Related
Please bear with me as I convert my thoughts into words.
We all know that symbiotic relationships work. One benefits from the other and the other benefits from the first. Taking the concept from the Driver Bounty thread, I've started to think that it would be very useful an "open air market". No, no, no...that doesn't sound right. Ok, let me use an example.
I think that S2U2 is great, but I think whats better is to have your own specialized custom unlock signature. For example, I would writing my name in cursive and the phone unlocks. Thats hell of a lot nicer than just sliding an icon. I'm willing to pay a maximum of 20 dollars to any one who makes this.
20 bucks. I can already imagine a developer thinking that its not worth their time. However, lets suppose 10 other people are interested in this app and would dish out $20 each, with 10 other people giving $10, and 20 people giving $5. Thats $400. That 400 dollars might be the threshold for a person to "take the challenge" or want to start working on that program.
Driver Bounty thread is a perfect example. Now this is taking that idea and applying to apps.
My thought is that people begin to pour our their ideas. And as ideas are generated, the reasonable ones, the feasable ones, and the worth while ones are selected. (Maybe with a poll?) And once agreed upon a certain app, those people interested would begin to put money in an "XDA Account". This "XDA Account" would just collect money and not withdraw money from peoples accounts until this threshold is met. Meaning I put my money down and it would not be withdrawn from my bank account until a person decides to create the app that is wanted. Once the app is made, he or she can walk off with the money and we can walk off with the app.
This is pretty much the exact same thing from driver bounty thread just applied to applications that people want/are thinking about.
Here are the benefits as I see it:
1. This would generate more people wanting to work on apps and not just relying on donations.
2. This would give the people want they want.
Happy Developers = Happy Users.
Now, lets suppose that my S2U2 idea (probably already been thought of before, in fact I'm sure it has) will catch on. Lets say that those certain people mentioned above would put their money down. Well, maybe a deal would be made. Those people who put their money down would get the app first, and would get updates every once in a while. Where as those who did not put their money down, who still want the app, don't get to reap the benefits.
This way I think we can bring more developers in and generate more applications. But more importantly, those guys who are working hard on these apps would be guaranteed some money, rather than waiting for donations.
Not that I'm against donations, its great! But I think this is also a good idea.
Now, this is all just in my head. I, in no way, would benefit from this as a user other than the fact that I could contribute to coming up with ideas for applications. This is just an idea that would make us all happy.
So what do you guys think? Is this a stupid idea? Has it been done before? Is it already being done and I'm just a moron for not seeing it? Or is this a good idea?
I look forward to seeing your feedback.
Feel free to be mean if this has been mentioned before. I can take it
SEE THIS: http://www.pocketpcaddict.com/forum...yet to see one, but I've never looked either)
Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
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It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
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Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
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So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
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Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.
Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.
Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
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Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.
Hello everyone,
As i am new here in the XDA world i don't know if this thread is legal or not but i will give it a shot, why not. I was always an apple fan boy since ipad 1, but for the past year i was having my doubts about apple. So i did my self a favor and i purchase an android device, more specifically a Samsung galaxy tab s 8.4 ( wifi only ) or aka ( SM-T700). I did a heave research before i purchased it and i realized it was the best thing under 10". ( i knew i was a getting a TW device )
After my purchase i realised i was not happy at all with the performance of the tablet and a friend suggested XDA as he is using it heavily for his own devices ( tab s, moto g 1st, kindle fire ) He was super pleased with the work of all the devs in here so i said why not, i will join.
After going through all the threads one by one, and reading every single post in them ( talking about T700 threads only ) i realized that the devs that are so effortlessly working on the ROMS and kernels they either don't have the tablet to test or they are not so motivated as they used to be, mainly because people demand things from them without giving back. I recently read in a thread a developer trying to defend his position about his ROM and another guy talking to him about the ROM and the battery life like sh**. Well if it was me i would easily ask from XDA to ban that user. After witnessing that i was like "WT* Dude"... Anw what i am trying to say here don't demand if you don't give, just wait patiently. These 3 paragraphs was only my introduction to my main point.
Since i want to thank our developers and i am talking about 3 here. The guy who makes CM11 @Barracuda77777 , the guy who makes CM12 @eousphoros and the guy who makes the kernels @UpInTheAir . I noticed that these guys are either not motivated enough cause many people don't appreciate or they either don't have the tablet to test and they are waiting for people to test therefore the ROMS come out slower.
My proposal to all of you users here and owners of the T700 version is why not collect some money and buy these guys 1 device each so they mod the hell out of it and everyone can get happier? This is not a charity for them and no they did not ask me to make this thread. I am making this thread because i want to thank them as much as possible for using their spare ours to give FREE their ROMS to all of us. How about we each tip 10-20$ to buy 3 devices and send them to the guys? It's a win-win for all. They get a nice Christmas present as a thank you from all of us and you all get better working roms with a cost of 10-20$
I am willing to collect the money for the guys, so i can get nice deals for the devices. If you are interested send me a PM and i will do my best to find the fastest shipping company in my country so i can deliver the goodies to them
TIME-WASTERS AND HATERS PLEASE DON'T EVEN REPLY TO THIS THREAD. YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME.
Glad for you to be on Xda! I have a T800 (10.5 inch model) and yet we also have roms and kernels from the same devs in this post. They both made a rom/kernels for both models! I'm glad that we have these devs that bring life into our tablets. I dont have any money right now ( not old enough for a job) but Im willing to test roms/ kernels for the devs and report on back for the model I own. Hopefully these devs can get what they deserve. We are lucky to already have such awesome roms and kernels and some other tablets do not even have cm11 yet. Glad that you made this post! It could help the devs get what they deserve because of what they have done to our devices and gave life to them. ?
It's not always about money or motivation or ungrateful end user.
For me, it's also about time. I have a job that involves traveling away and a family. These things are most important to me.
I already support devices i can't personally test and help with guidance here and there.
There's just not enough time in the day to do more as i have other device I'm developing for.
If anyone wishes to donate, please donate to your favorite recognized charity or XDA for hosting these forums. Without XDA we would have next to nothing.
Happy Christmas to all !
Fellow T700 Owner here.
I too would like to thank the Devs for the hard work they do and XDA for supporting the community by existing.
I am always willing to help out and test out anything and everything.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.
Really dissapointed
So apparently people don't like to give and get. From what i understood i see 170 views and 3 replies. What about everyone else? Free ROMS with demands? anw.. i ll give this a week and wait to collect money.
Thanks again.
Sporbillis said:
So apparently people don't like to give and get. From what i understood i see 170 views and 3 replies. What about everyone else? Free ROMS with demands? anw.. i ll give this a week and wait to collect money.
Thanks again.
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No bad intent ment here at all...but - Sporbillis, you're a brand new member to XDA. I would think there would be trust issues about sending money to ANYONE let alone a new member just popping up and collecting money. So don't feel like the folks here aren't responding because they're freeloaders....it's just too easy to get ripped off....
Just sayin'
flhthemi said:
No bad intent ment here at all...but - Sporbillis, you're a brand new member to XDA. I would think there would be trust issues about sending money to ANYONE let alone a new member just popping up and collecting money. So don't feel like the folks here aren't responding because they're freeloaders....it's just too easy to get ripped off....
Just sayin'
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Yea i get that, if i was going to ripoff people i wouldn't get into the fuss of joining xda and specifically the T700 owners. i would go join some other device with much more audience. anw.
I hear the frustration. Personally, I like to see ROMs from someone who is so passionate and motivated about the device that they went out and bought one, is willing to trip the Knox counter, void warranty and possibly brick the device. That person, I hope, would love the device enough to continue with development when most everyone else has moved on to the next latest and greatest device (DanielHK for the Samsung p6800, for example). In addition, the developer has to be thick-skinned enough to read complaints (both constructive and destructive) and deal with widely varying age groups that have different levels of expectations. Even so, for non-programmer types there is much that can be done via modification of the stock ROM, remove bloat, remove Knox, write to sdcard mod, etc. There is a bit of a learning curve.
What is it about the T700 performance that is unsatisfying? Perhaps there is already a solution. New launchers can be easily installed (Nova, for example). Developer options can tweak some limited performance issues. There are build prop and .xml mods also (requires root).
TonyBigs said:
I hear the frustration. Personally, I like to see ROMs from someone who is so passionate and motivated about the device that they went out and bought one, is willing to trip the Knox counter, void warranty and possibly brick the device. That person, I hope, would love the device enough to continue with development when most everyone else has moved on to the next latest and greatest device (DanielHK for the Samsung p6800, for example). In addition, the developer has to be thick-skinned enough to read complaints (both constructive and destructive) and deal with widely varying age groups that have different levels of expectations. Even so, for non-programmer types there is much that can be done via modification of the stock ROM, remove bloat, remove Knox, write to sdcard mod, etc. There is a bit of a learning curve.
What is it about the T700 performance that is unsatisfying? Perhaps there is already a solution. New launchers can be easily installed (Nova, for example). Developer options can tweak some limited performance issues. There are build prop and .xml mods also (requires root).
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I dont get how this reply fits this thread..
Sporbillis said:
I dont get how this reply fits this thread..
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It fits because one of the developers noted in the original post replied and explained his reasons as to why he (probably) will not participate. He suggested that the donated money go elsewhere. Keep in mind that giving developers a tablet is not, necessarily, "giving back" -- for the developer it is also proposing that they work. Does the request propose giving the developers a tablet with no expectations of a ROM ever being developed for the device and not bothering them if a ROM is not forthcoming? If so, that proposal might be considered "giving back". Otherwise, the proposal is just reducing the material/monetary overhead for the developer but not reducing (or funding) the workload.
If a ROM is required, offer up a substantial bounty worth the developer's time and effort along with the materials -- then there *may* be some takers. That offer might make developers happy. Given the lack of responses at this time it appears that the offer as it stands (funded mainly by others) is not enough.
TonyBigs said:
It fits because one of the developers noted in the original post replied and explained his reasons as to why he (probably) will not participate. He suggested that the donated money go elsewhere. Keep in mind that giving developers a tablet is not, necessarily, "giving back" -- for the developer it is also proposing that they work. Does the request propose giving the developers a tablet with no expectations of a ROM ever being developed for the device and not bothering them if a ROM is not forthcoming? If so, that proposal might be considered "giving back". Otherwise, the proposal is just reducing the material/monetary overhead for the developer but not reducing (or funding) the workload.
If a ROM is required, offer up a substantial bounty worth the developer's time and effort along with the materials -- then there *may* be some takers. That offer might make developers happy. Given the lack of responses at this time it appears that the offer as it stands (funded mainly by others) is not enough.
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Now i get your point and you are right. The only purpose of this thread was to help those developers who are developing the rom and struggling without a tablet to actually have a tablet to test but most importantly for us to Say "THANK YOU" to them by giving them the tablet. If they want to work more or less after getting the tablet is their business. I was just kind enough to think about starting this thread. About upintheair i get where he comes from " NO TIME AVAILABLE " and i appreciate his honesty. Even though he has a tablet. The money portion of the thread collected can be given to him if he has a tablet and again as a thank you not as a "please work more"
I hope i was clear enough because i was in a hurry writting.
Thanks
In regards to the what seems to be a disturbing trend in forcing people to "Buy" their hacks. (If You Wish To Use Them)
I was going to write a big long rambling post about it but i think the link below sums it up pretty good.
I think we have lost our way somewhere along the path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic#The_hacker_ethics
no one is forcing any one to buy anything. this root product didn't cost $0 on the developers end, especially in terms of time. if i put that much time and effort into a product, i would like to be compensated as well. if you don't want to pay the fee, then you don't get root. you were the one that knowingly bought a phone that didn't have an unlockable bootloader and didn't have root. having root and/or bootloader unlock on locked phones is not a right.
koftheworld said:
no one is forcing any one to buy anything. this root product didn't cost $0 on the developers end, especially in terms of time. if i put that much time and effort into a product, i would like to be compensated as well. if you don't want to pay the fee, then you don't get root. you were the one that knowingly bought a phone that didn't have an unlockable bootloader and didn't have root. having root and/or bootloader unlock on locked phones is not a right.
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I think your missing the point ... you even read the wiki article or just the first line of the post and go OMGMYYOUSOUNGRATEFUL lol
I didn't even read the article that you linked, however, I'd like to remind you that no one is forcing you to purchase anything? This is true with anything and everything. That's the problem with today's society, instant gratification and on the flip-side, a person's perceived right of entitlement. I say this all the time, if you don't like something, vote with your wallet. That goes for anything. I can't stand the fact that athletes and team owners make the amount of money they do, so I no longer pay to go to an event. I no longer pay to purchase swag, etc. I vote with my wallet.
Same here. If people have an issue with being charged for (I can't even call it root access), then don't buy it. It's really that simple.
You are correct... poor choice of words in the first line ... They are not Forcing me to do anything. But please try to see past my poor wording and realize the point.... Hacker Ethic ... hack the planet ...free the world ... not OMG i can make money of this! lol
Akrifay said:
I think your missing the point ... you even read the wiki article or just the first line of the post and go OMGMYYOUSOUNGRATEFUL lol
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Of course I read the post. This is not the golden age of android hacking anymore. Everyone is looking to monetize due to the complexity of actually getting root/bootloader unlock as compared to how the OS was in the beginning. The community, the phones, and the OS were much different in the beginning. At this point in time, I think people who don't have these skills and willingly purchased locked down devices should have their wallets open if they want anything. Maybe with the next big OS we'll see a return to "hacker ethics", but now it's about getting paid for you think your work is worth.
Why is it disturbing that you pay for their time and effort working on this? The Sunshine team spent countless ours and bricked countless devices to develop Sunshine. Should they bear the burden just so you can freely use the fruits of their labor?
What I think is disturbing is that people expect hackers and developers to do things for free. They don't have to do what they do. They don't have to put up with rude users (not referring to you). They don't have to release their work to the public. They don't have to reply to countless posts, PMs, and emails. It is a bunch of time they pit into this.
But, but, but...it's their hobby, they like doing it. I like working on cars as a hobby, but it doesn't mean I should change everyone's oil for free.
But, but but...releasing their methods benefits the android community as a whole. Making me give away my time and effort for the good of the community sounds like socialism.
Your reference to the hacking ethics forgets the assumption that other hackers are sharing their work too. Where is your share of the code that you're working on to benefit the hackers? Since there is no code of yours to share you can contribute monetarily, if they require it.
Akrifay said:
You are correct... poor choice of words in the first line ... They are not Forcing me to do anything. But please try to see past my poor wording and realize the point.... Hacker Ethic ... hack the planet ...free the world ... not OMG i can make money of this! lol
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I understand where you are coming from. There are still those that do imbibe those ideals, but most of them have disappeared into nexus land or have taken jobs outside of XDA (like Hash).
Akrifay said:
I think your missing the point ... you even read the wiki article or just the first line of the post and go OMGMYYOUSOUNGRATEFUL lol
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Ethics are not rules. You can follow them or not, its up to the individual. That being said, it does say "Information should be free", not that they should work for free. If maiko1 decides to publish information on the exploit he found, i guess that would be following ethics. He doesnt have to create a tool that does the work and release it for free. Hackers still have jobs. they have to buy food and pay rent. Many times hackers will find exploits and leverage them against companies for larger payouts or even a full time gig. In that light, I'm glad he released it, even if it is at a cost, because there's a real chance we might have never seen the exploit.
Munkee915 said:
Ethics are not rules. You can follow them or not, its up to the individual. That being said, it does say "Information should be free", not that they should work for free. If maiko1 decides to publish information on the exploit he found, i guess that would be following ethics. He doesnt have to create a tool that does the work and release it for free. Hackers still have jobs. they have to buy food and pay rent. Many times hackers will find exploits and leverage them against companies for larger payouts or even a full time gig. In that light, I'm glad he released it, even if it is at a cost, because there's a real chance we might have never seen the exploit.
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I had never thought/considered that, but it makes sense.
orangechoochoo said:
Why is it disturbing that you pay for their time and effort working on this? The Sunshine team spent countless ours and bricked countless devices to develop Sunshine. Should they bear the burden just so you can freely use the fruits of their labor?
What I think is disturbing is that people expect hackers and developers to do things for free. They don't have to do what they do. They don't have to put up with rude users (not referring to you). They don't have to release their work to the public. They don't have to reply to countless posts, PMs, and emails. It is a bunch of time they pit into this.
But, but, but...it's their hobby, they like doing it. I like working on cars as a hobby, but it doesn't mean I should change everyone's oil for free.
But, but but...releasing their methods benefits the android community as a whole. Making me give away my time and effort for the good of the community sounds like socialism.
Your reference to the hacking ethics forgets the assumption that other hackers are sharing their work too. Where is your share of the code that you're working on to benefit the hackers? Since there is no code of yours to share you can contribute monetarily, if they require it.
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I have contributed to many a Dev over the years... I am not a Dev per say ... But i believe i am a Hacker by the true definition ... just happens not to be Android Software that i hack. It is amazing work that they do and i am very appreciative for it. But leave it up to the individual to "donate" ... I dont know guess im just an old schooler in a new schooler world lol
Munkee915 said:
Ethics are not rules. You can follow them or not, its up to the individual. That being said, it does say "Information should be free", not that they should work for free. If maiko1 decides to publish information on the exploit he found, i guess that would be following ethics. He doesnt have to create a tool that does the work and release it for free. Hackers still have jobs. they have to buy food and pay rent. Many times hackers will find exploits and leverage them against companies for larger payouts or even a full time gig. In that light, I'm glad he released it, even if it is at a cost, because there's a real chance we might have never seen the exploit.
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Oh I know! This is great! ABSOLUTELY Ethics are Subjective 100% I agree with you totally ... i guess it just boils down to your definition of right and wrong... Hey i hope he makes a ton of money off it i really do ... Just by my definition i have in MY head i consider it ethically wrong ... IMO hehe
I'm all for supporting the devs for their hard work and time. However, I think whats trying to be communicated here is the change in mindset that we have moved to a format of people willing to donate for a project vs. making it mandatory. Again while I do feel those who do the work should get compensated, I am kinda of disappointed in the idea of an X amount of $$. The bounty was set up so people can donate what they can to the project. There will be many people who are willing to pay money but not $20, others may be willing to pay more. With a mandatory set amount you tend to alienate some of the community. Things have changed and it is getting harder to root devices. I know it takes more work. I acknowledge this. However, it does feel that overall sense of community is suffering as a result. I respect the Dev's decision in how to release the root method. However, I am one who will not be rooting my device because my needs just don't require it and therefor I don't feel it would be worth $20 for me to have root. That's just me though.
Symbiontsoul said:
I'm all for supporting the devs for their hard work and time. However, I think whats trying to be communicated here is the change in mindset that we have moved to a format of people willing to donate for a project vs. making it mandatory. Again while I do feel those who do the work should get compensated, I am kinda of disappointed in the idea of an X amount of $$. The bounty was set up so people can donate what they can to the project. There will be many people who are willing to pay money but not $20, others may be willing to pay more. With a mandatory set amount you tend to alienate some of the community. Things have changed and it is getting harder to root devices. I know it takes more work. I acknowledge this. However, it does feel that overall sense of community is suffering as a result. I respect the Dev's decision in how to release the root method. However, I am one who will not be rooting my device because my needs just don't require it and therefor I don't feel it would be worth $20 for me to have root. That's just me though.
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Yay im getting through! lol
I forgot about the bounty. Did the guy get it? If so, then I it's odd that he is asking for additional payment too.
Edit- I see that the root bounty thread was closed be cause the rooter is requiring $20 payment t instead.
wow, XDA sure has changed over the years.
Akrifay said:
In regards to the what seems to be a disturbing trend in forcing people to "Buy" their hacks. (If You Wish To Use Them)
I was going to write a big long rambling post about it but i think the link below sums it up pretty good.
I think we have lost our way somewhere along the path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_ethic#The_hacker_ethics
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If I am to agree with you, I would like to see your free hack/exploit contribution to the community.
You aren't paying for a root method. The root method is explained. You're paying for the product that does it for you.
Akrifay said:
Oh I know! This is great! ABSOLUTELY Ethics are Subjective 100% I agree with you totally ... i guess it just boils down to your definition of right and wrong... Hey i hope he makes a ton of money off it i really do ... Just by my definition i have in MY head i consider it ethically wrong ... IMO hehe
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Well, look at it this way. By the definition you posted, in that information should be free, maiko1 had no further responsibility to the community than to make a post and say "Hey, i found XYZ exploit. Do with it what you will." He did not have to say how that exploit specifically would allow us to gain root access, let alone make a tool that did it for us. All he had to do was publish the information. Then he would have been an "ethical hacker" according to your definition. Now, seeing as how in the post above the one i quoted, you stated you are not an Android developer, even if you had this information available for free, what would you do with it? By your own admittance you wouldnt be able to achieve root with just the information, you still needed a tool to do it for you. Someone has to develop this tool. There are no ethics for "ethical development" and certainly no expectation that it should be free. Developers work for money. Don't confuse hacking with developing. Hacking is finding exploits. Developing tools to take advantage of them is a whole other story.
Also, just to kill the whole "the hack should be free" argument :
As Stallman notes, "free" refers to unrestricted access; it does not refer to price.
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From the article you linked. You have access to the method and tool, he didnt root his own phone and keep it from the rest of us. Doesnt mean you shouldnt pay for it.
I can't speak for those behind the root "hack", but I know I don't work for free.
Your time isn't worthless, so why should mine?
adrynalyne said:
Your time isn't worthless, so why should mine?
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Furthermore, your skills aren't worthless either, so why should they be free?
I've been fortunate enough to have parents who have been able to make it possible for me to not have to work. I've never had a job before, but I'm really interested and I would like to get working somewhere! I am just finishing high school, and I am starting College after summer, I have an entire summer free to work! But where o:
Well first let me mention this. I have a close friend who currently works at Papa Murphy's, he knows there's an open spot for me and I could get a job there no question, according to him. Has anyone here worked at a similar business who could provide me with some insight regarding a Pizza place, or fast food in general? Like it, hate it, or just okay?
Other than that little.. idea, I have nothing else in mind specifically, I'm looking for recommendations! I'm into tech, and while I'm not professional in any one area of tech, I would certainly consider myself more knowledgeable with technology than your average consumer.
Best Buy maybe? Target? A Grocery store?
I have nothing specific in mind, if there's anything you would be willing to share with me, please do! A job you liked, a job you hated, things to look for and things to stay away from, anything! Share me with me your wisdom from experience!
2PMintheAM said:
I've been fortunate enough to have parents who have been able to make it possible for me to not have to work. I've never had a job before, but I'm really interested and I would like to get working somewhere! I am just finishing high school, and I am starting College after summer, I have an entire summer free to work! But where o:
Well first let me mention this. I have a close friend who currently works at Papa Murphy's, he knows there's an open spot for me and I could get a job there no question, according to him. Has anyone here worked at a similar business who could provide me with some insight regarding a Pizza place, or fast food in general? Like it, hate it, or just okay?
Other than that little.. idea, I have nothing else in mind specifically, I'm looking for recommendations! I'm into tech, and while I'm not professional in any one area of tech, I would certainly consider myself more knowledgeable with technology than your average consumer.
Best Buy maybe? Target? A Grocery store?
I have nothing specific in mind, if there's anything you would be willing to share with me, please do! A job you liked, a job you hated, things to look for and things to stay away from, anything! Share me with me your wisdom from experience!
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Things you need to ask yourself before getting a job:
-Do I need or want a job?
-What for?
-Do I have a specific field I'm interested on?
-How much money do I require to survive?
-If need to drive...do I own a car?
-Will I take this job seriously or just need something to kill time?
-Can I do something on my own before I get involved in the corporate world?
-Is there any small shops where I may be able to get training on a specific trade/skill?
After you gather this info, then carry on with what is more convenient to you.
Cheers,
M_T_M said:
Things you need to ask yourself before getting a job:
-Do I need or want a job?
-What for?
-Do I have a specific field I'm interested on?
-How much money do I require to survive?
-If need to drive...do I own a car?
-Will I take this job seriously or just need something to kill time?
-Can I do something on my own before I get involved in the corporate world?
-Is there any small shops where I may be able to get training on a specific trade/skill?
After you gather this info, then carry on with what is more convenient to you.
Cheers,
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Thanks for the reply!
Although my parents pay for my food, education (currently), and other normal expenses, I typically have to come up with my own money for something that isn't necessary, or the occasional "gift".
I want a job for the extra money so I can gain experience, and become more financial independent from my parents. I have a car and I live in a pretty populated city, not a major city, and I know there's tons of work available. I'll certainly take any job seriously, and I truly do enjoy becoming more educated in.. anything really!
I have a car and I do not "need" a job, which I know understand my title may be misleading.. oops, but I certainly want it for reasons more important than just "to kill time" d:
Go to college...or a trade school. Learn to code. Learn to do what you love so someone will love to hire you doing what you love. Do not settle for something just because you need a job. Work hard to do something you enjoying working hard at. If you enjoy tech, learn something in the tech field and search for jobs related to it. In an article written by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in 2013, it was estimated that between 2010 and 2020, jobs in computer systems design and related services "is expected to grow at an average annual rate of 6.1 percent, compared with 3.6 percent for the broad industry category—professional, scientific, and technical services—and 2.9 percent for all industries." You are young and you are interested in one of the most profitable markets currently available. Use that interest to advance your career and your life. It's not enough to just love tech...you have to do your best to learn about the industry surrounding it so you can profit from the advances and secure your future.
Just my two cents.
Start phone repairs. Saying you started you own business at 18 has to be a big plus.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 4........FAKE! Admit it, you thought I had money for a second didn't you?
you can get job online.. but it takes a hardwork and patience to earn money online...
I got one
SynDevOut said:
I got one
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Which one?? Online?
Actually there are online sites which pay you for completing surveys you can get upto $1 per survey in some sites like clixsence.......