Database Develop

[Q]US 3G Limitation?

Hello,
As you can guess, I'm new to Blackstone. I have what I hope to be a simple question. Is the fact that HTC Touch HD doesn't support US 3G a hardware limitation or a software limitation.
Reason for asking:
When a US carrier gets off their lazy a** and picks up this awesome device, will there be a ROM update to enable US 3G?
I really want this device and the only thing keeping me from getting it is the 3G limitation, but I can live with it if one day (less than a year) there is a ROM update to enable US 3G. But if it is a hardware limitation then I'm out of luck.
Thanks,
Roger

hello,
just as new as you...got mine but knew it wouldnt work on us3g becoz us and europe have diferent types of network band for the 3g that why it wont here... hd was made for conveniently europe networks bands

Hardware or Software
I was aware of the limitation right off hand but do you know if its a hardware or software limitation?
AS IN:
Difference in protocols
OR
Different Chip All Together

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=433548

orb3000 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=433548
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do have to ask, due to this happening to me as well, when asking about status or news on 3G in the US for the HTC Touch HD everyone refers back to the link above for the "HTC to USA: No 3G..." message-thread.
I dont see the issue with asking the US 3G status question and getting a reply, rather than wading through 15 pages of postings in a huge thread. Discussion of everything from EDGE speeds, to speed-tests, performance in different areas, etc... but the question posed here is quite specific. Personally I've tried many searches and just looking to find status and how, if at all, I can help. Can we at least start a new thread to this end?
* Can anyone share a simple software/hardware issue for UD 3G with the Touch HD?
* How can [new people] people get involved to look into this kind of an issue?
Thanks for listening and any information...
D

kzw2zx said:
I do have to ask, due to this happening to me as well, when asking about status or news on 3G in the US for the HTC Touch HD everyone refers back to the link above for the "HTC to USA: No 3G..." message-thread.
I dont see the issue with asking the US 3G status question and getting a reply, rather than wading through 15 pages of postings in a huge thread. Discussion of everything from EDGE speeds, to speed-tests, performance in different areas, etc... but the question posed here is quite specific. Personally I've tried many searches and just looking to find status and how, if at all, I can help. Can we at least start a new thread to this end?
* Can anyone share a simple software/hardware issue for UD 3G with the Touch HD?
* How can [new people] people get involved to look into this kind of an issue?
Thanks for listening and any information...
D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think maybe people are somewhat brusque when answering this question because it has been asked so often with respect to other devices. That being said, I do not think anyone knows whether the issue with the HD is hardware or software related (please correct me if I am wrong). I know that some members have been working on making US 3G bands work for the non-AT&T Touch Pro (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2565338&postcount=2), so you may want to ask those guys how to get involved in starting up a similar project with the HD.
I would like to say, though, that I have been simply amazed at how well Edge has been performing on the HD. It is faster for mobile browsing than my US 3G Diamond, Touch Cruise, Tilt, and my wife's iPhone 3G with the 3G/H showing and all bars up. So if you are putting off a decision to get the phone based on mobile browsing speed, in my experience (and it is just that, my experience), I have not missed 3G at all.
I note that that I have been using the HD in New York City with AT&T, which means notoriously crappy service no matter what the technology the phone is capable of, and, of course, tethering, etc. might be a whole different story, so I realize that my experience is of limited use. Also, I am going to be in a Euro standard 3G country soon, so I may be singing a different tune once I see what the HD can really do
Anyway, just my 2 cents, and I wish you luck. If you get a project for 3G going, I will happily donate, as, I am sure, many other will, too.

The only GSM carriers in the US offering 3G capabilities are AT&T and T-Mobile. For 3G on the T-Mobile network, your phone must support both 1700 and 2100Mhz. The 2100Mhz bandwidth has been well-defined as the "D" (download) portion of HSDPA. I believe you will also see 3G referred to as WCMDA on the 2100Mhz spectrum. AT&T Wireless has opted for a more "standard" approach where they are reusing the original PCS frequency (1900Mhz) for the "U" (upload) portion of HSUPA.
To get true, bi-directional 3G, your device must include a software radio that supports both HSDPA and HSUPA. Anything else will be a hit-or-miss affair. While this may lead you to "rejoice" because our radios are software-based, be aware that the antennas in our phones are also a part of the equation.
Therefore, you will likely be able to use a Touch HD on the AT&T network at 3G speeds, but you will NOT (EVER) get 3G out of a Touch HD on the T-Mobile network in the US.
It's a real shame that T-Mobile chose to deviate from its parent (Deutsche Telekom - T-Mobile in Germany) on their frequency choice for 3G. It makes them odd-man out virtually world-wide. I suspect that they were unable to secure the rights to anything other than 1700Mhz, but I would argue that theie decision really crippled their users..... it's yet another reason why I would NEVER buy a G1. Really sad IMO.

simple and straight answer:
its a hardware issue ... you won't get US 3g on touch hd, period. (no rom update etc. will make it start working)

thesire said:
simple and straight answer:
its a hardware issue ... you won't get US 3g on touch hd, period. (no rom update etc. will make it start working)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple and straight answer back
No this is not true its a political issue, and the past shows already that it#s only a software issue, because the frequency range is so close to the European that the antenna is capable of those "between" frq.
The same is with Australia where some phones were original not capable but thr radio updates worked (nonofficial)
just my 2c

tobyp said:
It's a real shame that T-Mobile chose to deviate from its parent (Deutsche Telekom - T-Mobile in Germany) on their frequency choice for 3G. It makes them odd-man out virtually world-wide. I suspect that they were unable to secure the rights to anything other than 1700Mhz, but I would argue that theie decision really crippled their users..... it's yet another reason why I would NEVER buy a G1. Really sad IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC, they showed up for the auction of the ranges and lost bids for the more standard frequencies. They were left with what they have...

3G Big Deal
Ive said it once and ill say it again. Edge on my HD is FASTER than my 3G diamond!!!!!!!!...so there...

thesire said:
simple and straight answer:
its a hardware issue ... you won't get US 3g on touch hd, period. (no rom update etc. will make it start working)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is not a hardware issue. i know it has been mentioned else where in this forum and others, and we got "official word" that this is a hardware issue. but it is not. i didn't speak up earlier because i know if i did, people will ask me for sources. i don't have sources, i know because i work on these type of stuff.
in simple terms, the hardware is just an antenna, it is the "software" that should be tuned to interpret the signal. just like you can use regular analog TV antenna to catch over the air HD signals, it is the tuner that does the job.
however the software you are thinking (cab files or ROM files) won't solve this problem:
the hardware isn't flashed with the firmware, it is not enabled in the low level to understand the language EVEN IF the ROM file and high level application allows for the functionality.
everyone's familiar with computers, an analogy is: if you disable say sound in the BIOS (by using a older/different version of BIOS), you can install (what we call "FLASH" in the mobile world) OS you want, and you can install different audio drivers, you are not going to get that functionality.
so that is why you can flash left and right different Touch HD roms, you can enable/disable different registry keys that make it look like it has the 850MHz choices in the drop down menus, and you can always try different Radio ROMs, but you are not going to get a bit of that functionality if the hardware/feature is disabled at the lowest level. you need to flash the actual hardware (in this case the anthenna//baseband) with the correct firmware. and i am talking about the real firmware. I think the misconception here when everyone's talking about "i'm flashing my Radio's firmware to the latest one", they are actually talking about the equivalent of a "driver" in the windows world. the real firmware is even lower than those "firmwware".

Hey buggybug0
I read through your comments and it seems very logical to me. However, do you think that it is possible in the future that the us 3g band will be enabled through a "hardware flash"?

I cant wait until that day happens. So I should buy now so the price premium isn't higher. . . . .How long does it usually take to take a phone that has the bands enabled already then some how incorporate that FW with the one on the HD?

typhoon99 said:
Hey buggybug0
I read through your comments and it seems very logical to me. However, do you think that it is possible in the future that the us 3g band will be enabled through a "hardware flash"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this hardware flash already exists, but because we are flashing a lower level hardware, you need a special cable, in addition to the binary file. only HTC has this special development cable, the cable plugs directly onto the board (not the miniUSB or extUSB port). we can't use the extUSB port because this port has no access to the memory that governs the baseband low level functionality: this is much like the older computer BIOS which you can only flash through the floppy drive. i believe windows mobile is behind windows, so this is where things are right now. nowadays you can run a high level .exe file in windows and have it access and flash the low level BIOS, may be some day this will become possible on windows mobile with a cab file flashing the low level baseband. but for the time being, the analogy is you need a special cable to flash, just like you need a floppy drive to flash.
everyone kept on saying lack of US 3g is a hardware difficulty, i know for a fact that this is a business decision. as much as US loves gadgets, europe and asia are much bigger markets, (the coolest phones always gets to europe, korean, japan taiwan first, other than a certain fruity brand). i don't doubt when HTC said "by the time we bring Touch HD to US, there will be much better phones, they are using this one-phone-for-you, one-phone-for-me strategy to keep customers hooked--> they disable the US band, and make the touch HD exclusive to europe, so North AMerican customers are all drooling, when the next gen phone comes that and improves on touch HD (call it HD2 for argument sake), they will release it to another regional market (for example US), then all european people will all get jealous and hooked, and get their interest up while US customers are paying big bucks to get them, so the 3rd phone which improves upon the HD2, and release it in europe, they will be all over it. it's a very good strategy because customer never loses interest. becuase you always want something you can't get. and you DEFINITELY want something that is better than the previous gen which you can't get. this for HTC means that the demand for their phone is always there at a healthy high level.

So what was up with the TyTn and TyTn 2.
Were they not able to do both US and EU 3G speeds? I don't recall there being different EU and US versions (like the Diamond).
I was using a Softbank X01HT version TyTn and was getting HSDPA speeds.
I would be surprised the HTC decided to cripple the phones since.

The Juggler said:
So what was up with the TyTn and TyTn 2.
Were they not able to do both US and EU 3G speeds? I don't recall there being different EU and US versions (like the Diamond).
I was using a Softbank X01HT version TyTn and was getting HSDPA speeds.
I would be surprised the HTC decided to cripple the phones since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, there are HTC phones which had the same "BIOS", but the band were only disabled at the "driver" level, so the european brands of the same phone gets one Radio Rom while the US version gets a different Radio ROM. but since the functionality is already enabled at the lower level, it's just a matter of using a different radio rom (ie. driver) to enable the US 3G band.
I am not sure if the phone I am talking about is TyTn, but what I have same in the past 3 posts applies to a regular phone as well -- antenna is capable of receiving any frequency, it's up to the manufacture to insert the baseband software (this is the low level) to interpret those signals, then the interpretation gets passed onto the Radio stack (driver, radio rom), from there it goes to the operation system (winmob, symbian) then translates into applicatoin language to the actual application that's using the data (internet explorer, cell phone, IM app).

charlatan01 said:
IIRC, they showed up for the auction of the ranges and lost bids for the more standard frequencies. They were left with what they have...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your postulation could very well be the case. The fact remains that T-Mobile has created a 3G island for themselves and their subscribers here in the US. In my corporate discussions with T-Mobile, they demonstrate to me time and again that they simply do not "get it". Sad, very sad.
Only reason I stay with T-Mobile is the old (and I mean REALLY OLD) plan I have with them that no one has been able to beat cost-wise (plenty of minutes, unlimited data and hotspot access). I don't stay with them because they are at the top of the heap technically!

Well for those interested in the numebrs aspect, I have both the US and EU Diamond.
I tested both at dslreports.com using internet sharing. Same ROM (duttys 3.2), Same Radio (.05) , Same Laptop (via USB cable).
EU version (at EDGE speeds) came back at roughly 150 kbps.
US version (at H speeds) came back at roughly 450 kbps.
Of course this would only specifically apply to people in my area (Minneapolis). But it might shed some light on speed difference.

buggybug0,
until you provide your sources, your conclusions will remain a speculation for most of forum members. What you are saying may sound logical, but HTC may have different logic than you and you could still be wrong.
I agree with you that disabling 3G bands is a political decision though. And it's a commercial decision too. US carriers are apparently not looking to subsidize latest HTC handsets just yet for various reasons (T-Mob - due to G1, AT&T - due to iPhone 3G). However they will be shopping for new handsets sooner or later. If HTC releases a proper 3G quad-band device now, US carriers won't be happy and their further contracts for subsidized phones (which mean big money with no marketing/retail headaches for HTC) may never come in... Do they want to risk this big chunk? No.
Chances are you are right about the nature of band limitation problem and RF IC microcode may be crippled to support only certain bands on latest HTC devices. But it's still possible that some tracks are missing on the antenna PCB too. According to Qualcomm functional diagrams, it should be possible to multiplex RF signals for specific bands only.
This said, here's a challenge for you, prove your point with facts rather than speculations and you'll be a hero for a day.

[Q] Nexus One & Developer Phone

As my trusty ATT N1 soldiers on, I'm considering whether to jump to a new carrier in the near future so that I can stay current with upcoming Google Developer Phones. I would appreciate some feedback regarding the assumption that since the G1, Sapphire, and N1 were TMobile compliant, we can expect that the next Google Dev Phone might be exclusively flavored TMobile. Do you agree?
Thanks all.

We can assume sense they had a close relationship with Danger and now Google that they will stick with the same bands for Developer Phones. Just like we can only assume Google will stick with HTC for official Developer Phone hardware.
Again, this is only based on the past.

evilkorn said:
We can assume sense they had a close relationship with Danger and now Google that they will stick with the same bands for Developer Phones. Just like we can only assume Google will stick with HTC for official Developer Phone hardware.
Again, this is only based on the past.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true...only if we can trust history. thanks for sharing your thoughts.

lpasq said:
true...only if we can trust history. thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well history is all we have to go on.
one of the main reasons why T-mobile 3G bands have been used on the dev phones so far is because its the most compatible worldwide (ie works with the most carriers in the world, you can use them in the US, Canada and in Europe)
considering this its pretty likely to continue to stay this way. ATT 3G band is no where near as widely used and CDMA phones must be carrier specific (well they don't have to be really hardware wise but the way they work vs GSM phones its extremely dependant on the provider allowing you to use a phone that is not theirs on their network, it can be done but its a real pain to get them to do it)

Frito11 said:
...one of the main reasons why T-mobile 3G bands have been used on the dev phones so far is because its the most compatible worldwide (ie works with the most carriers in the world, you can use them in the US, Canada and in Europe)
considering this its pretty likely to continue to stay this way. ATT 3G band is no where near as widely used and CDMA phones must be carrier specific...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
understood

Diagnostic Mode

Anyone have any luck getting into diagnostic mode? I am in need of updating the PRL on my phone and I can't get it into diag mode for programming.

datoad said:
Anyone have any luck getting into diagnostic mode? I am in need of updating the PRL on my phone and I can't get it into diag mode for programming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are.. ummm... 6 or 10 different galaxy note 5 models. There are dozens of different carriers. Several dozen different countries.
Answering your question is impossible without more information.
However, "PRL" tends to be a CDMA thing (and one that Verizon is phasing out) - meaning that you're likely using a US Sprint (or less likely, a US Verizon) model... in which case you'd have better luck asking in those particular sections.

garyd9 said:
There are.. ummm... 6 or 10 different galaxy note 5 models. There are dozens of different carriers. Several dozen different countries.
Answering your question is impossible without more information.
However, "PRL" tends to be a CDMA thing (and one that Verizon is phasing out) - meaning that you're likely using a US Sprint (or less likely, a US Verizon) model... in which case you'd have better luck asking in those particular sections.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand but am actually using a US Cellular Note 5. Since there is no thread for this model, I posted in the general section. I have gone through every service menu that populates in the Phone Info Samsung app and found a section to put it in download mode but it does not work when I put it in. My computer makes no noise when plugging in the usb or removing it. I read in this thread that I had to enable CP Logging but I can't find that option either.

datoad said:
I understand but am actually using a US Cellular Note 5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
US Cellular (comical name when "cell phones" haven't worked on the "cell" or "cellular" concept in decades)... Anyway.. they use CDMA. Most likely, your device is closer related to Sprint or Verizon (both of which use CDMA.)
Have you considered calling up your wireless provider and asking them? Different CDMA carriers tend to use different mechanisms for updating preferred roaming lists. I know with some carriers, they can initiate the PRL update remotely...

I tried but it didn't work. I also called *228 and tried it that way but it failed as well. I'm trying to get this phone to recognize the Verizon Wireless network setup to get on LTE but I can't unless I can manually update the PRL. I am currently running this phone with Verizon but only 3G data..

datoad said:
I tried but it didn't work. I also called *228 and tried it that way but it failed as well. I'm trying to get this phone to recognize the Verizon Wireless network setup to get on LTE but I can't unless I can manually update the PRL. I am currently running this phone with Verizon but only 3G data..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... you have a US Cellular branded Note 5 and you're trying to use it on Verizon's network? Is that something that normally works with USC phones? Do you have a verizon SIM in the device? Is the device sim unlocked? Is this a roaming situation?
To be honest, you'd be much better off giving full information ahead of time instead of making people trying to guess at it. Your first post in this thread gave nearly 0 useful information. Your second suggests that you're using a USC branded device but gave no indication that you're trying to use it on VZW towers. Your third suggests that you are trying to use it with VZW towers, but doesn't say if you are trying to roam or using a VZW SIM, etc. (Note: most carrier branded devices are SIM-locked to that carrier - meaning you can't just use a SIM from another carrier and expect anything to work.)
That being said, you're also bordering an area that I need to back away from due to various professional NDA's. I'm quite sure, however, that others here can help you more (assuming you provide them the info they'd need to help you.)
Take care
Gary

To answer your main question:
garyd9 said:
So... you have a US Cellular branded Note 5 and you're trying to use it on Verizon's network? Is that something that normally works with USC phones? Do you have a verizon SIM in the device? Is the device sim unlocked? Is this a roaming situation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I have a US Cellular Note 5 and I am Currently using it on Verizon's Network. I am unsure if this is something that NORMALLY works, but in this case it has worked. I have a Verizon SIM in the device. Apparently, the device is sim unlocked. This is not a roaming situation.
garyd9 said:
To be honest, you'd be much better off giving full information ahead of time instead of making people trying to guess at it. Your first post in this thread gave nearly 0 useful information. Your second suggests that you're using a USC branded device but gave no indication that you're trying to use it on VZW towers. Your third suggests that you are trying to use it with VZW towers, but doesn't say if you are trying to roam or using a VZW SIM, etc. (Note: most carrier branded devices are SIM-locked to that carrier - meaning you can't just use a SIM from another carrier and expect anything to work.)
That being said, you're also bordering an area that I need to back away from due to various professional NDA's. I'm quite sure, however, that others here can help you more (assuming you provide them the info they'd need to help you.)
Take care
Gary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't mean to be blunt, but if you read my first post, I was only asking if anyone with this phone in general, regardless of model, had any luck with getting the device in diagnostic mode. I had stated what I was personally trying to accomplish with getting this particular phone to work as well just in case if anyone was wondering. If I needed to get into more details with the models, I would have gladly provided that information as well. I have read a few posts from people stating that they were able to get US Cellular phones working on Verizon's network but only with 3G Data. I took it upon myself to research the newest iteration of the Note line and found that for the most part they had inter-operable frequency bands. So with that being said, I reached out to the community for help in seeing if this phone was able to be put in diagnostic mode. That is all I had asked. I appreciate your trying to explain the differences within the different carriers technologies, but I already have a pretty good grasp on which carriers use which technologies. Thank You for your help.

datoad said:
I don't mean to be blunt, but if you read my first post, I was only asking if anyone with this phone in general, regardless of model, had any luck with getting the device in diagnostic mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome. This is a good example of why people like me tend to avoid helping people like you. First we have to beg and plead to get the information we need to help you, and then when we try to be helpful and suggest that you provide as much information as possible UP FRONT, you get "blunt."
Okay. Fine. I'll answer your question as asked. I'm sure you'll find it very unhelpful, but it's "blunt."
So, your answer: "Yes."
Have a nice day.

garyd9 said:
You are welcome. This is a good example of why people like me tend to avoid helping people like you. First we have to beg and plead to get the information we need to help you, and then when we try to be helpful and suggest that you provide as much information as possible UP FRONT, you get "blunt."
Okay. Fine. I'll answer your question as asked. I'm sure you'll find it very unhelpful, but it's "blunt."
So, your answer: "Yes."
Have a nice day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was able to get into diagnostic mode and complete what I needed to complete. Thanks.

What an obnoxious ass. If you didn't want to be helpful, why answer in the first place, except to be a smug jerk ?

Considering buying the phone, I have a couple questions.

This phone sounds amazing, but theres some conflicting information i've heard on it from multiple different sources.
1. Does the phone work on verizon? My current phone plan is on verizon, and it would be so much easier to just change out phones rather than move my entire wireless company to get this phone. I've heard that it does and it doesn't. Is it the chinese versions that don't? I'm american, so do the versions sold in America work with verizon? I went to my local verizon store, and they said it wouldn't, but the lady had to look it up on her phone but the article she saw might have been talking about the tencent version or something.
2. If it doesn't work on verizon, what other network would work better? I've heard that T-Mobile wouldn't work well for this phone, so maybe AT&T? Again, I would greatly prefer to just stick with Verizon.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE answer my questions, I've asked these questions in multiple places but no one has answered a reliable answer in any of them.

JegusChrist said:
This phone sounds amazing, but theres some conflicting information i've heard on it from multiple different sources.
1. Does the phone work on verizon? My current phone plan is on verizon, and it would be so much easier to just change out phones rather than move my entire wireless company to get this phone. I've heard that it does and it doesn't. Is it the chinese versions that don't? I'm american, so do the versions sold in America work with verizon? I went to my local verizon store, and they said it wouldn't, but the lady had to look it up on her phone but the article she saw might have been talking about the tencent version or something.
2. If it doesn't work on verizon, what other network would work better? I've heard that T-Mobile wouldn't work well for this phone, so maybe AT&T? Again, I would greatly prefer to just stick with Verizon.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE answer my questions, I've asked these questions in multiple places but no one has answered a reliable answer in any of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No on Verizon. Yes to tmobile and att. Chinese and international versions have different lte band support. Talk to your local tmobile and att reps to see which bands you need and verify on the Asus site for rog phone 2.

A few users here say they got it working on Verizon as a data only device, and it does support their LTE bands. For calls, they mostly use Google Voice but one buys a cheap subscription on an AT&T MVNO for calls.
It doesn't have band 71 support for TMO, which could make coverage an issue. AT&T has the best support from what I've seen.
Something else to note is this is not VoLTE certified in the U.S. It can only make calls on the GSM networks, and those will be shutting over the next few years. If you plan to keep the phone long term, expect to lose the ability to make any phone calls. You could move to Google Voice at that point, but you'd still be left with no 911 access. Asus has so far indicated they have no plans to certify it for VoLTE in the U.S. (even other region versions that do have VoLTE wouldn't be able to use it here).

Mr_Mooncatt said:
A few users here say they got it working on Verizon as a data only device, and it does support their LTE bands. For calls, they mostly use Google Voice but one buys a cheap subscription on an AT&T MVNO for calls.
It doesn't have band 71 support for TMO, which could make coverage an issue. AT&T has the best support from what I've seen.
Something else to note is this is not VoLTE certified in the U.S. It can only make calls on the GSM networks, and those will be shutting over the next few years. If you plan to keep the phone long term, expect to lose the ability to make any phone calls. You could move to Google Voice at that point, but you'd still be left with no 911 access. Asus has so far indicated they have no plans to certify it for VoLTE in the U.S. (even other region versions that do have VoLTE wouldn't be able to use it here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not exactly the best at phone lingo, i just stumbled across this website while looking up things about the phone.
That being said, can you tell me whether or not the phone is worth it? It seems like theres wayy too many disadvantages to this phone, and that kinda bugs me. I've been wanting this phone for a while, so I'd much rather get this than anything else.
If it's not really worth it, can you mention any other phones that are similar? mainly one that can emulate games just as good if not better than the ROG 2?

"Is it worth it?"
That is such a loaded question if you're in the U.S. That's something you'll have to decide for yourself based on your needs. If it had VoLTE here, then it would be worth every penny. All I can say is that for me, it isn't worth it. Yes, you get a ton of value for the phone. I'm on Verizon and would've been ok switching calls and texts to Google Voice. I also planned to keep it long term, likely after the GSM network shutdowns. I also drive for a living, hauling hazardous materials. So in my case, the inability to make a 911 call once those networks shut down is a very big concern. For me, that one reason alone is why I've decided to hold off on it.
On the flip side, if you don't have a problem with the 911 issue, or plan to switch phones in a year or two anyway, then this may very well be worth it in your case.
As for other options, I think the Nubia Red Magic 3s is likely the closest in terms of features and performance. It's not quite as bleeding edge as the ROG 2, but it's also a lot cheaper and has VoLTE calling. The Razer Phone 2 is another known option, but it's a generation older too and support may be questionable (rumor has it there may not be a Razer 3). I don't know a ton about either phone other than what I've read on their specs.

SM-G973F/DS in USA? Waste of time?

Long time lurker, first time poster here. First of all, a massive THANK YOU to everyone here. You guys and gals are Awesome! <3
So, I bought a Samsung S10 (SM-G973F/DS) on Ebay recently and flashed it to Lineage OS 19.1. All was fine until I tried to activate it. We did everything...manually changing the ASP settings, and a bunch of other stuff to try and get this thing to connect to the mobile network. Even placed the SIM card in another phone just to confirm the SIM card was fine, which it was.
Long story short, I think the device was perhaps locked even though the seller claimed it was unlocked. Whatever, I'm over it. I flashed stock back on it and re-locked the boot loader, sent it back. Not worth the aggravation. However, I am questioning if there wasn't something else I could have done?
I was trying to activate the S10 on Mint Mobile USA (a T-Mobile reseller, so GSM) it should have been fine. The default language on the device was German. I don't think that should matter, but maybe it does? Do European phones have problems activating in North America?
My question is: If I decide to get another S10 (SM-G973F/DS) from the secondary market (if its even worth it at this point, since the SM-G973F/DS is really hard to find), is there anything I can find out from the seller first so I don't end up having to send it back?
Or, should I just give up my dream of having an S10 installed with Lineage OS and it's glorious headphone jack and expandable storage forever? If so, are there any worthy alternatives to the S10 worth considering, given my affinity for headphone jacks and expandable storage?

Hello PhonePerfection, all a novel why you speak S10 G973F / DS in the United States.
Already your model S10 G973F/DS exynos 5G or the first 4G model so if these this Europe chip model, if now installed Samsung phone info look at who is scoring at worst take screenshots.
I don't understand your question United States, locked unlocked the seller.
You buy in the back market refurbished and unlocked telephone all operator therefore for sim card, the concern these the chip to install network either US or ASIA controls your model if these good SM-G973F/DS and not SM-G973U or G973U1.
Don't forget to say hello

I think what @meric57 is trying to say is that your phone doesn't have the right chips to communicate on the frequencies in the USA. It's made for other markets and other frequencies... so it won't work here.
If you use FrequencyCheck you can see what carriers support what frequencies on your specific model: https://www.frequencycheck.com/comp...m-td-lte-512gb-samsung-beyond-1/united-states
Scroll down to the "United States" area and you'll see it doesn't support the frequencies used in the USA (except for GSM 2.5, which is old and dead here in the USA). The US is primarily on LTE... and you can see that phone model doesn't support ANY of the available frequencies.
Bottom line "GSM" doesn't tell you enough. You have an incomatible phone model for the USA market. No SIM card will fix that.
Note, in SOME cases, you can activate other frequencies by loading different ROMs into the phone. My old LG V30 did this, for example. I have heard that you can run some Exynos phones here in the USA, but I don't know the details to help. FrequencyCheck may help you figure that out. Be sure the look for the complete model number, not just "Galaxy S10" or something... the naming is worthless for figuring this out.

schwinn8 said:
I think what @meric57 is trying to say is that your phone doesn't have the right chips to communicate on the frequencies in the USA. It's made for other markets and other frequencies... so it won't work here.
If you use FrequencyCheck you can see what carriers support what frequencies on your specific model: https://www.frequencycheck.com/compsomethingatibility/RdEkS7k/samsung-sm-g973f-ds-galaxy-s10-global-dual-sim-td-lte-512gb-samsung-beyond-1/united-states
Scroll down to the "United States" area and you'll see it doesn't support the frequencies used in the USA (except for GSM 2.5, which is old and dead here in the USA). The US is primarily on LTE... and you can see that phone model doesn't support ANY of the available frequencies.
Bottom line "GSM" doesn't tell you enough. You have an incomatible phone model for the USA market. No SIM card will fix that.
Note, in SOME cases, you can activate other frequencies by loading different ROMs into the phone. My old LG V30 did this, for example. I have heard that you can run some Exynos phones here in the USA, but I don't know the details to help. FrequencyCheck may help you figure that out. Be sure the look for the complete model number, not just "Galaxy S10" or something... the naming is worthless for figuring this out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
schwinn8 said:
I think what @meric57 is trying to say is that your phone doesn't have the right chips to communicate on the frequencies in the USA. It's made for other markets and other frequencies... so it won't work here.
If you use FrequencyCheck you can see what carriers support what frequencies on your specific model: https://www.frequencycheck.com/comp...m-td-lte-512gb-samsung-beyond-1/united-states
Scroll down to the "United States" area and you'll see it doesn't support the frequencies used in the USA (except for GSM 2.5, which is old and dead here in the USA). The US is primarily on LTE... and you can see that phone model doesn't support ANY of the available frequencies.
Bottom line "GSM" doesn't tell you enough. You have an incomatible phone model for the USA market. No SIM card will fix that.
Note, in SOME cases, you can activate other frequencies by loading different ROMs into the phone. My old LG V30 did this, for example. I have heard that you can run some Exynos phones here in the USA, but I don't know the details to help. FrequencyCheck may help you figure that out. Be sure the look for the complete model number, not just "Galaxy S10" or something... the naming is worthless for figuring this out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, this is great info. Good to know. It looks like that S10 could only communicate on 1 of 8 bands used by Mint/T-Mobile. That 1 usable band appears to have been deprecated by T-Mobile as it is. I think that explains it perfectly. Thank You!

You're welcome.
Yeah, frequencies/bands are very important to watch, particularly if you're buying out of market devices. You have to know model numbers and carriers to be sure of anything, and unfortunately this info is relatively hidden.

schwinn8 said:
You're welcome.
Yeah, frequencies/bands are very important to watch, particularly if you're buying out of market devices. You have to know model numbers and carriers to be sure of anything, and unfortunately this info is relatively hidden.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The CSC on that device was DBT (Germany). I had to find that out in order to put the correct stock OS back on there.
Makes me wonder if the ebay seller even knows this. They appear to specialize in mobile phones with tens of thousands of transactions, so I would hope they've encountered this situation before. They were more than happy to accept a return on the device. Sent me a prepaid shipping label immediately.
Back to the CSC... Let's say I look for another S10 (SM-G973F/DS) but I ask what the CSC is for that device. Are there any regions outside the lower 48 states with reasonably good chances of it working? I suppose I would need to study the mobile frequency website for the answer to that.

I did some quick searching, and supposedly there are websites that say the 973F/DS will work on MM (mint mobile)... but they don't detail how. For example: https://de-googled.com/blogs/news/a-word-on-network-compatibility-of-our-degoogled-phones
and https://www.ebay.com/p/15030406771 (in the description).
So, maybe it is possible? I don't know, so maybe someone else can chime in.
Personally, I stuck with U-version phones and gave up rooting/romming. It's just getting too hard to find phones that offer this, so I figured I'd just adapt back to a stock ROM, since choices are limited. I had done a bunch of that in the past, but I found that stock roms (today) are pretty good... and allow enough customization that made root/rom unnecessary... for me. My current is an SM-G975U1 (unlocked, USA, Snapdragon S10+) on Total Wireless (VZ MVNO)... it works great and I don't miss root/rom at all.
Rumor is that the Galaxy S23 will only be offered as Snapdragon, so maybe that will open up more options... but I doubt it. Samsung loves it's Knox system, and will likely lock down the phone even more with every generation.

schwinn8 said:
I did some quick searching, and supposedly there are websites that say the 973F/DS will work on MM (mint mobile)... but they don't detail how. For example: https://de-googled.com/blogs/news/a-word-on-network-compatibility-of-our-degoogled-phones
and https://www.ebay.com/p/15030406771 (in the description).
So, maybe it is possible? I don't know, so maybe someone else can chime in.
Personally, I stuck with U-version phones and gave up rooting/romming. It's just getting too hard to find phones that offer this, so I figured I'd just adapt back to a stock ROM, since choices are limited. I had done a bunch of that in the past, but I found that stock roms (today) are pretty good... and allow enough customization that made root/rom unnecessary... for me. My current is an SM-G975U1 (unlocked, USA, Snapdragon S10+) on Total Wireless (VZ MVNO)... it works great and I don't miss root/rom at all.
Rumor is that the Galaxy S23 will only be offered as Snapdragon, so maybe that will open up more options... but I doubt it. Samsung loves it's Knox system, and will likely lock down the phone even more with every generation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the link. I think I may try for an S10 again if the seller can tell me what the CSC is. That page on De-googled.com affirms that American devices are more restrictive than their European counterparts.
It just doesn't make any sense to me personally to use a device with an open source OS that has loads of telemetry, spyware, bloat, etc. Which is a contradiction that I am not comfortable with. It's like installing a Linux distro that comes bundled with Facebook.
To me, being proactive about privacy is the equivalent to standing up for yourself in the real world. Sure, you can use a stock ROM and there is nothing wrong with that. It's having the freedom to choose which is most important. So long as that choice is available, I will happily go that route.
I like the added bonus of an Android device that seems faster with a longer lasting battery as well. I mean, I paid for this device. I should have the right to decide what apps are running on it.

No argument there... I agree with why we should be allowed to root/rom. Unfortunately, the carriers pull the strings in the USA (business over people) so we are losing options. Frankly, it pisses me off that they can still prevent phones from connecting to their network just because the IMEI doesn't match (even if the software is correct). In the end, if the device CAN work on the network, the carrier should have no say in allowing/disallowing it on the network. They like to claim that a "bad" device could "hurt" the network, but if that happens, they can lock out that phone and figure it out. I doubt that's even ever happened, but whatever. (They prevented me from using my already-working V30 US998 phone on the network, even though it ran as VS996 with no issues for years... they only later saw the IMEI wasn't "theirs" (original SIM card failed) so they prevented me from re-registering it. So stupid.)
Good luck, and let us know if you figure it out... I'm always curious to learn!

yes, most japan and europe phones do not have the correct radios channels in them for 4g and 5g. i ran into this same problem with my xperia phones that i bought overseas. this is a common problem that can happen.

The S10 and all it's variants is a world compatible GSM phone. So yes, the F variant should work with most GSM carriers and resellers in N. America.
There are various websites that will tell you what frequencies and carriers any particular model will work with if you do a search. Like this one.
WillMyPhoneWork.net - Check if your phone works on a network
Check 2G, 3G, and 4G LTE Network Frequency Compatibility for a Smartphone, Tablet, and Mobile Device in any Country and Mobile Network Carrier
willmyphonework.net
According to that site the SM-G973F/DS supports all 2G, 3G, and 4G frequencies used by Mint.