So.. I was looking through youtube videos and realized the palm pre and iphone 3gs can run about full speed on the PS emulator, and they have a 600 mhz processor.
As the iphone 3g has 400 mhz and can run the PS emulators pretty poorly but still around 10 fps.
Why is it that android has not have a PSemulator yet?
cause no one made it yet
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Maybe an N64 Emulator for beta testing?...always have had problems with N46 Emulators, would be sweet tho, even if i have to sacrifice framerate....
jndd333 said:
Maybe an N64 Emulator for beta testing?...always have had problems with N46 Emulators, would be sweet tho, even if i have to sacrifice framerate....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes!
conkers bad fur day on my g1
Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard that the G1 actually has a dual core processor in it but somehow its limited to only running one core, so before we get any sort of PSX/N64 (Heavy Graphic) emulator, shouldn't we try to unlock that second core (We as in the sexy devs.)?
I might be wrong but in my search on the google, there is a dual core in the G1.
If that core does get unlocked, I could already imagine the battery life rofl.
im pretty sure the "second" core is actually the gpu processor on the same die.... im not 100% on this though
PSX Emulator for the HD2 looks absolutley MINT!! I would love this for my HTC Desire android device! Twisted Metal on the go would be quality!
Would probably need a Bluetooth gamepad though
I hate to rain on your all's parade, as I've looked into this for myself, but the short answer is no. The CPU+ram on the G1 just doesn't provide enough power for this Now the second core that you're talking about really isn't another cpu core. As far as I can tell, it's used for 3G data and graphics. And as CrazyEye said, a Google search turns up that the G1 is using a "multicore processor". That may not necessairly mean that the second core is locked, but rather that it's being used for other things (graphics, 3g data, etc...). The HD2 has really great specifications and boasts a lot of power (especially for a cell phone I mean DAAANG), so it handles the PSX pretty well.
Don't Forget! android apps running on Java wich is some slower and so harder on emulators etc etc...
nickeedoo said:
I hate to rain on your all's parade, as I've looked into this for myself, but the short answer is no. The CPU+ram on the G1 just doesn't provide enough power for this Now the second core that you're talking about really isn't another cpu core. As far as I can tell, it's used for 3G data and graphics. And as CrazyEye said, a Google search turns up that the G1 is using a "multicore processor". That may not necessairly mean that the second core is locked, but rather that it's being used for other things (graphics, 3g data, etc...). The HD2 has really great specifications and boasts a lot of power (especially for a cell phone I mean DAAANG), so it handles the PSX pretty well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm surprised to hear this. Considering my old dell x30h (not a phone... but a pda) on its 624Mhz xscale(an armv5 implementation), WM2k3, and positively PIDDLING 64MB Ram could run many PSX games using FpseCE. Ultimately a little frame-skip is obviously necessary, but many games would be playable with said if the buttons on said PDA weren't so absolutely HORRID. Seriously btw, worst d-pad ever.
I can't imagine the 528Mhz Qualcomm chip not being comparable. And certainly 192MB-overhead ram gives FAR more than 64MB-system overhead(which left 32-48MB for programs... depending. And believe me, it was ram that the damn thing ran out of.) Oh yes. And my ol x30h didn't even HAVE graphics acceleration. At all.
Admiteldy, it might require installing as a rooted program or some such...
But... that's just my 2 cents.
fstluxe said:
Don't Forget! android apps running on Java wich is some slower and so harder on emulators etc etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True that, but from what has been done with Kwaak 3 (http://code.google.com/p/kwaak3/), it seems like it can be done if the actual emulator library is written in C++ and has its functions wrapped and executed by the java app.
a good place to start would probably be looking at a linux based Psx Emulator
EDIT:
from ZODTTD (Great developer of numerous Emulators for iPhone):
in Dev Talk, ZodTTD News by ZodTTD on April 15th, 2010
" But most impressive of all is the 1300+ signatures received for me to support Android developments of VLC and some higher end emulators. It can be seen and supported here (http://www.petitiononline.com/ZodAndro) I’m working on getting a new Nexus One (as my previous one is on loan to a friend) so I can start developing on it."
I guess this means good things lie in our future. (well maybe not us G1 users)
going to bump this so people sign the petition above ^^
fstluxe said:
Don't Forget! android apps running on Java wich is some slower and so harder on emulators etc etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and no. Now there's native support in Android, i think its C+++ though. Still, a little closer to the hardware will help greatly with everything especially the dynarec. With a highly optimized* froyo ROM on the HTC Dream it would help even more with that Just-In-Time compiler, its probable.
*hardware acceleration, no memory leaks, minimum background tasks, maximum RAM and ROM availability
Erniemac said:
going to bump this so people sign the petition above ^^
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That petitions been signed. Zodttd has started working on psx4android.
Here's my experienced insight:
If you:
1) install the ROM stated above,
2) overclocked the device to 700MHz (stable yet faster) and
3) ran a fairly optimized emulator
you can achieve 30fps with sound for demanding titles like Tekken 3 or Gran Turismo 2. This is a fairly playable state, just consider some static in the sound and areas with many 3D objects will be visibly slow (10%) than other areas (human eye cannot detect differences past 40/45 fps).
However,
1) That ROM won't be made (hardware acceleration is tricky) or will take a few months.
2) Device OC (to make things smoother like 30fps) is no problem but isn't enough alone.
3) Zod's port won't be efficient (it never is, it will just be a dirty port like his previous work, sorry he sucks at optimizations, need more experienced and dedicated developers like in the GP32X scene).
To be frank, the G1 is a pretty good device especially unlocked ones for around AU$200.
However, it was so close but is short of greatness^. I mean PSX emulation would've been a great addition.
For greatness, HTC only needed to add:
1) more RAM (severely limited) at least 288MB like big brother Touch Pro,
2) a flashlight with the camera is very desired,
3) sometimes it lacks a little bit ROM so 512MB would've helped with those App problems.
Other things could've been added to sweeten the pot like, battery with more charge (1400mAh), front facing camera (Skype anyone?) and a stylus slot with a C-tylus.
^Many ARM11 devices out there dirtcheap, this one could've been pushed harder to make psx emulation playable even with 4M polygons/sec, which would've make it the best dirtcheap device.
PS If you want N64+Quake 3 you'd need a Cortex A8 pushed hard, and no I aint pulling numbers out of my @ss I did the research!
Also to add:
chewrawka said:
other than that i got quite a few games running decent:
(all uncompressed,and w/tp2 .ini)
gran turismo 2 (pal)- 15-25 fps.(could go a lil faster but gets choppy)
marvel vs. street fighter ex- 30-40 fps ( fun to play,just waiting for bt pad
twisted metal 2- 35-40 fps ( sometimes more, most impressive game espeacailly when alot of action is goin on no real lag).
jet moto 2- 30- 35+fps ( your call between speed and choppy, frame skip works good here) fun game...
crash bandicoot 2- 20-25 fps( game has alot of sprites like rain etc... although the game looks awesome).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a quote for (FpseCE 1.0 for HTC Touch Pro ), just to bring to your attention.
If these figures are obtained for Touch Pro (same device more RAM), and the emulator runs fully native (WinMo 6.1), the G1 is "most likely" to do worse due to obvious disadvantages. I used "most likely" since it will greatly rely on how optimized the emulator is.
I urge PSX devs to optimize the code for the G1, and even if its slow (or not yet playable) at least it would be optimized enough to run on other, more expensive, devices (eg Moto Droid) smoothly or fullspeed.
Remmember, you're only as fast as your slowest compartment. So individually removing the bottlenecks will play key in psx for many devices to come.
Edit: fixing link
Sorry for bombarding this (abandoned) thread.
But I've got some news / update.
The psx4android project is falling through. The developers of Sensoid and Gameboid (both emulators that work fullspeed on G1) have teamed up with Zodtt (iPhone fanboy & emulator developer).
Bad news is compatible with Donut and above (Android 2.0 +) so it won't be functional for the HTC Dream/G1 with that official 1.6. Luckily you have the option of "final build" (umm stable?) of Android 2.1 with the CyanogenMOD 5.0.7. This would mean you have to learn some technical things and go through the risk of bricking your phone, but are well rewarded.
More bad news is that its still early and most likely will be aimed at the Nexus One, which should run fullspeed once major bugs are removed.
And some speculation here but even more bad news is that it won't be free (judging from Zodtt's track-record of having to buy things through Cydia for iPhone Apps).
Heres the link:
http://digitaldisbeliever.net/2010/06/zodttd-is-showing-some-love-to-android/
fstluxe said:
Don't Forget! android apps running on Java wich is some slower and so harder on emulators etc etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that is not entirely correct.
The default application framework is dalvik, which is almost Java; but it is alse possibly to develop applications for android in native code, if you need to, take a look at the Android NDK.
brettf said:
from ZODTTD (Great developer of numerous Emulators for iPhone):
in Dev Talk, ZodTTD News by ZodTTD on April 15th, 2010
" But most impressive of all is the 1300+ signatures received for me to support Android developments of VLC and some higher end emulators. It can be seen and supported here (http://www.petitiononline.com/ZodAndro) I’m working on getting a new Nexus One (as my previous one is on loan to a friend) so I can start developing on it."
I guess this means good things lie in our future. (well maybe not us G1 users)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just sign in - 1932 signs now
keep signing
having an emulator made by ZodTTd would mean a verrrrryyyy poor game compatibility and very few fps.
Just look at what PSX4iphone can do on a 3GS: maybe only 2 games running full speed with sound (in fact, I think wipeout is the only games I've seen running full speed on an iphone. Youtube is full of FF7 videos but you'll never see casting big magic spells or big battles in these videos...And tekken 3 is so slow that it's just a pain...)
So if results are already poor on it's original device that has a not that bad CPU.....
i900frenchaddict said:
having an emulator made by ZodTTd would mean a verrrrryyyy poor game compatibility and very few fps.
Just look at what PSX4iphone can do on a 3GS: maybe only 2 games running full speed with sound (in fact, I think wipeout is the only games I've seen running full speed on an iphone. Youtube is full of FF7 videos but you'll never see casting big magic spells or big battles in these videos...And tekken 3 is so slow that it's just a pain...)
So if results are already poor on it's original device that has a not that bad CPU.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but the Snapdragon of the nexus one and the HTC desire is a lot faster than the Iphone 3gs. And almost every year cpu power(not mhz) is doubled. So within a year you would have a pretty good working emu on a high end android system.
Terracide said:
Yes but the Snapdragon of the nexus one and the HTC desire is a lot faster than the Iphone 3gs. And almost every year cpu power(not mhz) is doubled. So within a year you would have a pretty good working emu on a high end android system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is right that Zod won't be able to polish it as much as he does with the ones for the iPhone.
However, Zod did tell me that his N64 emulator is much more efficient than his PSX, so there is alot of room for improvement on the psx4android.
The biggest problem of course is hardware acceleration. The layers of VirtualMachine in Androids' coding allows for media to run in several standards to allow compatability at the expense of performance. And there are other factors too. For instance, the Motorola Milestone` has roughly equivalent graphics grunt as the Acer Liquid E`. However, PSX emulation should be very disappointing on the Motorola Milestone whereas it should be perfect (full speed + sound) for the Snapdragon devices.
Why? The emulators rely primarily on the CPU for drawing the graphics, where the potential of the GPU is left unused. The Motorola has a weaker CPU and decent GPU, in contrast the Snapdragon has a powerful CPU but disgraceful GPU. So the performance [of emulator] is biased towards the Snapdragon devices and that's not a good thing.
Here's why:
The CPU could do the graphics just fine it will only mean it would have to be pushed hard (more wear n tear), there won't be much processing power left (goodbye multitasking), the CPU would waste more battery than the GPU* (an important point when it comes to portability) and the emulator would run much slower^.
The future is looking at devices that have SoC's with powerful CPU's and GPU's where different cores can be shutdown. And on top of this it's looking for software that allows for cross-compatability across different processors (SoC's/x86/MIPS) within a certain level of performance loss. I see the greatest potential in MeeGo (a light and secure Linux) with cross-compatability (when based on Qt) on devices like OMAP44xx's (>1Ghz Dual Cortex 9 CPU) with modern graphics (SGX543MP8 ~ ATi HD3470). The technology is there but the market will have to mature before you can get one, ie people spending.
*usually the case when the CPU stays on idle and GPU is used but not always.
^Next gen GPU's are alot more powerful and better at drawing graphics (obviously) and can be switched off by the SoC when unused like Tegra/OMAP series.
Related
I've just posted a review of ASUS P552W. It felt to me that I should do a post of how badly the Qualcomm 528MHz processor performs against the Marvell Tavor 624MHz CPU which is there in the ASUS P552W.
True, you can easily ignore the graphic aspects as SPB Benchmark is not optimized for the Diamond's GPU, but you cannot ignore the results which measure the processing power. Here are some screenshots that I used in the review
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and here goes the screenshot for graphics
I cannot believe the Diamond performed so badly in the benchmark test
Read the full review of ASUS P552W
I don't understand why people seem so proud when they think their phones suck. This is not the first thread I've seen about it, and it won't be the last, I'm sure.
So, your Diamond sucks? Then sell it and go to another forum about your beloved soap phone.
And by the way, the benchmarks you posted have nothing to do with the processor. File system speed <> processor speed.
i hate to see people flame devices.. well all the facts were cleared out for a long time ago and to constant bring it forward is too much.. well developers works with what they have and not with what they don't so if an application works better on a asus than a diamond it doesn't mean the following appp can't be tweaked to run as great as in the asus.. well i have a touch pro and i guess the specs are about similar to diamond and i agree with Smaniac.. the benchmark do not have anything to do with the processor...
I'm not saying that I hate my Diamond. It is my primary phone and I love it. BTW, processor is involved in a lot of things if you observed the table correctly. Hardware wise, there is not much difference between the two devices. Both come with 256MB ROM and use 128MB RAM with the P552W being just 100MHz ahead.
May be it is how one company codes the drivers properly and one company does not
And no where did I say that I hate the Diamond. I said how badly Qualcomm processors compare to Marvell processors
I agree with you guys.
Entering the site and all I see is: "diamond problems", "problems", "slow","bad preformance" etc....
Personally the Diamond is the best phone out there (HD to big even though ill get one heheh)
Dont forget this device is fairly new not even a year old.
But I also have to admit, that with the specs it has it should preform much better.
Greets.
well we all or many have seen the possibilities of overclocking older htc devices so if someone figgures out of it guess the possibilities are huge.. a friend of mine have an old htc touch gsm version.. i managed to overclock it from 200 mhz to a little above 300 mhz.. well yeah it might drain once battery alot but if you underclock it will make your battery last very veeery long.. we underclocked it to 100 mhz and got around 30 minutes to 1 hour more battery.. well that was a long time ago.. i hope there are similar possibilities for the htc devices which are hot right now sooner or later.. hopefully soon lol..
Interesting review. Very good apart from some of the spelling!
I agree with some of the others - it looks like the Diamond's main trouble is the file system. does anyone know why the file system is so slow?
As for the graphics benchmark, the Diamond is VGA so it's doing at least 4 times more work, right?
Davey101 said:
...
I agree with some of the others - it looks like the Diamond's main trouble is the file system. does anyone know why the file system is so slow?
As for the graphics benchmark, the Diamond is VGA so it's doing at least 4 times more work, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second: I think you are right!
First: Maybe because of your second assumption? Don't you think that all other things are afflicted if more power is needed for the graphics?
If these assumptions are correct the comparison of this review is absolutely meaningless! And this applies to most (if not all) comparisons I've read here in the last time!
In addition: The used benchmark software:
- is 3 years old
- doesn't officially support WM 6.0 or 6.1
- is not optimised for VGA
Well, cut the poster some slack. His opinion is based on the benchmark. And when looking at that I can imagine someone is surprised about the huge difference. How the difference feels on the device is something else. But he has a point imho.
Sure with all the complaining here I can also understand why people act a bit hostile to posts like this.
But let's just face it, the Diamond is not really fast. When I compare the speed of, for example, tomtom on my Diamond and the tomtom speed on my yeeeeaaaars older Qtek s100 it's quite a difference.
From the Touch to Polaris and now the Diamond I have always been a bit dissapointed by the speeds. But I wouldnt want to trade my Diamond in for a s100 for sure! And I don't think my Diamond sucks at all. But the speed is.. well.. only bareable.
And now we see benchmarks against the Asus phone, and the feeling of slow speeds on the Diamond does seem to reflect in that as well. VGA or not, the Diamond is just slow. And I don't think it will be that much faster anytime soon.
The Asus is a phone I'm really looking into and want to give a test run soon. And perhaps it could replace my Diamond and perhaps it cannot. Who knows.
I don't feel the least offended or attacked by the OP. And he doesn't say the Diamond sucks at all. He was just amazed by the difference in speed in the benchmark. And so am I
OK guys...I will tell you something... diamond is good PPC but should be so much faster with marvell processor in many ways like GPS navigation, watching videos (not only in purchase must coreplayer with QTV) etc,...so why you just confess it...we are all victims of HTCs finnancial policy and sadly I have to say not only HTCs...
Davey101 said:
Interesting review. Very good apart from some of the spelling!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What spelling?
kdskamal said:
I've just posted a review of ASUS P552W. It felt to me that I should do a post of how badly the Qualcomm 528MHz processor performs against the Marvell Tavor 624MHz CPU which is there in the ASUS P552W.
True, you can easily ignore the graphic aspects as SPB Benchmark is not optimized for the Diamond's GPU, but you cannot ignore the results which measure the processing power. Here are some screenshots that I used in the review
and here goes the screenshot for graphics
I cannot believe the Diamond performed so badly in the benchmark test
Read the full review of ASUS P552W
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the only things being compared here are file system and graphics processing. If you mean processor as CPU,then this has nothing to do with CPU.
Hello
I was thinking that even if the CPU was great, if the file system is slow the Diamond CPU will be waiting for data... and thus be slow.
So even if the benchmark seems to show File System benchmark (I'm not a benchmark specialist) I guess it must have somehow some impacts on the global speed of the Diamond.
I guess that even if we use a Marvell/QualComm/Coca-Cola CPU inside a smartphone if other hardware inside the device are bull****, then everything will be slow. This is exactly the same that in a full size computer. The device component quality should be homogeneous.
Maybe the flash component used for the memory in the Diamond are piece of crap, this could explain some strange behavior on the phone (like the enormous time needed to delete files in the Opera cache for instance) which does not require a lot of CPU obviously ans should be fast.
One last thing: Merry Diamond Christmas
So the benchmarks are poo, device still works ok for me so they mean nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Is it the best phone in the world??? Proably not but for the money and what I need it for, its just dandy.
As it is my 7the I just can say they get better all the time
The Diamond is my 7th windows device and when I bought it I was not ready with my Trinity P3600, just cause the 9100 of my daughter bricket was the reason why I bought it, but I must say that I never had the feeling of wanting my P3600 back, the only thing I miss is a integrated keyboard, my own fault cause I couldn't wait for the pro, but as far as performance its THE best phone I owned untill now, ofcourse there are a few things which I think could be better and I believe if HTC continue the way they do then they maid grow bigger then Nokia in the future, and ofcourse after that HTC is the biggest there will come some other phone whit more possebillitys.
I just realise that I can't compare my phone to a Nikon D3Xi and therefore the camera is just a piece of ballast which I never use , but with my camera I can't phone and if I could it doesn't fit in my pocket .
I remeber my anger with the first windows phone I had the Orange 100 (can't even remember the realtype) but what I do remember the problems one by one are being solved and not in the last place here at this forum where I find a lot of dedicated and friendley people, complains about HTC? When I bought my Diamond I had some troubles with the network I didn't now that you must use best performance in stead of best battery, I contacted HTC and the wanted to pickup the phone next day, in the mean time found the problem and phoned them and send a fax that there was no need for the pickup nex day 2 times a courier at my doorbel to pickup the phone after that they have phoned me for about 7 times or it still was working, I don't believe it could be better.
Of course there are comming new phones and I don't want to say that I will keep my Diamond for ever cause I now when the next phone shows up I will get that irrisistable feeling of wnating that phone and yess Apple has discovered that smartphones pressent a big marked with lots of customers which are not like most people here who want the last bit of performance but in stead a stablephone which does what its made for and nothing more, in the mean time I am happy whit my phone and if I see the reactions around me I am not the only one.
W'll see what next year will bring I am stock for next year with my Diamond cause for the first time in my life I bought it for 18 months and just except some minor reasons I don't have the feeling yet to give this phone to my daughter ( and believe me she is looking desperate for an other phone for me )
My 2 cents
Happy newyear
Willem
Well, for some reason my biggest issue with HTC phones nowadays is that they all seem to be slower than what I remember from my Qtek s100 (mda compact). Which is especially noticable with tomtom. Tomtom was super smooth on the s100 as far as I can remember.
Then the Touch came after a while, and that was a huge step backwards in speed. I was hoping the Polaris would regain the speed. But that was a bit of a dissapointment as well. Things looked up with the Diamond, but that one still lacks in the speed department. When looking at the specs it should be a really fast phone. But it just doesn't feel fast at all.
Sure, it's VGA has far better (and more demanding) WM 6.1 and software which obviously slows it down as well.
Maybe it's just some nostalgic feeling from the s100 (and that one had some major issues for sure). But speedwise things just don't feel as fast as it should be. Or at least how they -could- be when looking at the specs! (is a big difference).
That being said, I'm very happy with my Diamond. Even when it doesn't feel al that fast (used most of the ROMS here on xda, and speed is much better than it was originally) it's still one of the most complete phones so far. And I wouldn't want to trade it back for any other phone I've owned so far for sure!
But! This Asus phone looks really promising. If it's that much faster (e.g. speedy feeling is the same as benchmark difference) I'd be happy to trade in VGA and take the Asus. Especially when apps like TomTom finally work smooth again. And not only TomTom, but also video playback and all kinds of other apps.
But it's all very personal. If you go from a HTC Touch to a Diamond you would probably think "wtf, slow?! This thing is lightning fast!!!".
RaptorRVL said:
Well, for some reason my biggest issue with HTC phones nowadays is that they all seem to be slower than what I remember from my Qtek s100 (mda compact). Which is especially noticable with tomtom. Tomtom was super smooth on the s100 as far as I can remember.
Then the Touch came after a while, and that was a huge step backwards in speed. I was hoping the Polaris would regain the speed. But that was a bit of a dissapointment as well. Things looked up with the Diamond, but that one still lacks in the speed department. When looking at the specs it should be a really fast phone. But it just doesn't feel fast at all.
Sure, it's VGA has far better (and more demanding) WM 6.1 and software which obviously slows it down as well.
Maybe it's just some nostalgic feeling from the s100 (and that one had some major issues for sure). But speedwise things just don't feel as fast as it should be. Or at least how they -could- be when looking at the specs! (is a big difference).
That being said, I'm very happy with my Diamond. Even when it doesn't feel al that fast (used most of the ROMS here on xda, and speed is much better than it was originally) it's still one of the most complete phones so far. And I wouldn't want to trade it back for any other phone I've owned so far for sure!
But! This Asus phone looks really promising. If it's that much faster (e.g. speedy feeling is the same as benchmark difference) I'd be happy to trade in VGA and take the Asus. Especially when apps like TomTom finally work smooth again. And not only TomTom, but also video playback and all kinds of other apps.
But it's all very personal. If you go from a HTC Touch to a Diamond you would probably think "wtf, slow?! This thing is lightning fast!!!".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came from P3600 and speed wasn't a major problem with it but I am shore of 1 thing the Tomtom which I have at my Diamond is by far THE fastest I ever owned and I came from a fixed Pioneer nav system where I never thought that a such small app could compet whit it and still I have with my Pioneer a fix at the moment that I connect my engine but TomTom at my phone isn't much slower it takes at max 30sec to get afix which is the time I need to fasten my seatbelt and start driving, even a long distance trip is calculated in reasonable time this was much different at my P3600 which never could make a calculation for example from my home to Madrid cause of nor enough memory for the Diamond no problem at all, the only problem which Tomtom gives me lateley is that it locksup for some reason which I didn't discover yet, its not because the trip is long which tomtom calculates it can be on any kind of trip.
I agree that the Touch 3d software was the firstone which I gave a kick and can't say I miss it.
Willem
the device "feels" slow because theres no 2d acceleration drivers. If it had that,this device would feel like lightning. the cpu is good,the gpu is good,the rest of the hardware is amazing. theres 3d drivers now,but the last missing piece is 2d drivers that use the gpu.
deuillevent said:
Hello
I was thinking that even if the CPU was great, if the file system is slow the Diamond CPU will be waiting for data...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no,since data is usually put in RAM and then executed from there,not directly from file.
Diamond...
I love my Diamond, faults an' all... just like my wife!
I plan on buying the X1 when I get my $5500 next week. My most recent phone was the Motorola Rokr E6(Linux Based) and I'm coming from the Motorola Deveploment Community. I've owned a Sony before (W810i) and loved it, so I want to get the X1. I've never used WM before So I hope modding won't be hard to learn. My questions are: Is there Emulaters for the X1 like Nitendo, Super Nitendo, Sega, GBA, N64, and PS1. I had these on my E6 and loved them. Also what about the Doom expansions and Quake expansions as well, I also played these on my E6. Aslo can we overclock the processor and use Swap partions to, Also things I loved about the E6. I looked in the thread for noob questions but 4 pages in it was just people saying how much they don't like noobs posting unneccesary posts and how much they don't like noobs basically so I stopped looking in the thread and decided to post this thread. I aplogize if these questions were posted somewhere else. Thank you for your time and I can't wait to learn WM modding.
All the Emulators are performing like crap (on the MSM720*).
Only (low action) SNES games on Morphgear, like Mario or other lame games (sorry but i hate platforms) where actually able to play on a decent framerate.
Secret of Mana for example was unplayable, unless you like humongous lag. Enabling sound only makes it worse. At the time I actually gave a crap about it, I couldnt stand playing it any longer then 10 minutes, since the qwerty keyboard is not usuable for gaming (in a comfort way, it functions fine in morphgear)
Emulation on WM6.1 is bull****, apart from the PS1 emulator that is, even though the MSM7200 is immensely underpowered for it, seeing that thing on a Snapdragon or OMAP3 chipset (youtube it) is pure awesomeness.
My S.E. M600 did GBA/SEGA Genesis emulation about 4 times as fast, and thats with an 208Mhz ARM9 chip.
Do not buy the X1 if you like playing (console) games.
SomeoneSimple said:
All the Emulators are performing like crap (on the MSM720*).
Only (low action) SNES games on Morphgear, like Mario or other lame games (sorry but i hate platforms) where actually able to play on a decent framerate.
Secret of Mana for example was unplayable, unless you like humongous lag. Enabling sound only makes it worse. At the time I actually gave a crap about it, I couldnt stand playing it any longer then 10 minutes, since the qwerty keyboard is not usuable for gaming (in a comfort way, it functions fine in morphgear)
Emulation on WM6.1 is bull****, apart from the PS1 emulator that is, even though the MSM7200 is immensely underpowered for it, seeing that thing on a Snapdragon or OMAP3 chipset is pure awesomeness.
My S.E. M600 did GBA/SEGA Genesis emulation about 4 times as fast, and thats with an 208Mhz ARM9 chip.
Do not buy the X1 if you like playing (console) games.
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Thanks for the reply, My E6 had a intel PXA270 chipset clocked at 312mhz but with overclocking I could boost it to 528mhz and 620mhz and that vastly improved gaming, Can we do this on the X1?. And what about Doom and Quake.
Welcome to the forums .
1 - Yes. Most will have some lag, but the good thing is there are many to choose from. MorphGear, PicoDrive PocketNES, PocketSNES, etc. The emulator gaming is enjoyable, but will perfect.
You have a choice of hundreds of WinMo games + Java games + PC ports like StarCraft and Diablo, so there are plenty of games.
2 - Yes, you can play them on the X1. Quake is not modified for the WVGA resolution AFAIK, but Quake 3 is playable with a slow framerate. Doom worked only once for me, but I didn't bother to fix it. I just don't find those type of games playable without a mouse...
3 - No overclocking for the X1 so far. There are a couple of programs, but they either do nothing, or start once and then freeze.
Use search, read, learn and feel free to ask questions after that .
@orelsi thanks so much for the info. Sweet we can play Starcraft and Diablo. Dam no overclocking thats a shame. hmm so quake and doom are not made for the 800x400 res, thats okay I bet there is alot of 3d java games for the X1. And yes next time I wll use the search I just really needed to know these answers, and get a chance to talk to some members.
Double post. Mods, please delete it.
I'm glad that I was able to help .
About the games. When I got the X1, I was thinking that I would play games on it all the time. Well... it didn't work out that way lol. Between the browsing, reading rss feeds and books, tweaking options, mp3s, clips, etc. I barely got time for a quick game haha.
All the games are just rusting in the corner.
Nevertheless, when you think how hot StarCraft was back in the day and that now you can carry it in your pocket..... makes you wonder about the future .
Check out this list of games. It can give you a general idea:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=522761
SomeoneSimple said:
All the Emulators are performing like crap (on the MSM720*).
Only (low action) SNES games on Morphgear, like Mario or other lame games (sorry but i hate platforms) where actually able to play on a decent framerate.
Secret of Mana for example was unplayable, unless you like humongous lag. Enabling sound only makes it worse. At the time I actually gave a crap about it, I couldnt stand playing it any longer then 10 minutes, since the qwerty keyboard is not usuable for gaming (in a comfort way, it functions fine in morphgear)
Emulation on WM6.1 is bull****, apart from the PS1 emulator that is, even though the MSM7200 is immensely underpowered for it, seeing that thing on a Snapdragon or OMAP3 chipset (youtube it) is pure awesomeness.
My S.E. M600 did GBA/SEGA Genesis emulation about 4 times as fast, and thats with an 208Mhz ARM9 chip.
Do not buy the X1 if you like playing (console) games.
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Click to collapse
Have been playing Chrono Trigger on Morphgear for months and no problem for me.
And if you can stand the black bar on the side of the screen, quake not being WVGA shouldn't be a problem.
One last thing, What about Swap Partions for the X1?
harveydent said:
Have been playing Chrono Trigger on Morphgear for months and no problem for me.
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Well, I might've took things out of context, but i was REALLY disappointed in the Emulation capabilities of my X1.
I remember completely finishing multiple action-oriented SEGA Genesis games on my S.E. M600i (208mhz ARM9), Sonic&Knuckles (very fast platform), Streets of Rage (beat em up), Vectorman (action, platform), and some mickeymouse game (action/platform). All of these had perfect stereo sound, and i often had a framerate above realtime.
Then you can understand, that when i got my X1 (totally excited about its WAY FASTER CPU) and booted up similar games, i was extremely confused that i had no sound (without screwing my fps even more), terrible framerate and TBH, awefull controlls. That is the reason, why i think the X1, and all similar, underpowered Windows Mobile devices, is a PITA to play emulated games on.
About the swap. We dont have it (AFAIK), and we'll never need it. My percentage of Ram usage is always under 90%, no matter how many apps i open. Mainly this is because of a (IMO retarded) 16MB/32MB Ram per app limit.
I didn't think the nook color would play higher end games, but so far I'm really impressed. I have the following running quite well so far:
Raging Thunder 2
Asphalt 5
N.O.V.A.
Dungeon Hunter
Dungeon Defenders
Krazy Kart Racing
Pool Break Pro
Oh, and the graphically intense Angry Birds and Angry Birds seasons...
It also runs the Snesoid/Gensoid/Nesoid emulators perfectly. I wasn't expecting that just looking at the clockspeed (800mhz)
I'm not surprised because I know that the NC contains the same PowerVR GPU that the Mid-Range Droid X / Droid 2 devices do. I've run "Dungeon Defenders" (first game powered by Unreal Engine and more graphically intense than Angry Birds) and it runs fairly smooth. The high end devices like those of the Galaxy S family have even more powerful PowerVR GPU and run it better of course. The PowerVR GPU model in Apple's products is between the NC and the SGS family if anyone is interested.
epakrat75 said:
I'm not surprised because I know that the NC contains the same PowerVR GPU that the Mid-Range Droid X / Droid 2 devices do. I've run "Dungeon Defenders" (first game powered by Unreal Engine and more graphically intense than Angry Birds) and it runs fairly smooth. The high end devices like those of the Galaxy S family have even more powerful PowerVR GPU and run it better of course. The PowerVR GPU model in Apple's products is between the NC and the SGS family if anyone is interested.
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The latest generation of Apple products actually use virtually the same processor as the Hummingbird found in the Samsung products. They use the same PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
But Apple seems to set mystery clocks on their A4 chips that appear to vary depending on the device. So the iPad's CPU/GPU appear to be clocked higher than the iPhone's. The iPhone may or may not dynamically clock up though based on what I've read.
An iPad should have identical performance to a Galaxy Tab though as far as raw hardware power goes. Any differences are likely purely in software.
pfcwintergreen said:
It also runs the Snesoid/Gensoid/Nesoid emulators perfectly. I wasn't expecting that just looking at the clockspeed (800mhz)
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Id be mad if it couldnt handle those, my old 200mhz Wing managed that.
tekdemon said:
The latest generation of Apple products actually use virtually the same processor as the Hummingbird found in the Samsung products. They use the same PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
An iPad should have identical performance to a Galaxy Tab though as far as raw hardware power goes. Any differences are likely purely in software.
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Not quite true, the A4 iOS line is still using a SGX535 (same as the 3GS). Capable GPU, bit better than the 530 on the Nook Color (and Moto Droid line) but not up to par with the 540 on the Galaxy Hummingbird in terms of specs (it's about half as fast as the 540).
But, unlike the 540, the 535 is actually being used for UI acceleration on the iOS devices, giving them that trademark smoothness in everyday use, making iOS devices feel much faster than Android.
Croak said:
Not quite true, the A4 iOS line is still using a SGX535 (same as the 3GS). Capable GPU, bit better than the 530 on the Nook Color (and Moto Droid line) but not up to par with the 540 on the Galaxy Hummingbird in terms of specs (it's about half as fast as the 540).
But, unlike the 540, the 535 is actually being used for UI acceleration on the iOS devices, giving them that trademark smoothness in everyday use, making iOS devices feel much faster than Android.
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From what I could find it's only slightly better than the 530 and merely amounts to a slight clock freq increase... the 540 was PowerVR's big perf change.
Anyways, I'm not surprised that these games run OK given that this is likely the level of hw that they were targeted at. Next year might bring some problems as more games will be targeted at Tegra 2.
game performance of NC is great, but I hate the poor video playback capabilities, I admire Samsung galaxy can play 720p mkv files without any problem because most of my movies are 720p mkv files.
Sent from my LogicPD Zoom2 using XDA App
ctos said:
game performance of NC is great, but I hate the poor video playback capabilities, I admire Samsung galaxy can play 720p mkv files without any problem because most of my movies are 720p mkv files.
Sent from my LogicPD Zoom2 using XDA App
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I broke down and picked one up yesterday, but it's going back since I'm finding it way too hard to insert the mini-USB and couldn't manage it at all this morning. Anyways, NC is nowhere near as fast as Tegra 2. It's not bad, definitely better than ARM11, but still... not even close to Tegra 2...
...going to give B&N one more shot at not trying to sell sh!t quality for $250...
pfcwintergreen said:
It also runs the Snesoid/Gensoid/Nesoid emulators perfectly. I wasn't expecting that just looking at the clockspeed (800mhz)
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Where can I get the emulators?
bassrebel said:
Where can I get the emulators?
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Either get market going, or find them elsewhere online... IIRC they're paid apps, but there might be some free ones for Genesis, SNES, & gb...
(Got a replacement NC. Idiot guy in the store was trying to tell no, thats as far as it goes, it's OK... so I asked got power? Yep. Plug it in. See no nice shiny LED lighting up on the cable... tries their store charger same deal as my cable, tries the demo unit and in it goes...
I tried the new one's cable BEFORE I left the store this time, but when I got home and started it charging I find that I have one with the SUPER sensitive touch screen...)
I haven't been too happy with gaming performance on this. Mostly because many of my games look like this...
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
They don't play full screen and look bad. That screenshot was from Raging Thunder 2 Lite.
Wonder if the Spare Parts trick we used for the Galaxy Tab will work on the NC.
I'm not rooted* and don't plan to be or I'd test it.
But basically, you install Spare Parts from the Market, fire it up, check Compatibility mode if it is unchecked, or uncheck it if it checked, reboot the device, then un-check or check Compatibility mode one more time, reboot again, and it will start stretching apps to full screen.
*Not rooting because I already have the far more capable, faster, lighter/smaller Galaxy Tab for full-on tablet duties. The dirt cheap Nook Color is probably going to be my dedicated bathroom device (replacing my Kindle WiFi) for throne and tub reading. I won't miss the eInk at all indoors, so the Kindle will now be just for camping trips thanks to its incredible battery life and outdoor-friendly display.
camwinnn said:
Id be mad if it couldnt handle those, my old 200mhz Wing managed that.
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only reason im suprised it runs the "oid" emulators so well is because they run pitifully slow on my android phone running at 600mhz. naturally i concluded that the app required alot of juice to run properly. maybe its a software problem on my phone
Ravynmagi said:
I haven't been too happy with gaming performance on this. Mostly because many of my games look like this...
They don't play full screen and look bad. That screenshot was from Raging Thunder 2 Lite.
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Yeah, spare parts & the compatibility setting gets you full screen, or at least in everything that I've tried on various devices so far, and no incompatibilities yet either.
Ravynmagi said:
I haven't been too happy with gaming performance on this. Mostly because many of my games look like this...
They don't play full screen and look bad. That screenshot was from Raging Thunder 2 Lite.
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Yeah, you need to do the Spare Parts fix (that's what I did). All of the games I listed play fullscreen (Raging Thunder 2 included) and are the HD versions. They actually look and play great.
cutterjohn said:
I broke down and picked one up yesterday, but it's going back since I'm finding it way too hard to insert the mini-USB.
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LOL! That's probably because it's a Micro-USB rather than Mini-USB. They're similar connectors but are certainly different enough that you won't succeed in inserting one into the other. I certainly wouldn't fault B&N or the NC for that.
cutterjohn said:
Anyways, NC is nowhere near as fast as Tegra 2.
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It was never advertised as such or intended to be. It's common knowledge (especially here) that the NC only sports a PowerVR 530 (unlike the 535 in the iPad). The Tegra 2 is even faster than the 540. Of course the NC wouldn't be anywhere near as fast. LOL! Perhaps, you should return just return the NC and purchase an actual tablet like the ViewSonic G-Tablet with it's awful screen for much more $$$ instead of an E-Reader if you have such high expectations.
epakrat75 said:
Perhaps, you should return just return the NC and purchase an actual tablet like the ViewSonic G-Tablet with it's awful screen for much more $$$ instead of an E-Reader if you have such high expectations.
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God, I couldn't believe how bad the G-Tablet screen was. Bought one from Office Depot when visiting my family for Christmas, because my Dad fell in love with my Galaxy Tab, and I thought it would make a nice gift for him. The display unit was locked down to the kiosk tight, so I was always looking at it from above in landscape mode.
Lucky for me, I decided to play with it and get it set up for him before wrapping it. Made me sick how bad it was off-angle, not to mention the blizzard of force closes on the very first boot up. Took it back and got him an Acer 10" netbook instead, which he does love.
I'm positive B&N is losing money on the NC, based on what they had to have spent on the display alone. Somebody there bought a clue or two when they opted for high-end parts and farmed out the industrial design to a real design firm. I imagine they've sold thousands upon thousands of these things just on the look and feel, functionality be damned. I know that's why I impulse bought one even though I already own and love a Galaxy Tab.
What is the fix? I am wanting to get magic gem to play full screen. I downloaded spare parts from the market but didn't see any option that would help.
sent from nook color
ethion said:
What is the fix? I am wanting to get magic gem to play full screen. I downloaded spare parts from the market but didn't see any option that would help.
sent from nook color
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10224035&postcount=13
forgiveness if this is wrong info, but i believe many of the first gen WP7 devices are using the same snapdragon CPU and GPU combo as the nexus one, the adreno 2.5 i believe. yet those devices are smooth as butter on all parts of the OS, including any web page you throw at the browser.
is there a reason why the same is not achieved on the nexus one and android phones? i assume its down to drivers, but seems silly that android wouldnt be similar...anyone have insight with this?
Minus the x,y axis touch screen limitation my n1 is pretty smooth all around, what sort of differences do you see ?
disgustip8ted said:
Minus the x,y axis touch screen limitation my n1 is pretty smooth all around, what sort of differences do you see ?
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Don't get me wrong, my nexus one is smooth as butter in 95% of all areas. Home screen scrolling and transitions easily must be hitting 50fps. But certain websites like engadget or this forum can skip a tad. Throw those same sites on new windows phone and It's smooth as butter.
I just wonder how this is possible with the same chip set, especially considering how our adreno is supposedly not the best.
do you have the "enable plug-ins" setting in the browser set to "on demand"?
i have mine like this and xda loads pretty quick, ondemand just lets you tap on a flash item when you want it to be rendered.
Yes on demand has been set for many months. I'm not talking about load speed, but scrolling smoothness once loaded. There are minor examples else where in the OS. But in general I'm wondering about drivers between the 2 platforms. You'd prob have to use a phone to see.
ill check out my friend's wp7 tomorrow at work. i cant get my phone to be choppy on this thread or the main thread or the gigglebread thread zoomed in or fully zoomed out :\
Probably cuz the browser on WP7 is based off the best internet browser EVER. Duh!
</sarcasm>
But seriously, it's a different OS, and the browser is different than ours. My wife had an HTC Surround for about a month (returned it cuz of lack of apps right now), and I will say, it was a pretty nice phone. Maybe after a few updates it'll be something to look into again, but right now, it's at the beginning of it's life, so there's a lot missing in my opinion.
It's all about code optimization, proper drivers, hardware accelerated graphics...
since android must run on many devices with many different cpus they can't optimize everything for the snapdragon, as they've done with WP7.
elmerendeiro said:
It's all about code optimization, proper drivers, hardware accelerated graphics...
since android must run on many devices with many different cpus they can't optimize everything for the snapdragon, as they've done with WP7.
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that's kinda the direction i was going. i wonder if this is something that qualcomm perhaps helps microsoft with providing optimized drivers, or they were paid to do so. it just shows how the snapdragon and adreno are pretty powerful but get a lot of negative talk around the community for it's graphics capability.
seeing as it was goog;e's first and initial phone, its too bad they did not attempt the similar performance optimizations. i mean each individual phone needs device specific drivers anyway, so its too bad they didnt take it to that next level.
Someone on Slashdot linked to a very interesting article relating to this problem.
Google "The Care and Feeding of the Android GPU"
(Note: This has probably been posted on the forums before, but it seemed worth adding to the current conversation)
EDIT: Wow. Terrible grammar. Wish I could blame Swype, but I'm pretty sure I'm just a moron lol.
inconceeeivable said:
Someone on Slashdot linked to a very interested article relating to this problem.
Google "The Care and Feeding of the Android GPU"
(Note: This has probably been posted on the forums before, but it seemed worth adding to the current conversation)
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actually this totally answers my question. thanks. reading that slashdot article, there are some great comments at the bottom, one with a link to anandtech article about WP7 and GPU's etc. also a former google employee commented on the topic.
so basically yes MS very tightly controls things and wanted it that way. android has to code for common devices across many manufacturers etc.
one interesting thing the anandtech article says that WP7 is capped at 30 FPS by microsoft due to battery concerns. some dev's complained. remember the EVO had that cap, and it sucks because of it. but playing with WP7 devices i didnt notice it a bit. strange.
and the real answer as others have said in the past is lack of UI hardward acceleration. interesting topci on google bug tracker explains it all. but 3.0 seems to fix it!
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=6914
Simple, there is no hardware acceleration in the UI. Only apps that are programmed to use the GPU will use it.
Android needs a virtual machine, W7 doesn't, it runs native on the hardware. Full native support.
holy crap, i just watched a video of android which DOES have full graphics hardware acceleration thru the enture UI, and nearly crapped my pants. talk about iphone-like smoothness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpH3oX9RhIE
Hi guys,
In case you don't already know this superb racing game with unmatched graphics and gameplay you really must check it out.
http://youtu.be/TOfG1zJbKbQ
The game features licensed cars and 15 player multyplayer mode.
Please help drawing the developer's attention to port this game in android market and leave your thoughts here: getsatisfaction.com/firemint/topics/will_real_racing_2_get_in_the_android_store
Sorry but i think this ain't gonna happen. This is a real console quality game, they spent a lot of money to develop it and optimize it to make it work perfectly for the a5 soc: porting it to Android will lead to insane costs in order to make it suitable for a hundred different pieces of hardware.
Nowadays Apple's app store sells 85% of all the mobile apps in the world, a serious game developer with working brain cells will never spend millions just in order to get to that additional 15% of the market that we represent. Also i'm pretty sure that even the most powerful hardware we have now on this platform would be unable to run this game properly: the gpu in the a5 soc is twice as powerful as the mali-400 in the GS2...
vnvman said:
Apple's app store sells 85% of all the mobile apps in the world
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just wow, wasn't aware of this fact
vnvman said:
the gpu in the a5 soc is twice as powerful as the mali-400 in the GS2...
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i'm just stunned, in every video comparasson of 4s and sgs2 the iphone gets bashed... come to think of it nobody mentioned in any comparassion (and i watch a lot) about the gpu/chipset diferrences... i guess it's never gonna be a fair "trail" between them and everybody is more or less a "fanboy" of either two..
L.E. after your post did some research and found this http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111026235448AArPNUy , it explains everything.
Thanks and ppl might as well leave this topic to "die"...
Well actually when i say that the gpu of the iPhone is faster i mean it really is faster, even on paper: it's not a matter of software. I read it here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4686/samsung-galaxy-s-2-international-review-the-best-redefined/17
When i got this phone i knew that the iPhone4s (or even the iPhone4) would have been better for games, but all in all despite the fact that mobile games can be fun at times mobile gaming in general kinda sucks in my opinion: sure you can have the best graphics in the world and whatnot, but the only games you can really play on a small touchscreen panel without going nuts are puzzle games (which look great on the huge Samoled+ of this phone), and those ones run on pretty much every piece of junk. At the end of the day those are the games you play the most when you're on the go, while instead those haeavy 3d games are mostly useless because of their complexity (not to mention the amount of battery they drain), so you end up playing them when you are at home on the coach. This sounds pointless to me because if i'm at home i'd rather like to play Battlefield 3 on my gaming rig: now this makes sense, don't you think?
Real Racing 2 was released yesterday...just saying...
What the.. EA? The original maker is Firemint?
Either way, here's the link. Only compatible with my Desire HD, and not the Galaxy Note? What the...
https://market.android.com/details?...yLDEsImNvbS5lYS5nYW1lLnJlYWxyYWNpbmcyX3JvdyJd
Article:
http://phandroid.com/2011/12/22/rea...the-android-market-leaves-part-1-in-the-dust/
LordManhattan said:
Only compatible with my Desire HD, and not the Galaxy Note? What the...
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You could test this version for your Note: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.ea.game.realracing2_na (not sure if it's compatible though).
Thanks, but it's a no go Just have to wait i guess.