Database Develop

My Kaiser/Hermes comparison review.

I have to say after having both phones for the last month I'm not that impressed with the Kaiser.
The lack of accelerated drivers alone is a disappointment.
Other things I don't like are:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Keyboard is worse than the TyTN in every way, it feels worse and definitly doesn't work as well. It misses out more keypresses than the TyTN ever did. (I appreciate this could well be a ROM issue but i've tried a few and they all do it.)
Screen presses are ignored a LOT.. compared to the TyTN its absolutly hellish having to whack the screen sometimes for it to respond.
No light (ok it was crap for flash anyways but it was useful with VJCandela as a torch)
Autofocus isn't any better at focussing, its just slower. It's better for macro shots definitly.. and you dont have to manually twist the lever on the back of the phone.. but it certainly isnt up to sony ericsson AF camera standards.
The softkeys are absolutly stupid, if you have big fingers you press start call or end call half the time instead of the softkey purely because of the ridge that runs round the top of the softkeys from the call buttons being too high.
The internal softkeys are also now in a stupid place to make way for the blindingly bright caps lock lights that were not needed..
The phone slides the wrong way making it incompatible with cases and some accessories for the TyTN as well as frustrating to use for a TyTN user.
The stylus is crap compared to the extending one on the TyTN, and again means I cant use the spare ones id bought for the TyTN..
The extra memory and flash space are very nice.. and the GPS is fantastic.. but I'd rather have those 2 features alone bolted onto the hermes hardware..
Way to go HTC.. alienate one of the biggest markets.. I certainly wont be upgrading again in the future before I have a good look at competitors devices..

Some of your points on the touchscreen responsiveness etc are fair, but I think the design and overall build quality of the Kaiser beats the Hermes. The tilting screen is a really nice improvement, and while I can see how the change in orientation might be difficult for some Hermes owners to adjust to, I don't see how it's in any way inferior - just different. I prefer the solid stylus to an extending version too.
It's much better having all the buttons grouped together IMO - everything's within easy reach. I have (I'd say) moderate size fingers, and have no problem there.
Both camera and keyboard performance could be improved, but I think we're getting into the whole, wider driver issue there. I think the Kaiser still has the potential to be much improved, and I'm vaguely hopeful that those improvements will come.

sambartle said:
I have to say after having both phones for the last month I'm not that impressed with the Kaiser.
The lack of accelerated drivers alone is a disappointment.
Other things I don't like are:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its an ancient technology that has been surpassed by both bluetooth and wifi, what could you possibly need to use infrared for these days?
sambartle said:
Keyboard is worse than the TyTN in every way, it feels worse and definitly doesn't work as well. It misses out more keypresses than the TyTN ever did. (I appreciate this could well be a ROM issue but i've tried a few and they all do it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find the keyboard on the Kaiser, sooo much better than on the Hermes, with the Hermes I actually used the onscreen keyboard instead, it was that bad. The kaiser now has a very usable keyboard that is finally comparable with my P990i. With the only exception being the space-bar, which for some reason can press twice (left and right) which is slightly annoying.
sambartle said:
Screen presses are ignored a LOT.. compared to the TyTN its absolutly hellish having to whack the screen sometimes for it to respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have an issue with this at all, screen seems to be the same as it was on the Hermes, perhaps take a look at KaiserTweak, there's a setting in there I think.
sambartle said:
No light (ok it was crap for flash anyways but it was useful with VJCandela as a torch)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you here, a light would have been nice, but only for using it as a torch, useless for taking photos.
sambartle said:
Autofocus isn't any better at focussing, its just slower. It's better for macro shots definitly.. and you dont have to manually twist the lever on the back of the phone.. but it certainly isnt up to sony ericsson AF camera standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really take many pictures, and even less since the camera (due to driver issue) is so bad on the Kaiser, but I will agree, that compared to my P990i, the autofocus is poor.
The softkeys are absolutly stupid, if you have big fingers you press start call or end call half the time instead of the softkey purely because of the ridge that runs round the top of the softkeys from the call buttons being too high.
sambartle said:
The internal softkeys are also now in a stupid place to make way for the blindingly bright caps lock lights that were not needed..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the complete opposite, I always used to catch them stupid softkeys on the Hermes keyboard, so I am happy they've been moved now
sambartle said:
The phone slides the wrong way making it incompatible with cases and some accessories for the TyTN as well as frustrating to use for a TyTN user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I prefer having the d-pad on the left (even though I'm right handed), and thus have no issue with the sliding of the phone, it doesn't take long to get used to, and I don't own any accessories affected by this.
sambartle said:
The stylus is crap compared to the extending one on the TyTN, and again means I cant use the spare ones id bought for the TyTN..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FINALLY, HTC did something good, got rid of that god-damn awful stylus from the Hermes, that was the worst stylus I'd ever used. P990i and Kaiser, have much better non-extending ones.

I have to disagree with the OP.
The Kaiser is heads and tails and improvement over the Hermes.
Agreed, the keyboard is one step down in some respects, but umm...that is about it.
It is a solid device with a high end feel. The Tytn is the VW of smartphones, Kaiser is when you walked across the parking lot to the Audi dealership

sambartle said:
I have to say after having both phones for the last month I'm not that impressed with the Kaiser.
The lack of accelerated drivers alone is a disappointment.
Other things I don't like are:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like posted before me, it's an ancient technology. Why IR when you have bluetooth? Plus, you knew about the phone not having IR, so, technically, it's your fault for buying the device and complaining about not having an IR.
Keyboard is worse than the TyTN in every way, it feels worse and definitly doesn't work as well. It misses out more keypresses than the TyTN ever did. (I appreciate this could well be a ROM issue but i've tried a few and they all do it.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use the built-in keyboard much so I can't comment much but the times I have used it, I have felt no difference between 8525 and Tilt.
Screen presses are ignored a LOT.. compared to the TyTN its absolutly hellish having to whack the screen sometimes for it to respond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not have this problem at all.
No light (ok it was crap for flash anyways but it was useful with VJCandela as a torch)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never cared for it (for taking pictures or flashlight).
Autofocus isn't any better at focussing, its just slower. It's better for macro shots definitly.. and you dont have to manually twist the lever on the back of the phone.. but it certainly isnt up to sony ericsson AF camera standards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree with you there, but, then again, I have my digital camera for taking pictures.
The softkeys are absolutly stupid, if you have big fingers you press start call or end call half the time instead of the softkey purely because of the ridge that runs round the top of the softkeys from the call buttons being too high.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problems here!
The internal softkeys are also now in a stupid place to make way for the blindingly bright caps lock lights that were not needed..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am ok with the placements (better than 8525/Hermes).
The phone slides the wrong way making it incompatible with cases and some accessories for the TyTN as well as frustrating to use for a TyTN user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, you knew about the design before buying it, so, you cannot complain.
The stylus is crap compared to the extending one on the TyTN, and again means I cant use the spare ones id bought for the TyTN..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stylus is WAYYYYYY BETTEEERRR than the telescoping one in 8525/Hermes.
The extra memory and flash space are very nice.. and the GPS is fantastic.. but I'd rather have those 2 features alone bolted onto the hermes hardware..
Way to go HTC.. alienate one of the biggest markets.. I certainly wont be upgrading again in the future before I have a good look at competitors devices..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Completenutter2 said:
I prefer having the d-pad on the left (even though I'm right handed), and thus have no issue with the sliding of the phone, it doesn't take long to get used to, and I don't own any accessories affected by this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never thought about this really but now I've looked at it, the left handed D-pad when in landscape is more compatible with a gaming joypad and, as I am right handed, I dont have to shuffle the stylus around in my hand to use it!!
HTC and ergonomics...Whatever next!!

Overall I find the Kaiser an improvent on the Hermes, with a couple of notable exceptions:
-The slightly inferior keyboard (but I've adapted to it)
-The idiotic door on the mico-sd port. You need tweezers to open it. What was wrong with the spring loaded slot on the Hermes?
-The soft reset switch on the Kaiser is too close to the delicate mini USB port. It is very easy to accidentally jam the stylus into the USB port and render the phone completely worthless.
IMO the non-telescoping stylus is a HUGE improvement over the Hermes. Give it a few months and those telescoping styli become loose or end up expanding to their full length on their own for no reason. The Kaiser stylus sits nice and flush with the corner of the case, yet the 'nub' is big enough that you don't have to use tweezers or ruin your fingernails trying to dig it out of the silo.

lcohen999 said:
It is a solid device with a high end feel. The Tytn is the VW of smartphones, Kaiser is when you walked across the parking lot to the Audi dealership
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And paid more for the same car?
Sorry, I like Audi, but to me you don't get your money's worth over VW.
So I think your comparison is right on. The Tytn II, seems like it should be better, and you paid more for it, but after all is said and done, it's not really worth the extra cash.

my 8525 was free and so was my tilt so i feel the price was worth it. ha!

FWIW the Kaiser is streets ahead of the Hermes.
The Hermes was a huge leap forward from the Wizard, and the Kaiser is another leap forward again.
Of course if mine didnt scroll or actually do what I wanted when I wanted it to then I might feel differently...

jgermuga said:
And paid more for the same car?
Sorry, I like Audi, but to me you don't get your money's worth over VW.
So I think your comparison is right on. The Tytn II, seems like it should be better, and you paid more for it, but after all is said and done, it's not really worth the extra cash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A3 vs GTi
no comparison (I'm sure you can guess what I drive)

lcohen999 said:
A3 vs GTi
no comparison (I'm sure you can guess what I drive)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OH..got an A3 as my business car last trip back to the UK...Was like Sh*t off of the preverbial shovel (as we say in Yorkshire!).
Loved that week...Mmmmm!
Soz, was drooling there...
Back to my basic Murano...

Eos vs A4 Cabriolet, $7,500 less + DSG and a hard top with sunroof (no quatro option though).
Guess which I drive?

jgermuga said:
Eos vs A4 Cabriolet, $7,500 less + DSG and a hard top with sunroof (no quatro option though).
Guess which I drive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SOD OFF!! hate these people with nice cars....
OOps..anyone think we have gone off topic a bit here...

sambartle said:
No Infrared - I'm not sure what the justification for removing this is.. ok it may save a few pence off the cost - and maybe not many people use it.. but for those of us that do its an annoyance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Generally I love the Kaiser (as I'm sure some know from a certain thread!) and I have no way to compare it to the Hermes. But I do have to agree on the IR thing. It was great for quick file transfers and Activesync. OK so I have now spent a day fiddling with the Kaiser and got my laptop and it working just as well over bluetooth but it was still nice as a backup incase the USB ever failed as you can't establish a new partnership over bluetooth, only IR / USB. Another thing I did use IR for was as a remote shutter release for my camera. Bit of hacking and it saved me UK£25 on buying the proper remote. So there are still applications for IR.
Also the camera flash(light). I came from the HTC Universal which had these things too.
Overall, I knew what the Kaiser had, what it didn't and made my choice with that info so I can't complain, just agreeeing with the OP on a couple of points that I can relate too.
Oh, and I drive a Vauxhall (GM) car, never bought into buying a badge! (though you could buy a Skoda, it's the same car, just a lower purchase price!)

Steve-C said:
Generally I love the Kaiser (as I'm sure some know from a certain thread!) and I have no way to compare it to the Hermes. But I do have to agree on the IR thing. It was great for quick file transfers and Activesync. OK so I have now spent a day fiddling with the Kaiser and got my laptop and it working just as well over bluetooth but it was still nice as a backup incase the USB ever failed as you can't establish a new partnership over bluetooth, only IR / USB. Another thing I did use IR for was as a remote shutter release for my camera. Bit of hacking and it saved me UK£25 on buying the proper remote. So there are still applications for IR.
Also the camera flash(light). I came from the HTC Universal which had these things too.
Overall, I knew what the Kaiser had, what it didn't and made my choice with that info so I can't complain, just agreeeing with the OP on a couple of points that I can relate too.
Oh, and I drive a Vauxhall (GM) car, never bought into buying a badge! (though you could buy a Skoda, it's the same car, just a lower purchase price!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree with all your points on the Kaiser Steve, as to be honest, I TOO miss the IR for its compatibility to Vcard transfer to people with older phones.
A Skoda???

Audi A4 £23k, VW Passat £19k, Skoda Octavia £14k. Same floorpan, engine, errr everything really. Is a badge really worth £9,000?! (And the Skoda comes with a flappy paddle gearbox as standard...) Off topic...nah!

IMO the d-pad is muuuuch better than the tytn's. the only thing i was missing when i've started using Kaiser was the comm-manager button,
but with Hbutton it's no big deal to map another key to Comm-Manager.
I never liked the Email and Internet button at the top...now i'm quiet happy with all buttons in one place...
No need for flashlight...never used, and if i ever use, plamp would be enough bright i think.
And the Keyboard feels much better with the fingers...just love it...
my car: opel omega..... no further comment...

My biggest form factor nit compared to the 8125 is that the stylis needs to be retrieved from the left side while the keyboard is open, which makes it difficult to pull out if you are right handed as your left hand is in the way. On the 8125, it was in the upper right hand corner while the keyboard was out and pulling the stylis was very handy. Not sure how the 8525 was set up, but I think it was the same as the 8125, right?
Besides that, the 8125 had stereo speakers, which I sometimes used for music but really made the most difference when on a speaker phone call. And the normal 2.5" headphone jack was a plus. Why HTC does not include a USB adapter (which csot more to ship than the purchase price) is beyond me. It's like someone said, "Hey, let come up with a proprietary headphone jack so that no one can use a third party headset without buying an adapter, which we don't even sell???
Do they think they are Apple or sumthin?

I knew that would be a controversial post..
I actually agree that the D-Pad on the left is better... However.. the phones crap for playing games anyways.. and once they had ruined it on the hermes i'd have preferred it to stay how it was as I was used to it and my accessories would have worked.
I'm now wondering if the reason my screen is so poor compared to the hermes is something to do with the screen protector then if no one else sees it as a problem, I used a custom crystal-clear harder more plastic one on the hermes.. on the kaiser I used the one supplied with the phone (the crappy rubbery plastic one supplied in the box - im not sure if it comes with all tytn2's or if Orange add it), maybe that is in some way affecting the screen?
The stylus I might get used too.. but at the moment I definitely prefer the thicker one from the tytn and never had any problems with it coming loose (though I lost a few from putting them down and walking off)
Infrared is useful for all kinds of things.. I can use it to talk to older phones, older laptops for a modem connection, servers for a terminal.. all sorts of stuff. Its almost essential. I didn't actually know until the first time I tried to use it that it wasn't there!! Its a shocking ommission in my eyes.
Its like removing the dvd drive from every pc and saying yes dvd's are old you should all burn and use hddvd or bluray now.
The build quality is better, or feels it.. but I think time will tell how robust the hinge is, it certainly doesn't look as strong as the hermes fixing..

Kaiser/Tilt worthy upgrade?

Any Tilt or Kaiser owners plan to upgrade to the Touch Pro 2? Does it seem like it would be a significant upgrade? I'm curious to what you fellow Tilt/Kaiser owners think...

I have the Tilt and have not upgraded to the Fuze. I was waiting for the next big thing that ATT was potentially was going to bring over and it seem like this is it. I love the device's design in every aspect; looks amazing physicaly. What i don't like is that they stuck it with a 3mp camera (and removed flash!). I absolutely love the 3.6" screen. Basically, i'm pretty sure i'll be upgrading (i saved my contract upgrade and rejected the Fuze for this reason).

Yeah, I'm going to buy Touch Pro2, the reasons why, larger screen, better hardware, 5-row keyboard, looks very very cool, more finger-friendly.

iphone. if lack of a hw keyboard is not a deal breaker. After owning 2 winmo phones (currently using a tilt) and modding many other peoples iphones, i can honestly say that the iphone is superior in usability/apps/stability. after drooling for a touch diamond and then hearing my friend say its laggy after he bought it, was a real disappointment. Microsoft is really behind the curve in the mobile sector. Thinking about selling my tilt for iphone now. Might wait till winmo 7 to come out before purchasing another winmo phone. For the record i'm a pc guy and i think apple products/fans our generally pretentious and kinda douche-ie (not all though).

Not sure about the Touch Pro2. I rarely .. if ever use my keyboard. I am waiting on the HTC Topaz for ATT..... drool.

I'm probably gonna go for the TP2. 800x480 screen!
They only issue i see with the device is that they've removed the d-pad.

HTC looks like they've put every good feature into this device, from FM Radio to TV Out. It looks perfect, and although a faster processor or a DPAD wouldn't hurt. And a 6.5 upgrade sounds good as well. I am certainly getting this phone.
Dave

good thing i passed on the fuze too...The Touch pro 2 will definitely be up there on my next phone list...And this will probably be the real successor to the tytn ii...I think it also matches the specs we had a few months back on the then phantom "TILT 2" that never showed up...until now...

TP 2.... is it worth sniffing at?
Does anyone know if it'll have proper 3D and 2 D DirectX and Direct Draw drivers included? I'm not wanting a HTC customised menu so much as full native support of the built in hardware within the operating system and parts thereof such as Pocket Mediaplayer itself. I'd like to use video playback without having to slash the frame rates and/or resolution as I have to with my Kaiser (even under TCPMP).
I'm concerned to read that although it has GPS support, it doesn't appear to list what software is provided to use this in the UK/Europe. Does this mean that it could be the TP all over again with HTC refusing to acknowledge any GPS problems that may crop up? Without a tried and tested native GPS app bundled with the device, it won't be one for me.

I'm very tempted - but I think I'll have to wait until I actually can put my hands on one in a shop to decide. I fear I will find it too large and/or thick for my liking. The Tilt is thick, but small. The iphone is large to the point I feel mixed with regard to the size in the pocket/screen comfort balance, but at least is thin. The TP2 will be large AND thick. And it loses the DPAD indeed, and I use that a lot

only a few people think it would be a worthy upgrade?

What's that saying, once bitten....
timdeien1979 said:
only a few people think it would be a worthy upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If those who currently have Kaisers (or TPs for that matter) get a feeling of déjà vu with the 'finished' product and its shortcomings (video drivers, keyboard performance, GPS time to lock and any lag, important bits/features missed out etc) then yes, you are correct. HTC need to learn from its mistakes and provide a product that actually meets peoples needs fully and reliably if they want those who've already been stung by them to part with cash on a new HTC product. Many people here have already said they'll never buy another HTC product due to all the problems they've had so you get an idea of the extent of feeling about such things!

I'm planning to get the TP2
- Higher resolution big and wide screen
- Larger battery
- Faster processor
- More internal memory
- 5 row keyboard
- TV out
- USB OTG
- New TOUCH FLO 3D with larger soft menu screens
- WM 6.5 (when HTC will make it available)
I'll miss:
- D-pad
- Jog wheel
- Buttons!

Flying Kiwi said:
If those who currently have Kaisers (or TPs for that matter) get a feeling of déjà vu with the 'finished' product and its shortcomings (video drivers, keyboard performance, GPS time to lock and any lag, important bits/features missed out etc) then yes, you are correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or, there are people like me who are really happy with the Kaiser, and for whom it would take something really good to warrant a change. As said, I'll see the TP2 when it's there, but until then I don't plan to change at all.

If the cookers start cooking good roms and it can be unlocked ok then yes it looks lovely

who will be upgrading to Diamond2?

Diamond2 is coming out around 10th april so wondering who will be upgrading or buying it?
is it worth getting the 2nd gen diamond?
i am stuck in a 18mth contract, so can't upgrade now untill apr 2010

harrysaab said:
Diamond2 is coming out around 10th april so wondering who will be upgrading or buying it?
is it worth getting the 2nd gen diamond?
i am stuck in a 18mth contract, so can't upgrade now untill apr 2010
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I will be eventually doing is switching over regardless of contracts. I will going to Florida in the summer and picking one up there. When I return, I will just simply selling my old Diamond. This will all happen by August of this year. I never wait for contracts to expire. That would make me go crazy having a phone for 2 or 3 years straight. This is my 4th phone in the last 6 months....lol
Phones I had in the last 6mths:
1) HP 6955
2) Cruise
3) Trinity
4) Diamond

i think i will be getting the touch pro 2 instead of the diamond 2

Touch Pro 2 here too... played with the Diamond 2 at MWC, I don't like it's look and feel.

Touch Pro 2 is the poison I choose this time.
Will keep my Beloved Diamond 1 for when I need Sleeeknesssss.
Greetz to all.

lucky you... wish i had the chance to visit the mwc

i dont like the look of the diamond 2 it feel cheap
and the pro 2 is very biig its even bigger than TyTN II its better if they name it TyTN III
i will wait for a new phone from htc (diamond 3)

Don't like the Diamond 2
Diamond 2 doesn't look as nice as my original diamond. Touch Pro 2 looks better than the diamond 2, but I'm not liking it either. I might just totally skip on the latest HTC phones and try out the Palm Pre 'till HTC comes up with something else.

Didn't HTC hire a designer or something for their new devices??
I think the oncoming HTC devices are ugly... I really liked the touch phones, they were the first phones that just looked good (except the cruise) and especially the diamand/pro
I wish i never got that touch dual i have now im stuck with it until december;(
But i guess it'll be the iphone for then, I already have a decent winmo phone

iamjonso said:
Diamond 2 doesn't look as nice as my original diamond. Touch Pro 2 looks better than the diamond 2, but I'm not liking it either. I might just totally skip on the latest HTC phones and try out the Palm Pre 'till HTC comes up with something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah me too, tho with luck all the early probs with the pre will have been ironed out by the time my 18mnth contract runs out in january 2010.....

Chainfire said:
Touch Pro 2 here too... played with the Diamond 2 at MWC, I don't like it's look and feel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chainfire, can you elaborate a little on what you didn't like about the Diamond 2's look and feel? Is it bricky, cheap, squarish? I have a D1 and am considering the 'upgrade'. Thanks.

well, as i compared the dimensions of the new diamond2 to the old it seems it got a bit larger. it now has the size of the iphone, which in my opinion is too large.
i really like the size of the diamond1, it is a phone-size all-in wonder, and not a tablet-pc with a phone function.
the only real advantage i see is the bigger screen for better working but this is also the reason for the bigger dimensions...
the rest of the new features?
better camera? well get a digicam if you want good pictures, 5mp but no flashlight, forget good pics at evening or at indoor places with bad light...
the other updates: memory,sd slot and better battery, well nice but its no world-wonder...
and the diamond pro 2? brick with phone function? come on...
i will stay with my diamond1 and keep waiting.
so my opionion is: size DOES matter
everyone have a nice day!

i like the no2 think i mgit go there if three get there act together and get a stylish phone made by HTC rather than the current junk
but like most ive got 12 months left on the contract so lets hope the 3 is out and ready and stable by then

WMguy said:
Chainfire, can you elaborate a little on what you didn't like about the Diamond 2's look and feel? Is it bricky, cheap, squarish? I have a D1 and am considering the 'upgrade'. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, please start by opening this link in a new window:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1750&view=1
You can immediately see it is not as small or as cute as the original Diamond ( <3 !! )
It feels a bit 'stretched' in your hand when you are playing with it, don't have a better word to say it.
But the absolute worst part is the 'bottom of the front' as you can see in the picture. They gray/silvery part looks incredibly cheap/ugly IRL, and its just a waste of space with no function (they should have just made the thing a centimeter shorter).
Furthermore, between the small buttons above the silvery part and the touchscreen soft-buttons is a so called zoom-slider. It's hard to see in the picture on that page, but again this is a waste of space - and it looks really awkward too. While I imagine it could be handy while web-browsing (if it actually works, it didn't do anything on the demo models I played with), at least for me that isn't that important and I would have much preferred an on-screen zoom slider in the browser instead. Again, they could have made the thing another centimeter shorter.
It's just one hell of a butt-ugly phone (well ok it isn't as ugly as say, the G1, but it's nowhere near as sleek as the original Diamond and Touch Pro) and wastes space all over the place. It doesn't feel 'right' in your hand either.
Hope that explains it a bit.
Note that I just noticed the Rhodium has this frecking zoom slider as well... bah!

the only characteristic worth mentioning in case you make the transition is the card slot... But really! Features like the enlarged screen (800x480), a wee better camera and a flashy new metallic design won't make me change my diamond... I mean, they aren't features which make a big diff... let alone define a TRUE SEQUEL.
+ they ditched the D-pad and replaced it with a silly horizontal zoom panel... Why!?!?! it pretty much looks like a DOWNGRADE to me.
No thx!

Not me, that's for sure!
I like my Diamond, despite its poor speed and short battery life... but I'm hoping that something else good comes out in the 9 months or so that are left on my 18 month contract!
My preference would be another WinMo phone but faster, better battery, TV out and possibly even proper headphone jack. Doesn't have to be HTC because HTC software is so poor.

val3nteen said:
the only characteristic worth mentioning in case you make the transition is the card slot... But really! Features like the enlarged screen (800x480), a wee better camera and a flashy new metallic design won't make me change my diamond... I mean, they aren't features which make a big diff... let alone define a TRUE SEQUEL.
+ they ditched the D-pad and replaced it with a silly horizontal zoom panel... Why!?!?! it pretty much looks like a DOWNGRADE to me.
No thx!
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Click to collapse
I only played with the Diamond2 a little bit today and yesterday but the one thing I noticed is that performance did seem to be noticeably improved. As I whipped around TF3D it seemed quite a bit snappier than my Diamond. Some of the hardware changes do make you wonder but the TF3D software seems significantly better (that being said - I did get WM to freeze rather easily when playing with the onscreen keyboard - oops!) I didn't think the phone was butt ugly but, in all fairness, I was drooling a little.
Just like most people, the HTC people said that the Pro2 seems to be the one exciting people more but while the features are cool it is kind of a brick IMHO. Of course, I also looked at the P6500 and that made the Pro2 look not *quite* so big!

certainly not me, the device as it is is pretty close to perfect in terms of size/weight.
with the diamond2 getting bigger and heavier, it's a big turnoff to me.
i had a choice of buying a north american diamond but did not as it's thicker and heavier.

Chainfire said:
Well, please start by opening this link in a new window:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1750&view=1
You can immediately see it is not as small or as cute as the original Diamond ( <3 !! )
It feels a bit 'stretched' in your hand when you are playing with it, don't have a better word to say it.
But the absolute worst part is the 'bottom of the front' as you can see in the picture. They gray/silvery part looks incredibly cheap/ugly IRL, and its just a waste of space with no function (they should have just made the thing a centimeter shorter).
Furthermore, between the small buttons above the silvery part and the touchscreen soft-buttons is a so called zoom-slider. It's hard to see in the picture on that page, but again this is a waste of space - and it looks really awkward too. While I imagine it could be handy while web-browsing (if it actually works, it didn't do anything on the demo models I played with), at least for me that isn't that important and I would have much preferred an on-screen zoom slider in the browser instead. Again, they could have made the thing another centimeter shorter.
It's just one hell of a butt-ugly phone (well ok it isn't as ugly as say, the G1, but it's nowhere near as sleek as the original Diamond and Touch Pro) and wastes space all over the place. It doesn't feel 'right' in your hand either.
Hope that explains it a bit.
Note that I just noticed the Rhodium has this frecking zoom slider as well... bah!
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Thanks for the insight. I'm really on the fence about 'upgrading'. I'm intrigued by the widescreen for maps/pictures/videos and the 5MP camera has also sparked my attention. The cam on the current Diamond is very good IMO and so I'm just figuring it will get even better on the D2. I use my phone a lot for pictures. I have the NAM version of the D1 so the D2 will actually be the same weight and a little thinner. But I do know what you mean about it being 'stretched'. I had an Imate 8502 and it was a narrow phone that was long. It felt very stretched in hand so that's going to be a factor for me. Loosing the dpad (even if the D1's is crappy) is another big downer.
I've actually been toying with buying a Samsung Omnia instead. $200 cheaper, same camera specs but with a flash, widescreen (although not VGA) and a mouse pointer to 'replace' the dpad. Who knows...

My provider gave me a Samsung Omnia for free and after using a widescreen device (yes, I know, WQVGA, not WVGA), the screen on the Diamond seems too small to use. I will personally be going with the Touch Pro2, not the Diamond2. This is mainly because of the bigger screen size as well as the keyboard, not to mention the decent speaker on it and flashlight.

Have anyone regretted buying HTC Diamond 2?

Any reason?
Because I'm planning to get one, looking for some feedbacks and advices.
Is in dilemma between HTC diamond 2 and HTC touch pro 2

Nope. LOVE IT!

Hi!
I can only speak for my self, but I totally love the device. If I had to choose a different device, it would have been the TouchHD, with one of the new cooked ROMs that almost makes the HD into a "large" diamond2
I guest that some would like a hardware keyboard, but after installing FingerKeyboard 2.1 the need for a HW keyboard is totally vanished.
Regards,
PK

I did regret initially when i got the device as i was moving from iphone. The sensitivity was an issue. But now i totally adore it.. So many mods, themes and apps available for diamond 2. I am so used to the phone now

Sheldon Cooper said:
Any reason?
Because I'm planning to get one, looking for some feedbacks and advices.
Is in dilemma between HTC diamond 2 and HTC touch pro 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i had the same dilema.
There are some pros and cons, from my p.o.v., regarding TP2, and the first is price. Does it worth 100 e. (at least)? Only for kb, no. For the screen, yes, but then we have THD, wich is bigger! What remains? Super-extra feature: conference bla-bla... no thanks, i don't need that. Anything else? Oh, camera... 5 vs. 3 Mp., so worse. And no radio.
One more: now vs. "soon".
I choose NOW.

No regrets here

Hi there,
I also love it! There is only one thing I miss from my former Kaiser and that's the Scroll-Wheel for "one-hand" usage just operated by the thumb.
I hope to get the Zoom-Bar replaced for scrolling, though.
Regards,
JTGBDR

Me tooshort battery life. soft speakers.even tweaks etc dont improve that much

Really love the improvement from the Diamond I had before. Some outstanding apps. og programs

No regrets here. Love it to death. Will make babies with it.

TD2 is the best yet from HTC IMO
LUV IT!

I must say I have no regrets buying my Diamond 2,
But there are some minor ignorances that I encountered,
But I am sure either HTC will fix them, Or you are able to tweak them.
The not so good radio reception (in some countries with some providers) will need a new radio by HTC
The not rotating applications can be fixed by a minor tweak aswell.
One thing I seriously can't stand is the incompatibility with games )
Like Guitar Hero 3, it installs great, but doesn't start (Trial by Microsoft)
Although I think if the developers of the game would put in some effort, It would work in no time.
But that's just my opinion
I hope that you enjoy whichever phone you buy
- Jeutie

no regrets at all.
Would buy it again. and again and again :-D

mokuni said:
No regrets here. Love it to death. Will make babies with it.
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Click to collapse
LOL, same here
However, this device is most suitable for POWER USERS (meaning: you love tweaking and installing new stuff on your device). If you need a phone for calling, SMS, e-mails and a little browsing, the iPhone 3G beats the diamond2 due to it's amazingly sensitive screen and UI.
Touch Pro2 is for business users. You get a keyboard, hence it's gigantic.

No regret at all, for me it is the best WM device at the moment, and currently I prefer WM over other mobile OS (do not like symbian, WebOs not here yet, Android not ready imho (and should be installable on the TD2 anyway), and I can not stand Apple policies (much more closed than microsoft starting from an opensource OS? yuck!)
I just have compared TD2 against HD, TD1, TP1 and Omnia this WeekEnd (visited a tech supermarket that add all the phones on demo to play with), and no question, the TD2 win hands down: best form factor, design and screen compared to the others. Some people may have other preferences, but the for me the TD2 hit the sweet spot: small enough, with a screen big enough and the highest resolution (and no need to go further - I would never have though to have to say it, being a resolution freak, but WVGA for 3.2 inches really is enough).
The things I would fix if I had to design the TD3 (HTC, are u hiring? ;-) ) would be more physical inputs (side wheel, more buttons, trackball maybe), slightly larger screen by reducing the borders, battery with higher capacity if possible keeping the device the same size, led flash (more for flashlight than for pics LOL), and digital compass.
Ho yes, and a different, scratch-resistant grippy back, with the possibility to use integrated flip screen cover à la Samsung Touchwiz ( http://www.letsgomobile.org/en/review/0076/samsung-f480/page3/ ). This is an excellent idea imho, the right balance between thin device and good screen protection...
And a proc that can record and play [email protected] H264 video without using more juice that the MSM7200a ;-)
Possible imho with the current technology at a price not much higher than the TD2, but then HTC would kill its upgrade revenues...
Waiting for this perfect device, the TD2 is the best approximation right now ;-)

Sheldon Cooper said:
Any reason?
Because I'm planning to get one, looking for some feedbacks and advices.
Is in dilemma between HTC diamond 2 and HTC touch pro 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love my Diamond2 - had it from the day it was released in the UK. Before, I had the S710 which was a great little device but was a bit too early, didn't have 3G. I went for the Diamond2 as I think I spend more time surfing, reading news etc. on it compared to typing. That said, because it's a much more usable device, I am finding myself typing more - especially as got internet email from work.
It would be perfect but I have the following little gripes:
I don't like the way you have to answer the phone by sliding the bar. I just can't get the hang of it and tend to end up cancelling the call.
I wish it had some form of flash - but the photos it does take when the light is good are excellent. The widescreen is an interesting mode
For some reason, it starts running really slowly after a while. For example, the rather cool animation effect when flipping through text messages becomes much slower. As does whizzing up and down the list of emails. I suspect this is a problem with Garmin XT as it does seem worse after using that program. Powering down and back on fixes it.
The battery takes a long time to charge when used in a cradle. The cradle has both USB power and data (I'm aware USB alone is slower charge). The device runs very hot during charging. When ActiveSync is running, it keeps the display/device running and I suspect it's discharging almost as fast as it's charging. Shame it can't run of pure mains power when plugged in and charge the battery separately.
There aren't enough cool apps to make it really complete with the iPhone! Where's the pouring beer and fishing game apps???
Cheers, Rob.

Some slight compatibility issues put aside (since I'm a total smartphone & ppc noob) I simply love this one!.
It does irritate me that some stuff really needs to be a special version (like coreplayer, which I've tried over and over again, but only the 1.2.5 buil 4506 would actualy install and run) But in the end, you only need one version anyway. Just hope it is the newest version....
It'll probably be fixe when new roms come out. Diamond 2 is quite a new piece on the edge...

mokuni said:
No regrets here. Love it to death. Will make babies with it.
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Click to collapse
No regrets at all. Absolutely love mine. I take mine on picnic lunches to the beach. Just me and the D2.

I've upgraded from Touch Diamond 1 and I have no regrets... Way better than TD1.

The only thing i miss is the metal frame and stylus off the Diamond 1

why did S/E avoid an Accelerometer in the X1??

Was that because the phone is fat?

I thing it's because they asked HTC to build the X1 for them. HTC made them believe it's better without g-sensor.

sms2000 said:
I thing it's because they asked HTC to build the X1 for them. HTC made them believe it's better without g-sensor.
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Click to collapse
But why? HTC own phones have g-sensor?

Euroman28 said:
But why? HTC own phones have g-sensor?
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becuz no one will buy htc phone anymore if X1 has g-sensor!!
The only advantage of htc phone now is only g-sensor

I think with the motherboards used in the HTC's and X1, there are only a certain number of ports available for add-ons such as acceleromenter. We got an optical mouse instead of the accelerometer.
They got TV-Out, we got stereo headphone jack.
I'm just speculating though.

We could have Optical Mouse and G-sensor switchable if so.
i thing it's a pure marketing decision for HTC to play this way. SonEr are in no more contacts with HTC. X2 is developed with someone else help...

sometimes they do it because of some technical limitations but if you ask me most of the times they do it on purpose for dirty political reasons.
most probably to leave some room for "improvement" of future models. why would people buy fthe x2 for $700-$800 if the x1 has everything
htc did that with tp2. they put some artificial limitations on the touch pro2 to make room tp3 next year. why else would they release it with a slow 528mhz cpu or flashless 3.2 camera and no 3.5mm jack or more
apple are even worse than htc with their ultra low resolution hvga screen, flashless 2mp camera (1 year after nokia released 5 MPexel cameras with flash ) and the many software limitations that will probably be activated in next year model
bottomline...if manufaturers think they will be able to sell a lot of devices, it makes sense to them to give it to you with as little features and hardware defecancies as possible. it makes too much scene as far as their current and future profit margins is concerned

in x1 case though. i think SE didnt include the the accelerometer because it was (x1) announced in feb08 and at the time, there was no windows phone that had or even announced that it would have accelerometer capability. the touch diamond and Omnia were the first devices to have it and both were released much later than feb 08. seems to me that it was an honest mistake or by se part

Because they want to milk us for more cash. If the x1 is perfect you will not have a reason to buy the X2.

if those pics are realy then noone is going to buy the X2 anyway
btw, i dont miss the G-sensor. had one in my n95 and disabled it cause the auto screenrotation roratet teh srcreens when i didnt want to. it was more anoying the usefull.
i'd rather have a compass so navigation turns more realtime.

Another reason could be that, at the time, there just wasn't enough WM software available to take advantge of an accelerometer. So what would be the point of adding one?

WhyBe said:
Another reason could be that, at the time, there just wasn't enough WM software available to take advantge of an accelerometer. So what would be the point of adding one?
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They could have added it and activated it later through updates.

Euroman28 said:
Was that because the phone is fat?
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Now what I am about to say...I think a lot of people on this forum will disagree on me....the removed it because it's a smart choice that accelerometer is an annoying feature and it takes hardware space.
I hate hate hate hate hate turning on the accelerometer so much! I'd rather have a button on the side of a phone to decide when to rotate the screen... all manufactures are too stupid to add a fast CPU and a switch button to prove to mankind that my idea is better than accelerometer.

poetryrocksalot said:
Now what I am about to say...I think a lot of people on this forum will disagree on me....the removed it because it's a smart choice that accelerometer is an annoying feature and it takes hardware space.
I hate hate hate hate hate turning on the accelerometer so much! I'd rather have a button on the side of a phone to decide when to rotate the screen... all manufactures are too stupid to add a fast CPU and a switch button to prove to mankind that my idea is better than accelerometer.
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Click to collapse
This I agree!
I'd turn it off on the day one..

It is good for games, but not much else lol.

Well, I would agree with the last three posts. I've never had a phone with accelerometer, but, that's been my thinking all along...what exactly is it good for beside games? As slow as WM is, I would be scared that my phone would lock up or crash if I turned it too many times.
If they manage to put one in the next X phone and have some software that really uses it to it's fullest potential, then I'm all for it.

The Diamond and Omnia had it so that the screen can rotate when the phone is held in landscape.
The X1 has a keyboard & senses when it's opened, so doesn't need an accelerometer for anything that important.
Suggesting they left it out so that they can sell more X2s is quite funny - honestly, who's going to buy an X2 just because it has an accelerometer?
Similar to all those complaining the Pro2 doesn't have a snapdragon (which no currently available phones have) + better camera + flash + 3.5mm socket + all the form factor benefits of the pro2, all for the same price as an HD. And apparently it's all a con so we can buy the pro3 next year!

THE GRIZZ said:
sometimes they do it because of some technical limitations but if you ask me most of the times they do it on purpose for dirty political reasons.
most probably to leave some room for "improvement" of future models. why would people buy fthe x2 for $700-$800 if the x1 has everything
htc did that with tp2. they put some artificial limitations on the touch pro2 to make room tp3 next year. why else would they release it with a slow 528mhz cpu or flashless 3.2 camera and no 3.5mm jack or more
apple are even worse than htc with their ultra low resolution hvga screen, flashless 2mp camera (1 year after nokia released 5 MPexel cameras with flash ) and the many software limitations that will probably be activated in next year model
bottomline...if manufaturers think they will be able to sell a lot of devices, it makes sense to them to give it to you with as little features and hardware defecancies as possible. it makes too much scene as far as their current and future profit margins is concerned
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I also thought, and it makes me so mad.....if only we could purchase customized phones the way we purchase customized computers/laptops or customize them ourselves, then we would totally get exactly what we want.
DavidMc0 said:
The Diamond and Omnia had it so that the screen can rotate when the phone is held in landscape.
The X1 has a keyboard & senses when it's opened, so doesn't need an accelerometer for anything that important.
Suggesting they left it out so that they can sell more X2s is quite funny - honestly, who's going to buy an X2 just because it has an accelerometer?
Similar to all those complaining the Pro2 doesn't have a snapdragon (which no currently available phones have) + better camera + flash + 3.5mm socket + all the form factor benefits of the pro2, all for the same price as an HD. And apparently it's all a con so we can buy the pro3 next year!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So if you were a marketing and economic advisor for your company, you'd tell the asking company that it would be a wiser choice to put everything in all at once? That's a waste. You have to understand that what you say is correct, but for an economic it is correct if in terms of services. Services typically strive to do better than other people who provide the same service, no matter what. Goods are a little bit different than service, in which as long as other companies set margins to what their device provide, then the company will also set margins as well. Now we aren't talking about eBay crap or haggling, so the end result is an expected increase in real profit.

DavidMc0 said:
Suggesting they left it out so that they can sell more X2s is quite funny - honestly, who's going to buy an X2 just because it has an accelerometer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You would be surprised.

doministry said:
This I agree!
I'd turn it off on the day one..
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Can't I turn it off at day zero?!
Totally agree with you, tried a phone with accelerator and didn't like it... I just see no real use of it (apart from games)