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Touch Diamond or Touch Pro? Which one will you get?

By accident I stumbled upon the HTC Diamond after a friend of mine asked me if I can buy it cheaper in the US (compared to Germany)...
I was using a PocketPC in the past but stopped because I did not want to carry a PPC and a cell phone with me all the time. And at that point, windows mobile based phones where just not very appealing...
Well, that changed now after getting back and checking the current PPC market which mainly consists of PPC/phone solutions now. Is the PPC as a stand-alone PDA dead? I guess so...
Luckily I stumbled upon the HTC Touch Diamond on the day HTC announced the Touch Pro. So despite most of you all out there, I was not caught in the HTC Touch Diamond Hype before you completely knew about the HTC Touch Pro.
So for me, I will most likely wait until the Touch Pro is released. Mainly because of: Higher Battery Capacity, microSDHC slot, more RAM/ROM, Camera with Flash and keyboard... (well, basically all the differences)
One thing I was really wondering about: The HTC Touch Diamond/Pro are 3G phones. So it is possible to stay connected to the Internet 24/7. You can receive your emails now anytime and anywhere (even better with push-email or an exchange server). So managing your emails on-the-go is not a problem at all. Therefore it is great to have a hardware keyboard with the phone, like with the pro, right?
Or is a hardware keyboard not that great? I have no experiences with that... What are yours? What are your opinions about having a hardware keyboard or not? Is the larger size of the pro to much of a sacrifice to get all the goodies like keyboard, more battery power, and memory card slot?
I am wondering how much of an impact it has if the phone is just 7mm thicker and heavier but the width and length remains the same. Opinions... what are your priorities?

Touch Pro............

I'll try to hold myself and wait for the Touch Pro. It even has a TV-out for Christ sake... Don't get me wrong, the Diamond is a stunning device, but if I'll buy a new smartphone (now I have a Touch Enchanced) it will be the Touch Pro. Plus, while the Diamond design is ... unique, it's not very practical, and one shouldn't be concerned about the shape of a phone in the first place.

Diamond for me, I now have a E-ten M700 and the keyboard i don't use alot.
The more things on the device the more things brake

I got Diamond because it's thin and pro is too thick

I've got an HTC Wizard, and I don't think it's too thick..
Don't get me wrong, it is think for a phone, but with the stuff in has in side (at least for the time it was released) it's good
The keyboard is sometimes really useful, but I guess it depends on what you're using the device for.. Sometimes you just don't want to type the stuff on the display (especially if the keys are tiny), and then the keyboard is perfect! Other times, I use the screen (because when I open the kb, the scren rotation takes 3 seconds or something like that, and at times I hate it, though it's not a problem with the HTC Touch Pro )
Anyway, I'm thinking of getting the pro, mainly because of the battery, RAM.. I could live without the keyboard, but not with a bad battery =/
Speaking about the SD card.. I'm thinking will the internal storage be faster than the internal SD card reader?

Diamond. Keyboards are not fashionable or necessary, and the other improvements (some of which are random, like TV Out) don't justify the size.
And yeah, I would guess that the internal storage would be faster than a microSD card reader.
Does anyone have any estimates on the price of the Touch Pro? They might put an end to any potential for doubt in my mind.

I think keyboard have their place. I used to use one to ssh and vnc into servers as a last resort. They also make email alot easier. Without the keyboard you end up writing small short emails which you later have to follow up with another sentance or two when you get to the PC.
But, i'm going for the diamond, simply because i dont need to respond to that much email urgently, only read it, and what i do i can manage with on screen keyboard. SSH, VNC will still work, and like i said its a last resort anyway.

Touch pro for me! i dont think the diamonds virtual keyboard is any good for even a full text message, it just dosent apeal to me. Yeah the pro is thick, but having a full keyboard and bigger battery just makes me gravatate to it much more.
and VGA screens =D

pro or x1 because of the keyboard.

Pro. Hardware keyboard. MicroSD slot. Bigger screen. And for people who say less hardware=better, what will happen if you mess up your touchscreen on your diamond? You're screwed because you have no buttons.

I like the diamond but will get none of those.
The look and specs are great, but they are not for me. Because:
- Battery. How on earth 900mAh battery comes with 528mAh CPU, VGA display, 128Mb RAM. Oh well not to mention the 3D effect. It reminds me about Nokia 8800, luxury but not useful with second bettery beside. Touch Pro is not much better. The best maybe SE Xperia X1 (HTC also).
- Plastic feel and of couse fingerprint. A bit too light for me.
- 2.8" screen a bit too small for browsing, especially VGA display.
Maybe HTC will redesign those phones and the next generation coming soon. Ideal "Diamond version" will come with bigger battery and Metal feel like X1. Will get one then

Pro!
I'd go with the Pro. I currently have a Tilt, but am looking to expand my collection. This phone seems to be the perfect fit. There is one feature that is a slight problem, screen size. My tilt has the widely used 2.8" qvga screen and gets very annoying when trying to surf the web, view documents as well as pix and vids. The Pro would be even better if it had at least a 3.5 inch screen.

I will definitely wait for the Pro. Mostly for the battery capacity and the more RAM and ROM. Then hardware QWERTY keyboard and SD card slot are another plus, even if I won't use them that much. May be even more/better accessories in the box. And yes, it's thicker than the Diamond but, hey - all that in just 18mm. Man, it's the size of my current N73.
I just hate HTC for that two months delay, they should have announced them together so I can buy Pro now. I was so desperately waiting for the new HTC device, now I have to wait even more. But then I'll have the time to see if users experience any problems with the new platform - the case with the cripled TyTNII, that I was going to buy and then read about the video problems.

playst said:
I got Diamond because it's thin and pro is too thick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here I've a tytn and it's too thick.
The keyboard is great, btw the new qwerty virtual keyboard of diamond is really nice, i can write easily and fast.

demonizator said:
But then I'll have the time to see if users experience any problems with the new platform
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Click to collapse
I am actually speculating very much on this... as you already have read on this forum, there are flaws or shortcomings with the Diamond and people already find tweaks and solutions. I am actually very confident that I will end up to have very distinc and realistic expectations once the Pro hits the market due to what I am and will be able to get to know about the Diamond on this forum!

Kraize92 said:
Pro. Hardware keyboard. MicroSD slot. Bigger screen. And for people who say less hardware=better, what will happen if you mess up your touchscreen on your diamond? You're screwed because you have no buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can understand people who just prefer keyboards, but attacking the touchscreen is very random. I have four points in response to that:
1. Touchscreens are not particularly prone to breaking. If they were, phones with touchscreens would not be popular.
2. The Touch Diamond has toughened glass protecting its screen, so that is pretty hard to break too. I'd say toughened glass is much less prone to breaking than a plasticky keyboard.
3. Even if the touchscreen does break, the device can be used without it - there are more than enough buttons.
4. The Touch Diamond is designed for use with one hand, whereas it's pretty hard to use a keyboard with just one hand. What if you messed up one of your hands?

Well, I'm getting the Diamond (not the pro). Form factor is very important to me and I have never used a hardware keyboard as well (no, don't need one too ).
Most of the issues I hear I'm 'used to' with htc phones and there are already some tweaks out to overcome those small flaws. For me I don't think the pro will fix those issues.
So in short the pro doesn't have that much more to offer to me, thus the Diamond is the device of choice

Diamond ordered here. It`s tiny and that`s important.

Call me Fl#cking crazy
I'm considering getting out of the ppc game. I went from the
Hitachi g1000
ppc6600
ppc6700
ppc6800
ppc6900
then back to the 6800
I won't say what i might be getting, if i did i'd get flamed like noo tommorow.
I was excited about the diamond and raphael. Then i saw the video blog of the diamond. Every new video that came out, made me realize that you can spot the wound peeking out from underneith the bandaid. Touch flow being the bandaid, win mo being the scabby wound, that keeps getting a little better, untill you pick at it. 8 years of nearly the same os, has left me cynical and slightly bitter. There's nothing better than showing someone my 6800 to someone to only have it stall or lock, and then having to re-set it.
Did i mention that i have been up for over 20+ hours, it's easy to nit pick when your barely lucid.

PC Pro slams Diamond Touch

What a great example of the media's double standards. They give the Diamond 2/6 stars and heavily criticize the battery life for not lasting through heavy use over a weekend. Their review of the iPhone 3G, a 5/6 star device, mentions that you'll need to charge the device every other day even with moderate use. So why is one product slammed and one product just barely criticized? It's like everyone is terrified to criticize the iPhone. Ridiculous.
However, on the speed of the Diamond, which is his primary complaint, I have to agree with him somewhat - even with the latest ROM update from a couple of weeks back, it's still too slow. Sometimes moving from element to element happens reasonably quickly, but there's still a delay where nothing happens at all. That might have been acceptable three years ago, but it's not acceptable today. Too often, it will stall out moving from one thing to the next. The funny thing is that even with that criticism, it's still the best Professional device I've used overall, at least one without a keyboard. On the stability front, even with no third party applications installed, I've had to soft reset it once after about a week of using it, which was a bit disappointing. Since then it's been two weeks without need for a reset, which is pretty good - although I'm spoiled by my T-Mobile Dash; I might have to reboot it once every three months at the worst.
On the looks front, the HTC Touch Diamond does very well. I took it to an AMD event in Austin a couple of weeks ago, and the "wow" factor it had when people looked at it was interesting - everyone loved it, until they started using it and guess what the first thing they said was? "Hmm - it's not very fast, is it?". That's an unfortunate reality about the state of the Touch Diamond right now - I'm really hoping that over the next few months, HTC's software engineers can optimize the Touch Diamond further and eliminate some of those delays.
Shockingly for any of you who know how I feel about most Apple products, I'm probably going to pick up an iPhone (likely a used one) so I can get more hands-on time with Apple's on-screen keyboard - I want to understand the subtleties of their approach vs. HTCs, because I can't seem to get any comfortable degree of accuracy with the Diamond's on-screen keyboard...I make error after error and I'm longing for a physical keyboard again.
Touch Diamond owners: how's your experience with the device so far? Do you agree with this review and rating of 2/6 stars?
(please note: I didn't write this..came from a pocket pc source)

I find my Diamond fast enough, loads of features in such a small device, GPS is very accurate and I find that outdoors it tends to average 9-10 sats which is brilliant, my Tytn 2 managed 7-8 outdoors.
Wi-Fi is fast and connects quickly, overall I would give this phone a 9 out of 10. The only thing that lets it down is the lack of storage, 8gb should have been the minimum, if the iPhone has 8gb and 16gb why the bloody hell did they only put 4gb in I don't know, it's not that the 8gb chips are expensive
Considering you can pick up 8gb micro sd cards for around £18, this was a really stupid decision.

PCPRO are a bunch of Iphone Fan Boys - I wouldn't take much notice of such a biased review

The on screen keyboard is rubbish. PCM keyboard is better but there is no decent VGA skin and I have now switched to cootek touchpal which is pretty good.
I still would prefer a hardware keyboard though so it looks like my hard earned cash may be going the way of a touch pro.
I think it is too slow and I have one with the old rom which was rubbish and a new one which is slightly better but still miles slower than my touch cruise.
I think touch flow 3d is way crapper than the interface on a touch cruise. Way too fiddly to select things. I also preferred more hardware buttons. The battery is rubbish.
On the plus side the screen is amazing and web browsing is pretty good now. Lots of other things can be resized e.g. fonts in emails using the scroller which is pretty neat.

stuartforrest said:
...
I think it is too slow and I have one with the old rom which was rubbish and a new one which is slightly better but still miles slower than my touch cruise.
....
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Click to collapse
Hmmm. Funny. I had the cruise and I found the Diamond (even with the eariler rom) to be faster - enough to keep and be happy with (the Cruise went back to the store for being too slow- dialing was impossible, as you needed to wait long seconds before entering the next digit). I can't use Opera. Not a positive experience. I use IE.
So this tells me it's all VERY VERY subjective.

VGA skin for PCM keyboard. Resco Keyboard is a good alternative too.
http://pocketcm.com/phorum/read.php?14,1813
Personally if you are going to use your fingers, PCM is better

Its the Mac Versus PC arguement all over again!!!!!

I saw only one, extremely true and valid review up till now, and that was at Phonearena.com.
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/HTC-Touch-Diamond-Review-review-r_1956.html

i think the IPhone was very pushed by the press, they say to everyone "that thing is best, you need it!" bu i think there it will be soon a few people how see that the iphone is not all and it is to expensive for what it give. all these brandings, sim locks and many other is stupid. ok they ca be removed, but then the waranty is lost. but everyone who will the iphone shuld get one, i was lucky with my diamond, and with any other htc.
and about the rating on pc pro is unrealistic, i think they love realy the iphone and won't accept that are other phones are available and are as good as the iphone!

whys everyone so shocked? its like the video game industry and every other industry. they get paid and are given incentives to give good reviews (early test models, etc..)...that way everyone rushes out to buy the product..

They really need to try dutty's new ROM.. and if battery life is a problem for them, they could always go get the beefier battery. I'm happy with my Diamond - 2/6 is rediculous rating.

Kaiser VS Touch Pro

Is it really worth the upgrade?
The only plus i see on the Touch pro is the Manilla interface with real 3D.
But i do hope with time, the 3D Drivers get ported on our Kaiser, and therefore we can get the same UI than on the touch Diamond/Pro.
Of course the Touch Pro has a slick design and faster processor, but i dont really care about those .
What do you guys think about it ? Is it worth the 650E ?

I would hold out for a while
I am interested in getting it for the tv out. I would hold out until it gets some impartial reviews on here. I don't think T-Mo is gonna get it in the US but if it gets good reviews, I might get it from someone who gets in over their head with a phone where they don't need this many features.

guigui42 said:
Is it really worth the upgrade?
The only plus i see on the Touch pro is the Manilla interface with real 3D.
But i do hope with time, the 3D Drivers get ported on our Kaiser, and therefore we can get the same UI than on the touch Diamond/Pro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't hold your breath on the video drivers, sure the guys have already done sterling work so far and I thank them for the effort they have put in but in reality, I think that as more and more people move onto the diamond/touch pro then people will fail to care about the kaiser users any more and they will be forgotten. No doubt the devs will have plenty on their hands fixing HTC's latest cockups with their new handsets as I'm sure there will be many.
Personally I'd like nothing more than for those drivers to be polished off and for all of the kaiser users to stick it to HTC by keeping their kaisers and not filling HTC's pockets with cash by upgrading to the latest handset

foobar1977 said:
I wouldn't hold your breath on the video drivers, sure the guys have already done sterling work so far and I thank them for the effort they have put in but in reality, I think that as more and more people move onto the diamond/touch pro then people will fail to care about the kaiser users any more and they will be forgotten. No doubt the devs will have plenty on their hands fixing HTC's latest cockups with their new handsets as I'm sure there will be many.
Personally I'd like nothing more than for those drivers to be polished off and for all of the kaiser users to stick it to HTC by keeping their kaisers and not filling HTC's pockets with cash by upgrading to the latest handset
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
interesting point but how many people will do that? not many when lots of people have little patience for things to be fixed,upgraded,moded and ported.1 of the biggest things is touchflo 3d will obviously be the 1 of the best selling features about the touch pro. if any kaiser user would switch then they would prefer touch pro over the diamond in a heartbeat. i would.

How can you say that?
guigui42 said:
Is it really worth the upgrade? The only plus i see on the Touch pro is the Manilla interface with real 3D...QUOTE]
What about?
1. Faster processor
2. Bigger ROM
3. More RAM
4. 480x640 VGA
5. Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
6. LED light/flash
7. FM radio
...not to mention the Accelerometer and a 5 row keyboard.
It has EVERYTHING the TyTn II/Kaiser has PLUS all of this...why NOT upgrade?
T
E
C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

technillion said:
guigui42 said:
Is it really worth the upgrade? The only plus i see on the Touch pro is the Manilla interface with real 3D...QUOTE]
What about?
1. Faster processor
2. Bigger ROM
3. More RAM
4. 480x640 VGA
5. Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
6. LED light/flash
7. FM radio
...not to mention the Accelerometer and a 5 row keyboard.
It has EVERYTHING the TyTn II/Kaiser has PLUS all of this...why NOT upgrade?
T
E
C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite right - the only thing it does not have is a tilting screen, which I would miss a bit. Overall, there would be no overwhelming reason not to upgrade to Touch Pro if it weren't for the the Xperia X1 with WVGA screen, slightly tilted screen & probably nicer build quality (loved the high end Clie's!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

DavidMc0 said:
technillion said:
Quite right - the only thing it does not have is a tilting screen, which I would miss a bit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say the tilted screen is perhaps one feature that I would miss THE MOST!!
hehehe, Imagine...you are in your office, school, etc, and you are having lunch on your own, and feel like watching a movie clip to go with your lunch...
Place your TyTN II on your desk, flip the screen and tilt it, and voila you have your own mini portable tv with the right angle...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

meckah said:
Place your TyTN II on your desk, flip the screen and tilt it, and voila you have your own mini portable tv with the right angle...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I do this nearly every day at work. (And not necessarily only on lunch).

jpope said:
Yep, I do this nearly every day at work. (And not necessarily only on lunch).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tsk Tsk, Please come to my office first thing tomorrow.

Personally, I think many are putting too much into touch flow 3-d. I, personally, think it would suck. Finger prints and sluggish performance are hardly the fate I forsee my expensive handset espousing.
Just my opinion, and I assume others have different ones.

pinetreehater said:
Personally, I think many are putting too much into touch flow 3-d. I, personally, think it would suck. Finger prints and sluggish performance are hardly the fate I forsee my expensive handset espousing.
Just my opinion, and I assume others have different ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The point of having a touch screen is to be able to use your finger on it, not only stylus (else i would just get a Palm ).
And you have to admit, WM6 UI is not finger friendly. Luckily, we have iContacts, S2U etc... You talk about finger prings ? just have to wash your hands often and clean your screen once in a while.
I use my Kaiser 90% of time with my thumb, no stylus (only for non finger friendly apps).
So, in MY case, the touch Diamond / Pro UI is a must !
@technillion
I dont really care about the extra speed (as long as we have the proper drivers the kaiser is powerful enough) or extra space (gotta love the SDHC cards ), or even care less about the FM radio (who actually listen to FM radio nowdays ? its the internet era ).
But you are right, the VGA screen does seem pretty nice.
Also as mentioned above, i think the tilted screen will surely be missed.
Finally, i think i will wait for the next generation HTC to come out (September 2009 i suppose ?). Its a long wait, but if i must spend 650E, i prefer it to be for something that adds a really value compared to my Kaiser.

Just noticed your reply and wanted to comment. I agree with "finger friendly." However, using your finger to rub the screen (aka swipe) is different (read more smudgies) than using your finger to make a peck (or your finger nail as I do).
But I guess my point is really moot. After I talk on my phone, the screen is always covered in facial oil (I live in the S. Georgia, so I tend to sweat a lot). So, I guess finger smudges are really of little concern.

pinetreehater said:
Just noticed your reply and wanted to comment. I agree with "finger friendly." However, using your finger to rub the screen (aka swipe) is different (read more smudgies) than using your finger to make a peck (or your finger nail as I do).
But I guess my point is really moot. After I talk on my phone, the screen is always covered in facial oil (I live in the S. Georgia, so I tend to sweat a lot). So, I guess finger smudges are really of little concern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With my ExpertShields screen protector smudgies are not really a problem. Can't really see them unless I hold the phone just so so the reflection revels them. The ExertShild is also very smooth, you finger and stylus just gliudes across the screen.
I'll be eligable for an up grade in Febuary, and I plan to get one.

No 2D drivers, but 3D drivers is like saying.... you can play Crisis 3D realtime, but ur computer is not XP capable... :-/... Thats whats stopping me from getting it... I was really into HTC until I bought the AT&T Tilt... I just dont trust HTC with anything even though I feel like HTC Dream might actually be a good phone... I'd now rather just move to Nokia or Sony (because Sony doesnt release products until it matches quality... and if it doesnt, they WILL recall it ... )...

Tilt Screen
DavidMc0 said:
technillion said:
Quite right - the only thing it does not have is a tilting screen, which I would miss a bit. Overall, there would be no overwhelming reason not to upgrade to Touch Pro if it weren't for the the Xperia X1 with WVGA screen, slightly tilted screen & probably nicer build quality (loved the high end Clie's!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they put in a "Tilt Screen" they will not have enough things to put in the HTC Touch Pro Extreme next Generation. The Tilt will be in next Junes upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

why not wait for xmas when nvidia releases their chip and companies make phones with 1080p out put that can play for 10hrs straight. that would be so much more apealing then any other device.

technillion said:
guigui42 said:
Is it really worth the upgrade? The only plus i see on the Touch pro is the Manilla interface with real 3D...QUOTE]
What about?
1. Faster processor
2. Bigger ROM
3. More RAM
4. 480x640 VGA
5. Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
6. LED light/flash
7. FM radio
...not to mention the Accelerometer and a 5 row keyboard.
It has EVERYTHING the TyTn II/Kaiser has PLUS all of this...why NOT upgrade?
T
E
C
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some things are missing on the diamond pro compared to the Kaiser :
- the tilting screen : everyone knows this one ...
- the hardware buttons : the diamond has a very small amount of buttons. For me it is an important point as this is the fastest way to launch applications. It is also very important if you are a gamer.
- the scroll wheel : also very usefull for me.
- the power consomption is higher than the Kaiser. VGA screens are very power consuming screens.
- software compatibility problems : some applications just do not work (Tomtom 7 for exemple), some others do not work properly. It is mostly related to the VGA screen.
I also saw on the diamond threads that the speed is still an issue with this device. Some actual owners of the diamond reported to me that coming from the Kaiser (they had one before) it does not seem to be really worth the upgrade as the use of the phone in an "everyday activity" is not faster than the Kaiser. For exemle, using it as a phone sometimes take seconds for just closing a call ...
Just check, on the XDA forum, the Diamond threads and you will see that it may really not be worth the upgrade, at least this is my conclusion !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I also consider how much I would get from my Kaiser selling it now. Changing phones once a year can actually be very close (not the same, but almost) on the money spend as changing once every 2 yrs.

ssjgoku24 said:
why not wait for xmas when nvidia releases their chip and companies make phones with 1080p out put that can play for 10hrs straight. that would be so much more apealing then any other device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would like to see this first.. will probably be vaporware

ssjgoku24 said:
why not wait for xmas when nvidia releases their chip and companies make phones with 1080p out put that can play for 10hrs straight. that would be so much more apealing then any other device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do u have some closer info about phones with nvidia chips? I would like to know some info about that.

Kaiser/Tilt worthy upgrade?

Any Tilt or Kaiser owners plan to upgrade to the Touch Pro 2? Does it seem like it would be a significant upgrade? I'm curious to what you fellow Tilt/Kaiser owners think...

I have the Tilt and have not upgraded to the Fuze. I was waiting for the next big thing that ATT was potentially was going to bring over and it seem like this is it. I love the device's design in every aspect; looks amazing physicaly. What i don't like is that they stuck it with a 3mp camera (and removed flash!). I absolutely love the 3.6" screen. Basically, i'm pretty sure i'll be upgrading (i saved my contract upgrade and rejected the Fuze for this reason).

Yeah, I'm going to buy Touch Pro2, the reasons why, larger screen, better hardware, 5-row keyboard, looks very very cool, more finger-friendly.

iphone. if lack of a hw keyboard is not a deal breaker. After owning 2 winmo phones (currently using a tilt) and modding many other peoples iphones, i can honestly say that the iphone is superior in usability/apps/stability. after drooling for a touch diamond and then hearing my friend say its laggy after he bought it, was a real disappointment. Microsoft is really behind the curve in the mobile sector. Thinking about selling my tilt for iphone now. Might wait till winmo 7 to come out before purchasing another winmo phone. For the record i'm a pc guy and i think apple products/fans our generally pretentious and kinda douche-ie (not all though).

Not sure about the Touch Pro2. I rarely .. if ever use my keyboard. I am waiting on the HTC Topaz for ATT..... drool.

I'm probably gonna go for the TP2. 800x480 screen!
They only issue i see with the device is that they've removed the d-pad.

HTC looks like they've put every good feature into this device, from FM Radio to TV Out. It looks perfect, and although a faster processor or a DPAD wouldn't hurt. And a 6.5 upgrade sounds good as well. I am certainly getting this phone.
Dave

good thing i passed on the fuze too...The Touch pro 2 will definitely be up there on my next phone list...And this will probably be the real successor to the tytn ii...I think it also matches the specs we had a few months back on the then phantom "TILT 2" that never showed up...until now...

TP 2.... is it worth sniffing at?
Does anyone know if it'll have proper 3D and 2 D DirectX and Direct Draw drivers included? I'm not wanting a HTC customised menu so much as full native support of the built in hardware within the operating system and parts thereof such as Pocket Mediaplayer itself. I'd like to use video playback without having to slash the frame rates and/or resolution as I have to with my Kaiser (even under TCPMP).
I'm concerned to read that although it has GPS support, it doesn't appear to list what software is provided to use this in the UK/Europe. Does this mean that it could be the TP all over again with HTC refusing to acknowledge any GPS problems that may crop up? Without a tried and tested native GPS app bundled with the device, it won't be one for me.

I'm very tempted - but I think I'll have to wait until I actually can put my hands on one in a shop to decide. I fear I will find it too large and/or thick for my liking. The Tilt is thick, but small. The iphone is large to the point I feel mixed with regard to the size in the pocket/screen comfort balance, but at least is thin. The TP2 will be large AND thick. And it loses the DPAD indeed, and I use that a lot

only a few people think it would be a worthy upgrade?

What's that saying, once bitten....
timdeien1979 said:
only a few people think it would be a worthy upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If those who currently have Kaisers (or TPs for that matter) get a feeling of déjà vu with the 'finished' product and its shortcomings (video drivers, keyboard performance, GPS time to lock and any lag, important bits/features missed out etc) then yes, you are correct. HTC need to learn from its mistakes and provide a product that actually meets peoples needs fully and reliably if they want those who've already been stung by them to part with cash on a new HTC product. Many people here have already said they'll never buy another HTC product due to all the problems they've had so you get an idea of the extent of feeling about such things!

I'm planning to get the TP2
- Higher resolution big and wide screen
- Larger battery
- Faster processor
- More internal memory
- 5 row keyboard
- TV out
- USB OTG
- New TOUCH FLO 3D with larger soft menu screens
- WM 6.5 (when HTC will make it available)
I'll miss:
- D-pad
- Jog wheel
- Buttons!

Flying Kiwi said:
If those who currently have Kaisers (or TPs for that matter) get a feeling of déjà vu with the 'finished' product and its shortcomings (video drivers, keyboard performance, GPS time to lock and any lag, important bits/features missed out etc) then yes, you are correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or, there are people like me who are really happy with the Kaiser, and for whom it would take something really good to warrant a change. As said, I'll see the TP2 when it's there, but until then I don't plan to change at all.

If the cookers start cooking good roms and it can be unlocked ok then yes it looks lovely

Can the Diamond really be recommended?

I cant help, but I am "slowly" getting more and more convinced not to buy a Diamond because of the apparent issues I continue to find.
First I found out about the display issue which is (also officially) said to happen only with too much pressure (what exactly is too much), although some reported them as well and stated to have taken care. Now it seems there is yet one more issue with the backlighting respectively the hardware itself.
Would you say I am exaggerating and those issues are normal ones which happen to some extent on all phones or is my upcoming impression right that the Diamond might be a true beta product - it's not that those issues are exactly minor ones?
Please let me know your true and objective (please no fanboyism in either way ) opinion.

all I can say is these forums get a lot more of
"I have a problem"
then
"my diamond is working fine and i would not change a thing"
happy users
1 never come here
2 try to help others

If you come to a forum where people are seeking help with their phone then unsuprisingly you are gonna find alot of people with phone problems they would like help with.
This is true for all devices from phones to cars, and will always give the impression that the device has many flaws. In the bigger picture far more people are happy with their diamond than reading here will have you think.

i believe that the diamond really is a great smartphone, (no fanboyism) and that it really delivers a great bunch of possibilities, especially when paired with xda developers it migth tend to be a little slow sometimes though. and sometimes even slower... but the first problem you described, ive never heard of before, and i do not believe you will experience this without trying to do it, or if you by accident throws a rock at the display (accident???) the second problem sounded like a flash of a custom rom gone wrong, which doesnt really have anything to do with the phone, but more with the person behind the phone
these 2 problems that you talk about seems like some that only happens if you doesnt take a little care of your phone, and i do not believe that these should make you worry about getting a diamond. but you might want to consider buying a diamond2 instead, since its about to get released

.
Thanks for all your responses so far, of course the argument of complainers being louder is valid, but I suppose I am particularly worried here because the two mentioned issues seem to be quite common - among the complainers at least - and seem to be rather major issues and not like a minor one such as a buggy software.
Hojlind said:
but the first problem you described, ive never heard of before, and i do not believe you will experience this without trying to do it, or if you by accident throws a rock at the display (accident???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Usually I am not using rocks , but there are also quite a few in the mentioned thread who have stated to never have mistreated the display. Of course its not easy to verify this claim but I have to admit it makes me worry.
Hojlind said:
the second problem sounded like a flash of a custom rom gone wrong, which doesnt really have anything to do with the phone, but more with the person behind the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have assumed that too, however it doesnt seem to have taken place immediately after flashing but a few days later and a few even mentioned it happened without any flashing at all.
Hojlind said:
these 2 problems that you talk about seems like some that only happens if you doesnt take a little care of your phone, and i do not believe that these should make you worry about getting a diamond. but you might want to consider buying a diamond2 instead, since its about to get released
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What attracts me particularly to the Diamond is its size. It is one of the smallest Windows Mobile phones available. The Diamond 2 is already noticeable larger and so I'd then opt for the HD right away.

I've had so many devices I can't remember how many, from pocket pc's to the diamond I've just been randomly given free, not on upgrade .. just a random gift.
First impressions - after having it for 6 hours:
Looks great, I like the candybar format, after the Vario III it's .. novel.
The screen is a vast improvement over the last generation of screens.
The camera produces usable images, the Vario III didn't. haven't tried video but the new drivers seem to be doing their job.
GPS lag has not been tested on the road but tomtom picked up a signal quickly enough.
I've not yet experienced the dropped call when answering because of the end call nonsense on the screen. If I do there is a workaround.
The Compact IV won't open a full 300mb Memory Map file, I've had to break the maps down into bite size chunks for it.
After using the vario III for a long time I've never used more than 3.5GB, despite having a 6GB card so I won't miss the lack of memory card.
I didn't use the keyboard of the other phones I used to the lack of it is welcome.
On balance, I would recommend this phone but a novice would quickly be frustrated and that's mostly down to interface quirks which you get used to after a while, and here's usually a workaround for most problems, except a duff driver.
Why the people at HTC and t-mobile don't just farm the ROM dev out to xda-dev is beyond me.
The developers here do a better job, quicker and cheaper than the bunch of talentless spods employed by the various co's who make the devices. Although, I might be being too harsh on the spods, they probably do a great job but get stymied by the suits.
Could I recommend the Diamond ? Yes.

Diamond is the best WM device I've ever used...
Mine's been bumping around in my pocket for the last 10 months, dropped a couple of times, lives in a (padded) bumbag when I'm trail riding my pushbike and generally been used rather a lot - but never abused.
In my previous job role I managed 1500 WM devices for an SME (sig...) and I can say with the absolute certainty of someone who has been there for a living that the kind of hardware failures that get reported here are almost unheard of in any WM devices that haven't been physically mistreated or had roms flashed in a hamfisted way.
Sitting down a couple of times with a touchscreen phone in the front pocket of a tight pair of trousers will always flex the device just enough for the display to fail somewhere down the line - usually long after the offender has left our employ and the device has been passed on to the next user...
Mind you I'll probably pick up a Touch Pro 2 when my contract is up for renewal...

I had one for a few months and didnt like it.
I am not remotely clued up on the technical side of things so this is very much a laymans report:
It had lots of features I liked but on the whole the phone was too much hassle and its cons outweighed its pro's. (the poor camera, the "black screen" when on the phone thing, the poor on/off button on the top, the poor lock/unlock system. But i loved the interface of the phone.
Swapped it for a LG Renoir and miss the Diamond, but they both have things the other doesnt. So I am no better off.
When will someone make the perfect phone? lol

The Diamond is excellent if you can handle it meaning you have really get into tweaking. Out of the box I would not recommend it but if you are willing improve it on your own by using the helpful programs of this forum than it's an excellent choice.

I have had several PDA phones: Sansung i700, i730, i760, HTC Mogul. Of those I loved the i760 with it's number keypad (granted it had it's issues also). Hated the Mogul (low memory issue and slow). The Diamond I consider an outstanding phone. My biggest issue is the lack of responsiveness of the screen. Takes some getting use to. I did the registry changes but didn't notice a real difference. Compared to the other PDA phones I mentioned I love the display quality, size, look, feel, and $10 internet with Sprint. Perfect phone for me. The battery life I can deal with. I have a cradle with a spare battery, a car charger and spare charger at work so I'm always prepared. By the way the battery life seems to have gotten better with the latest ROM update. I could recomend it but I always let people know of the battery issue, screen responsiveness and still having problems with time issue here in Arizona (changes by an hour every once in a while for some reason).

eurofan said:
The Diamond is excellent if you can handle it meaning you have really get into tweaking. Out of the box I would not recommend it but if you are willing improve it on your own by using the helpful programs of this forum than it's an excellent choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that!!!
It wasn't great out of the box. But now.... I love tweaking/flashing and would recommend it to anyone.
Although, if your thinking of purchasing a diamond, personally, I would wait till the 'Touch Diamond 2' is released.

I agree with alot of the comments
Basically the HTC Diamond, or it many variants, is an excellent device (and I have had many many many devices).
What it has going for it:
1. Size
2. Weight
3. Fantastic screen
4. Looks nice and cute/good form factor
5. Well made
Issues:
6. Battery should have been bigger - not really an issue for me as I have a charger at work and home. I tend to charge every two days unless I have been using it intensly and then top up on the day (normally I top up if on 2 bars).
7. Shipped firmwares in the UK are mostly pants!
8. No card slot. Now I want to be clear about this, if you are just installing programs and/or data the 4GB storage is absolutely fine, more then enough in fact. It also is good for a small set of videos or music. However, if you want to store large amounts of music or videos then this device is not for you!
Basically, if you upgrade the Diamond after purchase to one of the more excellent ROMs on this site, it will have a beautiful display and quick response.
Also, note that, unlike something like the HTC Touch, this is a premium device. Which means it has nice touches like the stylus is held in magnetically and also, when you pull the stylus out it automatically switches the display on.
In terms of the Diamond 2 issue, that is obviously a better device, but the price will reflect it, and the HTC Diamond is now looking very good value. Personally, I like buying phones at the end of their run, as the firmware and price are the best.
Lastly, the HTC Diamond is a bit of a cult device. Why is this important ? Because it means that the support on xda-developers is much better then the less popular devices. As the HTC Diamond's price goes down, this will just increase.
best rgds

i just seriously love my diamond..the price on ebay is going down at a rapid pace n yeah..i love it bcoz of all the tweakin u can do on it..
man oh man..on which other device can u get a "not yet working" android os as well as some iphone like stuff for unlockin, music etc..n u can just about change everything thats on the phone..
tht may be coz its my first ever windows mobile phone n i was suprised by the remote desktop..use it to play poker on facebook now!! wanna view tv for uefa cup late at night..no problemo..n the autofocus camera with a beautiful vga screen adds as the biggest pro as i snap pics of my college assignments that are readable on its vga screen
i am a little disappointed with the touch screen though..cos when in remote desktop full screen, u cannot reach to the minimize, maximize n close buttons.. though u can use another software but its the touchscreen fault as the 4 corners of the screen are difficult to tap..
but overall im very satisfied n recommend it to all

The diamond rules!!! Buy one!! Buy one now :d

I just bought one cheap,don't like the diamond 2,it has no d-pad and looks a fair bit bigger.
The screen quality (colours and contrast)from what I've seen on youtube against the likes of the HD is what made me keen on it.
I have been using O2 flames for the last 2 years,so the battery life will be something I'm used to.
Hopefully it isn't like the atom life I bought and ended up selling within a week

gerryjoson said:
I just bought one cheap,don't like the diamond 2,it has no d-pad and looks a fair bit bigger.
The screen quality (colours and contrast)from what I've seen on youtube against the likes of the HD is what made me keen on it.
I have been using O2 flames for the last 2 years,so the battery life will be something I'm used to.
Hopefully it isn't like the atom life I bought and ended up selling within a week
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good luck! the quality of the diamond is much nicer then the atom.
start off on a good foot with a good rom

had a diamond sinve day 1 of orange uk launch
once flashed........a great phone.
does everything i want and more....so its gets a 10/10 from me...
if thats worth anything to you

^^^ Fanboy...
My opinion is that the Diamond is a nice attractive phone in a good size. Having said that, there are 3 major flaws:
1. Battery life
2. Speed
3. Software
The software one is the most solvable, with the number of tweaks, ROMs and free apps available here. I've supplemented that with a large amount of commercial software in order to get the best possible experience but this is of course very expensive to do properly.

Diamond is very good phone, i think you will never regret if you will buy one.
About problem on screen and presure ( i have that problem ), i think it comes because, when need to open back for sim card or for battery. To open back we need to press screen.

Had a diamond around 9 or 10 months now, considered buying an HD or a few other wannabees but any time I consider buying a new phone I just need to look @ my diamond & I remember why it's so damn good, It's looks haven't been matched or surpassed yet & the so called newer updated htc 1's/ other makes aren't that much better IMHO in performance etc... oh yeah & their all big fat bricks !!!
I'm sticking to my precious DIAMOND for a while yet thx
Oh & BTW that htc update has finally finally fixed it's biggest/ annoying bug, my diamond hasn't skipped an mp3 track since I installed it, I think I'll keep mine forever now hehehehe...