Database Develop

[POLL] Detailed Info & Statistics on Cooked ROM's [Idea CANCELED] see details

Well as many of you know I have 2 HTC HD'S and I do a lot of testing on cooked ROM's. Actually I usually flash each device 1-3 times a day. One of the things I noticed is there is a lot of questions in the ROM threads about problems with exchange server, activesync, GPS, bletooth etc which while they are part of the device but may not be due to ROM issues. I also see many new members overwhelmed at the list of new ROM's and trying to decide what to flash. So I have a idea which I think would be good for the community and to the cooks. Why do I spend so much time testing ROM'S? Well I'm Partially Retired from Engineering background and I love my gadgets. I live in Thailand (LOS) and run a small restaurant but I still like to be active with electronics and my gadgets. But most of all I like to share and hopefully be of help to someone.
A repository of all my testing on all the ROM's, and or by any cooks request. I use a very strict and standard set of guidelines to test all ROM's the same every time and equally as to get the best evaluation. The repository would also include detailed information on each ROM such as version numbers of ROM and programs etc, as to let people know what is inside the ROM. Also in the repository would be all of my testing methods and specific test I run on each ROM. All benchmark test and performance test will be calculated by an average of 3-5 tests for more accuracy. For ROM's that don't have specific features it will be indicated in N/A. I would also take request for specific testing on a specific ROM, by members and by cooks.
I have tested so many ROM's and I feel I have wasted much of my time as I can't share and inform people as I would like, in fear that people would think I'm being subjective to one or more persons ROM. So this would be a way for me to share all of my work to the community and it would be a good reference source for cooks to check on other ROMs without having to actually flash every one to see what is inside and what bugs are there.
Now my question to the members would you value such a source?
EDIT: Well after 2 weeks of insane searching and testing I have decided to Cancel the idea above. The big problem being with all the testing tools I bought and tried most of the differences between all ROM's are very small. There are some differences but to the average person looking at the results is just confusing.
The second thing is I have tried every way to build a report database of information but again it just doesn't work without being subjective.
The only part of this which was still worthy was the full list of what is included in each ROM. a Detailed list of all programs and versions and build numbers. Unfortunately this is not enough information alone.
I will still continue to do beta testing and I can do a detailed test upon request.

Good Idea
I think this would be quite useful although how a person finds a rom is quite subjective. I suppose if your listing the haves and have nots then the user can do with the information what they wish.

Great Idea

Hey wanna partner up to help make the blackstone cooked rom list better?

Dizzle said:
I think this would be quite useful although how a person finds a rom is quite subjective. I suppose if your listing the haves and have nots then the user can do with the information what they wish.
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Yes exactly, this is why I will have a very structured list of observation, test results, and general facts. I will want to refrain from making personal opinions as this is then subjective. For example one of the observations might be " Scroll smoothness 1-10 with 10 being the smoothest" I will also welcome a list of things from cooks as they feel would be important observations or test if I miss something.

...having an objective reference is always very useful, also for those that believe that there are many subjective elements to choose a ROM. It is a very challenging activity, and in my opinion it implies a lot of time investment to be done correctly. However, it is indeed "one of the greated ideas i've heard of".

brilliant, I take my hat off to people who can find time in their day to do this kind of thing.
Just dont forget to include which 3rd party apps would be used if any.
Thanks!

~~Tito~~ said:
Hey wanna partner up to help make the blackstone cooked rom list better?
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Ok Thanks, waiting a few days to see response and word from admin/mod

I think it is an excellent idea.
It would certainly answer a lot of questions before they are asked.
So many ROM's, so little time.
​

I think this is a wonderful ide.
I myself have problem to deciede wich of...probably 3 ROM I will use.
A list of have/have not comes very handy, and helps me decide which I will choose.
Just a question...
which is the best between, duttys 2.1 Extrem ROM, L26_THDV8.0_WWE Ultimate and Davideuck_V-2_HP,OS 5.2.21028?
This are the ones I choose from...and I can't decide wich is the best.
Another question...Is Rhodium good? Useful? Run smooth on HD.
I've seen some issuse with the home button, anything you have notice with Rhodium?

mndgz said:
brilliant, I take my hat off to people who can find time in their day to do this kind of thing.
Just dont forget to include which 3rd party apps would be used if any.
Thanks!
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i agree with this because much 3rd party apps scramble up the rom but do you have time to test al party apps or maybe help from users wich work and wich not and keep it updated

miniterror said:
i agree with this because much 3rd party apps scramble up the rom but do you have time to test al party apps or maybe help from users wich work and wich not and keep it updated
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To start I will test and report on Device functionality and software included in the ROM. If I have time I may take on more test as a separate individual request. This keeps the data I provide close to the same for every ROM.

miniterror said:
i agree with this because much 3rd party apps scramble up the rom but do you have time to test al party apps or maybe help from users wich work and wich not and keep it updated
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having said that there's only a handful of 3rd party apps that actually change or modify system files / settings and therefor are worth mentioning, I personally only use PhoneAlarm out of such...the likes of Resco Explorer I was using since the days of HTC Wizard and it never did any harm to any ROM

i agree that a factual objective measurement of each roms +/- qualities would be useful.
if you have the time and inclination to do such a thing, then do it
if the mod/admin team dont want to sticky it, why not create your own website with the info and link it in your sig? id happily link in mine also
although, L26 is still the best (in my subjective opinion )
good luck

jonajuna said:
i agree that a factual objective measurement of each roms +/- qualities would be useful.
if you have the time and inclination to do such a thing, then do it
if the mod/admin team dont want to sticky it, why not create your own website with the info and link it in your sig? id happily link in mine also
although, L26 is still the best (in my subjective opinion )
good luck
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Hi!
You said that L26 is the best in your opinion, have you tried Dutty Extreme or Davideuck_V-2?
I'm a bit torned between these three ROMs. I have only tried Duttys Extreme 2.1. These three seems to be the most popular ROMS, thats why I choose between these.
It wolud be very helpful if anyone who has tried these three to give me his/hers view of it.
Davideuck_V-2 seems good and also the new L26 V9.0 seems to be good.
The new Dutty Extreme 2.2 i comming, but nobody knows when. But this version (I think) will not have the new Rhodium
What is the differens between Rhodium and the old one?
Is it only the new start menu? Why should I take a ROM with Rhodium?

kille9 said:
Hi!
You said that L26 is the best in your opinion, have you tried Dutty Extreme or Davideuck_V-2?
I'm a bit torned between these three ROMs. I have only tried Duttys Extreme 2.1. These three seems to be the most popular ROMS, thats why I choose between these.
It wolud be very helpful if anyone who has tried these three to give me his/hers view of it.
Davideuck_V-2 seems good and also the new L26 V9.0 seems to be good.
The new Dutty Extreme 2.2 i comming, but nobody knows when. But this version (I think) will not have the new Rhodium
What is the differens between Rhodium and the old one?
Is it only the new start menu? Why should I take a ROM with Rhodium?
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Please what you are asking me to do is exactly what I don't want to do. Give a subjective opinion. Yes I have tried all of them more than once. Give me some time and I want to put in place detailed information for all ROM's that way you can see what fits your needs and make your choices. I like all the ROMs but for me to single one out is being subjective and this I will not do.

This is an excellent idea.

bobsbbq said:
Please what you are asking me to do is exactly what I don't want to do. Give a subjective opinion. Yes I have tried all of them more than once. Give me some time and I want to put in place detailed information for all ROM's that way you can see what fits your needs and make your choices. I like all the ROMs but for me to single one out is being subjective and this I will not do.
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Thats ok!
I think many of us is eager to find out what you know about the diffrent ROMs.
There are many ROMs out there. And every ROMs is improving with every release. It's hard to keep up which to choose.
And it also looking that every one is on the verge to release a new version this couple of days. So I think we all need your knowlege ASAP.
So please start the thread soon.
Thanx for the iniative!

Review template ?
Stats are good but as others have said, they can be subjective.
If each user filled in a form (online) where there were categories such as user type, main use for phone, technical aptitude, and then ratings for different categories, it would be possible to extract meaningful results.
For example
User type [professional] [casual user] [gadget freak]
Main use for phone [surfing] [work] [as a phone] [showing off]
Technical aptitude [n00b] [can follow instructions] [program for fun] [professional coder]
Graphics Performance [rating out of 100]
Ease of use [rating out of 100]
Responsiveness [rating out of 100]
Battery Life [rating out of 100]
Desirability [rating out of 100]
Appearance [rating out of 100]
You get the idea. New users and existing users could search these results based on their own priorities, worthy roms could then be chosen etc.
Just my 0.02
SlyT

What an excellent idea, I'd really appreciate an imparital viewpoint on the different ROMs

[DEBATE] this forum, cooked roms, chefs and donations...

guys,
please read the text below and let me know what you think about it...
although people try to mask the situation by giving it good names the truth is that this is happening and something has to be done before things get worse.
some folks are using this forum to sell what they call 'their' products. they get these ROMs, they make changes to it by adding or removing software. then they publish it as if they are 'sharing' their 'work' but, strangely, they do it in a very commercial way by naming their 'work' with appealing words to get attention.
when these ROMs go published, they often take a few first posts of the thread as they have a lot of information to add..... and screenshots to publish..... and donations to 'suggest'...... and donors' names to publish.
sometimes it will happen that a few folks who are trying these home cooked ROMs with applications that are less likely to be used by most people will end up having serious problems that eventually will get fixed by the 'chef' .... on a new version.
the principle of sharing a piece of work entirely made by yourself is that it cannot be asked anything in exchange otherwise, even if slightly suggested, it's nothing but a sale and by getting copyrighted software, making changes to it, 'sharing' and suggesting donations from the testers, well.... i'm pretty sure this isn't completely nice.... and either legal.
although i never really bothered to look into these roms to see what's really inside them (even flashing them on my phones sometimes) i decided to do it earlier this week. the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
another interesting thing is that if you look into the other subforums carefully you'll see that the same chefs often publish roms for more than one handset which gets me thinking two things: 1) do they really have all these handsets they publish ROMs for? 2) if so, are these roms really tested before they go online?
i don't want to be seen as a troublemaker cause it seems that these folks have made a living out of this cooked rom thing and they appear to have gotten themselves a pretty nice bunch of fans too. however, what i want with this thread is to raise a debate and the reason is that i really like this forum and i'm concerned about something that is happening and i completely disagree.

So what is your main concern?
That the chefs would like to have donations?
Or that someone takes a pile of code and alters it not according to the original programmer?
abe

big people talk about idea..
small people talk about other people..

You have a point with "selling someone else's code, slightly altered and selling it as your own", but I think the ROM cookers only like donations for the work they do tuning the original roms and most of the time adding functionality to the device. A lot of the "better known" chefs have gathered testers around them, so most of the bugs are gone before a release.

What exactly is the debate? Where are the facts/proof that this is occuring? you cant make such a statement without backing it up with some evidence.

I know some chefs actually put ALOT of time and effort into cooking a rom, testing it and informing the community about any errors found.
I've cooked a Rom or two myself and am working on a driver set for MSM devices. It takes ALOT of my time to do so and it's not only for my own benefit. Thank God there are people out there who help me with that. (you know who you are, if you're reading this)
I'm not saying that it's right to pass your ROMs off as your own, but I do know some chefs are better in making the devices perform alot better than HTC's programmers do. And if people want to reward them for their time and effort through donations, who am I to question that?
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
Just my 2 cents.

Well, I think that if they "invest" lot of their time (and they do), it is ok to have donation button. Nobody if forceing you to pay for rom. If you like it you can donate. Fair deal if you ask me!
SlakerBoi said:
guys,
the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
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This part I don't like. I think that they shouldn't do that, because in that case, like you said, roms are in some way being sold. That is not in the spirit of xda.

I think what he may be referring to is some members that take the ROM's from a known cook and post it with screenshots in other forums and other language forums with potential to gain off someone else work. I know of 1 instance where a Link to a ROM for only a beta test ended up with more than 500 downloads when intended for less than 10. It was found posted around in different forums.
To reward someone for there hard work in customization is up to the community. I think most people know the ROM's are not the property of the cooks, but just the cooks work in rearranging, adding, deleting, and customizing. I for one can tell you the amount of donations most cooks receive is very small and in most cases would barely cover a unlimited account for downloads. I myself think of it as I'm cooking for myself and if other people like then that's ok too.

Hi
If I use HTC mobiles is because the cooked roms...
Iosu

NeoS2007 said:
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
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For me the first thing to do in order to solve this "problem" is to prohibit any "protected" ROM. I think its not fair to take official ressources, work with tools, which can be found in this forums, and then "protect" the ROM, claiming that its your own choice.
I don't think that this is the right way to go, as other (new) cookers could learn a lot from these ROMs.
But, I don't think that this is the "problem" that SlakerBoi is talking about, is it?

As these discussions tend to come and go every now and then ...
Indeed it costs a huge amount of time in the first place. And a lot of users appreciate the work all cooks are doing overhere. Besides the cooking giving people advise. I can tell you that most cooks share their knowledge. Not always visible to everyone but most of them have contact and help each other. Furthermore, is offering your rom for dumping without any guidance the best way to share?
Everyone that asks for a package, help or guidance in any way is supported in the cooking thread. Some did publish a very nice rom after some time. In my opinion it is a far better contribution then offering an open rom without any support.
The reason I cook my own roms the way I do is for speed purpose. If you have another opinion that is fine with me. But tolerate each other on having a different approach. These kind of statements in threads only give xda a bad vibe. Open your mind, when you want or need something ask for it. It's not supposed to be a tv diner anyway.

I quote you , my friend!

Well this is how it goes for a long time. I think if you don't like it, go somehwere else.
What will you get from debating??

SlakerBoi my first question for you is "have you every cooked a ROM?" i am sure your answer will be "No" because i know how much time n effords need to be put. When i cooked my first rom it took me 4 sleepless night to build a basic beta quality rom. After such a hard work someone reward you by donating. That feeling can't be said in words SlakerBoi. So please stop raising this type of question.
One more thing most of the ROM developers buy new phone with the donations they go so it's not a issue if they release rom for many devices.
Please don't continue this decisions so that this post will go to some corner.
MOD this post hurts lot of ppl feeling so please delete it.

before the flame wars starts
i am going to close this....as these questions will cause fighting.
if you have a problem with someone...contact them....don't post like this
you know this is only going to end in fighting.
thread closed.

As a chef, and a moderator (chef came first), I'll add my thoughts.
I started into cooking when AT&T released their official WM6.1 ROM for the Kaiser. I always liked the design of AT&T ROMs, but not all of the bloat they included... most of which could not be uninstalled. I had the very "simple" goal of removing the bloat in an attempt to speed up the ROM, and increase storage space.
Once I downloaded the ROM, and extracted it using KaiserKitchen, I immediately realized that I was in over my head. I am a very good with PC and Mac computers in the professional/personal world, but I had never looked at the contents of a decompiled WM ROM. There are hundreds of folders, 10,000+ files, and no real explanation of what you're looking at... that is where XDA-Developers came in.
Within 1 week of public release, I was ready with a ROM that could be considered "extreme beta". It worked, and it was fast, but it had quite a few glitches that could not have been discovered without a public release, and a few dozen people testing the ROM. One thing in the background, that is never seen, is the number of hours spent just flashing our phones (I am NOT counting the cooking process) with numerous revisions testing all the bugs/issues reported. My Tilt was flashed no less then 1000 times in it's life, and my Fuze has been through over 500 so far.
I consider myself to be a pretty good ROM chef. But I also know that I am far from the best, and that most of my knowledge came from the very large XDA-Developers community. Some ROM chefs do not share information about the inner workings of their ROM in the ROM thread itself, but a simple email/PM will usually get you the information you seek. Look at it this way: If someone uses a ROM as released, and has no desire to modify it, then why should the thread be clogged with hundreds of questions/answers relating to how this was done, or how that was done.
My ROMs are "protected" using RaphaelKitchen, but it wasn't always this way. It has been shown that merging the RGU/DSM files into one large file speeds up the ROM because you now have several hundred less files sitting on the device. In addition, I also release my kitchen, in it's complete form, when I release a new ROM version. People are free to download the kitchen, extract it to their computer, and fully customize my ROMs. I know this is a popular route, because my Fuze and Touch Pro kitchens have been downloaded over 100 times since v4.7 of my ROM came out last month.
On to donations... I have a donation link in my signature for people who wish to appreciate the amount of work/hours poured into creating custom WM ROMs. Just as my signature says, I never require monetary compensation, but I also accept whatever people give, because it allows me to improve my work. For example, I purchased WinCE CAB Creator with some of my donations, so that I could create CAB files of items removed from the ROM. I also maintain a Rapidshare Premium account so that I never have to delete any file uploaded to XDA. Another form of donation I received was web hosting on a fast server that provided an alternative to Rapidshare.
I've said all of this before, but it's been awhile, and I cannot find the post. In closing, I don't see anything wrong with the items you pointed out. We've had issues in the past with members who used donations as a way to obtain a piece of software (ROM or otherwise), and as soon as it was brought to our attention, it was dealt with.

Incomplete ROMS, are you serious?!

So I was trying to help my little brother get a custom ROM from XDA so he can enjoy his Wing. Well, ends up half of the chefs out there create roms without important features. For example, no MMS. Ok, so maybe you can get away with that since you can download Arcsoft and install it afterwards. However, question remains, why don't the chefs include Arcsoft already in their roms like they used to on XDA with the MDA, etc?!
So fine, no MMS, install it later. How about required functions? For example NO CAMERA SOFTWARE!?!? Are you serious chefs? I mean I know you take out things like ringtones, carrier bloat, etc, but CAMERA?! Now, the MDA, when a chef took out the camera it was because THEY WERE REPLACING IT WITH A BETTER CAMERA SOFTWARE.
What gives XDA?! I am noticing this in other ROM threads for other phones. Even some of the latest phones have this issue too. Rhodium roms missing landscape mode?! It's a Rhodium, it has both landscape and portrait!
Either way, so fine, you want to make these roms available to the public. No problem. Ever think about creating a TEST ROMS section INSIDE OF XDA ROMS?!
So another example. One section for "INCOMPLETE BETA SUPER TEST ROMS" and another for "The phone should still be able to use all hardware on it with this ROM" section. How about that for a little more clarity?!
I can't beleive what's happened to beloved XDA. Shame. Big shame.

Weeeeelllllll......not to sound super preachy....but you do realize that you are getting all of this FOR FREE right? Most of the time the reason that commericial programs aren't cooked into ROMs is because they are just that, commercial. AFAIK we could get in MUCH more trouble if we included a bunch of commercial stuff in them. I know that the Wizard has TONs of ROMs with built in stuff that is commercial, I used to be a cook over there, and in my opinion the reason for that is because there is so much crap in that forum that the mods and such arent going to look at every ROM for illegal crap, whereas in this much smaller forum here for the Herald we have fewer members and fewer ROMs but I think like 2 or 3 mods, so they have less to look at and more time to do it.
Long post short, you get this stuff for free...at the most what cooks ask for is a donation, ROMs as they are no matter what are technically illegal piecs of software, and at any time if Microsoft REALLY wanted to they could have XDA shut down without another word..so basically, if you don't like it-cook your own ROM with what you want already in it or stop complaining!
/end rant

Every people cooking ROMs tries to cook the way the most useful for his/her device, and test some apps or abilities from the ROM.
And as you've read, they share their ROMs "for free" so that you can enter here, search, and download the ROM you want, flash it and play with it.
Nobody sells anything. There's no agreement to sign. There's no compromise except the wish to make things well - to every chef's taste.
You don't like this chef, this cook, this dish, then you are free to change restaurant. People is here to discover, develop, and share ideas. If you like stock ROMs with all the features, then get one of them.

The best you can do is to write a factually comment into the thread, where you have downloaded the ROM. This is the right way, to get an answer. But don´t insult the cookers. Here are kitchens presented, so that you can make it better for your own, if you want.

chillax
MMS is a carrier specific issue. Roms atleast for this fone aren't carrier specific... Yea this stuff is free and you'll have to use a little elbow grease to get it workin in the way u want. If you want a specific app cooked into your rom be it commercial or not cook it in yourself, just be careful of rammifications if you share your rom with the public. Kitchens are not rocket science, just grab on and slam into it head first

ashasaur said:
Weeeeelllllll......not to sound super preachy....but you do realize that you are getting all of this FOR FREE right? Most of the time the reason that commericial programs aren't cooked into ROMs is because they are just that, commercial. AFAIK we could get in MUCH more trouble if we included a bunch of commercial stuff in them. I know that the Wizard has TONs of ROMs with built in stuff that is commercial, I used to be a cook over there, and in my opinion the reason for that is because there is so much crap in that forum that the mods and such arent going to look at every ROM for illegal crap, whereas in this much smaller forum here for the Herald we have fewer members and fewer ROMs but I think like 2 or 3 mods, so they have less to look at and more time to do it.
Long post short, you get this stuff for free...at the most what cooks ask for is a donation, ROMs as they are no matter what are technically illegal piecs of software, and at any time if Microsoft REALLY wanted to they could have XDA shut down without another word..so basically, if you don't like it-cook your own ROM with what you want already in it or stop complaining!
/end rant
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I understand, trust me. I don't think you are preaching. In the days when I first got my Wizard (MDA) the roms did not require much addition of software. You could choose a rom and the chef would do more work in letting you know about the rom. ie: Missing this, missing that, has this, has that...etc. I came across two ROMs in particular that did not mention such things to me and was shocked about it.
After further reading the posts in the ROM Chef's thread, I discovered that the chef did not care that the needed app was not working and had asked all users to just download an older build of the ROM instead of trying to get a functional ROM shared.
Now I understand that apparently XDA came under great legal threat from several companies about their roms/software being released here for free(whether or not it left the phones without critical functions). For this reason, to remain alive, XDA had to comply by these rules and just let the chefs make the ROM itself and anyone willing to put up with not having a phone or camera or keyboard or touchscreen working on their phone would test the ROMs out and figure out how to get critical functions back by themselves because it would destroy XDA if the ROMs had this software included.
Back then it was considered hard work simply downloading/burning a ROM that a Chef made, but these days you even have to install the basic function apps yourself if you want to participate. Hopefully it doesn't get much worse than that. I really want my Touch Pro 2 to have an XDA ROM running on it in the near future with WM 6.5 and enjoy butter smooth, reliable operation.

afn691 said:
You don't like this chef, this cook, this dish, then you are free to change restaurant. People is here to discover, develop, and share ideas. If you like stock ROMs with all the features, then get one of them.
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nothing more i can add ...

Interesting debate - lifted for the wider audience

Guys, this was a response to a post from me and my subsequent response to it posted in the XannyTech ROM thread. I thought it would be best to open this to a wider community as I am sure many feel as I do, but are unsure how to better the operation as it currently stands.
As I specify at the end of the post, I am definitely NOT attacking the chefs, just trying to get the best possible solution for the vast majority of people and giving my reasoning behind it.
dafunk2 said:
Mate, I don't agree with you.
I know that these are things told and told again.....but:
- Did you install additional software?
- Did you try to uninstall any additional software?
- Did you try to do an Hard Reset?
- Did you do an Hard Reset after Flashing?
- Did you try to re-flash the rom?
- Did you try to download again the rom?
You can see by other people's feedbacks that this rom is probably the best, performing and stable one, and you cannot of sure tell that this rom is "bits and pieces untested in it", because the cooker and his team of betatesters of course cannot test anything under ANY circumsance and ANY configuration and ANY additional software installed and ANY...and ANY...and ANY....
I feel to tell you these few words because I don't like who don't respect other's hard work. Did you noticed how many releases is Xanny doing? And every release is better then the last...so if you are experiencing problems or probably bugs, please give respect to the cooker and explain in a civil and constructive way wich the bugs are, and you can be sure that the cooker will fix as soon as possible.
Keep in mind that the rom MUST be valued "nude and crude" like the cooker post it, and not after installed a miriad of sofwares in it.
Maybe it's not your case.......
.....but I'm bored to see stupid posts like your.
Escuse me in advance if I'm too "direct" with you, I respect anyone that respect other people.
Ciao from Italy
dafunk
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OK, firstly I take no offence to you being direct - it's sometimes the best way to be
Secondly, I have voiced my issues in a constructive and respectful manner within this thread before and many others from many other Chefs, but with little or sometimes no response.
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
I can't emphasise enough the respect I have for these people, but I do think that we are getting more quantity than quality. There are a number of issues (see bug tracker) with some of the later ROM's which quiet frankly were broken as a result of a new recipe.....working before and broken after is breaking the golden rule of a new software release!
At the end of all this I urge people to understand what I'm saying and not take it as an attack against the Chefs as this is most definitely NOT what this is.

oh and to add, I have tried flashing via USB and flashing via SD Card, and hard resetting a number of times after flash. As for not installing any software....I'm struggling to see the relevance of that suggestion. Do you think HTC test TouchFlo3D against every piece of software developed for the platform they implement their software on to check for compatibility? No.....what they do is adhere to coding standards and practices using certified API's and the like to make sure that 99% of the time everything should be fine.
Now I'm not suggesting the same level of testing for Chefs, but what I AM saying is that if these ROM's are basically tweaked stock ROM's (which the newer Leo ROMs are now it's live) then surely the inherent testing has been done and issues should be minimal. That being the case, why are there so many posts on cooked ROM threads stating issues?
Again, not being antagonistic, just trying to point something out. I appreciate the chefs, but I still want my phone to operate.

I can just offer my noob experience, I have encountered apps made for winmo6.1 to cause problems for winmo6.5. and often times custom made mods by fellow users such as tweaks and graphics, mods to tf3d etc often causes problems, maybe not for first release, but when a new piece of software comes, like now manila 2.5 and so many new releases, what was perfect yesterday causes major bugs today.
And as far as cooking a rom, i have had such thing happened to me that when just updating one package in the rom, the whole thing will not start, just a newer version of the same app. So every new sys, every new manila edition, every new modification is very possible to cause some new conflict, noticeable or not.
I think if we want to have the latest software availible on the market, you will never have that officially, then this is the way to go, and there will always be some sort of conflicts minor or major, the good thing is chefs that are willing to work to improve, workaround fix etc, i like xanny, and miri and several others who are present in their threads and actually communicating trying to solve the issues, some just post a rom and you wont hear from them again until next release. But everything here is from free will, you chose to flash a rom you do take a risk. But we have some good backup tools and autoconfig tools so flashing is not so very timeconsuming
But i have had stockroms freeze on me, lagging and very irritable, but hey i am glad being able to have custom roms, every chef bring their own flavor to the phone, and if you dislike all you can always start cooking yourself then you can twist and turn it however you prefer

Thanks for your input - I was fearing a bit of a flame war when I posted so I'm happy that the first person to reply was a mature one
I suppose you are right from the point of view that having the latest software means that the likelihood is that it will not be officially tested and verified. I just wish that I wasn't always "waiting for the next problem" to occur.
If I was really bothered I suppose I'd go back to Stock and make do, but then I'd CAB my phone up to breaking point with tweaks! - lose lose situation perhaps

the way i look at it, we should only be using stock ROMs. Cookers then put in the time to create great ROMs for us with the features of newer devices, allowing us to get more out of our devices. They ask for little in return, so i dont really think its fair to criticise their products, because were it not for them, we'd be using just stock ROMs. Just my way of looking at it

Wiggz said:
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
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It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are providing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one or go back to stock.
I'm pretty positive they understand we want a fully functional phone, not sure what your point is here.
If you don't like the new version of a ROM then don't upgrade, or try it then go back to the old version.
Although you say you appreciate what they're doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...

scotland101 said:
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are doing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one.
Although you say you appreciate what their doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
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I appreciate your point, and I can wholeheartedly see how my points could be perceived as aggressive towards chefs.
However, what I am trying to say is that whilst I understand I "don't need to use" these ROMs...why would anyone go to the time and effort to create a ROM if:
they didn't want people to use them, and
they didn't want it to be the best ROM out there with the fewest issues
I am simply saying that a few chefs are content with spewing out ROM after ROM without actually realising that people would prefer a recent-ish build release which was stable, and fast over a brand new ROM which was buggy.

personal opinion
Everyone must know that what these guys are doing is from their free time, and no one is forced to use their ROM`s. Who do use them, is doing that by free will. It may be that one of ROM is not that good that another, but you can go anytime to stock ROM, or the one you had before (like I did some times).
What I`m trying to say is that all we have to do is to say “thank you” to these guys who make possible that we all have a better device.
Keep up the good work and I salute you!

hehehe all very amusing, how you've made this into an issue I don't know...
chefs don't need to "understand" anything, they post it here with as much or as little description as they like!
luckily this forum is packed full of support tips faqs etc that there's really no need to ask chefs to be "very precise" and other such nonsense.
chefs can "spew" as much as they like, what the general public "prefer" is really not an issue, you are lucky that some of them reply and give you the help they do at all, in fact Xanny happens to give a lot of support for his roms and I can understand why he might feel just a little tired at some of the repetitive questions etc that get asked in his thread.
The fact the chefs reply at all should be help enough, you imply that you put "time and effort" into testing the roms...well that's lovely but it doesn't give you any extra gold stars.
This is not an attack against you, but you "need to understand" that there's nothing the chefs "need to understand" or do in order to please you or anyone else who take the time to test the roms, because noone is asking you to.

I think this pretty pointless thread has ran its purpose IMO. I believe all chef's put a lot of work into their roms and are trying to acheive the best rom, with the latest builds with no bugs. This is a hard enough task without people complaining about issues all the time which in general most chef's try to eradicate. No one wants bugs including chef's, but with newer builds appearing all the time, its inevitable you will get issues as these builds where not planned for the HD.
Think enough has been said on this subject
Thread closed

Rom reviews

Hello all Chefs and Rom users, I wanted to know how would you like if someone started a thread or site where they do in depth reviews on roms,chefs,and apps for htc phones? Would you find this useful and would you be willing to post your roms on a site that does this? Would you be interested in paying for adverstisement? Would you like for a donation link to be placed in your review or section on the site? Rom users, how useful do you think this site will be? I am open to all comments and questions. Thank to all in advance.

I think that would be a great idea, especially for the people who arent sure which rom they want or what they want on a rom or the people that are new to this scene. Maybe the site could include a list of things that are included in the roms. Such as does it have the latest .net compact framwork and things like that. Also it could be broken down into which roms would be best for which versions of the rhodium. Like T-mobile, at&t, sprint, verizon. And there could be a rating system letting users rate the roms. Just a few ideas to throw at you.

Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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yeah i second this. The key thing about roms is that they differ in appeal for one person to the next. Most roms these days are nice and fast (certainly faster than stock) and so the additional factors may involve apps included, graphics and other features and although these are listed within the chefs thread as screenshots and lists, you only really know a rom is right for you once its in your hands and personally test-driven!
Agreed, it would be good to have an objective list of features of all current roms and comments of them in one place, however the info is already out there leaving the rest of the work up to the user!

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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I agree... With a UC cable ROM, a PC registry editor (CeRegistry, MobileRegistryEditor) and maybe SDConfig Builder along with PIM Backup I have it automated down to about 10 minutes...

i like it
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea

antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.

Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc

geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads

Not a bad idea
antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in the same boat I flash roms all the time, and love this forum, It would be nice to have an alternate way to read about rom,chefs,apps,Htc phones,rumors.
Something that goes more in depth.

not a social networking site
geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am talking about a site,not really a social networking site, because that will just grow too huge and make it hard for some users to be able to get the info they are looking for. I am thinking more like a blog. Where you can search info and find different articles. There would be polls on roms. The rom may be reviewed with general info and people can leave comments. I just think it may be a way to narrow down this info for users to easily get to. Some are intimidated by huge sites. The site will have other info ,but will also lean more towards roms and chefs. The site would benefit rom users and chefs.

cant cover all roms
ohyeahar said:
I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The site would not cover all roms,but would try to cover major releases and maybe the roms of chefs who want to link there roms to the site.

Thank You
Thank You to all who participated in this poll. Anyone who have not participated yet can still participate. It seems most members would enjoy a site like this one. I have updated my signature with the latest roms I am running. Thank you all!

ohyeahar said:
Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Reading from 40 to 400+ pages of a thread just to see what the rom is about isn't something I look forward to. I would like it if they were categorized. For example, search filters for all the roms that have sense 2.1 or all the roms that have 2.5, etc. Roms that are made specifically for a carrier would also be a nice filter. I also think a really good idea would be to make a program with the purpose of benchmarking a rom just to try and test the speed of how fast the rom really is. There are many more things that can be done. I think thewingster.com is a great example of this, but it can be taken to another level to make it much easier for users. There are many roms not posted on that site, but the popular ones are there.

I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.

MadBeef said:
I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.
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Click to collapse
The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.

accent2k2 said:
The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.
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Click to collapse
Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round

MadBeef said:
Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round
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Makes since thanks