hello. i'm faced with a problem: i have my i9000 for about 1 year; never rooted it; only update my operating system 2 times via samsung kies when i got the message that a new firmware was available while connecting my phone to my pc (now i have PDA:JS4 / PHONE:JPY / CSC:JS1 (ORO)); and for some time now the phone discharges very fast; lasts about 8 hours; i use it at a medium pace: making phone calls, writing sms and replying on messenger if someone gives me an instant message and every now and then i listen to some music when i'm going somewhere, besides that i don't use it much; and i don't have programs running in the background except for the accounts sync system for yahoo mail, gmail and yahoo messenger. so i decided to recalibrate my battery to see if it lasts longer. i got android terminal emulator from the market but the problem is i don't have access to delete the batterystats.bin since the phone is not rooted. so here are a few questions:
1. should i root my phone just so i can delete this file ?
2. which of the 2 methods works best for battery recalibration ? the one where you charge your phone till 100% while it's on then switch off and charge some more ? or the one where you let the phone die and the charge completely while it's off ? (i ask this because browsing the forums i see everyone saying a different thing about this topic)
3. if i decide to root my phone to be able to delete the above mentioned file, should i install one of those user made operating systems (i think they are called ROMs) that has a lower battery consumption rate ? (i don't know how to do it but i think i can manage following the tutorials on this forums). i saw in a poll that darkys operating system has the lower battery consumption. is that correct ?
thanks for reading this long threat and taking your time to reply to it!
1.) I would do so. With root access you do much more cool things.
2.) In Darky's forum (darkyrom.com) you can find a good manual for calibrating.
3.) Custom-ROMs have some features stick-ROMs don't have. At the moment you have a branded phone (branded by Orange?). Some ROMs need quite less battery (Juwe's for example).
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
andrei.locic said:
hello. i'm faced with a problem: i have my i9000 for about 1 year; never rooted it; only update my operating system 2 times via samsung kies when i got the message that a new firmware was available while connecting my phone to my pc (now i have PDA:JS4 / PHONE:JPY / CSC:JS1 (ORO)); and for some time now the phone discharges very fast; lasts about 8 hours; i use it at a medium pace: making phone calls, writing sms and replying on messenger if someone gives me an instant message and every now and then i listen to some music when i'm going somewhere, besides that i don't use it much; and i don't have programs running in the background except for the accounts sync system for yahoo mail, gmail and yahoo messenger. so i decided to recalibrate my battery to see if it lasts longer. i got android terminal emulator from the market but the problem is i don't have access to delete the batterystats.bin since the phone is not rooted. so here are a few questions:
1. should i root my phone just so i can delete this file ?
2. which of the 2 methods works best for battery recalibration ? the one where you charge your phone till 100% while it's on then switch off and charge some more ? or the one where you let the phone die and the charge completely while it's off ? (i ask this because browsing the forums i see everyone saying a different thing about this topic)
3. if i decide to root my phone to be able to delete the above mentioned file, should i install one of those user made operating systems (i think they are called ROMs) that has a lower battery consumption rate ? (i don't know how to do it but i think i can manage following the tutorials on this forums). i saw in a poll that darkys operating system has the lower battery consumption. is that correct ?
thanks for reading this long threat and taking your time to reply to it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.
Download Links
1. Ficeto_Deodexed_JVH_I9000_ODIN.zip
http://www.multiupload.com/RV3OOVHU79
2. Darkys_v10.1_Extreme_Edition.zip
http://www.multiupload.com/8OUDK2OC14
How to Install
Unzip Ficeto_Deodexed_JVH_I9000_ODIN.zip
- Open Odin
- For PIT select \Ficeto_Deodexed_JVH_I9000_ODIN\s1_odin_20100512.pit
- For PDA select \Ficeto_Deodexed_JVH_I9000_ODIN\Ficeto_Deodexed_JVH_I9000.tar
- Tick Re-partition
- Reboot the phone in Download mode (SW Off the phone and press VOLUME DOWN + HOME + POWER)
- Plug the phone to the PC
- Click on Start
- Wait until it boots by itself
- Unplug
Next step is to flash Darkys_v10.1_Extreme_Edition.zip
- Download & open the DarkyROM Configurator
- Select the recommended kernel (Darkcore 2.4)
- Copy Darkys_v10.1_Extreme_Edition.zip into phone memory
- Reboot in Recovery (Long press the power button you can see the option for recovery)
- Install zip from sdcard
- Choose zip from sdcard
- Select Darkys_v10.1_Extreme_Edition.zip
- Yes
Once it finish reboot the system...
2.
- Charge your battery full, bump charge to get the highest level possible ; note that it's not a big deal if it shows 97% when you unplug after bump-charging
- Drain your battery to 0% until it shuts down by itself (without plugging the charger or connecting the phone to a pc)
- Wait 2 minutes and reboot the phone to ensure the battery is completely flat (it might reboot fully, half way, not at all, don't worry) until it dies again
- Remove the battery and wait 2 minutes
- Replace the battery and plug the charger without switching the phone on until it shows 100%
- When phone shows 100%, boot in recovery (volume up + home + power) and go to > Advanced > Wipe Battery Stats > Confirm (move up/down using the volume keys)
- Reboot the phone and unplug the charger when the "battery full notification" comes (wait for the notification before you unplug the charger)
- Now use your phone until the battery is flat again and charge full (no need to have it turned off, unless you it to charge faster). Repeat 2 or 3 times and your battery will be calibrated
- Only wipe battery stats once, run a few cycles of full charge / discharge and after that just use your phone as normal (i.e. no need to deplete / charge fully anymore).
Related
Having seen so many posts on calibration of battery, i have decided to make this thread so to make it easier and useful for you guys. This thread can also be used to share your experiences with calibration and usage of milestone's battery.
Note: This is done using a the motorola milestone 1. So if you're using any other phone, pls ask abt them in this thread b4 you do anything!!!!
Intro:
The calibration of the battery is needed when you want to switch/install roms. This will make sure that the battery is really fully charged, thus preventing the battery life from dropping too drastically in a matter of hours.
I know there are some other methods to help calibrate your battery, but this is the only one I am sure of the steps. Please inform me of the other methods so to share with everybody.
Steps:
1. Before flashing a new rom, use root explorer (with read/write set) to delete the file "batterystats.bin" stored in /data/system/.
2. Charge your phone with it being turned off.
3. After it is fully charged(100%), take out its battery without plugging off the power supply.
4. Wait for a few moments, and a ? sign will appear.
5. Put your battery back in. You should see that the battery percentage increases quickly to 60%. If it increases to 100% with seconds, please skip to step 6.
6. If it stops increasing at 60%, let the phone continue to charge until 100%(takes quite a while)
7. Once it reaches 100%, let it charge for a further 15-20 minutes.
8. Once that's done, you can boot to OpenRecovery and flash your rom!!!
Alternative way of calibration(thanks a lot zeppelinrox!!!):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11803458&postcount=10
This method allows you to calibrate the battery and use ur phone at the same time!!!
I hope this helps you people, because it really helped me!!!!
Note: i m not responsible for anything bad that happens to ur phone. Perform the calibration at ur own risk!!!(though it should be perfectly fine, unless u do something wrong or extra)
Btw, i am just writing things that i assume to be correct, so if anything needs to be edited/added, pls inform me through this thread or sending me a pm.
Credits to everyone (especially pcphobic for his post in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11604143&postcount=740) who have written all these in your posts that made it possible for me to gather and get all this info!!!!!!
You should give credits to whom you copied this from.
oh yea i almost forgot.Thx fellow citizen!!!!
And it's good to remove/wipe the battery status data with the charger plug-in as the last step.
thx bnwg, but i don't get you. Mind if you make yourself clearer? Thx!!!!
nickrule1896 said:
thx bnwg, but i don't get you. Mind if you make yourself clearer? Thx!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's referring to deleting the batterystats.bin file from the /data/system folder.
Yup, got it thx!!!!
mount -a
rm /data/system/batterystats.bin
For this set of instructions, can the console in the OR be used to perform it?
mods should make this thread a stickie.
Calibrating Without Downtime!
Edit: If this doesn't work on your device, try the Die-Hard Battery Calibrator Script to ensure a proper charge
This is proven to work with Motorola Milestone so I would imagine the Droid as well.
It works with the Milestone 2 but you may need to get the phone booted up manually (step 7) instead of the easy reboot in step 6.
If you have a different phone and this works, please let us know!
You probably won't believe that this will work but try it anyway.
The big benefit of doing it this way:
It's great if you don't plan on changing roms and just want to calibrate your battery without downtime so that you can just use your phone as you normally would.
Note: Be sure that the phone isn't running hot (feel the back)
1. While in Android, charge up to 100% and leave the phone plugged in.
2. Delete /data/system/batterystats.bin
3. Remove back cover
4. Press Power and choose to reboot normally.
5. When the screen goes black and the lights go out, pull out the battery before you get the M logo. It will probably still work after the M logo shows up but that's how I do it.
6. Surprise: The phone will boot up without the battery! - Mine does - every time
Note: Batterystats.bin is recreated when you see the M logo - even though the battery isn't in the phone.
Go to Step 8 if the phone booted up as described.
7. If it doesn't boot up and you see the battery with the ?
..........a) Put the battery back in (you will see 60%),
..........b) Power off the phone (press power until LED light goes out)
..........c) Power on the phone (press power until you see the M logo)
..........d) Remove battery... and watch bootanimation...
8. a) After the surprise of seeing the boot animation without a battery, you will then see the lock screen along with a "No SIM card error" and no signal.
...... Put the battery back in - the SIM card error will disappear, you will get a signal, it will show 60% full and the icon will show the battery charging.
...... Go to Step 9 if this works as planned. If it doesn't, reboot (again without the battery) and use step 8b instead of step 8a.
... b) Put the battery back in during the bootanimation, but after the haptic feedback/vibration (and the buttons along the bottom light up).
....... On a normal reboot, you can actually slide and unlock the phone when you get the vibration during the boot animation. You knew that, right?
9. Use your phone normally while you calibrate the battery
10. Let it fill it up to 100% + 15 minutes or so. When it is truly finished charging, the battery should be cool.
11. If the phone is running hot, weird things can happen. For example, you may get no signal when you put the battery back in or the battery doesn't begin charging (the status bar battery icon doesn't change). Just let the phone cool off and it should work next time.
100% full is approximately 4200mV
As you can see in the cap below, it's showing only 60% at 4241mV (This was after booting up without the battery and putting the battery in)
A few minutes later, still plugged in, it showed 100% at 4225mV and then it went up to 4230mV.
Finally, I then unplugged the phone and I got a reading of 4196mV
Notes:
Now, when I charge it up, it will go up to 4230mV everytime. I leave it plugged in an extra few minutes after that.
I highly recommend Battery Monitor Widget
Batterystats.bin gets recreated if you unplug your phone and plug it in again. So don't do that. Let it get recreated on the M logo (Step 6).
Thanks to pcphobic for a couple of important tips and to pcphobic and sileshn both for confirming that my phone isn't possessed!
Azhad (one of the two Androidiani OR developers) said another way to wipe battery
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11715432&postcount=967
now i don't know what's the right one? delete batterystats.bin or battd folder's contents? with full or empty battery?
nickrule1896 said:
Credits to everyone who have written all these in your posts that made it possible for me to gather and get all this info!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would have been nice if you mentioned my name or put a source link to my posting dated 24th February 2011 at
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11604143&postcount=740
etoy said:
Azhad (one of the two Androidiani OR developers) said another way to wipe battery
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11715432&postcount=967
now i don't know what's the right one? delete batterystats.bin or battd folder's contents? with full or empty battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Recently I follow Azhad's way to wipe the battery.
When I delete the file (ie. cc_data) under that folder and go back in it, the file will be regenerated. And the batterystats.bin is updated according to the timestamp of the newly generated cc-data file. I don't know if this is the same as the step 6 from zeppelinrox's method.
etoy said:
Azhad (one of the two Androidiani OR developers) said another way to wipe battery
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11715432&postcount=967
now i don't know what's the right one? delete batterystats.bin or battd folder's contents? with full or empty battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe that's the method for CM7? I don't know because I'm a die hard CM6er lol
He also mentions a file (/data/system/batterystats.bis) that I've never seen mentioned before.
bnwg said:
Recently I follow Azhad's way to wipe the battery.
When I delete the file (ie. cc_data) under that folder and go back in it, the file will be regenerated. And the batterystats.bin is updated according to the timestamp of the newly generated cc-data file. I don't know if this is the same as the step 6 from zeppelinrox's method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have that cc_data file too but it's blank when I open it with a text editor.
im just linking my post here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11603675&postcount=736
the myth about the batterysoftware needs some real facts. payce from german forum did some measuring with real astonishing results.
I have seen that article before.. thanks to you of course
I'll quote the conclusion of the first post:
That is, the stone over-estimated the voltage at the battery is full by ~ 60 mV and underestimated the power of up to 100 mV with an empty battery. The intent is well-battery protection (which is good too). It is pretended that 3.0 and 4.2 volts to discharge until it is loaded. In reality, there are more 3.1 volts and 4.15 volts (which by the way of battery manufacturers also better unanimous opinion!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the reading I get via Battery Monitor Widget aren't that far off and perhaps exactly where they're supposed to be.
After fully charging (showing 4230mV while plugged in) and then uplugging the phone, it will ideally show between 4150mV and 4200mV vs the 4.15 volts (ie. 4150mV) quoted above.
My phone will power itself off between 3150mV and 3200mV vs the 3.1 volts (3100mV) quoted above. Actually, I just checked BMW's log and today it powered itself off at 3162mV after 19.5 hrs.
I found it interesting that you use less power while downloading overclocked versus downloading at stock speed lol.
ABC: Android Battery Calibration - Video Guide
youtube.com/watch?v=fwrZu0DKp2c[/url]
@zeppelinrox: wouldnt ur steps be the same as doing the calibration my way, just that instead of booting to OR for flashing new rom, we just reboot normally?
@pcphobic: sry cos it would be hard for me to go around checking who posted this kind of info before. well, since u said it, i will definitely do it
nickrule1896 said:
@zeppelinrox: wouldnt ur steps be the same as doing the calibration my way, just that instead of booting to OR for flashing new rom, we just reboot normally?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it would calibrate either way.
The difference is that I found a way to do it more conveniently.
You can do it anytime, use your phone normally and actually monitor the voltage as well.
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
zeppelinrox said:
Of course it would calibrate either way.
The difference is that I found a way to do it more conveniently.
You can do it anytime, use your phone normally and actually monitor the voltage as well.
Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am using MS2 and there isn't an option of "reboot" when pressing the power button. Can this be done by using the "quick boot" app? thanks
https://market.android.com/details?id=com.siriusapplications.quickboot&feature=search_result
My battery status drop significant after unplug from charger. When charge it show 100% full, the moment unplug drop become 81% How to fix this?
i also have the same problem and im getting pretty pissed off, phones plugged in all night, unplug from 100% and it drops to 88%.
meanwhile my battery widget still says discharging from 100% and the time i unplugged the phone at n
It happens to my handset also. This started after upgrading it to 2.3.3 and this behavior i am observing from Day-1 of the update.
The battery drain has increased alot after the update and i am forced to charge the mobile twice atleast in a day.
It is really surprising the big names "SAMSUNG" & "GOOGLE", what they are doing?
Whether the time has come for the GOOGLE to introspect their raise?
--imax98
Take a look at this:
Battery Drain after full charge with charger connected on a GB OS image
I also happened to me, after a few reserch i found that when you install a custom rom, you have to calibrate battery, so it shows and charges acurrately, you can find lots of info in this forum, or you can try with an app called Battery calibration ROOT RIGHTS NEEDED.
the battery drain issue i found an article saying that it happens when uprgading to 2.3.3, it happened to me, it drained 10% an hour in sleep mode, after the fix it drains 0-5% in a 10h sleep mode.
Android OS bug on Gingerbread ROMs
This is the most annoying Samsung/Android bug.
A good few people have been seeing battery drain on Gingerbread. It comes randomly and apparently once it starts the only way to stop it is to reboot... But it comes back after a while
You can identify this drain by checking the Battery Use in Settings : if Android OS is above 20%, often between 40 and 60% of the battery consumption while your phone has been idle most of the time, then that's it.
The good news is that there is a semi-fix found in XDA: 2 system apps are responsible for this leak, here's what to do using Titanium Backup :
Find Software Update & Samsung Account, select them one by one and "Clear Data". Now you need to freeze Software Update (if you have the Pro version of Titanium Backup) or to backup the app and delete it. Since you don't delete the backup, it's like a freeze. (But keep the backup in case you want it back for some obscure reason)
Or simply use the default app manager to clear the data and Root Explorer to backup/delete Software Update.
If the Android OS battery drain comes back after freezing/deleting the 2 apps above then I suggest you read about the app below. You can back it up and delete it as well and see if it improves:
wssyncmlnps.apk (info) - make a backup in case.
But the AOS BUG will probably keep coming because there is no proper fix to it (Google bug fixed on 2.3.4).
Please share your findings posting in this thread so everybody can know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you want the full guide search in darky's rom forum battery life, and its a guide. I cant post links outside the forum bc im new.
Of course you need root access. IT WORKED GREAT FOR ME. I have darkyrom 10.1 w/2.3.3 android. I do recommend to backup Software Update, Samsung account and wssyncmlnps.apk And then delete them. Reboot, and let everything loads correctly. Charge your Phone to 100%, and after a few minutes after, check the battery usage and it should be not draining battery as it was.
It's a gb problem for some of us. In short, when charging hits 100% while the display still shows 100%, the charging actually turns off, but the phone still thinks it's on charge and cpu usage etc can be very very high. The worst I've had is unplugging it in the morning to have it drop to 30%, although around the 80 to 90% is the norm. It should only drop to between 97 to 99% on unplug. That's normal.
Until sammy fixes it it will be a flaw with 2.3.3 and 2.3.4 for some of us.
I'll add, I have a galaxy tab (got it a week ago) and it does not have this problem.
hello guys
updated my phone to 2.3.6 using this guide
http://droidangel.blogspot.com/2012/01/i9000xxjvu-android-236-upgrade-for.html
but phone only lasts half a day now
could you guys point me in the right direction to were i can get a better rom please
i just play the odd game and then use the web/
im a bit off a noob so i need a guide were i can just download the 3 files put them in odin and off it goes.
if you guys could help me i would be eternal great full
Just keep using your phone for a couple of days... it'll get better...!!!
mnm9994u said:
Just keep using your phone for a couple of days... it'll get better...!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How?
The phone is not new. Been no this Rom for about a week
I used this quide and all OK...
After the update:
In recovery mode, select options Wipe data/factory reset and also you need to select Wipe Cache partition and also you need to select the option of “Clear Dalvik Cache” after which you need to reboot your device by selecting reboot system now after which all the cache files will get deleted.
You already tried calibrating the battery? And when you install a new ROM you generally have to wait a few days for the battery reaches its normal duration.
the best battery life i have ever had was on MIUI. It was like two days ... no problem. i heard for some guys it was even up to four days.
you are on a gingerbread bootloader, so its no problem to flash MIUI with a *.zip file in recovery. just search the forum here for a good version.
to do:
-glitch kernel
-download a governor ("conservative" or "ondemand")
-two apps from the market: CPU tuner, CPU spy
-search for tutorials for CPU tuner
=> fixed your problems
if you have flashed yout rom with your battery not fully charged, you have to calibrate your battery
And also doing 3-4 full charge
yes, u need to do full discharge recharge cycles 2-3 times... wipe battery stats after that from recovery mode on full 100% charge.
Hope this helps
I have two phones. Both running same Rom but i only use one phone. The other i charge the battery in
only just had to do that since the update.
So the batterys are always fully discharged and recharge.
I didn't know about calibrating the battery ill look into that now.
Thanks for the advice.
Just calibrated the battery fingers crossed this work. Half a day for a phone to last is poor.
Was thinking this is like the iphone
when you guys have fully charged your phones and you go into better status how many how's does it say it has left.
Is it random?
Mine says 40 hours
edit lol now it says 7 mins 40 seconds but battery is still full
koooowweeee said:
Just calibrated the battery fingers crossed this work. Half a day for a phone to last is poor.
Was thinking this is like the iphone
when you guys have fully charged your phones and you go into better status how many how's does it say it has left.
Is it random?
Mine says 40 hours
edit lol now it says 7 mins 40 seconds but battery is still full
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still didn´t gave the time battery needs to settle down. In a couple of days you will see that battery will again last for 2 days easly.
For a better rom that you ask on the first post find it on i9000 development forum. There you have roms with different specs. Choose and test them for yourself and see wich fits you best.
I should say for you to test the Hybrid.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1200177
Turning off most app synchronizing (settings » account & synchronisation settings) is making a big difference as well, at least to me. Just disable automatic synchronisation (keep background synchronisation on), and turn it off for all apps. Saves me quite some hours of battery. I'm assuming the update reset all your synchronisation to ON. I'm never using the word synchronisation again, pfft.
hello koooowweeee
Try BatteryCalibration (market) or.
1. Connect the charger to the phone while it is on, and let the load be up to 100%.
2. Unplug the charger and turn off the phone.
3. Reconnect the charger while the phone is off, and leave the task until it shows 100% again.
4. Unplug the charger, then turn the phone, wait for it to boot completely, then turn it off
5. Reconnect the phone to the charger (always off) and wait until it returns to 100%.
6. Disconnect the charger, turn on the phone with flight-+ power to access the Recovery.
Once in recovery, go to Advanced, and make a Wipe Battery Stats, then reboot the phone.
or flash CM7 7.0.2 Kang!
@ +
Well been using my phone all day and battery has lasted so far. Its on 13% now which is better than it was
ill try the method above tomorrow morning and see if that's better
the guide i seen on here was to charge battery to 100% then take the charger out and battery for 90 seconds then put it back in.
Seems to have worked
Hi, i dont know if i am on the rightt topic but anyway i hope i will get an answer here, my galaxy S after few custom roms installed & reinstalled & with battstat reset few times now after i came back to stock rom 2.3.6 & even before the battery sustain good, but just when i try to play a game or use it on store for while (few minutes) the phone turn off, & when i bk it on it says battery low put in charger despite it is 100% full & after a while it increase & level up to the original status, so my question is, is the phone need calibration or anysort of bug fix or it is hardware problem; thnx cheers
Have you checked the contact points between the phone and the battery, maybe just give them a clean, and yes there's no harm in calibrating the battery, just boot into recovery and wipe battery stats.
(don't charge the battery until the battery turns off your phone)
1. charge the battery FULLY
2. boot device to CWM Recovery
3. advanced/Wipe Battery Stats
4. reboot device
Hello,
I'm running stock Rom (rooted) and no sd-card, and I have a few qestions:
1. even if there are 500mb free space left I cant update apps or install new ones, can I remove this limitation?
2. I use skiplock, and when I unlock the phone at home (sliding to the right side) it vibrates, I cant find an option to disable this.
3. I have a very high battery drain, even when it is connected to the charger an the screen is on (lowest brightness) the battery is draining very slowly and not charging.
4. maybe more to come.
1. I would like to have answer for this question too.
3. You have something really not right with Your phone or charger. This situation can happens only when You have GPS and/or WiFi and/or BT ON and active.
DerNetzreporter said:
Hello,
I'm running stock Rom (rooted) and no sd-card, and I have a few qestions:
1. even if there are 500mb free space left I cant update apps or install new ones, can I remove this limitation?
2. I use skiplock, and when I unlock the phone at home (sliding to the right side) it vibrates, I cant find an option to disable this.
3. I have a very high battery drain, even when it is connected to the charger an the screen is on (lowest brightness) the battery is draining very slowly and not charging.
4. maybe more to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1- no
2- no, no option.
4: is there a way, to disable the "sync-contacts-from-sim-card" after every reboot?
5: the app ergebnisselive.com is always crashing, thought it is caused by xposed but I disabled all plugins and it still crashes. How can I find the reason why the app is crashing?