Database Develop

A Brief Letter to Microsoft

Hi all. I've decided to try and make some future Microsoft product "my idea", so I've submitted the following letter to them via billg [at] microsoft [dit] com. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input.
Flaming is sure to happen, and while I won't argue with you, I will probably wish your firstborn child is used as a shot put.
Dear Microsoft,
Lately I’ve been bombarded with commercial after commercial showing random people (and their self perceptions) stating that Windows 7 was their idea for one reason or another. I’m not completely disgusted by these or anything, but it started my mind on one of those winding roads a character in a story might have to take to get home, or to the girl, or to the climax, or… well I guess that is kind of repetitious – but the point is, I started thinking about the variety of Microsoft’s operating systems and the history they’ve had – rather, our history together.
I’ve used just about everything Microsoft has created… I started my computer “education” by soldering a few broken parts back together on a Commodore 64 I found in a dump, and then learning BASIC on it (the BASIC on the Commodore 64 was a variant created and licensed by Microsoft). Right now, I’m typing this in Microsoft Word, on a laptop that has Microsoft Windows Vista, being distracted by a cellular phone that runs Microsoft Windows Phone 6.5.
That was a mouthful when I read it aloud.
But the reason for this letter is not so much a history lesson, but a worry of what is to come. It seems the goal over there the past few years is some cross between being different and being more like Macintosh, or Google, or insert company name here, and I’m here to state that I don’t like the transformation the publicists and tech news sites are ranting and raving about.
A few examples?
- Most recently must be the attempt to remove the clipboard features from my phone. I say “attempt”, because I am willing to bet that will be brought back, either by you or some developers out there.
- Office 2007’s menu structure looks like someone tried to “make it better” and ruined it.
- Windows Vista and Windows 7 both look like some kind of cross-dressing Microsoft product who was “supposed to be a Mac”.
What happens when you become so close to the competition that nobody can tell you apart? Developers and IT teams may not like parts of Windows, but they are able adjust most of what they don’t like to work for them. If this path continues, and all of the contenders out there do the exact same thing, you’re really shooting yourselves in the collective foot by taking away your uniqueness.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is “different” does not equal “better”. Get back to your roots and make something that your current audience will buy. Put them above the “new customers” you’re trying to reach. It’s the same error that many companies make nowadays – neglecting the long time customers for some new ones. You end up losing great customers that way.
See, I am a man. There’s an expression stating that men marry women expecting them to be the same, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change. I feel like Microsoft is giving in to the women out there – the ones who complain about it being too hard to use or not pretty enough – and we have enough of that already. I’m not trying to hate on women out there, but maybe the movie Team America explained it best… something about assholes, dicks, and ******* (I won’t go into it, but watch the movie if you need an explanation). What we need is for Microsoft to be a **** again.
Good luck and happy creating,
(Name Removed)
P.S. This email was sent using Microsoft Outlook.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Drunk

oooh nice
so did they reply back and what did the email say?
anyway nice letter

no replies yet, but I just sent it last night.

Mad props for Team America reference =P

the whole my idea is just a commercial not a real deal imho
http://gizmodo.com/5477384/windows-7-was-my-idea-but-to-be-fair-i-dont-know-what-im-talking-about

I don't doubt that it is just a big marketing gimick, but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones.

I'm waiting for them to show the ads on TV which make the claim that W7 has fewer clicks so I can report it to the ASA.
Starting a program like solitaire with the mouse is either the same number (if you don't mind a 2 second wait) or one more click than XP/Vista.
As for getting to the network card properties that's a heck of a lot more clicks than Vista or XP.
W7 has some very well thought out features, but unfortunately it's got more that just aren't.
I hate MS for putting me in a position where I have to say I prefer Vista! Damn them! Damn them to Hades!
WM7 looks awful, and the restrictions they're putting on it make no user or business sense.
Office 2007 is appauling, what were they thinking? Why make an application which users have to refer to google in order to complete simple common tasks?

Don't expect a reply, Drunk, at least something that isn't just generically polite and thanking you for your thoughtful input.
You blended good points that resonate with much of their shrinking user base, made up partly by people who have no idea they're running Microsoft and also in part by people who are obsessed with modifying them, with that bit on genitals. They're not interested in us anymore, nor would they want to add a lot of attention to your letter by giving you something from them to paste on and spread around. They want to intercept people from buying the other phones with no regard to who's already buying their own phones, and you can't really blame them considering how fast they're still falling (down 4% last quarter) toward obscurity.
Just to offer myself as an example of others reading what you just posted and what may be on their own minds, considering I made two websites about the damn thing, I'd say I was a bonafide WinMo fanatic, one of the last expected to say adios, but I just did, a Nexus One, and not only will I continue to love and go nuts with it I will attempt to take others with me. It's brewing right here on XDA, the place you'd think would be the haven mainly for people who like to do what can mostly only be done exclusively with WinMo phones.
Actually I read this by mistake, forgot to get rid of all my WinMo rss feeds on Google Reader to which my phone's synced. Good read though, glad you posted it. So thanks.
But no matter how much rabble you rouse here nor what signs you wave in front of their Seattle office you won't stop this train, the general direction of which they've made it clear that they are taking with WP7 being mostly the opposite of what a lot of us want. They can't please everyone and they'd rather please would-otherwise-be customers of their competitors even at the expense of estranging themselves from part of their existing customers. On the bright side, in addition to there being other options (specifically the one I took), they claim they'll keep supporting existing versions of WinMo for at least a while, though not forever on new devices I don't think which will have unique hardware that if I heard correctly won't even have removable storage, not to mention any support for decentralized application distribution. You don't like the sound of what's coming but what's coming is in their opinion good for business and I suppose mine too. When you're already failing at this rate in such a critical time of penetrating a huge market with enormous potential that will be realized further and further every day, it's hard to come up with a dumb idea on how to do things differently. Not to mention I've seen quite a few extremists shrug off each new bit of bad news saying Whatever I'll still try it, and once they do, then Microsoft has got them for at least a long enough period of time to figure out how to keep them hooked while they intercept little bits of business from the others. Right now they're handing business away. It's a joke.
Making sure the likes of you and others on sites like XDA remain happy customers as they implement these drastic changes to their mobile operations is not high up on their to do list.
Just sayin'.
Doug

Can't say I don't agree with you on most of that. I honestly don't expect much of a reply... at most a blanket letter or something like that. I've also been working my way to other vendors. I've got some android variant on my TP2 now and Ubuntu on my laptop (both still dual boots, but it's a step that direction). I just didn't want it all to happen without my 2 cents' worth being thrown at them.
Thanks for stopping by.

I hear you man, I'm all about ranting. This and this in particular. Also this.
Take a look at that and mobilitydigest.com (basically the same with a less weird domain), you'd make a great writer. Perfect style, perfect background (impressive by the way), perfect fire in your belly. We can't yet offer you money but what we can give you is an audience. Let me know.

"but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones."
yeah with the whole win phone 7 seeming like being a copy of the features of org iphone sure sounds like they are getting bad advice

Root Security

I work in computer security in my day job, and while I am interested in all the extra features one can get with rooting your nook color, I can't help but cringe when I see people installing unsigned, unvetted software, closed source which performs modifications to their devices. At least with Cyanogen's roms, you've got a fighting chance to look at their code in git.
How do we handle security when you don't know what you're sticking on to your tablet? How do we know that someone hasn't modified the keyboard app with a keylogger, for example?

Well, it's pretty much like everything else. You can trust the mechanic who works on your car or the electrician who rewires your house or you can fix it yourself. You probably pick those guys based on reputation or credentials. Do that here. Don't install software from somebody you don't feel you can trust unless you have the ability to check the code yourself.
That's just one of the reasons I'm happy to see the CM Team getting on board.

I guess what I'm getting at, is I'd love to be able to see exactly how they 'rooted' the system, and each step that takes place during the process. The first root that came out, I got about 50% there, but hit a minor roadblock and lost interest. I do appreciate all the work that goes into this, and I was surprised at how many people would install the root without thinking first what they're putting on their device. I know 99% of the time, people are honest and trustworthy. However, all you need is one person to compromise a server, change a zipfile, etc, and you're in a world of pain.

State of our development!

First off let me say this isnt my style, I am not one for airing anyones business. I wanted to keep the matter private and handle it behind the scenes so that this small issue didnt turn in to an all out war. As you can see this is exactly what happened.
I am only doing this because i want to clear the air for everyone involved, you all got worked up over nothing really. I will give you a very brief explanation of what happened, and i will not name any names.
With that being said, i first want to make an apology to the 2 devs involved:
Bananacakes, i think that i might not have stated my case very well with you, and based on your posts i feel that there might have been a language barrier and you may have taken what i said out of context. All i ever wanted was for you to talk to me about the issue so i could get your side of the story and make a determination.
WildChild, im sorry that i did not delete BC's rant with everyone elses. I didnt mean to make you look like an a$$. I wanted to give BC a voice on the matter but i didnt want to censor him completely. And in hindsight i may have damaged your name. Was not my intention, and i feel bad that it happened.
In this open community it is acceptable to share and borrow from others but its common courtesy to give the other dev credit for their work.
***********
A brief summary of what happened:
A MEMBER of the community (not one of the devs involved) brought to me an issue of similarities between 2 dev's. provided some screen shots and asked me to investigate the matter, as it APPEARED to be a Kanging issue (to get the story straight, it was MORE than just a so called script). So i contacted both devs involved, one was very cooperative and the other never contacted me. I waited 5 days before i took the next step at contacting the dev and this is where it all turned really ugly and public.
***********
Now, in this issue there has been numerous attacks on each others and some very ugly things said. Im willing to overlook all of those at this moment as i know a lot of you were upset. Loosing 2 dev's is a serious matter when we dont have that many to begin with. If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Now quick, everyone, group hug!
I am going to leave it open for in case anyone wants to comment or beg either dev to come back. But the instant that someone gets negative toward either dev (i dont care if you talk bad about me, lol) i will lock this from comments.

I had this as a sticky, but in reality there isnt much going on in here right now, so really there is no need. I will only sticky if it starts to fall towards the bottom.

Please come back WC , WE MISS YOU

Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?

jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing has been proved at this point. And the HoliRaider thread is being looked at by pstevep.

jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am waiting to talk to bananacakes before any decisions are made. I'm hoping we can work all of this out in a friendly non confrontational way.
I will post here any updates.
Thanks everyone for cooperating.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium

Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.

NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App

So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?

Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid

Crimson Ghoul said:
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
haggardh said:
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.

shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only Bananacakes and Wild Child were constantly updating their roms though... that's what I meant

I have been edited because i cant follow directions.
shogunmark said:
If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App

come at me bro said:
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am the only mod involved with this. But to answer your question, no i am not currently a dev.

NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real... finally, a voice of reason. I mean, common sense. Okay so everyone has something to be bitter about. But how will that get anyone anywhere?
Walking away from a problem is NEVER the solution. At least Pirate and vhjc are still here, or so it seems.

I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.

shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have never noticed that. Now that I think about it Some things do stick out. Well Thank you. I just saw where hes from. That being said its a different culture between the two. So in each others eyes they were right, and the other wrong.
So I hope neither of them are the stubborn type and decide to work things out.

GSLEON3 nailed it!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes and yes.

GSLEON3 said:
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have decided to teach myself the trades of development on the android system. Need to put my AAS degree to the test
Sent from my HTC Vivid

[Q] Self taught or not?

Just wondering how all you experienced developers on here started out. I know you have probably been asked many times before but I am genuinely interested.
I am by no means any sort of developer. I first came to this site about two years ago when I first learned of rooting. Prior to that I had no knowledge whatsoever of developing or programming.
However I cant keep off here. Is it something that can be self taught. I would really love to delve into this so that I can start to have a little input into what goes on here and even if its just testing at least I could maybe be of help to someone. I have picked up little bits on how things work but my main question is where would be a good place to start self teaching??? It is becoming somewhat of an interest for me.
Any pointers would be hugely appreciated.
Thanks

If it's apps your interested in then AdamOutler has recently done a great video/article combo which would get you started. Check the portal / youtube channel....
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

I suppose anything really just to get a basic understanding to start with. I would love eventually to be able to create/modify custom roms ect, but yeah thanks for the pointer.

hammoliam said:
I suppose anything really just to get a basic understanding to start with. I would love eventually to be able to create/modify custom roms ect, but yeah thanks for the pointer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for roms, check if your device is supported by Dsixdas kitchen, if so that's a great place to start tinkering...
If you want to really start making changes to things though your going to need to learn to code to some extent...
Read and search, read and search...
Good luck
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

If you want a great beginning developer environment, wp7 is the easiest and most user friendly one to dive into.

I taught myself python with old boxed up books from the back rooms of my high school library. Didn't have a computer and did all my work on notebook paper. My first language. So, yeah, you can teach yourself anything.
I'm reading this right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Communications-Electronic-Warfare-Adrian-Graham/dp/0470688718
Has tons of practical applications.
Might get a kick out of what I'm reading right now:
Communications, Radar and Electronic Warfare
Frontiers in Antennas: Next Generation Design and Engineering
Advances in Cryptology 2011
Digital Forensics with Open Source Tools
Philosophy and Simulation: The Emergence of Synthetic Reason

boborone said:
I taught myself python with old boxed up books from the back rooms of my high school library. Didn't have a computer and did all my work on notebook paper. My first language. So, yeah, you can teach yourself anything.
I'm reading this right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Communications-Electronic-Warfare-Adrian-Graham/dp/0470688718
Has tons of practical applications.
Might get a kick out of what I'm reading right now:
Communications, Radar and Electronic Warfare
Frontiers in Antennas: Next Generation Design and Engineering
Advances in Cryptology 2011
Digital Forensics with Open Source Tools
Philosophy and Simulation: The Emergence of Synthetic Reason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i'm done with the list and ready to take over local frequencies with my own propaganda. read, play good music on pirated radio
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Nowhere near an experienced developer, but with a couple of apps and a ROM WIP, the only thing that taught me was xda-tv

Learning to me is just when somebody puts a puzzle in front of you with no clues or guidelines. But you are surrounded by 50k people that you may ask questions (xda).
I just keep trying to solve the puzzle and if I really don't get something I just ask xda.
That's just how I learn. Its how I've always learn. Just dive into it and rip it apart. Think as logically as possible and listen to some cool dub step while doing so for extra learning points.
Sent from my Wildfire S A510e using xda premium

Developing help

Hey guys I've been flashing and rooting and unlocking for a couple years and I'd like to actually learn how to build roms, apps, ect. Where can I learn?
Sent from my PACman Atrix HD using XDA Premium

I think the best place to start learning how to develop apps is the official android SDK with adt. but if building android is what you want then take any Linux distro and start reading about official aosp. information for both are publicly available from Google.

frog1982 said:
I think the best place to start learning how to develop apps is the official android SDK with adt. but if building android is what you want then take any Linux distro and start reading about official aosp. information for both are publicly available from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linux is, like, mac or something right? I'm on Windows 7 so am I screwed?

Blackest Pain said:
Linux is, like, mac or something right? I'm on Windows 7 so am I screwed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read this.
Good luck!
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/dual-boot-windows-7-ubuntu.html
Sent from my MB886 using xda premium

Blackest Pain said:
Linux is, like, mac or something right? I'm on Windows 7 so am I screwed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
buy a decent sized harddrive and install ubuntu or mint linux on it. then you can dual boot win7 and linux like me. Just start tooling around with the linux command line (terminal) and learning how to think like a geek lol. Then take someones rom, and take it all apart. look at what makes up a rom... the apps, libs, frameworks, etc. Setup a build environment on your linux box, download the official source code from google, and try compiling it until you can do so without errors. at that point, if you want to start actually deving, you need to know java, cuz that's what source code is in mostly. there are alot of source code modifications avaiable on xda, try merging one in with the source code and rebuilding it and see if it compiles... if not, it''ll tell you where the error is. just play around with it, practice, ask questions, but actually jumping in and just making your self do it is the best way

Youngunn2008 said:
buy a decent sized harddrive and install ubuntu or mint linux on it. then you can dual boot win7 and linux like me. Just start tooling around with the linux command line (terminal) and learning how to think like a geek lol. Then take someones rom, and take it all apart. look at what makes up a rom... the apps, libs, frameworks, etc. Setup a build environment on your linux box, download the official source code from google, and try compiling it until you can do so without errors. at that point, if you want to start actually deving, you need to know java, cuz that's what source code is in mostly. there are alot of source code modifications avaiable on xda, try merging one in with the source code and rebuilding it and see if it compiles... if not, it''ll tell you where the error is. just play around with it, practice, ask questions, but actually jumping in and just making your self do it is the best way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks What size hard drive do you recommend and what rom should I dismantle?
(I'd thank both of you but apparently there's a thanks limit I didn't know about...)

each aosp build is about 30 gigs and Linux takes almost no room no matter which distro you use so when it comes to the size of the HDD it is all about the balance of how often you want to clean and how much you want to spend.

frog1982 said:
each aosp build is about 30 gigs and Linux takes almost no room no matter which distro you use so when it comes to the size of the HDD it is all about the balance of how often you want to clean and how much you want to spend.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That. I'll add that, on my PC, Linux uses 20GB of space...but I also have two distros installed on the same partiton with one being a chrooted build environment.
Roms use around 20-30GB as is, another 15-20GB is used up when compiling, so you want to reserve 40-50GB PER ROM to be safe.
If you do buy a hard drive just for compiling roms, BUY A SSD...solid state drive. That and RAM will help you the most. I'd expect just a SSD alone would cut my current build times in half.
I'll tell ya that without any Linux experience at all that you're gonna be in for a nice fun time.
Now, if you just wanna write apps, LEARN JAVA. You can do app writing on Windows and test on an Android Emulator (or your phone for at matter). No Linux necessary for just writing apps.
That said, if you want to get into compiling roms, you've picked the right place because I will help you if your serious. If you ask me a SPECIFIC QUESTION I'll give a specific answer. Don't ask "How do I use git?" cause I might not reply very nicely. Ask me "How do I update the kernel with the Dev Teams latest updates and I'll give you step by step instructions. I'm about to have 3 different roms I'm gonna have to compile. So if you just wanna pick one of them that isn't PAC, feel free to be the compiler of it. So far I've had multiple offers for compilers and only @Youngunn2008 has stepped up and actually started doing it.
EDIT:
//I started building custom roms about a year into using Android. Had to. Nobody else on my device could (or would?) and I wanted more roms, simple as that. All I did was CM7, PA, and a few others, but it got me to where I am now. Kanged from Quarx's repos. I owe much of my Android knowledge just from watching his commit history (and for keeping us up-to-date with proper drivers). A good Dev Base is a good place to start from, just remember to give proper credit and thanks (and ask permission if it isn't open souce -- that's a big one).

You guys are the best. I'm gonna start looking for the equipment asap. Although I need to learn how to write code, so I'm gonna go through Java.
@skeevydude I'll definitely hit you up when I need serious help
P.s. where do you recommend I learn Java from?
Thanks everyone!
Sent from my PACman Atrix HD using XDA Premium

Blackest Pain said:
You guys are the best. I'm gonna start looking for the equipment asap. Although I need to learn how to write code, so I'm gonna go through Java.
@skeevydude I'll definitely hit you up when I need serious help
P.s. where do you recommend I learn Java from?
Thanks everyone!
Sent from my PACman Atrix HD using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://developer.android.com/training/index.html

frog1982 said:
http://developer.android.com/training/index.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd click Thanks but I've seemed to run out of them (seriously, 8 thanks a day? Really?), so thanks. I can't read script at all (It's like looking a spanish, knowing it's spanish, and not knowing what it says) but I'll try to stumble through this lol

Blackest Pain said:
I'd click Thanks but I've seemed to run out of them (seriously, 8 thanks a day? Really?), so thanks. I can't read script at all (It's like looking a spanish, knowing it's spanish, and not knowing what it says) but I'll try to stumble through this lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my suggestion is to download the SDK and start following the my first app tutorial. I did not understand code at all until I did that and then things started falling into place and making sense.

Blackest Pain said:
You guys are the best. I'm gonna start looking for the equipment asap. Although I need to learn how to write code, so I'm gonna go through Java.
@skeevydude I'll definitely hit you up when I need serious help
P.s. where do you recommend I learn Java from?
Thanks everyone!
Sent from my PACman Atrix HD using XDA Premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't tell ya where to learn Java from -- I don't know it. I'm starting to learn it myself...meaning today....but it really depends on the weather on what I can for the rest of the day -- lost internet for most of yesterday during a thunderstom and since another one is rolling in I might have to shut my machines down. Also why I haven't been on a whole lot the past 2 days. After today its supposed to be clear skies ahead.
I've just been lucky cause even though I don't know Java, its still pretty human readable and easy to figure out what I need to do when I merge code.
For a bit of help Java=Apps, C++=Kernel/Hardware. Not necessarily 100% true, but for the most part it is.
If you wanna get into writing apps for making money then start with Java....the only reason why I'm starting with Java over C++. As much as I'd like to learn C++\Bionic to help with bug fixes for the kernel, hardware libraries, etc, I'm flat broke and can't find a decent job -- Java and a good idea could fix that. Combine my current situation with the fact that in 10-15 years I won't even be able to do my current line of work (construction is a young man's job) so I need to buckle down and learn a new trade that doesn't involve 8-12 hours work in the sun, crap pay, sore body at the end of every day, and no real job security or benefits.
If anyone reading the above is thinking that I'm thinking I could be the next App Millionaire...I'm not. I'd be happy just to break the poverty line (1-3 thousand a month or more than 18k a year)....cost of living isn't that high in Arkansas luckily. I'd hate to live in NYC\Random Big City where a crappy 1 room apartment's rent is a high as a high-end middle class home here.

skeevydude said:
Couldn't tell ya where to learn Java from -- I don't know it. I'm starting to learn it myself...meaning today....but it really depends on the weather on what I can for the rest of the day -- lost internet for most of yesterday during a thunderstom and since another one is rolling in I might have to shut my machines down. Also why I haven't been on a whole lot the past 2 days. After today its supposed to be clear skies ahead.
I've just been lucky cause even though I don't know Java, its still pretty human readable and easy to figure out what I need to do when I merge code.
For a bit of help Java=Apps, C++=Kernel/Hardware. Not necessarily 100% true, but for the most part it is.
If you wanna get into writing apps for making money then start with Java....the only reason why I'm starting with Java over C++. As much as I'd like to learn C++\Bionic to help with bug fixes for the kernel, hardware libraries, etc, I'm flat broke and can't find a decent job -- Java and a good idea could fix that. Combine my current situation with the fact that in 10-15 years I won't even be able to do my current line of work (construction is a young man's job) so I need to buckle down and learn a new trade that doesn't involve 8-12 hours work in the sun, crap pay, sore body at the end of every day, and no real job security or benefits.
If anyone reading the above is thinking that I'm thinking I could be the next App Millionaire...I'm not. I'd be happy just to break the poverty line (1-3 thousand a month or more than 18k a year)....cost of living isn't that high in Arkansas luckily. I'd hate to live in NYC\Random Big City where a crappy 1 room apartment's rent is a high as a high-end middle class home here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would also recommend Java. I'm in an internship developing an Android app for a local company and it's pretty straightforward. I'm not very good at building GUIs, but I can manage the flow of code fairly well and I'm learning as I go.
I didn't know you were in construction, Skeevy... With how skilled you seem in all of this I would have thought you'd be from some sort of tech trade.
I've been looking into ROM development myself but it seems a bit overwhelming to me. I have always been interested in how operating systems are put together and built, but the most complex thing I've ever done was patch together a Linux server box for gaming and hosting an old website I had a year or two back.
I have worked with Linux for quite a while and I now run Ubuntu as a primary, no dualboot. It kinda sucks to get used to the lack of applications but I would much rather have the stability and responsiveness of a Linux system. Plus documentation is everywhere so anything is usually fairly easy to fix/get working.
If you guys could post some websites/threads with some tutorials or further reading so I can know what I am getting myself into, that would be awesome. I have always hoped that one day I'd be able to help you guys out with getting bugs squashed and features added.

spy_1134 said:
I would also recommend Java. I'm in an internship developing an Android app for a local company and it's pretty straightforward. I'm not very good at building GUIs, but I can manage the flow of code fairly well and I'm learning as I go.
I didn't know you were in construction, Skeevy... With how skilled you seem in all of this I would have thought you'd be from some sort of tech trade.
I've been looking into ROM development myself but it seems a bit overwhelming to me. I have always been interested in how operating systems are put together and built, but the most complex thing I've ever done was patch together a Linux server box for gaming and hosting an old website I had a year or two back.
I have worked with Linux for quite a while and I now run Ubuntu as a primary, no dualboot. It kinda sucks to get used to the lack of applications but I would much rather have the stability and responsiveness of a Linux system. Plus documentation is everywhere so anything is usually fairly easy to fix/get working.
If you guys could post some websites/threads with some tutorials or further reading so I can know what I am getting myself into, that would be awesome. I have always hoped that one day I'd be able to help you guys out with getting bugs squashed and features added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GUI's are a pita to me as well...but then again, I'm barley mediocre at photoshop
I used to make good money doing what I do, and I liked doing it. I was doing custom wrought iron fences and gates -- the kind you see on high end lake houses and such. Since around September of '08 that line of work went from 30-50 hours a week to nothing....NOTHING. We've had maybe 6 jobs in the past 5 years nothing. Every job I've had since then has either gone under or I was let go because I was the new guy and they had too much costs in labor. Combine that with 2 years of 10 applications a week and not getting a single call back....almost applied and McD's a year ago. Asked how much I'd make and the manager said maybe 4 hours in a 7 day week for the first 6 months to a year....F THAT. Wouldn't have even covered the gas to work...no point in a job that you'd make -$15 for two weeks work....that's negative 15.
As far as my trade and tech are concerned -- I've always been naturally skilled at almost everything I've done. Not bragging, but that's always how things have been for me. My biggest weakness is I have crap social skills -- I have a bad tendency to see everything with pure logic and over analyze things, completely missing things like sarcasm and subtle hints. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out I had Asperger's.
Rom development and rom building (kanging) are two different things entirely. If you're already running Ubuntu (preferably 12.04) I could have you building a rom in no time at all.
Its nothing more following the official build setup guide (assloads of copy/paste )
making a directory for the rom
open a terminal to that directory
"repo init -u https://github.com/PAC-man/android.xml -b cm-10.1"
"repo sync"
". build-pac.sh mb886 -jX" where X is the number of cores your PC has
Do something else for a few hours
Check PC -- if the rom fully compiled then you've just kanged PAC-man
To update, go to rom's directory, "make clean", step 5, step 6.
Adding support for other roms is as simple as seeing what other devs\kangers did in the project's vendor directory as well as in the device/common-device directories. It really is simple once you've done it a few times -- first time or two can be a real b*tch.
My only real gripe with linux is some of the apps either just don't seem finished or are just good enough to do the job but look like crap. For me, other than gaming, I've been able to find a suitable replacement for all my common, everyday needs from emulation to video encoding to word processing.
As far as tutorials go....I just use Google, XDA search, and rootzwiki.com search...between the three I can pretty much find anything I need to know. Power searching is the unwritten requirement in all the tutorials I've ever read. Being able to scour the net for odd bits of information is a necessary skill to kang or dev roms.
//Lack of search skills is a reason some of us power users get upset and pissy around here...myself anyways...I can't tell ya how many help questions I've answered where I LITERALLY copy/pasted the error code in the help post to the google search box in Firefox and the FIRST LINK the fix....also why I don't answer the same question more than 2 or 3 times....search just our forums and you might find the answer. :whodathunkit: (// isn't at you, my mind likes to rant in the mornings )

skeevydude said:
Couldn't tell ya where to learn Java from -- I don't know it. I'm starting to learn it myself...meaning today....but it really depends on the weather on what I can for the rest of the day -- lost internet for most of yesterday during a thunderstom and since another one is rolling in I might have to shut my machines down. Also why I haven't been on a whole lot the past 2 days. After today its supposed to be clear skies ahead.
I've just been lucky cause even though I don't know Java, its still pretty human readable and easy to figure out what I need to do when I merge code.
For a bit of help Java=Apps, C++=Kernel/Hardware. Not necessarily 100% true, but for the most part it is.
If you wanna get into writing apps for making money then start with Java....the only reason why I'm starting with Java over C++. As much as I'd like to learn C++\Bionic to help with bug fixes for the kernel, hardware libraries, etc, I'm flat broke and can't find a decent job -- Java and a good idea could fix that. Combine my current situation with the fact that in 10-15 years I won't even be able to do my current line of work (construction is a young man's job) so I need to buckle down and learn a new trade that doesn't involve 8-12 hours work in the sun, crap pay, sore body at the end of every day, and no real job security or benefits.
If anyone reading the above is thinking that I'm thinking I could be the next App Millionaire...I'm not. I'd be happy just to break the poverty line (1-3 thousand a month or more than 18k a year)....cost of living isn't that high in Arkansas luckily. I'd hate to live in NYC\Random Big City where a crappy 1 room apartment's rent is a high as a high-end middle class home here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
spy_1134 said:
If you guys could post some websites/threads with some tutorials or further reading so I can know what I am getting myself into, that would be awesome. I have always hoped that one day I'd be able to help you guys out with getting bugs squashed and features added.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in high school but I REALLY don't want to work at a fast food place, so this like a good way to earn so change. Once I get out, this will (hopefully) become more of a hobby for the next 25 yrs as I'm training to become an Electrician. Then when I'm done and in the early retirement that seems to come with many people in that field I'll hop back onto this. I also second that idea with the idea of website tutorials lol.

Blackest Pain said:
I'm in high school but I REALLY don't want to work at a fast food place, so this like a good way to earn so change. Once I get out, this will (hopefully) become more of a hobby for the next 25 yrs as I'm training to become an Electrician. Then when I'm done and in the early retirement that seems to come with many people in that field I'll hop back onto this. I also second that idea with the idea of website tutorials lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Electrician is a good trade to get into. I wouldn't mind being an electrician actually. Especially since I know enough contracters, house flippers, and landlords that are always needing electrical done and hate paying the electrician (they can pretty much write their own check cause you GOTTA have that LICENSE to touch ANY wire)....why I always built my gates to run on a 12V solar setup (more reliable and I don't need a license to mount a panel and hook it up to a car battery; not to mention a grand cheaper).
Look, I'd post some links, but the best links are banned from a site like this where ethics matter. I'm broke so I can't afford the ebooks if ya know what I mean...hint, hint...find good looking book with positive reviews, google search "name of book .epub", ????, profit.
//see my above post for a quick glance at what McD's offered me....TL : DR version....negative 15 a week cause I factored in a thing called gas money.