[Q] iPhone 4: CDMA vs. GSM

[Q] iPhone 4: CDMA vs. GSM - Off-topic

I know probably most of you folks on here are users of something other than an iPhone, and probably many of you are Android users like me, so this isn't any kind of iPhone vs. Android thing, but just a general thoughts thread.
I'm trying to figure out the bigger picture here about Apple and them introducing a CDMA version of their phone. It's not that "going with Verizon" per se really surprises me, given how big a company Verizon is, but Apple surely had to know in advance that one serious downside of putting out a CDMA product meant no simultaneous telco and data capability, unlike how it is on a GSM network. Ads to this effect have already started appearing by from AT&T, which means the ads were well in the pipeline and so this is clearly something AT&T knew would be the case.
A lot of folks out there have been complaining about Apple basically having a somewhat "unhealthy" relationship (some might call it a "fixation") with AT&T, so here's the thing: given the saturation that the Android platform now has, what is Apple's motivation and secondly, what do you folks think about the situation?
(And no, I'm not looking for a "Well, I wouldn't own an iPhone so I don't care" type of answer.)

Obviously, more Android devices selling in the last fiscal quarter has a huge big fat part of of the reason.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

It's probably as simple as having their product on both of the largest carriers in the U.S.
They get a chance to make more money and brainwash more people.

I dunno. It's just that, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, this just really weirds me out.
At least in this sense, GSM is the superior technology (it is in other ways, but that's another matter) and so, at least in this way, AT&T has the better network. It would totally make sense for them to push that. And obviously both AT&T and Apple knew about this kind of limitation (like I said earlier). So, Apple in a way is basically playing AT&T against Verizon. They're still making the whole widget and so this isn't a licensing thing here.
In a number of respects, Android is superior to iOS, and surely the whole EULA model from Google is better than the one from Apple (from the perspective of us end users). Apple isn't changing anything else, but now they are arguably selling a lesser-capable version of the iPhone. Moreover, given their push of the Droid, Verizon is kind of the king of Android phones. There's also a LOT of general information out there and (I think) a number of knowledge-empowered smart phone users out there who, particularly if they're using Android (or are really into Blackberry) aren't going to switch to an iPhone and are even less likely to switch to AT&T to get the somewhat-better version.
I'm just wondering if this is Apple going after AT&T with the leverage they're expecting to be generated through Verizon to get better terms, or perhaps force the issue on coverage issues... I dunno, it's not that I'm into some kind of grand conspiracy theory here; I just think there's more than meets the eye.

I literally think they want to sell as many handsets as possible to make the most amount of money. Could you imagine if they made an iphone compatible with Tmobile 3G how many people would defect to Tmobile because of the plan cost reductions? Maybe if Apple is still working closely with ATT they don't want to introduce a competitive version that has the same GSM technologies, so they decided to go with CDMA because it is a whole different technolgy altogether.
Either way, I don't care and I will never own an apple product. This is the most discussion about Apple I have partaken in to date. Good day.

You're over analyzing this. It really is as simple as Apple wanting to sell more iPhones. Of course having leverage against At&t makes the cream filling better tasting.
As for your Verizon Droid statement, what they're hoping is users without any smartphones will jump on the iPhone. I've seen this personally on a large scale.
Both of my housemates are on Verizon with crappy flip phones. Verizon released the iPhone and they BOTH took the plunge.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I think it is mainly due to Apple being greedy.
A small part of it also is Verizon has a stronger presence in certain states/regions of the country and people that tried iPhones with AT&T left there preferred phone due to poor coverage.
Sent from my GSBv1.7-ERIS using XDA App

Related

[Q] Why Captivate and not Vibrant (or other Galaxy S phones)?

So I recently purchased a Captivate, what got me to buy it was how it DID NOT look like an Iphone. The vibrant just looks like an Iphone(although I've been eying it for a while since I live in Canada and Bell offered the one with the front facing camera, is it really that useful?).
I'm just curious on what got you guys to choose the Captivate.

Cause the AT&T nexus one is hard to find for under 500 bucks lol
But honestly the 4 inch screen and cause its the only android handset with a bright future on at&t and i hate iphones with a passion
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ahyl said:
So I recently purchased a Captivate, what got me to buy it was how it DID NOT look like a Vibrant (although I've been eying it for a while since I live in Canada and Bell offered the one with the front facing camera, is it really that useful?).
I'm just curious on what got you guys to choose the Captivate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well I am not sure what kind of Q is this but we have captivate avaialable on att and not vibrant and hence we chose Captivate !!!
rsmith675 said:
Cause the AT&T nexus one is hard to find for under 500 bucks lol
But honestly the 4 inch screen and cause its the only android handset with a bright future on at&t and i hate iphones with a passion
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
always nice to hear from people like me who hate 'iphone with passion' good one !!1!! I just pity on the idiots who praise iphone in front of me after seeing my captivate

I could have gone with either T-Mob or AT&T the deciding factor for me was the Amazon deal on the Cappy for a penny. 1 Penny VS 100 dollars. was easy decision.

FAN + high end android phone
Also, it looks the best (the carbon fiber back matches my bike ).

I have to agree with both statements of both the iphone look of the vibrant and the absolute disgust of the iphone itself. I've already converted some ppl to android and completely shamed some iphone 4 owners with the amazing captivate. And when ppl see my phone they know its not an idumb unlike my friend who owns a vibrant. She has the hardest time having vibrant in plain site and ppl asking if its the new iphone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I upgraded to this from a Samsung Impression. I loved my Impression. I never had any issues with it like others had described. It had the same AMOLED screen technology, and amazing battery life. Any Samsung I've owned, whether it's been a phone or a camera has been great. So they've earned my business. They didn't disappoint me this time either with my Captivate. It's fast, it's light, it does great on battery life (I can go a day and a half without a full charge unlike I could with my Samsung Blackjack) and the screen is bright and vibrant just like I expected.

impression had a amoled screen? didn't know that but anyways well the 16 GB internal storage is one reason the other is that i couldn't switch to T-Mo

im not leaving AT&T, i had an upgrade available and its the first high end android device they offered. plus i was getting tired of how blackberry was so behind with everything.

cachookaman said:
im not leaving AT&T, i had an upgrade available and its the first high end android device they offered. plus i was getting tired of how blackberry was so behind with everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 got rid of my bb bold 9700. Love this phone so far minus the GPS issue. Nothing like getting direction the old fashion way, till its fix.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

y this
i was a tmobile subscriber b4! i moved to att because of the att family plan we have and i didnt like the way vibrant looks(esp. at the back). my plan was to get the iphone 4, but the deathgrip issue broke out plus lots of other factors made me pick the cappy. im very happy to pick this over ip4. i wish i waited a bit longer though to get the .01$ captivate.

labbu63 said:
impression had a amoled screen? didn't know that but anyways well the 16 GB internal storage is one reason the other is that i couldn't switch to T-Mo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya learn something new everyday.

i was tired of my bb's outdated operation.. was considering an iphone.. but this phone came HIGHLY reccomended from an executive at ATT that i know well... and referred to this phone as the "iphone killer"... love it so far.

My friend had the Vibrant on T-mo and told me, "Yknow, AT&T is getting basically the same phone, it's called the Captivate." My contract came up for renewal and they offered me the phone for $99. I couldn't say no. I like the idea of a phone running an open source operating system that anyone can tinker with. I've never liked Apple and their iOS with all of their restrictions.

I was actually contemplating making the move to T-mobile as they have cheaper plans and the service is about the same as AT&T in my area. Still, after holding both phones, the build quality and the overall look of the phone was much better with the Captivate IMO, so I decided to stick with AT&T for now and picked one up.
I am now waiting on the G2 and whatever the Emerald turns out to be for T-mobile this fall and may make the jump at that point.

I'm actually not enthralled with the overall look of the Captivate, but that's probably because I came from the Pure, and could see how AT&T has been influencing the design of these phones, and not necessarily for the better. I've attached a picture that shows what I mean better. If I removed the branding, you might have a hard time telling which phone is which.
But I did buy a Captivate, but only because I got ~$300 off from AT&T, T-mobile gets horrible reception both where I live and work, and I knew before I bought it that I would be able to undo the vast majority of AT&T's raping of this otherwise amazing phone.

had my Cappy out charging in Starbucks the other day and overheard the two people next to us chatting about it to each other:
"hey, what phone is that over there?"
"looks like the Xperia X10"
had to laugh at myself and told em its a Captivate and its not released here in Canada yet

To all who were tired of the bb.
I just came from a Bold 9000. Blackberry isn't really much outdated it's just really more lenient on business.
Tbh, I miss some things on my bb like keyboard shortcuts, the keyboard in general lol, bbm(reasons not sure why), and the ease of jumping around for me.
The reason why I jumped ship to the captivate is because it's the best android phone for AT&T and that's where I have a family plan :T lol I would have taken Sprint Epic if I could but I'm on AT&T!

^ I find bbm silly. Anyone who has a blackberry says they love it and I ask them why, the answer is always bbm. I say why is that better than text? They always try to come up with a reason. some of them know bbm transfers files. I say I have google talk and a vast array of other Im apps. They always say but bbm is blackberry only as if that's a good thing. I can talk to any one with a computer or iphone or android or whatever on there existing aim our yahoo account and they can only talk to there friends with blackberries, seems snobbish to me. You might say google talk can't send files, but yahoo messenger can.
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Our fight against Motorola & Verizon

If you haven't heard all ready Verizon is tracking down root users and limiting there data or fully suspending it so watch out. But we have to fight back against them by hiding Verizon from seeing that we are proudly rooted and some people have said the would sue Verizon. Please do whatever you can to fight against this.
Also motorola and htc are going to start doing the same.

This......can't be true........where did you learn of this?

Not surprising
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App

apDroid said:
Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1: source please

P3droid announced it. When i get time ill link
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Here is the link from MyDroidWorld: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Here is the entire post:
Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
Last edited by p3droid; 04-03-2011 at 09:44 AM.

I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get

necroscopev said:
I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.
I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.

Looks like it'll be the lg g2x for me. Or the Xperia arc if it's released in the U.S. with t-mobile's bands. After the merger, who knows

+1 same here man.
CaliTilt said:
What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.
I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

This is horrible.

I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?

piperat said:
Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.
U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.
Just my 2cents
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
thorpe24 said:
No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.
U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.
Just my 2cents
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?

nubsors said:
I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I read a while back, Verizon is going to tiered data plans, along with a handful of other carriers... I believe it was on xda, phandroid or android central that I had read multiple news articles about this...
piperat said:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically the data is still running to your phone, so it shouldn't matter. Plus I remember with 2.1 or something like that tethering was "suppose" to be free...
But this argument could go either way really... I see the view point from both sides and I think with a tiered data plan (over XX amount of gb of usage) should be enacted. Also maybe throttle the people downloading torrents or large amounts of data, and offer the tethering fee to unlock the full network speed to those people that download mass amounts of data and use tethering as their only or main source of internet (basically just a little rework of the system they have in place now). I mean I like to be able to tether when I'm on a roadtrip or don't have access to internet (mainly at work there is a dead spot for the wifi due to the radiology classes being inbetween our wifi antenna and the break room. This is caused by the lead lining in their walls). I don't download anything other than what little data I would be using on my phone normally to check some forums, facebook and the occasional email when I want to view those on a bigger screen due to eye and neck strain while eating my lunch. In all honesty, when you break it down, I use A TON less of data while I'm tethering than when I would use my phone as intended due to the tons of apps I run constantly with the constant updates. Now I know that is not the case for the majority of the people that use free tethering, but like the saying goes, why let a few bad apples ruin in for the rest (which is why I stated the throttling of large amounts of data being downloaded such as torrents...my cable internet provider already does this, so it can't be hard for them to implement).
This is not an attack on you personally if it came out that way, jsut a bunch of my scattered thoughts as I've running off of an average 1-2 hours of sleep per night for the past week and I have to be up for work in about 4 hours. And that's also my excuse if this sounds like complete gibberish. lol
racereddy20 said:
Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It says in the article...

piperat said:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, it's their company and, therefore, their say, but the problem is that there are only 4 big telcos, soon to be 3 (AT&T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint), and they're all in on it together. They all know that they can screw the consumer by charging extra for everything. Sprint's not as bad as the other 3, but they're not innocent either.
This is the same as how ISPs can theoretically do whatever they want as long as they tell us, but in practice it works out quite badly for the end user because you have about one or two choices of ISP where you live.
I'm not necessarily saying tethering should be free. But I'm DEFINITELY saying it's not worth $30 extra. A $5-10 add-on is all I see it worth being.

I think this will end up like the Iphone jailbreak.
Supreme Court said that the Purchaser OWNS the hardware and can do whatever the hell they want to it...F-Off Apple!
I think the same would happen...

[EVENT] Mass Return of our HTC Vivid

If enough people are interested, I had an idea that DFW XDA members all return their Vivids at the same time for a mass return at the AT&T HQ store in order to make a statement. This is the heart of their operation. We can discuss this, but what I and others came up with so far is:
AT&T Mass Return
Tuesday December 6th at 1:00pm
208 S Akard Street
STE 110
Dallas, TX 75202
Customer Parking Available for 2 hours at:
1600 Commerce Street
Dallas, TX 75201
Everyone is invited. Whether you have a Vivid or not. I understand not everyone lives here, but all are welcome none the less.
Thanks to Radi0chik
What do you guys think of this idea?

Reclaim said:
If enough people are interested, I had an idea that DFW XDA members all return their Vivids at the same time for a mass return at the AT&T HQ store in order to make a statement. This is the heart of their operation. We can discuss this, but what I and others came up with so far is:
AT&T Mass Return
Tuesday December 6th at 1:00pm
208 S Akard Street
STE 110
Dallas, TX 75202
Customer Parking Available for 2 hours at:
1600 Commerce Street
Dallas, TX 75201
Everyone is invited. Whether you have a Vivid or not. I understand not everyone lives here, but all are welcome none the less.
Thanks to Radi0chik
What do you guys think of this idea?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great idea.
Returned it already though.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium

I bought mine from Amazonwireless... and I've already asked for an exchange to the skyrocket.
Plus the fact that I have school then doesn't help, but if I could come, I would.

can some one help me decide on what phone to get on sunday once i return mine?
i think that lg nitro hd is nice, but ive heard the ui sucks on it... so i was thinking either that new google nexus phone (sorry, im new to android and cant remember all these pohones) or the gs2... id rather have the og gs2 cause its faster than the skyrocket and i dont care to have lte

randrewm97 said:
can some one help me decide on what phone to get on sunday once i return mine?
i think that lg nitro hd is nice, but ive heard the ui sucks on it... so i was thinking either that new google nexus phone (sorry, im new to android and cant remember all these pohones) or the gs2... id rather have the og gs2 cause its faster than the skyrocket and i dont care to have lte
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea if your going to go with a gs2 Definitely get the OG. The Skyrocket has issues with screen resolution and such. As far as the LG Nitro goes I think that is up in the air considering it is going to have a full 720p screen. I am actually slightly leaning toward the LG just because of that but I still need to research it a little bit more.

Yes. I am wondering the same. Though I'm not sure if it will be rooted... New to thus android world. Also, I'm not sure how the devs will take the phone. I heard the lg ui is like touchwiz but retarded... Not meaning to insult. I'm hoping someone will do a good overview of the nitro by sunday
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App

randrewm97 said:
I heard the lg ui is like touchwiz but retarded...
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, both of those UIs are on par with excrement. On day 1 of owning my Captivate, I switched launchers. Even on Froyo/GB, I could not put up with it and just went full AOSP launcher-wise. If the LG launcher is the same, I know that I won't like it for sure.
Sense is the only aftermarket UI that I like, hence why I ended up with this phone.
EDIT: Also, what's even the point of this? Sending a message to AT&T about this phone would do nothing with you guys mass-returning it. After the event, you wouldn't even care what happened to this device's development life anyway, while you guys all go for Nitros or Skyrockets or whatever phone fits your fancy.

Occupy AT&T....not a chance
You mad cause you have no root...?
Root doesn't allow you to do much anyway other than to either overclock your CPU, make a complete backup of your rom, flash any random rom you want etc...
All the phones have the same CPU chipset, you're just paying for different screen resolutions and plastic shells that cover everything
Samsung couldn't even use its custom CPU because it lacked the ability to incorporate LTE technology, so they chose the Snapdragon S3 APQ8060 dual-core CPU...the same one in the Vivid, and the same one is in the LG Nitro.
Its the only CPU capable of allowing AT&T's 4gLTE service to run smooth for the end user
So go ahead, boycott the Vivid, youre only benefit is a screen with a smaller resolution or a screen with a higher resolution, plus youre still gonna pay the difference plus a $35 restocking fee is applicable...

It seems to me that the problem isn't the Vivid. It's AT&T. If you really want to make a statement then keep this amazing phone, cancel your contracts with AT&T, and allow the devs to continue working on unlocking and fully rooting the device which you know they will. This will do two things. One: send a message to AT&T that will cost them BIG-TIME. Two:Once the devs see how many people are willing to SACRIFICE their wireless mobility for such a great device, they may release a carrier unlock and varying radio support for the different competitors for the vivid. There are some major competitors that offer much better rates and data packages with full LTE support that DON'T lock bootloaders.
It seems silly to put such a serious and damaging halt to great development just because you're unwilling to sever the head of the snake, whereas mass returns will accomplish nothing. Well, not nothing, but if you REALLY want this problem addressed, make AT&T pay with the sudden loss of income. HTC isn't the problem. The Vivid isn't the problem. Big corporations have insurance policies to protect them when there's a problem with inventory/product defects/returns etc. But losing customers.. That just plain sucks for ANY business. Hit them where it hurts. The Next big awesome phone you want will just be locked up tight as well unless you send a CLEAR message they CAN'T ignore.
The Vivid counterpart in Canada (Raider) has already had great roms and kernels that work and are supported/updated every couple of days. I love this phone more and more and would switch carriers in a heartbeat if the company I pay my hard earned money to EVERY Month wasn't treating me like a VALUED customer. AT&T KNOWS what they're doing. They KNOW that what they're continuuing to do is WRONG. But they aren't listening becuase the customers aren't willing to lose they're precious contract they've worked so hard for.
Yes, it means going without the ability to use your nice phone for a little while. Yes it will suck having NO cellphone at all with all it's nice features at your disposal and whim. Maybe getting a junker from a better provider and waiting for the devs is asking too much.
Either that or stop and realize you've had your phone for ONE month. Forget everything I've said about teaching your carrier a lesson, and show some support for xda (maybe a little faith and gratitude as well) because they LOVE tinkering with HTC's products. I wonder sometimes if there would even BE an XDA team without HTC. Be patient, or teach them a REAL lesson in customer service. The alternative is YOU losing out, and feeling all proud and happy for giving up something you once loved. But then again nobody wants to admit they're ACTUALLY PAYING AT&T to treat us like prisoners. Stripping you of your right to DO WITH YOUR PROPERTY THAT WHICH YOU FEEL LIKE DOING.
While we're at it let's all go buy REALLY nice houses where we're not allowed to decorate, hang pictures, change the layout of the livingroom, or park our cars anywhere near.

Been following these forums since the beginning of this week when I ordered the phone through amazon. Now that it has finally shipped today after being backordered, I'm seeing this
and returning this, which I got for a penny, would mean I would have to pay full price for the phone I exchange for, correct?
I wish the morale in this forum didn't seem like it is dying away, but I understand that many of us are almost at the 30 day limit on exchanges and two years is an awful long time to go without an unlocked bootloader.
My first htc phone, after going through LG and blackberry.... which might be exchanged like all of yours....

I think a lot of you are missing the point. This is not just about the bootloader. everyone's reasons are different so I can only share my own. So if you have been paying attention to this forum at all you might get that. Personally my reasons are in no particular order: Carrier IQ, locked bootloader..not just because of development, but because you can't get rid of Carrier IQ while the bootloader is locked, being throttled by AT&T with normal use only halfway through my Billing cycle at only 3.6gb while I still have to pay full price even though I'm on an unlimited plan, their lack of answers, their silencing of our voices on forums, and those are just a few reasons. This is beyond "you mad about no root". And if you think I won't care about what happens after this, then you really haven't been paying attention. My plan is to import a phone or stick with my streak until I figure out a better option. If I use a phone they don't have on file for me, then I can at least not be throttled or be affected directly by Carrier IQ.
This idea isn't JUST for vivid users, and no one is occupying anything. This is for the returns to occur in one fell swoop so they can feel the hit they have caused themselves. As paying customers, most of us are tired of being treated like this. If you're having trouble understanding why and how this would matter, then you haven't been following this forum.

Returned mine already

rodger-sp said:
Returned mine already
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everyone Ganged up on me last time when I politely said 'bye bye vivid' not even a week back. Even my thread got deleted and I can't find it on vivid general section anymore.
I think it's worth sticking to Samsung for a while. Eventhough I love sense interface so much, I enjoy having good debloated ROMs that give me full potential of the phone.
I'm back to galaxy s2 and it's totally worth it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium

ceo.mtcl said:
everyone Ganged up on me last time when I politely said 'bye bye vivid' not even a week back. Even my thread got deleted and I can't find it on vivid general section anymore.
I think it's worth sticking to Samsung for a while. Eventhough I love sense interface so much, I enjoy having good debloated ROMs that give me full potential of the phone.
I'm back to galaxy s2 and it's totally worth it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might have been ahead of the game sir.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19946984&postcount=173

Reclaim said:
I think a lot of you are missing the point. This is not just about the bootloader. everyone's reasons are different so I can only share my own. So if you have been paying attention to this forum at all you might get that. Personally my reasons are in no particular order: Carrier IQ, locked bootloader..not just because of development, but because you can't get rid of Carrier IQ while the bootloader is locked, being throttled by AT&T with normal use only halfway through my Billing cycle at only 3.6gb while I still have to pay full price even though I'm on an unlimited plan, their lack of answers, their silencing of our voices on forums, and those are just a few reasons. This is beyond "you mad about no root". And if you think I won't care about what happens after this, then you really haven't been paying attention. My plan is to import a phone or stick with my streak until I figure out a better option. If I use a phone they don't have on file for me, then I can at least not be throttled or be affected directly by Carrier IQ.
This idea isn't JUST for vivid users, and no one is occupying anything. This is for the returns to occur in one fell swoop so they can feel the hit they have caused themselves. As paying customers, most of us are tired of being treated like this. If you're having trouble understanding why and how this would matter, then you haven't been following this forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Carrier IQ situation will allow you to break free of your contract, not happy with AT&T, maybe it wasnt for you, not the first time a subscriber switched carriers. AT&T just got LTE when other carriers had it for longer and unthrottled, what stopped you from leaving then?, I have a bandwidth monitor on my vivid, the HTC IQ AGENT ( Carrier IQ ) doesn't take up gigs of your data plan, matter of fact it takes less than 1/10th of a MB. It is very freaky what this app is capable of and was pretty shocked when I saw the youtube vid. Did you know that uploads are also counted as well!. AT&T will soon realize that 4GB just isnt enough to satisfy customers.
Propose this, you have the ability to break free of your contract pretty soon cause of this whole CIQ debacle, if you want AT&T to keep your business, tell them you want unthrottled unlimited data on your grandfathered plan, they cant do that then just leave without penalty.
Its not HTC's fault AT&T has some weird business practices and contract practices that show up in forums / media from time to time, returning any carriers devices hurts sales and manufacturer reputation. Take the fight where it belongs, tell it to Al Franken..lol

penguinfishies said:
Been following these forums since the beginning of this week when I ordered the phone through amazon. Now that it has finally shipped today after being backordered, I'm seeing this
and returning this, which I got for a penny, would mean I would have to pay full price for the phone I exchange for, correct?
I wish the morale in this forum didn't seem like it is dying away, but I understand that many of us are almost at the 30 day limit on exchanges and two years is an awful long time to go without an unlocked bootloader.
My first htc phone, after going through LG and blackberry.... which might be exchanged like all of yours....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm in the same boat as you got mine for .01 and it's a nice phone. The only thing I'd like to do is remove some bloat apps, but honestly who cares. Everything I've thrown at it works way better than it did on my EVO 4g on Sprint.
Its not like I have unlimited data with ATT and I pay for 4gig of data.
I'm keeping mine root or no root.

EDIT: I misread an article that I thought had said that HTC promised it unlocked in a month. Either way, you people are so impatient.
EDIT2: If this is for Carrier IQ then I totally agree, but for a phone that doesn't have an unlocked bootloader That's just stupid.
If you guys are seriously going to "occupy AT&T" then you are idiots. A few hundred people won't make that huge of a difference when they have nearly 100 Million customers.
In the end you're only hurting the development community because when it does get unlocked everyone would have left.
That's my $0.02. Good day.
Sent from my HTC Vivid.

8125Omnimax said:
The Carrier IQ situation will allow you to break free of your contract, not happy with AT&T, maybe it wasnt for you, not the first time a subscriber switched carriers. AT&T just got LTE when other carriers had it for longer and unthrottled, what stopped you from leaving then?, I have a bandwidth monitor on my vivid, the HTC IQ AGENT ( Carrier IQ ) doesn't take up gigs of your data plan, matter of fact it takes less than 1/10th of a MB. It is very freaky what this app is capable of and was pretty shocked when I saw the youtube vid. Did you know that uploads are also counted as well!. AT&T will soon realize that 4GB just isnt enough to satisfy customers.
Propose this, you have the ability to break free of your contract pretty soon cause of this whole CIQ debacle, if you want AT&T to keep your business, tell them you want unthrottled unlimited data on your grandfathered plan, they cant do that then just leave without penalty.
Its not HTC's fault AT&T has some weird business practices and contract practices that show up in forums / media from time to time, returning any carriers devices hurts sales and manufacturer reputation. Take the fight where it belongs, tell it to Al Franken..lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You raise some really good points. Though I do feel HTC does have some degree of responsibility because it's on their branded product with their name attached to the actual app.

Infinimint said:
Wow... HTC already said they were going to unlock the bootloader for this phone. You people are so impatient.
If you guys are seriously going to "occupy AT&T" then you are idiots. I few hundred people won't make that huge of a difference when they have nearly 100 Million customers.
In the end you're only hurting the development community because when it does get unlocked everyone would have left.
That's my $0.02. Good day.
Sent from my HTC Vivid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I get a link to where they said they were going to unlock the bootloader?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium

staring to feel ripped off.

I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.

I'm not sure why they don't update things faster either. I guess it's just that a new version of android would confuse the majority of users. idk

Why would android OEMs want to upgrade their old devices? They get their money from selling more phones, if your g1 was officially kicking ICS, why would you want to upgrade? It's sales strategy. If you want updates, go to pretty much any other OS.

z33dev33l said:
Why would android OEMs want to upgrade their old devices? They get their money from selling more phones, if your g1 was officially kicking ICS, why would you want to upgrade? It's sales strategy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is partly true, this rest is garbage.
Another thing is, people who want upgraded OSs are in the minority. So it just doesn't make since to put resources into stuff people don't care about.
A lot of my friends are still on IOS4.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

Are there any programs that will only work on ICS that you absolutely must have?
There's none in my case.
My phone works great, so why do I need the OS updated to the latest?

xaccers said:
Are there any programs that will only work on ICS that you absolutely must have?
There's none in my case.
My phone works great, so why do I need the OS updated to the latest?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
99% of the time I'd agree with that, but I'm fastidious when it comes to having organised bookmarks. I use Chrome at home and at work and have bookmark syncing enabled. I've used ChromeMarks to access my Chrome bookmarks on my phone, but I've always wanted it to be part of the browser.
Enter, Google Chrome for Android. It does the bookmark syncing.
I literally have ICS on my S2 for that 1 reason. Even with a few bugs and lags every now and then (it's still beta, after all).

I find the people not wanting updates comment as b.s. As for them not wanting to update to sell new phones, I agree with that, but as a consumer it gets tiring having every penny milked from you in one way or another. I buy a new phone outright every year, I have an evo3d, so comparing its update to something like a g1 is ridiculous at best.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App

^ as stated you're the minority. The majority don't buy phones for updates. Hell most don't know what OS their phone has.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.

bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correcto, thats why carriers love Android so much.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

sleekgreek said:
I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because the programmers get paid for it so they have no hurry. the dev community wants to use it so they put alot of hours and concentration into and get it out. I feel your pain man

This.
bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most common candidate for being the main reason. Why make people content with the last Big Thing when you can instead beef up and get them hyped for the next Big Thing?
But then why schedule the Ice Cream upgrade for the SGII just before the SGIII comes out? Beats me. Maybe companies are just schizophrenic. Maybe it's a genius plan to make people fume into wanting the SGIII (people tend not to to change their minds once they've made it up) while ensuring the people who can't afford it still remain happy after six months. Maybe it's just a publicity issue (Samsung needs the positive publicity of coming out with ICS, so they'll eventually need to follow through, but not until the very last moment). Any explanation seems likely to me at this point.
This is why it's generally best to buy a future-proof phone. With the Nexus, for example, you'll be able to get indefinite upgrades from google (even if you have to go through a few hoops). The easier something is to unlock (and I suppose: the more popular it is so that more devs are working on it), the more likely you'll be able to keep your phone upgraded yourself, even if you'll have to go through a few hoops to do so. You can't rely on your manufacturer*, and you definitely can't rely on your carrier to have your best upgrade interests in mind.
Of course, if you get a new phone every year (or even every two years), this isn't so much of an issue for you. Most people probably do this (indeed, the very system encourages them to do this), and so there's little incentive to actually change the system.
*This is supposedly where Apple excels, but at what cost..

I can answer that....
You see, all the armchair programmers have a disclaimer that says "We are not responsible if we break your phone..It may, or may not work as expected and if it blows up your phone it's not our fault"
A huge corporation like Motorola/HTC/Samsung/LG/Nokia/etc have millions of users worldwide with a large set of carriers that all want to tweak the user experience to what that particular carrier wants to standardize on. The phone manufacturer may build what they think is a perfectly reasonable piece of software (ALL software has bugs by the way) only to have it kicked back by the internal quality assurance team because it fails a particular test case. And when you have several dozen/hundred developers working on software it's a coordinated effort to meet internal timelines and goals. And if it passes the internal testing it has to be tested by the carriers who can reject the software build due to bugs/user experience/last minute enhancements which triggers the whole cycle all over again.
Smaller development teams where it's a few people working on code do not have as much overhead and probably don't have as much internal testing processes for all possible corner cases as a huge company does so they can coordinate and release a build much quicker.
sleekgreek said:
I'm starting to feel ripped off with how long these upgrades take. I mean when you have phones manufactures posting profits in the millions and billions, yet they wont hire the manpower to get these updates out, it gets old. I have an evo3d, and feel like we should have ICS already. I know when I had a palm pre, at launch, the armchair programmers did more for that phone for free, then palms paid programmers ever did. Thats what I dont understand, if these rom guys can do so much in a couple hours after work, then why can't these paid 8 hour sh%theads get the job done in a reasonable amount of time. Just like my acer 100 tab, when you buy it they say january have ICS, after you've bought it, now its april maybe. Ridiculous. Just venting I suppose, although I feel its a justified vent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

As said above, the biggest issues are that Devs here and elsewhere have no responsibilities if the upgrades fail, and secondly, there are a ridiculous number of devices being released. There are about 100 android devices available as current phones, and I don't know how many total. Rather difficult to keep so many up to date. It would be nice if they would scale back how many products are out at once, but manufacturers don't seem to get that yet.

psychephylax said:
I can answer that....
You see, all the armchair programmers have a disclaimer that says "We are not responsible if we break your phone..It may, or may not work as expected and if it blows up your phone it's not our fault"
A huge corporation like Motorola/HTC/Samsung/LG/Nokia/etc have millions of users worldwide with a large set of carriers that all want to tweak the user experience to what that particular carrier wants to standardize on. The phone manufacturer may build what they think is a perfectly reasonable piece of software (ALL software has bugs by the way) only to have it kicked back by the internal quality assurance team because it fails a particular test case. And when you have several dozen/hundred developers working on software it's a coordinated effort to meet internal timelines and goals. And if it passes the internal testing it has to be tested by the carriers who can reject the software build due to bugs/user experience/last minute enhancements which triggers the whole cycle all over again.
Smaller development teams where it's a few people working on code do not have as much overhead and probably don't have as much internal testing processes for all possible corner cases as a huge company does so they can coordinate and release a build much quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just dont agree with that, after being with the palm pre from its launch, through all the manual hacks we had to implement before preware, then finally recieving an update months later that couldn't compete with the unofficial code from the guys over at precentral. There is a problem there. I understand there is alot of red tape involved with official releases, but even given that, the time frames are still ridiculous to the point that there is nothing reasonable about it. As awesome as the pre was it was missing basic functions, functions that were there in the code, perhaps they wanted to follow apples model of screwing the customer into the next model, idk. The fact of the matter is, there is no reason why htc or acer or samsung, despite touchwiz and sense and cant push out a nice update in a timely manner, none.

bacnat86 said:
if they dont update it you will be more willing to upgrade your phone sooner. They have nothing to gain from spending time updating there phones when they can slap a slightly better os on a slightly better phone and get you in a new two year contract.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK where contracts (compared with what I've seen in other countries) are actually pretty good value, you get a new phone for free or not very much every time you renew your contract.
After even a year, there are much better phones out there, the phone you have may be a bit scuffed around the corners, battery will be down on capacity.
So most people upgrade when they get a new contract anyway.

It kills me when i read about the supposedly new "jelly bean" that's supposed to be coming out within the year. Seriously? get ICS out on more phones before you even THINK about releasing another update. Who knows the actual reason behind the delays for these updates but someone needs to get on it. When some of the newest phones out right now still don't have ICS or won't for awhile, there's something wrong.

The obvious plan is to push people to buy the newer quad core phones, more contracts, more money, not to mention if there's a premium because they're "quad core" just like then 4G first came out.

the majority of people buy what their salesman makes look good. some chick at the t-mobile store i was in bought some old phone cuz it was a few bucks cheaper than a new phone, which is like twice as fast and will have support at least 6 months longer than the other..

Shano56 said:
the majority of people buy what their salesman makes look good. some chick at the t-mobile store i was in bought some old phone cuz it was a few bucks cheaper than a new phone, which is like twice as fast and will have support at least 6 months longer than the other..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true. A while back when I was trying to buy my first smartphone I ended up buying an original Droid just because of the salesman telling me about buy one get one offer, after reading about them, I had found out that this phone was so outdated, luckily I had found out before my 30 days.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium

Oh Dear, HTC is hurting

An article on my phone popped up (sorry forgot source) but it really looked bad.
Top Execs leaving.
Their Market share has dropped so low (under 4%) that some sites put them now in the "Other" Category (along with RIM etc.).
The HTC One is hoped to save them and most agree it's a fantastic phone, but now there are parts shortages and if you don't get that first wave you won't have a winner despite being better hardware.
Profits are down 98% from last year.
Profits are like in the Millions for HTC and Billions for Samsung (not sure if that is just for phones though).
Google HTC it's is all over the place.
I sure hope they can turn things around but now they are losing key people. I've had a new HTC phone every year since the Mogul (maybe earlier, been too long).
I don't think I've ever had to replace one (except one I bricked). Sold every one as working.
By the way I think this thread does belong here because the HTC One is Key and Folks Considering Buying one should know what's going on. I had no idea.
Sad that it popped up on my HTC Phone.

I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

mswlogo said:
An article on my phone popped up (sorry forgot source) but it really looked bad.
Top Execs leaving.
Their Market share has dropped so low (under 4%) that some sites put them now in the "Other" Category (along with RIM etc.).
The HTC One is hoped to save them and most agree it's a fantastic phone, but now there are parts shortages and if you don't get that first wave you won't have a winner despite being better hardware.
Profits are down 98% from last year.
Profits are like in the Millions for HTC and Billions for Samsung (not sure if that is just for phones though).
Google HTC it's is all over the place.
I sure hope they can turn things around but now they are losing key people. I've had a new HTC phone every year since the Mogul (maybe earlier, been too long).
I don't think I've ever had to replace one (except one I bricked). Sold every one as working.
By the way I think this thread does belong here because the HTC One is Key and Folks Considering Buying one should know what's going on. I had no idea.
Sad that it popped up on my HTC Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, looking at it all wrong.
For the past few years people were complaining about HTC's marketing strategies, design, and other things. HTC is taking the power from those people who were directly responsible for those things people were complaining about, and giving it to new people with fresh ideas, new strategies and new direction. Its call change, and to me its a change for the better. You can already see the difference in strategy and its working. Those guys seem bitter that they are getting phased out. HTC is evolving and I give them kudos rather than keep the same people and be status quo.

I read that story too. While I agree that HTC has suffered I believe that story is hyperbolic. Some execs left, they all seemed to have other jobs lined up pretty quickly. The fact is things weren't going great. The fact that they left might be a good thing as they might be part of the problem.
Another fact is the HTC One has been and will continue to be a success at least through the summer. It needs the 4.2 update to compete. If it launched with 4.2 there really would be no place to complain.
I don't know what the future has for HTC but they are doing better than BlackBerry and Nokia if that means anything. As for the bootloader, you heard of Motorola?
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I agree with the better off comments. The guy who is telling his friends to leave we have no idea if he is a disgruntled employee trying to blow the low numbers into a sensationalized story, or if he was legit employee that was valued at the company.
One truth we know, these guys that are leaving are the ones who drove the company downward, so yeah better off without them
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well I figure no matter what the devs we have here will still keep the one updated even if htc goes under.

sniperkill said:
I too have a HTCONE and love the quality of HTC phones. But I also have a Samsung Note II. As for HTC going down hill, it serves them right for them locking down their bootloaders. First with the Evo 3D, and now the HTCONE. Yeah, I know they gave us htcdev.com but like with samsung devices, its so easy unlocking the bootloaders because Samsung supports our beloved developers. HTC just wants control, or some control, like our parents. Htc wants to say, "no no, you cant do that with your phone, it might hurt it". Htc doesn't want to give us "users" the choice to break our phones if we want, which is why they lock the bootloaders.
Htc thinks their slick too. With the evo 3d they allowed us to unlock our bootloaders but they wouldn't allow us to flash kernels, or downgrade our bootloaders. Which is why our developers found a way to hack into our bootloaders with the evo 3d to gain s-off. But with the HTCONE they also allowed us to unlock our bootloaders, only now they made it possible to flash kernels, their thinking if they gave us access to flash kernels, maybe our developers wouldn't worry about hacking the htcone's bootloader to gain s-off. But little do they know that where ever there's a rule, there's always someone who will find a way to break that rule.
As far as im concerned, htc is getting what they deserve. Htc had some serious followers until they released the evo 3d with a locked bootloader. I alone know of a couple dozen htc fans who stopped buying htc phones just because of that actoin of theirs. So I still bought the htcone thinking they might have learned their lesson, but NOPE, instead they release a dev addition, asking for more money for it. Htc is starting to remind me of Apple, lmao...
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Hmm I'm not calling you a liar, but I am skeptical of your "couple dozen fans" story. Even if it was true, it's only a minor amount.
Facts are facts and one fact is the android community that actually hacks, roots, installs custom software or even knows those options are available, is very small. The majority of android users have no idea or care less and it's not even close. Even smaller is the part of the android community that hacks and needs s-off on a phone like the One. I flash custom roms/kernels. S-off would be pretty cool, but it isn't really gonna offer me anything more than I already have. While it's a *bleep* move for HTC to do that, it is hardly the reason they are losing money.
HTC is simply falling off because they don't know how to market. They are doing a better job with the One, but it's almost too little too late. Samsung is the new Apple and the war between Android and Apple consists of Samsung and Iphone/Ipad products thanks to huge, clever marketing. That's pretty much what it boils down to. There is a reason why advertising is so expensive.
---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------
kc_exactly said:
I read that story too. While I agree that HTC has suffered I believe that story is hyperbolic. Some execs left, they all seemed to have other jobs lined up pretty quickly. The fact is things weren't going great. The fact that they left might be a good thing as they might be part of the problem.
Another fact is the HTC One has been and will continue to be a success at least through the summer. It needs the 4.2 update to compete. If it launched with 4.2 there really would be no place to complain.
I don't know what the future has for HTC but they are doing better than BlackBerry and Nokia if that means anything. As for the bootloader, you heard of Motorola?
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Again, the 4.2 update will be nice, but nobody pays attention to that outside of the hacking community.
Samsung s4= Android Jelly Bean
Htc One= Android Jelly Bean.
What's the real difference, the real selling point to an average android user of 4.2 over 4.1 ? They aren't going to care.
You know what they see? They see Samsung commercials banging on Apple, they see software gimmicks like "smart scroll' and other "shinys"
Cool camera features, IR blasters and other goodies to show their friends. They aren't looking for better bluetooth stacks and the like. Heck even windows is getting in on the marketing ploy, showing commercials of android and phone users fighting each other, it's all marketing.

Rippley05 said:
Hmm I'm not calling you a liar, but I am skeptical of your "couple dozen fans" story. Even if it was true, it's only a minor amount.
Facts are facts and one fact is the android community that actually hacks, roots, installs custom software or even knows those options are available, is very small. The majority of android users have no idea or care less and it's not even close. Even smaller is the part of the android community that hacks and needs s-off on a phone like the One. I flash custom roms/kernels. S-off would be pretty cool, but it isn't really gonna offer me anything more than I already have. While it's a *bleep* move for HTC to do that, it is hardly the reason they are losing money.
HTC is simply falling off because they don't know how to market. They are doing a better job with the One, but it's almost too little too late. Samsung is the new Apple and the war between Android and Apple consists of Samsung and Iphone/Ipad products thanks to huge, clever marketing. That's pretty much what it boils down to. There is a reason why advertising is so expensive.
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Couldn't have said it better myself. XDA has what... 5 million members world wide... World population is estimated at 7 billions (in 2012)... assume only 1/4 of those own cell phones and lets double the 5 million number... so 1.75 billion potential cellphone users... lets just use the 50% marketshare for android... so 875 million android handsets out there...
10 million / 875 million = 1.1% ... Yes these numbes are 100% pulled out of my behind but we can get even more liberal and says 1/32nd of the total population own cell phones... that would equal roughly 9% of the cellphone population would care about unlocked bootloaders...

Well I don't know the story about unlocked Bootloaders w.r.t. other brands, except I do know it's extremely difficult on iPhones to Jailbreak (if not impossible on iPhone5). But I don't blame HTC at all. I'm sure a lot comes from carriers. They don't want unlocked devices on their network. Sprint/AT&T/T-Mobile etc. is their customer.
I also agree many don't know what a bootloader is, but it's really surprising to see things like RootExplorer, Titanium Backup, ROM Manager etc. as top downloads on Google Play. Although the stats might be skewed with all the "Wiping" and Reflashing
Interesting some see it as a positive move. Well one of the lead technical guys responsible for the HTC One just left. And the CEO said he'll step down if HTC One fails.
Yeah the new direction might be more plastic to compete with Samsung.

eXplicit815 said:
Just so everyone's clear, this is not as big of a reason as this person has made it out to be. The amount of people who care about the bootloader or rooting the phone when buying an HTC phone is probably less than 2%. The problem is they were crushed with Samsung's huge spending on advertising. They even got a little bit of free advertisement for those who just pay attention because of their problems with Apple. That being said, HTC is putting more into advertisement, but they are having a hard time delivering their products. With them now being a B-List consumer for parts, it's hard to deliver the products to the demand. People now have to say "Well, I either settle with a Samsung phone, or wait for an HTC One to become available." I believe they'll bounce back, but it's going to be a tough year if they can't produce more of these phones and get them into the hands of the customers that want them.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41720350&postcount=8 Did some basic assumptions on that percent.
terrel_b said:
As others have said, it's a very small minority that care about unlocked bootloaders, etc. Companies aren't making huge profits because of the number of people buying the phone for root, S-OFF, etc. Profit margins are based on the masses.
The real problem is the G3 was a helluva phone that was the best android phone at the time, far beating out the Evo3d, which was a crap "upgrade" to the badass Evo. And Samsuck had a helluva marketing scheme. It appears Samsung is now following Apple's lead in putting out new phones without much substance, but people "have to have them" just like iPhone users have to have the latest inconsequential update. The One is a great phone, but there's a reason I didn't renew my contract when I bought the phone. Hopefully HTC can right the ship, cause I love this phone and HTC, but you have to keep up in technology (especially wireless) not just in hardware but also in customers' perception of your products. (marketing)
I will say, I was putzing with my phone this weekend and a friend asked if it was The One, saying he was jealous after I said yep.
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As for the GS3 vs Evo3d... it was actually the GS2 (Epic 4g Touch) vs the EVO3d... GS3 came out later.

numus said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41720350&postcount=8 Did some basic assumptions on that percent.
As for the GS3 vs Evo3d... it was actually the GS2 (Epic 4g Touch) vs the EVO3d... GS3 came out later.
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I'm sure that percentage is much less than that even.

HTC hurt itself with Sense 3 as beautiful as it was, it lagged. Sg2 was smooth, a lot of employees at radioshack, best buy and sprint were recommending Samsung over htc because of the lag.
I met a radioshack employee who told me he had the og and got the 3D and then sold it for the sg2. He said he was happy with the move. Hi showed him my 3D at the time and yeah it lagged big time. Interestingly enough the guy told me to check out themikmik for some faster roms than the ones on xda for the 3D.
I don't want to discredit the guy with 12 friends who bailed on htc, they could have been mobile kiosk employees at the mall who recommended Samsung over htc.
Back on the current generation of phones, the one is better, sg4 lags. Might be too late if Samsung developed some brand loyalty over the last 2 yrs. As for the storagr/lack of sd, regular people don't care about it. Only here on xda people care so they can carry entire music collection and/or their pron. I'll be honest I would carry more pron with me lol
Its not the end of htc, someone will buy them to get into the mobile game, give them some cash and breathe life into the brand. I'm thinking HP would be a great company to take over htc.
Again the blame for htc downward trend lies with these guys that are leaving the company
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numus said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41720350&postcount=8 Did some basic assumptions on that percent.
As for the GS3 vs Evo3d... it was actually the GS2 (Epic 4g Touch) vs the EVO3d... GS3 came out later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true and it was the evo lte vs gs3. I think another major issue that plagued the lte was the fact that the form factor is different than the one x.... Samsung made the gs3 the same form factor across the carriers. I believe this helped boost their rep with consumers. Because if I'm not mistaken HTC and sammy were pretty closely tied prior to the gs3 release ( and I know they marketed the **** out of the phone but again they only needed to advertise one device where HTC had what like 17 variants of the one last year?)
As for et4g vs 3d I had both... Twice actually and both times I preferred my 3d by a looooong shot. Battery life was so much better, beats, I liked the development better and as for speed they were close but I'll take a Qualcomm over an exynos anyday. The only reason j kept switching was because I was in a wimax area so refused to upgrade to lte and wanted to play with something else.

Another thing that hurt them was the numerous release of so many different models after the HTC evo all with different names, there was no market branding to it. think of htc sensation htc rhyme htc insert name here. Samsung chose the different route release on all carriers distinguished their brand with a common name "galaxy" series name. Every day users will see a Samsung and go oh that's a galaxy device.
HTC should have stuck to the evo brand as that was the one phone that people recognized and just used that name across the board, they are trying to do this now with the "One" series but it has been a little late.
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My whole thing about sd card is not for more storage to store music and such. It's the damn games that take up all the spaces. Games like Gameloft, gta and such 3d games uses a lot of storage space. I bought a bunch of gameloft games for a buck a piece back then and my son and i loved to play them. I'd be damn if i can't install all the games i have on a such flagship device.
Who knows, maybe just my family who play these games on these capable powerful devices.

A few years ago, there were a lot less people with smartphones and were rockin phones like Rumor touches because texting was the hot thing. At that time, phones made by HTC were high end and distinct from others so people got to know the HTC brand as awesome! HTC lost that touch at some point and failed to continue that connection with customers by getting a little greedy (imo), trying to fast produce all these different phones at the same time which imo, some of them were soso quality and people started saying bad things about HTC. If they would have stuck with awesome, unique, distinct, and innovative devices, that's what they would be known for today. But instead, now people only see Samsung and Apple as top dogs. The " Quitely Brilliant" slogan fit them very well at one time because HTC was small (compared to Sami/Apple) but had a big punch when they brought a new phone out. Anyhow...I hope HTC can turn this around and if not, hopefully Google will buy them. I absolutely love my ONE btw.....
via phONE.

Chou needs to go. The beats investment, bloated sense 3 and a continuous dive in revenue have all been under his watch . Any other ceo would have been fired long ago.
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