OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
If not rooted.. correct points..
If rooted.. point 1 is correct... point 2.. you would have to look at the insurance TnC
ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is an excellent thread and a much needed discussion.
If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences.
I have never had insurance, but my understanding of full coverage is that it has no restrictions. You are paying both a monthly premium plus a very high deductible for a replacement phone and you can throw it under a bus if you want to.
That seems perfectly reasonable to me...
Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering). If, however, you rooted and are having issues with the phones that are plain bugs with the stock software than you have every right to restore it and request a replacement. If you hack your phone up and screw up the boot process it is your fault and you need to take the hit. In most cases the phone can be recovered anyways, people are just too quick to assume it's "bricked" and don't know what they're doing.
If you pay extra for insurance then I suppose you have the right to use it but I still think it's not very moral, the insurance is supposed to cover accidental damage or loss, not failure due to hacking. It's kind of like when people drop their phones in toilets on purpose or they magically 'get lost' or 'stolen' so they can get a different phone.
Since these smart phones are just mini computers has anyone considered how computer manufacturers warranty their products?
If i give myself administrator access, or install a clean OS, or install linux, it doesn't void my warranty.
Now if something I did caused a hardware failure (ie overclocking the processor) than obviously the warranty FOR THAT PART is null and void. But not the warranty on the ram or hard drive.
I look at rooting and roming the same way. BUT I also know how to recover from my mistakes and will only do a restore/replacement through warranty channels if its hardware related.
If you mess around and dont know what you're doing, that's a different story.
ddggttff3 said:
OK, I have seen lots of threads about people returning or replacing rooted phones, and getting literally RAGED at by this community, so I am personally wondering, what is seen as wrong as right? I am not trying to start a post war, I am just honestly wondering... here is what it seems to be from what I have read.
If Not Rooted
*warranty covers failure, but not drops/spills etc.
*Covers spills/drops only if you pay extra for insurance, and u replace through insurance.
IF ROOTED/MODDED in any way
*Normal WARRANTY VOID FROM EVERYTHING
*IF you have insurance, AND you go through INSURANCE for replacement and pay, then it is OK as you pay for the service.
Correct here or not?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This seems spot on to me.
"If you root and flash anything to your phone at all, you have voided your warranty and should take responsibility for the consequences."
"Here's the deal, you should not expect your manufacturer or service provider to replace the phone you ****ed up by tinkering with it, this is what many people have done and it's called fraud, it's also a major reason why OEMs are starting to lock them down tight (along with people getting free tethering)."
Nothing I did injured the phone or software. To back up your apps and SETTINGs correctly, you need root. I bought the phone with a data connection issue and a rebooting issue, I didn't create them. If Moto and Verizon aren't going to push software to repair these issues, I have the right to do it with a leaked file. If they don't want the return phones, release the OS's without all the verifications.
I purchased a phone that workes as advertised per MY contract and I didn't receive that.
As for the tether issue, Verizon shouldn't have the right to control how you use data plan, especially if it's capped.
It wouldn't surprise me if alot of the haters are Verizon employees. They lurked everywhere on Crackberry when I was still using my BB and running hybrids.
Unless I run software that melts the inside of my phone how is it really voiding the warrnty? Seriously, any software problem we create could be easily fixed with the properly released software.
You give me a phone that works all the time and ill stop messing with it. Verizon doesn't care about incovincing you, why would I care if I cause them trouble by tampering with my phone and then exchanging it, when they can easily release the software so I can fix it myself?
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using XDA App
I'm not a lawyer so take this with a grain of salt but the "voided warranty" issue can be looked at in the framework of cars. I believe there is a law that says a warranty on one part of the car can't be considered void because of some other alteration. For example if you get an aftermarket exhaust and then a week later your transmission bites the dust the manufacturer can't say that the exhaust you put on caused a problem with the transmission so they therefore must honor the warranty on the transmission. So if you root your phone, put a new ROM on it, and then your display goes out then in theory, the law should say they still have to honor the warranty because the software change didn't cause the display to fail. Anything else is on you. So, if you are dissatisfied with any aspect of the performance of the stock phone which leads you flash something that you are equally dissatisfied with then legally you have given up your right to complain even if the same problem existed with the stock phone. Morally, I might argue that if the problem existed from the onset and it continued to exist after the flash then you only tried to mitigate the original problem so in certain circumstances you might be justified in returning. If you flash something that causes FCs, or some other new problem then that is squarely on you.
The insurance question isn't a question either morally or legally. I don't believe there are any insurance policies that take into account software tinkering so you shouldn't lean on the insurance for your mistakes. I don't think insurance for bad flashes could be offered as they'd suffer from adverse selection. Adverse selection is where the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it. If the only people that want to buy insurance are the ones that will almost certainly use it then the premium would end up very high.
As far as the analogy to desktop/laptop warranties, I don't think that is a good analogy. With desktop PCs the OS lives on a hard drive and the BIOS is rarely if ever flashed. With phones, the OS lives on firmware so updates are all flashed which in some cases is a process that can't be undone without a JTAG (or similar). With a desktop computer, no matter how bad you screw up your system with viruses, malware, driver corruption, etc; you can just reformat your hard drive and start over.
just my $0.02
You are right on both counts. If your device is acting up mechanically or electrically then the warranty covers, provided it is not rooted when it comes into Verizon. That's the whole key right there. Just don't mention it was rooted. Here is why. The warranty says it has to be mechanical or electrical failures. Rooting (except for overclocking) wont cause that. It can mimic it, for instance the screen cutting out or power cycles. As long as its locked and stock when it comes into the returns warehouse your ok.
As for insurance. If its Asurion, which it probably is, they will replace it. Insurance covers loss, theft, and damage. Bricking it is no different than dropping it in the lake, or a glass of tea. It's not fraud. It's what you pay for.
Now for a short soap box. Don't just brick it and call Asurion. Try to fix it, it's usually fixable.
Now for the Verizon Employee hater. Get bent. Those employees are here on their own time doing things with their equipment. Im sick of people making them out as the bad guys. They work their ass off day in and day out. Its a job. For those that say that employee should be ashamed of working for the company, get real. Its a service. The employees need a job and most try very hard to balance the policies and customer satisfaction. I don't see you quitting your job because people *****. You take it with a grain of salt, help how you can, and move on. The people that complain constantly are a very small minority that are no better than trolls. Complain when you have need to. Like the bs $2.00 convenience fee. Thanks to customer complaints it was cancelled.
I'll take my soap box and go now. Just keep in mind, working for a company, doesn't make one bad.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
I blame Motorola for letting us soak test for them. So if people want to return the devices that arr rooted then go for it. Motor reflashes everything anyhow
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?
junksecret said:
I'm surprised that the manufacturers don't just put put up a site for each phone. You go, read what keys get you in recovery, Fast Boot, etc., plug your phone in via USB and flash a new image. The best devs here never (super rare) truly "Brick" their phones. I'm sure moto could give us that technology, I don't see why they don't...I bet they would have a lot less refurbs required.
Can somebody 'splain it to me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. If you have the where-with-all to hose your phone by modding, you likely have the ability to fix it with the right tools being provided. Those that hack will hack. Those that don't won't. By providing the tools to restore it does not open the door to more folks hacking their phones and likely will reduce the number of units going back, IMHO.
Also -- I see no reason why a software hack should void a HARDWARE warranty. Sure -- support should no longer be provided for "soft" issues, but if there is a HARDWARE issue, i.e. battery won't hold a charge or display goes out, etc., a ROOT or ROM should not be reason for denying the required warranty service. Again -- IMHO.
I think if you hard brick your phone you should eat it. Your fault.
I've had 3 phones with locked bootloaders (and fixed others) and I've always recovered from a brick.
If you brick your phone because you tried to flash something or RSD with a low battery - your fault.
Verizon sent me a Razr over my Bionic due to me complaining about my data issues. I restored it (system/kernel) and sent it back. Phone is in flawless condition. I compare it to jaywalking or pirating a song/movie. Moral decision.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Related
One lesson this OTA fiasco has taught me, is that as careful as we are, there is no way to put our phone back to the way they were when we bought them once we start flashing:
The only people that I've seen reporting success on the OTA update are the ones who never flashed. Thanks to people like designgears, workarounds have been provided, but the fact remains: once you flash, there's no going back (for now). Which brings me to my concern: if the OTA is failing because of this currently unidentified difference, then AT&T, Samsung, etc. can certainly tell whether or not you've screwed with your phone if you send it in for repair, even if you flash back to stock. And they could claim this voids the warranty. It seems like it would be worthwhile for us to understand why the patch is failing and remove this problem in future 3rdparty ROMS, just in case the return/repair dept. starts looking for this inconsistency.
It's not really something to be concerned over.
I really doubt Samsung is going to waste time checking the phones that get sent in to them. I sent Microsoft a melted Xbox 360, and they replaced it for free under the warranty.
MikeyMike01 said:
It's not really something to be concerned over.
I really doubt Samsung is going to waste time checking the phones that get sent in to them. I sent Microsoft a melted Xbox 360, and they replaced it for free under the warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. And to just double confirm this- I have actually spoke to a couple techs at Samsung who do the RMA stuff, and it does not void our warranty to flash THEIR OFFICIAL firmwares. All they do anyway when they get the device is immediately flash back to stock firmware themselves. They dont have time to "investigate" each RMA. The techs dont get paid enough and the turn around time woudl be a LOT long if this was the case.
It's a breach when we start flashing cooked stuff on there, but as long as the problem remains with factory based ROM there isn't a problem. It's only void if say you jack it up and cant get back to a "factory load" to verify the problem is actually hardware based.
Same thing with HTC devices too so just FYI. Oh and AT&T & Tmobile reps will also confirm this too. Your best bet though when calling in warranty is to NOT SAY you were dorking with your phone and messing with Cooked ROMS.
Hi,
I decided to make my 1st post. I've been visiting XDA for some time and flashed several ROM's. I want to say thank you for everyone responsible for making XDA what it is today.
My question is regarding AT&T & Custom ROM. I currently work for AT&T and use a captivate provided by the company. I have flashed several i9000 ROM's and they're absolutely great. My concern is that AT&T can tell that I have a custom ROM/Modem on the network. I understand that they can tell on the device itself but how about the network. I'm guessing if I'm using the i9000 ROM it would be visible to the engineers.
Thank you in advance for your reply
I also work for AT&T. Without physically looking at the phone, I believe the only way they could tell would be if the software imei (*#06#) does not match the phone's imei (under battery) - since the software imei is transmitted to the network. This is why if you change sims, the network still knows what phone you are using.
Pardon me for asking the obvious, but if both of you work for AT$T, can't you get us some info on the 2.2 update? Had to ask.
LOL.. depends on where they work.
If they both work at a Retail outlet selling phones? Then uh no.
Miami_Son said:
Pardon me for asking the obvious, but if both of you work for AT$T, can't you get us some info on the 2.2 update? Had to ask.[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
avgjoegeek said:
LOL.. depends on where they work.
If they both work at a Retail outlet selling phones? Then uh no.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not sell the phones and do not work at a retail location. I do however support the stores in making sure all the reps know the products.
[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.[/QUOTE]
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10
alaimar said:
I do not sell the phones and do not work at a retail location. I do however support the stores in making sure all the reps know the products.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you would know - Thanks for the update. If AT&T would put out little updates like this one - many a user would be happy.
Go figure with twitter, facebook, myspace, email, txting, telephone, and hell even pen and paper - we still fail at one basic thing COMMUNICATION.
c0ldburn3r said:
[/QUOTE
As of 2 weeks ago AT&T did not have the software ready for testing. Nothing can happen until Samsung completes it and send it to at&t's lab for testing. I can assure you at&t wants it out as much as you do to be competitive in the android market. Besides who cares about the official version with all the awesome ROM's on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10[/QUOTE]
I agree with the flashing; however in regards to Apple core AT&T is looking at every possible way to stop sucking on it. As you know the exclusivity is expiring and they're doing everything possible to adjust. BB Torch and WP7 is a perfect example of that. US market is behind simply due to all the limitations every carrier wants to implement on every device and make sure that it's loaded with bloatware.
alaimar said:
Seems a bit off that the US market is so far behind plus I highly doubt ATT wants to be competitive since they are just sucking on that Apple core. Not all users want to flash or even know how to. Personally I believe the phone should have launched with Froyo but at least we aren't waiting for Eclair like the x10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with the flashing; however in regards to Apple core AT&T is looking at every possible way to stop sucking on it. As you know the exclusivity is expiring and they're doing everything possible to adjust. BB Torch and WP7 is a perfect example of that. US market is behind simply due to all the limitations every carrier wants to implement on every device and make sure that it's loaded with bloatware.[/QUOTE]
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
Jofaba said:
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
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Click to collapse
Wireless carriers are not fans of customization as it usaualy removes their bloatware and enables features that they like to charge for ( wireless AP). From the manufacturers perspective using custom rom's can result in hardware damage. Imagine if it didn't how many bricked phones would be going back. Manufacturer always sets the warranty policy carrier's just enforce it.
I think att will ditch the captivate all together. I kinda dont even think we will see an official froyo.
what could be holding it back?
this is just my opinion
Krooked22 said:
I think att will ditch the captivate all together. I kinda dont even think we will see an official froyo.
what could be holding it back?
this is just my opinion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T has no choice when it comes to Android. Ralph's made it publicly known that he doesn't like Android at all. With market share growing fast they are definitely working on beefing up their Android lineup ASAP
alaimar said:
Wireless carriers are not fans of customization as it usaualy removes their bloatware and enables features that they like to charge for ( wireless AP). From the manufacturers perspective using custom rom's can result in hardware damage. Imagine if it didn't how many bricked phones would be going back. Manufacturer always sets the warranty policy carrier's just enforce it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not trying to be rude but I asked about the manufacturer not the carrier. I fully understand the carrier's stance. That'd be like if I called Time Warner and *****ed to them about having problems getting online and was using Ubuntu, which they didn't support or even understand.
I'm saying Samsung. Why would they care? Unless they could prove that your customization caused the problem, how can they instantly void your warranty simply by using different software?
i would guess that overclocking might be a reason. aslo, even though bricking your phone is something that they can (most likely)reflash-stock and resell refurb, because retail reps will warratny your phone not knowing what the cause was ( you know that no one walks into store admitting they are to blame for phone issue so they assume it's faulty and process warranty to keep you happy
Jofaba said:
I'm not trying to be rude but I asked about the manufacturer not the carrier. I fully understand the carrier's stance. That'd be like if I called Time Warner and *****ed to them about having problems getting online and was using Ubuntu, which they didn't support or even understand.
I'm saying Samsung. Why would they care? Unless they could prove that your customization caused the problem, how can they instantly void your warranty simply by using different software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for one you didn't specify that you are referring to the manufacturer. You're comparing apple to oranges. At&t handles manufacturers warranty themselves and time Warner has nothing to do with your hardware ; -) You also answered your own question, they really have no way of proving it, therefore they created a legal document that gives them the right to screw you : -)
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Jofaba said:
Off topic but only slightly: why exactly does ram flashing void hardware warranties? I wouldn't void my video card's hardware warranty for using Ubuntu instead of Windows. I understand they can't support problems arrising from using the software the hardware wasn't designed for, but you'd think flashing back to stock would put you back into warranty coverage. I don't understand why custom software is so vilified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This isn't only software in a sense, you are flashing a chip...that's why they call it ROM flashing. Now if you were to flash your BIOS chip, I'm sure your motherboard manufacturer wouldn't hand out a refund either.
Another point to tackle, custom software is not frowned upon by Google(GPL), but when a bunch of kids come in complaining why their AT&T phones won't turn on because they don't know what flashing, ROMs and how video cards INTERFACE with operating systems the carrier may have issues.
They instantly void your warranty because they are trained to troubleshoot their hardware with approved software, not with your software which can trickle down and affect everything about the phone leading to a myriad of issues.
It's not what you know, it's what you can prove and even then that's a two sided coin and left up to the manufacturer to say you aren't covered under the warranty. But if you're slick and can seep through the cracks make a backup of your "default" OS... ROM whatever and save it for that very rainy day when you need it.
It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
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Click to collapse
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
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Click to collapse
I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.
So i have been having issues with my device. The device will shut off, sometimes not charge properly and the device will die and i will have to unplug the battery and plug it back in to power cycle the device and for it to register a charge. So i decided to call and explain this to the "tech" the moment i mentioned that i opened the device and did this they said i had "voided" my warranty and i would have to contact Asus.
Yeah. I voided my warranty by popped open the back and unplugged the battery. This is how i was treated. Also.. I then request a supervisor who then states the same thing.. they give me a "mercy" repair and then proceed to setup a repair, but they have "noted" that i have voided my warranty by "messing with the internal components, and that the back was not made to be opened." That if they verify that i have "messed with this" i will be charged the full amount for the replacement device.
Seriously? I am fuming right now. they pretty much made me feel like i had broken a law by opening up their PLASTIC device. the back is held on by clips.. no screws, warranty stick, or any other type of method of removal. I was told that the "normal" consumer would never do that... and that i definitely voided my warranty.. I am so peeved right now i could hit something. Seriously?!
Good job Google. Your first major device made by "you" and this is how you treat your customer. Thank god i'm an Apple user and i was an ex-Applecare rep and RULE 1, you never accuse the customer of doing anything. You never make them feel like some inept POS because you popped off a battery cover. WOW. Last Google product i buy. Seriously. I have never had a customer experience where i was berated on the phone as some sort of villain.. by 2 "techs" Not only that.. the "supervisor" said .."oh sir, it's not that easy to pop the back off.. you really have to get IN THERE"
Peeved. XDA has anyone been treated like that by them? I thought the Nexus line was for the "tech savy" you know the ones that can root, unlock, and develop.. yet i was treated like a criminal for doing some basic trouble shooting. I told the tech on the phone.. what if i had bought this 2nd hand and couldn't turn it on.. the SERIAL NUMBER IS ON THE INSIDE LID.. she just said.. "well i understand that.. but you still voided your warranty.."
WOW.
google should let people play as long as they dont short it out.
The Afroman said:
So i have been having issues with my device. The device will shut off, sometimes not charge properly and the device will die and i will have to unplug the battery and plug it back in to power cycle the device and for it to register a charge. So i decided to call and explain this to the "tech" the moment i mentioned that i opened the device and did this they said i had "voided" my warranty and i would have to contact Asus.
Yeah. I voided my warranty by popped open the back and unplugged the battery. This is how i was treated. Also.. I then request a supervisor who then states the same thing.. they give me a "mercy" repair and then proceed to setup a repair, but they have "noted" that i have voided my warranty by "messing with the internal components, and that the back was not made to be opened." That if they verify that i have "messed with this" i will be charged the full amount for the replacement device.
Seriously? I am fuming right now. they pretty much made me feel like i had broken a law by opening up their PLASTIC device. the back is held on by clips.. no screws, warranty stick, or any other type of method of removal. I was told that the "normal" consumer would never do that... and that i definitely voided my warranty.. I am so peeved right now i could hit something. Seriously?!
Good job Google. Your first major device made by "you" and this is how you treat your customer. Thank god i'm an Apple user and i was an ex-Applecare rep and RULE 1, you never accuse the customer of doing anything. You never make them feel like some inept POS because you popped off a battery cover. WOW. Last Google product i buy. Seriously. I have never had a customer experience where i was berated on the phone as some sort of villain.. by 2 "techs" Not only that.. the "supervisor" said .."oh sir, it's not that easy to pop the back off.. you really have to get IN THERE"
Peeved. XDA has anyone been treated like that by them? I thought the Nexus line was for the "tech savy" you know the ones that can root, unlock, and develop.. yet i was treated like a criminal for doing some basic trouble shooting. I told the tech on the phone.. what if i had bought this 2nd hand and couldn't turn it on.. the SERIAL NUMBER IS ON THE INSIDE LID.. she just said.. "well i understand that.. but you still voided your warranty.."
WOW.
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Click to collapse
Is there any documentation that came bundled with your device that clearly provides instructions for how to remove the back cover and how to disconnect the battery? does the device even have a battery that is user removable and replaceable ?
no to both and you knew that... you had to search for information online to perform that and you still did it knowing full well that wasn't allowed.
the moment your device showed any signs of issues you should have contacted Google to get an RMA
Warranty is present on our devices with rules in place. you broke the rules and then admitted to it to a tech and expect something different?
You are not supposed to open the cover plain and simple, if you expect the company that sold it to you to honor the warranty which means they trust you haven't touched anything inside then you leave it alone and always contact them for service. that's your complete circle..
Open your device and you lose that ability because now it is assumed A. you have touched or modified something, B. you know what you are doing since you have opened the device up.
They have no idea what you have done, you expect them to just take your word for it? I'd love to see that fly at the dealership on your new car... "Yea the engine blew, it was making a ticking sound but before notifying you guys I went ahead and took the engine cover off and looked around and also changed a few things but i still have my warranty right? kthnxbai
The Nexus line has nothing to do with being for people that are tech savy... thats just the general consensus of people that choose ANDROID over IOS.
People buy the Nexus line because they want the full unmodified Google experience AND the latest OS updates from Google plain and simple.
Either play by their rules and leave the device alone and if it has issues notify them, get an RMA and send it back that's what they are there for. not to clean up the mess that happens after you touched the device in a way you weren't supposed to.
Even if you didn't do anything other than open the cover, how are they supposed to know? just trust you? :laugh:
Why did they accuse you? because like an idiot you just told them straight up yes I opened the device even though I know i'm not supposed to.
Lucky they gave you the mercy repair....
Well i feel for you brother, it's not like you broke the device yourself...that said it's pretty clear the back cover is not designed to be removed by consumers, and you really should have known that disconnecting the battery could technically void your warranty.
While some companies may be lenient with their warranty policies, you certainly shouldn't expect it; so to admit.that you played around with the internals was a little naive i'm afraid. I remember hearing a story about techs at one company being instructed to look for rooted phones that had been sent in so that the warranty could be voided (because technically rooting was a breach of conditions).
But look, you might get lucky and they won't charge you if the fault is obviously not your fault. I hope it works out for you.
I'd have been more surprised if they did NOT void the warranty when you told them that. Its pretty common sense that you should not tell techs that you have opened a device.
The Afroman said:
Peeved. XDA has anyone been treated like that by them? I thought the Nexus line was for the "tech savy" you know the ones that can root, unlock, and develop.. yet i was treated like a criminal for doing some basic trouble shooting.
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Sounds to me like you were treated as someone who voided his warranty. Which is exactly what you did. Sounds fair to me.
It's your responsibility to know what voids the warranty, and you're trying to make others suffer for your mistake.
And the tech savvy people know that when they open up and mess with their devices, they're on their own.
FYI, the Nexus 7 back cover is not made to be just popped off like many phone back covers so you probably damaged something as well.
Taking the back off the N7 does not void the warranty. However, I think there is a "VOID" sticker on one of the screws that keep the battery connected to the device that if removed, this DOES void the warranty. I would look, but I can't pop the back off my N7 because I just clipped my fingernails, haha. But I have taken off the back of my previous N7s various times and sent them all back with out any problems. I just haven't tampered with the stickers that say "VOID" on them.
Obvious warranty voiding action is obvious.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
They made it a sealed back for a reason they don't want people messing and you have silly to do it. Its like moaning you have bricked your nexus and moaning they won't give you a new one. Same as in game shops the minute you take it out the cellophane its none-returnable. You should of phoned them straight away when you noticed the problem.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Never tell any company you tried to fix some thing your self
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Look. Seriously I understand. I get it. If i damaged the device, the warranty should be voided. But i didn't. Second. Most devices, that do NOT want you in the back would..
A.) Not make the back held on by snaps, that are super easy to remove (please don't tell me it's hard or difficult to remove because it's not) The devices that have tamper proof backs have screws with warranty voiding measures like a sticker that says (VOID WARRANTY) and a screw under it.. Or they would have a security Torx screw.. or something! Go check your devices..
B.) I have spent hours looking and reading the warranty manual and NOTHING in there says you can't remove the battery back. Have anyof you owned a Galaxy S (the original) the battery back snaps on the exact same way. you have to pop it off with snaps all around the edge. Also.. nothing inside the back says "HEY if you remove this you void your warrenty!"
C.) I get the battery is not user replaceable.. sort of.. it's one plug and you pop it out.. but i think the battery is held with glue so i wouldn't remove it.. but come on guys i'm seriously not trying to be a ****, i know if i had opened something that said "DONT OPEN" or there was a screw on back i wouldn't have said anything when i called.. but this is silly.. the moment i mentioned i popped the back off, they threw up there hands and ignored the fact that the device was having issues prior..
D.) In the Warranty paper work it says "the Product has been tampered with, repaired and/or modified by non-authorized personnal:" So opening the back that is easy to open but has no TAMPER PROOF anything voids your warranty.. in that sentence i don't think i did ANY OF IT. I didn't take it apart, unscrew, replace parts, etc.. all i did was open to unplug and plug battery back in.. if thats tampering.. then we ALL have void our warranties on MANY devices as i'm sure that wording is used on MANY devices warranties.
Seriously though I know when i have been beaten. I can admit defeat but the way i was treated on the phone was awful. I can't understand how that is good customer service. Adult conversation here.
And you blame Google for this.....
If your device was cutting out and not charging then why didn't you get it repaired or replaced under warranty instead of messing about with the internals? Clearly you must have done more than just opening the back cover, someone who goes that far will meddle with the battery and connectors which definitely VOIDS your warranty. It's not the same as opening the back cover of a Galaxy phone that has a user replaceable battery.... this doesn't
Seriously the more people like you move back to Apple the better these forums would get. Good luck
Xda seems full of assholes today.. (not you op!)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Frostfree said:
And you blame Google for this.....
If your device was cutting out and not charging then why didn't you get it repaired or replaced under warranty instead of messing about with the internals? Clearly you must have done more than just opening the back cover, someone who goes that far will meddle with the battery and connectors which definitely VOIDS your warranty. It's not the same as opening the back cover of a Galaxy phone that has a user replaceable battery.... this doesn't
Seriously the more people like you move back to Apple the better these forums would get. Good luck
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Click to collapse
The battery connection problem is very common many people have fixed it the way he tried the only mistake he made is telling them about it
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Frostfree said:
And you blame Google for this.....
If your device was cutting out and not charging then why didn't you get it repaired or replaced under warranty instead of messing about with the internals? Clearly you must have done more than just opening the back cover, someone who goes that far will meddle with the battery and connectors which definitely VOIDS your warranty.
Seriously the more people like you move back to Apple the better these forums would get. Good luck
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Click to collapse
Wow. More people like you make Google users seem elitist. Yes i did unplug the battery you know that thing we as electronic users have been doing for YEARS. it was the only way to get it to turn back on.. is that too difficult for you? I like how you probably have never read the warranty insert but are already siding with a company of their "meaning" of the rules.
I guess everyone here would be ok if you mentioned resetting the batteries in your remote control for your TV and they said. OH well you voided the warranty..?
rcarnes911 said:
The battery connection problem is very common many people have fixed it the way he tried the only mistake he made is telling them about it
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Thanks. Thank you. Someone understands.. I admit i guess it was my fault for mentioning.. it. Now my account is "has been noted" So now i will probably not send it in for repair, because they seem to "maybe" want to charge me full price which BTW is 200 for an 8GB they don't even have it set to 150 as it should be for a device that has been replaced pricewise for the 16GB.
wow the back of the nexus is not like any phone back. there is a groove or a notch to remove phone backs. Thats like saying the ipod back is removable since its not screwed down. I can remove an ipod back almost as easy as taking off the nexus 7's back but I also know I'm not supposed to. It sucks what they told you but crying foul is almost as bad. Luckily they are going to help you anyway
The Afroman said:
Wow. More people like you make Google users seem elitist. Yes i did unplug the battery you know that thing we as electronic users have been doing for YEARS
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Click to collapse
Nonsense, just hold the power button for 10-15 seconds.
khaytsus said:
Nonsense, just hold the power button for 10-15 seconds.
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Click to collapse
Tried. Multiple times. Nothing.. the screen would stay black. battery wouldn't charge. i had to unplug battery and plug back in.. to get the charger to work. even bought 2 3rd party chargers that work for nexus to get it to respond. nothing. battery had to be unplugged and plugged back in. only way to get my device to work. I guess i shouldn't have said that and lied. *sigh*
Sorry to hear this man, I'm following this thread pretty closely. I am getting a N7 here next week (Christmas, I hope), so trying to see what others issues with it are. I hope this works out for you
I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?
Bwangster12 said:
I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?
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Click to collapse
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?
UrbanBounca said:
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?
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Click to collapse
She definitely str8 up said "it looks like your phone has been rooted" after she did her "diagnostics" when calling *611. SO... the tool exists.
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.
Bwangster12 said:
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.
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Click to collapse
Well, that's your option. Did you restore it? Whether the representative can "detect" root or not, when they see a completely stock phone in retail, they'll probably replace it.
That said, you've got me curious as to whether Verizon can actually detect root over the phone. The research has started. . .
Edit: After about five minutes, it's apparently possible via a Verizon Remote Diagnostics app that they send out with updates. I definitely don't agree with it, and I'm glad I can say that with custom ROM's, that garbage is removed.
http://phandroid.com/2012/03/20/droid-charge-fp1-update-brings-verizon-remote-diagnostics-bug-fixes/
Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
MicroMod777 said:
Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Yeah, she said to me over the phone, after saying she was going to run diagnostics... "you've got 40% memory available, etc etc."
I am running a custom rom though. I'm using Xdabbeb's 24A. Could that tool not been removed or hidden?
Just turn off radios when calling. Then say, "I don't know whats wrong... I have 4 bars of 4G"
Need a replacement for my Moto X. Called them up and the guy could tell my phone was rooted but said he would ship out regardless. 5 days later no confirmation of it being shipped and it hadn't arrived so I gave them a call. It said your certified replacement device has been denied because you are rooted.
So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
njstein said:
So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.
It really is @UrbanBounca, but they'd probably tell you it's hidden in the agreement we all signed or the classic "don't like it, don't use our service". Only the big boys can get away with these kind of shenanigans.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I bought my phone outright for 399 or 499, I forget. I have a month to month contract on the UDP plan. Its my frigging phone. I'll do what I want with it. I understand when I root, I loose the warranty. I understand that if I'm tethering, I could get my wrist slapped.
Why call VZW for anything?
If your worried, don't root. If not, suck it up buttercups!!
I went thru the same thing with my Dodge Truck. I came to the conclusion that I am my own warranty station, plain and simple.
If your gonna do stuff to YOUR possessions, that might void a warranty, its not the manufactures fault, its yours, but YOU have the choice.
Of course VZW can see you phone, then they give all that info to the NSA for tax breaks
After a bit more research, I've found that they can only run diagnostics if (a) you're on ICS or above and (b) you have the MyVerizon app installed.
I don't have the MyVerizon app, and after hearing this, I won't be installing it.
Why would anyone use MyVerizon? It is certainly not NEEDED for anything productive.
Thanks Devs, from my LG G2
It'd definitely the my Verizon app. Even if you block superuser access to it they can still detect it. The customer service reps also make you install it when going through the process. I'm leaving Verizon next month after my last line is free from contract. 3 lines with unlimited data going up on eBay.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol
MicroMod777 said:
Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol
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The women I got kept saying to do a "factory reset" because if she put in the order for a CLNR that I would be charged if I was rooted. After I got off the call, I got the impression she was telling me to unroot my phone, restore to stock and then call back to place the order.
I had a custom rom, but it was stock based. I believe I did have the MyVerizon app on there.
I just rooted my 24A G2 and the moment I rebooted, I got a notification popup saying 'You have modified the system software' or something like that. So it is phoning home (no pun intended) and tripping a flag somewhere. I'm sure no one is looking at it unless you call, so before you call, flash back to 100% stock.
UrbanBounca said:
I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not an invasion of privacy. They are protecting themselves from all of the warranty fraud that happens when people who complain about their phones try to return them under warranty.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2
When it comes to having to get a new phone, Verizon will not give you one if you have altered the phone. However, let's say your headphone jack stopped working and you need to send it in to get it repaired. They HAVE to fix your phone, regardless if it's rooted or not. Why? Because the only way they can't do warranty repairs with your phone being rooted, is because they HAVE to prove that rooting directly caused the issue with the phone. This is per the Magnusson-Moss Act Chapter 50 of United States Code Section 2304, which states:
Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance). (d) Remedy without charge For purposes of this section and of section 2302© of this
title, the term "without charge" means that the warrantor may not assess the consumer for any costs the warrantor or his representatives incur in connection with the required remedy of a warranted consumer product. An obligation under subsection (a)(1)(A) of this section to remedy without charge does not necessarily require the warrantor to compensate the consumer for incidental expenses; however, if any incidental expenses are incurred because the remedy is not made within a reasonable time or
because the warrantor imposed an unreasonable duty upon the consumer as a condition of securing remedy, then the consumer shall be entitled to recover reasonable incidental expenses which are so incurred in any action against the warrantor.
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So how does that mean my warranty isn't voided? If you go out and buy a brand new G2, you root it and have no issues. No problems. Then a 6 weeks later, you plug in your headphones and all of a sudden, no sound is coming out of your head phones. Or the sound coming out of your speaker is crackling. Or your SIM/SD card door breaks off. Just because you rooted your phone, LG still has to honor the 1 year warranty pertaining to THOSE problems. They will STILL have to fix your headphone jack, THEY STILL have to install a new speaker and STILL have to give you a new SIM/SD card door.
Reference;
http://www.droidrzr.com/index.php/t...-users-may-have-about-rooting-and-warranties/