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From what I've seen there is not a lot more that the Ifoon can offer over what the BA has.
I like the look of the ifoon, but other than edge what else does it offer?
A bigger hole in the bank account.
Agreed.
Apple, welcome to 2004.
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
no ways yoz
fraser said:
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
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haha bros that's an apple patent.. we all know this!! software support always been an apple downfall. Not only that but no physical buttons?!? What happens when the 'super apple' touchscreen goes out? ouch! You got that bar of soap it so much resembles!
I dig my BA, but it's too big and bulky, get a hermes for that price! Apple and Jobs built a POS. They're just jealous that M$ is getting so much recognition with new smartphones. Last year at this time it seemed half the world didn't even know what a smartphone was.. until the release of these smartphones like the Q/blackjack, every lil 16yr old cries to their parents for one. What a crock! My opinion.
Apple needs to stick to software, the Intel macs are tearing up the G5's all around.
I have watched the introduction of the iPhone over the net.
This is the best device of this class!! It is lightning fast, it is operated with fingers only (no stylus!!!!!) it is a unique Softwae/hardware simbiot!!! After all how many IPods have crashed or needed soft reset, hard reset and so on? If Apple release this wonderfull device I'll get myself one for sure!
This is personal opinion!
OrionBG, I'm not convinced. I know at least three iPod users that have had serious problems. Dodgy batteries, music db corruption (complete loss) and other issues with iTunes have left me quite unimpressed. The mere fact that they force you to use iTunes bites the big one. My friend had to reset his whole library after his PC hard drive crashed. Well, he would have if it hadn't been for the "illegal" utilities I helped him use to recover most of it.
Apples "Just Works" thing is largely a marketing myth. Pop over to any unofficial apple forum to see the real issues that their hardware has. You can't discuss these things on their official forums; if you raise a bug that they can't be bothered fixing, they'll just delete the thread everytime you raise it. Check the discussion in that link; they have a long history of this.
They also sue websites and threaten them if they say anything bad about apple. If this forum was larger they would be complaining about my current post. Paul over at Modaco had to remove a Today screen for Windows Mobile that looked a little like the apple one announced. If you announce any Apple "secrets", they will threaten to sue you even though you have never signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. They have bigger lawyers than you and more money to spend so people rarely fight back.
Apple suck. This is not the right way to run a company IMHO. They are a bad company guilty of anti-competitive practices and this has been consistent over the past five years. Their recent hardware has been very anti-consumer and of poor quality. The only reason they get away with it is because their main competitor has a worse track record in these regards and that they have a fantastic marketing department.
Have u heard about piratebay activity called http://buysealand.com/ they've just decided to buy small "island" - no lawyers problem anymore.
... and one of the greatest tactic is "how something is amazing" post by "ordinary people" together with deleting "the wrong one".
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
rambo6 said:
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
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Nobody will build a perfect phone : )
!! M$ !!
Sure everyone hates M$ but what are the most widely used OS variants in the world.. Without a doubt...Windows products! Eat that Apple/Linux/whatever users
Plus like I stated, the need for physical buttons are a must, no? That must be one super touchscreen on the apple it will be the one way to navigate? Not even a scroll wheel like relatively cheap smartphones? OUCH! hope you have absolutely clean fingers no matter what that screen will be soo smudged up with nastiness!
Apple jealous of M$ tearing up the mobile market, can't stand it! hahaha I love it!! They're hardware is behind, only thing they've got going for them is the camera.
Apple ish*t specs
Technical Specifications
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
It's easier to shrug off the iPhone, especially if you don't have the money to buy it
cutting through the grituitous bashing, as well as the hype, I have seen good and bad things.
GOOD:
No doubt it has a hardware platform powerful enough to perform at least as good as our BAs, and probably better. Yeah, it could have 3G, but it would add too much to the cost of the machine.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability. Otherwise just pick up your Nokia 1110 with its black-and-white matrix and shut up.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate. And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
THE MIXED:
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
It will probably be bad for the hobbyst crowd, which would like to code for fun for their devices, and probably won't be allowed to. Unless Apple releases some open IDE a la Carbide, but since they are already closing up the door on software availability, this possibility is remote.
I think it's more bad than good, but at least we can hope this will be a death sentence for software developemnt for this platform, and that this will actually result in more security. Not that we have many actual threats out there, but smartphones have the potential to be hacked into, become zombies for spam botnets etc. etc. When the spammers/crackers start to tap on this, we might start to see Windows Mobile get into a nightmare...
THE BAD:
It lacks 3G, it does not have direct iTunes access (you have to cradle it to sync and add stuff);
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind? OK, I don't usually swap batteries around, but I tend to buy extended batteries (my BA has one). I only this machine has GOOD battery life, this might not bite as much.
It would be good to have a GPS throwed in too... hey, let me dream!
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time. I believe there have been t-mobile onlys before, after some time they will allow everyone to buy it. Remember, it's all about PROFIT. Apple will not close their market that much. If they can sell more, they will. They are probably working first with the operator which was easier to work with, they gave more of how apple wanted to control the device and the network. And they will probably use this to scrub on other operator and say 'Ok, if you don't do it the way I like it, I won't do you the favor of selling my devices to you' (Yeah, Apple is a bit like a diva). They will try to use the Cingular-only argument to try to drive the operator into submission. It's a reversal of roles, where usually the operators dictate what they want and don't want on their devices. And maybe they can pull it off.
IT's EXPENSIVE. Apple/Cingular is really 'stretching the thong' on this one. Either Cingular is not subsidizing AT ALL (have you thought of this possibility?), or the machine is really expensive.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag. The screen is the same size of a LifeDrive, which is not anywhere near the cost of this machine. 4-8 GB flash? look at the iPod nano's price tags. ARM CPU + radios, there are plenty out there. motion/orientation sensor? Hmm, look at the Wii controls, I think I have read something about them, those things are not expensive nowadays. The only exotic stuff is the multi-touch sensor, and those things exist for quite some time, they are just not popular. and lacking stuff like 3G radio, SD slot and... a removable battery cover (sigh) helps driving down the cost.
The profit margin is fat here! yeah, there is all this 'pay for R&D blah blah', but they are going to make a few good bucks.
BOTTOM LINE:
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
pda...of course
in primis...here in hungary every apple stuff is sold for a double or triple price as in the US, this means, that the ifoon would cost minimum 1000-1200$...that is not affordable...or, of course, it is, but the ifoon doesn't worth that much...
pro secundo...the operator lock...well...it's discussed on many forums, that it wont be easy to crack it, so if it ever would be sold here, you couldn't change operator easily, and if not at all, it sucks...
pro tertia...the multitouch...say anything, that it's better than a single stylus...but i can't imagine, that i'll use my thumbs to scroll an ebook, or play minesweeper ;]...but anyway, if the software range is limited, than it matters no...sending an sms could be easyer, maybe, because, you could type...but you should use full screen keyboard...which is annoying, and anyhow, you could take it in your hand like a psp, so you could use only thumbs, that are big...and as mentioned...you will mess the whole screen with fingerprints all the time...that suck again
the thingy has no IRDA, this way you cannot use it as a remote control for tv, or what...
and, and as mentioned above...no gps, no sd, no changeable battery...anyhow 3G is said to be installed in it, till it will be merchandised...
Brazilian Joe said:
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
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I disagree. Sure, their PCs will get you on the net but as soon as you try to do something more complex they fall down. Their support is rubbish and they regularly delete bugs and forum posts about issues they can't be bothered fixing. Their computer hardware and QC have been slated regularly. About the best thing they have going for them is their legion of fanboi's (and astroturfers) convincing people that their computers "just work" when it's not the case.
They also threaten sites like xda-developers as a general rule. They probably have more lawyers than developers, basically a small Microsoft during it's evil phase.
About the only thing they've done right lately is the iPod, and even it has all the "all apple, all the time" idea where you can only buy music from iTunes and get it on to the device. If you try to write software so that people are free to use something else other than iTunes, they'll sue you for that.
Oh, and now they are charging you for patches and feature updates and calling it "an accounting quirk".
Apple suck, most people are just too blinkered by their dislike for Microsoft to see it.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
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It's nice, but I'm not all that impressed. Sure, most of us will have seen the multitouch proof-of-concept videos last year on a full PC, but this is on a phone. There isn't all that much room for more than one active finger. And what about one-handed operation? You'd need to have it on a table for multi-touch. And what, on a mobile, can it actually be used for that's superior to any other UI component?
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability.
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It's most redeeming feature IMHO.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate.
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Nope, built of OSX and it uses iTunes. That's quite a legacy there alone.
And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
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I could not disagree more. All they've done is take a standard device and slap a pretty UI on it. We could get that via a software update on old hardware right now. In fact, we had it and they forced hanmin to remove his post via bogus legal threats. One good thing about all of this is that MS will have to rethink their UI and play catchup a little.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
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My digital camera has that, it's very useful and intuative. You see it happen once and from then on it's instinctive just to rotate it. However, on a phone when it has to send redraw events to the running applications and deal with resolution changes, I'm not convinced this is something you want switching everything you move your arm.
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
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That's fine, but IMHO if you visit the xda-developers website often, this is not the phone for you. If you visit "hello" magazine and read about Paris Hilton, maybe that's the software delivery model designed just for you.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
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Not sure, signing doesn't prevent piracy, it just prevents tampering and provides a trust mechanism. Unless they generate you an unique key-pair for every purchase which I seriously doubt.
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
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Stream via WiFi, via iTunes and your credit-card? Standard Apple practice, charge 'em where possible.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind?
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Making money. Officially when your iPod battery dies (often 1 year old), you have to buy a new iPod.
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time.
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Don't hold your breath, it's a two-year (!!) contract.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag.
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No, but the Apple logo does apparently. All of their stuff is at least 30% over market value.
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
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Agreed. Might even get one myself, but I reckon that it'll give the other mobile platforms a kick up the butt and they'll be well ahead by then.
The subject is iphone versus BA
Nobody actually talk about BA at this thread.
Obviously, iphone wins.
Apple's real advance is draw all ppl's attention, media focus, even they build a ****.
Jobs yells, Look at our new ****!!
yoz my last post as a BA user
Heck I have cingular and i'd take a $200 BA over an $499 iphone anyday!! My last post as a BA user, I loved it, great, fast, versitile device. 3.5" display can't beat that.. widescreen at 240x320.. amazing hardware when it released. Lets seea crossbow leap to the BA.
! Long live HTC !
A friend of mine is very Iphone-minded; so from the moment he get's it, I'll have a look at this "device".
I can tell you this much: you will only be able to do with it what apple wants you to do with it - modifying, installing apps? forget it!
I can't imagine a iphone-developers.com
Hmm, there is an iSupply review estimating the BOM (hardware cost alone) to be around 250/280 for the 4/8 GB iPhones.
Even if I lived in the US, I wouldn't rush into the iPhone. i'd wait and see.
I like to see all technological advancements, and I am not a fanboy of ANY brand.
For example, while I have always preached AMD over intel since the K6, now I am recommending Core 2 Duo to anyone who asks. The performance speaks for itself. Since I acknowledged what the Centrino was doing, I kept a close eye on the Intel developments... When They announced that the Core 2 Duo would have an average 20% better performance over the Core Duo, I seriously doubted about it. I have read the technical articles, but I still was skeptic, believeing that they were trumpeting a 'best case' as if it were THE performance. But I was wrong. Core 2 Duio is really all that, and it will be interesting to see AMD catching up.
personally, I actully think AMD will pull it off, with the 'specialized cores' approach. They will embed a GPU (I believe it will be generalized and simply called a 'stream processor') in a multi-core package this year, and soon I believe we will see a Crypto core, and who knows what else. maybe AMD even ecides it's a good idea to have a FPGA as an extra core, and that would open an incredible number of possibilities.
Back to the iPhone subject:
I see the iPhone design as the antithesis of Nokia, nothing is more antagonic to the 'buttons only' approach of S60 than a touchscreen-only.
UIQ and Windows Mobile stay in-between, playing both games, but apparently losing on both. I would like to have a hands-on test drive on the iPhone, but I believe they got it right on the interface.
I really believe the software model they are trying to impose is on of iPhone's greatest risks, the other one is being locked on Cingular for too long, and those could cause its demise.
I really hope it suceeds though, because there is at least one thing it brought to the market, and I really, really hope Microsoft adds it to Photon (WM7): MultitouchScreen.
Competition is good.
well. I have read a great deal on the new i phone. My own opinion is simply that they will NOT corner any part of the mobile phone market let alone come anywhere close to the BA or HTC models of any description.
Apple are already running into stupid problems already if the BBC news here in UK is correct. Apparently the "i phone" name is already a no go thanks to a previous copyright name came from a different company. And as far as being original and up2date....apple are always very close to the mark when it comes to this. Remember last year towards Nov Dec time when LG showed up with their version of what they say as the interactive mobile phone. And how close
the apple phone is in comparison to the LG. I say no more.
OS X maybe pretty to look at, but I much prefer the adaptability and personalizing of the modern Windows Phone edition etc. Have what you want, when you want, HOW you want. AND then....carry ALL your media content including movies mtv clips cartoon....oh yes...AND music (mp3 ogg files etc)it all about (if you prefer) on you OWN memory card.
I digress...
Well, Apple is not that much of a stupid company.
They negotiated and researched before trumpeting the iPhone name.
More recently, after the 'what did they had in mind' reaction, it came up that complaints were filed both in the US and in the EU, in attempt to revoke Cisco's copyright over the iPhone brand for lack of use.
Seems they picked one of their existing products and just badged it as an iPhone, to try to keep hold of the name at the expiry date.
the productitself was released much later and is not what they showed previously, so Apple is trying to free up the name.
Well, it's a gamble, but they would't even try if there was no chance to win on trial.
It will depend on convincing the judge that Cisco was sitting on the name and not using it for too long, so long that they lost their rights over it.
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
So, if the iphone had microsoft exchange sync and wasn't tied exclusively to one carrier, would you choose it over the Kaiser?
no period no
Its not tied to one carrier anymore when you unlock it. I use both, and it depends on what I'm doing to decide when I switch my SIM from one to another. There are things the Tilt can't touch on the iPhone, and vice versa.
nope, too many other reasons why. instead of saying "if the iphone had this and that" why not just say "if the kaiser had multitouch and sensors"? i mean those are the only features it doesnt have, not worth trying to add more features too the iphone.
Oh hell no.
The iphone is garbage. It can't send/ receive mms messages (without using a 3rd party email account and forwarding)... and it does not have 3g capabilities.
lets not forget that you cant get to the battery with out voiding the waranty if nothing else we have definitly got them there
I love my tilt
I'm think of getting an iphone to mess around with it. I current on Att with data connect plan for data. Do i have to upgrade the data to some kind of special plans for iphone?
i have a tilt and i love it, the only thing that i would say that i like about the iphone is the touch capabilities... thats about it.
you know, besides the video part, the screen res. and the multi-touch screen, Everything else on the Kaiser beats the iPhone.
i stand correct:
if i want a phone for looks and to wow people cuz i have an iphone...yes i would get it...
but if i want a phone for its functionality...no...never will i get the iphone...
in reality...i would probably never get the iphone...especially since i already got my tytn II
Hokay, to (hopefully) end this endless iPhone VS Kaiser debate, let me post this (warning, lots of letters):
1. EDGE-only, and limited Wi-Fi: Cingular's rapidly rolling out HSDPA across the country, with other carriers (T-Mobile with UMTS, Sprint and Verizon with EV-DO Revision A, and Sprint with WiMAX, for example) making similar high-speed data services infrastructure investments. Yet the Apple iPhone only handles comparatively archaic and slow EDGE, which will hobble Apple's hype of it as a 'breakthrough Internet communications device'. Hold this particular thought until you read my later comments on the product's profit margin, keeping in mind estimates that bumping the iPhone from EDGE to HSDPA would have only cost Apple around $20 more. Yes, the unit also offers Wi-Fi (b/g), but you won't be able to access it via your Cingular plan; get ready to also pay Boingo or another provider if you want a pervasive 802.11 experience. And as much as Zune got clobbered for its incomplete to-date Wi-Fi implementation, the Apple iPhone's no better. No wireless iTunes sync with a computer? No direct downloads from the iTunes Store? C'mon
2. No removeable battery: Long-time readers know this is a frequent sore point of mine. Manufacturers claim that by going with a completely enclosed battery they can make their systems thinner, smaller, lighter and otherwise more aesthetically pleasing than they'd otherwise be. To date, this has pretty much been BS; at end-of-day, economy-of-scale factors still motivate companies to go with off-the-shelf batteries instead of custom units. And by burying a limited-life battery within its widget, Apple's built in a guaranteed replacement requirement....one that under normal usage will conveniently occur prior to the end of the required two-year service contract with Cingular.
3. High price, and high profit margin: $500-600 for the phone. Plus a roughly $100-month voice-plus-data service plan, with two-year minimum duration. 'Nuff said on price. Regarding margin, it's interesting to see Apple engaging in Microsoft-like pre-announcement hype of late. Last summer, the company unveiled the iTV, an under-development product re-unveiled two weeks ago as Apple TV and still not shipping for another month-plus. And the Apple iPhone won't be shipping until at least the end of June....plenty of time for dissenting voices such as mine to creep into the public consciousness, along with iSuppli's recent analysis that the Apple iPhone will cultivate a roughly 50% bill-of-materials profit margin for the company. Yes, other expenses (marketing, manufacturing, sales, etc) aren't included in the analysis, but they're insignificant when amortized over the number of iPhones that Apple aspires to sell. And most consumers won't comprehend that these other costs are not included; they'll just see 50% margin and think greed.
4. Carrier- and application-lock: Apple and Cingular must have missed the late November 2006 memo wherein the Library of Congress approved a copyright exemption (more from Ars Technica and MAKE) that allows DMCA circumvention for "cell phone firmware that ties a phone to a specific wireless network". I have mobile service through T-Mobile, so I'm not an iPhone candidate unless I'm a "bad guy" (in Cingular terminology) who figures out how to unlock the device by myself. And Jobs' explanation for the Apple-gated (thereby potentially excluding Office file viewers, for example, and VoIP) iPhone application allowance, that "Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up," is equally laughable, not to mention technically indefensible. In reality, it's nothing more than an unfriendly-to-consumer but lucrative-to-company extension of the FairPlay DRM lock-to-Apple strategy.
5. Large size: I think Pocket PC Phones are too bulky, both to stow in my pocket and to hold up to my face. I'm also not a fan of wired or wireless headsets, and I therefore prefer the Smartphone approach. But Maury, and plenty of other folks, find the larger iPhone-like form factor and headset approach palatable. So this is admittedly a personal-taste nit.
6. No tactile keypad: Time and time again, touchscreen-only user interfaces with 'floating keypads' have been panned by potential customers and have therefore been unsuccessful in the market aside from in narrow market niches. Will this time be different? I'm skeptical.
7. Low-res camera: An only-2 Mpixel camera? On a $500-$600 phone? C'mon
8.No expansion slot: The operating system (which may or may not be OS X as Jobs touted during his 'reality distortion field' keynote), gobbles up 500 MBytes' worth of the 4 or 8 GBytes of flash memory built into the phone. Installed applications consume even more, and let's not forget those all-important music tracks and video clips. Run out of memory? Too bad, buy a bigger-capacity phone. There's no memory card expansion capability for you.
9. Insufficient between-charge operating time: Apple's documentation claims up to 5 hours when talking on the phone, playing back videos or browsing the Internet. I believe 5 hours of talk time, which is in and of itself low compared to competitors products. And I 'may' believe 5 hours of video playback time, given that the unit is flash memory-based and given the track record of the company's firmware upgrade-based improvements here on the first- and second-generation video-capable iPods. But I don't buy it for a second with Internet-based functions, EDGE- and particularly Wi-Fi-based. Anyone else who regularly manages email, fires up a web browser, or does another Net-centric function on a device with a small battery will, I think, agree with my stance here. And, revisiting my earlier embedded-battery point, realize that Apple's operating life prognostications assume a brand new battery.
10. Unoriginality: Admittedly, this may be my most controversial argument. Go back and look at any of my past Pocket PC and Smartphone writeups. Look at any of the devices now available from carriers. Now realize that many of them are now selling for free-to-sub-$100, subsidized under the exact same contract terms as Apple's $500-600 iPhone. Windows Mobile-based devices, as well as products based on Palm, Symbian and alternative operating systems, have for years been doing what Apple's promising its iPhone will do in....around six months from now. Phone? Check. Audio playback? Check. Video playback? Check. Internet access? Check. Wi-Fi? Check. 3G data? Check-plus. Bluetooth? Check. Camera? Check. GPS? Check-plus. I could go on (but I won't). Some folks are even claiming that Apple blatantly stole from an LG phone design. Granted, Apple may have advanced the state of the art to some degree, in some areas, in an evolutionary manner, by virtue of its large touchscreen and other factors. But is the Apple iPhone revolutionary? That's quite a stretch.
Taken from http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/1100006510.html
Take it or leave it, I did not write it, nor do I agree with everything there. It's just a good write-up that deserves to be read be people who choose between the two.
There's been LOTS of bashing Kaiser... and way too much iPhone lovin' - but that's just my observation.
guys, when the sdk iphone 16gb comes out(and it is coming out within the next 2 months), its going to DESTROY the kaiser tytn 2 and all other HTC products currently offered. seriously think about it now.....
well i could personally careless about the new iphone...i text quite a bit and i've previously owned phones with no keyboard...and its a pain in the bottom to me at least...and the tytnII suites my needs...whether it should perform better..lets not go there here as we've already said many times in other threads...whether i will get the iphone or not? probably not...it looks good and all the interface..but doesnt suit my needs...but am i 100% satisifed with the tytnII...no...but who here can say they have been 100% satisfied with there phone and thinks its the number one and nothing else can compare? theres gonna be pros and cons to everyphone...its just picking the phone that has the most pros to each user...but i will look into the new SE xperia when more info is available
The Iphone is too apple-specific for my tastes. I like having the option of using cooked ROMs, napster for music, and loads of third-party applications on my tilt. Extended life batteries and a QWERTY keyboard are great. I also like the fact that I have pretty much unlimited storage, since I can switch out as many microSD cards as I want. I work with a guy that has an Iphone, and with the exception of watching videos, my tilt kicks his Iphone's butt.
Both phones have their strong points, but the Kaiser has a lot more of them than the Iphone does.
DarkDvr said:
Hokay, to (hopefully) end this endless iPhone VS Kaiser debate, let me post this (warning, lots of letters):
1. EDGE-only, and limited Wi-Fi: Cingular's rapidly rolling out HSDPA across the country, with other carriers (T-Mobile with UMTS, Sprint and Verizon with EV-DO Revision A, and Sprint with WiMAX, for example) making similar high-speed data services infrastructure investments. Yet the Apple iPhone only handles comparatively archaic and slow EDGE, which will hobble Apple's hype of it as a 'breakthrough Internet communications device'. Hold this particular thought until you read my later comments on the product's profit margin, keeping in mind estimates that bumping the iPhone from EDGE to HSDPA would have only cost Apple around $20 more. Yes, the unit also offers Wi-Fi (b/g), but you won't be able to access it via your Cingular plan; get ready to also pay Boingo or another provider if you want a pervasive 802.11 experience. And as much as Zune got clobbered for its incomplete to-date Wi-Fi implementation, the Apple iPhone's no better. No wireless iTunes sync with a computer? No direct downloads from the iTunes Store? C'mon
You can have direct downloads from the iTunes store
8.No expansion slot: The operating system (which may or may not be OS X as Jobs touted during his 'reality distortion field' keynote), gobbles up 500 MBytes' worth of the 4 or 8 GBytes of flash memory built into the phone. Installed applications consume even more, and let's not forget those all-important music tracks and video clips. Run out of memory? Too bad, buy a bigger-capacity phone. There's no memory card expansion capability for you.
There is a 16GB version out now. Still 15.5gb free.
Oh - and in the UK on o2, we get unlimited free access to The Cloud's Hotspots, which seem to be pretty widespread. IE in McDonalds and so forth.
Taken from http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/1100006510.html
Take it or leave it, I did not write it, nor do I agree with everything there. It's just a good write-up that deserves to be read be people who choose between the two.
There's been LOTS of bashing Kaiser... and way too much iPhone lovin' - but that's just my observation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have one and those are the only two points I wanted to contend, but I can quite plainly see the downfalls of the iPhone and I love mine anyway. My comments in bold
I'm sure I would love the Kaiser if I had one too.
wsmith79 said:
guys, when the sdk iphone 16gb comes out(and it is coming out within the next 2 months), its going to DESTROY the kaiser tytn 2 and all other HTC products currently offered. seriously think about it now.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once the iPhone gets 3G, GPS, and maybe a better keyboard, what reason is there to use an HTC or other smartphones besides lower price?
OSX mobile is only going to get better; it has solid, mature foundations - unlike Linux or PalmOS; and hopefully it opens itself to 3rd party apps properly. Who doesn't want a device that's a company's near #1 priority?
there are only 2 things holding me back from actually getting the iPhone....
1.GPS - iPhone needs needs NEEDS GPS...with the processing power it has, it can support a kick ass GPS software.
2. Copy/Paste - yes, it bugs the **** out of me. I copy paste numbers to SMS on my Kaiser all the time...how can a $600 phone not have Copy/Paste, its so ****ing crazy...i can go on and on about this...
I would have one tomorrow if they included the following features:
1. GPS - fully functional, not some data intensive half-ass'd attempt.
2. 3G/HSDPA - Edge is just not fast enough!
3. MS Exchange server functionality
4. Media Messaging
5. A properly functioning touch screen keyboard
When the iPhone rumors were abounding, I would have definitely taken it over any other phone. When the reality hit, I wasn't all that excited anymore.
The fact is that the iPhone is the future of phones. EVERYONE is playing catch up trying to match its slick interface. Can Windows Mobile even hold a candle to the iPhone when it comes to usability? Hell no. WM is slow, often annoying, doesn't even allow you to close things, and has a lot more problems on the usability side (not to say it sucks, it just had problems - ya know?)
Things are looking better and better every day. Application development seems to have taken off and the iPhone looks more and more attractive all the time. But you have to realize it is in its infancy. Windows Mobile took a little while to get going - people didn't have the choice of 10,000 apps, cooked ROMS, etc. all on day one. So it is with the iPhone.
In my mind, the iPhone is like a baby superhero and Windows Mobile is like the adult average guy. Like, it's obvious who is going to win in the end. Microsoft will need to make some major changes to Windows Mobile if they want to compete in the future marketplace. Otherwise people will start taking them about as seriously as Palm OS.
So - to answer the question: Would i choose an iPhone today? No.
Would I buy an iPhone in six month (or when it has xyz features?): Probably, but we'll have to see what else (Windows Mobile, Android, etc.) has come along by then.
I won't go on record like others in this thread and say "never" because ... well, that's really stupid.
"Why, I'll never buy anything other than a Ma' Bell rotary telephone!"
I will buy iPhone for sure .... only if it runs Windows Mobile
But .... When?
Wow...I used one for a while and I liked it but lack of corporate email made me come back to HTC. I have had the opportunity to play with both side by side and the iPhone is just easier to work with....everything is smooth and works.
I love windows mobile phonews but I was always upgrading the firmware and trying different things to essentially get my kaiser to perform like an iPhone.
Whenever this does become available I'll be most likely defecting again.......
Now all I need is AD2P support so I can use my motorola S9 and I'm golden.
I wonder what this will do to sales for the Windows Mobile market and blackberry's.
Wonder if HTc won't do something stupid like make a good phone like the kaiser and then turnaround cripple it by not buying the licneses for the drivers needed it for it to perform as well as it could.
Kaiser forum?
No A2DP, 3G, MMS, and a bunch else...
I'll keep my Tilt.
Honestly 3G is something i very rarely use these days....i like a longer battery life. AD2P is only a software app away.
Oh yeah its not coming out until June.....basically around the time the 3G iPhone comes out.
3g is a must for me. I hate waiting web pages to load and youtube video to play.
Waiting for 3g iphone so I can test it out but I would rather buy the phone with WM7 when it's out.
My other issue with the iPhone is overall stability.
Right across from my cube at work, sits my friend, who is an Apple fan boy to the extreme... He spends almost his whole day using/playing with his iPhone, and I am constantly forced to endure his ranting and raving because Safari or Calender crash.
I would not consider myself a power user to the extremes of what the Kaiser is capable of, but at least it doesn't crash constantly under heavy use.
if one is to use phone network for data at all 3g is a must for me
another problem with iphone is that it dont support microSD or any type of flash even if it does have ok mb flash is good
and battery changing is an issue
last issue is programs wm have much much more both freeware and payware
good thing with iphones stk comming out
problem is that it's objectiveC which mean it will not be easy to port c++ and c# and such apps to iphone
another problem is that it seems that one can only develop those objectiveC apps from macs not pc's :S
other then that iphone is a coolcat
Now if only they can make iPhone compatible with ActiveSync!
For all the complaints people have with ActiveSync, I like it a LOT better than iTunes. I hate having to add everything to my iTunes library before I can copy it to the phone. I just want to mount it as a disk and copy my photos and MP3s to My Documents like I do with my Windows phones!
The iPhone is really nice in many ways, but I find Windows phones a lot more fun to play with, crappy QVGA screens, slow 200MHz IMAP processors, and all.
I really wanted the IPhone, but in the end I got the Touch Cruise...
My decisions was based on
1. No Copy/Paste
2. No Bluetooth Voice Dialing
3. No A2DP
4. No MMS
5. No removeable battery
5. No Flash support
6. No option to save anything from the browser
7. No video recording
8. No 3G
9. No MS Office editing
To me the Iphone in current state is more of a webbrowser with a Ipod, and then some phone and pda features thrown in. I have no doubt that once Apple fixes these glaring omisions, many of us will convert.
maybe because windows mobile always seem to have been the redheaded stepchild of ms
their evolution seem to be at the same pace af the nature counterparts
if we dident have developers for the platform it would be a stale boring even seen with business eyes
kinda like dos lived on as a rather text bases shell while atari st and comodore amiga had gui desktops even with icons which could be as large as you would want them to which even vista today dont support
Rudegar said:
maybe because windows mobile always seem to have been the redheaded stepchild of ms
their evolution seem to be at the same pace af the nature counterparts
if we dident have developers for the platform it would be a stale boring even seen with business eyes
kinda like dos lived on as a rather text bases shell while atari st and comodore amiga had gui desktops even with icons which could be as large as you would want them to which even vista today dont support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree 100%, its really sad that Windows Mobile pretty much looks and acts the same as it did almost 10 years ago when WinCe 1.0 was around. MS seems to lack the ability to innovate, they can only duplicate/improve upon. Even to the point of creating the Zune...at that point I could not for the life of me understand why MS decided to go that route instead of giving WM a serious multimedia overhall (or even doing both the Zume and a WM media overhall).
Now Apple beat them to the punch, and once again MS will be last in this foot race. Unfortunately for MS, Apple dealt a really really powerful blow with the IPhone. I have no doubt that with Apple's new Exchange Server features and the fact that they will eventually fix my above list of 9 IPhone omissions, MS will get buried.
Furthermore, as you said, what WM has going for it primarily is its developer base. Given the fact that the IPhone is selling so well, I have no doubt in my mind that the IPhone will eventually grow a larger developer base. That will be the nail in the coffin. WM7 will be too late to fix that.
"Now if only they can make iPhone compatible with ActiveSync!"
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7177.html
"Microsoft has licensed ActiveSync to Apple so that now Windows Mobile is not necessary to get good connection to Microsoft Exchange including push email, in other words: Apple iPhone connects to Microsoft Exchange not worse than Windows Mobile"
lol ok so who is wearing the wire?!
Rudegar said:
"Now if only they can make iPhone compatible with ActiveSync!"
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/7177.html
"Microsoft has licensed ActiveSync to Apple so that now Windows Mobile is not necessary to get good connection to Microsoft Exchange including push email, in other words: Apple iPhone connects to Microsoft Exchange not worse than Windows Mobile"
lol ok so who is wearing the wire?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, yeah, I saw that headline yesterday... but I'm still skeptical.
Will it ONLY sync to Exchange? Or will it show up in Windows Mobile devices just like a PPC would, and can sync even to a local Outlook? I also really doubt it will allow one to drag & drop media into the iPhone via Windows Explorer like a Windows phone can. However, if it's possible for a programmer to connect to the ActiveSync driver (or kext or whatever they're called on the iPhone), then anything is possible.
A Windows mobile and an iPhone each have its' weaknesses and strengths. Owning both, they compliment each other (I use 2 different prepaid carriers so the monthly bills aren't that heavy). I used to think that I would never have any use for windows mobile, until I tried it. Now, I don't think I can ever be satisfied with a symbian phone. It was the same with the iPhone. You just have to own it to know its' strengths. Most of the weaknesses is addressed through unofficial native applications. Many may have different experiences but mine is pretty stable. My only gripe is with the non-replaceable battery. Looking at their other product line I don't think they will ever address that issue.
Here is my evaluation/2 cents
I have used both the Hermes and Iphone for side by side for quite sometime.
I finally came to the conclusion that the Iphone is the way to go, no questions about, although from time to time I do light up my Hermes and just stare at it for a while.
Ok...here is the deal. WM6 phones have more capabilities in terms of bells and whisTles but for all intensive purposes, the Iphone has just what I want and presented in a very convenient package.
1 - The Iphone screen size, resolution and quality and user interaction is unmatched by any wm6 device. Its just that simple.
2 - Yes wm6 devices may have 3G. Most of the time I use WIFI either at work or home. Even when outside my edge while slower than 3G is still very acceptable as I will not be in any hurry to look at webpages.
3G will cost you a fortune if you use it a lot.
Oh did I mention that the battery on my Hermes sucks big time with 3G on. Barely last a full day. Therefore for all day to day purposes WIFI and edge for me are fine.
3 - A2DP will be released through applications on the Iphone very soon.
4 - Explorer pocket edition is no match to Iphone's Safari. Its again just that simple
5 - Copying and pasting can be done on a jailbreaked Iphone. Its quite a simple matter these days.
6 - Why would I need micro sd when I got 8 gigs of storage? and now the new 16 gigs version.
7 - Removable battery? Why? My Iphones battery life just rocks! My hermes battery sucked! again no competition.
8 - Activesync will be supported on Iphone when the new firmware v2.0 hits this coming June. Oh did I mention that microsoft exchange will be supported too? But for now I am more than happy with my Iphone's email capabilities.
9 - No corporate email? Howcome? we have an exchange server at work and I get my email on my Iphone just like I did on my Hermes. and it is presented much better without the use of such other costly software such as Pocket Breeze.
10 - Camera? My Iphones 2 megpixel camera kicks ass compared to the my Hermes one. Even though it does not support zoom in natively. The main downside to the Iphones camera is it does not support video recording.
as you can see from the above Apple has created a beautiful and very practical peace of gadgetry and I just love it.
But again this is just my personal opinion.
etreby71, after using the iPhone exclusively for just a few days, I completely agree. The iPhone does not have as many features, but what it does do, it does much better than WM6. I also gave my wife an iPhone to replace her T-Mobile Dash. She LOVED the Dash, but it didn't take long for her to warm up to the iPhone and she likes it much better than the Dash now.
My only complaints with the iPhone:
1. iTunes is required to copy media/files to the phone. I don't like having to run a program to copy files to the phone. I wish it would show up under My Computer like WM phones do, with direct access to the disks and ability to copy photos/music/videos directly to "My Documents".
2. I don't know what the SDK will bring, but right now with a jailbroken phone, you need to use Installer to install programs from online sources. I would much rather have downloadable files that I copy directly to the file system and can execute via File Manager like WM6 and .cab files.
3. I still would like a MicroSD slot, in the WM world, I keep backups of all my .cab files there so if I have to do a hard reset, I can easily reinstall everything. With the iPhone, I have to use that annoying Installer and also remember what all I had installed. I hope the SDK changes this though.
4. GPS would be nice as well, athough I don't really need it as I still have my HTC Titan that can use TomTom.
5. Weight - it's heavy. Although the metal construction and weight makes it feel great to hold and feels of quality, it feels a little uncomfortable in my pants pocket. I'd be happy to trade it for a cheaper-feeling plastic version for less weight.
Overall though, I would have to say the iPhone is definitely a far slicker and more refined device than any WM6 phone.
I have an iphone and a orbit 2.
I prefer the orbit 2 not because of the interface because the iphone's interface is better but.
I can run satnav on my xda, not on iphone.
Install what i want not on iphone without installer and then you are limited to what you can do.
play music via bluetooth headphones, no a2dp on iphone until apple releases there bt headphones at a nice price...
no hsdpa, no 3g required in todays mobile age edge is not even the bleeding edge of technology.
No GPS so no satnav or other gps software dont make me laugh with google maps and triangulation.
its no were near as configurable and you cannot tweak it to your own tastes as you can the wm device.
Live with the iphone for a few months then you will find out its just a ipod that makes phone calls and surfs the web, gimmik and wears off after a while.
To have the stylus and your finger is the best all round input method, fingers alone are the iphones greatest strength and weakness, try typing a sms with two fingers and you will spend more time on the back space then type words, even with the complete.
I can type quicker iphone style keyboard on the xda with the stylus and just as quick with my fingers.
Email is a nightmare, deleting multiple messages, trying to use the left to right delete method usually ends up reading the messgae and not deleting it.
the only good thing with the iphone at the moment is the interface, until apple get there head from there axse and allow people to develop software to the level of the xda then it will never take the top spot.
Apple make good stuff, it looks good on the outside but deep down they build in too many limitations, if it was never jailbroken like they intended it would be a very good paper weight thats makes phones calls.
don't get me wrong i love the interface and i have spent a couple of hours getting my orbit 2 looking like one, and i liked the interface alot.
but at the end of the day its a gimmik that wears off, you will end up just using it as a phone and ipod unless apple release the leash and let the community do its thing.
My iphone is going on ebay and i am buying a 8gb nano for the car interface i put in.
When apple, put in a gps, hsdpa, open up the os to allow proper 3rd party apps, they i am sure i will go and buy one.
but until then the wm device is still top for the hardened pda user.
hope its does not sound like i hate the iphone because i don't but don't try and sell it as the best of the best sir !! because its not got that crown yet...
the overall killer for me for the iphone is its lack of a keyboard.. yea yea yea it has an all-touch keyboard but that's useless in my opinion. plus i watched myspace crash safari twice in a row. plus that itunes virus you have to install to move music. i will never install that. ever.
I have used both the Hermes and Iphone for side by side for quite sometime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ertreby71, I can't figure out why you are comparing the iPhone to your Hermes. At least make it a fair comparison lets say a Touch Cruise vs an iPhone or a TytnII vs an iPhone. You'll quickly find that your advantages start to fall prey to many disadvantages that I had listed on page 1. If given the choice, I'd buy my over Touch Cruise ever time, until maybe the 2nd gen iPhone comes around and Apple makes the phone less restrictive and puts in the rest of the pretty basic features its missing.
I think for many people, the disadvantages of the iPhone are really a non-issue. Many don't use or need any of what the iPhone lacks that were listed on the 1st page. I know very little of that actually affects my usage. The all-touch keyboard is actually rather easy to get used to. I still make mistakes and am not nearly as accurate on it as I am on the Titan's keyboard, but it's really better than I expected.
What really impresses me most about the iPhone is the hardware. The HVGA display is simply stunning. The detail is very impressive and makes the QVGA on my HTC devices look downright crude in comparison.
The smoothness and intuitiveness of the UI is also very impressive. You can tell there is a lot of processing power behind the device. I would really like to see someone write an emulator that runs WM6 for the iPhone just for grins.
I would buy an iPhone if you could buy a truely Sim free version that you could upgrade the Firmware as and when Apple release new Firmware, instead of having an iPhone that is open to upgrades if you pay 260.00 for the phone and be locked to a 35.00 a Month 18 Month contract on O2.
Roland
I bought mine on May last year, and boy was it a mistake. I can't believe I bought ANOTHER Windows Mobile phone, while it is a dying OS...
Too bad I didn't wait for the HTC Desire...
So yeah, Microsoft screwed me with their crappy OS.
Don't regret
I didn't regret the choice I had made. I will love Touch Diamond2 forever.
我作了这个选择并不后悔。我会永远爱我的钻石2代。
yup, i regret it. BUT I can't cry over spilled milk. i make the best of what i have and with enough tweaking and playing around with it, even a Topaz can be...half decent. my ONLY complaint? it's slightly slow. faster than stock roms...but slow in comparison to the nexus one or the desire. oh well, ill enjoy it for another year maybe and then try and get an Android device (Droid 3 then?)
cheers.
Sometimes I regret getting the TD2 especially when entering Text Messages which is unbareable slow and the occassional unresponses to Powering-on.
BTW sent an e-mail last week to HTC about said problems and they came back with "Try a hard reset" - Not at all impressed by HTC.
how do you end up questioning yourself something like that?
do not want to be involved into an endless discussion but I could not help myself not to reply with my thoughts: why is willing anybody to throu on a forum ideas like a dying OS and comparing 2 completely different devices? if you look ofr a shoulder to cry, go out and play with the friends! if you look for some oppinions do not by the judge! to not throuw sentances in vain!
by the moment you plan to change your device the "desire" will be a brik, so your choice made one year ago can prove to be perfect!
for not being misunderstood, I am not in favor or against topaz but this thrad is not bringing anything good to the forum, but only in time, make the search or other maintenance of the forum working slow. posts as love my device also do not help! maybe a betetr idea, si to open a new thread named: why will you choose topaz and why not, and there place pertinent reasons for complaints!
personally, I will never buy a device significantly bigger than topaz! I had diamnond 1 and now, because of useless hardware buttons on that model and because of bigger resolution and available memory I moved to topaz (pure). I will always prefer the dying OS as you named instead of banging my had on the wall finding a reliable navi for Android (of course, depend on the date of posing and the maps you need). the rest, like slow response, I can live with it! I mostly use the device for remote desktop and few calls and messaging. browsing for market information or just info is aslo a must and working pretty well!
hope I have made my point clear!
cheers!
I only regret not buying the touch pro2, and besides the lack of keyboard, I'm pretty happy with it.
No regrets here. It will hold me over for some time until the next "latest and greatest" device is released. It does everything I need it to do.
Granted, if I was stuck on the stock ROM, I probbaly would be sorely disappointed.
I really like the device. It's sad, that Microsoft doesn't fill up the marketplace. They seem to wait for their 7. My girlfriend just bought a Desire and I think I will stay with HTC but change to Android. She already has a lot of apps I miss on my phone.
I will use the diamond another 12 month from now, so Microsoft has a chance to convince me of Windows Phone 7. Else Android is my alternative.
at firts i regreted i had bought a TD2 not waited 3months and bought a HD2, but then i just didn't care.
now i regret i bought 2x4gb microSD cards 1 for my htc 1 for my (nokia)n81, because now i fixed audio problems and i hate carrying 2 phones around all the time(1 for music,1 for gps and web surfing and a few cool apps).
so i'm guesing tomorrow i'll regret i tried to make a sorta RC/3.5mm connector out of my htc headset
the lousy build is definitely a neg point for me
i have sweaty palms and the paintwork is all ruined
still prefer the old original diamond
managed to keep it in pristine condition despite being a yr old
wm platform is really slow though; getting online etc...
got a iphone for web surfing and email purposes instead
the only reason i'm retaining a wmm phone is for the intelligent call function(that is extremely important due to work and call volume) not available on other mobile platforms; correct me if i'm wrong...
I got an HTC Pure as a "complimentary" upgrade from AT&T, after my Incite got bit by the Netfront "trialware" fiasco. I am quite pleased with the Pure. It's screen is fantastic. I had to laugh when my buddy handed my phone to his wife to play with and then said, "she had a bad experience with her first touch screen phone. It had one of 'those' resistive screens." I think the only thing I don't like is the lack of a standard (3.5) headphone jack. It's also hard because a lot of new software is being targeted for the HD2 with it's faster processor. The larger screen would also be nice, but it's not any better resolution, and it would be (slightly) less pocketable. So, all in all I'm pleased with my device, and am very leary of WM7.
I like my PURE, and (fingers crossed) have not had to Hard Reset since I got it. WimMo6.5 has been stable, device has been basically flawless. I replaced two Tilts with this device. I am back on "shipped" ROM, just work around bloatware and load everything on my microSD card. I was concerned about not having the slideout key board, but am doing just fine without it.
I dont like lack of 3,5mm jack, flash, poooooor battery life, sluggish operation, WinMo abnormalities, direct sunlight readability... (nice form factor, resolution, gps performance, good camera...but in my case barely usable device)
Regarding move to E52/E72
Of course you regret it. In a year the technoligy is better and the new devices are better to. But for me it was the best device on that moment.
Overhere in Holland you just don't buy a phone. You sign a contract for a year or two and usually you'll get the phone for free. Now these day you have to pay up to €100 cause the devices are getting more expensive like a iPhone.
So waiting is not a option or you will lose your phone number. Or worse you forget to stop your contract in time, the phone company will extend your contract for another year or two.
Plus
Good service from HTC, they respond in your own language and really trying to help you. Just say you've done a couple of hard resets, they will sort it out for you. They've also kicked Vodafone Holland for me so that I can update my weather at location again.
Stock ROM's are working well
Nice design of the device
XDA-forum that brings me a lot of new futures. Just think about S2U2, CHT, TD2 tools. And I'm not even talking about flashing to costum ROM's
Multi tasking but that's also the minus. Everything is running on the back. Use CleanRAM
A 5mp camera
Min
Sluggish
Low battery life
WM is not that stable
My usb cable is crap, I can see the wires sticking out after 6 months of usage.
I hate my TD2 soooo much... Bought it on a 24 month contract in June last year, and within a month I was sick of the slowness and the plasticky design.
A few months later the camera stopped working completely and so HTC had to replace pretty much everything (as stated on the slip they provided).
Since then the digitizer has cracked on numerous occasions, with just a few minor impacts. I have been forced to buy and fit my own replacements since I have a good year left with this phone!
So, yes, I regret buying this handset more than any other I have ever owned.
As for Windows Mobile... What a crock of ****. A bare and dysfunctional 'app store', a slow and awkward interface and even with Sense over the top it still feels horrible.
I like HTC as a company, but the fact that within a few months they have discontinued and forgotten about your handset is not nice. If we could have got Android fully working on the TD2 it might have been bareable!
There is literally nothing about my TD2 which I like (battery life and soft keyboard are also rubbish); the initial selling points for me (design, screen, processor) have all been massively superceded.
Some of you may disagree with the points I've made, but the original post was asking for opinions and so these are mine!
I can use just about any ol' device for a phone. What I like about the Pure (and the two other WM devices I've owned) is that it's become a hobby of sorts. I like to flash it and rearrange it and play with different apps. At least until the recent court ruling that makes unlocking legal, I've always felt sorry for the poor folks who use an iPhone (my wife and daughter included) because they're just no fun. I feel like a slave to Steve Jobs when I pick one up. They're just so rigid and unlovable.
Oh, one thing I particularly like about WM is the ability to tether. I wouldn't own a phone that couldn't do that.
My Opinion
Imho, I think the topaz/pure was a great purchase for me. I ran out the day AT&T had them and got one because I was somewhat fed up with the tediousness of my raphael/fuze. Apart from a few minor issues, I think it's a great device... the 5 megapixel camera can be a halfways decent substitute to my normal cybershot when it has to, and the screen is indeed large and bright. The unfortunate part about it is that for the most part, you can't use it for serious video playing without downconverting almost anything you put on there. But that's what everyone's got their ipods for, right? XDXD
I don't regret getting it, and I am still satisfied with it, but if I was stuck with stock ROM, and did not re customize it from time to time, I am pretty sure that I would regret. It is wonderful phone and in my opinion the still best looking. That said I am switching soon to Desire.
I went thru a lot of HTC devices over the years and I did not regret a singly buy!
Of course after 1/2 year there are newer better faster devices out, but I was never disappointed by any HTC device I bought.
The only device I regret to buy was an Acer Dual Sim device that was cranky, slow, and did not work in Japan.
I dont regret getting any phone due to the research and testing before I buy them. One thing I can say is txting on resistive screens is painfull at best with my sausage fingers! saying that I had issues with my Hero aswell! the only one i didnt mind typing txt on was the iPhone!!
Almost 3 years being with Google - Coming from a Nokia -
Only if the LG Phone Nexus 5 was builtt as good or better than ****, but it was so flimsy, in spite of being well taken care of all the components kept breaking -
And then there is the android system, I like Android (Oh and thanks god for Cataclysm ROM it made the nexus experience even better) , I like the new Android M too, but inconsistency, bugs that got in the way of your productive such as the memory leak in the android kitkat, and then the wifi drain in Android M. But I did not actually experience the Android M Wifi battery drain (I don't think I did); but I still experienced WiFi using a lot of battery, maybe another bug maybe not.
But the main reason I leave google's nexus line (the only line I would consider for staying with google): Cheaply built phones, that don't last, that have all kinds of hardware problem. Whether its Huwaie, or LG (disgusting). I remember my nexus 5 started to have problems 5 days before the warranty expired, I was busy and called immediately the day after it expired but neither google or lg were willing to help. And then after replacing part after part on my nexus 5, other hardware problems just eventually gave in - a phone barely lasted 2.5 years, without me applying thermal paste and replacing other components.
Now I am with iPhone and I have to say - well built, clean software, not as customizable YES, but, it does not get in the way of my productivity, specially with hardware problems. It's time for Android fans to start criticizing google, and it's cheap phones, I want Google to be able to compete with Apple, but at this moment, Apple is superior to google, seriously.
> phone barely lasted 2.5 years
Apple isn't going to be any different unfortunately. Good news is that their eco-system is well constructed and the scenarios that they do support, work very well.
Best of luck. I just came to Nexus 5 after leaving Windows Phone, where I couldn't stand the "coming soon". Honestly the fact that the Nexus 5 is still running strong was the primary motivation for me to move.
PFFF I have both F***& Apple biggest POS I have ever used
It's your choice!
I'l see u back on this forum after a couple of years when google gets his stuff together!
What parts did you have to constantly replace?
"so flimsy, in spite of being well taken care of"
Really? Seriously? Did you leave it in a drawer? Things just don't break.
It's always sad to see someone go over to the technologically-illiterate side. Apple's hardware & software may be well-made and well-integrated, but you never actually own your iDevice - you just rent it. If you jailbreak it they feel entitled to brick it, I've heard. Naturally I haven't got concrete evidence with my own eyes, because their ethos is so utterly repellent to me that I could never give them a cent.
"neither google or lg were willing to help". Really? When my own N5's radio stopped working after 18 months after the battery ran down to zero (which I appreciate sort of conflicts with my first statement, but bear with me), supposedly outside warranty, Google replaced it without a murmur. I got a "refurbished" phone which was to my eyes absolutely new, and which is still working perfectly with Marshmallow 6.0.1.
I know full well that this is a pointless and stupid argument. You like Apple or you don't. I don't. Marmite/Vegemite. But to proclaim in an Android forum that your Android experience isn't as good as your new Apple experience (after how much time, I wonder...?) is a particularly pointless waste of time.
So I'll stop wasting mine now.
Was it necessary to let us know that you switched to a different phone?
Good for you.
Beat it.
What's the point?
This was kind of "If you need me I'll be jogging for the next hour", "but I didn't ask" "Well, just in case you wanted to know, I'm running" "Um... I didn't want to know"
I like my iPhone fine, but I wouldn't stick my neck out in an Android forum to point that out unless I was spoiling for a trolling.
Sent from my LG-D852 using XDA Forums
I prefer android myself and have found the build quality on the nexus 5 not very good, but you get what you pay for i guess.
I dont like the apple OS but they make great hardware for sure, their stuff just shouts quality , however im sure you could find similar quality in some android phones too, htc etc
Well, my experience with Apple wasn't good... Bought all the models until 5c (couldn't afford 5) and have to tell that Apple throws a way their models leaving the behind with a ios that does not work properly (last ios for each model)... And as well lot of hardware problems still have some where a 4s and a 5c somewhere at home... Good luck and save a lot to buy their "New product"
I agree about one thing pretty much all Android phones have had so-so build quality over the years. Now that has changed as more and more start to build in metal. Now this does not account for actual better quality but the perception of quality is much greater. I know I will never buy a plastic phone again they just feel cheep no matter whay. Only Nokia has basically been able to make plastic feel good in the past with the Lumia line.
At the moment I have a Huawei Mate S, iPhone 6S Plus and a Nokia Lumia 1520. Out of these three, I hold the Mate S as the superior build. It just feels best in the hand. As big screen as the iPhone but a lot smaller in the hand and it looks even better. An impressive piece of engineering indeed.
However this leads me to your trouble. (somethat) Only the Huawei has it's small issues from time to time with wakelocks. This has almost been the case for me with most Androids I've had over the years (and I've had a lot). Android has had these kind of battery draining bugs for so long it's sickening. Something I never experience on either Windows Mobile/Phone nor iOS. Specially iOS feels more polished than anything else on the market, albeit limited in comparison.
That being said, I use my Mate S as a daily driver now, which has the "mobile radio active" bug that's in Lollipop but for me it thankfully does not seem to affect battery life when it happens (daily), it's just a statistical error. Knowing it's there the system feels inferior in use. I have to worry about my usage at times when I'm not on WIFI. With my other phones I feel more at ease.
Each system has their strenghts and weaknesses. I'm no fanboy in either way and having three mobile OS's to chose from at any given day feels great. Something more people should adapt. Stop defending one system so much just because you own it at the moment. Just enjoy what is out there! But do not necessarily speak open about it like this because not many will care. Nature of people is that they get offended and enter defensive mode.
OP, congratulations on your new phone and hope it is everything you are looking for.
Now before this turns into an Apple vs Android thread (which we have had many over the years) going to close this.
Thanks
FNM