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Hi,
I decided to make my 1st post. I've been visiting XDA for some time and flashed several ROM's. I want to say thank you for everyone responsible for making XDA what it is today.
My question is regarding AT&T & Custom ROM. I currently work for AT&T and use a captivate provided by the company. I have flashed several i9000 ROM's and they're absolutely great. My concern is that AT&T can tell that I have a custom ROM/Modem on the network. I understand that they can tell on the device itself but how about the network. I'm guessing if I'm using the i9000 ROM it would be visible to the engineers.
Thank you in advance for your reply
I also work for AT&T. Without physically looking at the phone, I believe the only way they could tell would be if the software imei (*#06#) does not match the phone's imei (under battery) - since the software imei is transmitted to the network. This is why if you change sims, the network still knows what phone you are using.
Pardon me for asking the obvious, but if both of you work for AT$T, can't you get us some info on the 2.2 update? Had to ask.
LOL.. depends on where they work.
If they both work at a Retail outlet selling phones? Then uh no.
Miami_Son said:
Pardon me for asking the obvious, but if both of you work for AT$T, can't you get us some info on the 2.2 update? Had to ask.[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.
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avgjoegeek said:
LOL.. depends on where they work.
If they both work at a Retail outlet selling phones? Then uh no.
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I do not sell the phones and do not work at a retail location. I do however support the stores in making sure all the reps know the products.
[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.[/QUOTE]
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10
alaimar said:
I do not sell the phones and do not work at a retail location. I do however support the stores in making sure all the reps know the products.
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Then you would know - Thanks for the update. If AT&T would put out little updates like this one - many a user would be happy.
Go figure with twitter, facebook, myspace, email, txting, telephone, and hell even pen and paper - we still fail at one basic thing COMMUNICATION.
c0ldburn3r said:
[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.
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Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10[/QUOTE]
I agree with the flashing; however in regards to Apple core AT&T is looking at every possible way to stop sucking on it. As you know the exclusivity is expiring and they're doing everything possible to adjust. BB Torch and WP7 is a perfect example of that. US market is behind simply due to all the limitations every carrier wants to implement on every device and make sure that it's loaded with bloatware.
alaimar said:
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10
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Click to collapse
I agree with the flashing; however in regards to Apple core AT&T is looking at every possible way to stop sucking on it. As you know the exclusivity is expiring and they're doing everything possible to adjust. BB Torch and WP7 is a perfect example of that. US market is behind simply due to all the limitations every carrier wants to implement on every device and make sure that it's loaded with bloatware.[/QUOTE]
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
Jofaba said:
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
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Wireless carriers are not fans of customization as it usaualy removes their bloatware and enables features that they like to charge for ( wireless AP). From the manufacturers perspective using custom rom's can result in hardware damage. Imagine if it didn't how many bricked phones would be going back. Manufacturer always sets the warranty policy carrier's just enforce it.
I think att will ditch the captivate all together. I kinda dont even think we will see an official froyo.
what could be holding it back?
this is just my opinion
Krooked22 said:
I think att will ditch the captivate all together. I kinda dont even think we will see an official froyo.
what could be holding it back?
this is just my opinion
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AT&T has no choice when it comes to Android. Ralph's made it publicly known that he doesn't like Android at all. With market share growing fast they are definitely working on beefing up their Android lineup ASAP
alaimar said:
Wireless carriers are not fans of customization as it usaualy removes their bloatware and enables features that they like to charge for ( wireless AP). From the manufacturers perspective using custom rom's can result in hardware damage. Imagine if it didn't how many bricked phones would be going back. Manufacturer always sets the warranty policy carrier's just enforce it.
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I'm not trying to be rude but I asked about the manufacturer not the carrier. I fully understand the carrier's stance. That'd be like if I called Time Warner and *****ed to them about having problems getting online and was using Ubuntu, which they didn't support or even understand.
I'm saying Samsung. Why would they care? Unless they could prove that your customization caused the problem, how can they instantly void your warranty simply by using different software?
i would guess that overclocking might be a reason. aslo, even though bricking your phone is something that they can (most likely)reflash-stock and resell refurb, because retail reps will warratny your phone not knowing what the cause was ( you know that no one walks into store admitting they are to blame for phone issue so they assume it's faulty and process warranty to keep you happy
Jofaba said:
I'm not trying to be rude but I asked about the manufacturer not the carrier. I fully understand the carrier's stance. That'd be like if I called Time Warner and *****ed to them about having problems getting online and was using Ubuntu, which they didn't support or even understand.
I'm saying Samsung. Why would they care? Unless they could prove that your customization caused the problem, how can they instantly void your warranty simply by using different software?
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Well for one you didn't specify that you are referring to the manufacturer. You're comparing apple to oranges. At&t handles manufacturers warranty themselves and time Warner has nothing to do with your hardware ; -) You also answered your own question, they really have no way of proving it, therefore they created a legal document that gives them the right to screw you : -)
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Jofaba said:
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
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This isn't only software in a sense, you are flashing a chip...that's why they call it ROM flashing. Now if you were to flash your BIOS chip, I'm sure your motherboard manufacturer wouldn't hand out a refund either.
Another point to tackle, custom software is not frowned upon by Google(GPL), but when a bunch of kids come in complaining why their AT&T phones won't turn on because they don't know what flashing, ROMs and how video cards INTERFACE with operating systems the carrier may have issues.
They instantly void your warranty because they are trained to troubleshoot their hardware with approved software, not with your software which can trickle down and affect everything about the phone leading to a myriad of issues.
It's not what you know, it's what you can prove and even then that's a two sided coin and left up to the manufacturer to say you aren't covered under the warranty. But if you're slick and can seep through the cracks make a backup of your "default" OS... ROM whatever and save it for that very rainy day when you need it.
http://www.facebook.com/motorola?sk=wall&filter=1 click the link people like it and comment on it.
I have seen first hand proof of this working. I had an evo 3d. Htc decided all futre devices would have locked bootliaders well that made alot of people angry. Someone posted a thread on xda suggesting we let htc know that is not gna fly. So it turnd out thousands of people got on there facebook wall and twitter. Guess what the next day htc released a statement saying that they wanted too keep there coustamers happy and that the bootloader would be unlocked. They were. Id like to be able too have a device and not have too get a new one juzt because moto or htc or sammy wants too put them out constantly get people too buy them and then ditch them and out out another. The atrix is 100 percent capable of runing ics and theres no excuae for it l not too recieve it just because moto wants people too buy new devices every couple months. I know many many people feel the same way well as i said we have the power too change that if people would stop bickering and take it seriously. And also if moto started supporting devices longer not just bug fixes but the new android flavors. Id definately make my next device a moto it would do nothing but benefit them
Why are we discussing/petitioning something that we don't know? Has it been set in stone that manufacturers will not support us anymore or is this all stemming from paranoia?
Because it is the trend. And the atrix 2 has been released already. All the manufactures with the exception of sammy have been doing this more and more lately abandoning. Devices. And pumping out new ones. At a very fast pace
So you are saying they are not going to support the atrix anymore since they released the atrix 2? I'd rather wait till this actually happens before i draw a conclusion. e.g. when ICS gets released and they say they are not going to update the atrix.
Kailkti said:
So you are saying they are not going to support the atrix anymore since they released the atrix 2? I'd rather wait till this actually happens before i draw a conclusion. e.g. when ICS gets released and they say they are not going to update the atrix.
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Look at the original Incredible.
My wife's one has been turned to **** since the 2.3.4 update, and nothing from HTC, and Verizon pretty much said too bad so sad. Buy another phone or deal with it.
So yes, support will be dropped for older models whether you like to assumed it or not.
Papi4baby said:
Look at the original Incredible.
My wife's one has been turned to **** since the 2.3.4 update, and nothing from HTC, and Verizon pretty much said too bad so sad. Buy another phone or deal with it.
So yes, support will be dropped for older models whether you like to assumed it or not.
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No it is obvious support is going to be dropped for old models. But he is implying that models released this year will not get support.
I think for every $10 a phone costs over $50 on launch day (on contract) is how many months it should be updated for. So a $300 phone should be kept updated for 25 months. So this would either keep phone prices lower or keep them updated.
Facebook is a poor way of getting the attention of corporations. You want them to change? Buy a nexus phone. Money talks.
Kailkti said:
No it is obvious support is going to be dropped for old models. But he is implying that models released this year will not get support.
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I think ICS only has support for Armv7 currently, so phones with those SoCs will get updated. However, phones using custom UIs will experience a longer waiting time, maybe around early Q1 of 2012. HTC has released like 1000 phones in the last few months and I doubt most will get ICS soon, not sure if Moto will bother at all. But it might be better to wait and actually see what goes down, like you said.
Has HTC in fact locked a boot loader or withheld hardware drivers?
I intend for my next phone to be HTC just because of the hell Samsung put us though trying to get GB on the i9000.
Handsome Rob said:
Has HTC in fact locked a boot loader or withheld hardware drivers?
I intend for my next phone to be HTC just because of the hell Samsung put us though trying to get GB on the i9000.
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HTC new phones i believe i read come locked.
You can unlock them direct with HTC, but you loose all warranty. As per HTC.
Papi4baby said:
HTC new phones i believe i read come locked.
You can unlock them direct with HTC, but you loose all warranty. As per HTC.
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As I understand it, you lose all ROM related warranty, so for instance if your screen fails then you're still covered.
Motorola unlocking bootloaders ??
you should check this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1316722
I had a motorola xt720.... not the best phone..but was ok. Motorola decided to stop supporting it within 4 months of launch or something stupid like that. No new updates no nothing. And still insisted on the bootloader staying locked so the dev's found it alot harder to do their job for them.
I will never ever buy a motorola product again.
The market is fairly competitive ... don't buy from companies that pull this crap
A lesser minority of USERS jump over the fence and update their phones to open mode despite the contracts. Thus LG's constant end-user PC updates to restrain users from updating to whatever stock ROM they want.
What LG doesn't see is something that TIM Brazil as well as other carriers worldwide do. TIM Brazil buys the phones with a big discount and sell them unlocked at full price.
In the end of the story LG gets stolen, the users don't get their updates as they become available AND the ONLY WINNER HERE is TIM Brazil, among other carriers worldwide. Even in Britain.
I think it's about time LG stopped blaming users and started making carrier contracts get fulfilled. Become more open!!!
Since LG is constantly watching this forum, I believe this will end up getting to the proper channels.
Honestly i didn't completely understand the problem, but i hope they read your post.
And since there is a thread with this title; I want to add what i always say. What LG would worry is to lose customers. You already released Gingerbread waaay toooo late. So that already made people verrryy angry. And after you released it people saw that you were working on a way to cripple rooting. So thats strike 2.
I can't talk for everbody but we didn't buy our phones for "irreplaceable" LG roms. It is an elegant, smooth phone. It is not a performance phone (which i don't care about) It is a P/P phone (price-performance) phone. Best out there for that price. And the second reason is Android. Meaning freedom. To able to do everything you want with your phone.
So.. If i wanted a restricted phone, to let the company empose everything on me i would have bought iPhone. At least they update regulary, give service and updates even to the oldest devices. But no we want to be the master of our phone. Because it's OUR phone. We paid for it, so we should be able to do anything with it. You supply the rom what we do with it is our problem. You already say rooting dismisses warranty. Isn't that enough? So i say LG people should work HARD on customer "satisfaction", not customer "restriction"
(Btw, i am an LG fan. My monitor, my television, my phone... all LG. Not my tablet though that land is still in Apple's reign. So i write this critic to be constructive. I hope someone reads and they stop the nonsense. )
It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
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Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
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Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
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Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
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From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
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+1
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.
Hi all. I'm posting this in General because it's a general request. I'd like to see if we can pressure LG a little by sending as many requests as we possibly can to get them to reconsider their stance on this locked bootloader crap. Here is a copy of what I sent. I encourage everyone to register at [url="https://developer.lge.com] the LG Developer site[/url] and post their requests. I also emailed them at [email protected] with the following:
DaemeonZane said:
To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing to you today with a request for more information regarding the locked bootloader of all LG G4 devices, save the European G4 variant, the H815.
In the past, LG has been a developer friendly company that has, albeit somewhat grudgingly, supported development of custom software for their devices. As the owner of many LG devices, it saddens me to no end that your company no longer seems to support the unlocking of its many Android devices.
Unlocking one variant whilst refusing to even consider unlocking the others in a series is tantamount to shooting yourselves in the foot as a company. While many believe that securing the bootloader will prevent warranty issues with the devices in question, by not allowing the software (and hardware) to be utilised to its full potential, you run the risk of people attempting to modify their phones through unsupported and unsafe means, increasing the overall cost of replacements and repairs to both yourself as well as the companies you supply with these devices.
Furthermore, you have not released the source for all the G4 variants, which makes testing almost impossible.
We, the staff at Tofflemire Tech Solutions, as well as the development community as a whole, respectfully request that you consider unlocking the bootloaders of your devices, specifically the G4 and G5 variants. We also respectfully request that, should you continue to keep these bootloaders locked, that you provide us with a reason as to why they cannot/should not be unlocked.
Respectfully,
David Tofflemire, Lead Consultant
Tofflemire Tech Solutions
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I support you , and i also write in LG. Please send answer LG, if they respond.
They're being real bastards about this, but I'll tell you what... Despite the G series being the perfect design for a giant like me, I will NOT be buying the G5 unless its bootloader is unlocked on ALL carrier variants. As much as I loathe to abandon LG, the in-hand comfort just isn't enough to make me stay when I can't flash my own kernel for battery optimizations, or my own radio for signal improvements, or my own ROMs for overall performance boosts and the ability to convert it to (with the exception of proprietary blobs for certain hardware) an open phone, free of Google services or any nonfree software.
LG really screwed the pooch with the G4 by taking a phone with great specs, expandability options, and form factor considerations then locking it down for no good reason aside from "warranty" issues. Fact is, 90% of us would restore it back to stock in a way that THEY can't even tell it's been modified as the VERY FIRST thing we'd do if it bricked, and if that didn't fix it, then it most likely is a valid warranty issue and not something the user did.
agentfusion said:
They're being real bastards about this, but I'll tell you what... Despite the G series being the perfect design for a giant like me, I will NOT be buying the G5 unless its bootloader is unlocked on ALL carrier variants. As much as I loathe to abandon LG, the in-hand comfort just isn't enough to make me stay when I can't flash my own kernel for battery optimizations, or my own radio for signal improvements, or my own ROMs for overall performance boosts and the ability to convert it to (with the exception of proprietary blobs for certain hardware) an open phone, free of Google services or any nonfree software.
LG really screwed the pooch with the G4 by taking a phone with great specs, expandability options, and form factor considerations then locking it down for no good reason aside from "warranty" issues. Fact is, 90% of us would restore it back to stock in a way that THEY can't even tell it's been modified as the VERY FIRST thing we'd do if it bricked, and if that didn't fix it, then it most likely is a valid warranty issue and not something the user did.
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Agreed. I'll probably go with the next Nexus phone next time.
DaemeonZane said:
Hi all. I'm posting this in General because it's a general request. I'd like to see if we can pressure LG a little by sending as many requests as we possibly can to get them to reconsider their stance on this locked bootloader crap. Here is a copy of what I sent. I encourage everyone to register at [url="https://developer.lge.com] the LG Developer site[/url] and post their requests. I also emailed them at [email protected] with the following:
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Well i sent lg a email ofcoarse straight to the trash there offical word is no plan to ever spport ls991 wow cold lg. Looks like im nott keeping this phone after all after having this thing for a few days i love it but i cant type for nothin the on screen keys are so innacurate sprint says 14 days i have to returen it i want my g3 back i traded in
I'm with Agentfusion I'll be forced to move on from the G series if we don't get a bootloader unlock. ?
2348z said:
I'm with Agentfusion I'll be forced to move on from the G series if we don't get a bootloader unlock.
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I agree 100%. I should have just waited and paid full price for a N6P.
I'll be honest, I've been doing some research on doing that sort of hack, but it's gonna be a damn hard thing...damn hard.
Im meeting some lg engineers for a week. I could ask them if they worked in the mobile division
How'd it go?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So far they've declined to comment in any way. I have a feeling they're getting tired of responding.
I'm moving to the Moto X Pure good bye g4
Yeah, I think most of us here won't be staying with LG in the future.