Hi all, I still don't understand why Spica's and Carburano's threads are closed.
Can anyone explain me what happened, please?
Also, is there anyway or something I can do to help Carburano or Spica, so they can have their threads back? I don't think I'm the only one who wants that, so if anyone that have used their Roms could answer me, it would be great. Thanks in adavance.
This post sums it all up:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=26785899&postcount=2948
Where that post does indeed sum it up, Stefans reply is wrong and full of holes.
If he wants to start going on about 5 days to release source, because of the GPL - then he needs to actually READ the GPL instead of just reading something in a 10 line thread.
Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?
The GPL does not require you to release your modified version, or any part of it. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.
Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you.
Now this is the kicker. Releasing it to the public can mean beta sure, as everything is covered by the original, but if users are labelled by the developer as INTERNAL TESTERS - then publication of the source code IS NOT REQUIRED, and therefore, causes no harm to this forum.
If people actually fully understood the licenses they impose, the world would be an awfully better place
Yesterday was a harsh day in development for this platform.
The idea of the GPLv2 is absurd anyway. You MUST release your finished source - from which ANYBODY is perfectly covered to use it for commercial purposes.
Wow.
Nice.
Don't you think that is a bit crap?
And thats the underlying reason as to why none of my work is covered by the GPL. Created Commons none commercial is so much damn better.
mrotacon said:
Where that post does indeed sum it up, Stefans reply is wrong and full of holes.
If he wants to start going on about 5 days to release source, because of the GPL - then he needs to actually READ the GPL instead of just reading something in a 10 line thread.
Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?
The GPL does not require you to release your modified version, or any part of it. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.
Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you.
Now this is the kicker. Releasing it to the public can mean beta sure, as everything is covered by the original, but if users are labelled by the developer as INTERNAL TESTERS - then publication of the source code IS NOT REQUIRED, and therefore, causes no harm to this forum.
If people actually fully understood the licenses they impose, the world would be an awfully better place
Yesterday was a harsh day in development for this platform.
The idea of the GPLv2 is absurd anyway. You MUST release your finished source - from which ANYBODY is perfectly covered to use it for commercial purposes.
Wow.
Nice.
Don't you think that is a bit crap?
And thats the underlying reason as to why none of my work is covered by the GPL. Created Commons none commercial is so much damn better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops, my bad. I gave the link to the wrong post, link corrected now. Check it now please.
I agree with what you have written, and i fully support Carburano with his effort, against the one who keeps saying "Goodbye", but just refuses to leave
It's sad to see that this forum is just dying.
GPL
mrotacon said:
The idea of the GPLv2 is absurd anyway. You MUST release your finished source - from which ANYBODY is perfectly covered to use it for commercial purposes.
Wow.
Nice.
Don't you think that is a bit crap?
And thats the underlying reason as to why none of my work is covered by the GPL. Created Commons none commercial is so much damn better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, like it or not, but this is the license of the Linux kernel, not just a forum rule. This license may not be appropriate for your work (and hence be qualified as "a bit crap"), but with a different license, the Linux kernel would probably be very different now, probably not in a state that I would want to use it to run on my laptop and my phone.
PS: This is just a comment on the license, not on the DjangoManouche/Spica/Gueste issue
Tom
Ohhhh no...... i just read the closed threads
The best way to reopen the treads I think will be no comments
I asked moderator to close my thread... Btw i won't leave and i don't want to defend spica or blame stefan...
I just want a thing: equal treatment until war is over...
Sent from DjangoManouche!
carburano said:
I asked moderator to close my thread... Btw i won't leave and i don't want to defend spica or blame stefan...
I just want a thing: equal treatment until war is over...
Sent from DjangoManouche!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's no solution.
Spica and Stefan should stop the "war", all threads can be opened again and everything is good.
Thanks a lot to everyone who has answered me, now I quite understand what's happened.
I believe is bs (sorry for the expression) that they closed Spica's thread because of some missing links, I mean, he does what he likes and he is sharing it with us, isn't it freedom? Isn't Android supposed to be a FREE OS? Isn't like Xda is paying Spica for what he does, so I don't understand why they were so harsh.
What Spica does help us all, and keep us happy with our O2X. I'm mad at Xda and specially to the one who dared disable Spica
carburano said:
I asked moderator to close my thread... Btw i won't leave and i don't want to defend spica or blame stefan...
I just want a thing: equal treatment until war is over...
Sent from DjangoManouche!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there Carburano it's nice and quite a relieve to read that you are not leaving us. Even if I don't like that your post is closed, I gotta admit that I like what you're doing, it's really unfair what happened and clearly something had to be done. I just hope this problem ends up soon so we can have Spica and you back. Hope you're doing great, see you soon.
I believe you should seek Paul's aid on Modaco... and resurrect their O2X section. Most of us are already members also there from old good Gr/Fr days.
I've had many devices in past years and such quarrels were always present here on XDA. It annoys me much... Moderators cannot do anything about it. It just a matter of working style of each dev, which are all of course specific artist like personalities, not some kind of slave labor unit under certain company to whom you can poke GPL in the eye... (like HP for example).
XDA forgets all the time, one cannot ask from other responsibility, if everything this is a pure charity work.
If you wish my opinion... Spicas SR4 are so very raw betas and suffer from so many problems and ask the dev to continuously update the code, when it evolves even in hours, to decide witch part of the code causes bsod etc it is kind of lame to ask a broken code.
Bouba123 said:
Well, like it or not, but this is the license of the Linux kernel, not just a forum rule. This license may not be appropriate for your work (and hence be qualified as "a bit crap"), but with a different license, the Linux kernel would probably be very different now, probably not in a state that I would want to use it to run on my laptop and my phone.
PS: This is just a comment on the license, not on the DjangoManouche/Spica/Gueste issue
Tom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right man, you are correct.
That is why I stated that if he classed everyone as internal testers who acquired it here, in an open community (granted) - but one you have to register to become a part of (closed) then he doesn't actually need to release the source at this time.
Once he actually labels his project as a release, and drops the work test from his posts, the He has to comply fully with the GPL.
I'm not finding excuses for the guy - as it doesn't excuse him from the previous releases with only having one complete source, but he can't do that for the previous kernels. He suffered data loss, and where he should have had it all backed up, even stored in the cloud (hindsight is a *****) its impossible for him to do that.
He has one source publicized and available for the project which is his only Full release now.
It depends how he - himself, classes his project, and interprets the GPL.
Its obvious from my previous post that I dislike the GPL (to put it mildly). Where I agree with Stallman's ideas on how a system should be internally managed, I find his ideas for how to achieve this somewhat distasteful (at least in V2 and V3).
That's just my personal opinion from a little incident in my past, which saw my work used for something I did not see fit, nor agree with or support in anyway. Everyone has opinions, and mine make me slightly biased with my comments (loopholes aren't always for exploitation), and for that I ask forgiveness.
But he does fall into that category.
mrotacon said:
That's right man, you are correct.
That is why I stated that if he classed everyone as internal testers who acquired it here, in an open community (granted) - but one you have to register to become a part of (closed) then he doesn't actually need to release the source at this time.
Once he actually labels his project as a release, and drops the work test from his posts, the He has to comply fully with the GPL.
I'm not finding excuses for the guy - as it doesn't excuse him from the previous releases with only having one complete source, but he can't do that for the previous kernels. He suffered data loss, and where he should have had it all backed up, even stored in the cloud (hindsight is a *****) its impossible for him to do that.
He has one source publicized and available for the project which is his only Full release now.
It depends how he - himself, classes his project, and interprets the GPL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the problem here is that the almost all mods doesn't understand what GPL really is
and just think "GPL = you must upload all your sources"
carburano said:
I asked moderator to close my thread... Btw i won't leave and i don't want to defend spica or blame stefan...
I just want a thing: equal treatment until war is over...
Sent from DjangoManouche!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
currently deciding what i should do
move to RootzWiki until XDA realize they should care more about their devs and not about the users or stay here
they always say dev's are important on XDA they keep the community running
but in the mean while when a dev can't defend himself against a user or another dev without even swearing
you can expect a huge flame war from users because they praise the ROM dev (or copy cat in some cases)
a mod steps in you get a warning and the flamers their post get deleted
i always thougt this community wanted to defend their devs and help them because this community would not exist without them
but it seems like they just want more and more users
this is just how i think about XDA
RootzWiki atleast protect their devs
their mods ask you about your part of the story and after that they decide that to do
here on xda you can expect a instant ban or warning
i am not saying every mod here is like that but the most are...
RootzWiki > xda
Where it seems that is true, Its up to us to give them that knowledge (educate is too harsh - its boring to read through Lol)
Spica will no doubt continue work on his kernel. Not for everyone but for himself. The sensation you get when you finish a project is pretty cool (orgasmic?? ^^) indeed.
I hope he tries to rectify this, and also the issues he and Stefan have with each other. With the development of two kernels simultaneously (which, to be fair - both offer advantages in different categories over one another) coupled with the production of an astoundingly good Rom, meant the community [pre-ICS (stable!)] were motivated, and moving with good pace, in a positive gradient.
He-man is not real. No one can have that much power.
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If those guys can enjoy dinner together, so can you two!
mrotacon said:
Where it seems that is true, Its up to us to give them that knowledge (educate is too harsh - its boring to read through Lol)
Spica will no doubt continue work on his kernel. Not for everyone but for himself. The sensation you get when you finish a project is pretty cool (orgasmic?? ^^) indeed.
I hope he tries to rectify this, and also the issues he and Stefan have with each other. With the development of two kernels simultaneously (which, to be fair - both offer advantages in different categories over one another) coupled with the production of an astoundingly good Rom, meant the community [pre-ICS (stable!)] were motivated, and moving with good pace, in a positive gradient.
He-man is not real. No one can have that much power.
If those guys can enjoy dinner together, so can you two!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good posting indeed
Though I think everything isn't as bad as it might seem. Spica's threads could already be open again, they could have been reopened 10 minutes after close.
He just needs to execute
git push origin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in his local kernel git repository and everything is fine. Upload will take about 5 minutes or sth. and all his threads are open again.
His account on the other hand is disabled for multiple personal insults like this.
So @owain protecting developers is good and right for sure, but it doesn't include giving the DEV the freedom to post whatever he wants ;-)
Netiquette still has to be followed. (Fortunately)
I hadn't seen the post.
He was wrong to publicly make it personal to someone other than yourself.
Slander is never friendly
mrotacon said:
I hadn't seen the post.
He was wrong to publicly make it personal to someone other than yourself.
Slander is never friendly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been 4 or 5 such postings containing direct personal insults against my person (in 1 day). This is why his account is disabled, not related to the sources-problematic.
Too bad these postings still haven't been deleted.
Stefan Gündhör said:
So @owain protecting developers is good and right for sure, but it doesn't include giving the DEV the freedom to post whatever he wants ;-)
Netiquette still has to be followed. (Fortunately)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't protecting Spica nor blaming you nor talking about this situation
I was just giving my opinion about how XDA is
Not in this situation but more in general
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium
I did not want to talk about this one more time...but this is surely becoming a public debate where each one of us are trying to put our thought and what we know better. I am giving mine.
I am not saying that the greats like OWAIN STEFAN TEMASEK CARBURANO or anyone else who are legends and have contributed as much as the number of users, are wrong or right or siding someone or unbiased....
but, everyone will agree that this is not just one incident or two...this is a big continuation of posts from almost five to six months where the war of words and sometimes abuses or personal digs were constantly made...sometimes in the opening posts where description about the ROM or Kernel were generally expected. People who have followed this forum from those days of Topo,Navlem,Amnon (those gentlemen)will agree that, now the posts have become very personal and trying to show that mine is good and others are not."I am working hard and you are not".BREAKTHROUGH REVOLUTION AMAZING and words which one uses are countered by the other.This is the main root cause of the issue.
I am not good at interpreting rules but I surely dont like someone who is trying to tell me rules in front of public....I surely think that this could have been more amicable had it been a bit more accommodative, mutually respected....this is something a bit lacking.
I respect Stefan for the new tool,the amount of hardwork he has put to give us an excellent ROM, kernel and so many other things.
I also have great respect for Spica, for the things he has done for us users.
But, I dont agree to the fact that it is just a personal insult of one side...I have been spending close to 5hrs everyday and can remember things of such bitter taste which went for a period of time until there was a warning by the MOD.
I request everyone to understand this situation and not take sides to prove someone is right and someone else was insulted....
but I sincerely will request STEFAN and SPICA to join hands and bring a SMILE on everyone's faces in this forum.No one is perfect but we can always bring smiles and happiness AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO THE WORLD AROUND US.
Please dont take this as an insult or offence...I SINCERELY HOPE AND PRAY PEACE PREVAILS AND SUN SHINES BIRDS CHIRP LOVE SPREADS
thanks everyone...I am just a noob and forgive me if I am wrong
Related
All this superhero DONATEWARE OH MY GOD NO bull**** needs to stop. It is not, and never was, the intent of nathan or pulser to charge money for a rom. Superhero 1.0.0 was clearly marked a beta test, and under normal circumstances would have only been tested by the villain team. However, being nice dudes, they decided to let people who paid for their website and hosting try it out as well as an added bonus for their donation.
Let me remind you again that this entire time, superhero was clearly marked beta test and every indication was made that a less buggy and feature complete version would be released to the public on xda.
Of course, all you entitled sons of *****es cried that it was UNFAIR and that you wanted to be a part of the cool kids club, simply because your internet ego was so goddamn big that you thought you could get whatever you wanted from crying hard enough. Well, when you didn't get your way of course you just started crying more about how unfair it was, how terrible the villain team was, how they ate babies to fuel their rom-o-tron 9000, and how they lied publicly about superhero to get the dollars.
Well, things certainly look different now, dont they? Superhero 1.1.0 is public and free, just like you wanted, and you dont care because feeyo is your newest internet qq target. Shut the **** up, let our devs work, and take your bull**** crying out of the DEVELOPMENT forum so the devs can work without you filling their threads with nonsense.
Mods: please let this stay in development for a while so everyone can read it.
I just lol'd
I too lol'd. I lol'd in agreement.
lol you got some serious frustrations. And yes Feeyo has dropped here with the best rom out at the moment.
Go cry man. And please remove this thread or drop it in general or put it in the cry baby thread.
Wanker
I love you.
And this free publishing, why ?????
Is this not a forum ???
Can I say EVERYTHING that I want, with respect????
Stop teaching me how good and ONG is the villainteam, please, I have my own opinion, and don't need to hear your apocaliptic sermon.
Regards
PS. Please, delete this thread, noting important apporting to the forum
against gpl
its against gpl to take money for it ;p
Moving this thread to off-topic since it is not directly related to Android development. There is an expiring redirect in place so that people viewing the forum can find the thread in its new home.
Going forward, please keep language in check, or the thread will have to be closed and removed from public view. Remember, XDA is a family-friendly forum.
Thanks,
NATF
trasig said:
its against gpl to take money for it ;p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think OP's point was more, they're not taking money for it. They're doing a closed beta with their donators. If other people want to help out by donating and testing, there's no problem, surely.
I just can't grasp how incredibly tight you'd have to be to begrudge a guy a few quid when he dedicates that much time to development, "against the GPL" or otherwise
developing said:
All this superhero DONATEWARE OH MY GOD NO b****t needs to stop. It is not, and never was, the intent of nathan or pulser to charge money for a rom. Superhero 1.0.0 was clearly marked a beta test, and under normal circumstances would have only been tested by the villain team. However, being nice dudes, they decided to let people who paid for their website and hosting try it out as well as an added bonus for their donation.
Mods: please let this stay in development for a while so everyone can read it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please watch you lenguage. Everybody is entitled to his or her opinion but with rescpect for this forum and its users
shenshang said:
I just lol'd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rayjt9 said:
I too lol'd. I lol'd in agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^
What they said
Seriously... No comment.
i'm ashamed to say i got it off usenet without donating, but i don't believe that's legally theft.
we should have a forum for inter-ROM team toe2toes.
I don't care about donateware, as long as I don't see it on the forum.
apesgrapes said:
i'm ashamed to say i got it off usenet without donating, but i don't believe that's legally theft.
we should have a forum for inter-ROM team toe2toes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's not theft at all because Android (and derivatives) are licenced under the GNU GPL.
Doing a 'little bonus' for people that donated is nothing wrong IMHO, but apparently it can quickly look like something else.
so on that subject, I completely agree with the OP.
I don't agree with his tone and language, but I do agree on his statement .
What this has to do with Freeyo and his ROM is a mystery to me though. More and more I see why dev's go away from XDA... the most vocal people on the fourm are the users of the ROMs and the devs don't have a normal place to talk amongst each other besides moving to different forums or use something else... a shame.
the mentality of the Android (and (gsm) Hero specially) section is sooo much different from the WinMo section I for example don't want to try cooking for Android... there is little to no community feel on XDA on the Android sections.
Anyone that decide to post their works on xda have to know what is the purposing of the forum...
If anyone don't agree with this way of work, then can choose any of the million of forums in the web.....
I think is very simply...
Regards....
EDIT: And don't forget that a lot of dev's that today have their own forum, had started their job here, and used the forum for their purposing.....
trasig said:
its against gpl to take money for it ;p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, that is a common misconception that a lot of people have about the gpl. as a matter of fact there is nothing in the gpl that restricts people from selling it, the only requirement of the gpl is that the source code has to be released and thats it. there are tons of commercial software out there that contains gpl code.
and for those of you who wants proof here is a link to the official gpl faq:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
lol... so ppl who actually pay money are the ones to get the buggiest version of your software? Nice policy I'm sure you'd have tons of happy customers I wouldn't have cared the tiniest bit about superhero being donate rom (since there are plenty of fast vanilla roms out there), had it not been a thread in the development section for more than a week?! I mean... I'm ok with ppl selling stuff, I'm not okay with selling it on xda...
You know what, honestly, I'm a huge fan of DINIKs work, it's beautiful. Hate me if you want, but he doesn't deserve the **** some people have put him through. If you don't like his work, simply shut the F*CK up and don't download it OR use a ROM that has it included...
Is it that hard to follow rules? Honestly... He asked people not to distribute his work without permission, yet I see it happening daily...
Yeah, I have "manipulated" his work, but only to fulfill requests IN HIS OFFICIAL HD2 ICON THREAD, saving him time.
Am I re-distributing his work without his permission? No, I assisted someone in need.
Some people became belligerent, harassing his work because it came with a ROM.... my answer to their stupidity, FLASH A NEW ROM FFS.... If you don't want DINIKs work on your Device, don't flash a ROM with it included. You're only making yourself look dumber.
Remember, most Chefs make ROMs to THEIR personal liking for their own devices, not just to please you. If I Cooked up a ROM and it had DINIKs work {with permission} in it, and someone asked me to get rid of it, I'd immediately direct that user back to the Device ROM fora, and tell them to choose another ROM. Simple as that.
Does DINIK support my creating of this thread? Honestly, probably not... but thanks to these people who consistently blab on about how bad his work is, and how "they can make it too", he has announced that his work will now be for his ROM only... which means HD2 only.
I have no plans to update my Device to a non-hardware keyboard device, so thanks a*sholes... now I, and MANY MANY others, no-longer get to enjoy the work of DINIK.
Do I care if you can make the Anastasia Icons as good as DINIK can? No, I don't. The IDEA behind the set is what makes it beautiful and worthwhile, and DINIK took the time out of HIS day to make ALL of the icons... I don't see you doing this.. I just see you wasting my precious bandwidth and oxygen.
Feel free to comment, BUT if you're going to RANT against me this thread, why don't you just PM an Admin and request for your account to be banned and deleted... it'll save us all a bunch of eye-sores and the chance of our IQs being lowered...
[I felt this thread was necessary to bring people back to reality. Some people are too asinine to simply respect someones work, and time put into the work. I feel the day is coming where Chefs no longer get thanked, nor receive donations... and the day that happens my friends is the day that we all become part of Apples Auschwitz Posse of Fanbois.]
With you on this one mate, too many people are disprespectful to people who spend their own time making other peoples lives/devices better.
we all suffer because of their stupidity, the worst bit is, folk who take what is not theirs and use as they wish without permission will likely not give a damn about it and they will simply move on to copy someone elses work
I 2nd and 3rd that one mate.....
The guys/girls on here that devote their time to making some amazing programs to make our devices a whole lot better than we could possibly imagine, and you get arseholes gobbing off...
I truely respect everyone of the developers and can only say...
IF SOMEONE DOESNT LIKE A CERTAIN PROGRAM/SOFTWARE.......DONT BLOODY DOWNLOAD IT....SIMPLE....
Respect to DINIK and ALL the developers on this site...!!!!
Viva la XDA.....
i cosign this post
Thx Agent Zach and others...i know 90% users here are happy with me and what im doing...its just that this 5-10 people...became so loud and so annoying...that its no more fun to be here and post...it all began with one user who disliked me...and now it started to grow...i dont know what they thinking...they all using my work...and attack me...that one who doing it for them? maybe they should think again about it...to attack an author is not a good idea itself...but to attack an author that you like (use his works) is def an idea of an idiot.
they attacked me and my works...and suffered now...cause i not doing anymore cabs and do only rom exclusive updates...now they started attacking my rom and to rip files out of it (because after the first attack they get no more cabs)...the stupidity have no end...with all that they gonna loose all...i just quit posting here.
I understand your choice 100%.
This thread was intended to show support to your work, as you can already see by the responses. But it was also intended to bring these ignorant folks out of their shell. Maybe they'll learn that people won't kneel at their feet and fulfill their demands.
All it takes is one person to screw something up, and it all rolls downhill from there... it's the vicious circle of idiocracy.
I just hope that one day, something or someone can help change your mind. I understand your thoughts on the Exclusivity of the new Anastasia for your ROM, but it does, in-fact, suck for the rest of us.
I love your work, simple & through. Whatever decisions you make, my friend, I support.
UPDATE::
One of the rules these people should take notice of:
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the rules HERE!
Mod Input
Just a gentle reminder that this thread is on watch to ensure that all members post within the forum rules...http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=534
If you see a post that is a problem please use the Report Button function to flag it up so we can take the appropriate action.
Many thanks
WB
Thus I linked to the Rules.
Trust me, I won't hesitate to Report.
Some people may even Report my first post in this thread, as the people it's directed towards may become upset with themselves, and then ME for pointing out their mistakes.
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
Totally agreed with this thread! I don't know way, almost everyone have some of Dinnik's work; and the only thing some people do is dispute! He have changed for us the hole layout from our device, what I'm thankful fore and for some reason or a other there are always people's who don't respect him!!
Ok I must be honest, in the beginning I missed something ore like to see more of his stuff on my device!! So I have simply contact him to asked his authorization to used his basic work to create my'n, and I'm not he only one who have did that!! From the first time I have contact him, till know I have a new friend!! I don't know if it is me ore what!! But in each case my parents have learn me to asked and not to steal!!
It is a golden rules in life in brings you a great part father!
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
kurt-willems said:
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
But I admit, being a Photoshop Artist myself, the smallest bit of criticism to my work does lower my self esteem and respect toward "the receivers" of my work, no matter how many positive comments I get.
Maybe it's just a conflict within ones' self, and not necessarily a hatred for the critics...
Maybe my metaphoric "Ego" is much more vulnerable than I thought... maybe every artists Ego is..
nebenezer said:
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
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Nice Thread!!!
Am a big fan of your work dinik..
A big thumbs up mate Keep up the good work
Welcome to the world dinik..It is something that you have got to get used to it. I know this from my experience..
DINIK......
Pse do not stop posting because of a few narrow minded idiots..!!! Your stuff if loved by thousands of people on this amazing site.. Keep up the good work fella...
Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!
Wow, didn't realise how long it was...out of interest has anyone actually read the whole thing !?
Yeah, I read it and agree to some extent.
While what he did was wrong, he shouldn't be banned for it. I do not know all the circumstances around it but from what I read it appears he made sense UI for the Nexus one?
I believe that cyanogen is becoming more and more powerful as a body and it is starting to strong arm others when they believe they are in the wrong. I don't understand why people should shunned as he was simply because he didn't give due credit. From seeing all these devs get the boot from websites because they didn't give all the sources for their work. This is a major hinderance from some people wanting to develop new ROMs. I mean it seems that some people want to get credit for what they did and want to have the fame of what they developed, and not just because they wanted to further the development of phones and custom ROMS.
Some people may not agree with my stance, but I just think you give people another chance for slip ups like that one and not just a boot with no questions asked.
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
wow lets have some proof of this please and i quote "Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick" we know cyan does but prove king does if not take the statement out
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
See guys no one from cm contributors told anyone bout banning kk but yes every one was angry that he never gave credit to anyone. We told him a hundred time already to give credit. I don't know if bbannin does justice here but still he violated a lot of rules. He never released his kernel source. Never gave credits for others hard work. Bout drizzy he got banned for scamming a user. It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right. We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid. I would recommend u all try contributing before writing such justifications n flames n more. So kingklick was wrong n given many warnings before being banned. He was not a bad dev or something but as I told u reward for a contributor is credits. Bout donating I guess from tomorrow I'll start packaging cm froyo nightlys change the name of the Rom post it n start asking for donations. I'll even put some unicorns n ponies in it for u guys so it ismagical. N if u thing stuff can be fixed without the source u r wrong. For fixing 99% percent of stuff u need to know how to work with source n compile. Rest 1% are silver by pushing files. And again no one from cm asked any mod to ban him. It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
And one more thing. U all remember Eugene whom u all made run away from magic n dream. He even caught kingklick using his work by adding a coded name oc the Rom that clearly said Eugene n this made king cry. He started accepting he used Eugene work then more proofs came in of he just changing build.prop n posting as his
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
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I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
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Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
AnderWeb said:
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
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Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence) and hey I put a paper out last term without my complete bibliography done because I was so excited to get it out and I was going away for a week...I finished it off over the break and put it out when I was back, funny that didn't start a war on the internet.
enatefox said:
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
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I like how you're not using any form of personal attack in discussing this issue...give me an example of when kingklick asked asked for donations...theyre just appreciated. And hell did Jubreh give credit to ALL the people who helped him...Linus Torvalds etc? No, so we are all in part imperfect for not giving 'full credit'...call me anal or not.
Daneshm90 said:
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
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None of them were philosophical...Ive just finished my second year on joint honours in Philosophy so I find it interesting...and it's not exactly an effort to pile out this when I did it all through term time anyway.
charnsingh_online said:
It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right.
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LOL I guess that makes me an invalid...nice
charnsingh_online said:
We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid.
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well uhhhh no its not because you expect to be paid for your job, and in fact you have legal rights ...open source developing is COMPLETELY different
charnsingh_online said:
I would recommend u all try contributing
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True yeah we should all try it...I'm hoping to do computer science post-grad if I get a first...but we dont all have the time or the expertise. I do some file pushing for myself, but I dont release it because if I did (despite getting my roms running fast and to my liking) I'd get slated by some snooty coders and fanboys.
charnsingh_online said:
before writing such justifications n flames n more.
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nb. see lack of flaming...
charnsingh_online said:
It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
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Try twitter.com and look at a lot of members of Cyanogenmob's (still sticking by that, will use that in non-derogatory circumstances, still revelling in the typo!) tweets.
And hey if kingklick can deliver to the end users then there's no use slagging him off...youre equally insulting anyone that thought his roms were good. His slide rom has so much positive feedback for instance.
JAguirre1231 said:
I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
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Daneshm90 said:
Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
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Yay mock donators now too.
HazzBazz, since you're gonna be like this here goes:
We all know the kangers. They're everywhere from your local grocer to the bus driver. Yes, kangers live peacefully among us. What you didn't know is that the real issue, for me at least, is that when I had my old Windows phone w/Android ported on it, we would bust our asses off (look at the Vogue thread) and people would micro-manage or "release" our work as theirs. Basically we would bust our asses off for free (never have I ever asked for a donation nor have I received a single penny for my time) and these people would zip it up and host it on their own site and build a fan base.
Ok so what right? well the people that post in those threads then have bugs to report. who do they report them too? the guy that said he made the ROM-- not us. he says "lolz i don't know guys" then we fix it then he gets thanked. then, he gets the donation. it pisses me off and I never got paid. imagine the unemployed devs out there.
You can at least see my point, right?
F'sure. Hence why I dont release anything. But to you guys kangers are pests. I do not doubt that kangers should be policed. However the credit issue is something which is neglected at a small level by everyone, so no one is perfect...and the great thing about a big site like xda is that most kangers on other websites have tiny fanbases.
I respect your work because of its own credence, and plagiarism will sure as hell piss anyone off who puts time into things, but we must remember that these are donations, given freely. I think we should do more to inform the 'end users' than ban and drive away devs who deliver what some users want...albeit with some undue credit (inform..allow the end users to make informed decisions).
HazzBazz said:
Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence)
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I will stop you there as the rest of what you say is boring.
Oh and use the search button or cache on google to find(as you call it) evidence
Have a Nice Day
If you like my work, buy bill gates a stuffed penguin.
Love it yeah. Your logical, fair and anticipatory argument leaves me speechless.
'Rest of what you say is boring'...darn I'm upset and speechless...that hurts. It's like Primary school bullies here, only fails.
With regard to 'haven't seen evidence'...I wasn't saying kingklick did or did not do that or this...Im simply saying I (personally) havent seen the evidence (not because it doesn't exist or does exist), but ultimately Kingklick was found guilty of using someone else's work without saying please and thankyou, and was hence driven away from us.
I will be hated on, but I don't care. Bring the King back. I love his Desire Sense UI ROM's.
First off let me say this isnt my style, I am not one for airing anyones business. I wanted to keep the matter private and handle it behind the scenes so that this small issue didnt turn in to an all out war. As you can see this is exactly what happened.
I am only doing this because i want to clear the air for everyone involved, you all got worked up over nothing really. I will give you a very brief explanation of what happened, and i will not name any names.
With that being said, i first want to make an apology to the 2 devs involved:
Bananacakes, i think that i might not have stated my case very well with you, and based on your posts i feel that there might have been a language barrier and you may have taken what i said out of context. All i ever wanted was for you to talk to me about the issue so i could get your side of the story and make a determination.
WildChild, im sorry that i did not delete BC's rant with everyone elses. I didnt mean to make you look like an a$$. I wanted to give BC a voice on the matter but i didnt want to censor him completely. And in hindsight i may have damaged your name. Was not my intention, and i feel bad that it happened.
In this open community it is acceptable to share and borrow from others but its common courtesy to give the other dev credit for their work.
***********
A brief summary of what happened:
A MEMBER of the community (not one of the devs involved) brought to me an issue of similarities between 2 dev's. provided some screen shots and asked me to investigate the matter, as it APPEARED to be a Kanging issue (to get the story straight, it was MORE than just a so called script). So i contacted both devs involved, one was very cooperative and the other never contacted me. I waited 5 days before i took the next step at contacting the dev and this is where it all turned really ugly and public.
***********
Now, in this issue there has been numerous attacks on each others and some very ugly things said. Im willing to overlook all of those at this moment as i know a lot of you were upset. Loosing 2 dev's is a serious matter when we dont have that many to begin with. If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Now quick, everyone, group hug!
I am going to leave it open for in case anyone wants to comment or beg either dev to come back. But the instant that someone gets negative toward either dev (i dont care if you talk bad about me, lol) i will lock this from comments.
I had this as a sticky, but in reality there isnt much going on in here right now, so really there is no need. I will only sticky if it starts to fall towards the bottom.
Please come back WC , WE MISS YOU
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
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Nothing has been proved at this point. And the HoliRaider thread is being looked at by pstevep.
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
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I am waiting to talk to bananacakes before any decisions are made. I'm hoping we can work all of this out in a friendly non confrontational way.
I will post here any updates.
Thanks everyone for cooperating.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
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+ 1
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Crimson Ghoul said:
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
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I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
haggardh said:
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
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yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
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Only Bananacakes and Wild Child were constantly updating their roms though... that's what I meant
I have been edited because i cant follow directions.
shogunmark said:
If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
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So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
come at me bro said:
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
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I am the only mod involved with this. But to answer your question, no i am not currently a dev.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
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For real... finally, a voice of reason. I mean, common sense. Okay so everyone has something to be bitter about. But how will that get anyone anywhere?
Walking away from a problem is NEVER the solution. At least Pirate and vhjc are still here, or so it seems.
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have never noticed that. Now that I think about it Some things do stick out. Well Thank you. I just saw where hes from. That being said its a different culture between the two. So in each others eyes they were right, and the other wrong.
So I hope neither of them are the stubborn type and decide to work things out.
GSLEON3 nailed it!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes and yes.
GSLEON3 said:
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have decided to teach myself the trades of development on the android system. Need to put my AAS degree to the test
Sent from my HTC Vivid
How is it that we are all just consumers who have the same device and enjoy building and hacking our said devices. We all try and work together and help others and when one of us is cast out for there misgression and forced to join a new community to continue being a consumer who wants to share and enjoy his works and accomplishments. That we cant even help our own community who might have enjoyed his work or his banter and befriended him. To find and give an easy way to get to where he is now. All because he was deemed a problem to our community. Since when did the police run the world? Just because there are laws does not give the police the right to just shoot dead a murder unless forced to. And then he is then looked into for possible crimes. When a murder is found he is put to justice from a group of his peers. Well I don't remember anyone deciding that anyone was deemed guilty and should forced to be banned to another community. Regardless of the "rules". Anyways this was my rant. I dont even care truthfully about who was banned. I just can't stand when authority chooses to abuse there power or at least throw it around Willy nilly. This Is a free community and to be told we can not choose to give out information even if the information is so that others can find banned members is not considered fair. And I infect just might have to find a higher up mod or even a possible site creater. If this nonsense is forced to continue. Yes I could choose to leave like many others. But why should I? This is just as good a place as any. The people in power and as well the idiots who make trouble are what is making this place unusable. And is why many people ate choosing to leave and join many other places. Alright I'm done. Ban me, delete this, lock it so no one can agree with me. Take away my right to speech. Do as u so obviously will. I can create accounts to my life's content. Good day.
Sent from my HTC VIVID using XDA
Sir I agree with you completely! The mods just go willy nilly banning and deleting/locking posts left and right when it was some of the mods that was giving out IP addresses. What's dumb is that anyone can easily change their IP and just make a new account. I do it every 30 minutes so my desktop can't be traced. The mods need to come together as a group and then decide if said person is guilty not just have any of them banning anyone they don't like. C'mon guys this is a community not a dictatorship. Were here to develop and help others make their devices better then what was originally handed to them. Mods just be fair that's all we ask. Delete me or block me or ban me if u want I'll just change my IP and Make a new account.
Can you imagine running a site of 4+ mn users? And then without knowing any fact - out comes the accusations.
A ban is only warranted as a last resort and not something we do because we "abuse" powers.
The op mentions that he doesnt even know who was banned and for what reasons, so i guess the complete thread becomes redundant.
We are not here to police anyone and the least to ban anyone.. we love our community to grow, just like you do..
Lets keep up the spirit of XDA alive
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You dont say?
More out of curiosity but what was the action that was deemed ban able ? Since the posts it selves were removed and censored the members of this board are only seeing the hammer being thrown at the members.
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda app-developers app
theshamrockking said:
...This is just as goof a place as any...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No truer words have ever been spoken. This place is right up there with the goofiest.
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
MondoMor said:
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction: Pretty much ever since its inception.
Sent from my HTC Holiday using XDA Premium App
PG101 said:
Can you imagine running a site of 4+ mn users? And then without knowing any fact - out comes the accusations.
A ban is only warranted as a last resort and not something we do because we "abuse" powers.
The op mentions that he doesnt even know who was banned and for what reasons, so i guess the complete thread becomes redundant.
We are not here to police anyone and the least to ban anyone.. we love our community to grow, just like you do..
Lets keep up the spirit of XDA alive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My main point behind my post was that I thought it was unfair and complete nonsense to delete and edit/censor a topic made for our community by someone who was not a banned member and didn't tech.fiscally do anything other than try and help "us" the community find the work of someone they might enjoy the work of. New community where he now resides. And the mods response for why was u were linking to a banned member. Well who gives a **** he isint here on "your" forum. So why try and bully the rest of u's because the mod or mods had a person opinion on the person. Now that the member has been banned its none of your business if any of us want to still be in contact with him. And to try and control who we choose to stay in contact with is just blatantly an abuse of power.
I'm sorry if my original post didn't make as much sense as it should have. I went on a complete rant.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
kevsthabest said:
More out of curiosity but what was the action that was deemed ban able ? Since the posts it selves were removed and censored the members of this board are only seeing the hammer being thrown at the members.
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you have a huge point. No one ever knows anything. And the rest of u's are left Pissed or feeling betrayed by the mods. For banning someone that we might have liked.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
MondoMor said:
No truer words have ever been spoken. This place is right up there with the goofiest.
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha thx lol I didn't choose to proof read it. I was on a rant. Just didn't pay any attention. I even rambled a lil. Lol
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Aus_Azn said:
Correction: Pretty much ever since its inception.
Sent from my HTC Holiday using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
theshamrockking said:
And you have a huge point. No one ever knows anything. And the rest of u's are left Pissed or feeling betrayed by the mods. For banning someone that we might have liked.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The links (meaning more than one) that were contained in the posts themselves were a violation of the rules. Second, the content at the location of one links was directed to a whole thread on a different site that was nothing but false accusations. I personally felt that this should have warranted a ban of this other person, but after discussing with the other mods, i was shot down, so he was just warned. You should be aware that the mods act as a team, we do discuss things like these and get second opinions to try to keep everything level and fair. I am not saying we are perfect, but everything does generally end up in a discussion.
As stated above, the Vivid board has been a huge problem and pain in the a$$ since the beginning. People can blame the poor marketing strategy of device which resulted in slow development. But ultimately it boiled down to a lot of disrespect among members and dev's who failed to get along. This board is the furthest thing i have ever seen from a community effort, it's quite sad how the people on here have acted. I can honestly say that i have never experienced anything like it since i joined XDA back in 2006.
shogunmark said:
The links (meaning more than one) that were contained in the posts themselves were a violation of the rules. Second, the content at the location of one links was directed to a whole thread on a different site that was nothing but false accusations. I personally felt that this should have warranted a ban of this other person, but after discussing with the other mods, i was shot down, so he was just warned. You should be aware that the mods act as a team, we do discuss things like these and get second opinions to try to keep everything level and fair. I am not saying we are perfect, but everything does generally end up in a discussion.
As stated above, the Vivid board has been a huge problem and pain in the a$$ since the beginning. People can blame the poor marketing strategy of device which resulted in slow development. But ultimately it boiled down to a lot of disrespect among members and dev's who failed to get along. This board is the furthest thing i have ever seen from a community effort, it's quite sad how the people on here have acted. I can honestly say that i have never experienced anything like it since i joined XDA back in 2006.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the whole as the vivid forum has be complete nonsense. And.I understand that u do have a job. And that it is to "police" the rest of us. And that's fine. But I don't believe that u should be able to stop us from being able to link to a dev who was banned. Stoping a link to a thread about hate mongering that's fine if u feel it's worthy. But to not allow us to make it easier for our own fellow members to find said dev. Is just childish. It seems like half of the devs have gone or have been banned. So a lot of us have to constantly check multiple places to get the fastest info and progress. And pretty soon there won't be any one left here. Is that really the best option? Why not work with the devs or the problematic individuals? I understand that can be a lot harder than it sounds. But be reasonable this phone already has enough issues with the fact that we have so few devs. Don't squash the last few we have. I think something should be worked out so every dev we know on this phone can try and work together. Or at least we try and find another great dev and buy him a vivid to help us out on.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Isn't it great when mods themselves don't even know the rules? In any case, I actually have a lot of great things to say about this dev community, since it's turned into "bash the vivid community."
A few things I'd like to address here (and hopefully SOMEONE reads it before this is deleted/account banned...only reason I created this account was for this one post). I even see a mod (shogunmark) bashing the community, when the devs inside it have very little issue working together:
This community is one of the best Android dev communities I've been a part of. You're more than likely shocked to hear that! The reason why is that I haven't encountered one dev here who has refused help, or not been kind to other devs. This excludes GSLeon3 who wanted to keep his work to himself and posted he would no longer release here, but linked to another site. I've worked with contactwajeeh (who will now be posting his work on rootz exclusively from what I understand due to moderation/having his IP leaked), rafyvitto (who left early on due to moderation), cruzin_cruzing, Leigh Kennedy, and KozmikKick (excluding the many devs on other devices of course).
I have always believed that android development should be about sharing info openly and helping one another since we do this as a hobby. There isn't fame in it. It's about wanting to make the device you own better, and then sharing it with others who have the same device. What you see here are mostly releases and support. To those of you who are on IRC actively, you see devs working together, asking each other for help when they need it, sharing logs, and letting each other know what they did to accomplish any given hurdle on this device. I left my previous main community due to major noncooperation between devs, and have been more than happy to find this incredible group that completely share my Android ideology. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD PROBLEMS WITH ONE DEV BEING UNKIND, OR UNHELPFUL. ONLY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION WAS A MODERATOR(applies to all of the devs on this device no doubt).
Moving on to my claims (which were promptly deleted before I was banned, so the users could not make up their own minds). I do security auditing/pen-testing for a living and enjoy practicing full discretion when possible. I felt it was my duty to make users aware of the potential security concern if it still was a problem. I made these posts after many various users found out their IP's had been leaked, and only posted in my own thread. I assumed moderation would be mature enough to let the users read what I had presented, and decide for themselves. Rather than act as if they're covering a whistle-blower!
Well, here's to hoping that moderation lets at the very least a few of the users who have come here for answers finish reading this before it's deleted and this account banned. I earnestly do not care about this account being banned. I would like this post to stay as-is since authority figures are slandering this device, and it's dev community with in-accurate information.
You stay classy XDA
BangBangKang said:
Isn't it great when mods themselves don't even know the rules? In any case, I actually have a lot of great things to say about this dev community, since it's turned into "bash the vivid community."
A few things I'd like to address here (and hopefully SOMEONE reads it before this is deleted/account banned...only reason I created this account was for this one post). I even see a mod (shogunmark) bashing the community, when the devs inside it have very little issue working together:
This community is one of the best Android dev communities I've been a part of. You're more than likely shocked to hear that! The reason why is that I haven't encountered one dev here who has refused help, or not been kind to other devs. This excludes GSLeon3 who wanted to keep his work to himself and posted he would no longer release here, but linked to another site. I've worked with contactwajeeh (who will now be posting his work on rootz exclusively from what I understand due to moderation/having his IP leaked), rafyvitto (who left early on due to moderation), cruzin_cruzing, Leigh Kennedy, and KozmikKick (excluding the many devs on other devices of course).
I have always believed that android development should be about sharing info openly and helping one another since we do this as a hobby. There isn't fame in it. It's about wanting to make the device you own better, and then sharing it with others who have the same device. What you see here are mostly releases and support. To those of you who are on IRC actively, you see devs working together, asking each other for help when they need it, sharing logs, and letting each other know what they did to accomplish any given hurdle on this device. I left my previous main community due to major noncooperation between devs, and have been more than happy to find this incredible group that completely share my Android ideology. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD PROBLEMS WITH ONE DEV BEING UNKIND, OR UNHELPFUL. ONLY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION WAS A MODERATOR(applies to all of the devs on this device no doubt).
Moving on to my claims (which were promptly deleted before I was banned, so the users could not make up their own minds). I do security auditing/pen-testing for a living and enjoy practicing full discretion when possible. I felt it was my duty to make users aware of the potential security concern if it still was a problem. I made these posts after many various users found out their IP's had been leaked, and only posted in my own thread. I assumed moderation would be mature enough to let the users read what I had presented, and decide for themselves. Rather than act as if they're covering a whistle-blower!
Well, here's to hoping that moderation lets at the very least a few of the users who have come here for answers finish reading this before it's deleted and this account banned. I earnestly do not care about this account being banned. I would like this post to stay as-is since authority figures are slandering this device, and it's dev community with in-accurate information.
You stay classy XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I'm glad more people are speaking up. And even more so that people who know more about all of what's going on are speaking up.
Sent from my HTC PH39100
*SIGH*...not another one of these threads? You all are causing a ruckus over a developer who couldn't and didn't want to follow the rules and better yet could care less about any one of you. Please stop wasting your time and move on.