Related
I have recently purchased a Nexus One and i must say it is an amazing phone, but also very expensive! I just spent £370 on buying this brand new phone. Which brings me onto my main point, should i risk rooting or not?
I am confident with the rooting proccess and have rooted my hero etc etc, but i was happy to do so because i could also reinstall an official RUU incase something went wrong. However as we know with the N1 its not that simple. I want to be able to use features such as trackball to wake, and using the lights for notifications, being able to install market enabler and apps like autokiller and also being able to theme my nexus - but to do small things like this i still need to root my phone and void my warrenty.
So ive decided to ask you guys on wether you think it is worth my rooting my nexus one, and voiding my warrenty, or making do with no true customisational potential?
(Also silently hopeing someone finds a way to lock the bootloader :'( )
thanks
Just root it already. No regrets. I asked the same question.
But
But what if anything goes wrong with the phone over the next year? Just seems unecassary that i have to loose my warrenty to be able to make small customisations to the phone
I didn't root my phone in the first 5-6 weeks or so then once I had seen there were no obvious hardware faults I rooted it. It might be safe to take a similar approach.
Is totally up to you.. 2 things:
If you are affraid of bricking your phone due to flashing, don't be. Rule of thumb is always do Nandroid. And flash all you want. The exceptions are Radio's which pose higer risks of bricking.
That leaves hardware issues. If your screen cracks, battery explodes or button cease to function, HTC might switch your phone regardless if you have unlocked boot-loader or not. But im not sure how HTC customer service are in UK. People have done it in US and HTC didn't even raised an eyebrow to this.
edit:
like nDrg says, is to roadtest your phone for some weeks, see if no dust crops up under the screen, or other things starts to defect. Errors on new phones usually reveal themselves in the first weeks.
rooted just after 1 day i receive it lol and Froyo inside my nexus one since Yesterday Yes From France ^^
Hmm
Ok thanks for your feedback. I was having a think and i decided to wait untill froyo comes officially to UK, and if thats not good enough to keep me happy then i will root. Thanks
Hi,
I decided to make my 1st post. I've been visiting XDA for some time and flashed several ROM's. I want to say thank you for everyone responsible for making XDA what it is today.
My question is regarding AT&T & Custom ROM. I currently work for AT&T and use a captivate provided by the company. I have flashed several i9000 ROM's and they're absolutely great. My concern is that AT&T can tell that I have a custom ROM/Modem on the network. I understand that they can tell on the device itself but how about the network. I'm guessing if I'm using the i9000 ROM it would be visible to the engineers.
Thank you in advance for your reply
I also work for AT&T. Without physically looking at the phone, I believe the only way they could tell would be if the software imei (*#06#) does not match the phone's imei (under battery) - since the software imei is transmitted to the network. This is why if you change sims, the network still knows what phone you are using.
Pardon me for asking the obvious, but if both of you work for AT$T, can't you get us some info on the 2.2 update? Had to ask.
LOL.. depends on where they work.
If they both work at a Retail outlet selling phones? Then uh no.
Miami_Son said:
Pardon me for asking the obvious, but if both of you work for AT$T, can't you get us some info on the 2.2 update? Had to ask.[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
avgjoegeek said:
LOL.. depends on where they work.
If they both work at a Retail outlet selling phones? Then uh no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not sell the phones and do not work at a retail location. I do however support the stores in making sure all the reps know the products.
[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.[/QUOTE]
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10
alaimar said:
I do not sell the phones and do not work at a retail location. I do however support the stores in making sure all the reps know the products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you would know - Thanks for the update. If AT&T would put out little updates like this one - many a user would be happy.
Go figure with twitter, facebook, myspace, email, txting, telephone, and hell even pen and paper - we still fail at one basic thing COMMUNICATION.
c0ldburn3r said:
[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10[/QUOTE]
I agree with the flashing; however in regards to Apple core AT&T is looking at every possible way to stop sucking on it. As you know the exclusivity is expiring and they're doing everything possible to adjust. BB Torch and WP7 is a perfect example of that. US market is behind simply due to all the limitations every carrier wants to implement on every device and make sure that it's loaded with bloatware.
alaimar said:
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the flashing; however in regards to Apple core AT&T is looking at every possible way to stop sucking on it. As you know the exclusivity is expiring and they're doing everything possible to adjust. BB Torch and WP7 is a perfect example of that. US market is behind simply due to all the limitations every carrier wants to implement on every device and make sure that it's loaded with bloatware.[/QUOTE]
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
Jofaba said:
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wireless carriers are not fans of customization as it usaualy removes their bloatware and enables features that they like to charge for ( wireless AP). From the manufacturers perspective using custom rom's can result in hardware damage. Imagine if it didn't how many bricked phones would be going back. Manufacturer always sets the warranty policy carrier's just enforce it.
I think att will ditch the captivate all together. I kinda dont even think we will see an official froyo.
what could be holding it back?
this is just my opinion
Krooked22 said:
I think att will ditch the captivate all together. I kinda dont even think we will see an official froyo.
what could be holding it back?
this is just my opinion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T has no choice when it comes to Android. Ralph's made it publicly known that he doesn't like Android at all. With market share growing fast they are definitely working on beefing up their Android lineup ASAP
alaimar said:
Wireless carriers are not fans of customization as it usaualy removes their bloatware and enables features that they like to charge for ( wireless AP). From the manufacturers perspective using custom rom's can result in hardware damage. Imagine if it didn't how many bricked phones would be going back. Manufacturer always sets the warranty policy carrier's just enforce it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not trying to be rude but I asked about the manufacturer not the carrier. I fully understand the carrier's stance. That'd be like if I called Time Warner and *****ed to them about having problems getting online and was using Ubuntu, which they didn't support or even understand.
I'm saying Samsung. Why would they care? Unless they could prove that your customization caused the problem, how can they instantly void your warranty simply by using different software?
i would guess that overclocking might be a reason. aslo, even though bricking your phone is something that they can (most likely)reflash-stock and resell refurb, because retail reps will warratny your phone not knowing what the cause was ( you know that no one walks into store admitting they are to blame for phone issue so they assume it's faulty and process warranty to keep you happy
Jofaba said:
I'm not trying to be rude but I asked about the manufacturer not the carrier. I fully understand the carrier's stance. That'd be like if I called Time Warner and *****ed to them about having problems getting online and was using Ubuntu, which they didn't support or even understand.
I'm saying Samsung. Why would they care? Unless they could prove that your customization caused the problem, how can they instantly void your warranty simply by using different software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for one you didn't specify that you are referring to the manufacturer. You're comparing apple to oranges. At&t handles manufacturers warranty themselves and time Warner has nothing to do with your hardware ; -) You also answered your own question, they really have no way of proving it, therefore they created a legal document that gives them the right to screw you : -)
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Jofaba said:
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't only software in a sense, you are flashing a chip...that's why they call it ROM flashing. Now if you were to flash your BIOS chip, I'm sure your motherboard manufacturer wouldn't hand out a refund either.
Another point to tackle, custom software is not frowned upon by Google(GPL), but when a bunch of kids come in complaining why their AT&T phones won't turn on because they don't know what flashing, ROMs and how video cards INTERFACE with operating systems the carrier may have issues.
They instantly void your warranty because they are trained to troubleshoot their hardware with approved software, not with your software which can trickle down and affect everything about the phone leading to a myriad of issues.
It's not what you know, it's what you can prove and even then that's a two sided coin and left up to the manufacturer to say you aren't covered under the warranty. But if you're slick and can seep through the cracks make a backup of your "default" OS... ROM whatever and save it for that very rainy day when you need it.
[Tutorial][Bell Atrix]What need to be done before Warranty Service?
It applies all the Bell Atrix, doesn’t matter you have Orange FR 2.1.1 or UK 2.2.3 on the phone or whatever
Simple Version:
Make sure you have CWM Recovery on it(http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1019143)
Download the stock system.img (http://www.multiupload.com/T6L5RS2WH1), if you have the backup by nandroid, you can skip this step
Enter CWM Recovery to restore system.img only, then do Wipe out Data&Cache, or Force Close will be with you!
Install GingerBreak to root your phone, you can download from here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1044765
Install CMW Recovery again, but this time, choose CHARGE MODE in order to uninstall the custom recovery
Use GingerBreak to un-root the phone
Do a factory again, then you are ready to throw this phone to any Bell Retail Store for repair
Just remind that Bell will take 4~6weeks to get your phone fixed, if you need a loaner phone, it’s $25+tax, ask before borrow since some store doesn’t even have smartphone to lend…
Full Detail Version coming soon...
Thanks, good tut to have.
Stock Bell Atrix on Rogers with updated radio, Rooted, deodexed, Honeycomb theme, and frozen!
With glad root and webtop mod on stock firmware would it be ok to just return the stock web top files and unrooted for warranty?
Why wouldn't you just a sbfflash...?
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
hoodlikegaza said:
Why wouldn't you just a sbfflash...?
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because there is no Bell SBF available (to date)
scorneil said:
Because there is no Bell SBF available (to date)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but in your tutorial you're just removing root access and custom recovery. You're not changing the firmware from the phone back to 0.3.7 (Bell firmware) because there isn't a Bell SBF to flash (you're right about that). If one was already running 2.1.1 or 2.2.3 with root access, they could simply reflash their respective SBF's and it would produce the same results as your tutorial. Maybe I'm missing something from your guide, but as far as I understand, once you've flashed a different SBF, there is no way of getting back to official Bell. Your guide seems to be a roundabout way to get back to stock 2.1.1 or 2.2.3 for warranty purposes, while a simple reflash would produce the same results.
thegregulator said:
Yes, but in your tutorial you're just removing root access and custom recovery. You're not changing the firmware from the phone back to 0.3.7 (Bell firmware) because there isn't a Bell SBF to flash (you're right about that). If one was already running 2.1.1 or 2.2.3 with root access, they could simply reflash their respective SBF's and it would produce the same results as your tutorial. Maybe I'm missing something from your guide, but as far as I understand, once you've flashed a different SBF, there is no way of getting back to official Bell. Your guide seems to be a roundabout way to get back to stock 2.1.1 or 2.2.3 for warranty purposes, while a simple reflash would produce the same results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
absolutely true.
best chances for full repair is flash stock SBF 2.2.3 and then if you really wanna get technical, simply edit your prop file for cosmetic purposes.
NFHimself has this crazy way of flashing close to stock images but thats pretty much retarded as there's no point as it really doesnt mean any closer to stock than this crap and is fickle/easy to detect as it is if Motorola was looking for it.
thegregulator said:
Yes, but in your tutorial you're just removing root access and custom recovery. You're not changing the firmware from the phone back to 0.3.7 (Bell firmware) because there isn't a Bell SBF to flash (you're right about that). If one was already running 2.1.1 or 2.2.3 with root access, they could simply reflash their respective SBF's and it would produce the same results as your tutorial. Maybe I'm missing something from your guide, but as far as I understand, once you've flashed a different SBF, there is no way of getting back to official Bell. Your guide seems to be a roundabout way to get back to stock 2.1.1 or 2.2.3 for warranty purposes, while a simple reflash would produce the same results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right, however stock system.img(from original bell firmware, not 2.1.1 or 2.2.3) already has the right prop file and bell bloatware, comparing 2.1.1 or 2.2.3, im too lazy to look for bloatware and changing by root. this seems the easiest way for me.
other than the radio version, i dont think motorola could find out this is flashed Atrix but anyway, I am still waiting for my atrix back
ks2hot4u said:
With glad root and webtop mod on stock firmware would it be ok to just return the stock web top files and unrooted for warranty?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better do a factory reset and unroot
I work for bell. and all I have to say about this thread is that it should be closed and deleted. I actually thought these kind of guides were frowned upon...
If the phone was working 100% before you starting screwing with it, we shouldn't have to honor your warranty. Thats why ROOTING VOIDS Warranty.
If you screw up your windows load, Best buy doesn't say, heres a new pc. They say, here's a bill for the techie. We work on commission in these stores, and i hate wasting my time with some moron who shouldnt have screwed with what he couldn't fix. /rant
Its annoying to deal with people who brick their phones, and then give bs excuses as to why its not working. I usually do my best to help people, but its better to tell us the truth and have us help, then lie through your teeth that its a problem with the device.
It costs me extra hours of work to deal with DOA phones, and it costs everyone including motorola tons of $$$ for stuff that is screwed up by the consumer.
Why can't the people who don't know what theyre doing, leave the dangerous stuff to the guys who know how to fix their own problems?
Edit: the exception to this is true hardware issues. But those don't seem to come up all too often with this phone, just battery life issues.
But thats the thing if you brick your device, this guide won't help as the phone is a brick.
As for hardware issues, this is the exact reason for this thread IMHO, something useful to me as my fingerprint reader is slightliy off physically which results in the device thinking that fast swipes are taking place when they are not. now I can use this when I am ready to take my device in without being harrassed about software.
With my N1 even with the bootloader unlocked they still took in the device if it was proven to be a hardware defect (again had a problem with my power button - just my luck i guess) Doubt bell would do the same.
binary110 said:
I work for bell. and all I have to say about this thread is that it should be closed and deleted. I actually thought these kind of guides were frowned upon...
If the phone was working 100% before you starting screwing with it, we shouldn't have to honor your warranty. Thats why ROOTING VOIDS Warranty.
If you screw up your windows load, Best buy doesn't say, heres a new pc. They say, here's a bill for the techie. We work on commission in these stores, and i hate wasting my time with some moron who shouldnt have screwed with what he couldn't fix. /rant
Its annoying to deal with people who brick their phones, and then give bs excuses as to why its not working. I usually do my best to help people, but its better to tell us the truth and have us help, then lie through your teeth that its a problem with the device.
It costs me extra hours of work to deal with DOA phones, and it costs everyone including motorola tons of $$$ for stuff that is screwed up by the consumer.
Why can't the people who don't know what theyre doing, leave the dangerous stuff to the guys who know how to fix their own problems?
Edit: the exception to this is true hardware issues. But those don't seem to come up all too often with this phone, just battery life issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who would use this for anything other than a hardware issue? anyone who can follow this guide can also follow a SBF flash instruction to solve their software issues
binary110 said:
I work for bell. and all I have to say about this thread is that it should be closed and deleted. I actually thought these kind of guides were frowned upon...
If the phone was working 100% before you starting screwing with it, we shouldn't have to honor your warranty. Thats why ROOTING VOIDS Warranty.
If you screw up your windows load, Best buy doesn't say, heres a new pc. They say, here's a bill for the techie. We work on commission in these stores, and i hate wasting my time with some moron who shouldnt have screwed with what he couldn't fix. /rant
Its annoying to deal with people who brick their phones, and then give bs excuses as to why its not working. I usually do my best to help people, but its better to tell us the truth and have us help, then lie through your teeth that its a problem with the device.
It costs me extra hours of work to deal with DOA phones, and it costs everyone including motorola tons of $$$ for stuff that is screwed up by the consumer.
Why can't the people who don't know what theyre doing, leave the dangerous stuff to the guys who know how to fix their own problems?
Edit: the exception to this is true hardware issues. But those don't seem to come up all too often with this phone, just battery life issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QFT, but......we are referring to hardware isssues here, not software.......and rooting has nothing to do with that.
Sent from my Blue Myst GladiAtrix on Bell using the XDA Premium App.
I agree, its totally cool for hardware issues, but i'm thinking about the guys who have the lower half of the touch screen not working because they screwed the software up. 9/10 issues with any smartphone is software related.
binary110 said:
I agree, its totally cool for hardware issues, but i'm thinking about the guys who have the lower half of the touch screen not working because they screwed the software up. 9/10 issues with any smartphone is software related.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
since no one seems to be able to replicate this issue (to my knowledge) that would imply that it IS hardware related and not software
Rediculous
binary110 Your completly in the dark if you think this phone or any other smartphone wont have defects and hardware malfunctions.
My Atrix has wicked bad screen response when plugged into any power source with stock charger or other... im not returning mine as this is a minor issue. Although my roomates cant hold gps, drops calls constantly, misses calls and msgs for lack of signal and has constant reboots since stock with only root to obtain webtop mod.
So according to your logic he dosent deserve to have his 500+ $ phone replaced cuz it will cost motorola money and your lazy ass some commision ??
THIS IS THE WRONG FORUM FOR YOU !
binary110 Your completly in the dark if you think this phone or any other smartphone wont have defects and hardware malfunctions.
My Atrix has wicked bad screen response when plugged into any power source with stock charger or other... im not returning mine as this is a minor issue. Although my roomates cant hold gps, drops calls constantly, misses calls and msgs for lack of signal and has constant reboots since stock with only root to obtain webtop mod.
So according to your logic he dosent deserve to have his 500+ $ phone replaced cuz it will cost motorola money and your lazy ass some commision ??
THIS IS THE WRONG FORUM FOR YOU !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never said the phone was not capable of being defective. I said that when someone brings it in for an issue that they caused themselves. The phones are more often screwed up by a customer, than they are actually defective.
90% of the charger issues are from using a charger different than the motorola one that came with the phone. Especially the ones with the screen response. I noted it on my atrix as well. I also have replaced a customers phone for this.
This IS a valid reason to replace the phone.
But this is also easily noticeable BEFORE you go through the process of rooting/modding the phone. and as such, you should take it up with the place your purchased it before modding it.
Its like buying a car, ripping the engine apart right away. only to find that it runs like crap after you've ripped it apart... You probably should have done a test drive before purchasing. Do you understand what i mean?
Furthermore, your friend has a legitimate issue, I'm talking about people who brick their phones and play stupid. As well, I can tell you're a part of the generation who feels they're entitled to everything under the sun from the carrier you deal with. Yet, no cable company fixes your damn television. And especially not if you screw it up yourself.
Its not apples to apples, in the sense that the cable company doesn't subsidize your tv. but even if you got a tv as a promotion through them, they'd send you to the manufacturer. Which is what i'd prefer to do with people who do stupid stuff and want it fixed.
Don't act like my time isnt worth money just because youre a needy consumer. What i'm saying is just man up, tell us you screwed it up, and we will do everything we can help.
For you to be trolling the way that you are, its obvious that this ISNT THE FORUM FOR YOU.
Thank you.
By the way, Watch your language on the forums.
seven2099 said:
absolutely true.
best chances for full repair is flash stock SBF 2.2.3 and then if you really wanna get technical, simply edit your prop file for cosmetic purposes.
NFHimself has this crazy way of flashing close to stock images but thats pretty much retarded as there's no point as it really doesnt mean any closer to stock than this crap and is fickle/easy to detect as it is if Motorola was looking for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, what? How did I get dragged into this PMS fest?
Ridiculous.
Be nice guys... We are all Canadian, we love peace, don't we?!
In my case, my touchscreen's digitalize is 100% broken, it's either hypersensitive or non-sensitive at all... It happened on Bell Stock rom but I was trying to flash sfb to see if it could be fixed...
Unfortunately, i got my repair back today and still the same issue, i asked the bell staff to try the touchscreen and she said the phone is not boot up properly...
Oh well, after 90s, I ask her to try again, she clicked "BACK" 10 times in order to get back, and 5 times to run Bell Self-serve
well, I really unsatisfied with the result and I had to left the phone there and waiting for another 2 weeks, AGAIN!!!
I have 3yr contract with Bell so it has to waste time and money to get my phone fixed cuz its carelessness and impatience are wasting my money and time... The $30 loaner phone sucks and cannot even been changed...
well, looks like a little away from the topic but I've just out of the store...
even according to the repair menu, the bell stock sbf has been applied on and change of the part which i know its not the digitalize, the phone is still unusable...
AT&T users are lucky since they have their own stock sbf to flash when they wanna a repair but poor Bell users they have to use those tutorials like mine to do repair, OR UNLOCK THE BOOTLOADER AND I WONT ASK FOR WARRANTY
btw, maybe that's the reason why Apple is cool, they can get your iPhone replaced in maximum 60min not 60days even there is just a dust in screen
NFHimself said:
Uhm, what? How did I get dragged into this PMS fest?
Ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
see what you caused?
jk
I understand where binary was coming from but again this thread isn't for that reason. At the same time I bet we can all say we wish carriers like bell and rogers were completely full of staff like you that come with the line we will do whatever we can to help. most times reps come off as just going through the motions or looking for whatever reason to close the case.
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
If not rooted.. correct points..
If rooted.. point 1 is correct... point 2.. you would have to look at the insurance TnC
ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is an excellent thread and a much needed discussion.
If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences.
I have never had insurance, but my understanding of full coverage is that it has no restrictions. You are paying both a monthly premium plus a very high deductible for a replacement phone and you can throw it under a bus if you want to.
That seems perfectly reasonable to me...
Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering). If, however, you rooted and are having issues with the phones that are plain bugs with the stock software than you have every right to restore it and request a replacement. If you hack your phone up and screw up the boot process it is your fault and you need to take the hit. In most cases the phone can be recovered anyways, people are just too quick to assume it's "bricked" and don't know what they're doing.
If you pay extra for insurance then I suppose you have the right to use it but I still think it's not very moral, the insurance is supposed to cover accidental damage or loss, not failure due to hacking. It's kind of like when people drop their phones in toilets on purpose or they magically 'get lost' or 'stolen' so they can get a different phone.
Since these smart phones are just mini computers has anyone considered how computer manufacturers warranty their products?
If i give myself administrator access, or install a clean OS, or install linux, it doesn't void my warranty.
Now if something I did caused a hardware failure (ie overclocking the processor) than obviously the warranty FOR THAT PART is null and void. But not the warranty on the ram or hard drive.
I look at rooting and roming the same way. BUT I also know how to recover from my mistakes and will only do a restore/replacement through warranty channels if its hardware related.
If you mess around and dont know what you're doing, that's a different story.
ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
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This seems spot on to me.
"If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences."
"Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering)."
Nothing I did injured the phone or software. To back up your apps and SETTINGs correctly, you need root. I bought the phone with a data connection issue and a rebooting issue, I didn't create them. If Moto and Verizon aren't going to push software to repair these issues, I have the right to do it with a leaked file. If they don't want the return phones, release the OS's without all the verifications.
I purchased a phone that workes as advertised per MY contract and I didn't receive that.
As for the tether issue, Verizon shouldn't have the right to control how you use data plan, especially if it's capped.
It wouldn't surprise me if alot of the haters are Verizon employees. They lurked everywhere on Crackberry when I was still using my BB and running hybrids.
Unless I run software that melts the inside of my phone how is it really voiding the warrnty? Seriously, any software problem we create could be easily fixed with the properly released software.
You give me a phone that works all the time and ill stop messing with it. Verizon doesn't care about incovincing you, why would I care if I cause them trouble by tampering with my phone and then exchanging it, when they can easily release the software so I can fix it myself?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
I'm not a lawyer so take this with a grain of salt but the "voided warranty" issue can be looked at in the framework of cars. I believe there is a law that says a warranty on one part of the car can't be considered void because of some other alteration. For example if you get an aftermarket exhaust and then a week later your transmission bites the dust the manufacturer can't say that the exhaust you put on caused a problem with the transmission so they therefore must honor the warranty on the transmission. So if you root your phone, put a new ROM on it, and then your display goes out then in theory, the law should say they still have to honor the warranty because the software change didn't cause the display to fail. Anything else is on you. So, if you are dissatisfied with any aspect of the performance of the stock phone which leads you flash something that you are equally dissatisfied with then legally you have given up your right to complain even if the same problem existed with the stock phone. Morally, I might argue that if the problem existed from the onset and it continued to exist after the flash then you only tried to mitigate the original problem so in certain circumstances you might be justified in returning. If you flash something that causes FCs, or some other new problem then that is squarely on you.
The insurance question isn't a question either morally or legally. I don't believe there are any insurance policies that take into account software tinkering so you shouldn't lean on the insurance for your mistakes. I don't think insurance for bad flashes could be offered as they'd suffer from adverse selection. Adverse selection is where the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it. If the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it then the premium would end up very high.
As far as the analogy to desktop/laptop warranties, I don't think that is a good analogy. With desktop PCs the OS lives on a hard drive and the BIOS is rarely if ever flashed. With phones, the OS lives on firmware so updates are all flashed which in some cases is a process that can't be undone without a JTAG (or similar). With a desktop computer, no matter how bad you screw up your system with viruses, malware, driver corruption, etc; you can just reformat your hard drive and start over.
just my $0.02
You are right on both counts. If your device is acting up mechanically or electrically then the warranty covers, provided it is not rooted when it comes into Verizon. That's the whole key right there. Just don't mention it was rooted. Here is why. The warranty says it has to be mechanical or electrical failures. Rooting (except for overclocking) wont cause that. It can mimic it, for instance the screen cutting out or power cycles. As long as its locked and stock when it comes into the returns warehouse your ok.
As for insurance. If its Asurion, which it probably is, they will replace it. Insurance covers loss, theft, and damage. Bricking it is no different than dropping it in the lake, or a glass of tea. It's not fraud. It's what you pay for.
Now for a short soap box. Don't just brick it and call Asurion. Try to fix it, it's usually fixable.
Now for the Verizon Employee hater. Get bent. Those employees are here on their own time doing things with their equipment. Im sick of people making them out as the bad guys. They work their ass off day in and day out. Its a job. For those that say that employee should be ashamed of working for the company, get real. Its a service. The employees need a job and most try very hard to balance the policies and customer satisfaction. I don't see you quitting your job because people *****. You take it with a grain of salt, help how you can, and move on. The people that complain constantly are a very small minority that are no better than trolls. Complain when you have need to. Like the bs $2.00 convenience fee. Thanks to customer complaints it was cancelled.
I'll take my soap box and go now. Just keep in mind, working for a company, doesn't make one bad.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
I blame Motorola for letting us soak test for them. So if people want to return the devices that arr rooted then go for it. Motor reflashes everything anyhow
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?
junksecret said:
I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?
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I agree. If you have the where-with-all to hose your phone by modding, you likely have the ability to fix it with the right tools being provided. Those that hack will hack. Those that don't won't. By providing the tools to restore it does not open the door to more folks hacking their phones and likely will reduce the number of units going back, IMHO.
Also -- I see no reason why a software hack should void a HARDWARE warranty. Sure -- support should no longer be provided for "soft" issues, but if there is a HARDWARE issue, i.e. battery won't hold a charge or display goes out, etc., a ROOT or ROM should not be reason for denying the required warranty service. Again -- IMHO.
I think if you hard brick your phone you should eat it. Your fault.
I've had 3 phones with locked bootloaders (and fixed others) and I've always recovered from a brick.
If you brick your phone because you tried to flash something or RSD with a low battery - your fault.
Verizon sent me a Razr over my Bionic due to me complaining about my data issues. I restored it (system/kernel) and sent it back. Phone is in flawless condition. I compare it to jaywalking or pirating a song/movie. Moral decision.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?
Bwangster12 said:
I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?
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It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?
UrbanBounca said:
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?
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She definitely str8 up said "it looks like your phone has been rooted" after she did her "diagnostics" when calling *611. SO... the tool exists.
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.
Bwangster12 said:
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.
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Well, that's your option. Did you restore it? Whether the representative can "detect" root or not, when they see a completely stock phone in retail, they'll probably replace it.
That said, you've got me curious as to whether Verizon can actually detect root over the phone. The research has started. . .
Edit: After about five minutes, it's apparently possible via a Verizon Remote Diagnostics app that they send out with updates. I definitely don't agree with it, and I'm glad I can say that with custom ROM's, that garbage is removed.
http://phandroid.com/2012/03/20/droid-charge-fp1-update-brings-verizon-remote-diagnostics-bug-fixes/
Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
MicroMod777 said:
Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
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Yeah, she said to me over the phone, after saying she was going to run diagnostics... "you've got 40% memory available, etc etc."
I am running a custom rom though. I'm using Xdabbeb's 24A. Could that tool not been removed or hidden?
Just turn off radios when calling. Then say, "I don't know whats wrong... I have 4 bars of 4G"
Need a replacement for my Moto X. Called them up and the guy could tell my phone was rooted but said he would ship out regardless. 5 days later no confirmation of it being shipped and it hadn't arrived so I gave them a call. It said your certified replacement device has been denied because you are rooted.
So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
njstein said:
So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.
It really is @UrbanBounca, but they'd probably tell you it's hidden in the agreement we all signed or the classic "don't like it, don't use our service". Only the big boys can get away with these kind of shenanigans.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I bought my phone outright for 399 or 499, I forget. I have a month to month contract on the UDP plan. Its my frigging phone. I'll do what I want with it. I understand when I root, I loose the warranty. I understand that if I'm tethering, I could get my wrist slapped.
Why call VZW for anything?
If your worried, don't root. If not, suck it up buttercups!!
I went thru the same thing with my Dodge Truck. I came to the conclusion that I am my own warranty station, plain and simple.
If your gonna do stuff to YOUR possessions, that might void a warranty, its not the manufactures fault, its yours, but YOU have the choice.
Of course VZW can see you phone, then they give all that info to the NSA for tax breaks
After a bit more research, I've found that they can only run diagnostics if (a) you're on ICS or above and (b) you have the MyVerizon app installed.
I don't have the MyVerizon app, and after hearing this, I won't be installing it.
Why would anyone use MyVerizon? It is certainly not NEEDED for anything productive.
Thanks Devs, from my LG G2
It'd definitely the my Verizon app. Even if you block superuser access to it they can still detect it. The customer service reps also make you install it when going through the process. I'm leaving Verizon next month after my last line is free from contract. 3 lines with unlimited data going up on eBay.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol
MicroMod777 said:
Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol
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The women I got kept saying to do a "factory reset" because if she put in the order for a CLNR that I would be charged if I was rooted. After I got off the call, I got the impression she was telling me to unroot my phone, restore to stock and then call back to place the order.
I had a custom rom, but it was stock based. I believe I did have the MyVerizon app on there.
I just rooted my 24A G2 and the moment I rebooted, I got a notification popup saying 'You have modified the system software' or something like that. So it is phoning home (no pun intended) and tripping a flag somewhere. I'm sure no one is looking at it unless you call, so before you call, flash back to 100% stock.
UrbanBounca said:
I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.
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It's not an invasion of privacy. They are protecting themselves from all of the warranty fraud that happens when people who complain about their phones try to return them under warranty.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
When it comes to having to get a new phone, Verizon will not give you one if you have altered the phone. However, let's say your headphone jack stopped working and you need to send it in to get it repaired. They HAVE to fix your phone, regardless if it's rooted or not. Why? Because the only way they can't do warranty repairs with your phone being rooted, is because they HAVE to prove that rooting directly caused the issue with the phone. This is per the Magnusson-Moss Act Chapter 50 of United States Code Section 2304, which states:
Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance). (d) Remedy without charge For purposes of this section and of section 2302© of this
title, the term "without charge" means that the warrantor may not assess the consumer for any costs the warrantor or his representatives incur in connection with the required remedy of a warranted consumer product. An obligation under subsection (a)(1)(A) of this section to remedy without charge does not necessarily require the warrantor to compensate the consumer for incidental expenses; however, if any incidental expenses are incurred because the remedy is not made within a reasonable time or
because the warrantor imposed an unreasonable duty upon the consumer as a condition of securing remedy, then the consumer shall be entitled to recover reasonable incidental expenses which are so incurred in any action against the warrantor.
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So how does that mean my warranty isn't voided? If you go out and buy a brand new G2, you root it and have no issues. No problems. Then a 6 weeks later, you plug in your headphones and all of a sudden, no sound is coming out of your head phones. Or the sound coming out of your speaker is crackling. Or your SIM/SD card door breaks off. Just because you rooted your phone, LG still has to honor the 1 year warranty pertaining to THOSE problems. They will STILL have to fix your headphone jack, THEY STILL have to install a new speaker and STILL have to give you a new SIM/SD card door.
Reference;
http://www.droidrzr.com/index.php/t...-users-may-have-about-rooting-and-warranties/