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My brand spanking new first ever Orange Kaiser arrived at 6.30pm, I swiftly unboxed and booted to check the battery status (59%), I straight way contacted Orange who transferred my number to my new SIM card (they warned it could take 24hrs, it actually took a couple of minutes) and then immediately ran hard SPL, Pof’s first, no luck, then Jocky’s, which worked.
I then ran the IMIE check software and fired off the resulting file (and my I.D), who responded in 20 minutes with the unlock code (time was about 7pmish), whereupon I immediately installed Dutty’s 6.1 most recent ROM, which worked a treat.
Total time from box arriving on doorstep, to new OS installed, under an hour. Not bad for a relative newbie I thought.
Is this a record?
Ps, not a single post requesting info, i read the forums and Wiki till my eyeballs ached.
i hope you didnt pay to have your phone sim-unlocked......
theres a prog floating around on here (and im sure its ok the WIKI) that would have done it for free...
just so you know, im on orange UK aswell. 750mins unlimited texts and 250MB data bundle for £20 a month
billington.mark said:
i hope you didnt pay to have your phone sim-unlocked......
theres a prog floating around on here (and im sure its ok the WIKI) that would have done it for free...
just so you know, im on orange UK aswell. 750mins unlimited texts and 250MB data bundle for £20 a month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was aware of the free unlocking software and i'm sure it's worked for lots of people but given my Orange ROM was not a 6.1 radio i'd be having to use Jocky's unlocking software (unless i am mistaken) which given the steps and complexity of using this i decided on balance it was £20 well spent, although its really down to personal choise i suppose.
Morning sherbert66 & billington.mark, have been lurking several times and chickened out of replacing the Orange ROM plus not convinced I fully understand the acronyms nor the steps. I've tried the wikis found on google but am still not sure enough to take the plunge - don't know why as have been mucking up PCs for years. Anyway, if you don't mind can you point me to the info that is relevant for getting a new and decent ROM onto my Orange supplied TyTn (have downloaded Hard-SPL V2 and KaiserUnlimited)... thx
billington.mark said:
i hope you didnt pay to have your phone sim-unlocked......
theres a prog floating around on here (and im sure its ok the WIKI) that would have done it for free...
just so you know, im on orange UK aswell. 750mins unlimited texts and 250MB data bundle for £20 a month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats a good deal I have to say! I get 750mins and free texts, but my data bundle is Evening and weekends unlimited. The only alternative they gave me on data was £1 per day of use unlimited. So either cost you an extra £30 or nothing depending on how you use it.
billington.mark said:
i hope you didnt pay to have your phone sim-unlocked......
theres a prog floating around on here (and im sure its ok the WIKI) that would have done it for free...
just so you know, im on orange UK aswell. 750mins unlimited texts and 250MB data bundle for £20 a month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a good deal with the 250mb, what plan is that?
Is everyone using dutty's ROM? as far as i've read the's no issues with anything is there?
lasthours said:
Morning sherbert66 & billington.mark, have been lurking several times and chickened out of replacing the Orange ROM plus not convinced I fully understand the acronyms nor the steps. I've tried the wikis found on google but am still not sure enough to take the plunge - don't know why as have been mucking up PCs for years. Anyway, if you don't mind can you point me to the info that is relevant for getting a new and decent ROM onto my Orange supplied TyTn (have downloaded Hard-SPL V2 and KaiserUnlimited)... thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Firstly you need to hard SPL to allow you to upgrade your phone to the cooked ROM's.
Run Jocky's hard SPL:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=354061
Once this is done then you must SIM unlock the phone, if you do not then and you try to upgrade to 6.1 (and i presume you do) then you will find the phone will SIM lock you out after you have upgraded it.
Use either Jocky's SIM unlock (free):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361039
or IMIE unlock (£20):
http://www.imei-check.co.uk/kaiser-unlock.php
Then cherry pick a ROM from the Wiki:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
or mosey on over to the ROM development forum to see what rOM's are just out. Hard SPL and SIM unlocking are once only deals, after these steps are complete you can change ROM's as often as you like, it becomes a bit addictive after a while!
please do read the Wiki as this is a valuable resource, the instructions above are just a brief summery of what worked for me, its important you read up on each step, everything you need to know is there, including what to do if things go amiss, which radio's are best and which to avoid and so on. Like i say, i spent a bit of time researching it, time well spent.
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser#ROMx20.Upgrading
Free Kaiser from Orange
Forgot to say, my Kaiser was free from Orange on a £25 tarrif ( 200 mins, 100 texts, data not included) as an upgrade, originally when i phoned i was told it would be £129.99, i then politely asked for my PAC number as i would be moving networks to get it for free (a white lie), i was then immediatly transferred to customer retention where the free offer kicked in. 18 month contract but still, not bad.
timstephens11 said:
That is a good deal with the 250mb, what plan is that?
Is everyone using dutty's ROM? as far as i've read the's no issues with anything is there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dutty's ROM's are superb, fast and reliable and very highly spec'd. Some poeple prefer different aspect of the different ROM's but for a great all rounder you can't go wrong with a Dutty, can't recommend it highly enough.
Sherbet66 said:
Forgot to say, my Kaiser was free from Orange on a £25 tarrif ( 200 mins, 100 texts, data not included) as an upgrade, originally when i phoned i was told it would be £129.99, i then politely asked for my PAC number as i would be moving networks to get it for free (a white lie), i was then immediatly transferred to customer retention where the free offer kicked in. 18 month contract but still, not bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do exactly the same, got mine free with a similar price plan, going to go for the unlimited data bundle. I already know i'll be doing the same on my other phone when the touch diamond comes out!
Thanks for the recomendation for dutty's rom, just got to find the time to sit down and do it. Got to wait til she's out for a good day and night to leave me time to play!
Must get out more...
Racoon 35
Hi Guys,
I got my Kaiser / Tytn 2 on Orange last September .. probably about a week after it came out
Racoon 35 - £35/month on 18 month contract - this gave 700 across any network minutes, plus 100 text (not a big text guy) .. plus unlimited landline numbers starting 01 or 02.
On the £35 contract, the Tytn2 was £89.99 but the package provided cashback on an old phone ... I got £150 c/b on an old nail of a Nokia 3110 ... cashback works on airtime credit so I've bought the phone with four months free use.
Because I wasn't with Orange previously, I couldn't try the 'I'm leaving you ploy' to get it for free ..
They were/are also providing unlimited data access at evenings and weekends for two months.
Negatives .. Watch out for the data after two months free use .. the small print automatically puts you on a £5 a month data tariff if you don't opt out (the same with the traffic TV service too).
I've unlocked it (for free) and I'm on my third ROM ... waiting to have the new official ROM cooked before I have another OS
Nice to see more Orange users her
Anyone on dutty's apr 29 with an orange radio? If not, any issues with the .68 latest radio on orange? I know what orange are like, i'm reluctant to change the radio rom so i get the best signal etc. but i want to sim unlock when i flash to dutty's. i'm on 1.27.14.32 shipped radio as it is and think i read it was a good one, maybe i want everything too perfect!
I don't want to go off topic too much. But I too am an Orange user who got what they wanted after a bit of persuasion. I got it on the £30 a month package, but at £20 for the first 9 months and £25 thereafter. With doubling the minutes from 100 to 200 and keeping it at unlimited texts (I can text about 600 times in a month easy). I knew they really didnt want to lose me when they decided to give me the £129.99 phone for free.
Saving me about £100-150 in total on any other deals I found around.
I have left it at the standard ROM and really don't know if to start messing about with it yet. I don't want to risk ruining it just yet. But then I am really curious on what these upgrades are like.
I'm too chicken.... It all seems like too many steps! Really don't want to mess it up... I don't want to change the radio or unlock, but would have tried just a new O/S rom from Dutty, but too chicken!
LOL
SiJ2000 said:
I'm too chicken.... It all seems like too many steps! Really don't want to mess it up... I don't want to change the radio or unlock, but would have tried just a new O/S rom from Dutty, but too chicken!
LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont fear the orange employee is here lol.
As long as you follow the instructions in the wiki you will have absolute 0% issues when flashing your ROM
As for radios any is compatible as long as you use wm6.1 radio with 6.1 ROM etc (common sense really)
If you are worried about the kaiser developing a fault then if you take a look at the search tool at the top of the page it can magically find the original orange supplied radio and ROM for you if you need to return it.
Dont worry as long as you read properly you will have no worries with modding the h/set
And finally hello to all the n00bs just remember use the search and help as much as you can and you will find this forum invaluable
Ok I have been enjoying MobiTv for over a year now due to a file that I put in the startup folder to reset the 3 day trial . But about 3 weeks ago I got a message saying your 3 day trial is over to buy Mobitv hit the "Buy" button on the bottom of the screen. So I removed and reinstalled the program and still the same message. Is there a fix for this or is the free ride over. To tell you the truth I might have used it 2 hours in the year. With the graphics performance of my Kaiser I would not even consider buying this but if anyone out there knows of a work around I would love to hear it.
A few weeks ago I read in the hacking and developing forum about MobiTv contacting some sites threatening to remove all the info about hacking their software. I guess xda and other sites complied. I used it only once for about 3 minutes.
I wish there would be something similar because some of us don't live in USA to be able to buy this feature.
I use it all the time, its works fantastic for me when i have a solid 3g connection. Who can resist watching meercat manor when youve got 3 or 4 hours drive ahead of you.
Yea know them *****ing about pep hacking the software is retarded, i did pay for one month. But after resetting my tilt a few times + new roms etc. i seem to have hacked it without trying. hahahah
Learn to write an app, or quite *****ing eh?
To fix this problem, you first need to contact MobiTV and then second, bust out your credit card and pay for something.
If you need free then use orb. Geez
MobiTV is my favorite app and use it about 30 minutes a day collectively to kill time. I've had it for the past six months and been working flawless. I also pay $10/month for it, rather than pay $15/month for the att branded one. Now with the some the more recent cooked Kaiser (Diamond) roms, the video quality is significantly better and less grainy.They (MobiTV also plan to add more channels as well.
The reason why the re-setter doesn't in the cracked version doesn't work any more because they (mobiTV) upgraded the software. So for the Kaiser users, try using a cook (diamond) rom and the updated version MobiTV for 3 days. You'll notice the difference.
edbutler said:
Ok I have been enjoying MobiTv for over a year now due to a file that I put in the startup folder to reset the 3 day trial . But about 3 weeks ago I got a message saying your 3 day trial is over to buy Mobitv hit the "Buy" button on the bottom of the screen. So I removed and reinstalled the program and still the same message. Is there a fix for this or is the free ride over. To tell you the truth I might have used it 2 hours in the year. With the graphics performance of my Kaiser I would not even consider buying this but if anyone out there knows of a work around I would love to hear it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are actually complaining because something you are stealing isn't working correctly? Wow.
Thanks for all the input guys!
I think I didn't explain myself or maybe I did. I don't believe in using something for nothing and I in no way advocate warez or any type of illegal software use. I am willing to pay for a program if it is worth it. MobiTV is not worth $15.00 a month like I said if the Graphics was working on my tilt and if the service was priced in line with what it offers I would be happy to pay. I already Pay AT&T $165.00 a month for 3 phones, 2 pda plans and I did sign up for this when I first got my Hearms but then quickly found that on top of the PDA plan for the ability to get the internet and MobiTV I would need to pay $15.00 a month for MobiTV which I did then found out that I had to pay $9.99 for HBO tv via MobiTV so I could watch the Sopranos which was the whole reason I went for the MobiTV in the first place I was a Sopranos fan, then I find out that it was an extra $10.00 for XM radio. So it seemed to me that it was a rip off then I saw a post for someone here on our forum about the Trial reseter and I used it and it worked. But I could not get HBO so I never used it much as stated I maybe used it 2 or 3 hours tops. My question was did they change something ,I think I said "was the free ride over" and that was answered in the third reply that the software had been upgraded. So thanks for all your help/ Thank you for the quick judgment but remember I didn't write this software that enabled me to get an extended Trial for MobiTV ,I found it posted here on XDA.
Ed...
I'm sure that post made you feel better. Orb is still free and you provide the content.
edbutler said:
Thank you for the quick judgment but remember I didn't write this software that enabled me to get an extended Trial for MobiTV ,I found it posted here on XDA.
Ed...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome. So since the guy who breaks the car window to steal the overpriced radio didn't make the crow bar, it's OK for him to do it?
holmanm said:
Your welcome. So since the guy who breaks the car window to steal the overpriced radio didn't make the crow bar, it's OK for him to do it?
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Click to collapse
LMAO, I didn't make the bullet or the gun either.
Okay, so I have an AT&T N1. I've been in Mexico for the last half of last week. I got my N1 just over two weeks ago. For some insane reason, according to AT&T's website, I've used 2260 mb of data since 5/24. I don't stream movies to my phone (was using iPhone previously), don't download movies to them, nothing like that.
Does this sound even remotely right? It seems so far out in left field for me that I'm really confused as to what's going on. Anyone else have similar usage?
I was looking at my data usage and found it has increased dramatically with my N1. I am on ATT and noticed on a daily basis around 1:00 a.m. I send anywhere from 3.6 - 8.1 megabytes... I don't know what it is or where it goes.
any ideas?
online142154 said:
I was looking at my data usage and found it has increased dramatically with my N1. I am on ATT and noticed on a daily basis around 1:00 a.m. I send anywhere from 3.6 - 8.1 megabytes... I don't know what it is or where it goes.
any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wanna say before my N1 I was hovering around 700mb monthly. After, like I said, I'm up to 2260. I was using Google Listen to download over 3G, but there's no way it grabbed enough podcasts over 3G to account for this increase.
tjsimmons said:
I wanna say before my N1 I was hovering around 700mb monthly. After, like I said, I'm up to 2260. I was using Google Listen to download over 3G, but there's no way it grabbed enough podcasts over 3G to account for this increase.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you sure about that? because i use listen religiously, and guess what, it downloads ALL your subscriptions automatically. go into listen and check all your subsciptions and see if each episode has the size underneath it. if it does, it was downloaded to your device.
this happens to me all the time.
I have my Nexus One for two weeks now, too. In that time, my Nexus One has received approx. 200 MB and sent 10 MB, mostly via WLAN.
To get an overview yourself, go to the dialer and enter *#*#4636#*#* (*#*#INFO#*#*) as described in another thread on this forum. An activity called "Testing" will appear. Select "Battery history". Select "Network usage" from the first drop-down selector, and "Total in all time" from the second one.
A button list will appear with all applications that have contributed to your traffic. Blue is received bytes, red is sent bytes. Just tap the button to get the details.
You might use this data to compare it to the information you got from the provider.
Eek, you used 2 gigs of data internationally?
RIP OP
JCopernicus said:
Eek, you used 2 gigs of data internationally?
RIP OP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a problem alright.
OP, double check what is being synced and how often. If you are traveling internationally, TURN DATA OFF and leech off of wifi where you can.
I've been running around 500mb/month tops since I got my N1. I really don't stream much, and I use wifi instead of 3g as much as possible to save battery. I am just guessing that most of my data use is for the GPS Nav, which I have used occasionally and never on a long trip. I haven't really been worried about data use, since I have an unlimited plan, but I'll definitely remember this for next time I leave the States.
I used 24 GB's last month, but I was also doing a lot of tethering. 2 GB can easily be done in a couple of days depending on what you do...
hotweiss said:
I used 24 GB's last month, but I was also doing a lot of tethering. 2 GB can easily be done in a couple of days depending on what you do...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Did 19 here.
online142154 said:
noticed on a daily basis around 1:00 a.m. I send anywhere from 3.6 - 8.1 megabytes... I don't know what it is or where it goes. any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know for sure, but I have a pretty good idea of what it is. Usage data. Everything you touched, where you touched it, how long you touched it... wow that sounds dirty.
haha, anyway. Usage data. Everything you did on the phone. Every button that was pressed, how many milliseconds you spent doing this or that. How long you spent reading something and what angle the phone was at during that time. Anything and everything they can track, gathered up and sent back to be processed.
What do they do with all that data? I don't know which is more important to them, but they'll use it to make the phone and UI better. Make it smoother and find out what features people do and don't use. They are also going to look at what methods would be best to send advertising to you and sell more AdWords to companies.
JCopernicus said:
Eek, you used 2 gigs of data internationally?
RIP OP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no no no. I'm much smarter than that. My guess would be the podcasts, I suppose, but I just don't remember getting THAT many. It just shocked me to see such a high number when I expected less (I'm grandfathered in to the unlimited data, but was curious anyways).
I use about 2Gb a month when I do not tether. It goes up from there depending on how much I tether but it rarely goes above 10-11 Gb.
I am also going to be grandfathered into the unlimited data plan and was wondering if some of you who use 10+ GB a month are on AT&T? Any complaints from them about using so much data?
averaging around 4-6gb last few months, some tethering for work and what not. Mainly from playing with new roms and seeing what I like.
clickwir said:
I don't know for sure, but I have a pretty good idea of what it is. Usage data. Everything you touched, where you touched it, how long you touched it... wow that sounds dirty.
haha, anyway. Usage data. Everything you did on the phone. Every button that was pressed, how many milliseconds you spent doing this or that. How long you spent reading something and what angle the phone was at during that time. Anything and everything they can track, gathered up and sent back to be processed.
What do they do with all that data? I don't know which is more important to them, but they'll use it to make the phone and UI better. Make it smoother and find out what features people do and don't use. They are also going to look at what methods would be best to send advertising to you and sell more AdWords to companies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if that is what process 1013 is? I used the *#*#INFO*#*# and could see all the processes and bytes (amazing how much data passes doing a speed test). I could drill in on all of the processes except for 1013 .. it crashed every time and I couldn't find any info on what that process is.
I've been using between 500MB and 1GB since I got the N1 in January. Only one month so far did I actually got over 1GB. Probably most of that is from music streaming and navigation in the car. I'm curious to see how that usage changes when I get my wifi tethering
online142154 said:
I wonder if that is what process 1013 is? I used the *#*#INFO*#*# and could see all the processes and bytes (amazing how much data passes doing a speed test). I could drill in on all of the processes except for 1013 .. it crashed every time and I couldn't find any info on what that process is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that's the total. Mine was 10075 and crashed as well. I thought I was a pretty heavy user with around 400MB a month
So far for this month i've used 1.543gigs
usually around 2-3gigs
Sorry for the vague title, but I don't know how to explain this in a short way.
I got my bill from Sprint today, and it was around $100 more than it should have been. I'm on the Everything Plus Referral plan, which of course includes Any Mobile, Anytime and includes Roaming. However, this bill is showing that even the calls to a friend on Sprint as Off Network(AM on bill). It also shows this to calls I made to people on Verizion. So they ended up charging me for 225 additional minutes, hence the extra $101.25. I'm currently running DamageControl v2.08.1. I haven't updated my PRL yet, so it's still 60664, but I don't think that should make a difference, considering I'm in a very small town and we don't get many new towers or carriers.
Sprint Tech Support is calling it a system glitch, and crediting the money back to me. They also refreshed my phone data.
I only rooted my phone maybe a month ago, so I'm still a newbie at this. So is there any way that could have caused this problem? I wouldn't think so, but I'd really appreciate those smarter than me to reassure me of this.
I haven't ever heard an issue like this before. I live in a crappy coverage area and haven't had any such issues since rooting my phone. It sounds like Sprint may be right calling it a system glitch, but I would keep an eye on your minute use online during this billing cycle just to be sure that it is fixed.
Thanks. I also forgot to mention that my phone has never said I was roaming, and I have every precaution in place - custom ringtone, alerts when receiving a call, and before using data services.
Hmm... it may just be that I'm tired, but isn't 2.08.1 an old version of DamageControl? If that's the case, then it is based on a Droid ERIS dump. Not sure why, but something may be conflicting since it's Verizon/Sprint.
I don't think that has anything to do with it, really. I've been running either DC2.08.1 or Aloysius (which is based off DC) and haven't ever had a problem like that.
It sounds like Sprint's system was not determining what was a landline and what wasn't. Since they gave you credit I wouldn't sweat it to much, but you might look and see if when you called a certain number if sometimes it was coming up as a mobile phone and other times a landline.
mrinehart93 said:
Hmm... it may just be that I'm tired, but isn't 2.08.1 an old version of DamageControl? If that's the case, then it is based on a Droid ERIS dump. Not sure why, but something may be conflicting since it's Verizon/Sprint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong.
&RoidRage said:
It sounds like Sprint's system was not determining what was a landline and what wasn't. Since they gave you credit I wouldn't sweat it to much, but you might look and see if when you called a certain number if sometimes it was coming up as a mobile phone and other times a landline.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most likely cause.
Thanks everyone. I was just a bit paranoid since I'm new to all of this, and the glitch happened right around the time I rooted my phone and installed a custom ROM. I feel much better now, as you guys know much more than I do about all of this.
EDIT: Ugh, Sprint just called a bit ago, and they're trying to tell me that I'm roaming like 90% of the time. Now, I have my phone set to Sprint Only, roaming alerts & special ringtones set, and I have NEVER even seen the roaming signal. I don't get what the problem is...is my phone just screwed up? I cannot afford an extra $100 on my bill, for something that is NOT my fault, and they're trying to tell me that they can't do anything because it's just my word saying that I'm not roaming.
*sigh* Looks like I'll have to un-root my phone so they can take it back and send me another.
im gonna take my thrill back today and get a new one! I am having trouble with the battery as many people are but I dont know if it is worse than others. I unhooked it a few minutes ago and it went from 99 percent down to 90 in about 3-4 minutes and down to 80 in another 10 minutes and im not even sure what is running in the background because I thought I had an app killer installed. anyway the other problem is that I cannot get an internet connection at all unless I am on wifi. I have unlimited data and should be able to use programs like facebook even at the university but I cannot. Does anyone think I am doing the right thing by returning the phone? sorry about the long rant
Sounds like you have a bad battery. When I first got my Nexus S I had the same problem replaced that battery through att and it has been fine ever since. Also I have noticed that some task killers cant remember witch ones in specific hurt battery life. I would take it back for a new one may as well replace the whole device if you can.
lordshane said:
im gonna take my thrill back today and get a new one! I am having trouble with the battery as many people are but I dont know if it is worse than others. I unhooked it a few minutes ago and it went from 99 percent down to 90 in about 3-4 minutes and down to 80 in another 10 minutes and im not even sure what is running in the background because I thought I had an app killer installed. anyway the other problem is that I cannot get an internet connection at all unless I am on wifi. I have unlimited data and should be able to use programs like facebook even at the university but I cannot. Does anyone think I am doing the right thing by returning the phone? sorry about the long rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The data thing definitely sounds like a bug. The battery on the other hand is normal on some new Thrills. After a week or so it should settle in and battery life gets better over time.
Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk
Yeah, if you first got the phone it takes a few cycles before battery starts to improve. But it seems pretty bad, i would return it since you have the oppurtunity.
Sent from my LG-P925 using xda premium
Thank you for the replies, I have had this phone for about 3 weeks and I keep it plugged in at night through usb but I also have to connect it for a few hours in the daytime as well. I havent had a chance to return it but I may do so today although the wifi issue seems to be working now. maybe the At&t Network was down?
lordshane said:
Thank you for the replies, I have had this phone for about 3 weeks and I keep it plugged in at night through usb but I also have to connect it for a few hours in the daytime as well. I havent had a chance to return it but I may do so today although the wifi issue seems to be working now. maybe the At&t Network was down?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A note on the battery issue? What's the signal strength like where you live? The data signal in my house is so bad that if I forget to turn wifi on after getting home from work my battery will drain close to 40% over night. My wife's Captivate does the same thing. If the signal is weak the phone will constantly poll for a stronger signal.
All that aside I would definitely still take advantage and seek a replacement while its free. If you still have issues atleadt you'll know its something correctable and not the phone.
Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk