Related
Hello,
I wrote many posts about my disapointment on the Kaiser performances, but this one will surely be the last one, I'm gonna sell my Kaiser.
At first, I thought I had to just get used to it, but after about 20 days of use, I definitly just CANNOT get use to it !
It may be a good device for phone, email, GPS, all kind of serious work; but about the entertainment, it is a bad device from my point of view :
- it can't play VGA videos with a good frame rate : we all know the driver "not existing" problem. But when you pay the high price for this device, you also pay for the Qualcomm processor, wich in the case of the Kaiser does not give you all it should !!!
Also I noticed that displaying streaming videos from the web was slower than on my old HTC Universal (wich is one of the slower HTC machine about displaying videos because it is a VGA device with no hardware accelerator).
- games and emulators run slower than on my HTC Prophet device (wich is overclocked at 240 Mhz where my Kaiser runs at 380 Mhz !) : it's for real, I just tested again many games and emulators and the frame rate is better on the HTC Prophet.
- the pad isn't good for gaming (because of its shape) : the horizontal size of it is too big compared to the vertical size. So when you play fast action games, you need to move your finger from one side of the D-pad to the other side (on the horizontal side), you can't leave your finger on the D-pad. So you loose time when using the D-pad, I don't know if what I say is clear enough ... Also, in fast action games, when pressing the left side of the D-pad, if I press it too firmly, I can feel the screen moving a little bit, just like if I wanted to open the hardware keyboard.
The buttons around the pad are too small. Many times, when playing, I press two buttons at the same time instead of just one.
From my point of view, it is the worst Pocket PC I had to play games (I had a Casio EM505, Ipaq 1930, Dell Axim X50v, HTC Prophet ...).
To try to improve the performances, I tried many tweaks given by you guys on this forum (thanks for that), it worked for some things but only partially, unfortunatly not enough to make me think that my Kaiser has a decent speed.
I know the Kaiser is not a gaming machine, but it is hard to accept these performances problems when you know that most of the other HTC machines, with lower prices, run faster !!! It is really a shame that HTC didn't make any driver to just use the power of the Qualcomm processor, but they let us pay for it !!!
Along with these performances problems, I'm also disapointed about the overall finish quality of this device :
- the d-pad looseness : I hate to feel the buttons and the pad moving under my fingers.
- it's made of plastic, compared to my Prophet wich is made of metal, I feel the need to protect my Kaiser with a good cover, wich increase the size it takes in my pocket (where my Prophet just had no protection).
- the power on button is not in a good position : too close from the screen and not enough sticking, so many times I push the screen while pressing it, and I also need to always look at my Kaiser and search for the button to power it on or off. Someone in this forum gave a solution for that, where we put 3D paint on the button, but seriously, doing that on a device of this price, it's a shame again !
- the weight : the Kaiser is about twice heavier than my Prophet (well, it is my feeling). But it is hard to blame HTC on this because the Kaiser has so many things inside, could they do better ? I'm not sure.
- the micro-sd door make me feel like it could break very easily.
- the keyboard : all keys does not give the same feeling when pressing them, so I always have to look at the screen while typing to be sure the key I pressed is really pressed or is not pressed twice. I thought I could get use to it, but after 20 days of use, I just say "no !". I tried the keyboard of the TYTN (the old one, the TYTN 1) of one of my friend, and it is really better ! Also the space bar gives two clicks when you press it (strange feeling) where the TYTN space bar gives only one (wich is better).
- the camera : I took a few pictures, and as on many pocketpc/phone, from my point of view the quality just make me think it's a gadget again, but about that I don't really care because I just don't need it (but again, I paid for it).
Still there ? Did you read all I wrote ? How brave you are !
The only good part I like on the Kaiser is the GPS, it's working very well.
It may also be good as a phone, but I didn't use it yet so let's say it's good (everyone say so).
So I took the decision to sell it, and maybe wait for the "TYTN III"
But for the next one, I guess I'll wait more before buying it for other people to give a lot more opinions. Now I also have a 6GB micro-sd to sell (one week old !), I will lose money but that will make me feel happier !
How much do you want for thsi pile of trash?
dizzy33 said:
Still there ? Did you read all I wrote ? How brave you are !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure I have and I also link to this really informative thread from the "official" threads.
CARD
how much for the card!
I posted something similar yesterday and I have moved it here:
I went from the i-mate JASJAM (TyTN) to the TyTN II, and below are part of something I posted on another site:
New annoyances with TyTN II, issues I didn't have with the JASJAM:
1. Playing MP4 videos in PMP10; sound and video out of sync.
2. Occasional sluggishness (CPU not enough?).
3. Screen sometimes doesn't react to tapping if screen tapping sounds are enabled or if using other apps which gives sound feedback, like Bubble Breaker.
4. Poor quality Bluetooth audio for handsfree phone calls, similar to what you get with two tin cans and a string.
5. If you're right-handed and slide out the keyboard, then need to use the stylus, you have to perform some minor acrobatics to get it out from the left side. Be careful not to drop the phone!!!
6. A GPS device with a transmissive screen? HTC hopes that everyone will be using the GPS indoors? JASJAM's screen was transflective but probably because of the lack of GPS
7. Night mode in the camera can not be switched on or off manually. The camera will decide when night mode is required, and this is the case even when strong fluorescent light is available, making it impossible to use the camera hand-held indoors.
8. The camera takes all photos in portrait mode. You have to hack the registry to make it switch to landscape mode.
Of the above points, I hope the first four could be solved if HTC would ever release ROM updates.
And HTC: WTF is "USB 2.0 Full Speed"??!?! You're trying to deceive customers? Full speed (12Mbps) is USB 1.1!!! USB 2.0 gives High Speed, which is 480Mbps, which of course the TyTN II doesn't support.
To add something positive about the TyTN II:
- Keyboard is much nicer. It gives more feeling of quality than the cheap metal dome calculator keys the JASJAM had. The TyTN II's keyboard is probably the same, but they have managed to improve the "feel".
- A2DP! Using my SE DS970 headset, sound quality is very good. Not with PMP10 though. I'm using PocketMusic which gives something similar to SE's MegaBass.
- I love the case! Mocha leather feel and that ultra-soft velcro flap gives an almost naughty feeling to it
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
- The 3MP camera is very good, although the 2MP in the JASJAM was also very good (with the right settings) and the increase in megapixels doesn't give the corresponding increase in photo quality. TyTN II photos are just a little better.
I could perhaps recommend the TyTN II to new users. But I would definitely not recommend upgrading from TyTN (JASJAM). Better buy a Bluetooth GPS, if this functionality is what you miss on the TyTN. If you need faster than 1.8 Mbps HSDPA, then choose another phone. Maybe the E90?
Dizzy: You have posted a well structured critical posting for you opinions of the kaiser and I can only say that I am sorry it does not work out for you.
I have the T-Mobile version of the TyTN II and I do not have the problems you have with the keys moving about (its the only version that's different) the d-pad is the same size top,bottom, left and right and for most part i have not had any problems with the rendering of divx movies on my device (I use pocket divx encoder to convert the films (films are 250mb)) as for games I have a few 3d based games like tiger woods and need for speed and they seem to play better on the kaiser than they did on the wizard even when that was overclocked with omapclock.
For the rest of the niggles you and others have mentioned, your right that we should not have to put up with them but there is not too much of a problem to work round them (software or firmware) so in time I'm sure we will fix a lot of the problems that HTC should have fixed but have not.
It might be worth leaving it a while and see what happens and perhaps buy a UK T-Mobile one later when other things are fixed?
Russ
Deathace said:
Dizzy: You have posted a well structured critical posting for you opinions of the kaiser and I can only say that I am sorry it does not work out for you.
I have the T-Mobile version of the TyTN II and I do not have the problems you have with the keys moving about (its the only version that's different) the d-pad is the same size top,bottom, left and right and for most part i have not had any problems with the rendering of divx movies on my device (I use pocket divx encoder to convert the films (films are 250mb)) as for games I have a few 3d based games like tiger woods and need for speed and they seem to play better on the kaiser than they did on the wizard even when that was overclocked with omapclock.
For the rest of the niggles you and others have mentioned, your right that we should not have to put up with them but there is not too much of a problem to work round them (software or firmware) so in time I'm sure we will fix a lot of the problems that HTC should have fixed but have not.
It might be worth leaving it a while and see what happens and perhaps buy a UK T-Mobile one later when other things are fixed?
Russ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About the DivX file reading, yes you can read them if you encoded it with pocketdivx, you're right. Actually, you can do that with any pocketpc on the market, even with the cheapest one. But my problem is that when you look at the Qualcomm capabilities, you see that it should read VGA videos, without the need to convert them (my good old Axim X50V could do that, and it is now about 4 years old !). It would be, from my point of view, a lot more interesting if we could directly put the divx file into the Kaiser without having to convert it to some format each time. As we know, it's all the fault of HTC wich did not make the drivers to give the Qualcomm capabilities to us, but, again, we paid for it !!!!!!!
Like you said, maybe I should give more time to my Kaiser, maybe someone (of course not an HTC people) will program the drivers for us, but it's all "maybe", and if I don't want to lose much money on my Kaiser, the sooner I sell it, the better it is.
I would really like to ear someone saying "hey, a driver to use the Qualcomm capabilities will be out soon", I would then really give more time to my Kaiser, but for now the only thing we have is the petition, and I guess HTC will not listen to us. Why would they ? So many people are using it only for its professionnal use (phone/GPS/emails etc...), I think they will not listen to 2000 people (if we are !), when the device is sold to something like dozens of thousand people, and I may be far from the real count.
I would definitly prefere to keep it, but it does not fit all my needs unfortunatly.
I would like to advise future buyers of this device that it is not as perfect as we can read in the reviews. If it's for a strictly professional use, it may be OK, but for entertainment, my advise would be "buy something else !".
dizzy33 said:
As we know, it's all the fault of HTC wich did not make the drivers to give the Qualcomm capabilities to us, but, again, we paid for it !!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the main reason that my next phone will not be a HTC phone. The obviously poor quality of the Video in a "premium" product means that when I am "able" to upgrade my handset, it wont be HTC.
Phones like the LG Viewty and even the iPhone put this pile-of-crap to shame not obly for video and audio, but in the case of the Viewty for Camera quality.
I gave up on using the camera on my Kaiser/VarioIII within a week. The usability of the camera is poor (to juddery)
Menneisyys said:
Sure I have and I also link to this really informative thread from the "official" threads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot !
Hey, if you think Kaiser is bad, then have a look at Eten X800. Check-out their forum, and then you'll find out what's really bad.
Bottom line is Kaiser is very usable, whereas the X800 is not usable at all, isn't that the first thing that counts, even before looking at feature and function?
I will also sell Kaiser ... once I got a similiar replacement (probably Imate Ultimate 9502?).
I agree, for entertainment, Kaiser is the worst HTC product!
I for one like this better than the TYTN. For one thing, spring-loaded keyboard sold me to it. I hated how the TYTN keyboard gets loose after several uses. I must've replaced it 3-4 times under warranty. All of them turned out the same and when i finally dropped the phone due to mishandling caused by the looseness of the keyboard, that was it.... My only main gripe is the power button that i wished they somewhat elevated and what everyone is complaining about and that is the video driver support. But i'll give it time since it just came out less than a month or 2 ago. Then the GPS, 3mp camera are just little extras that made me want it some more.
Thanks for this initial post...
I've come to the same conclusions WITHOUT even buying the kaiser which was supposed to become my first smartphone.
In a nutshell: I'm not buying anything Qualcomm...I'd rather wait for a google phone and I think I'd feel more comfortable if it had an nvidia goforce chip in it.
See you in Q3 2008 for these new htc phones and I guess I'll just get shoes for christmas
the-uki said:
Bottom line is Kaiser is very usable, whereas the X800 is not usable at all, isn't that the first thing that counts, even before looking at feature and function?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. But Kaiser has so more untaped potential it's really frustrating HTC/Qualcomm gimped their hardware support.
It's also very shortsighted as HTC will be using the qualcomm platform for many products to come, and the kaiser "botch", when it will reach enough exposure, will certainly dent their sales.
coincoinlapin said:
Thanks for this initial post...
I've come to the same conclusions WITHOUT even buying the kaiser which was supposed to become my first smartphone.
In a nutshell: I'm not buying anything Qualcomm...I'd rather wait for a google phone and I think I'd feel more comfortable if it had an nvidia goforce chip in it.
See you in Q3 2008 for these new htc phones and I guess I'll just get shoes for christmas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, the irony... The first Android phone (google phone) has a Qualcomm chip in it
it plays games?
the-uki said:
Hey, if you think Kaiser is bad, then have a look at Eten X800. Check-out their forum, and then you'll find out what's really bad.
Bottom line is Kaiser is very usable, whereas the X800 is not usable at all, isn't that the first thing that counts, even before looking at feature and function?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I don't care about the fact that some other devices are worst. This does not make me like more my own device. The Kaiser problems are still there.
The main gripe with the Kaiser is speed. I hope that some day soon a clever bunny writes an Omap type app that'll overclock the Qualcomm. This, I'm sure, will make the device very usable.
If only I was the clever bunny.
sounds like you want a PSP rather than a phone
RPG0 said:
Hehe, the irony... The first Android phone (google phone) has a Qualcomm chip in it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you already have specs for the first htc gphone??
OK, rather than hijack a thread, this is what I posted last night in the class action thread:
Steve-C said:
What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These were the responses:
forcedalias said:
So, are you saying that just because it's business-oriented, its camera should continue to suffer from video driver issues? That it should be slower to process anything with some graphics in it, business-related, entertainment or otherwise?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
omikr0n said:
GPS, email, office - fine.
Web browsing - not at all - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qbaDLzOU_Y
Syncing - fine, except mine disconnects randomly when connected via bluetooth
Movies - I haven't seen a single movie playing fluently on TyTN II
Is this really acceptable for you? Especially for such expensive device? I paid nearly $1000 for device that my 5 (!) year old iPaq h2210 can easily outperform at ANYTHING?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never understood the driver issues, as I haven't witnessed them. Looking at the YouTube video posted, that is very worrying, but I would like to know how were such poor results achieved?
This is my Kaiser (running the stock o2 ROM). Firstly it shows a video being played on my laptop, second the same section of the same video on my Kaiser. Then a web page in PIE, followed by a bit of surfing on Opera. From my video, it seems to perform just fine. So am I just really lucky, or am I missing something?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrHwG6xpc-E
Nope I get the same results.
Well, i dont have big issues with movies.
However, i notice a lot of "lag" effects sometimes when scrolling. Of course installed the scrolling fix for IE, which makes it far better, but still, there is interface lag.
This lag is easily noticeable when you try to close an app and need to point your stylus like 3 or 4 times on the top right X before anything appears.
Also noticeable when you scroll in the "programs" window , interface lag, the scrolling is bad, really... The icons in the programs windows look like they disappear (this part of the screen becomes totally blank/white) then half-reappear then disappear etc... It is UGLY. When scrolling in program window, what should be SEEN would be real scrolling icons, fluid and all ! It should be nice, fluid, and shouldnt look like the screen refresh is 1 frame / second.
With such a processor and the included ATI thingy i would have thought of a faster interface avoiding such lag tbh.
The Stargate video that you're showing on your tilt in your video, did you conver that first?
If not, I'd like to know the stats on the video. Whats the resolution, file size, etc.
I've copied music videos to my phone and they play like crap. I had to spend $30 on conversion software and wait for the media to be converted down before I was able to watch anything.
Stargate Atlantis episodes that are 350mb take a long time to convert. To me it's a waste of time. I'd rather have a fully functional device with proper video support. Software rendering makes the screen draw slow and makes the device lag.
So, have you copied any video files at all to your phone and had them not play correctly? Or are you saying that every video you've tried has worked fine?
That has NOT been my experience. I have to convert everything to 320x240 at 640 bitrate before my phone will play video smoothly.
There is no need to argue, the phone is capable of doing more, why not just face the fact.. If it can do more, what's the use on arguing "its already good enough??" No its not, the camera is the worse thing ive ever seen.
Dont get me wrong, the phone is great. I love it. The reception is the best ive ever seen.. But we just want them to correct the video driver issue, that is all. Its not harming you... is it? No need to drunk rant ..
Oh and by the way, technology is supposed to improve, the phone is an upgrade. Did it upgrade? No. I see no improvements..
Oh wait!, we got GPS .. I'll give you that.. Even then the GPS takes like 20 minutes to find a satallite. but it is great once its up and running.
I WOULD like to be able to turn on the eye candy and not destroy the usability of my device... even for business purposes
As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
So I tried surfing a bit on the web. I run a website and I wanted to check my bak account.
What I noticed was that as soon as I visited a "non-Mobile" website everything slowed down. Scrolling takes forever, and also simply rendering the page takes "too" long.
The mobile pages of my service provider works like a charm, but that's a no brainer seeing as they are meant to work on everything from the cheapest 50 dollar phones and up.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
oh yeah, PS I'm also pretty irritated by the lag that you get when you put the phone in landscape mode or vice versa. And the slight lag that happens when you start programs (you can actually see how the device renders in approx 10-20 lines at a time) it's not a deal breaker but I certainly expected more, especially since I've used similar phones using both pal, symbian and windows mobile and other OSes (even really cheap ones) that don't exhibit the same symptoms.
Still it's only a minor gripe...
The page you shown doesn't prove anything, it is contains for too less content. Try open forum.xda-developers.com you'll see the huge lag...
undac said:
As the video seems to be really low res (QVGA at most) it should work, (we don't know about the bitrate but I'm assuming it's fairly low too).
Most of us who are complaining want a seamless experience. Ie we want to watch the regular videos we want on our computers on our mobile device.
IE scrolling seems nice enough, that seems to differ a bit between ROMs.
I can just share my experience from strart to "finish":
I read up on what device to get. Kaiser was very much hyped at the time. I took the time to read their webpage where they claim that the phone is "more powerful than any other mobile communicator". The same text says that the device is equally good for business and pleasure. It also reccomends using it for gaming:
http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_tytn_II.htm
"More powerful than any mobile communications device you've seen before"
"perfectly for reading and creating e-mails, using applications, or even just playing games."
"Always ready for business - and pleasure"
I also took the time to check out the MSM7200 processor and what that was all about.
Now my primary focus is business. I wanted Office Mobile and a nice contact manager etc. I have no gripes there.
The problem started showing up when I came to the gaming/pleaasure part.
I tried dragging and dropping some TV shows (700kbps 512x384 res) and the playback is prety lousy.
So I went out and bought CorePlayer for 25 bucks. First result was even worse. So then I figured out that I actually had to turn off the standard Windows Mobile rendering interface called DirectDraw. Seemed strange enough as this is THE standard interface for drawing video on a windows mobile device. With a lot of tweaking I got semi acceptable playback in the end.
A day later I started playing around with the camera. It took me about five seconds to realize that it was utterly flawed. Shutter speed (or rather the processing speed) makes the delay from the point where you click the button to where the picture is taken was so slow that none of my pictures came out right.
It's also exceedingly difficult to use the viewfinder seeing as it runs at less than 5 fps and with extreme blur.
Capturing video was also a downer. Instead of the 30 fps @ VGA resolution that the chipset touts I'm getting 10-15 fps and I might add that to me it looks like it's even less than that. Utterly unwatchable.
So ok, video playback and the camera was pretty awful. But as I said I mainly intended to use this for business so I didn't think much more of it.
Then came the weekend. I was off to some friends that live out in the country. I had to go there by train.
So "hey, great time to load it up with some games".
Some of the games I've heard of was legend of steel and call of duty 2.
Well call of duty 2 was just as mess, with no open gl support.
legend works pretty well unless you actually try to play the game. As soon as the stylus hits that screen everything start going in slow motion.
I resorted to playing bubble breaker and tetris for the trip.
By this time I was pretty annoyed since my 3 year old Sony Ericsson el cheapo 3G-phone gave me a much better gaming experience than this.
So then I resorted to emulators. I really wanted to try out some nice emulating but again, performance was too low.
I didn't expect the TyTN II to be a Playstation Portable challenger but I didn't expect it to be just a typing machine with a calendar attached to it either.
I found this forum and surely enough I found out about the lack of drivers and everything suddenly made sense.
And the thing that bugs me the most about this is that the drivers are readily available to HTC, they just choose not to provide them to us.
So personally I'm a bit pissed off and I surely won't consider HTC a first hand alternative the next time I go shopping for a new PDA phone.
/Scincerele signed "Business users who expected more"
there you go (actually a true story even though a made it cheesy on purpose. )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said!!! This is why I left sprint. I got the Mogul, was advertised GPS when it came out. Well to this date, they are waiting for a "rom update".
woo, we really don't need to go into this because by token of that same logic:
Your computer is a business tool, not an entertainment device.
Your car is a business tool and necessity. You don't need a cd player or radio.
etc. etc.
Now why is this a big issue? Because it was false advertising. Because what we bought wasn't just a big mac and some fries. And because what we bought wasn't worth $15. What we bought was worth more than $500 US. What we bought was a device that could do everything and more. Like a car, you didn't just buy it for business, but for pleasure. And to falsely advertise and prey on the good faith of us consumers isn't just bad. It's criminal.
The point is, even if you consider that the TyTN II a business phone and don't care about it preforming way below it's possibilities, the other HTC devices based on the MSM7200 and MSM7500 chipsets, like the Touch Dual and Touch Cruise, which suffer from the same problems, are certainly meant for 'fun user', not 'business user'. And their PREDECESSORS did all of this fine.
So everything you said is still BS.
The youtube Video demonstrates the Kaiser PIE Scroll bug issue, not the Video driver issue btw. That bug was fixed here. Most cooked ROMs now incorporate the fix.
Yes this will be corrected on the site (the GDI video is way better for demonstration anyway, too bad it's not a comparison).. and the new support reports will be added. But if you ask me this is just a distraction. They know full well what the problem is, this is just to give the illusion they really didn't know, and are trying to figure it out, so they can say it really wasn't their fault. They're just acting out a play.
Really, the responce changing not 24 hours after the sites were launched (and they were informed of this, after all) and only 2 or 3 hours after a fairly large tech site frontpaged it? That is not a coincidence.
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Scott_F said:
I have an ipod touch for entertainment. Kaiser for work/travel. Best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Kaiser which has the power to do both. Too bad it doesn't. By the way, since you seem to be such a huge fan of having multiple devices for doing multiple things, you should probably sell that Kaiser to get a flip phone, buy a PDA, get yourself a dedicated GPS receiver, and a Walkman radio, since having an all-in-one would be far too much integration for you.
Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome.
I bout my Tilt for 588 USD, totally ignoring my upgrade date, with the hopes that i would no longer need two devices. Until they fix the issue, making the device into what I thought I was buying, I will continue to be pissed about this.
this phone is not a graphics device? have you ever seen the datasheet of the MSM2700? THAT WAS THE REASON FOR I GOT MY KAISER!! (and the keyboard)
Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just because he has something made by Apple, doesn't mean it's time to talk ****. I personally don't like apple, but they have created some innovative features for the smart phone world.
Nick Collision said:
You are an idiot with way too much money and time to spend on two inferior products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont need to insult people because they have different opinion on something.
Should i wait for Touch pro or just get Diamond?
The specifcation for Touch pro is definately what i'm looking for except "keyboard" and "size"
However, Diamonds has no externmal memory, and flash.
Now i'm really confuse, wheter to wait for Tocuh pro to release or just get diamond now
Many review say this diamond is very interesting.
Thanks for the advice.
If you don't want the keyboard, or the bloated size, then the Diamond's the one to choose.
You can always manage files to keep within the 4gb. You can't leave half the Pro at home when you don't want the size issue.
Kevin
Yep. Get the Diamond. 4GB is more than enough for most people, and a lack of flash will just mean some of your pictures will be lower quality. Meanwhile the extra size and keyboard problems would be considerably harder to solve - you can't compress the phone, but you can compress files!
Keyboard vs no Keyboard should be the main deciding factor.
Memory would then be secondary as the TD DOES have 4gb still...
To be honest I'm gonna miss the qwerty keyboard on this device, but when I sum up the positive and negative sides from both pda's I personally think you're better off with the diamond if you're an avarage user. To sum my (most important) opinions:
Keyboard:
I think the keyboard is very handy, but I don't like the thickness of the Touch Pro. At the moment I have a MDA Vario (wizard). Great device (for it's time) but it's just too gigantic imo. When you look at the new software keyboard it looks like it works like a charm (by the way, does anyone have real experience with it?) and makes the keyboard look very depricated imo.
Memory/SD:
Yeah, upgradable can be very handy. But if you look at the Diamond specs.. I mean, 4 gig.. Isn't that just enough for a phone/pda?
By the way. It's mentioned nowhere that the Diamond has a better VGA screen. While the touch pro displays 65.536 colours, the diamond displays 262.144 colours. More the reason to choose the diamond for me!
Totally agree.
moving from Excalibur to Diamond was quite a challenge for me personaly.
I miss my easy texting on hardware qwerty keyboard I like new touchflo but as soon as Touch Pro is out, I will be switching to Rafael. Diamond is great though. Just not my cup of tea
WorldIRC said:
Keyboard vs no Keyboard should be the main deciding factor.
Memory would then be secondary as the TD DOES have 4gb still...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I currently use Artemis,
Actually Touch pro size is not so different from Artemis
Touch Pro: 102 mm (L) X 51 mm (W) X 18.05 mm (T)
Artemis: 108 mm (L) X 58 mm (W) X 16.8 mm (T)
Only 1.25 MM. thicker
However, still i never used any keyboard phone
XDA Mini--> Atom--> Prophet --> Artemis ---> ???
Just wonder, if i keep on Diamond.. is will be the same feeling
I have no conclusion yet, Thanks
geeMc said:
By the way. It's mentioned nowhere that the Diamond has a better VGA screen. While the touch pro displays 65.536 colours, the diamond displays 262.144 colours. More the reason to choose the diamond for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you find this info? This and this state the opposite...
And then, this is like the fifth thread about that. Let's try to keep it all in one place. Anyways, my opinion...
demonizator said:
Where did you find this info? This and this state the opposite...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your second 'this' was meant to be this.
And PDAdb has had inaccurate information in the past, so maybe... *crosses fingers in hope of better screen on Touch Diamond*
Dark Fire said:
I think your second 'this' was meant to be this.
And PDAdb has had inaccurate information in the past, so maybe... *crosses fingers in hope of better screen on Touch Diamond*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops, sorry bout that.
Well since Diamond is already out can somebody confirm if it's a 65k or 262k? Although it's the first time I hear about this difference and afaik 262k is not native for WM devices.
is the Pro 288 MB RAM vs diamond 192MB RAM
I live with my hermes more than 2 years so the size is not the problem (IMO no phone could beat the hermes (Iphone, Kaiser...) but the Touch pro is the killer)
demonizator said:
Oops, sorry bout that.
Well since Diamond is already out can somebody confirm if it's a 65k or 262k? Although it's the first time I hear about this difference and afaik 262k is not native for WM devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I was kinda hoping that it would be true. I'll show you the sources:
http://www.gsmhelpdesk.nl/read.php?id=2917&ch=1 (newsarticle, in dutch)
http://www.gsmhelpdesk.nl/specs.php?id=2521 (spec page diamond)
http://www.gsmhelpdesk.nl/specs.php?id=2522 (spec page raphael)
I assumed these were the right specifications, but hey, you made me doubt myself .
Wouldn't count on that. I guess it's the only site stating that. Check this too. It's absolutely the same display.
http://samsungomnia.com/
Guys this thing is Diamond killer..
firstime911 said:
http://samsungomnia.com/
Guys this thing is Diamond killer..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the moste important fact for me was the vga resolution on the diamond, the samsung has only a 240x400 resolution...
thats more like a killer armed with a watergun
I have to agree with chaos42. While the Samsung is a slick device, resolution is a HUGE deal. Once you go VGA, you can't go back. Of course, WVGA would be nice...
Also, it looks like the TD is somewhat significantly smaller... Also a huge deal. I love having a phone that does so much more than an iPhone AND is smaller...
Dark Fire said:
Meanwhile the extra size and keyboard problems would be considerably harder to solve - you can't compress the phone, but you can compress files!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm only just getting onto the whole TP idea (afte considering an Xperia), but I'm currently on a Nokia N95 which is 99 x 53 x 21. The TP/Raphael is 102 x 51 x 18...so for me it'll be smaller!!
See, when you compare an N95, which although big, is a great device, yet still easy enough to put in one hand, you can see that the Pro really isn't huge...
And compared to the old HTC Universal, they're ALL teeny tiny. And compared to my truck - I could carry around a phone-booth and it would be small. I can't think of any phones that wouldn't "fit in a hand". The quest for ever-smaller devices is more about what fits in your pockets than your hand, and to that point - I have found that anything with a physical keyboard is going to be too big.
And my athena too It's tiny compared to that
With regard to video performance etc which HTC refuse to address?
No (filler)
Hi thanks....but what does (filler) mean?
pachjo said:
Hi thanks....but what does (filler) mean?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hihi this means that he has to fill his sentense because the minimum lenght of a message is 6 (?) characters...
he also could have written: no my friend...
LOL thanks dude.
I am thinking about going against my better judgement and ditching the TyTnII and selling it then upgrading to a contract to get the diamond.
I like the HTC devices and would gladly keep the TyTnii but the performance is annoying me as I know although acceptable knowing it could do better ......
well ya know
Yeah sorry mate, could have been a bit politer. And it was to add more characters like he said. I think the minimum is 10.
Rory
lo no worries
I hope I'm not too late, because you'll regret it if you dump your Kaiser for the Diamond over video performance.
See this thread for benchmarking details:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=397478
Playing the same video, the Diamond was only able to match the HTC Touch's performance. The Touch has the same processor and video issues as the Kaiser. The diamond was almost 30% slower than a 3 year old 6700 running at 416mhz.
Edit: I was also told that this website had done prior benchmarking to verify that while the Diamond featured some video improvements over the Touch and Kaiser, they weren't significant overall.
I like the diamond, but I wouldn't ditch my tytn II for it just yet unless you have plenty of $$$, wait for the diamond pro and reconsider.
-mix
Thanks for the info! I was toying with the idea of getting a diamond as the tytnII perfromance does niggle me.
But I have been reading a lot on this site and am now being drawn to having a go at flashing my tytnII ..... after I have thoroughly read what I need to first of course!
The Touch Diamond doesn't seem to be even close to for example Samsung i780 video performance, so I'd say that it still has some sort of video performance issues, if not the same as the TyTN II has.
Although I like the Touch Diamond, I think that HTC rushed things with this unit and it DEFINETELY isn't the 530 EUR worth I paid for.
I bought a SE C902 for 350 EUR one week earlier and although this is no WM device and I can't install many third party programs(just java stuff), the performance and especially the camera of the C902 are really very very good. Yes, the Touch Diamond looks better but the C902 is even slightly thinner and less wide, not to forget about the mentioned absolutely GREAT picture quality/speed of the 5MP camera.
Don't forget the Diamond has four times the number of pixels to drive compared to the TyTN II...
snoopstah said:
Don't forget the Diamond has four times the number of pixels to drive compared to the TyTN II...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so? you still wouldn't get better performance out of it. Same driver issues.
About HD7 and WP7, quick review.
Positive HTC HD7:
. The device is awesome, fast, slim, the 4.3” high resolution screen is really epic and it feels really good when holding it in your hands. It makes you wanna have sex with it.
. The device materials quality is over my expectations
. Auto focus and dual LED flash working great
. Gsensor, proximity, and ambient light Sensor fast and reliable
Negative HTC HD7:
. Internal storage: 8 GB (Europe), I just hope we can upgrate it soon
. Battery drains a lot. it seems that battery manufacters are not keeping the pace. I recommend to disable all automatic updates and dont use 3G.
Positive Microsoft WP7:
. Really a clean OS fast and very responsive.
. The Hubs and animated tiles layout is very simple and fun to use.
. Social integration is a awesome feature and well worked by Microsoft (but it may be a little confusing for newbs.
. The boot sequence is the faster I ever seen.
Negative Microsoft WP7:
. Marketplace and Zune not available for all regions (you need to create a windows live account in a Region like UK for example).
. Lack of Customization
Bottom line:
WP7 is a kind of fresh air in the mobile world, a different approach with easy-to-use interface focused in integration of features and social network. Its fast, clean, intuitive, full of people-centric features with memory management like no other OS. Overall is has unbeatable perfomance.
Metro UI it is not just a app launcher, it has live tiles and not that sea of the same old and boring icons. The touch responsiveness is awesome and the short transitions between applications is the best experience I ever had.
The WP7 keyboard is clean , the mail experience is solid, IE9 is fast, the Office integration make WP7 impossible to ignore for serious business users, terrific Zune and Xbox Live integration with beautiful and useful user interface. All of these features are as simple and clean as the rest of the OS.
A kid can use it, a grown up can use it, a elderly can use it.
WP7 its still a work in progress and yes there is a lot of features missing but since it is just one year old, you can wait and live without it. The most important is that what we have now does not break, crash or lag. It works perfectly and smooth. Bottom line, you love it or you hate it.
In my case, I Love Windows Phone.
EDIT:
My Rate so far: 8.5/10
Thats all.
dot
Hm, have not had any issue with the hubs. Agree on battery life, it is pretty weak so far. I've done multiple drains as well.
I'm pretty torn on the HD7 myself. On the one hand it's probably the best-looking handheld device I've ever owned. Hardware is just excellent and feels great in the hand. But the more I look at the screen the more I realize how poor it is. Colors are very washed out. My 1st gen iPod touch has better brightness, contrast and saturation than this screen. HTC could have done better here.
Would you say the battery last longer same or shorter then HD2?
I find the HD7 to be the best looking of all the WP7 phones yet released. I love the black chrome surround and the silver mesh inserts at each end of the front face. I also found ou t those mesh inserts conduct sound from the rear speaker. That is a plus, rather than just being there for looks.I love the high quality kickstand also. The HD7 combines all the best elements of the HD2 and Evo in a much prettier package.
My HD7 works flawlessly...signal and fit and finish as well. The screen is unblemished and the display is colorful and bright. I love the chrome buttons and I especially love the dual level camera button.
WP7 is, to me, the best mobile OS ever released. It is superbly smooth, uncluttered and efficient. It lacks features right now but, similar to the iPhone's lack of features, WP7 will evolve into the most successful mobile OS ever produced...my opinion.
Taking into consideration the nature of the system and how it will evolve, I give WP7 a 9 out of 10. I have experienced some minor bugs. Otherwise I would give it a 10/10
I love my hd7 to , real good build quality and O2 German version has 16 GB in it
I hate sound quality in HD7. There is absolute no bass if you use the included headphones or buildin speaker. As far as I know there is also no other headphones that have compatible control. Also the mic should be at the level of mouth or a little lower, but not at the chest level.
nesher said:
I hate sound quality in HD7. There is absolute no bass if you use the included headphones or buildin speaker. As far as I know there is also no other headphones that have compatible control. Also the mic should be at the level of mouth or a little lower, but not at the chest level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the HD2 included head set also has the mouth piece way low, like they designed it for the indigenous people who stretch out their necks, never made sense to me on that one.
Nice thread, I will wait for more comments before I buy mine.
My HD7
Me and MY HD7 it's a love hate relationship I guess.
A bit of history:
I've owned the HD1 (****ing loved it), The HD2 (was an okay device) Now the HD7 (still testing it). I'm a smartphone FANATIC! I have devices ranging from the Nexus One, to the Blue Angel (favorite phone of all time), to the EVO, G1, MOTO Backflip, Touch Pro1 and 2, even the XDA Flame, and Palm Pre, you name it. So I don't really have a biased to any particular device.
The HD7:
The physical design is AMAZING (though I think it could use more metal on the back, but it still feels way better than the plastic clad EVO). The screen appears to be floating as it's not touching the upper and lower bezel. The kickstand is sturdy.
The camera button is hard to press on the second stage (not the focus stage), if you attempt to use one hand it will probably shake enough of ruin your shot (and I have big hands, I can palm a basket ball). two hand use should be fine
The camera flash is great. It does a good job with adjusting the brightness of the light.
The battery life is absolutely pathetic, worse than than any device I ever owned.
The Audio from the built in speaker is CRAP! Even with HTC sound enhancer. I'ts actually the worst sounding phone I every owned, but it's bearable.
The Audio pushed out through the headphones is AMAZING!
The vibrator. I know who ever's reading this is like WTF? But I've always hated the way the vibrator feels on HTC device. I think it's an important feature on devices nowadays especially with tactile feedback emulations. With that said: On my EVO it's horrible it makes an annoying noise and it only vibrates the lower portion of the phone. But the vibrator on this device is awesome. It feels really natural and vibrates the whole phone. Almost better than the one on the Samsung devices.
The LCD display is actually decent. I don't know what everyone complains about, the device would have cost nearly twice as much with a 4.3 inch SAMOLED like everyone wants, no one has a 4.3 inch AMOLED or SAMOLED so give it a rest people! The display could be brighter in my opinion though.
The sound quality for phone call is the best I had so far, but put it on speaker phone and it's the worst I've heard.
Pocket IE is very fast faster than the Android 2.2 default browser. But the render is kind of weird as they seem to not have have anti aliasing on text when completely zoomed out so it looks horrible sometimes. Over all the browser is good.
Windows 7 in a nutshell
I love it and hate it.
I love: the messaging app, the overall interface, the idea for hubs, the xbox live integration, the live tiles, the lock screen, the Email Hub (beautifu and extremely functional), the picture and video Hub (beautiful and functional) the entire OS is extremely responsive and cohesive.
I hate: Some hubs won't load (and requires a soft reset) less than 5% of the time, Some apps have the tendency to crash (more time than I'm comfortable with) bot 3rd party and built in apps, I hate that the video recorder will not retain settings.
And I ABSOLUTELY HATE when searching for apps you get music result as well; example: if you search in Market Place for "Notes" you'll get some applications like "Voice Notes" and "Light Notes" but you'll also have albums and play lists mixed in like "Notes from the Past" and "Best of the 70s - Play list" WTF!! at the very least they could have grouped them by type "Albums" "Applications" "Play List". Instead they mix them all up randomly so you'll have to search an entire list of music albums so you won't potentially miss a very good app all the way at the bottom. W T F !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I give the device a 7/10
-Frankie
MHO.
HD7 -> compared to other HTC devices -> significant de-evolution.
HD7 -> compared to other devices same class -> not possible.
WM7, "satisfactory" start with possibility to improve fast.
HD7, terrible hardware choice and cant improve anything.
4/10
K
Thanks Dotcomp for the poll ,now thread is sticky....guys be nice,i'll check this thread and i won't see any flame around and in case post and quotes with flame will be deleted.
Thanks all for cooperation.
I rate it a 4/10. Pretty much subpar. I think there is a distinct difference between a fresh new look and quality.
For someone who is new to and Microsoft mobile OS dating back to the Offline pocket Pc's like me then this OS looks half baked.
For someone new to the MS OS then this OS is great with it's flashy graphics and smooth transitions. However there are just too many things that the girst Pocket Pc phone Edition had out the door that this OS lacks. Yes! I'm sure they'll be rectified down the line.
Now I need to make it clear before all the flaming kicks in; I definitely believe in the OS and it's future. There's a lot to come down the line. Heck! Great apps are coming out all the time. i just found FIM in the marketplace this morning.
However; as the saying goes. Call a spade a spade. Windows Phone 7 compared to Windows Mobile 3 or 2 or just plain PPC is subpar.
PROS:
Solid design on the hardware side.
Like the classy look of the hardware
The OS is very polished
Software keyboard works well and the screen size helps.
OS is snappy for anything native.
touch sensitivity is best I have ever seen. Most responsive OS i have ever used.
ZUNE /media capabilities and netflix are all a welcome +
CONS:
Very slow 3rd party apps.
Have to be reloaded every time they launch and takes for ever to just
check simple information like facebook or twitter or local movie times
no multi-tasking is sometimes bothersome as well as the omission of cut/copy/paste
Horrible browser who's acid test is only 5/100
no flash ( not really a deal breaker but just thought i would throw it out their)
no many apps available yet and when they are i think they dont work as optimized/or efficient as they should. (yes i know its early still)
on the hardware side the camera has a pink hue when i use the flash rendering the flash useless basically
cheap shiny metal material which was already chipping and i had only used the handset a week.
All in all I think MS did a great job redirecting the failing division they had
now i believe its time they bring the browser up to speed while adding a lot of industry standard features they need to catch up on. Great inial release and starting point for their revolution. I didnt think they had it in them. By next fall I expect them to be on par with most on the industry in terms of missing features and I think WP& is a great alternative to anything out their while bringing a totally different experience to the market with its unique minimal look. I am a die hard android fanboy but would not mind sticking it out with a WP7 device when 3rd party apps function properly. with that being said I give MS an A-
I like the phone and Microsoft.... but it needs to work just as good if not better than the iPhone 3GS that I had. I like that I can change the battery that is definately better than iPhone. And the microSD card is better too but it needs to be accessible as well. Not behind a cover and 10 screws. I know that is really for system memory, but then there should be a seperate slot for another SD card. I still like to take pictures or create/save documents and take the card and transfer to another computer or phone. Where is that SIM Manager too?? You had it before but now it's not a feature. And please please make the volume much much higher. Even the "speaker phone" volume is way too low.
All in all this phone and OS has lot's of potential. I like the "cloud" concept but as it stands today, my previous iPhone beats this handset. Please HTC and Microsoft... don't make me go back to Apple.... please !
tagging
Hi all, I tell them that I decided to change my htc htc hd2 and then my desire for the new hd7, I love the speed with which I access the most important things in fast, but I feel some omissions such as: When you dial keypad Phone numerical prediction can not find the contacts, I have no possibility of a browser like igo gps, garmin, etc. And as already mentioned missing file browser. If anyone knows how to put the prediction of contacts or a good gps software please send an email to this fledgling community in windows phone 7.
poor battery life.
poor screen.
poor camera.
great OS just needs a few more features. And I know they are coming.
Come on HTC I know you have better cameras and screens,What were you thinking?
Why not have a higher capacity battery as well?
After two weeks Im going to return my phone. I cant really pinpoint one thing why I dont like it, but I miss using Android. I know Ive gotten beat up about this before but If you have a cell phone number listed in the home field of the contact, they arent searchable in "Messaging" . I understand how everyone feels about that but my argument is the person is listed in the contacts so the information is there, but it wont even display the persons name when searched. Fixable but "to me" annoying. I also dont like that the tiles on the home screen are basically all the same color. For me It makes glancing at the screen difficult to quickly search the tile Im looking for.
Battery life is terrible and makes the phone unusable for media if you are also relying on it all day long for other stuff.
Volume is way to low.
Not having LED notifications for SMS and Email is just insane. All day long I have to turn the phone on and off to see if I missed something. Just stupid.
Its beautiful and runs great but there just isnt a reason to switch to it if you have used any other modern smartphone.
Just my two cents.
The Marketplace really needs a dedicated app search area. As it is, you put in a search term for an app and it brings up music results as well. Sort of annoying searching for the Twitter app and having a bunch of mixtapes and singles mixed in with the apps.
Maybe it's there and I'm missing it?
manlisten said:
The Marketplace really needs a dedicated app search area. As it is, you put in a search term for an app and it brings up music results as well. Sort of annoying searching for the Twitter app and having a bunch of mixtapes and singles mixed in with the apps.
Maybe it's there and I'm missing it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find this EXTREMELY ANNOYING too!!!!!
One good thing I would like to add to the positives is the maps app. To me its the best Ive ever used.