is not linear. From the way I read it, frequent deep discharging can markedly impact battery longevity which is why I'm skeptical of the 800 cycle figure. Given that many Nexus 4 users are currently reporting an inability to make it through a full day without completely draining their battery, those particular users are bound to have shortened battery longevity unless they charge at least twice/day.
Hi
borntochill said:
Point taken, although it looks to me like the relationship between discharge depth and maximum number of charge cycles is not linear. From the way I read it, frequent deep discharging can markedly impact battery longevity which is why I'm skeptical of the 800 cycle figure. Given that many Nexus 4 users are currently reporting an inability to make it through a full day without completely draining their battery, those particular users are bound to have shortened battery longevity unless they charge at least twice/day.
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Yes it isn't linear, but the advantages are also outweighed by the negatives, such as having to plug it in more often to charge, and if people are struggling to get through the day now on a full charge/discharge cycle.....
The 800 cycle figure is probably about right for chemistry used in the LG Nexus, and most of us will have replaced our phone in a couple of years anyway long before we start to notice the lowered battery life.
The other thing with a lithium batteries is they are like perishable foods, even if we don't use them much, after a few years the capacity has diminished anyway. So even if we only charged the phone twice in two years, the third charge capacity would probably not be that much different to having charged it every day for two years.
So we shouldn't worry about the battery, the best thing we can do is use it as much as possible as it is going to degrade anyway, and we will see little benefit from treating it with kit gloves.
The above also assumes the battery can never be replaced. It certainly is replaceable by the manufacturer or a repair centre, and more than likely most of us could manage a replacement ourselves.
Regards
Phil
One very important thing to realize is that these 500/800 or whatever hundred cycles it's talking about is not how many times it can be charged, period.
It's not like after the 500th or 800th charge, this battery can never be powered on again.
Read the article closely:
" the number of discharge/charge cycles Li-ion can deliver at various DoD levels before the battery capacity drops to 70 percent."
Also, if you lower the voltage of the charge, it seems battery long term life greatly increases:
"Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery."
Hi
borntochill said:
Is the "800 cycle" rating is based on real world usage, or a set of idealized laboratory conditions that few users will actually meet? Many Nexus 4 forum users are reporting running down their batteries to a discharge depth exceeding 90% on a daily basis before recharging. This will dramatically reduce their battery's number of charge cycles. The "800 cycle" rating is only useful if we know the conditions upon which it was tested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When a lithium battery is fully discharged, it isn't actually completely discharged. LG like other manufacturers will have programmed a level that shows 0% on the phone before it shuts down, but in reality this might still leave 10% or 20% or 2% capacity in reserve, we don't know the figure, but presumably LG have set both full and empty charge points to ensure we see around 800 cycles.
Regards
Phil
---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------
Hi
ksc6000 said:
Also, if you lower the voltage of the charge, it seems battery long term life greatly increases:
"Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400–4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you get more cycles, but because you have a battery with reduced capacity, you are having to charge it more. Overall the benefit isn't as great as the numbers make it. If LG wanted to give us 1600 cycles they could lower the charge voltages, but then the battery capacity would have to be advertised at around 1050mAh, meaning it lasts half the time it does now, and will need charging around twice as often.
For a mobile phone with a typical 2 year life span, the priority is to maximum the time between charges while ensuring the battery lasts the typical 2 years of most peoples phone contracts. It isn't a co-incidence that 800 charges works out as a bit over 2 years if you charge every day.
We don't need to worry about the battery, just enjoy using the phone. Also the battery doesn't just stop working at 800 cycles either, it just doesn't hold as much charge, but capacity is lost anyway over time regardless if you use it or not as lithium batteries start to age the moment they are made.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
For a mobile phone with a typical 2 year life span, the priority is to maximum the time between charges while ensuring the battery lasts the typical 2 years of most peoples phone contracts. It isn't a co-incidence that 800 charges works out as a bit over 2 years if you charge every day.
We don't need to worry about the battery, just enjoy using the phone.
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Click to collapse
A lot of assumptions there, Phil.
My "priorities" and LG's differ. 2 years from now, some will replace their Nexus 4 with whatever shiny new phone comes along that offers holographic video projection chat and does double duty as a sex robot. However, I will happily trudge on with my Nexus 4 for between 3 to 5 years which is how long I typically own a phone before replacement. I don't need bleeding edge, especially if the bleeding edge is a menstruating sex robot phone. Just sayin'.
We don't know if the Nexus 4 battery replacement will turn out to be either very costly and/or difficult. For those of us who don't plan to toss our Nexus 4 into a landfill two years from now, it pays to know what measures we can take to prolong battery longevity.
'Maximizing Nexus 4 battery'
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'Menstruating sex robot'
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Hmmmm....how did that happen...
I don't know if we will really know how good the battery longevity is in this thing until the device is a year old or more. Lithium polymer technology varies a lot. There have been a lot of advances with this tech in the last few years and some companies claim to have developed manufacturing techniques that allow THOUSANDS of charge before noticeable drops in batty capacity. Other technologies developed include the tech Apple uses and advertised in its MacBook line a few years ago that claimed longer battery life and very fast charging compared to Lithium Ion batteries. It all varies. LG claims to have some special tech baked into this battery that allows it to charge to a higher voltage compared to batteries of similar size, but I don't know how long its life is rated at.
666fff said:
'Maximizing Nexus 4 battery'
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'Menstruating sex robot'
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Hmmmm....how did that happen...
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You apparently haven't seen the leaked mock-up of the Nexus 6.
borntochill said:
You apparently haven't seen the leaked mock-up of the Nexus 6.
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I would consider an early upgrade for a menstruating Daryl Hannah any day
Hey guys, so my battery is getting really bad nowadays, but can i restore it back to original capacity by putting it in a freezer?
http://www.greenbatteries.com/batterymyths.html#freezer
Putting batteries in the freezer or refrigerator doesn't necessarily prolong their life
Alkaline batteries stored at "room temperature" self discharge at a rate of less than two percent per year. So normally refrigerating or freezing them will only help maintain their charge by a tiny amount. Hardly worth the effort of chilling them. However, if alkaline batteries are stored at higher temperatures they will start to lose capacity much quicker. At 85 degrees F they only lose about 5% per year, but at 100 degrees they lose 25% per year. So if you live in a very hot climate or are storing your batteries in a very hot location, it may be worthwhile for you to store your alkaline batteries in a refrigerator instead.
NiMH and NiCd batteries self discharge at a MUCH faster rate than alkaline batteries. In fact, at "room temperature" (about 70 degrees F) NiMH and NiCD batteries will self discharge a few percent PER DAY. Storing them at lower temperatures will slow their self discharge rate dramatically. NiMH batteries stored at freezing will retain over 90% of their charge for full month. So it might make sense to store them in a freezer. If you do, it's best to bring them back to room temperature before using them. Even if you don't freeze your NiMH batteries after charging them, you should store them in a cool place to minimize their self discharge.
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If the battery has some curves...
were it was FLAT, then you must buy a new one... (pillow shaped)
Nope, its still flat. so im better off buying a new battery?
:good::good::good::good::good::good::good:
Most cell phone batteries are Lithium Ion now.
Although constant charging cannot hurt, it looks like you may want to periodically run the battery all the way down so the digital circuits can correctly calibrate:
Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate.
As for battery life, temperature is apparently a factor -- the hotter the environment, the more capacity loss over time. And storing the battery at 100% charge is actually unhealthy for Lithium Ion batteries!
Avoid frequent full discharges because this puts additional strain on the battery. Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory. (In this respect, lithium-ion differs from nickel-based batteries.) Short battery life in a laptop is mainly cause by heat rather than charge / discharge patterns.
Batteries with fuel gauge (laptops) should be calibrated by applying a deliberate full discharge once every 30 charges. Running the pack down in the equipment does this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate and in some cases cut off the device prematurely.
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
Consider removing the battery from a laptop when running on fixed power. (Some laptop manufacturers are concerned about dust and moisture accumulating inside the battery casing.)
Avoid purchasing spare lithium-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing dates. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.
If you have a spare lithium-ion battery, use one to the fullest and keep the other cool by placing it in the refrigerator. Do not freeze the battery. For best results, store the battery at 40% state-of-charge.