Bounty $50 for theme porting program for windows - Thunderbolt Themes and Apps

I am willing to pay $50 to anyone who can develop a theme porting program for windows that is catered to the thunderbolt. I know there is the program called theme Porter and theme porter .3 which is usueful but I am looking for something that is more specific to the thunderbolt so that I may port a evo, desire hd, and another other hd plateform based theme to the thunderbolt with ease and accuracy. There may be something that is out there that is similar to what I am looking for but I haven't found it and trust me I have searched and searched but I am empty handed. Droid x has a porting program called "wug" which is nice but it is only for the droid x. Anyways I am willing to pay the money since I love themeing my phone and it is extremely time consuming to create one from scratch, and there aren't enough themes catered to one specific device. Hope someone has sonething !
HTC Thunderbolt
s-off rooted
VirusROM RC1B2

It would be pointless to write up another program when theme porter does anything another porter will anyways.

mob87 said:
It would be pointless to write up another program when theme porter does anything another porter will anyways.
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I think someone out there could come up with something a little better, with some more options. wug is a good example of this. Anyways theme porter is a great script but its old and I am sure someone could come up with something. Dont get me wrong theme porter is nice and the dev who made it deserves alot of credit for his or her work

What does Wug do that theme porter doesnt? All wug is, is a bloated theme porter. They both do the exact same thing.

mob87 said:
What does Wug do that theme porter doesnt? All wug is, is a bloated theme porter. They both do the exact same thing.
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Click to collapse
Yes i see that now. One thing is that it is much more user friendly, you dont have to use a seperate script to make update.zip as well as some other nice features. Anyways again I am sure someone out there could come up with something, I am guessing it wont be you but if anyone does I am willing to pay.

Related

[SOLVED/THANK YOU MODS]moving of themes

frankly: this sucks big time. the theme section is so crowded with themes for all the dream and magic and cyanogen mods, our few hero themes disappear. looking into the theme thread i can only find one(!) theme for the hero on the first page. also the titles are not always indicating clearly for what device/rom the themes were made.
seriously guys, at least give us a subforum for hero themes. i didn't see the problem with posting them here (in the thread called "themes and apps"), are you really expecting me to go through hundreds of themes for the dream, to find the hero themes? come on...
Agree, sucks....
Whats wrong with having the themes for the hero in the thread entitled "HERO Themes and Applications"
It needs to have every post title changed to show what device/ROM its for before its usable.
I agree too, even with edited titles, it's still going to be messy and we'll end up missing most of the themes for Hero as they will just get lost in the flood of G1 themes
I have to agree as-well, the hero themes does not work with any other phone anyway
This sucks...
Yes, it sucks!
I did my first Themes and now nobody can find it.
Have to agree lumping all the themes from different devices together is a big mistake.
I would suggest, that either:
- The themes be left here on the "HTC Hero Themes and Applications";
- Or, that subforums for the phone models be made on the "Android Themes" section.
Agreed, this is a horrible way to compile everything. Only reason I am even posting this is so the mod team can see they made a mistake by the number of people posting about it.
Agreed.
The Hero and G1 themes should be separate.
The G1 has been out a lot longer and it floods the forum (I should know I had one! )
Seriously mods, please rethink your strategy.
Its bad, and its not fair seeing upcoming themes for other devices too lol
While I understand your frustation here, the point is that there is no point in keeping the themes in seperate places.
Almost every theme will run on any rooted phone. Therefore they are being meshed together. Now, Like I've said, Your theme devs, will need to label their posts accordingly so you can sort through them quickly.
For instance, a hero theme would look like this:
[Hero Theme] *title of theme here*
Its a simple thing to do.
This is a benefit to the entire community to do this. Which is why its been done.
Stericson
Every theme runs on every rooted phone??
I can't believe!
No way!
When it is so, I say sorry, but I can't really believe.
we have SenseUI here.
Stericson said:
While I understand your frustation here, the point is that there is no point in keeping the themes in seperate places.
Almost every theme will run on any rooted phone. Therefore they are being meshed together. Now, Like I've said, Your theme devs, will need to label their posts accordingly so you can sort through them quickly.
For instance, a hero theme would look like this:
[Hero Theme] *title of theme here*
Its a simple thing to do.
This is a benefit to the entire community to do this. Which is why its been done.
Stericson
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you are saying that my rooted hero will run any theme made for g1?
but i downloaded themes for dream, sapphire and found out that maximum image names are different. so how will hero run those themes?
then why we make themes for different devices then? why did u guys make seperate theme sections in the 1st place?
Yes every theme will run on a rooted phone PROVIDED you have the apropriate rom loaded for the specific theme on your Rooted phone....
Stericson said:
Yes every theme will run on a rooted phone PROVIDED you have the apropriate rom loaded for the specific theme on your Rooted phone....
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Click to collapse
yeah really funny since we got... wait let me recount... exactly one custom rom for the hero (yes i know there are others, but not really worth to mention).
well i guess we just have to eat the **** they are throwing at us, they are the mods...
Than I don't want to publish my themes here anymore!
It makes now sence, because no one can find them.
for a few days there were many themes at once and every Hero user in this section was happy to use them.
Now....
Sorry, I can see threads and postings from many users, who are not embraced about this changes.
but when the admins and mods are that mind it is better, then we, the themes maker must agree with that.
Admins, mods:
Take it seriously! Everybody thinks, this changes are not good!
carry out soundings of public opinion
Guys lets not give up just yet! I always found xda developers willing to listen to the people in the past after all its THE PEOPLE that make a great forum.
Also try and post comments here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=591137 in one place where our Dream users brothers can also post
Even though I don't like using themes, I cannot see the sense in moving Hero themes to the generic Android themes section. The sub-forum is STILL called 'Hero Themes and Applications' - how ridiculous!
Stericson said:
Yes every theme will run on a rooted phone PROVIDED you have the apropriate rom loaded for the specific theme on your Rooted phone....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So its not true that all themes run on all phones. Your phone has to be rooted, AND it has to have the appropriate ROM loaded for that specific theme.
Goodness. That's kinda a lot to look for in a theme.

why is there a lack of new themes?

i know a theme is hard to make but why is there so many plain themes being made these days
david1985 said:
i know a theme is hard to make but why is there so many plain themes being made these days
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Click to collapse
i guess...get down on your knees and pray for one you like...lol...or post your suggestions of what you would like to see in a theme.
Well I have said in my thread for blinded by faith that says I am open to suggestions and feedback. So if you got any ideas just let me know and I would be more than willing to try to work people's ideas in
Thatguy32404 said:
Well I have said in my thread for blinded by faith that says I am open to suggestions and feedback. So if you got any ideas just let me know and I would be more than willing to try to work people's ideas in
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i dont know how to creat one or i would.. i do graphixs..im just to busy right now to learn that actual details of this and that..
but if any themers wanna get down on a new theme let me know! in a pm! i probably wont find this post anymore lol..
Check out darkstar and experion!
i think they are fairly new and exciting,
i work mostly on darkstar. but try and pop my head in on experion now and again!
Cache
I actually keep saying they should port all the old themes for JF's 1.42 RC33 build. THOSE were effin masterpieces.
Thatguy32404 said:
Well I have said in my thread for blinded by faith that says I am open to suggestions and feedback. So if you got any ideas just let me know and I would be more than willing to try to work people's ideas in
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flashed your theme for the first time yesterday and its tight...i left what little suggestions i could think of for you in your thread lol
i usually use marks theme, mblend, blackice, and now blinded by faith....alternate everyday or 2
Make your own theme: *MOD EDIT* We aren't here to promote other sites.
Edit: PM me if you want to know how to make your own theme and you cant find the info
Lets not promote other sites guys, especially when the appropriate content is already on XDA. I understand referring someone elsewhere when the content is not available on XDA, but when it is available on XDA we need to be referencing that content unless its outdated and not viable any longer.
Stericson
Stericson said:
Lets not promote other sites guys, especially when the appropriate content is already on XDA. I understand referring someone elsewhere when the content is not available on XDA, but when it is available on XDA we need to be referencing that content unless its outdated and not viable any longer.
Stericson
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Click to collapse
well then...opasha's theme isnt on xda......
@ OP, if you want to see opasha's theme, its located here: http://androidoverdrive.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=72
lol
If I knew how to make them this thread wouldn't exist is it just me or are most of these themes made are meant for the adp phone just seems that most of the themes out there are made for the dark g1's.The only themes in my opinion for the white g1 is the alienaqua theme from prash an the plastic theme
Yeah, I have also seen themers come and go. We should encourage them(*cough* donation *cough*). And plus if you already like the theme try to make it better by posting your comment on the theme. Critize the theme. The more ideas you give the better it is for that themer and for that theme. You should check out my thread on final fantasy 7 on xda and on my site mk47.weebly.com for previews to my theme. My site also starting to have font for any rom and theme from my thread. Just check it out and post ideas on other themers thread.
A lot of the themes are terrible. Enoch has the best theme. The rest are ugly, cluttered, or immature.
We are just now starting to see decent minimal themes
i really want to see more unique themes. off the wall ****. and PROFESSIONAL looking artwork done on them. tired of all these amateur themes with terrible photoshop work. but thats my opinion. i love a lot of them at the same time =]
FckingAllen said:
i really want to see more unique themes. off the wall ****. and PROFESSIONAL looking artwork done on them. tired of all these amateur themes with terrible photoshop work. but thats my opinion. i love a lot of them at the same time =]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should help out in the theme making process( not trying to put on a stop). Help with finding a template if you have a great idea tell us themers or post a request. Try to find good artwork and we themers will try to work on it. Like for example systemforce was orginally another artist work but prash liked the idea and used it. Now look at it people were going crazy over that theme ( like I did). I'll see what I could do to hellp you guys out. I am too looking for a cool theme. A user wants me to make systemforce to blue and white. I thought about it and I am starting to customize the theme.
" You could live your life for yourself, or you could help bulid the future." -- busybox(I think that what it said from ddms)
video
I wish someone can make a video on youtube on how to do this I would have no problem making themes I enjoy the features that most of them give.Plus I understand how people feel an the themers feel.I think that most of these themes are just clones of one another with things switched around but @ the end of the day they do this for us.
I can understand not making as many themes right now because CM is releasing new builds all the time,but I sure wish more people would release themes for dwang 1.13,this rom is amazingly fast and stable.
Jerzeeloon said:
I can understand not making as many themes right now because CM is releasing new builds all the time,but I sure wish more people would release themes for dwang 1.13,this rom is amazingly fast and stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would make themes for that rom, but i don't like it because i can't adb push my apps to the /system/sd/app the way i can on cyanongen's rom. this is because i wipe my data and my ext before switching from cyan's to dwang's and that's the problem i ran into. i could push them to /data/app but that is on internal memory and that's bad. if someone could PM me on how to fix this issue, i'd gladly switch over to that rom and makes themes for it .
opasha said:
i would make themes for that rom, but i don't like it because i can't adb push my apps to the /system/sd/app the way i can on cyanongen's rom. this is because i wipe my data and my ext before switching from cyan's to dwang's and that's the problem i ran into. i could push them to /data/app but that is on internal memory and that's bad. if someone could PM me on how to fix this issue, i'd gladly switch over to that rom and makes themes for it .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To add to that, try Metamorph. It lets you theme your phone with bits and pieces you would like.....especially if you like white themes. More and more themers are adding their bits so soon we will be able to make our own themes without the knowledge of how to produce them!
nevermind fixed my ext to have the push work . ill try and port themes to dwang soon.

Theme Request: Girly Theme's

Just rooted my wife's Eris and now I've hooked her into modding her phone. She was looking around at some different themes and found the Droiddoespink rom. I know there are alot of dev's out there that only like to theme thier personal rom but for the sake of being truely customizable it would be super beneficial if we could get zip aligned themes only.
I'm specifically looking for theme's like droiddoespink or possibly purple color theme's or other Girly type theme's. I know it's hard to develop a theme that could apply to multiple rom's but if the great themer's on the forum here could pick maybe the most popular rom's and theme them we could choose which rom.....and which theme we would like.
I tend to like .zip aligned theme's better than metamorph because I feel it's easier and there is less to do (and less to go wrong) when installing.
Anyone that can provide me with something, Thanks in advance and I would greatly appreciate it!
MetaMorph is actually better for going across ROMs as for what you are asking, a custom framework apk and update would have to be made for each ROM. MetaMorph causes less damage and can be easier for all users across.
If you want to learn how to do either, I can teach you. Will only take a few mins and you will be surprised how easy it really is. PM me if you are interested. I am done themeing for the Eris as I sold mine but I never mind teaching people. I always say more themers the better.
If you want to let DroidKevlar teach you how to make the metamorph file It would be fine with me if you or anyone else that wants too pull the png's from my DroidDoesPink rom and make it into a metamorph file....I just don't have the time to do it myself.
Link for conaps theme? I might have some free time before I get my d1
Sent from my Kevlar FROYO
droidkevlar said:
Link for conaps theme? I might have some free time before I get my d1
Sent from my Kevlar FROYO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here
10 char
Renocat said:
Here
10 char
Click to expand...
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Give me a few days. Ill try to finish it before I go on my trip this weekend.
Which ROM do you guys want this for? 2.1 based or CM/2.2 based?
Was going to do this but gotta love @$$hole users. Im done with all this. If anyone wants help doing it, hit me up, but me putting my time for free to do this, not so much anymore. I lost that love. Sorry guys. But it will be pretty simple, just time consuming. Conap has given the OK to do it so anyone can do this. Just make sure you give him credit.
My wife would love this theme. I have done some html and java/javascript back in the day. I have no idea where to even start with this. Ive got a little time and maybe a little money for coffee...lol. Looked at the Droid Does Pink and my wife thought it was awesome.

[WIP][Updated] Fresh, Clean, Bright & Inspired.

Okay so first of all, let me just say, I have no idea when it comes to creating a theme for any platform, so nothing I post up here will never be created because I just don't 1, have the time to learn how-to and 2, I don't want to learn how to, excuse my ignorance.
However, I do know my way around photoshop, so with a spare hour at work today, I started to create this.
By all means, if someone with the knowledge wants to take a shot at converting this, go for it, just let me know before you do .
*Few more icons added!
*What the homescreen could/might look like.
It's very simple and eye attractive, looks good. i can't do anything though, same as you in that department.
Clearly this isn't going to go anywhere, worth a try though.
Sadly, I do not have any practical experience in this subject, but this topic does have a tutorial on what you need to do http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8504851&postcount=2(the topic currently says that the tutorial is 'temporarily down..' so just keep checking it, I would assume he is modifying the tutorial to make it work with gingerbread roms) To create the battery and the white app slider background, you would need to modify the Framework.res.apk
I think this theme looks great, although I do not know the limitations of themeing in sense 2.1 roms; so may need to ask an experienced themer on which method to take, flashable.zip or Skin Chooser theme.. My best advice is to ask the guy who made the thread I linked to you, as he has converted many themes, if he has the time; and you can supply the images, you'll have a working theme in no time
I already cooked the frameword-res.apk last night, it looks odd because the kitchen doesn't theme the recent apps section so that has got the carbon black look that Sense has, I think the theme would be really nice and clean, and could be done in a variety of colours to treat each persons needs. Simple and effective!
If anyone would like the cooked framework let me know, like I said, it's far from done. We'll call it Version 0.0.0.1
Looks really nice, clean and minimal
Would like to se it finished and in some darker color - greyish
That's what I was just saying, in a variety of colours so each user could choose their own from a selection. Like I said, I'd happily finish creating this but only if it's going to go somewhere.
exyljr said:
That's what I was just saying, in a variety of colours so each user could choose their own from a selection. Like I said, I'd happily finish creating this but only if it's going to go somewhere.
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Click to collapse
LOL writing while you posting
Maybe you could pm he_stheone64 about help to do this, he knows his way around theming with the new gingerbread framework. As I understand a few things has changed from the old 2.1 to the new 2.3 release.
Hope this will succeed for you
I don't WANT to approach anyone, if someone has some spare time on their hands and wants something to do, I'm sure someone will say they would like to convert this for us. All I want to know is whether or not I should finish the PSD's, VOYE VOTE VOTE
exyljr said:
I don't WANT to approach anyone, if someone has some spare time on their hands and wants something to do, I'm sure someone will say they would like to convert this for us. All I want to know is whether or not I should finish the PSD's, VOYE VOTE VOTE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohh you misunderstood me I didn't mean that should approach him for him to do this theme, just as a heads up for you to get help on how to theme. My bad I misread your first post
Nah it's cool, don't worry about it lol, if enough people want this finishing, I probably wil contact someone to see if they would like to collaborate on it.
it cool dude it looks facebooky
imsid said:
it cool dude it looks facebooky
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Click to collapse
Hence the 'Inspired' in the title

Some_sense_pro_v1

The Missing Rom, Sense 1, 2,3 are more than just HTC's UI. They are the way we Interact with our Incredible. As i write this There are Dev's and Dev teams making great strides on what they feel will be the greatest ROM. I have spent many years working on car project only to find that I am never happy with it. A good projects are never finished. With all the Sense rom's you get flavors of sense. With the senseless roms you get no Sense. With this rom you get some Sense and Launcher Pro. I have removed everything that doesn't work with Launcher Pro.
This is my first shot at a Rom, I plan to continue learning and devolving.
Sense widgets gone
Battery draining apps gone
Rom zip file is less than 110 MB
Sense clock and calander still there
camera works
If you want apps install them, the market is full.
Thanks to Jakresge, and every Dev. on this site.
http://db.tt/dwaOmCn
From a computer running Windows XP
reserved.............
I am a bit confused as to what this is?
Sense 1, rose removed, launcher pro added, Rom
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
tjamscad said:
Sense 1, rose removed, launcher pro added, Rom
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...That's it?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
solarpolitiks said:
...That's it?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it works
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
Hmmmm...
¦*¦HYBRID¦*¦SPEED¦*¦ by ws83
I request to have this thread removed. No offense to the OP - but adding a different launcher and some other minor tweaks does not justify a ROM.
Thank you for your creativity and time spent on your project though.
Lmao ill try it..why not? Maybe its good you never know
Sent from my Dinc
tincbtrar said:
I request to have this thread removed. No offense to the OP - but adding a different launcher and some other minor tweaks does not justify a ROM.
Thank you for your creativity and time spent on your project though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
Give it a chance guys. What have all sense 1 roms done? Changed little from stock? Exactly.
Youre looking at a crackflashing troll with ORD
No offense either bud. Its just... well... how exactly did you create "your ROM" on your phone?
Did you do a nand and then expect people to flash your back-up?
I don't understand what your doing or why. Normally ROM development takes place on a computer with some knowledge of how things work in these ROMs so we can make them better. And to make them more appealing to the other users of these forums or whoever.
Simply installing Launcher Pro or whatever else does not meen you have created a ROM. You have just installed Launcher Pro to a ROM, that is all.
However, if you would like to get into "real" ROM development there are a many valuable tools and resources in theses very forums to help you get started. Not to mention the devs that roam around here as well that would more than likely be willing to pull you to the side and help you out, provided you just ask them.
I want you to pay attention to this next part ok? The name of this website is called xda- wait for it... wait for it... "DEVELOPERS" yup, xda-developers. Not xda-I installed launcher pro to some craptastic ROM and I expect people to actually use it.com
Until then friend, maybe you should try something else.
Done.
watt9493 said:
Give it a chance guys. What have all sense 1 roms done? Changed little from stock? Exactly.
Youre looking at a crackflashing troll with ORD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not just that but if you remove rosie, why not all HTC widgets, etc?
This is literally deleting one APK and pasting another in its place.
wildstang83 said:
No offense either bud. Its just... well... how exactly did you create "your ROM" on your phone?
Did you do a nand and then expect people to flash your back-up?
I don't understand what your doing or why. Normally ROM development takes place on a computer with some knowledge of how things work in these ROMs so we can make them better. And to make them more appealing to the other users of these forums or whoever.
Simply installing Launcher Pro or whatever else does not meen you have created a ROM. You have just installed Launcher Pro to a ROM, that is all.
However, if you would like to get into "real" ROM development there are a many valuable tools and resources in theses very forums to help you get started. Not to mention the devs that roam around here as well that would more than likely be willing to pull you to the side and help you out, provided you just ask them.
I want you to pay attention to this next part ok? The name of this website is called xda- wait for it... wait for it... "DEVELOPERS" yup, xda-developers. Not xda-I installed launcher pro to some craptastic ROM and I expect people to actually use it.com
Until then friend, maybe you should try something else.
Done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A little harsh but funny. Gotta give the guy props for having the balls to post it. I myself made many kitchen built ROMs for personal use and never dared post them. Appears to me that many of the custom ROMSs here are just kitchen builds so what one more?
kzoodroid said:
Appears to me that many of the custom ROMSs here are just kitchen builds so what one more?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually no. No offense bud but I don't think any of the seasoned devs on here use the kitchen to "build" a ROM. All the devs I work with manually port our ROMs peice by peice. Less error in the long run. The only reason I have ever used the kitchen is to deodex, zipalign and sign. I don't even hardly use it for that anymore. 9 times out of 10 the kitchen is not capable of doing the things that we do to our ROMs.
Never ment to crush dreams or whatever with my first response, I just think if we are going to do something that makes changes to or effects other peoples devices we should take the time and do it right.
wildstang83 said:
Actually no. No offense bud but I don't think any of the seasoned devs on here use the kitchen to "build" a ROM. All the devs I work with manually port our ROMs peice by peice. Less error in the long run. The only reason I have ever used the kitchen is to deodex, zipalign and sign. I don't even hardly use it for that anymore. 9 times out of 10 the kitchen is not capable of doing the things that we do to our ROMs.
Never ment to crush dreams or whatever with my first response, I just think if we are going to do something that makes changes to or effects other peoples devices we should take the time and do it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that mean you didn't flash it? We all start somewhere. I did not mean to insult anyone. But there is a gap in the Rom selections. I like some of the sense apps that you lose when going senseless. I also don't like the button layout of sense. And the battery draining sense widgets. That is what I have done filled a hole
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
wildstang83 said:
Actually no. No offense bud but I don't think any of the seasoned devs on here use the kitchen to "build" a ROM. All the devs I work with manually port our ROMs peice by peice. Less error in the long run. The only reason I have ever used the kitchen is to deodex, zipalign and sign. I don't even hardly use it for that anymore. 9 times out of 10 the kitchen is not capable of doing the things that we do to our ROMs.
Never ment to crush dreams or whatever with my first response, I just think if we are going to do something that makes changes to or effects other peoples devices we should take the time and do it right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know that your building your own ROMs. Its hard to tell from all thats posted who to trust as a dev and who's just a hack. No offense to the op. CaptainKrtek had a post in the Eris forum last year about what it takes to be a real dev here, wish I could find it again had some good info in it.
I will update my op I was more/less saying that I am new to this kinda thing and don't call myself a developer like a nurse doesn't call themselves Doctor, or a drafter doesn't call themselves an engineer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
kzoodroid said:
Good to know that your building your own ROMs. Its hard to tell from all thats posted who to trust as a dev and who's just a hack. No offense to the op. CaptainKrtek had a post in the Eris forum last year about what it takes to be a real dev here, wish I could find it again had some good info in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread? Second post....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1121585
tjamscad said:
I will update my op I was more/less saying that I am new to this kinda thing and don't call myself a developer like a nurse doesn't call themselves Doctor, or a drafter doesn't call themselves an engineer.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you really want to be a dev then start hanging out in chef central. The advice I had originally said came form captainkrtek actually was from cyanogen. I read it over a year ago when I was playing with dsixda's kitchen and thought of posting my own ROM. I posted a link below as I think its appropriate. Not sure why our dev section here isn't as nice as the Eris forum, they have a lot more info over there and being a former Eris owner I miss it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=667298

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