Related
There is a bit of uncomfortable and uneasy feeling with the advent of a GPS device on my hip, not that I really have anything to worry about, but the US was built on Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Seems that we should remove the Liberty part of that as of late, but damnit, if they want to watch me and invade my privacy, it should NOT be on my dime, further more, I’d like to think that the pics I take of the latest female won’t be observed by an assigned GMAN torn from his family and in need of whacking himself off.…
Anyway, I saw a Treo 750 that had a privacy tab on the GPS applet, (obviously privacy from carrier from data provided by BT GPS device, knowing they distribute the same binary, this should be reproducible on our HTC devices, knowing we run Windoze, and I haven’t seen anything to monitor what the system console has been doing, and to top that off, there is periods with my Tilt that the interface is unresponsive, and I am not the only one that has had a problem with the Google maps app connecting to com4. So anyone out there wonder what MY device is doing with MY processor ticks besides me?
Anyone out here that has been looking into the reg entries for the GPS applet?
?Glitch
ummm what?
the GPS is not active unless you're using a GPS program like TeleNav, Google Maps, Windows Live Maps, TomTom Navigator etc.
and how is anyone going view pics that you take with your phone without your knowledge? GPS is only for position information, data cant be transferred by GPS. and who the hell is watching you anyways? unless youre on the FBI's most wanted list or something no one cares or wants to know where you are or what you are doing.
geez, paranoid much?
oh, and GPS or not, you can be tracked just by having a cell phone on you. its call triangulation using cell towers. hows that for paranoia.
All approved cell tracking apps have to send the device a text every few days confirming that it is being tracked (to avoid spouses tracking their other halfs)...
But that doesn't mean that people aren't hacking them and developing unapproved ones...
You knew this already when you bought your phone. And who is watching you anyway. And if it is really neccesery you provider can track you by in and outgoing phone calls to see where you were at a certain time. So your privacy was gone as soon as you got your first mobile phone.
tinfoil hat?
tripitaka said:
tinfoil hat?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking Thorazine.
dscline said:
I was thinking Thorazine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
?Glitch said:
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And as the guys said, the GPS has nothing to do with anyone being able to track you (other than potentially being slightly more accurate). If you are seriously worried about all of the above, then buy an old mine (in a false name) and live down it.
Personally, I have no plans to commit terrorist attrocities or criminal activity, so I don't mind if Police/Government could track me (or more importantly suspected terrorists/criminals) if they wanted to.
Personally I expect they'll stick to good old network triangulation - it's cheaper, it works with any mobile, and there's literally no way you'd ever know "they" were doing it
Sleep tight now...
Just send a letter to President Bush and Congress thanking them for the good 'ol Patriot Act that was passed some years back...
?Glitch said:
Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, it was a joke. Get a sense of humor. Secondly, if you do believe everything you type, then you should not expect such things to be so easily circumventable as changing a few reg keys. If you want to change the way things are headed, fight with your vote, and with activism, not with "hey, I bought this device because I think it's cool, even if the potential is there for it's capabilities to be used against me... anyone have any easy fixes?"
No matter what is possible, the fact remains that there are billions of civilians, compared to a relatively small number of people who could potentially have access to such data. If you have done nothing huge to draw significant "national security" type attention to yourself (which I have to assume you haven't, posting on on public board and all), the chances are minuscule that anyone who could invade your privacy has any interest in doing so.
"Blocking access" to a single phone that no one is even going to try to access isn't going to solve anything. And if we get to the point where our phones DO get used for the purposes you describe, it's too late. At this point, you're better off focusing your energies on a political front rather than a technological one.
I don't think the concern is the government. Now, electronic tracking data is becoming an issue in civil legal proceedings (lawsuits, contested divorces, etc.) - "EZ-Pass" toll data is one example, and auto-tracking systems are another.
I'm personally not too worried about this, but I can see why some law-abiding people might be concerned.
I've found a couple of companies that specialize in developing drivers for handheld devices, one of them is particulary interesting as it has done exactly what we're looking for before. I need someone who can talk to them and get them all the details and specs.
Here's the correspondence so far:
Me to them:
'm writing on behalf of HTC Kaiser owners. It's pretty much well
known to whoever is interested in PDAs that HTC has shipped many of its
recent devices without proper video drivers. They have a Qualcomm chipset
with (reportedly) ATI Imageon hardware acceleration in it, but not enabled
or not properly used. We've collected a good sum of money to get those
drivers developed, and I wanted to ask whether your company can help us with
this. More info (including specifics of the problem) can be found here:
http://www.htcwiki.com/page/HTC+TyTN+II+Driver+Issues and here:
www.htcclassaction.org Please let me know whether you can help us with that
and we can talk about compensation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They answered:
Thank you for contacting ALT Software.
We would be happy to discuss your requirements with you. As you may be
aware, ALT has been developing software driver solutions for our clients for
over 13 years now. Our team has extensive experience in creating system and
embedded level software. In fact ALT supports a variety of ATI chips within
our own OpenGL product line, as well as having been engaged by AMD/ATI on
other software development projects enabling new chips for the HDTV and set
top box industry.
ALT definitely has the ability to support your group; however the key
component that may be lacking is access to the hardware specifications,
registry specs for the chip, and existing driver source from ATI & Qualcomm.
Does your group have access to those specifications? Without that
information, it would make the task monumental.
Are you able to provide me with a ballpark on the budget your group has set
aside for this work?
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thanks,
Rob
Robert ********* - Sales Manager
ALT Software Inc.
****************
****************
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've answered:
Thanks for getting back to us.
Here's the basic info on the chipset: http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2006/060404_sampling_msm7200_chipset.html
There are a lot of senior developers in the community, I'm sure I can get more details on the problem and about the chipset from them. HTC also promised to release some kind of a fix for video rendering that may help you.
So far we've collected over $4000 for this, and if more is needed - I'm sure people will pile in more as they will see that someone is working on it.
Let me get some people who know drivers better than me so that we can provide better details.
In the meantime, let me know what the price range for this could be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I covered the contact info so that he doesn't get swarmed with descriptions. We need to keep this at a reasonable level. I will give his email and phone to however decides to handle this.
Wow, cool man. I'm just afraid we don't have enough specs from HTC to get the project going...
That's where the money come in. I just need someone who can talk hardware to these guys and figure out the details.
Good legwork. I would think a company like this would want to charge at least 50-100k considering the impact. But I could be WAY off(hopefully). You may want to mention to them the high profile this issue has gotten and that they could potentially come out of all of this as hero's and get a lot of good publicity which may add a lot of value instead of cash...
Yeah I was just thinking about that. We could use publicity.
So far however, they want to know the extent of the problem.. They wanna know how much work is needed (understandably). That's why I need someone who has whatever info we can possibly have about this.
bump this...important.
DarkDvr said:
Yeah I was just thinking about that. We could use publicity.
So far however, they want to know the extent of the problem.. They wanna know how much work is needed (understandably). That's why I need someone who has whatever info we can possibly have about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your best bet is Chainfire. Have you PM'd him?
Well, they are looking for a job that's $20K+, large scale projects. I tried to persuade them with publicity and ease of the project... but they declined.
However, they recommended finding someone on scguild.com.
I'll try that today...
If anybody has any leads - let us know.
Perhaps we should consider taking this approach
Show this company figures that represent the number of units the Kaiser and its variations have shown.
Let them know we will raise money up front to get them started.
Let them know they can make money by charing fro a fix and give them the numbers to back it up.
For example:
If 1 million people (and I read here at xda that it is in fact more than that, but I DO NOT KNOW) have bought the Kaiser/Tilt/TyTN II etc etc etc and only 5% of the purchasers buy a fix at lets say $20 then they stand to make $250,000 in addition to whatever start up costs we can give them.
If we get this (or another) company to commit to doing this, and we get an upfront number they require to start the development, then we have a solid goal. We then start a campaign not only at xda, but worldwide, involve the media who has covered this story. The media entities who have covered this to date, have a great follow up story. This in turn gets the coverage needed to show them enough people will buy the fix after development.
For example, they might say "We will be willing to develop this for $XXXXX upfront if outlets exist where we can be assured there is DISTRIBUTION for the fix.
We then have a goal:
Start a world wide campaign to raise the upfront costs.
Secure distribution at every pocket pc software sales site we can contact.
They just might go for it.
That is a lot of money!
Money talks. Publicity seems like a good idea, but they want cash. Show them this is but one way of how to get it!!!!!!
mrmega said:
Perhaps we should consider taking this approach
Show this company figures that represent the number of units the Kaiser and its variations have shown.
Let them know we will raise money up front to get them started.
Let them know they can make money by charing fro a fix and give them the numbers to back it up.
For example:
If 1 million people (and I read here at xda that it is in fact more than that, but I DO NOT KNOW) have bought the Kaiser/Tilt/TyTN II etc etc etc and only 5% of the purchasers buy a fix at lets say $20 then they stand to make $250,000 in addition to whatever start up costs we can give them.
If we get this (or another) company to commit to doing this, and we get an upfront number they require to start the development, then we have a solid goal. We then start a campaign not only at xda, but worldwide, involve the media who has covered this story. The media entities who have covered this to date, have a great follow up story. This in turn gets the coverage needed to show them enough people will buy the fix after development.
For example, they might say "We will be willing to develop this for $XXXXX upfront if outlets exist where we can be assured there is DISTRIBUTION for the fix.
We then have a goal:
Start a world wide campaign to raise the upfront costs.
Secure distribution at every pocket pc software sales site we can contact.
They just might go for it.
That is a lot of money!
Money talks. Publicity seems like a good idea, but they want cash. Show them this is but one way of how to get it!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldnt personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Good idea, I like it.
I'm not giving up - still searching and spamming developers who would be interested in this. If anybody else googles driver development companies - that'd make it easier and faster for us all.
I've got a good description of the problem (thanks Chainfire) which you can use to describe the problem:
"The problem with the current drivers is that they essentially just dump the completely software rendered screen on to the display memory, and that's pretty much all they do. Direct3D and OpenGL ES drivers are missing completely.
No use is made of any sort of acceleration that is provided by the ATI Imageon technology used in these Qualcomm MSM7200/MSM7500 based devices.
What we want are GDI / DDI, DirectDraw/3D, OpenGL ES and GAPI drivers that do make use of the available hardware acceleration."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thefunkygibbon said:
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldnt personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All we need is 1 ROM with proper drivers in it. Everything else is easy.
however the key component that may be lacking is access to the hardware specifications, registry specs for the chip, and existing driver source from ATI & Qualcomm.
I'm not a pro, but isn't that just the problem??
That's just what's needed, and no one seems to have it. (Or is willing to provide)
$20 000 is not that much. Thats just $20 from 1000 people.
Imagine selling the driver for $20. Way more than 1000 people would buy it. I dont think this amount of money needs to be an obstacle.
Surur
Er...
NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER TELL THEN HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE!!!!!
Geez people!
You ALWAYS ASK A PRICE QUOTE AND THEN HAGGLE!!!!
They say, so you got 4k... we want 10k+
BUT
if you ask a price range, they dont know how much we have, and then cant ask double for it. Understand?
Time to start with a new company...
Hehe, well these guys' problem was not really the money, it was the volume as he himself said.
His words:
"Unfortunately, ALT will have to decline this scope.
You may have better luck looking to a individual contractor boards such as www.scguild.com."
But point taken. I've ran through that website and wrote to many potential graphics driver developers... we'll see what they say.
thefunkygibbon said:
but charging for the fix? it would presumably need to be built into a rom rather than installed seperately. how could they charge for it when we would be cooking roms with it in for free to download? and if we are doing that still then thats quite a bit out of order really. I wouldn't personally like to see us lot cooking roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only suggested my idea because we are talking about a 3rd party developing this for us, not HTC. I am not a developer so I don't know how the fix would be applied so please forgive my lack of understanding of how the fix needs to be applied.
If it is a driver, and the devs here would have to cook it into a rom or roms then maybe we are only paying for the driver.
All I can say is that we have a goal, and if HTC wont give give us what we need, and if none of the developers here can succeed then we we have to consider resorting to going to a 3rd party company to develop the solution.
A 3rd party company is only going to be interested in the $$$. I can only speak for myself, but if my choices are to have no drivers or to pay for them... I, like everyone else who pledged to the bounty thread will GLADLY pay to get this issue fixed.
Do I want to pay? NO! HTC should have given this to us but they did not so I don't know what else to suggest.
How about these:
http://www.pfaadtsoft.de/
Here's some stuff I found on MSDN:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890622.aspx
I haven't bothered reading it but the title looked interesting
This section in general might hold interesting info:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447511.aspx
undac said:
How about these:
http://www.pfaadtsoft.de/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good find, email sent.
Here's some stuff I found on MSDN:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890622.aspx
I haven't bothered reading it but the title looked interesting
This section in general might hold interesting info:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447511.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's to whoever understands driver better than me.
I'd be willing to chip in a good amount. Was already looking into other companies fixing the problem, but they would need a lot of information that only Qualcomm and HTC have. :\
Guys,
Lets help our campaign by writing a bad review of HTC Kaiser here:
HTC Kaiser at Amazon.com
And dont forget to click "Yes" on Was this review helpful to you?
Say that you own it (yes you are!) and how you dont like it due to the performance and drivers issue (and other issues like BT, etc.).
Note that you should be honest about the review.
If you think you like the Kaiser/Tilt the way it is now, then it is good for you (be happy!).
However, if you are not satisfied with the device (and/or HTC), you feel cheated by HTC, please put your voice out (write a review).
Dont tell lie, just express your feelings about it.
If you still dont get it, check HTCClassAction
Other reviews :
Expansys.com
ATTWireless.com
Newegg.com
Amazon.co.uk
(Edit: replaced duplicate post with cross-link)
For some background on the purpose of this thread, read this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1861963&postcount=865
Good idea to get everyone to post bad reviews, but PLEASE make sure that the reviews are honest and can be substantiated. The last thing we want is for HTC to point out that we have been organising a slander campaign.
Thanks gogol for starting this thread. Remember everyone, it's not just the Kaiser that's suffering from this issue. Here's the complete list:
http://www.htcclassaction.org/devices.php
If you own any of these devices, you're entitled to share your experience with other potential buyers.
Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-2541160-4372107?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc
Amazon.co.uk:
http://amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=htc
Epinions.com:
http://www.epinions.com/search/?sub...arch_vertical=all&tax_name=&search_string=htc
What are some other sites you've used to research tech devices, where we can add consumer reviews?
ach2 said:
Good idea to get everyone to post bad reviews, but PLEASE make sure that the reviews are honest and can be substantiated. The last thing we want is for HTC to point out that we have been organising a slander campaign.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. Thank you for mentioning that ach2. I've tried to also make that clear in every one of my comments. DO NOT POST false accusations or be unfair. And do not post about devices you don't own or haven't observed any issues with. Don't mark a post as Helpful unless you feel it is correct and helpful. (For example, I saw a negative review stating that WM6 is a bad OS. I do not personally feel that way, so I did not mark the review as helpful to me. Likewise, in my own review I did not mention Bluetooth or speakerphone issues because I have not had a bad experience with those aspects of my device.)
Simply put, if you write a review, be honest.
Couldn't agree more. Thats why I've kept my review simple and have referenced the website:
www.htcclassaction.org.
I suggest everyone else should do the same. If the website keeps popping up people will go and some may even read!!
Be warned that it can take from 1 - 6 days for the review to appear.
Other useful things are to rate 5 star reviews as "not helpful" and poor reviews as "helpful" to help dissuade people from this crippled platform.
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Tom Williams said:
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your point Tom. However, if I have an issue with the way the device was marketed to me -- which is contrary to the way the device actually performs -- then I am also entitled to share my opinion with others. Because "if the device is not the most ideal device" for me, then it probably isn't for others either. I wish someone had told me about these problems before I signed a 2-year agreement. Therefore, I'm going to let others know so they can make a truly informed decision before they do the same. After all, isn't that the point of reviews, good or bad?
I would suggest that if you DO like the device, you offer a well-thought-out, positive review about the device. That's fair!
Edit:
Tom Williams said:
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're completely satisfied with your device then don't go looking for faults. However, if you want understand the real issue (and I respectfully add that your comment about it being a media device suggests that you don't understand the real issue yet), then go to http://www.htcclassaction.org/misunderstandings.php. This lays out the real problem that people are upset with... and will probably change your opinion about your device. You've been warned.
lol, some of the 1 star reviews on amazon are just too funny.
"I also have not been able to figure out how to add a number to the address book? Menu> add new, would be my guess, but that's not it, and I haven't figured it out yet. (As an advanced IT guy, I should be able to figure out even something not apparent in a couple of minutes, but not so). "
I dont remember too well, but i think there's a "new" softkey right next to the "menu" softkey
This has been discussed and debated many times.
Just read over http://www.htcclassaction.org
If you dont agree with this move or campaign, then it is not for you.
So, please leave this thread.
Tom Williams said:
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tom Williams said:
Whats the point in this may I ask.
What exactly is the issue with the kaiser as I cannot see any issues with the one I have from vodafone. It does all I want it to do and it does it very well and quickly enough for me not to worry if its being slow.
The device is technically a PDA, it does email, office, internet, and a host of other things, its not a TV, or a portable dvd player or an ipod.
Whats the point in slating the device on amazon if this affects the way htc operates and affects its business.
I wonder if people writing these reviews have looked at the bigger picture.
I would suggest if you do not like the device and have issues with it, then maybe the device is not the most ideal device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For the newbies just joining the forum may i present Exhibit A, the above post, which I will mark "How to jump in without bothering to look at the issue"
FYI if i buy a car that is marketed with a turbo and then the car maker don't actually connect the turbo up (AND DON'T TELL YOU!) do I have the right to be annoyed? If I buy a computer with the latest gee whizz graphics and it then refuses to run in anything but safe mode should I be a tad peeved??
HTC have marketed this "PDA" as having a "rich multimedia experience" to quote one part of their advertising blurb. So I think it is not unreasonable for this device to fulfil these expectations.
Over here its called "false advertising".
With regards to "the big picture" I would respectfully point you to the previously mentioned website so you can perhaps educate and inform yourself. I will live in hope but I won't hold my breath.
Oh and the point of the amazon campaign is very simple - to stop people who want a gadget that does everything from spending their hard earned cash - god only knows we work damn hard for it and its not too much to expect a company that has made massive profits not to FLEECE US.
rant over.
getwilde said:
What are some other sites you've used to research tech devices, where we can add consumer reviews?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expansys UK is another site where users can leave reviews. Particularly good site to post a review on as their homepage has the TyTN 2 on it, with a "Most popular" sticker on it.
However, their reviews are moderated before posting and the review I submitted three weeks ago has yet to see the light of day - perhaps a little too honest for the censors (sorry, I mean moderators)
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
mikechannon said:
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
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If you go on and slander and make unsubstantiated claims that is one thing, however, as long as your factual and honest I see no harm in posting a review of the device. Most reviews on these sites are people justifying their expensive purchase by giving it 5 stars and writing about how its the best thing ever. The choppy video performance, touchscreen lags, etc are all facts and the consumer should be aware of these problems before purchasing. I wish some of these reviews were out there before I made my purchase.
mikechannon said:
This move to orchestrate mass negative reviews on another site (Amazon)will be considered malicious and counter-productive in several ways:
1.
It may be harmful to the class action moves because it shows an intent to damage sales on the as yet "unproven" case by organising the hijack of the Amazon site's review system that by all accounts has shown little but positive reviews by those who have "genuinely" purchased from that site.
2.
It implicates XDA-Developers in conspiratorial manipulation of a third party site.
3
It defeats our purpose which is to persuade HTC by petition and class action to produce the drivers we would like. This action is a direct attack on sales that will be permanent - in as much as the reviews folk post on Amazon will remain there even if HTC respond to pressure and produce suitable drivers. It is not persuasive from HTC's point of view, if they continue to lose sales regardless of whether they produce the drivers or not.
I feel this kind of action falls below the standards of an honest campaign, as already started and now being reported elsewhere (other sites). The pressure is being put on by up-front means and is gaining support.
However, conspiring to manipulate product reviews elsewhere will not necessarily be looked on favorably be Amazon, HTC AT&T and other providers and if as I think likely the wider press begins to take notice of the campaign, this will be a shabby episode and ammunition for HTC.
My personal point of view - this kind of action is going in the wrong direction. Let's make our case for the drivers and make it well, we need to keep the moral high ground. If we are making a case that we have been "wronged" then we don't want to be seen scrabbling around in the muck of petty review rigging at Amazon.
Mike
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I'm afraid I don't agree.
1) "Intent to damage sales". EVERYTHING that we have done could be interpreted as an intent to damage sales. By its very definition that is what negative publicity does.
2) How are we manipulating amazon? All we are doing is encouraging people with kaisers to publish a negative review of their under-performing product. It would be vote rigging/product manipulation if I got my friends who DONT own kaisers to post reviews. If and its a big IF we ever get these drivers I will be the first in line to ask for my review to be withdrawn on the grounds it is no longer accurate.
With regards to this so-called "honest campaign" what exactly does that mean?? We have started a website, we are posting our reviews of our device and referencing the htcclassaction website. How is this in any way dishonest?
At the end of the day some people have paid up to $700 for this "product" and they are entitled to be heard be it through htcclassaction or via the posting of a negative review. How is this any different to when a "reputable" website posts an negative review of a product??
We have made our case for the drivers and we have been told in no uncertain terms to **** off. This needs to be brought to the wider (Read: non-techie) public and one of the ways of doing this is the posting on more consumer orientated websites such as amazon.
I added a negative (but accurate) review on amazon a few days ago, which is showing up for the TYTN II.
I'm sorry mikechannon, but I disagree with you.
First of all, it is not "permanent", as you say. Your own review is editable. If HTC releases drivers, I will gladly change my review. I actually look forward to changing it. If they don't release drivers, my review stays negative.
Secondly, how is giving a perfectly honest and appropriate negative review any different than emailing weblogs like Engadget and Gizmodo to bring attention to it, or starting a website called "HTCClassAction", or having numerous threads going, regarding this issue, in the Kiaser forum here on XDA - arguably the biggest and most influential HTC community forum in the english language?
It is not any different. It is all bad publicity, and frankly, there needs to be more of it. HTC's press release basically said:
"Well, you caught us, we didn't support the included hardware, but we aren't going to fix it. If you want that functionality you are going to have to buy the next device we release."
Apparently they are not familiar with advertising laws in the US. And I quote from their HTC America website:
"Rich media experience with AT&T Mobile Music, Video, TV and games"
We can all agree the media experience is anything but "rich".
The only caution I would have for people giving negative reviews is to do so on the appropriate Amazon domain. If you are a UK or European customer, do it on Amazon UK. If you are in the US and on AT&T, do it on Amazon.com.
If the review is an honest review, then I have to say then the more reviews the better.
I for one wish I had known about the driver issues prior to purchase and prior to signing up for a two year agreement with AT&T.
Isn't the point of these Amazon reviews to point out that a device may have problems?
Dont forget to write reviews on sites such as www.newegg.com and www.buy.com that sell a LOT of these phones.
Guys, there's not much point in continuing to argue about mikechannon's post. He's shown himself to be an HTC fanboy with not much good sense in many of his recent posts. Best to just ignore him and move on. I've posted what I feel is a fairly impartial review on amazon and epinions. Don't forget to review the Tilt as well, since it's sold under that moniker a lot under Amazon.
Mods please move this if posted incorrectly
To all app developers
I am requesting an application to use on my phone as a replacement to the drivers.daily log.this app should intergrate gps location,ability to email/scan and print if possible the daily log form should utiliuze the standard or company specific log form should also include the drivers vehicle report this app should be in compliance with fmsca regulations this app should have the option of editing entries.
I would write the app myself and make a nice profit but I'm not a dev if any one is interested in deving this type of app please do. I have a ton of ideas that benefit the trucking communuty as a whole if any one is interested in tapping into a huge industry
Just a thought most truck drivers have cell phones for many their phone is one of the only
Connections to the ouside world. Most drivers like toys ie phones,computers etc.most drivers spend a great deal of time on their phones most drivers depend on electronic devices devices to tell them where to go how to get there where to fuel and when to where they are suppsed to be at their. They are also usally very pressed for time so an app like the one I have invisiioned would be very useful in the trucking community
passing your phone to the officer at the weigh station could get dicey, not sure they would have the technical skills to view the log on your phone
Good idea. Shows that android is for everyone and would probably get the maker some money. But this request should be in the appl subforum, you'll get more exposure that way.
That's why the option to print is needed. Or a someone could dev a. And market. Prgram to state dot departments
yes the option to export it to a excel like spread sheet would b perfect
bump...............
Job Discovery allows you to find Jobs of any simple to extensive search term in an extremely "dumbed" type interface. With GPS location enabled, it can easily detect the area you're in and search OR simply type a Zipcode of where you might wish to find jobs (maybe where you want to move).
Like the job, company and city/state the job is in? Click the job for instant Step-By-Step Voice (If enabled) and Text GPS Directions w/LIVE Traffic & Construction updates from your current location to the job of your choice. This allows you to easily Job Hunt for jobs in the area you may have just had an interview or plan your day and track the Job's on the Map and "Pin" them for easy 1-Click access.
With the extremely easy UI, anyone can find a job and with results displaying as fast as 2 seconds (May vary depending on Data Plan, Location, etc...), it takes the hours of research out of the way and the calling of each location (or printing a map) a thing of the past. A more graphical and more feature/customizable edition called Job Discovery II (Free too) will be released shortly for those who need even more specifics for results.
You can now Download JD at: http://windowsphone.com/s?appid=d635d0cd-aee2-4f6a-89a1-495b94bbd64e.
thanks man!!
I hope you like it, if you have any suggestions please make them .
God knows, I need a job. I hope this helps.
If you have any suggestions or features you'd like, please let me know...
Originally designed to let you find other jobs by your current/job interview/possible locations you may live and show you the Store, Job Title and the location.
lseidman said:
If you have any suggestions or features you'd like, please let me know...
Originally designed to let you find other jobs by your current/job interview/possible locations you may live and show you the Store, Job Title and the location.
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Along with the search field, how about a drop menu with common job fields?
You got it! I will start archiving different job types from Job/Career Sites and have an auto-complete so as you type it will also guess what you wanted?
lseidman said:
You got it! I will start archiving different job types from Job/Career Sites and have an auto-complete so as you type it will also guess what you wanted?
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Click to collapse
That'd be perfect. Especially for someone who's looking for anything as opposed to something specific. Some of us are desperate for any field we can find a job in.
I appreciate your input, very helpful and will try and roll this update out ASAP as it may take a little time for the update to get accepted and don't want you to be out of a job too long .
Remember if you have anything else you'd like to see, I hope you'd let me know as this App had one purpose, to find jobs and currently searches quite a bit of job sites but tries to narrow down and "rates" them, which you may sometimes see numbers before a job title/company as it thinks they are the best suited/available at the time.
Thanks,
Lance
returned4good said:
That'd be perfect. Especially for someone who's looking for anything as opposed to something specific. Some of us are desperate for any field we can find a job in.
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I love the idea of this app. I'm curious; what database does it use for the job listings? Is it Monster or something like that?
Good job Men
It actually uses a "stream" of job sites, not just one in specific and which is why it kind of does it's own guessing of what's the best jobs to show. A total of now 38 sites when originally it was more than 50 exist now but a lot of sites have blocked the App/Cloud Server but that's ok.
When you search, you're actually sending an anonymous string to our cloud server which hosts a cURL/PHP file that does the actual work (sending the requests to the job sites as some job sites offer an API and will use it) and immediately parses it as it requests only specific parts (some are actually designed separately, especially if they are an API search provider and makes it easier to generate the content) and sends back to the App the converted Lat/Lon of the job location and takes either your exact GPS Lat/Lon or Zipcode and goes, well this and this are closer but they are possibly less relevant and that can be based off of the job title, job content, and also published date/time to determine what may really be the best in the end for you.
I hope that sort of answers your question? As for Monster, we do search them as well but EXTREMELY hard and we only do a max of 35-requests to them so that we don't get banned but all monster results are stored for 72 hours in a MySQL Database.
Thanks,
Lance
M.Alamgir said:
Good job Men
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Thank you very much, I appreciate your response.
Well, the concept is fresh and the app is useful; it has the two most important yet rare points in the app market today for any phone, especially at the same time.
Wow, I didn't know Winn Dixie was hiring......
returned4good said:
Well, the concept is fresh and the app is useful; it has the two most important yet rare points in the app market today for any phone, especially at the same time.
Wow, I didn't know Winn Dixie was hiring......
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Click to collapse
That is very nice of you to say, I appreciate it and glad JD was able to show you a job you didn't know existed.
Good news is another view of jobs has been in the works where you can swipe from Map View and List View which will have the job link to the actual company or job site that has the job but has been a little difficult as the sources vary but would this even be of any use to you?
Tried it, but have to use it landscape? Also the GPS did not work for me, since I'm in Canada. Also, the popup advertisements are annoying. Anyway to get them just to stay at the bottom? Otherwise I can't say how good it is without seeing any jobs.
lseidman said:
That is very nice of you to say, I appreciate it and glad JD was able to show you a job you didn't know existed.
Good news is another view of jobs has been in the works where you can swipe from Map View and List View which will have the job link to the actual company or job site that has the job but has been a little difficult as the sources vary but would this even be of any use to you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely, it would. It would cut out the step of having to google the company and then find their employment link, which isn't always easy to find as I just found out with Winn Dixie. BTW, I dropped 3 applications so far. Let's see what happens.
neoxphuse said:
Tried it, but have to use it landscape? Also the GPS did not work for me, since I'm in Canada. Also, the popup advertisements are annoying. Anyway to get them just to stay at the bottom? Otherwise I can't say how good it is without seeing any jobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At this specific time it accepts only US Postal Codes as it is digit-based and outside US, like Canada, can have alphanumerical (alphameric) and in Canada specific from what I was studying basically has 2 main parts... First part being "Forward Station Area" and second being the "Local Delivery Unit" and could be listed as H1G, 49,657 or H1G49657, which for the input I would need to scan for both possible formats but since the InputScope lastly was updated to strictly "Digits", making the letters impossible to input.
So we actually in our "prototype", I was speaking about with 2 views has an option in the very beginning, if you're non-US, you select that as it will allow all forms of input where the US is specific and allows only 5-Digits. Also some of the sources we use are strictly US job sites but once we saw some of them actual have multi-country job posting/listing we thought it was a good idea to help the other part of the world.
As for the Ad, it should randomly Popup and the reason for it's current placement is actually because people complained it was at the bottom right or bottom left and for some odd reason the top left seemed less intrusive to the 9 people who beta tested it. Also I have it randomly Popup only because I didn't want to make the map smaller to fit a stupid Ad and make it static which some Ad's can be nutty and be flashy and super annoying. This is why when you search for jobs it automatically centers and zoom-in on the location with the most jobs/in the area, but you probably can't see that if you can't see any jobs... Try typing in "89117" and see if it's still an issue to you and if so, let me know and we'll come up with something else.
Also the landscape-only is because the map is larger this way and easier to view as Portrait mode is and I can assure you much smaller and quite disappointing. When you have 20-30 job's Popup, a square box with tons of little "Markers" and text gets almost blurred and when you click an actual marker it launches the GPS feature, which is why in the Portrait mode people kept clicking the wrong one and we figured let's just have them hate us for this mode and not hate us cause they keep clicking the wrong job.
I will stop going on about the future updates but we haven't forgotten the other part of North America and our countries friends, which you will see soon, I promise .
returned4good said:
Absolutely, it would. It would cut out the step of having to google the company and then find their employment link, which isn't always easy to find as I just found out with Winn Dixie. BTW, I dropped 3 applications so far. Let's see what happens.
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First, I am glad you find that would be something useful to you and apologize for you currently having to do manual labor as that wasn't really the goal of the App, to make you do anything really.
We didn't think ahead that people might not be driving around with a stack of Resumes and go to each store to drop them off. Later on and good feedback like yours, it shows people want to see even more about the Job/Pay/Hours/Misc. Items and maybe even not leave home and just Apply online as another way to Apply to Jobs, which is why we were just discussing maybe adding a "Send to..." option and can send it to Twitter or Email but figured Email might be better or to txt to a friend as it may be a bit overkill adding social media in the picture.
As far as your job applications, are these job applications due to this program itself? Like how you discovered the jobs? Either way, I hope you get one of the jobs!