Database Develop

Cooked ROM = More Memory?

I know the WM6.1 ROM footprint on my HTC is 128MB. But if I download and install a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM (without all the OEM junk), will that amount of memory be returned to the system for program use? IOW, if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use? Or are all ROMs going to consume 128MB no matter what they do (or don't) include?

BillTheCat said:
if I find a cooked ROM that's 100MB, will that give me 28MB more RAM for program use?
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It would give you more ROM, not RAM. That is, storage available for files and/or installed programs. The amount used by the ROM indeed depends on the software it already includes.

Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it? Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
For some reason, I remember on my HX4700 there was much dissatisfaction when WM went to v.5, because we always had the ability to move the system memory between storage space and runtime space. I guess the hardware on the Kaiser is operating differently then.
Please help me make sure I'm understanding this right.
What I need to do is to learn how to cook my own ROM based on a minimalistic starter, so I can pack in what I want to run, getting it out of RAM and off into ROM, right? IOW, I need to figure out how to move TomTom, MobileShell and other such applications that install resident to the device into ROM, freeing up the amount of storage/RAM that I have to work with. Correct?
If so, then one last question. What happens when I build in programs to ROM and then there are updates?

as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram

BillTheCat said:
Ah. So the game is that the ROM footprint consumes 128MB, no matter what's in it?
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No. The Kaiser has 256MB of Flash memory. Part of it will be used as ROM, the exact amount depending on how much software is included in there. Usually 100-150MB, and those are write-protected. The rest is available as read-write storage.
BillTheCat said:
Is it safe to presume that WM is still using RAM for both storage and program execution?
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No. From WM5 on (like 3 years ago), file storage isn't done in RAM anymore but in the flash memory as described above. This allowed to prevent the problem where you'd lose all your stuff if your battery went down. Now you can remove the battery indefinitely without losing anything.
RAM is therefore only used for program execution. The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.

Rudegar said:
as of wm5 storage is rom
and application memory is ram
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Yeah, that's what I thought. So, then I'm right in that the thing to do is to maximize RAM by moving resident applications into the ROM to free up RAM, yes?

You can't do that. Read my post above for more detail, might have missed it as we posted pretty much simultaneously.

kilrah said:
The Kaiser will have around 50-70MB RAM free after booting depending on your start-up apps, which is WAY enough not to have to worry about it.
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Then if I'm reading you right, your feeling seems to suggest that investing a lot of effort in cooking my own ROM isn't necessary; that if I get a 'minimalistic' cooked ROM and install my own applications, it's effectively the same thing? IOW, a smaller footprint ROM will increase room for storage of programs and documents by eliminating some OEM stuff that's perhaps unnecessary, yes?
I guess the things that I could do without are these below:
- Getting Started (A bit late for this now!)
- Windows Live (Do you really need this?)
- Voice Speed Dial (MS Voice Command instead?)
- File Explorer & Zip (Both these are handled by Virtual Explorer)
- Windows Update (If it worked, would we be here?)
However as I don't know how big these things are, I may find that it's a lot of extra effort for not a lot of gain.
Your thoughts?

Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.

Here are some numbers, if you're interested.. This is going from a hard reset Tilt stock rom (Although I soft-reset before it installed AT&Ts crap so these numbers are BETTER than the typical stock AT&T Tilt) vs ROMeOS v4.1.
Code:
AT&T Stock ROM (hard reset, no AT&T customization)
Storage: 124.91 Program: 101.38
In Use : 10.17 In use : 27.20
Free : 114.74 Free : 74.20
ROMeOS 4.1
Storage: 150.59 Program: 85.32
In use : 3.90 In Use : 29.00
Free : 146.70 Free : 56.32
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure. I've personally never had an issue with getting low on program ram. It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )

kilrah said:
Exact. Everything you install will end in Flash memory, whether it's cooked in the ROM or installed later. The only difference is that if cooked it will be in the write-protected part and will still be there when you hard reset, unlike the apps you install later.
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A completely unnecessary concern, when you have SPB backup.
I've got my head around this now. Thanks so much, you've been very helpful and I appreciate your effort.

khaytsus said:
As for the program ram being down 20M, I think this is because the ROMeOS ROM has dynamic page pool so it adjusts itself as necessary, but I'm not sure... It's certainly nice having 30M more of storage space (not to mention the whole thing being snappier and the interface responds quicker, but enough advertisement for the ROM )
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Yes, I understand there is an advantage to a 'cooked' ROM. Does anyone know offhand if the HTC OEM 6.1 ROM has some of the performance 'tweaks' you suggest above, or should I just back up and experiment?
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.

BillTheCat said:
What I'm getting at is that if reflashing is only going to deliver a nominal performance benefit over the HTC ROM, it's not really worth the effort for me.
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Yes and no. Remember, It also adds more storage for you too! This might not be as important to you as it is to me though. The only application i prefer to be installed to my SD card is TomTom, and thats because all of the maps have to be there anyway. I use several MicroSD cards Daily ( have 3 4gb cards ) ( one for videos, one for tomtom, and one for photos/backup cabs/ect ). Being able to have enough ROM open for me to install all of my apps is important to me. Its not just a speed factor, but ive actually run out of ROM space before..... not a fun thing to hunt down whats taking up all your space. Cooked ROMS open up more space by removing all that Garbage from manufacturers ( We call it Bloatware) and makes more room for my stuff to go
Also, I dont think any OEM HTC ROMS have Kaisertweek or any other registry modifications. Granted, you could just download a registry editor and a tweek program, having the goodies already there and the junk removed makes for a faster / easier start if you flash as much as some of us do lol.
Just my opinion.

Not enough free space for installing programs

How to install more programs when 256 MB of ROM are full. Can I install more programs on microSD cards? And how?

Constantinff said:
How to install more programs when 256 MB of ROM are full. Can I install more programs on microSD cards? And how?
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Well when you run .cab on phone it asks for place to install choose Storage Card.
Also as a rule i use only Device Memory for programs that load on startup or need fast access and Movie player to take load off Storage Card. Keeping as much space on Device memory as possible so the device runs @ optimum.
Hope that helps.

Hope that helps.[/QUOTE]
It does indeed help ! And though I didn' have a problem, since I "behave" z same as you "instructed" up here, since ages, but I needed to say BIG THANK YOU for your instant & redundant help to others in this freakin'-sweet community Stylez, God bless you Bro

tauriq said:
It does indeed help ! And though I didn' have a problem, since I "behave" z same as you "instructed" up here, since ages, but I needed to say BIG THANK YOU for your instant & redundant help to others in this freakin'-sweet community Stylez, God bless you Bro
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You probably meant "instant and ready help"... redundant means useless! Sure you didn't mean that

moonray said:
You probably meant "instant and ready help"... redundant means useless! Sure you didn't mean that
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Oh sometimes i feel a bit redundant
Thankyou tauriq for kind words

stylez said:
Also as a rule i use only Device Memory for programs that load on startup or need fast access and Movie player to take load off Storage Card. Keeping as much space on Device memory as possible so the device runs @ optimum. ...
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So Stylez, do you use Schaps Advance Config? If you do, under locations do you change any of the default locations to point to the mem card (besides of course My docs, pics, vids, downloads)
You seem to be quite the expert so I value your opinion about how to set up my device.

abovenbeyond said:
So Stylez, do you use Schaps Advance Config? If you do, under locations do you change any of the default locations to point to the mem card (besides of course My docs, pics, vids, downloads)
You seem to be quite the expert so I value your opinion about how to set up my device.
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I keep everything as is
My Pictures get stored to SD nothing else is really space concious... Downloadz always to SD
More important is the cleaning of device temp files etc, Clear Temp using on a regular bases... Along with sktool Free RAM (silent) running every 6 hours, also use MTreeSize to view file system for anything that's taking up space and unwanted.
No expert just too much time on my hands

Ramdisk for WinMo? useful?

Hi all, been lurking for a while now. Fantastic community here, lots of useful advice, files etc
I've been playing with ramdisks on my desktop lately and was wandering if there is such a thing that works well on xperia, and if its a worthwhile thing to do. I've seen a few cabs about the net, but most seem to be rather old and under-developed.
Is there a ramdisk utility that has been test with xperia? this thing has plenty of ram and i would expect dedicating 32mb or so to caches / temp files would be useful, reduce checkerboard effect on browser, help with buffering vid's etc.
thanks all.

What good is it if the software isn't looking/optimized for it?
X1 has 256MB, far more than most WinMo phones. How is putting a virtual drive in RAM going to make things faster? You'd just be lowering system RAM. The whole idea seems pointless...even on desktops nowadays.

This is actually a good way to improve Opera's performance if you tell it to use the RAM disk as cache.

JKingDev said:
This is actually a good way to improve Opera's performance if you tell it to use the RAM disk as cache.
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...as opposed to?

WhyBe said:
...as opposed to?
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He didn't insinuate a comparison, why do you ask for one? Jking just said it's a good way to deal with Opera loading, nothing else. Smartass.

Angelusz said:
He didn't insinuate a comparison, why do you ask for one? Jking just said it's a good way to deal with Opera loading, nothing else. Smartass.
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lol thanks. Opera uses storage memory (which is flash memory) as cache when loading webpages. Therefore uing a RAMdisk is faster than regular storage.

Angelusz said:
He didn't insinuate a comparison, why do you ask for one? Jking just said it's a good way to deal with Opera loading, nothing else. Smartass.
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Yes he did, because he is talking about using RAM disk technique which isn't currently used by Opera. The comparison was implied...dumbass!
JKingDev said:
lol thanks. Opera uses storage memory (which is flash memory) as cache when loading webpages. Therefore uing a RAMdisk is faster than regular storage.
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Do you think internal RAM would be that much faster in this case? I think the data connection is the bottleneck when it comes to web browsing, not RAM speed. Besides, you're going to sacrifice system RAM in order to have the RAM disk. So would you even be getting a net gain in speed?

WhyBe said:
Yes he did, because he is talking about using RAM disk technique which isn't currently used by Opera. The comparison was implied...dumbass!
Do you think internal RAM would be that much faster in this case? I think the data connection is the bottleneck when it comes to web browsing, not RAM speed. Besides, you're going to sacrifice system RAM in order to have the RAM disk. So would you even be getting a net gain in speed?
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I've been using ramdisk on my rom since half year ago (v2.x). And both IE and Opera could take advantage of it after some tweak. RAM is definitely a lot faster if you did some benchmark on both. And if you really understand how caching works, it won't help in your first visit where data connection is the bottleneck. But it does help if you reload/revisit the same page since caching from ram is faster from flash memory.
And there are side benefit like security (all content/cookie are gone after reset), and prolong yr flash memory life (flash memory is not as good for I/O wearing but may not be a big deal since most of us change phone so often).
After all, X1 has 256mb of ram which is a lot for mobile device and I selfdom running out of it. Then why not making good use of them? Maybe seeing big chunk of free memory (and slow everything down) make you feel happy? Unlike desktop, the main component contribut to speed is CPU where free memory only contribute for how many program/process you can open concurrently. Seeing lot of free memory without utilize them is simply stupid.
BTW, I use 3Gig ramdisk on my 8Gig Vista64 and it HELPS a GREAT DEAL in rom cooking since rom cooking involved lots of read/write over thousands (TF3D alone is ~ 2000) of small files. A cooking process that takes 3 mins with HD reduces to 1 mins with ramdisk in my experience. The same reason I listed above holds true for desktop + using ramdisk for /Temp helps a lot for IE and winrar since they use /TEMP to process the files.

^^^ OK, I understand what you are saying. But if RAM disk were really an advantage in mobiles, why wouldn't mobile browser developers utilize their own RAMDisk routines in their browsers (since speed seems to be the main comparison between browsers)?

for me totally none use!

WhyBe said:
^^^ OK, I understand what you are saying. But if RAM disk were really an advantage in mobiles, why wouldn't mobile browser developers utilize their own RAMDisk routines in their browsers (since speed seems to be the main comparison between browsers)?
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It could be they are developing a "generic" browsers that serve PDAs with different size of RAM. And many of the older devices still have 64mb physical memory and 20-30mb left after boot (e.g. My P525 and x51v) . Those machines simple don't have any ram left for that.
And they can simply use malloc (C programming) to allocate a chunk of memory and don't have to use external driver like ramdisk to accomplish this. But if the browser itself don't support this feature and we know we have enough ram to spend, we can take advantage of it if needed.
Developers always have priorities in features and there are other means to speed things up to more users (e.g. server side compression like Opera 9.7)

can someone tell me if my thinking is correct

ok so i didnt really know what swap was or compcache with backing was so i spent the day lookin it up and i just want to know if what im getting out of my info is correct.
swap, basically instead of your phone just seeing ram it also sees your swap partition as part of the ram. so it stores app data and etc. to the swap partition thus making your phone run faster and not taking up all your internal ram and make it run slower. and it is managed by linux. by changing your swappiness setting either higher or lower will change how often swap is used.
compcache, basically creates a sort of swap partition inside the ram itself. it compresses what it swaps into this partition to create more space in the ram. im guessing people like this with backing swap because the compressed info can be brought up quicker because its compressed in the phones ram rather than like swap were its on the sd.
backing swap, when compcache is full it uses the swap partition on my sd. but rather than being like linux swap were its controlled by linux, backing swap is managed by compcahe wich works together better than compcache and linux swap.
im a complete noob here lol so if i got something wrong you gotta explain it to me in laymans terms thanx for the help

Yes, that's right. Did you copy and paste those definitions lol?

lol no i did a lot of google searching its all other peoples info but i put it into words that i can understand.lol

Amack that almost deserve a sticky

this post help me understand the way the partition works alittle better now, thanks!

[Q] Virtual memory?

Sry if this has been asked before as I'm a newb but is there a way to use virtual memory or create a swap partition like in ubuntu to be used when memory runs low. My wife has this phone (htc hero-cdma) and is always complaining how it's so slow and how much she hates it. i believe it is due to ram running low as I have already overclocked to 768 mhz and running froyo which did make it faster but it still slows down. And untill I have the money to get her own htc evo I at least want to make it bareable. any help would be appreciated.

You have to be running a rom that supports it - read each ones details and it will tell you. I think most of the 2.1's do.
But to set it up - when you are in recovery partition your SDCard. It asks how much for Swap/Ext remainder is Fat.
Too much Swap tends to slow things down though.

Kcarpenter said:
You have to be running a rom that supports it - read each ones details and it will tell you. I think most of the 2.1's do.
But to set it up - when you are in recovery partition your SDCard. It asks how much for Swap/Ext remainder is Fat.
Too much Swap tends to slow things down though.
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Thanks for the reply. She is running cyanogen 6.0.0 rc1. Ill look into the notes to see if there is anything about adding a swap file under cyanogen. Btw if I add a partition for swap what should it be? Ext2 or ext3, how much is recommended and once done will the phone reconize automaticly? Thanks for help.