Database Develop

swap how it works not how to set it up

i have not stayed as up to date with all the advancements on the g1. so im asking about swap and how it works i read how works on like desktop and ect but i did not fully understand it. also tried looking a some threads about again could not really find anything on how it works. i get that its kind of like extra ram but not really. i guess im wondering how its not like ram i understand that its not hardwired and that can create issue is that the only real difference? and why can too much give you strange lags and ect? any reply would be of tremendous help

on that subject please explain swappiness 2. how to check and change swappiness. i understand u can change swappiness with terminal with code: su
then
echo xx > proc/sys/vm/swappiness
but how to check the swappiness?

j0k3rn2o said:
on that subject please explain swappiness 2. how to check and change swappiness. i understand u can change swappiness with terminal with code: su
then
echo xx > proc/sys/vm/swappiness
but how to check the swappiness?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually pull the file and look at it.
Code:
su
cp /system/bin/user.conf /sdcard/user.conf
Then once you edit or do what you will now we need to move it back.
Code:
cp /sdcard/user.conf /system/bin/user.conf
Then i use "Text Edit" to look at the file and read the swappiness.

jmon777 said:
i have not stayed as up to date with all the advancements on the g1. so im asking about swap and how it works i read how works on like desktop and ect but i did not fully understand it. also tried looking a some threads about again could not really find anything on how it works. i get that its kind of like extra ram but not really. i guess im wondering how its not like ram i understand that its not hardwired and that can create issue is that the only real difference? and why can too much give you strange lags and ect? any reply would be of tremendous help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The swap is something like Virtual Ram. It helps the G1 run things like Hero or make cupcake faster. Its something that the G1 lacks but most other android devices will have. You'll need to set up your SD card in the following order. Fat32/Ext2-3-4/Linux-Swap. Most ROM's will use the swap automatically so there's nothing extra you need to do.

nolimit78 said:
The swap is something like Virtual Ram. It helps the G1 run things like Hero or make cupcake faster. Its something that the G1 lacks but most other android devices will have. You'll need to set up your SD card in the following order. Fat32/Ext2-3-4/Linux-Swap. Most ROM's will use the swap automatically so there's nothing extra you need to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok i get that. and i dont think that any of the new phones will have this until there is larger internal storage. but i could wrong. but my question that remains is why a swap partition of 128 or so seem to create odd lag problems. and most devs say 32 mb is most stable so a little information on this would be nice.

jmon777 said:
ok i get that. and i dont think that any of the new phones will have this until there is larger internal storage. but i could wrong. but my question that remains is why a swap partition of 128 or so seem to create odd lag problems. and most devs say 32 mb is most stable so a little information on this would be nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm I've acutally heard good things about 128. I haven't gone over 100mb for Linux Swap and it's actually pretty smooth... I would stick with that and if you want more speed increase your swappiness And that's the thing when rooting your phone like we're doing. It's a clear example of "Results my Vary" What works for one person may not work for another. I would use a linux-swap that works best for you. Try using 64 or 96mb.. see if that works better for you.

nolimit78 said:
Hmmm I've acutally heard good things about 128. I haven't gone over 100mb for Linux Swap and it's actually pretty smooth... I would stick with that and if you want more speed increase your swappiness And that's the thing when rooting your phone like we're doing. It's a clear example of "Results my Vary" What works for one person may not work for another. I would use a linux-swap that works best for you. Try using 64 or 96mb.. see if that works better for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i haven't done much experimenting because i have not had a complete understanding of it but i am getting there. and i had to get a replacement g1. im going play with a probably burn out a card or 2. but still i would like to know why too much room in the swap partition can make issues and also i was wondering if the size of the card matters in relation to size of the partitions.

jmon777 said:
i haven't done much experimenting because i have not had a complete understanding of it but i am getting there. and i had to get a replacement g1. im going play with a probably burn out a card or 2. but still i would like to know why too much room in the swap partition can make issues and also i was wondering if the size of the card matters in relation to size of the partitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of the ROM's just have a hard time. I don't think there's an exact reason. (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I've looked myself) It's weird because some people have great results and others it's just awful.
When it comes to your SD Card It doesn't matter the sizes as long as:
Fat32 Can be the remainder of the card
EXT2/3/4: 1.5GB or less. I've read that any higher and the ROM's freak out
Linux: This can be 128mb or less. Either create a 32/64/96/128 size partition and you should be fine.

do you mind if u can dumb it down for me a lil cuz i have been trying to figure out what the helll swappiness means and i cant find any good explanations. heres what i got so far, correct me if i am wrong. basically, as mentioned, its virtual ram. this virtual ram comes from ur SD card. so when our phones internal ram is not enough, say like on my MT3G, then the ROM, hero in this case, will use the SD memory as RAM. right? ok so whats the point of needing 3 partitions? why is this linux one so freakin important? and what do u mean by swappiness? do u mean just how much mb u are using from every partition?

from what i understand... (which isn't very much)
a swap space is used like ram (like some one said earlier virtual memory) the reason a larger swap space is not as stable in the long run is that once the space starts to fill up more it has more to read through and swap between the swap space and the phone.
swappiness is the rate at which the info is stored in the swap space. its measured in 0 to 100. 0 being the lowest and 100 the highest. the higher the number the more the swap space is used but also the faster the swap space will start to fill up.
i hope my mediocre explanations are not to horribly wrong

Iman07 said:
do you mind if u can dumb it down for me a lil cuz i have been trying to figure out what the helll swappiness means and i cant find any good explanations. heres what i got so far, correct me if i am wrong. basically, as mentioned, its virtual ram. this virtual ram comes from ur SD card. so when our phones internal ram is not enough, say like on my MT3G, then the ROM, hero in this case,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
will use the SD memory as RAM. right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It'll use it in addition to the internal RAM.
ok so whats the point of needing 3 partitions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fat32: Needed to keep additional files on. Storage, music, pictures, ect.
EXT2-3-4: This is used in conjunction with the internal memory. (The G1 suffers from a lack of internal space. This is the primary reason why I rooted to begin with)
Linux-Swap: This helps improve the G1/MT3G run CupCake/AOSP/Hero a lot smoother. This works as additional RAM for the unit.
why is this linux one so freakin important?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This helps run ROM's on a phone that it shouldn't be running on. IE the G1 Running Hero
and what do u mean by swappiness?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Swappiness is the speed that the ROM can access the LinuxSwap Partition
do u mean just how much mb u are using from every partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This one I didn't understand..

this thread has been very helpful to ne thanks to all those who read it and gave me some info i hope it helps others as well. i got a g1 in the mail today (hope its new and not referb) but im try this this weekend and see how works. but im going try look into and understand why the size matters little more. because i dint think anyone knows.

thank you so much nolimit and everyone else for helping me understand this. i really do appreciate it. it all makes sense now!

App to test microsd card speed???

Is there any app available that can do this???

Nope.
But the request does come up enough that maybe I should write up something simple...

Kcarpenter said:
Nope.
But the request does come up enough that maybe I should write up something simple...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be awesome. A lot of times theres no specs on the speed of cards out there and your not really sure of what you are buying. It would be awesome.

excellent idea for an app. there are cards out there that do not list there class and cards that are listed as class 2 yet reach class 6 speeds.
cheers,
ryan

If you guys would give me a good algorithim to test read/write speeds I can work on it later tonight. It will probably take a few days a best.
But My idea is write a 2 meg file to the SD card, time it. Read the same file from the card, time it. Do a little math...present some numbers...
Now there are a lot of issues that could come into play with that method. Maybe repeat it 3 or 4 times just to see an average, but still its not the best that it could be.

What about just getting a microsd adapter or even mounting it to the computer. And then run a program that tests read/write speeds and use it on the card. like h2testw or something :/

kyouko said:
What about just getting a microsd adapter or even mounting it to the computer. And then run a program that tests read/write speeds and use it on the card. like h2testw or something :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. On the phone is just cooler
2. On another thread about this topic there was debate about how accurate it would be to use an adapter or mounting as a drive. Adding cable seems to me like it could increase latency and you are no longer using the phones OS to test its internal stuff. ( i know its USB its faster than the card anyways, but see #1)

Kcarpenter said:
If you guys would give me a good algorithim to test read/write speeds I can work on it later tonight. It will probably take a few days a best.
But My idea is write a 2 meg file to the SD card, time it. Read the same file from the card, time it. Do a little math...present some numbers...
Now there are a lot of issues that could come into play with that method. Maybe repeat it 3 or 4 times just to see an average, but still its not the best that it could be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can start from there then trial and error. I was thinking you can take a look at any of the web SpeedTests in the market and learn something from there.

If you are on linux you can mount the phone and run
Code:
hdparm -tT /dev/sdd
where sdd is the phones drive(could be different on your machine)
That will give you a read speed but would would be limited by your USB read speed.
Hdparm is not built into android so you can't run it from the phone. There is one command that is built in that can measure speeds... However it is VERY VERY VERY dangerous so I hesitate to post it here but... dd
For the love of God do not mess with dd unless you read up on it and fully understand it. You could very easily measure write speed as well as read with dd but you would need an empty card because you would have to just blindly write to the blocks on the card. Doing which will at the bare minimum if you know what you are doing overwrite stuff on the card. Worst case is you mess up your partition table and have to re-partition. So I will only point you in the direction of dd and not post any code on how to use it for fear of some idiot entering the code and wiping their phone(although they would have to know how to use adb shell so they wouldn't be complete idiots)

This would be a useful app. I have a class 6 PNY SD and want to know how fast it really is.

Wow, what an AMAZING idea for an app. I would be more than happy to help and test!!!

Sooo
I am working on this guys.
I have gotten the program writing a file out to the SDcard. It just a randomly filled Byte Array being parsed to a file on the SDcard a few times, then reading it back off (Haven't got the reading part yet). I am running into some FC issues and also getting the timer to work is being a PITA. Android doesn't like my threads for some reason.
If I have time this week maybe I can get it done - or at least working, but I have some stuff going on that may slow down progress.
EDIT:
Also if anyone that is not quite so Artisticly Challenged as I am wants to get me some drawables. I can use an Icon and a 320x480 image back ground (Let's try to keep it simple , I have seen some of your boot screens. lol)

Bump for moral support!

couldn't you just pop it into an adapter, and use HD Tune on your pc? http://www.hdtune.com/

I think the concept of the app request is so people don't have to turn off theory beloved heroes and pull battery just to get to the SD card, babe.
couldn't you just pop it into an adapter, and use HD Tune on your pc? http://www.hdtune.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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Kcarpenter, if you don't mind me asking what the status on this?
-------------------------------------
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kashb91 said:
Kcarpenter, if you don't mind me asking what the status on this?
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, it reads and writes a 6 meg file while spinning a wait cursor LOL.
Been working on final projects the past few weeks.
Might have something out 2 week of june.
As it stands now:
1)Need to setup a time mechanism - probably most acurate to grab a time stamp before the start and after the finish. Threads tend to get time messed up.
2)After the file is written and the time is figured out. Need to display the read/write results.
3)Then need to cleanup the file and ram after everything is done.
Also, I have seen the file only become half of the size it should be (3 mb)....which I think has something to do with UTF (Chars taking up 2 bytes)....but I am not sure yet.
And on top of that...who the hell knows if its accurate LOL.
But it's been interesting and fun.

haha, well thats good. keeps you interested then. i honestly dont kknow anything about programming and what not, so i cant help you there. buuuutttt when you finish and need testers i can help. well try anyways

kashb91 said:
haha, well thats good. keeps you interested then. i honestly dont kknow anything about programming and what not, so i cant help you there. buuuutttt when you finish and need testers i can help. well try anyways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am really interested to see if it's even remotly accurate.
Seems like creating a 6 meg file and writing it out from memory to the card would surely test well... But there are a crap ton of things that could come into play and effect it.
I guess we'll only know if we try.

unless my phone explodes, i see nothing wrong with trying it out.

CacheMate Settings

Hello guys! I'm new to the app, CacheMate. I would like to know your settings please

xr4v3nx said:
Hello guys! I'm new to the app, CacheMate. I would like to know your settings please
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would you mind telling me a little bit more about CacheMate? I ask because I was doing some research on Linux partition swap sizes last week and frequently ran into people on the G1 board and elsewhere saying that you can set the swap size to "0 MB" provided you "use CacheMate." What's does this program do and what's the benefit?
Appreciate any help!

KarateExplosion6 said:
Would you mind telling me a little bit more about CacheMate? I ask because I was doing some research on Linux partition swap sizes last week and frequently ran into people on the G1 board and elsewhere saying that you can set the swap size to "0 MB" provided you "use CacheMate." What's does this program do and what's the benefit?
Appreciate any help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here sir
http://www.aaandroid.com/index.php/cachemate/
Basically, what it does is it removes cache from your phone's internal memory and if you want, your SD card too, thus, gives you extra space for stuff.

It's a great asset if your browse the net a lot. Once click and you've freed a lot of memory.
Sent from my Froyo Eris using XDA App

i've been using cache cleaner. how is cachemate better/different?
Thanks

Jp50 said:
i've been using cache cleaner. how is cachemate better/different?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it has more options to play with? We love options
And it could clean caches in the SD.

Buy it otd the best and it auto Cleanse
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App

[DEV] [Progress towards DATA2EXT]

So this is the future thread of DATA2EXT.
Basically this is a hack to mount part of /data onto the SDcard, improving I/O thoroughput, as data will be written to internal NAND and SDCard. (Theoretically)
I've currently gotten really close to a functional DATA2EXT.
About to flash the next test, and I think I got it this time.
Progress will be posted here.

v1: Failed. Not that easy.
v2: OOOHHH. Still failed.
v3: Mhmm. THAT should do it.
v4: Heyyy! Found an error! *fixes. Trying now =] Failed as well.
v5: Failed failed.
lots more fails.
v17 Trying new idea now!

Bugs go herreeeeeeeeeeeeee

Maybe some random stuff here xD

Thanks man I'm excited about this thanks for looking into it.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

Gahh Its Lee said:
Thanks man I'm excited about this thanks for looking into it.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT: Haha... I realize that this quote has nothing to do with cyanogen's warning xD Oh well
Yup yup. I respect cyanogen, but from what I've read, it seems his main issues are:
1. Doesn't actually help anything.
2. Doesn't get wiped, so errors between ROMs will occur.
However, theoretically, it SHOULD help. Read / write is now spread across NAND and SD, so should increase I/O. But again, real-world difference has yet to be looked at.
Wiping it IS possible. One could delete the partition, and the recreate it. Wipe. What cyanogen seems to mean is that it's not baked into clockworkmod. It means that a separate zip will have to be included for those who want to wipe.
But again, I've yet to get it actually functional. Once it's functional, the performance vs risk can be weighed.
On another note, I've seen talk about DATA2InternalStorage. It certainly makes sense, we've a whole 6GB to play around with, and it should be really fast. However, the added r/w that occurs with DATA2X should drastically reduce life. And since we can't change it out... not a good idea.
The SD card can be changed out very very easily, so a shorter life shouldn't matter too much. And I'm not sure of the logistics, but if internal storage is on the same NAND as /data, then moving writes over to there really won't improve anything.
Anyways, I'm testing v4 now after my phone charges a little more. *crosses fingers.

.

What partition layout is needed for this? Maybe you've already seen it, but I've been following THIS, also.

hopefully this helps with real life performance too. When I compare the inc to the crazy fast new devices out there, I feel a bit jealous. If I see some increased speed/smoothness, it will certainly be worth it for me. Also, will it be possible to get this in a flashable zip format? 1 for AOSP Roms, 1 for Desire Z/HD/MT4G Roms, 1 for old sense based roms or am I smoking the wrong pipe in thinking this way?

overground said:
What partition layout is needed for this? Maybe you've already seen it, but I've been following THIS, also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been tweaking the script to work for the DInc. I had to change the place where it mounts stuff, and I've finally got bootup. However, still a billion force closes. Digging into this...

This is all very interesting and I thank you for taking the time to try and get it to work. I just hope in the end it is worth the effort

I agree! Can't wait to test for you! And again thanks for putting your personal time toward improving our devices!!!

How did it go? Any luck getting it stabilized?
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

khanam said:
How did it go? Any luck getting it stabilized?
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
=[. Noope. Failed failed failed. haha, but at least I'm making some progress. About to try again now, I'm getting closer each time xP

After so many failed attempts, I am forced to give up.
It's too much work for too little gain.
The whole point of DATA2EXT is twofold: Increase /data space for apps, and increase I/O.
The Desire (what this was originally designed for) has a 150mb /data partition. That's hilariously small.
The Inc has a ~700 mb /data partition.
Hilariously huge.
So, the /data space point is moot.
As for the I/O speeds, there are no real-world benefits. Yes, I/O will increase dramatically in Quadrant, but that's it. Quadrant writes a pretty large amount of files to read I/O, so difference in I/O speed helps.
But that's not the case with apps. Apps store their data in /data/data. The whole of which is usually about 170kb. Yes, Kb. Not even an MB. If I write at 1mb/sec, I'm done in about 0.1 seconds. The I/O will increase throughput to ~2.6mb/sec. I'm done in about 0.065 seconds. That's a 0.035 second difference.
Again, that's if EVERY SINGLE app was writing at once. 0.035 seconds. Negligible.
Haha, I do realize I am making such a strong case against it because I couldn't get it to work xD
So, in the end, Cyanogen was right xP It's just a benchmark hack. Real world performance doesn't depend on I/O.

got it. Now it makes more sense. thanks

finally come to the same conclusion?
i worked on it for a bit, did a bit of research, got it to boot.
after researching a bit more-and being stuck at the FCs where you were-i gave up. cost/benefit ratio just wasnt gootd enough

r2DoesInc said:
finally come to the same conclusion?
i worked on it for a bit, did a bit of research, got it to boot.
after researching a bit more-and being stuck at the FCs where you were-i gave up. cost/benefit ratio just wasnt gootd enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha, yeah. It's like there's some hidden mount file that I can't control. bleh. It did get kinda funny, EVERY single app FCed and I tried to tap my way through xD Yeah... didn't work so well xP

gmichaelow said:
Haha, yeah. It's like there's some hidden mount file that I can't control. bleh. It did get kinda funny, EVERY single app FCed and I tried to tap my way through xD Yeah... didn't work so well xP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya, you tap REAL fast and think you got all the way through, get a glimpse of a black screen, the BAM! FC for EVERY single app

RAM managment

guys i know you all heard for this app (Ram manager pro)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smartprojects.RAMOptimization&hl=en
but, i bet lot of you didnt notice a biiiiiig update...now you can swap your RAM on your internal, the fastest partition in our device (not even close to sd card class100)
but, im not sure about it, and i ask for help from developers or android wizz that know this method...
i noticed that this thing works, but, after you swap, you dont have space left...so, iv got partitioned my sd card, only to 256mb, just to check...and it really works again!
Again, but, you need to create swap file right after flashing fresh rom, so it (swap file) occupy internal memory at once! Cause, if you instal some apps, it will use sd ext, and probably go to sd card, wich doesnt make any difference in performance...
Once again, im asking for opinion of expert, to confirm this...
Im using latest jb4.2.2, and best way to check this is to play some game and to listen a music at same time : DIDNT GET FC OR ANY LAG!
tnx in advance
NOTE: don't create swap bigger than 128mb, thats our max internal

Does it really works? Because i used to swap too but it didnt make any difference in performance. The only thing i notice is my phone got hotter alot.....
Sent from my GT-S5570

Nixoman said:
guys i know you all heard for this app (Ram manager pro)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smartprojects.RAMOptimization&hl=en
but, i bet lot of you didnt notice a biiiiiig update...now you can swap your RAM on your internal, the fastest partition in our device (not even close to sd card class100)
but, im not sure about it, and i ask for help from developers or android wizz that know this method...
i noticed that this thing works, but, after you swap, you dont have space left...so, iv got partitioned my sd card, only to 256mb, just to check...and it really works again!
Again, but, you need to create swap file right after flashing fresh rom, so it (swap file) occupy internal memory at once! Cause, if you instal some apps, it will use sd ext, and probably go to sd card, wich doesnt make any difference in performance...
Once again, im asking for opinion of expert, to confirm this...
Im using latest jb4.2.2, and best way to check this is to play some game and to listen a music at same time : DIDNT GET FC OR ANY LAG!
tnx in advance
NOTE: don't create swap bigger than 128mb, thats our max internal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried this last year .....the script was made by custdroid.....
Unfortunately the constant read and write on ROM is not so good for the hardware.. ...so I deprecated the project for mini also with such low internal memory I could create only 32mb swap on internal and the phone soon started yo take its toll ...you may try this but I am sharing my experience cause it may feel smooth for sometime but it reduces the life of your mini considerably cause ROM is supposed to non-volatile unlike RAM which is volatile...
Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

but isnt everytime you start app you writing and reading with data and cache? on internal?

Nixoman said:
but isnt everytime you start app you writing and reading with data and cache? on internal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But is that really as frequent and as comprehensive as RAM?
Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

hsay said:
But is that really as frequent and as comprehensive as RAM?
Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know, only way is to test it by myself, ill report behavior of my mini in one week, iv got nothing to lose, already out of warranty, almost 3 years old, got new nokia n9, i gonna take the bullet for that

Nixoman said:
i don't know, only way is to test it by myself, ill report behavior of my mini in one week, iv got nothing to lose, already out of warranty, almost 3 years old, got new nokia n9, i gonna take the bullet for that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a rhetoric question ....sarcasm if you may ...anyway you may try it....
Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

hsay said:
That was a rhetoric question ....sarcasm if you may ...anyway you may try it....
Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why to be rhetoric when can be (or not) usefull if no harm causing to device? :fingers-crossed: