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Hello, I am new to this forum so I suppose I will give a brief bio. I earned an Associates Degree in Computer Science from the Community College of the Air Force while serving on Active Duty as a "Computer Programmer" from 2004 to 2010. Most of my duties on the job involved website development, server side scripting and databases. I started learning network engineering and security in the past 3 or 4 years. I'm familiar with being a go-to for fixing an unrelated FUBAR project from a random language where you have to just google the syntax and methods until you get the results your boss asked for. I've also dabbled in .NET and so on.
Anyway, it is safe to say I know enough to be dangerous or better with everything from legacy assembly code to the trends of today while I have no clear specialty of expertise at this point. I am going to use the Post 9/11 Montgomery GI Bill to go back to college. I should know what I want to do by now but it is a unique opportunity where I may as well do any one thing as another. I like to avoid personal conversations and keep it about the development on forums. I got a nook color 1.01 and came here for some tips on rooting it, now here we are. I am interested to know what particular needs there may be for an intermediate developer that has no strict preference with where I begin just as long as I don't need very expensive new hardware, unless I wanted it anyway.
So, hello and nice to meet you. I look forward to finding a way to contribute.
Canary19 said:
Hello, I am new to this forum so I suppose I will give a brief bio. I earned an Associates Degree in Computer Science from the Community College of the Air Force while serving on Active Duty as a "Computer Programmer" from 2004 to 2010. Most of my duties on the job involved website development, server side scripting and databases. I started learning network engineering and security in the past 3 or 4 years. I'm familiar with being a go-to for fixing an unrelated FUBAR project from a random language where you have to just google the syntax and methods until you get the results your boss asked for. I've also dabbled in .NET and so on.
Anyway, it is safe to say I know enough to be dangerous or better with everything from legacy assembly code to the trends of today while I have no clear specialty of expertise at this point. I am going to use the Post 9/11 Montgomery GI Bill to go back to college. I should know what I want to do by now but it is a unique opportunity where I may as well do any one thing as another. I like to avoid personal conversations and keep it about the development on forums. I got a nook color 1.01 and came here for some tips on rooting it, now here we are. I am interested to know what particular needs there may be for an intermediate developer that has no strict preference with where I begin just as long as I don't need very expensive new hardware, unless I wanted it anyway.
So, hello and nice to meet you. I look forward to finding a way to contribute.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can start from building yourself a most powerful i7 (Ubuntu, or whatever your flavor) Linux box your $500 can buy. Generate the tool chain(s) for emulator/TI OMAP36xx SDK. Pull every piece of code published by TI for OMAP 36xx. Study all the free Android/Java/JS development books you can find, subscribe to all Android development forums and to GoogleGroups of the topics and irc channels.
Then, start building the 2.6.32, 2.6.35, 2.6.36 kernels for Android 3.x.
XDA Devs is not exactly the place where the Gurus of Android development explain and do tutelage for newbies, it's the place where they show their results. Read in my blog http://fineoils.blogspot.com about developments for NC and other tablets in condensed form, plus about stuff that is usually of no big interest here. Start from approx. Feb. 2010, this will take some time, lol.
Thank you for the outstanding advice. I have an Ubuntu machine on a first gen Phenom quad core which was starting to collect dust that would be perfect. When I get setup I need to find out what some good starter projects would be. I bet that someone here has a need that has been overlooked because the pros are busy on larger projects and I could take a stab at it. Any ideas?
aludal said:
You can start from building yourself a most powerful i7 (Ubuntu, or whatever your flavor) Linux box your $500 can buy. Generate the tool chain(s) for emulator/TI OMAP36xx SDK. Pull every piece of code published by TI for OMAP 36xx. Study all the free Android/Java/JS development books you can find, subscribe to all Android development forums and to GoogleGroups of the topics and irc channels.
Then, start building the 2.6.32, 2.6.35, 2.6.36 kernels for Android 3.x.
XDA Devs is not exactly the place where the Gurus of Android development explain and do tutelage for newbies, it's the place where they show their results. Read in my blog Can't Quote Links Yet about developments for NC and other tablets in condensed form, plus about stuff that is usually of no big interest here. Start from approx. Feb. 2010, this will take some time, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome! I'm new to Android, so I can't help with anything too deep just yet (used linux exclusively for 7-8 years, so I'm catching on lol), but I can give you a list of a few common issues that people are having that I haven't really seen solved yet.
1. Touchscreen bugs out sometimes, requiring a quick trip to standby and back to fix. Happens to me regardless if I'm OCed or not.
2. System seems to randomly shut off and/or reboot for many. Has happened to me a handful of times, almost always when doing something cpu intensive, like launching Winamp or opening too many DolphinHD tabs.
3. Wifi for many people seems really flaky. Mine works fine 99% of the time.
4. Youtube doesn't like when you log in, requires a cache wipe to relaunch.
5. Screen sensitivity gets weird near the edges. There is an adb method to force a blind recalibration, but seems to have widely varying results.
6. Pull up menus on many apps ends up with white on white text making it unreadable.
I have no idea if any of those are relevant to you or if anyone else is already working on them or not. Hell, some might already be fixed in Froyo or even Eclair. Those are just a few things I see many posts about. I should mention that I'm on 1.0.1 rooted with no other tweaks. I also have a horrid case of strep throat and have been quarantined in my room alone on heavy meds for a few days, so I could be way off or babbling. Anyways, welcome to the forums and sorry for typing so much. I know I'm not nearly the novelist that that blog pimpin dude is. ;P
This is all good information and I appreciate the reply. I hope you get well soon. Strep throat and strep meds are no joke and you are extremely lucid all things considered, so don't worry one bit about that. You are running the same system that I have so please feel free to keep in touch with me about any issues, and I will let you know if I find a fix.
If you have some spare time I'd like to ask you some questions about using Linux for an exclusive PC; I keep juggling it with Windows rather than taking the time to find a fix for common petty problems like running Netflix. Right now my lazy fix for that is virtualboxing Windows.
Thanks again and feel better!
miemens said:
Welcome! I'm new to Android, so I can't help with anything too deep just yet (used linux exclusively for 7-8 years, so I'm catching on lol), but I can give you a list of a few common issues that people are having that I haven't really seen solved yet.
1. Touchscreen bugs out sometimes, requiring a quick trip to standby and back to fix. Happens to me regardless if I'm OCed or not.
2. System seems to randomly shut off and/or reboot for many. Has happened to me a handful of times, almost always when doing something cpu intensive, like launching Winamp or opening too many DolphinHD tabs.
3. Wifi for many people seems really flaky. Mine works fine 99% of the time.
4. Youtube doesn't like when you log in, requires a cache wipe to relaunch.
5. Screen sensitivity gets weird near the edges. There is an adb method to force a blind recalibration, but seems to have widely varying results.
6. Pull up menus on many apps ends up with white on white text making it unreadable.
I have no idea if any of those are relevant to you or if anyone else is already working on them or not. Hell, some might already be fixed in Froyo or even Eclair. Those are just a few things I see many posts about. I should mention that I'm on 1.0.1 rooted with no other tweaks. I also have a horrid case of strep throat and have been quarantined in my room alone on heavy meds for a few days, so I could be way off or babbling. Anyways, welcome to the forums and sorry for typing so much. I know I'm not nearly the novelist that that blog pimpin dude is. ;P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Greetings all, hope the weekend is going smashing for everyone. As we all know, B&N has been very... lax (obvious) in their promises to update the NC with more user-friendly capabilities. For lack of a better phrase, I've had enough. Today, 2-26-11, I sent B&N a rather abrasive email in the hopes to start some form of open discussion, express my opinion, and inform them that they've got some 'splainin' to do.
Below is the email I sent, although I have edited my name and phone number that I included, for security purposes. As a note, if the email I receive in return uses the phrase "we are working on it as fast as we can," "please be patient," or some other pandering jargon, I do plan to resend this every Saturday until I either receive a response that has some weight behind it, or receive a Cease and Desist writ from them.
Why? For the simple fact that I want them to keep their promise and provide us, the user, with the better experience that we are requesting.
I will continue to update this thread with any following information that comes my way.
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Saved for whatever happens later.
Wow... honestly i think that letter is the worst thing ive read. Honestly, i dont care that they havent updated it. Its rather a blessing how unlocked they left the device. Fact of the matter is that the Nook is a eReader, a highly over powered eReader, that they built and developed ontop of the android system for the ease of use and not having to build a entire custom OS.
Honestly the nook color is the best 250 ive spent in a long time. If i wanted a "tablet" i would have bought a gtab or galaxy. Its pretty common practice for companies nowadays to delay updating software. Honestly why update software when 1: it works.. pretty well too 2: technology is moving faster then software. why update a outdated device?
Its up to you and me and the android developers to keep old devices updated with new and fun software. Thats why so many developers do what they do without making a income off it while spending hours and hours on it. In the end, Barnes and Noble is a business that needs money and updating the nook is not going to bring in the big bucks, if any at all.
Sent from one of those missing Droids or Nook Color on HoneyComb
Your letter.
I assume in part you posted this here because you want feedback.
First, I am in no way affiliated with B&N. I am a user just like you.
I am extremely happy with the Nook.
I like it precisely because they made left it (probably unintentionaly) booting first to the SD.
This in turn has allowed the devs wide open to make bootable images that can be written to the sd.
I believe the company made some forward looking statements that said they wanted to do more with the device. So far in three months, they have released 3 builds. That's actually remarkable when you consider that unlike the developers here, they have to release rock solid well tested stable builds.
Nookie Froyo is really nice. No doubt CM7 and Honeycomb will soon be also...but in the end they both have more problems than an average user could reasonably accept.
Given that their system is so remarkably open, it is my opinion that there is really no better tablet in the ballpark of it on the price.
As a computer professional, I actualy recommended to my friends on facebook, thst they send B&N execs valentines heart candies expressing unending love.
At the end of the day, in my book, they need not hurry because they have given us the best of both worlds.
Take away the boot order....and I never would have bought it at all.
Meenwhile, at apple, they are taking the walled garden to a whole new level....which can only push up prices 30%....
You'll probably get the standard "Thank you for your email, we're working as has as we can email." Even if they were going to send a real email back, what are they going to respond to? Give specific examples of what your issues you have. "bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet"", doesn't really mean anything.
Why does it matter how their UI is when you can put whatever UI on the thing when its rooted.
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
madfatter said:
why do you even care? with a little effort you can run pretty much anything on it. if others dont want to then so be it, thanks to the wonderful devs, the options are there. so why even waste your time writing letters and arguing with people on here. Barnes and Nobles did a great job with the NC. great hardware and an amazing cost. Dont harras them out of boredom.
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Click to collapse
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
I have to agree with others here.. why do you care, I see you have rooted you Nook Color. Do you prefer (or are waiting on) that B&N deliver something better that what you can have? Get real,... is you rooted NC not enough? B&N does books, and quite well I might add, they don't do tablets. Although they do seem to have out done everyone else.
Product F(RED) said:
I'm confused. You want something that runs the Nook app? So why don't you root it and run the Nook app on top of a normal Android ROM?
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Click to collapse
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Trey_Miller said:
I took an hour and some odd time to drive to work and think about what I would say to the two of you in response to your statements.
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
I fully respect the people here and everywhere else that have put so much time into making the device use more of its potential-- as you'll notice in my sig-line, I'm running a rooted NC-- but my entire point was, and still is, either they need to change their tune, or they need to provide something other than a "we'll be with you in a moment" statement.
Fattychance, I agree with you completely that it is a remarkable speed by which they are working. However, the people here on XDA have managed to, as you say, produce Nookie Froyo, are working on Honeycomb, etc etc, in the same time. If nothing else, the actual B&N dev team could take a page or thirty out of these lads' books and get some stuff done.
However, again, you have missed my point; both of you have.
I'm not looking for a tablet, or more "wow factor" or anything of that sort. They've got a rather infantile UI *thrown* on top of 2.1 as their reader software. Would it hurt to address that singular problem? Hell, as I mentioned, the nook apk runs smoother than their nook UI.
I admit, this looks like I'm simply whining about things I don't like. You know what? I don't care. I've seen more posts on these forums that focus on complaining to the dev teams here about how slow work is being done. I'm at least focusing on the people who get *paid* to do this, and asking "Where's the beef?" Where is the work you lot are promising is "just around the corner"?
Three months is more than enough for them to upgrade from eclair to froyo, give the device the few added things people were promised from day one. Am I asking too much? Hell no. I'm asking them to do their job.
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Click to collapse
they have a UI built for putting shortcuts to your books and magazines on your homescreens so you have easy access to your favorite books or favorite magazine, their reader UI is simple and easy to use and their music player although isnt the best music player out there it gets the job done. the average user wouldnt need any more than that and imo they did a pretty good job at turning android 2.1 into an ereader OS
Trey_Miller said:
Madfatter, why do I even care? Because my daddy always taught me that if you say something, you keep your word. Why should they (meaning B&N) be any different? Also, the nice thing about my job is that I've got this nifty thing called "free time" that comes along with the whole graveyard shift work, so I'm not even wasting my time. However, it's not just that, it's also the fact that, not everyone who owns an NC even comprehends what rooting means. I'm speaking for them, not for you and me and everyone else that is a techie.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with you in that aspect that they should keep their word but i also disagree with the fact they they should update it to froyo or add anything to the user experience
non techies dont need these features in an ereader if its anything they(meaning B&N) should just fix bugs in their system
if they update it to froyo they will be requested to include flash 10.1 and all other goodies froyo includes and that can actually degrade the user experience more than enhance it
flash although necessary for a full web browsing experience it isnt required for a good one
flash kills battery faster than anything else even on wifi(steve jobs got this one right) and it can slow down your device big time(although it might not happen it still is a possibility)
if you want to request a feature for the average user you should request a youtube app or something, non techies will love youtube capabilities on their ereader and the youtube app will not degrade the user experience one bit
and i apologize for my grammar but i really dont care about grammar because this is the internet and on the internet grammar doesnt matter
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't? Like I told madfatter, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for every person out there that either doesn't have the knowledge of how to root, doesn't have the courage to take the chance at bricking their device, or simply wants to hold the company accountable for a promise they made.
I posted this here because, as a community, XDA is supposed to be not only here to push tech to its limits and beyond, but also to get the most out of the tech. Well, I'm trying to get the most out of the tech for people who aren't ever going to root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
again to people who dont root, its an ereader NOT a tablet
compare the NC to the Nook or the kindle feature to feature and i can guarantee you that the nook color has the most features for the tech
it has alot of unnessary features for an ereader but it has them so it can be the best in its category(ereader)
if you look at some reviews of this device you will notice that they all say that this device is a great contender to an actual tablet
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Trey_Miller said:
*sigh* Tell me, F(Red), what makes you think I haven't?
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The fact that I'm not a mind-reader. Also, the way you worded your original post implies that you haven't. You said you're not looking for a tablet, but rather a single-purpose device. But that's not the point. If you're not happy with it, sell it. Most people are. We like that it's open and can be turned into a cheap multi-purpose tablet. There's a fine line between showing dissatisfaction and insult. Typing up a grammatically correct email that insults the developers is not the way to go about it. I hope you realize that they still have your money, whether or not you decide to sell it. So you might as well make use of it.
Trey_Miller said:
Like I said, I'm not doing this for me, but for those that either don't know how, or don't want to take the risk. Yes, Flash is a battery-waster, a youtube apk would work good, etc etc. I'm not asking them to go out and re-invent the wheel, I'm just asking them to do what they said they would do. If all they do is make the UI a little less glitchy, update where you can load your own books and files onto the main screen, and toss a youtube app on there, I'll be proud as punch, happy as a pig in slop, take your pick at sayings.
As for your grammar luigi, I have no problem with it. I was merely calling him on his statement of "worst thing ever read".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
again i also agree that they should update their ui but not to really add features but to fix glitches and bugs(maybe add a youtube app but im running honeycomb so this doesnt affect me to much due to me already having youtube capabilities) and about the load your own books point
if they allowed a user to do that they will lose money
now i dont know if they are selling the nook at a negative or at a positive income but i do know that their intention is to sell B&N books to users using the nook color, and allowing people to side load books onto their device means that pirates can load free books on their nook and use the nook app to read a book B&N had no profit on(im not saying everyone is a pirate but this gives the people who are the freedom to do so) so from a business stand point that would be a bad idea
now i do understand why this would be a requested feature but even if you had kindle books you bought if you could side load them whats stopping you from just buying kindle books and using it on your nook instead of buying B&N books
Trey_Miller said:
For starters, Altimax, I'm sorry my grasp of the American English language disgusts you more than anything you have read (although I sincerely doubt that, due to your own grammatical mistakes). Upon reading your post, I realized that you had completely missed the point of my email, which was telling them to man up and do something, or revise the statement that NC spokespersons in the B&N stores tell people. As for why update an outdated device, gee, perhaps it's because they have repeatedly stated they were?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may have missed something, but I did go and re-read Alitmax98's reply to you, and didn't see anything mentioning your grasp of the English language. I believe he was referring to the content of your letter, not the grammar or formatting. That would be petty. On a related note, I didn't see anything grammatically wrong with his which would warrant your criticism either.
You seem overly sensitive. It's always nice when a company does what they say, but your letter does come across as if your Nook is an unusable paperweight with the potential to harm children. It's really not that bad.
I suggest you take a deep breath, download a nice book, and relax. If you really want to take someone to task, go buy a Samsung Moment from Sprint...then your rage will be justified.
Hexapus, *chuckle* I appreciate your response. I fully admit that my email was rather prickly and hostile, hell I admit it in the first post. As to the english language, I purposefully 'misunderstood' it, as I have a low threshold for people who claim that an email is worse than some pieces of sellable "fiction" (Twilight, anyone?). The fact of the matter is, everyone and their neighbor is blowing words of adoration up B&N's collective arse for the reader, and anyone who complains is told to either suck it up or shove off. The entire purpose for the email was to get them to know that there was at least one voice out there that was saying, "Okay, I see what you have, but you promised all this other stuff, too. So what the hell is up?"
Is it unusable? To some extent, yes. I'm not talking about how it won't do my paperwork, feed me, and tuck me in (I suppose it *could* do all those, but whoever created the apk would have to be shot), I'm talking about how, every once in a while, I'd like to have a piece of technology that *doesn't* require me to have to rewrite the system just to make it work up to spec.
Luigi, you bring up a very good point about sideloaded pirated books. Although let me put this to you, if you're concerned that a person is going to sideload a book onto an open device that is easily rooted so that you can run the kindle apk along side the nook apk, not to mention half a dozen other things, and whatever else you might throw on there, your line of logic is just a little, mmm, off kilter.
But hey, whatevs. I'm going radio silent until I get a response either way. If anyone else wants to criticize me for speaking up, that's your perogative. Just as it's my perogative to call you an ignorant greedy arse for not thinking about those people who won't or can't root.
Everyone has a right to their opinion but not everyone is right all the time.
The users that aren't ready to put Nookie on an SD card...need that dumbed down UI.
Even if when they open up an app store and move to honeycomb...they will probably keep the UI crippled.
They aren't telling lies and they made it nice for those of us with the skills to do something more with it. It's really such a rare thing to have happen.
I want the Nook held up as an example of openness that helps fuel creativity and progress.
Does the tab have Honeycomb yet? Gingerbread?
Trey_Miller said:
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Hi, I'm curious as to when or, rather, if there is going to be an update to the Nook Color OS before the end of 2011 Q1. The reason why I'm asking is because if your company is having a hard time developing the update, there are people out there who have managed to make the NC more responsive, more usable, and give it a better feel than the overly simplistic, infantile-esque UI that it currently has. I'm also asking, because I purchased the NC for my wife and I under the assumption (as did many others, apparently) that your company would be prompt with updates, bringing more user capabilities, and a better experience, while keeping to the theme of "a reader, not an all-purpose tablet".
Honestly, while I know I can't return it to get my money back, I'm seriously considering selling it so I can get something that simply runs the Nook app, as it works better than the shoddily-thrown-together program running on the NC.
Make up your mind, please. Either show us some proof that you are planning on doing an update before the end of March, or just fess up already and let people stop getting their hopes up. After all, if visibly empty promises is what your company is good for, then why am I continuing to support you with my business?
~Trey Miller
(850) 555-5555
Avid student, reader, writer, and severely disgruntled customer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For starter, the NC is an eReader, and it is just functioning fine. Their app is amazing and work as expected.
What you did after rooting it is your problem, not NC. If you complaint that it doesn't work like a true tablet, then I have news for you. It is NOT.
If you need a tablet that function like it is a tablet out of the package, then go get a Xoom.
Trey,
Thanks for your post as it obviously got people thinking. The answers you seek are on the BN developer boards. I think they said June for the app store and software update. I know many non power users on Android and many of them hate it. The reason is, it does not function as well consistently as people expect it to. With the Nook, it does. This is important to many users and worth a wait in theirs and Barnes and Noble's mind. When the update comes, it will make the device smootther and give it more features. The froyo and Gingerbread ports here though wonderful, do not make it more stable. They have good devs, but I am not sure they are as good as the ones here. All this equates to more time for them to get it right. Our nagging will not speed up the process. You did buy a tablet from a company that makes books after all. If you want speedy updates, buy one from a computer company. Only, don't buy an Archos, they are notoriously slow with updates. On a lighter note, BN must have done something right. Look how much the interface of Honeycomb looks like the BN interface.
First I'd like to start off by saying this is in no way meant to start trouble with Motorola by any means, you guys are an amazing company that make some amazing products. However, as a fan of Motorola and a consumer here are my views and what I assume are the views of many other users. Both people who like root and prefer stock.
I'd like to start by thanking aggiechase37 who's post about Motorola opening up and supporting non-oem ROMs gave me the final push to make and post this thread. If you have not seen it please give it a quick read HERE, and second thanks to everyone who takes the time to read this, if you can please respond with your thoughts on how I feel, and if you agree please post to show your support, hopefully if the support network is large enough Motorola will see the importance and a real benefit to following through with some of what will be said. So tweet this link, give everyone a link to it, and have everyone you know register here at the Motorola support forums, so that they to can show Motorola how big of a community we are, and what we can do with them!
Now to get into the long part... enjoy!
__________________________________________________________________
Thanks Motorola for the Droid 3, it was a great choice to continue the Droid series on your part, I loved my Droid 1, and still use it everyday, and I must say with all the neat features and upgrades you packed in really make it a true phone to marvel at. However, it does have it's shortcomings I'm sure you know more than all of us of all the little quirks in it, and I'm sure your working on some fixes for everyone so we can all really enjoy what this device has to offer.
So to start out, I have a few main points:
Customer Support
Developer side/Developer community side
Opening up a little
OEM supported ROMs
Lets start with Customer Support you guys have a great service record from me, I have never had any problems with contacting you about issues or anything, all of my experiences with you have been more than great, and for that I'd say you are doing a great job. However there are some people who don't get those same experiences, you guys have a wonderful network but there is always room for improvement, just keep that in mind for the future, the best survive and the average fail, so please be the best, because I'd rather have you not fail... The remain aspects of customer support are apart of the Developer Side and the Opening up a little sections below.
Next, the Developer side/Developer community side of things along with the Opening up a little. I understand the reason for you and others to not want the Developer community and to keep your phones and devices purely how you make them and nothing more, but this is old news, no one today wants this. Look at Apple, they are making suits out of their @$$. It's rather annoying to everyone, they are locked down, and since Android was introduced and your Droid 1 launched the Android world has exploded, and the philosophy behind Android is Open Source, so by you transistioning to more of the closed and 'locked' bootloader policy it's making you look more and more at what was the past in the mobile world, sure Apple is still here, but I assume that most of the people who have tried Android from Apple love the experience, and if Apple doesn't make some major changes they will simply become average, while Android becomes the best. So first some stats for you, as I'm sure you know already, but some may not, but there are over 500,000 new Android activations every single day! That's a big number, and it is rising. It has been proven look at just about every single Android device released, they are all rooted for the most part, whether its supported by the manufacturer or not. So root is going to happen no matter if you like it or not, but there are pros and cons to each way of looking at it.
so first the con side, root can be bad, it can ruin a brand new device and steal users info and all other kinds of nasty things, but root is also a nice tool, its good for all of us who want to truly be unlimted with our phones and devices, I'm not going to preach about all the benefits of root, if you want that I'm sure you can find thousands of other sites and blogs with that infomation, instead I'm going to focus on something root does for all of us. One of the root methods found in Android Froyo [2.2] was the 'rage against the cage' while it was an exploit that let all of us root our devices, it also was a way for true 'hackers' with ILL intentions to harm the people who had no idea and were innocent bystanders. Where as the people who found it simply had to use in order to root a device, they had no intentions of using it to steal identies and credit card infomation or anything else for that matter. But the 'hackers' who did are all piggy backing on everyone with the good intentions. With root not being endorsed it makes it easier for everyone to cause malware and harm to the Android name. Now if root was an exteneded option on Android rage against the cage may not have ever been found or used, because there wouldn't be nearly as many people looking for an exploit in the software. But with everyone looking those who want to use it to do bad things then their life is so much easier. They let us do the work and take the bullet and they get to take what they want. So think about it like this If root was an extra option from the manufacturer there wouldn't be nearly as many people trying to find a way to crack your software and make you look bad. Now root is still not something for everyone, but at least the option for it could and most likely would help Android and the manufacturers in the long haul.
Now onto the final point I have, OEM Supported ROMs I know its something you are first going to say will NEVER happen, but look at it like this, others have openly started to partially get to this stage, for example HTCDEV.com coming soon is the section on how to unlock bootloaders, that is good news and the developer community is happy with all that for now, as its a dynamic change in views which is wonderful news. Sony openly supports it as well, just check out this link Unlocking the boot loader | unlockbootloader.sonyericsson.com right on their site how to do it. Now I have to give you guys credit for trying you enabled an unlockable bootloader on the Xoom and now the Atrix, but I have yet to find details on how to do it from you. I have even called and asked various customer service people, most who had no idea what bootloader even was, and the few that did said that you don't support it and I should not do it, and will lose all warrenty from you. All of which I have no problem with. However it was known you supported the unlock the Xoom, otherwise you wouldn't have put it in, so why have your reps say no it's not supported and can't be done? So my first recomendation is to at least make a site or sub site about how to unlock the 'supported' devices witht he bootloaders, think about it, we don't have to come to you to get the info on how to do it, but if we can it makes you look better to all of us. Now onto the second part. like stated in that thread, with a few variations if you officially support unlockable bootloaders on all devices the developer community will love you and embrace it with open arms and your sales will sky rocket, everyone will buy Motorola over the others because of the new policy, but if you also say hey we support community developer ROMs on our devices not only will everyone love you, we will all pee our pants and praise the h**l out of you for ever! Now I'm sure you wondering how the h**l are we supposed to do that and make sure they all work like they should and deal with the head ache its more work than it will benefit. Well that all depends on how you go about it.
I've got plans all figured out on how you could do this seemlessly and easily with little headache on your part, other than making your devices unlockable. I would post it all, but if you are interested I wouldn't want someone like HTC or Sony stealing them and using them first. So I'm giving you Motorola first dibs on this. I also thought about you in the financial aspect so its not like you wouldn't get anything from this, you would also recieve a nice kickback from people using this service, so extra cash, developer and community wide spread peeing of the pants, love and praise for the ages could all be yours. I know even if you are interested it's not something that would be done next week or month, it would take some time to get it all together after we would iron out the details, but I think the investment on your part would go a long way. Hopefully everyone can show you this by supporting me in this thread. I will be posting links on twitter my twitter ID is @DroidConcepts, So if anyone would like to retweet please do, and tweet it yourself as well. I have also emailed this to Motorola, and within the next few weeks will present this to HTC, Sony, LG, and Google. If you or one of them is interested than great I would be more than thrilled to work with you, and I'm not even asking for any money, just a nice new device here and there.. So any feedback from you Motorola is very much welcomed and appreciated and I look forward to hopefully talking further about this, hopefully over the phone, or maybe a trip to the headquarters....
-Woody
I can be reached at the twitter username: @DroidConcepts or by email at [email protected]
I look forward to your response!
____________________________________________________________
I know this was long, so thank you all for following and reading, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show your support so Motorola can not only see how important this is for all of us and the Android community but for them as well.
Twitter link: https://twitter.com/#!/DroidConcepts/status/102548734499495937
____________________________________________________________________________
I originally posted this here: https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/55945
Please RT and support if you can!
I saw the root thread is getting clogged down with arguments over the cost to benefit ratio involved with the Turbo root.
So is it worth it? What works and what doesn't? Post your thoughts.
I know several people that root for the sole purpose of having WiFi tether, for those I would think that it is worth it!
But has the wifi tether been achieved yet? I've heard that many are having difficulties.
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system. Admittedly, I am not familiar with having root on a write protected system since I have never owned a system that has this. What I do know is that I have no idea how to edit a system image, nor do I feel any obligation to pay $20 to read a tutorial on how to download a linux VM and waste hours of my life failing at editing system files in hopes that I can achieve what I want to achieve. Perhaps to those more experienced with editing major files like that, the $20 is worth it, but I think for the average android user who appreciates root it may not be.
Basketballhero75 said:
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
JulesJam said:
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
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Click to collapse
I support what they are doing and the price they charge.
It's not comparable to sunshine, as they are entirely different products. SunShine's goal is just unlock, the included TempRoot is only there to make it work on phones without root.
I will repost my thoughts that I put in the initial release thread for mofo, and thanks to the OP here for creating a discussion thread, I hate being "that guy" who posts off topic. I rarely see anything on the internet that inspires me to bother writing an opinion, but this topic really struck a chord with me.
Personally, I don't fundamentally think it's wrong to charge for root, despite it being historically developed and distributed for free. That being said, one of the things that has made the android dev community amazing is its dedication to opening the abilities of software and hardware for everyone. This core concept of community development and participation is what has helped shape sites like XDA. Once we start the trend of putting a price tag on it, it starts to get a bit apple smelling in here.
For myself, root by itself, not an unlocked bootloader, on a device that’s about to get an OS upgrade is not worth 20$.That price tag is very broken and again sets a bad example. I REALLY DO empathize and sympathize with hard working devs wanting to get some funds back for their time, but the only 0 day exploit being used here is the price tag for this.
Cheers!
I imagine most of us spend $20 over the course of a month on little extras.. a candy bar, fast food lunch, or bar night with friends... etc
So if you sacrifice those little extras for one month to have root on a device that is basically on your body 24/7, to me, is an easy justification to make.
Coming from rooted phones I had no idea how borked an ad-filled android experience is. Being able to use my phone without any visual intrusions is well worth it.
Also coming from 5.0 on an M8, I really don't mind staying with 4.4.4 if the 5.1 update kills the mofo process. Worse case, Im stuck with root on 4.4.4 until my edge up next March and start this process all over again
YES. You can flash an edited image I don't get why people are complaining about this so much it opens a door that allows for mostly anything you could ask for. Edit Image and reflash with what they want.
I have no problem in principle with charging for root. There's nothing at all wrong with a developer expecting compensation for something that (1) requires a specialized skill set that that developer has and (2) clearly required a great deal of that developer's time. Why should I expect them to give me that for free? It would certainly be nice if they did, but it's not something that's owed to me.
That said, I somewhat regret having paid for this. It's fundamentally different from what most users mean when they refer to "root." Apps that advertise themselves as "root apps" almost uniformly contemplate being able to write to /system on the fly, and the lack of an ability to do so means that my phone—while technically rooted—lacks some pretty basic root functionality.
I would have no problem paying $20 or more for what I'll call "true-root". I'm not a technical guy, so doing all the stuff that's required to basically flash a new image is not something I'm willing to do. In addition, you still have write-protection that's not possible or not easily possible to currently circumvent. When I rooted my Droid Razr Maxx (the 1st and only phone I ever rooted), I basically connected to the phone to my laptop, ran a . bat file and sat back and waited. The end result was a fully rooted phone. There was no questions or concerns about what could or could not run. If the app in question required root, then you knew it would safely work.
Don't get me wrong. I believe this will open the door for more possibilities with the Turbo. I can certainly appreciate the time and effort from all involved to get this to where it is. That being said, for me and me only, I will not be implementing this, as it stands today. That would be my stance even if it was being offered at no cost.
The only reasons I ever rooted my Razr Maxx was to get WiFi Hotspot and Titanium Backup working, so the lack of root for me is an inconvenience, not the end of the world.
The issue is that most members here are used to a certain experience, and then when that experience is different they will complain. When they have to pay for that different experience, they complain more. I personally feel like this is 100% worth $20, especially since it is a license for the program. I'm sure that this will open up a lot of doors for this device soon.
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
this_is_nascar said:
I can appreciate that view on the subject. It's still not going to be for everyone.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your points.
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this approach but your earlier comments were attacking people who didn't object to paying for root out of principal but basically object to paying for what's available right now, as it doesn't give them what they're looking for.
I haven't paid for MOFO yet because it doesn't give me what I'm looking for, which is the ability to install, update and change xposed packages, adaway, etc without having to build and flash a new image every time. I don't have the skills OR the time to do that. I'll be more than happy to pay the $25 I pledged in the root bounty thread if I can get a solution that works for ME.
Like I said, I'm all for devs getting paid to do this, and to be honest, when I read the post about MOFO (before I knew exactly how it worked and what the limitations were), I was relieved that they built the payment mechanism into the solution instead of having to PM hundreds of users and ask for their bounty pledge or for donations on the forum. Moreover, I have a lot of appreciation and respect to people who do these things, whether they charge for it or not. I get all sweaty every time I flash a new ROM, I can't even imagine how much work it is to find these exploits and explore using them for our advantage. It's just that this solution isn't for everyone, at least the way it is now.
Here is how I see it. Maiko1 made a product. This product does exactly what it is designed and advertised to do. Unfortunately, it’s not quite what I’m looking for. If I’m looking for a new car, and I want a car with a sun roof, and someone offers to sell me a car without a sun roof, well, I can decide whether I want to forego that feature and buy that car, or hold off in the hopes that a car with a sunroof will become available. No offense to the dude who made the car without a sunroof at all. I appreciate all the work he put in. It’s just not what I’m looking for. Now, if someone comes along and figures out a way to add a sunroof to the car (adaway, greenify, etc.), I may reconsider and purchase it. But as of now, I don’t really see how those root apps will function without WP off. Don’t they need to be able to write things to the system partition to function properly? I could be wrong on that and if so someone please explain how these root apps will work with the current root option. Just my 2 cents.
Munkee915 said:
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps my situation is a little different than most:
I purchased my first droid turbo the morning it came out at my local Verizon store from a friend who had an extra upgrade. I paid a little over $300 for it after taxes. The phone was great, the processor was powerful, and the battery was superb (although not quite 48 hours with my use). As an unlimited data user on Verizon, the lack of tethering for free got to me, and I decided to sell the 64GB beauty for a sound 550$ to pull in a nice little profit.
Fast forward a couple months:
Scanning the droid forums every now and then, I found a post that stated that root was being explored on the turbo. Many android news websites started reporting it and I was beginning to hate my M7 because of it's consistently inconsistent battery life. So what did I do? On March 22nd, I purchased another Turbo for $450; only because I knew it was getting root. And wouldn't luck have it, that the phone arrived in my mailbox yesterday afternoon just hours before the root method was released.
So I am technically INCLINED, but I would not consider myself technically knowledgeable or resilient in regards to system images. With that being said, I don't really trust myself to futz around with my brand spanking new droid turbo since I have no idea what I would do if something goes wrong. (Murphy's Law) I purchased a phone under the notion of "Root is coming to the Turbo!"; which it did! This is 100% undoubtedly a sufficient method of obtaining root. It just wasn't all that I was expecting; and I do have a bad taste left in my mouth only because I purchased this phone thinking I would be getting what I consider to be "full root".
Now,
Am I blaming the developer in ANY way? Absolutely not. His work is fully appreciated on my end.
Do I think this is a huge step for the Turbo development community? Of course!
Will this root method and usage be worth $20 for some people, but not for others? Yes.
Would I recommend this specific root method to any of my friends here at home? Unfortunately, no.
Look, if a dev wants to collect on their work, then by god let them do it! If I poured my time into an exploit such as this, you can be damn sure that I would ask for some capital in return. But would I charge $20? I honestly don't think I would.
LifeAsADroid said:
Correction: my feeling is "here is the best method available as of now. Meet the dev half way and do some very basic, very minor work if you want this function so bad. Dev brought you 90% of the way there, you do the rest because the dev doesn't have your phone in his hands."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
evastonian said:
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
spinach.chin said:
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691816
It does survive soft reboot. So we can install xposed, and update SU binaries. It automates mounting as R/W after the kernel. So this looks like a solution.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Hello boys and gurls, this is just a way from me to "scream" one frustration I've got since I've started to try custom ROMs on my OP 6T device I own since February this year.
I'm an Android fan and user since back in the 2.3 era, you know, the days when Android names had a "tasty" name that could made you "swallow" one way or another. I remember that on my 1st device, Galaxy one plus, I've encountered 1st time this frustration I'm trying to point now, and that was a semi-bricked device camed from a "bad flash"... Those days are long gone and isn't good to live nostalgic way, because that will stop progress, they say...
About progress, here is where I really wanted to get... In my opinion, with this A/B partition system, Google messed up things so bad that could even get to the point that developing will go down so bad that even "he" will feel it. Sorry to say this Google, but this ain't really a progress regarding development of an Open Source you actually benefit from... I'm a bit frustrated regarding of what this system brings when flashing/testing ROMs for the fine people developers are. Because I can imagine this messed up way of do things by bringing up A/B up in development will lower the testers and beta testers to a point where only a few users will have the guts and most important time to actually test a custom ROM... And that's just because of this "idiotic" thing you bought up with latest Android versions...
Like I've said in title, this manifest is made for all the ones who feel the same about wasted time testing and failing when comes about something that you, Google, benefit.
Regarding anyone who wants to add anything about this or maybe just to make the required number of posts so he can use the forum as he wants (hello to all this new Android newcomers BTW), feel free to discuss the subject, or point finger at me, at me a person who thinks that this new system (not a flawless one as Google intended to be) is pure crap that will make lots of devs or testers to just quit be part of this awesome life that Android brings ...
I agree and disagree. I think the A/B partitions are good for non-root users and those are the 99.5% of people with a smart phone.
For root users it is a pain in the ass however, I never really had any major problems with A/B layout because you can always flash back to stock.
I dont like it but not enough to make a big deal over.
Scott said:
I agree and disagree. I think the A/B partitions are good for non-root users and those are the 99.5% of people with a smart phone.
For root users it is a pain in the ass however, I never really had any major problems with A/B layout because you can always flash back to stock.
I dont like it but not enough to make a big deal over.
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Well as I've said, it kills the mood to test/use/flash customs because you can end up with a soft brick (or worse) more easily than before.
chasemyass said:
Well as I've said, it kills the mood to test/use/flash customs because you can end up with a soft brick (or worse) more easily than before.
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Yes, this is true but if you are careful you can avoid 99% of the issues. Im not saying your point is not valid but I am asking that you look at it from OEM / GOOGLE side.
They used to have updates, if bad, brick phones. Now the phone can roll back to the last known good operating system without issue if OTA corrupts boot.
Its a tough pill to swallow because it benefits and hurts different people in different ways.
Scott said:
Yes, this is true but if you are careful you can avoid 99% of the issues. Im not saying your point is not valid but I am asking that you look at it from OEM / GOOGLE side.
They used to have updates, if bad, brick phones. Now the phone can roll back to the last known good operating system without issue if OTA corrupts boot.
Its a tough pill to swallow because it benefits and hurts different people in different ways.
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Well maybe you can get to a back point where all was good during a flash, but not if you are rooted. At least I never managed to do it and ended up with using msm, unlocking bl, flash twrp, etc. That's a waste of time tbh beside the fact that if you want to actually test ROMs is better (safer) to play on a smartphone you don't use day by day... This is where it hurts on some "flash'ohoolics" that wants to test more than one cooked ROM to see what's best for him, like I always did.
Google doesn't care of custom roms. Even if Android is allegedly open source, the reality is that the Android environment (certification process, filesystem design, even bootloader security and access) is meant to make custom roms and above all root access more and more difficult to implement.
That explain all changes made to Android and future ones. Google stated several times that simple root access is not legit and is dangerous for the user. Especially now that phones are more and more used for very critical usage as banking, payment, car opening and starting and so on. The chain of identification and legal responsibility will lead more and more to tight closed phones even on Android.
Striatum_bdr said:
Google doesn't care of custom roms. Even if Android is allegedly open source
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Android isn't open source, AOSP is. Android = AOSP + proprietary closed source blobs.
grt67DFqyu said:
Android isn't open source, AOSP is. Android = AOSP + proprietary closed source blobs.
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That only proves my point, proprietary is badly compatible with custom rom, and needs many Dev effort... Until time when those efforts won't be enough or too heavy to be done.
This belongs in some Google Android dev forum regarding the architecture. Or, feel free to get hired by them and influence them anyway you please.
Striatum_bdr said:
Google doesn't care of custom roms.....The chain of identification and legal responsibility will lead more and more to tight closed phones even on Android.
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I can partially agree with you about Google, because the good thing about an open source is that you can "borrow" some modifications made by others, so closing up or limiting the development isn't such a bright ideea, but that is just my humble opinion.
Regarding the closed phones you mention, well that brings me back to the point where jailbreak was an intense way to do things and I did once on one of my old iPhone 4, and that just because I wanted to customize it a bit more, as I was getting bored of it.
Beside that, I really think that if we manage to read, pay attention to details and act like a conscious person, we all know what unlocking BL and rooting can do regarding our precious smartphones. But if you know that and still use your rooted smartphone to save delicate things and/or credentials regarding your bank account and so on, can't really blame anyone else for it... This ain't about security, because I can think that we most users agree that's something beyond us, but more like annoying adds, customize more the look of your gadged and last, but not least, trying to squeeze as much as it can be done from it when comes to whatever you do with it...
I still stick with the point I've started this discussion thread, that A/B partition sucks, even if Google hides it behind a safer window towards using the gadget... Sometime I think that all this pushing forward with all modifications made by Google, behind any reason, is just a road to make it difficult to use it without a ROM agreed by them...