How is it that we are all just consumers who have the same device and enjoy building and hacking our said devices. We all try and work together and help others and when one of us is cast out for there misgression and forced to join a new community to continue being a consumer who wants to share and enjoy his works and accomplishments. That we cant even help our own community who might have enjoyed his work or his banter and befriended him. To find and give an easy way to get to where he is now. All because he was deemed a problem to our community. Since when did the police run the world? Just because there are laws does not give the police the right to just shoot dead a murder unless forced to. And then he is then looked into for possible crimes. When a murder is found he is put to justice from a group of his peers. Well I don't remember anyone deciding that anyone was deemed guilty and should forced to be banned to another community. Regardless of the "rules". Anyways this was my rant. I dont even care truthfully about who was banned. I just can't stand when authority chooses to abuse there power or at least throw it around Willy nilly. This Is a free community and to be told we can not choose to give out information even if the information is so that others can find banned members is not considered fair. And I infect just might have to find a higher up mod or even a possible site creater. If this nonsense is forced to continue. Yes I could choose to leave like many others. But why should I? This is just as good a place as any. The people in power and as well the idiots who make trouble are what is making this place unusable. And is why many people ate choosing to leave and join many other places. Alright I'm done. Ban me, delete this, lock it so no one can agree with me. Take away my right to speech. Do as u so obviously will. I can create accounts to my life's content. Good day.
Sent from my HTC VIVID using XDA
Sir I agree with you completely! The mods just go willy nilly banning and deleting/locking posts left and right when it was some of the mods that was giving out IP addresses. What's dumb is that anyone can easily change their IP and just make a new account. I do it every 30 minutes so my desktop can't be traced. The mods need to come together as a group and then decide if said person is guilty not just have any of them banning anyone they don't like. C'mon guys this is a community not a dictatorship. Were here to develop and help others make their devices better then what was originally handed to them. Mods just be fair that's all we ask. Delete me or block me or ban me if u want I'll just change my IP and Make a new account.
Can you imagine running a site of 4+ mn users? And then without knowing any fact - out comes the accusations.
A ban is only warranted as a last resort and not something we do because we "abuse" powers.
The op mentions that he doesnt even know who was banned and for what reasons, so i guess the complete thread becomes redundant.
We are not here to police anyone and the least to ban anyone.. we love our community to grow, just like you do..
Lets keep up the spirit of XDA alive
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You dont say?
More out of curiosity but what was the action that was deemed ban able ? Since the posts it selves were removed and censored the members of this board are only seeing the hammer being thrown at the members.
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda app-developers app
theshamrockking said:
...This is just as goof a place as any...
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Click to collapse
No truer words have ever been spoken. This place is right up there with the goofiest.
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
MondoMor said:
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction: Pretty much ever since its inception.
Sent from my HTC Holiday using XDA Premium App
PG101 said:
Can you imagine running a site of 4+ mn users? And then without knowing any fact - out comes the accusations.
A ban is only warranted as a last resort and not something we do because we "abuse" powers.
The op mentions that he doesnt even know who was banned and for what reasons, so i guess the complete thread becomes redundant.
We are not here to police anyone and the least to ban anyone.. we love our community to grow, just like you do..
Lets keep up the spirit of XDA alive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My main point behind my post was that I thought it was unfair and complete nonsense to delete and edit/censor a topic made for our community by someone who was not a banned member and didn't tech.fiscally do anything other than try and help "us" the community find the work of someone they might enjoy the work of. New community where he now resides. And the mods response for why was u were linking to a banned member. Well who gives a **** he isint here on "your" forum. So why try and bully the rest of u's because the mod or mods had a person opinion on the person. Now that the member has been banned its none of your business if any of us want to still be in contact with him. And to try and control who we choose to stay in contact with is just blatantly an abuse of power.
I'm sorry if my original post didn't make as much sense as it should have. I went on a complete rant.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
kevsthabest said:
More out of curiosity but what was the action that was deemed ban able ? Since the posts it selves were removed and censored the members of this board are only seeing the hammer being thrown at the members.
Sent from my De-Sensed HTC Vivid using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you have a huge point. No one ever knows anything. And the rest of u's are left Pissed or feeling betrayed by the mods. For banning someone that we might have liked.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
MondoMor said:
No truer words have ever been spoken. This place is right up there with the goofiest.
From the little bit I've been able to glean from what's been left un-deleted, it seems a perfect storm of insecurity, disrespect, ignorance and arrogance has struck the Vivid forums these past few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha thx lol I didn't choose to proof read it. I was on a rant. Just didn't pay any attention. I even rambled a lil. Lol
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Aus_Azn said:
Correction: Pretty much ever since its inception.
Sent from my HTC Holiday using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
theshamrockking said:
And you have a huge point. No one ever knows anything. And the rest of u's are left Pissed or feeling betrayed by the mods. For banning someone that we might have liked.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The links (meaning more than one) that were contained in the posts themselves were a violation of the rules. Second, the content at the location of one links was directed to a whole thread on a different site that was nothing but false accusations. I personally felt that this should have warranted a ban of this other person, but after discussing with the other mods, i was shot down, so he was just warned. You should be aware that the mods act as a team, we do discuss things like these and get second opinions to try to keep everything level and fair. I am not saying we are perfect, but everything does generally end up in a discussion.
As stated above, the Vivid board has been a huge problem and pain in the a$$ since the beginning. People can blame the poor marketing strategy of device which resulted in slow development. But ultimately it boiled down to a lot of disrespect among members and dev's who failed to get along. This board is the furthest thing i have ever seen from a community effort, it's quite sad how the people on here have acted. I can honestly say that i have never experienced anything like it since i joined XDA back in 2006.
shogunmark said:
The links (meaning more than one) that were contained in the posts themselves were a violation of the rules. Second, the content at the location of one links was directed to a whole thread on a different site that was nothing but false accusations. I personally felt that this should have warranted a ban of this other person, but after discussing with the other mods, i was shot down, so he was just warned. You should be aware that the mods act as a team, we do discuss things like these and get second opinions to try to keep everything level and fair. I am not saying we are perfect, but everything does generally end up in a discussion.
As stated above, the Vivid board has been a huge problem and pain in the a$$ since the beginning. People can blame the poor marketing strategy of device which resulted in slow development. But ultimately it boiled down to a lot of disrespect among members and dev's who failed to get along. This board is the furthest thing i have ever seen from a community effort, it's quite sad how the people on here have acted. I can honestly say that i have never experienced anything like it since i joined XDA back in 2006.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that the whole as the vivid forum has be complete nonsense. And.I understand that u do have a job. And that it is to "police" the rest of us. And that's fine. But I don't believe that u should be able to stop us from being able to link to a dev who was banned. Stoping a link to a thread about hate mongering that's fine if u feel it's worthy. But to not allow us to make it easier for our own fellow members to find said dev. Is just childish. It seems like half of the devs have gone or have been banned. So a lot of us have to constantly check multiple places to get the fastest info and progress. And pretty soon there won't be any one left here. Is that really the best option? Why not work with the devs or the problematic individuals? I understand that can be a lot harder than it sounds. But be reasonable this phone already has enough issues with the fact that we have so few devs. Don't squash the last few we have. I think something should be worked out so every dev we know on this phone can try and work together. Or at least we try and find another great dev and buy him a vivid to help us out on.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Isn't it great when mods themselves don't even know the rules? In any case, I actually have a lot of great things to say about this dev community, since it's turned into "bash the vivid community."
A few things I'd like to address here (and hopefully SOMEONE reads it before this is deleted/account banned...only reason I created this account was for this one post). I even see a mod (shogunmark) bashing the community, when the devs inside it have very little issue working together:
This community is one of the best Android dev communities I've been a part of. You're more than likely shocked to hear that! The reason why is that I haven't encountered one dev here who has refused help, or not been kind to other devs. This excludes GSLeon3 who wanted to keep his work to himself and posted he would no longer release here, but linked to another site. I've worked with contactwajeeh (who will now be posting his work on rootz exclusively from what I understand due to moderation/having his IP leaked), rafyvitto (who left early on due to moderation), cruzin_cruzing, Leigh Kennedy, and KozmikKick (excluding the many devs on other devices of course).
I have always believed that android development should be about sharing info openly and helping one another since we do this as a hobby. There isn't fame in it. It's about wanting to make the device you own better, and then sharing it with others who have the same device. What you see here are mostly releases and support. To those of you who are on IRC actively, you see devs working together, asking each other for help when they need it, sharing logs, and letting each other know what they did to accomplish any given hurdle on this device. I left my previous main community due to major noncooperation between devs, and have been more than happy to find this incredible group that completely share my Android ideology. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD PROBLEMS WITH ONE DEV BEING UNKIND, OR UNHELPFUL. ONLY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION WAS A MODERATOR(applies to all of the devs on this device no doubt).
Moving on to my claims (which were promptly deleted before I was banned, so the users could not make up their own minds). I do security auditing/pen-testing for a living and enjoy practicing full discretion when possible. I felt it was my duty to make users aware of the potential security concern if it still was a problem. I made these posts after many various users found out their IP's had been leaked, and only posted in my own thread. I assumed moderation would be mature enough to let the users read what I had presented, and decide for themselves. Rather than act as if they're covering a whistle-blower!
Well, here's to hoping that moderation lets at the very least a few of the users who have come here for answers finish reading this before it's deleted and this account banned. I earnestly do not care about this account being banned. I would like this post to stay as-is since authority figures are slandering this device, and it's dev community with in-accurate information.
You stay classy XDA
BangBangKang said:
Isn't it great when mods themselves don't even know the rules? In any case, I actually have a lot of great things to say about this dev community, since it's turned into "bash the vivid community."
A few things I'd like to address here (and hopefully SOMEONE reads it before this is deleted/account banned...only reason I created this account was for this one post). I even see a mod (shogunmark) bashing the community, when the devs inside it have very little issue working together:
This community is one of the best Android dev communities I've been a part of. You're more than likely shocked to hear that! The reason why is that I haven't encountered one dev here who has refused help, or not been kind to other devs. This excludes GSLeon3 who wanted to keep his work to himself and posted he would no longer release here, but linked to another site. I've worked with contactwajeeh (who will now be posting his work on rootz exclusively from what I understand due to moderation/having his IP leaked), rafyvitto (who left early on due to moderation), cruzin_cruzing, Leigh Kennedy, and KozmikKick (excluding the many devs on other devices of course).
I have always believed that android development should be about sharing info openly and helping one another since we do this as a hobby. There isn't fame in it. It's about wanting to make the device you own better, and then sharing it with others who have the same device. What you see here are mostly releases and support. To those of you who are on IRC actively, you see devs working together, asking each other for help when they need it, sharing logs, and letting each other know what they did to accomplish any given hurdle on this device. I left my previous main community due to major noncooperation between devs, and have been more than happy to find this incredible group that completely share my Android ideology. I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD PROBLEMS WITH ONE DEV BEING UNKIND, OR UNHELPFUL. ONLY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION WAS A MODERATOR(applies to all of the devs on this device no doubt).
Moving on to my claims (which were promptly deleted before I was banned, so the users could not make up their own minds). I do security auditing/pen-testing for a living and enjoy practicing full discretion when possible. I felt it was my duty to make users aware of the potential security concern if it still was a problem. I made these posts after many various users found out their IP's had been leaked, and only posted in my own thread. I assumed moderation would be mature enough to let the users read what I had presented, and decide for themselves. Rather than act as if they're covering a whistle-blower!
Well, here's to hoping that moderation lets at the very least a few of the users who have come here for answers finish reading this before it's deleted and this account banned. I earnestly do not care about this account being banned. I would like this post to stay as-is since authority figures are slandering this device, and it's dev community with in-accurate information.
You stay classy XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I'm glad more people are speaking up. And even more so that people who know more about all of what's going on are speaking up.
Sent from my HTC PH39100
*SIGH*...not another one of these threads? You all are causing a ruckus over a developer who couldn't and didn't want to follow the rules and better yet could care less about any one of you. Please stop wasting your time and move on.
Related
To all,
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. We have been acting a lot in here only to see nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve the issue with Master (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section several months ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
If I get enough people agreeing to participate via this poll, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
From Papa_Smurf151 (thought of this message to be more universal, so I changed a thing or two to make it fit here ),
OK u guys...I know everyone is tired of all the drama on here. I have been talking to one of the mods through pm and gave a suggestion for a town hall meeting to discuss the problems as of late. The mod agreed that he and hopefully other mods would be willing to open a thread where we can discuss these issues. There will be no banning for what is said in this meeting but with a mod present and engaging in convo the tone needs to stay clean or semi at least. Failure would result in post being deleted. There will be rules that the mods what followed but its to keep the pease.
Look this cdma community has been split for a little while now. U can feel the tention in some post. Its time to stop the flaming and the trolling. This is not just about the Master thing even though that's what sent all of this overboard.
The mods only see part of this community and its the ugly side. They are harsh cause they are misinformed about certain people and certain actions. This is our opportunity to have a united voice and share how things really are and ideas on how to remedy them
Its time to reunite as the amazing community this used to be and get back to what really matters.
Feel free to comment. Please keep it clean. The more votes in the poll the better.
The meeting would be at a set time and heavily monitored then closed once alotted time had past. Please join and enjoy.
This is not the meeting. It is just a poll to let mods know we are serious and that we can behaive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is a great idea. I've been at XDA for some time now and i've never seen a forum get this out of hand. This will be a great opportunity for people to get things off their shoulder.
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
I like the concept & I'll participate if it happens, but I think jnutz is right. People are blatantly ignoring the rules simply because nothing happens to them if they don't.
People who like TeamWhiskey/Eugene/Master/[Anyone else I missed]... go into the threads of the ones they don't like/use and flame away and cause threads for an active ROM to be closed! This is insane!
I don't remember people being this rude and disrespectful of everyone else when I was looking up information for an old Windows Mobile phone or when I actually joined after I got my G1.
Maybe a combination of both approaches? Ban the people who are repeat offenders now and have the town hall meeting for the ones who aren't as big of disruptions?
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
As Ez said, its a more civilized method in which we can communicate openly with the Members of the fora in order to workout issues we have all witnessed. The Town Hall will be monitored by the moderators (myself included) in order to make sure we stay on topic and so that it can be of actual use for all of us. These town halls allow us to bring light onto issues users have been facing along with us moderators being able to give input and action ideas that have a general consensus. If you wish to see one that has happened before and see the outcome you can look here. As Ez told me, the previous one turned the whole forum around 180 degrees and the users in there are way better now. I look forward to this if we have one.
This is a good idea.. I've been a frequent visitor of xda since I have a G1. XDA has been my information resource for my devices (G1, mytouch 3G, mytouch slide, and Vibrant).. I have made donations also to some devs for their great work.. but I never bother to post questions or suggest solutions because of the trolling and flaming going on.. It would be very nice if everything will be put in order.. This is my first post..
I felt really bad when Eugene left XDA.. great dev.. but things are not so good..
Great Idea and ASAP
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
Same, same...no pun intended on shame, shame...
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
here.david said:
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the interest in helping but the moderators such as myself and Egz will be watching this (if it happens) along with a few others, thanks though
jnutz said:
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave. A lot of what goes on here resembles petty high school drama, take that **** to Facebook, not a development forum!
This won't solve anything. People need to realize that people who created this awesome site along with the ROMs, mods, and themes and etc. are doing this on their own free will and time, they are NOT getting paid...
People need to learn a little courtesy before anything.
/thread
almyz125 said:
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt taking down the bible would prove any worth, if anything it would harm the people that use it, and the assholes on this forum wouldn't even notice. Warnings and bans need to be given to those who violate the rules.
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
Yes but..........
scrizz said:
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The punks that should be banned... ok, ban them... then what ? they change their name and are back on different name same ****......... ok then what then? ban the isp?..........that algorithm too complex to manage so, although I totally agree with you, I do not see a practical way.......... but yes, ban them anyway for good measure. Then, as a collective body we would need to shun them as well. If people get no response from the forum members, sooner or later, they get the message and move on.....
Options
I would say, let's fo the town hall, and after that maybe before banning could you kind of redirect the offenders for let's say two or three days for half an hour every login to the rules page?
If that does not work either, then i would be all up for the french revolution tactic. off with their heads!
scrizz said:
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Scrizz,
They have worked in the past even for Forums that are like the Vibrant's, look here
If it's something that has worked in the past, it's worth a try. I don't think the "Cancer" will attend but it may help the non-problem users come up with better ways to deal with problems.
It might help and it certainly can't hurt. I vote yes.
egzthunder1 said:
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
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Click to collapse
Gotcha. I was (wrongfully) under the impression that this was a "is this a good idea" thread, so I basically answered 'no, you should enforce the rules', but it seems to be a "we want to do this because it's helped calm things down in the past, will you help us" thread.
And in answer to the question that you actually asked (rather than the question I inferred), if the timing doesn't conflict with anything in real life, I would definitely like to be a part of this discussion. The sooner it happens, the better because things are way out of hand.
Ok, so I've been reading quite a bit what's been going on in out little section of XDA lately(what can I say, I have a lot of free time), ad I have to say I'm a bit shocked. The bickering, flaming and general trash talking seems to be getting out of control. Now I've only been on here for about a year now, but the vibe on the T-mo GSII is not what I'd expect from XDA. The spirit of the community seems to have changed. So here's a suggestion; if you have beef with someone, take it to a PM, no one needs to see that you're pissed off about whatever you're pissed about. There has been way too much childish behavior floating around here for a forum about development and furthering the capabilities/software of our phones. So that being said, flame away lol /endrant
Thank you for saying it.
Well said
Sent from my Hercu-X!!
I completely agree, I have seen a lot of what is posted, and I choose to never comment or reply to it so as not to be a participant. But I see it, mostly ego driven irrelevant garbage that should be handled via pm as you are saying.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Amen brothers!!!! Its time to put differecnes aside and get back to doing what we love to do. Xda was and still can be a great thing if we can keep attitudes and childish behavior in check.
The mess has gotta seriously crazy. Everyone always fighting. This makes me sad. Words can not describe my sadness. Looks like its vibrant forums all over again
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Can someone make me a mod so I can just go through and delete all these threads?? I'm so sick of people *****ing and moaning about stupid stuff. Not to mention all the poor grammar. Language barrier aside, there needs to be some serious spellcheck usage going on in here. Half the posts aren't so poorly written they don't make sense.
So here's my offer: if xda makes me a mod, I will, without bias, actively remove garbage posts and ridiculousness from these forums. Seriously.
Bunch of immature kids stinking up our forums.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
It's honestly just the age of the users showing. There's a ton of n00bs and kids running around ready to gun for someone else's fight. Stick to what you know and never blindly follow someone just cause they are 'devin'.
InGeNeTiCs said:
Can someone make me a mod so I can just go through and delete all these threads?? I'm so sick of people *****ing and moaning about stupid stuff. Not to mention all the poor grammar. Language barrier aside, there needs to be some serious spellcheck usage going on in here. Half the posts aren't so poorly written they don't make sense.
So here's my offer: if xda makes me a mod, I will, without bias, actively remove garbage posts and ridiculousness from these forums. Seriously.
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I think that maybe you should proof read your messages before you send them. "Half the posts aren't so poorly written they don't make sense." That doesnt make sense.
Yea guys i just want to say that if any of u seen what hapoened in revolutions rom thread i just wanted to say that i am sorry for my actions. I was trying to stick up for the little kid. and this kid not going to put name out there came at me and got my family involved for no apparent reason. It kind of set me off after that but i just wanted to say again i am sorry for what happened in the thread. I like the community we have and we dont need **** like that
mike
+1
Totally agree boss.. I didn't notice this thread and started one of similar types.. but yeah, right there with you..
sarni84 said:
Yea guys i just want to say that if any of u seen what hapoened in revolutions rom thread i just wanted to say that i am sorry for my actions. I was trying to stick up for the little kid and this kid not going to put name out there came at me and got my family involved for no apparent reason. It kind of set me off after that but i just wanted to say again i am sorry for what happened in the thread. I like the community we hace and we dont need **** like that
mike
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S'all good brotherman, there is a lot of anger being guided by n00bs and kids. I personally was 'jumped' in melvins thread for asking him to remove |FASTEST EVER| BUG FREE | EPIC| from his rom title. I called out an obvious fallacy and was practically tortured, having even my own facebook brought up. The level of respect people are willing to trade for 'updates' is unfathomable. I had predicted this weeks ago after that little war started and had mentioned all the kanging, begging for donations, flaming of users. Those are not things this community wants, or needs from a dev. If you support that, or think it was wrong you are part of the problem. n00bs are thanking 100x + for a rom that has never been stable or even original, all the roms he claimed to make are just ports of old half done projects with stuff kanged from the real devs at whatever device forum he weaseled his way into.
Be aware XDA, stop giving support to people that steal, beg & flame or the community will surely parish.
hazard99 said:
The mess has gotta seriously crazy. Everyone always fighting. This makes me sad. Words can not describe my sadness. Looks like its vibrant forums all over again
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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There are so many people joining this community that hasn't the slightest idea of what they're joining. They get a cool phone, someone tells them "hey you should hack that, goto xda, you can hack anything over there!" They join and realize that you just can't plug and hack. We're getting newbies that rather not lurk and learn the language, rules, and customs of this community. You have people here who pushes the devs as if they owe something to us. You have people on here who don't have a basic understanding of technology, yet they continue post misleading information. This forum has become a haven for people to complain rather than problem solving, and most of it is coming from new people who don't understand what this forum is really suppose be!
I'm just sayin!
This happens because it is an American Forum, full of kids and brats and people who don't want to read. this **** didn't fly on the international version forum
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Such a great forum but sadly as long as there is kids there will be flaming and stupidity. It is why I stopped playing World of Warcraft, or any other game that involves the public. Ppl get behind a keyboard and become "Keyboard Warriors" they know they can say anything to anyone with out danger of physical harm regardless of how vile it is. When we all know 95% of everyone said on the internet wouldn't be said face to face ...... XDA should be about helping noobs and not flaming them because at one point some one helped us out of Noob status.
Krooked22 said:
This happens because it is an American Forum, full of kids and brats and people who don't want to read. this **** didn't fly on the international version forum
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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Not true .
princeasi said:
There are so many people joining this community that hasn't the slightest idea of what they're joining. They get a cool phone, someone tells them "hey you should hack that, goto xda, you can hack anything over there!" They join and realize that you just can't plug and hack. We're getting newbies that rather not lurk and learn the language, rules, and customs of this community. You have people here who pushes the devs as if they owe something to us. You have people on here who don't have a basic understanding of technology, yet they continue post misleading information. This forum has become a haven for people to complain rather than problem solving, and most of it is coming from new people who don't understand what this forum is really suppose be!
I'm just sayin!
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That was ultimately how I found XDA, I think the difference now, is how people are approaching this forum. When I started (first phone I rooted was a mytouch 3g slide) I read, read, and then re-read just to make sure. I never expected anything of anyone, asked questions, respectfully, mind you, only when I got stuck AFTER rereading the op. Whoever said it earlier I think hit the nail on the head, I think it has a lot to do with the age group of people who have been joining lately. Part of that ultimately makes be happy. Someone who starts tinkering(the right way) at the age of 16 will probably bring us big things in the future. The downside is you have kids, who are ultimately going to act their age. Now that is certainly not the case 100% of the time.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
I really don't bother with the negatives comments I blame tech sites and companies fighting about specs and numbers. most people here are phone/tech geeks so they are going to argue what phone/OS is better rather than arguing who's better Tupac or Biggie. I came here for one reason to MOD my phone and share experiences not to point fingers if you have a windows mobile or a low end android or to argue who got the hottest phone and specs. So I hope XDA continues to be a community to help each other rather than bashing the other phones choice.
Actually, if you look at the international board. It is actually productive and not littered with ignorance and children
The international community makes this one look pathetic, In terms of productivity and helpfulness
this board is littered with name calling , junk posts, and people who don't read. Resulting in a very unproductive and not helpful environment
The international makes this place look like a joke
........I know the problem is not the majority of users though so hopefully things get better
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
I will reiterate some of the rules below.
Do not demand things from developers. This may include feature requests for future releases. There is a line between respectfully requesting new features and disrespectfully demanding them. Learn it.
Do not swear on XDA-Developers ever.
Be kind and polite to all members, especially developers.
Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
Use the report button at the top right of each post to tell the moderation staff (me) that a post breaks the rules.
Do not give nonconstructive criticism to developers.
I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.
MJPollard said:
I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.
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What I meant by that insertion was that the Atrix forum community 8-9 months ago rarely/never behaved this way. The problem isn't necessarily with one forum or with XDA itself. I didn't mean to say that.
You nailed the problem on the head— people on the internet (no matter what forum you visit) will act as if there are no consequences and hide behind their web usernames.
Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
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The biggest issue, in my opinion.
Aside from the fact that users are often going "I'll donate IF you do this, IF I can have this by then" to developers.
This is more of an XDA Problem in general; with such a large user base, I suppose manners have simply disappeared on the forums.
Anyway, though I can't apologize on behalf of the rude and inconsiderate users you have probably dealt with, I'd like to personally say thank you for dealing with us all.
The demands made on the developers show a complete lack of respect and maturity, in my opinion.
The same should also be applied to fellow users. A little common respect for each other goes a long way. The constant bickering, name calling, and insults gets old fast.
Thanks for addressing this issue, Ken!
Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.
you tell'em oldschool!!!
kennethpenn said:
Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.
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LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.
sweetmyke said:
LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.
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Thanks for your input. Remember, the best way you can help keep our community great is to report people when they step out of line. Happy posting!
Another point which you can add :-
Please note that the devs have a personal life as well and do this for fun or learning new things in there free time. They have a day time job which pays for this hobby.Please respect that.
I apologise for sounding like an old man. I promise you i am not. This kind of thing had been a problem for a long time on Internet forums. Any one remember chat avenue? I believe that this has become more of a problem at xda because even though the site has any moderators their primary concern is technical and intellectual property. This is vital for a site such as this. But maybe there should be more enforcement of the rules of behavior? A couple of friendly warnings and advice and then failing that a tempory suspension. Failing that we trace their ip and send in a team of assassins.
i have to agree with this thread fully, sadly it came to this that it has to be stated so obvious, but some people really use words like "i want to have..." "make this..." and so on expressing rather demands than wishes/suggestions , it is true many users on xda are not native english speaking (me included), but there should be at least some thought put into posting so that it doesnt come out as demands or insults even.
As a non-english speaking dude, I *try* to avoid several expressions that perhaps in my native language may even sound polite, but translating them into english may sound bad, and express myself into simple english instead. If every non-english spoken people around here do the same, it will be easier separate the wheat from the straw...
My joining date don't make justice (at all) over the time I'm enjoying XDA developers' fruits, thus I want to express my most sincere thanks to every each developer and offer my humble help at anyone I can.
Keep doing the incredible job you're doing!!
As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.
My Story...
If you look at my join date, you'll see that I am also a very new member to these forums.
However, when I started, I was a total noob. So nooby that I got an infraction
I was only 16 and I knew nothing about ADB, editing build.prop's and all sorts; all I knew was how to flash stuff from recovery. I was admittedly a flash-o-holic, using Alien, Aura, DarkSide and Home Base ROM's and continuously switching back and forth.
Yet from this background, I have now created Neutrino ROM. The XDA forums as a community is a really good way to gain knowledge about all sort's of cool stuff. When used properly, it could really bring out the 'developer' inside of people. Creating my ROM was actually much easier than initially expected, and as time went on, I learnt more and more, enabling myself to include cooler and cooler tweaks.
My point is, that when these forums are used properly, it can really change people's lives. I think even Kennethpenn was in a similar situation, as I remember watching a video review of Alien ROM and it said in the description that he was a new developer.
It's a real shame that trolls cause all sorts of issues in the forums. If people respect each other and appreciate the benefits of open-source, then what a community this great community already, will be.
Twist79 said:
As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.
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Fair enough. If you think your message may be unclear, just make sure to say "English is my second language" or something. I know the feeling. When I speak to people in Spanish, I can accidentally sound rude and not even know it.
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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Good point!
Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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I fully agree with you, this has happened to me in Simply-android, made a request, but translated into English for the dev sounded bad, I had difficulty explaining that there was an obrigation, but a request ...
ps: is now happening again ....# 1158, # 1159 ....... sometimes it seems they are just waiting for someone to ask for something to start the insults ...
this is very sad ...
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I'm speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
kennethpenn said:
I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
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live4nyy said:
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
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I hate you!
I keed, I keed.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Edited for the lord moderators.
Jumping crackerjacks! A petition!! YAY!!
/me cracks knuckles....
Where to start? For starters, I think that the best course of action is to take your entire petition apart and basically counter each and every single one of your "points".
you said:
The enthusiasts at xda have built a thriving community of people at various skill levels all in the name of pushing the potential of our devices. In recent years membership has surged to nearly astronomical numbers, but this ultimately has lead to a very large issue. Newer members need help that is understood but at the same time XDA's rule #1 is to search.
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True to all this...
you said:
Moderators and staff have turned a blind eye to this rule using the justification of ignorance.
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I am sorry... what? Are you seriously accusing the moderator staff of pretending that the rule does not exist?? And calling moderators/members/both ignorant? Under what grounds are you calling people ignorant? The "art" of searching on the site is not dead and we enforce it by reminding people that they need to search. We are not going to go around banning and infracting every person who asks something without searching because that would be ridiculous and a monumental waste of time. Four things can happen out of people not searching and asking right away:
1. They get the answer;
2. They get flamed;
3. They get directed to the answer and then flamed;
4. They get reported to us, in which case, most moderators will direct the person in the appropriate direction with a little reminder of where the search button is located.
The last one does not often happen because people over the years have learned to ask and wait for an answer in the correct section. So, moderator involvement for this minor offense has been limited to moving the question to Q&A for the most part.
Get your facts straight before you go off accusing people of things you don't even know.
you said:
People are not required to search or read which has lead to many threads becoming chaotic and often flooded with the same questions repeated many times. I know I personally have reported these people only to be told the moderators will not take action against those who blatantly disregard rule #1.
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Again, read above. The only action we do take is to move the question out of the thread and into the proper area. Some moderators will go the extra mile and help the person in question (I know I still do to this day whenever I move a question... if I know the answer, I move the question and reply to it trying to help the member). I have been a member for FAR longer than you have been (and I know that your reg date is not when you started using our site) and "not searching" or posting questions where they don't belong has been an issue for as long as I can remember. People are, have, and will ALWAYS be required to search. In fact, in order to tackle this we have gone the extra mile and implemented things like Q&A areas, XDA Assist, etc. However, we do not ban people for not searching, plain and simple... never have, and never will. Your thread and the petition are called "equal enforcement of the rules", if you have reported members as many times as you claim, and have always gotten the same response (mods will take no further actions other than maybe moving the question), then I would think that the enforcement is rather even across the board.
you said:
Nearly every bit of information you could ever need exists on XDA but as people continue to clutter the site with nonsense and repeated questions it becomes harder and harder to find the relevant info creating a cycle that needs to be broken sooner rather than later.
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The forum will continue to grow... I am sorry but there is no cycle to be broken. What needs to happen is that users need to be educated to know how to search for the information they so desperately need.
you said:
I petition the one of three things happen at xda, 1.) Remove rule #1 completely " This would resolve this issue as if the rule does not exist then there is not need for a reaction by the staff thereby eliminating the inequality in the staffs treatment of offenders for rule violations."
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With all due respect, why don't we also eliminate the 10 Commandments while we are at it? Eliminating the "Thou shall not kill", should alleviate all the tensions in the Middle East and people would not get so riled up every time a bomb goes off near a school, don't you think? Screw speed limits as well!! This is great! I will get to floor my Bugatti Veyron in a school zone!!!! YAY.... Anarchy FTW!
you said:
2.) Create a rule for the moderation staff to enforce all rules equally "This would solve the issue utilizing the current issue escalation, users will be warned upon first offense and then it will escalate into points being added and eventually banning."
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Uhmm... that is exactly how we do things, except for special cases such as people posting racist, religious, sexual, or other kinds of comments aimed at someone's persona (death threats or threats of physical violence for instance). Spammers/spambots are probably the only other time we go for the kill right away. We take most cases to the absolute extreme in attempts to educate our users and try to give them chances. To put things in perspective, normally, for regular offenses, a member is not banned until like the 3rd or 4th time a moderator has to be in touch with him/her. (warning->infraction->infraction->short ban->Longer ban->permanent ban).... quite a few opportunities before a member is denied access altogether, if you ask me.
you said:
3.) Give each device a Jr. Moderator that actually owns and spends time in said devices section. " Moderators are volunteers, typically you have a strict set of criteria that the more knowledgeable and irritated users cannot meet. Ignore past offenses and create a set of standards for these users that allow them to help maintain their sections while also keeping their attitudes in check."
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Why don't we go ahead and employ a sex offender as a kindergarten teacher as well? Forget about past offenses.... Our moderators must meet certain criteria to be accepted as moderators, but knowledge about a specific device is not one of them. You know why? Because in this day and age, where devices become obsolete within a year of release, and people changing them that often, we would have to fire all of/most of our staff within a year's time. Each device has a TEAM of moderators assigned to it (more than 1 "jr moderator") We had "your model" until some time in 2010-2011, right around the dawn of Android, but it didn't work anymore due to the sheer growth of the site (both in number of fora and member base). So, as for your idea (the part about the Jr mod anyways)... been there, done that. As for the rest of your idea, about using "bad members" with a relaxed set of criteria to moderate the site.... how about no?
you said:
There are only about 100 moderators for the whole site. Given the sheer number of members which is in the millions now, 100 is an unacceptable number and there is no way they could maintain the forums with any level of efficiency or standards.
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And what is, according to you anyways, an acceptable number? 1:1 ratio? 1:10000? I am sorry but the fora are extremely well maintained for the sheer number of people who frequent the site. Also, you do realize that having the moderator title is FAR more than just having the ability to ban people, right? It involves training, discussions, policy creation, resource management. This is a far more complex engine that you think it is. I seriously believe that you haven't got the faintest clue as to what you are saying/suggesting here as you haven't got a clue as to how the site actually works or how it has evolved over the last 5 years or so.
So, all things considered, it looks like #2 is something we already do.... so, we complied with one of the above points, which is what your petition was going for.
Thank you for playing.
PS. You posted in the wrong section. Why didn't you search for the correct section to post? It should have been posted in General, not Off Topic. Now I am simply going to open the floor to everyone (moderators and OT regulars alike), to do what you all do best with threads.....
I SUMMON CATS, SPIDEY, AND PONIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Did I do it right...?
@egzthunder1 I respect your opinion but I still disagree with you. Things are still off and reporting doesn't seem to help so of course you will continue the way you have and that's fine. I do understand the system but it's flawed to me.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Also I've had this in general and off topic after the other was deleted.
Oh for the love of god, why do people find it so hard to follow rules. I've been a member of xda for over 2 years and I've only had an issue with a recognized developer once and it was my own fault for being stupid. Is this really being brought up? C'mon now people... move on with the little incidental things
TheCybertronian said:
@egzthunder1 I respect your opinion but I still disagree with you. Things are still off and reporting doesn't seem to help so of course you will continue the way you have and that's fine. I do understand the system but it's flawed to me.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
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Baby tasting foot
Argument invalid
---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------
ShapesBlue said:
Oh for the love of god, why do people find it so hard to follow rules. I've been a member of xda for over 2 years and I've only had an issue with a recognized developer once and it was my own fault for being stupid. Is this really being brought up? C'mon now people... move on with the little incidental things
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Rational thought
boborone said:
Baby tasting foot
Argument invalid
---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------
Rational thought
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Yea and a little lighter fluid lol
And for the record I do notice a lot of people not bothering to search, I'll go out of my way mostly because I enjoy helping people and letting them know what I've learned by simply reading but some people take it to the extreme
Thank you all for proving that the rules only apply when they are convenient. As these moderators have allowed the flaming instead of moderating and deleting. I posted my opinion and I was trying to see if others felt the same. Even if you don't you've broken the very rules you agreed to uphold. Well done.
TheCybertronian said:
@egzthunder1 I respect your opinion but I still disagree with you. Things are still off and reporting doesn't seem to help so of course you will continue the way you have and that's fine. I do understand the system but it's flawed to me.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
Also I've had this in general and off topic after the other was deleted.
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Actually I would dare say you do NOT understand the system, thus why it seems flawed to you. Given that we already do one of the things that you suggested we do, seems to me that you just plain don't understand how we do things.
XDA membership is not a right, nor is it mandated - it is a privilege and if you just can't understand it or don't like it, there's no one standing around you demanding that you stay on XDA.
If there is though, blink twice so we can alert the proper authorities.
ShapesBlue said:
Yea and a little lighter fluid lol
And for the record I do notice a lot of people not bothering to search, I'll go out of my way mostly because I enjoy helping people and letting them know what I've learned by simply reading but some people take it to the extreme
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Yes you are correct. People will always whinge, not follow rules, not search, etc. I will say though, good work going above and beyond to share what you have learned. That is what XDA is about.
jerdog said:
Yes you are correct. People will always whinge, not follow rules, not search, etc. I will say though, good work going above and beyond to share what you have learned. That is what XDA is about.
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"People will always whinge, ..."
"whinge"
WHINGE
???
[emoji117] [emoji108] ?
There it's been removed highnesses.
Anyone have a link to the petition?
I can haz petition link?
jerdog said:
Yes you are correct. People will always whinge, not follow rules, not search, etc. I will say though, good work going above and beyond to share what you have learned. That is what XDA is about.
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I figure I learned it by reading what other people posted and those same people that helped me I can go to if I need help. Nothing like passing along what you've learned, it definitely helps others
From my S3 on Wicked 4.3
TheCybertronian said:
There it's been removed highnesses.
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So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
abde27 said:
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
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I agree with you. If you frequent the forums. You can piece it together when you read bits in different forums. There's still some rom makers and cm13 is being cooked. But unless something changes I reckon in that next 3-4 months. Note 5 is going to become a waste land. Or *young devs* will remain. Nothing wrong with them but.. You know what I mean. Compared to devs that have always done this kind of thing. So I think it's going to dwindle slowly. And then just fade off. Specially when the note 6/other devices hit. Game over...... That's my bet
I totally agree, the issue is there are just so many variants for Samsung devices now its hard for the developers to keep up with every device. Back when I had the Note 3 there were only two variants whereas now there are more than 5 variants for the Note 5.
Even the amount of actual devices there are, there are just too many Samsung are releasing. Back in 2013 there were only 'flagship' devices being developed for as they were the only ones worth developing for, but now there are low-mid range devices that can have a lot of development potential.
If its going to be poor development like this for the Note 5 in the near future or even possibly the Note 6 I might just buy the next Nexus device. I had only bought the Note 5 as I had the Note 4,3 and 2 and the Note line-up was always more powerful than the regular flagship devices.
I've seen and heard complaints about the moderation teams, and I've seen many, many developers come and go on these forums. What most of you do not see is the reason that some of these "developers" leave badmouthing the moderators.
We have a very lenient set of rules here, yet many people feel the need to try to push the boundaries of them, some much more than others.
We have had "developers" leave because they got busted stealing others work, because they got busted trying to make money off of the users here, busted for trying to get users to buy them devices, computers, etc...
We've had our fair share of those who let the "fame" go to their heads and began believing they were above the rules.
And finally, what you don't see, is that we try to work with these people, for the community's sake, to correct the problems, long before they are reprimanded for their actions. In the end it comes down to these people not getting their way, so they take their ball and go home, all the while complaining about the big, bad moderators.
You can choose to believe what you wish, but believe me when I tell you that development is dying because the type of developers that you're seeing more and more of, truly don't care about the community unless you line their pockets or subjugate yourselves to their abuse.
Why do you not see a great majority of the above in the forums? We moderators clean it up so that the community thrives, because really, who wants to support a developer that belittles, berates and humiliates his supporters? Ask him that on whatever social media he's taken up to complain about how he was treated here...
Thank you. I am personally not against moderators. They save threads again and again when things get out of hand. Without moderators, XDA might not be here still.
All I'm asking for is some transparency. To see if a developer left because of moderators or because they themselves broke rules, or whatever the reason is. A device with a lot of development behind it doesn't need that type of transparency because if someone leaves, it doesn't hurt the overall community if there are others working on it. But in a small community like this, it's harder to swallow. If a developer leaves claiming that the moderation team forced them away then maybe the moderation team should give their side of the story so the community knows what's going on, and if there are people interested in developing for the device that they have a frame of reference of knowing what is acceptable here and what isn't.
I hope that makes sense. And I know being transparent isn't the easiest thing to do. But if people are seeing that moderators are being blamed when developers leave and moderators staying quiet, then what kind of message does that send?
There's a clear line between acceptable transparency and airing out other people's dirty laundry in a publicly visible space. It's easy to ask for transparency when someone else is at fault, but imagine being on the other side--transparency might not be the word you'd use to describe it. As far as what's acceptable and what's not, the forum rules are sufficiently clear. Stay within the bounds of that document and you'll have no trouble from the mods. Our goal is to make this a developer-friendly environment that encourages everyone to contribute.
I agree that there is a difference but we are looking at a device that is losing devs by the minute. I do not want to start a political revolution here, or change rules. I do not expect development for the Note5. I would like to see development, but I'm not expecting it. It's very heartbreaking seeing that this forum is mysteriously losing developers for a device not even a year old.
If anything, lets work together to create a place for development to flourish, just like the rules ask us to.
yeah seems like all the big devs are leaving and we left with roms updated from December. All threads are closed without any explanation. Kinda sad since the note 5 really needs more devs to develop. great device but if there's no support from devs. i will stay away from samsung for a while.
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
Lam pham said:
Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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I read his post where he explain something about problems with moderator(s) and I saw a strange phrase something like "developers need help from moderators" or something similar to it, but I don't understand WHAT help a moderator could give to the Dev.
More over I don't understand why a Dev could think to leave a community due to problems with moderator(s)....Moderators manage rules and I don't figure out how this could touch/ruins Dev's work.
All of this is strange for me.
At the end of the day, every closed thread here is closed because there was an issue revolving around kanging of people's work- that's where it STARTS...from there mods are forced to step in, and it's at this stage that SOMEONE will always feel they were done wrong- either thru uneducated assumptions on things like the GPL or apache licenses and what is or is not acceptable to document "credit given" and "permission" to maintain compliance with these licenses- or it's knowingly stolen...the mods start taking heat when they moderate with their emotions not their duty, take it from a guy just again logging in again after a ban issued in anger...only to find a ghost town...believe me when i say you'll never get transparency. I just read a mod basically call out uita in "whatever social circle he's in" and very tastelessly degrade him when he can't defend himself- at the end of the day this is the mod's sandbox- i can't even count now how many times I've seen MY statement repeated (take their ball and go home) by multiple mods who obviously read MY feelings on it all- but again, it's your sandbox boys...I've been told half a dozen times now that this is a private site, the mods don't owe us anything for explanations, nor will we get them (at least not truthful ones because no one will admit fault), and that none of this was even acceptable to discuss, not would it be, in public. my response was simply that public outcry would need to be answered eventually and here it is, inevitably, as i predicted. I stood for what i believed to be right, i got banned. Every mod told me i was wrong to even voice an opinion, and how dare that opinion contrast, it was against the rules, if i didn't agree then kick rocks and this 2 week ban will give me time to reflect. Well, that's the same attitude that pushed away a few devs, and even tekhd, apparently, cuz i come back and tekhd, evren, drketan, all have locked threads and are currently ceased development on xda...
Devs will come and go, that's the nature of the beast, but the Note 5 forums you currently see are the results of something else. I've always considered myself to be a rational person very open to hearing out another's side, but all i got was banned and told it ain't a democracy, shut up or get out and stay out. That was my honest experience. Fwiw...
Lam pham said:
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
haifish9999 said:
You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
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I hope it's not a case of " Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad". (As in Animal Farm story)
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Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
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The winter is coming .....
I've been banned myself for well over 3 weeks and I stopped the work I was doing for another phone. The mod thought it was ok to keep deleting my messages and close my thread so I can't say that all the mods are perfect and do the right thing.. Seems more like moderating from emotion or stress... I can understand why he left the community and for those that don't know that doing any type of dev work usually takes hours upon hours, weeks even months just to get something made perfectly and then a moderator bans him and basically made him feel worthless with all the time spent working on stuff.. You'd be mad too if this was done to yourself!!
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
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Rx8Driver said:
I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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Hi, feel free. Thanks for openly admitting you violated forum rules after the long post stating you were banned for 2 weeks for voicing your opinion. But at least you admitted it finally. I guess your statement that PM is PM, somehow means it is ok to lie to moderators then post how you got wronged..whatever.
As for everyone else in this thread concerned about reality and development...moderators want nothing but more development. We do not run off developers. And as stated we actually invest a lot of our volunteer time in PMs trying to work things out with developers. I have lots of developers that I talked out of leaving and they come to me with their issues...sometimes we can help them...sometimes we can't. In UITA's case. we couldn't because GPL rules over XDA rules. All kernel developers should know this when pulling code from any git. I have had many good conversations with UITA and he came to me often with issues. This time he came to me and asked about the ruling for kernels. I explained it to him and not even sure if he ever read it because he exploded at about the same time. I hope he takes this time to refresh and recharge and considers coming back after his "vacation." But that is up to him. I am here to work with him when he is ready to let him know the boundaries...the same boundaries that every one of the hundreds of kernel developers on XDA deal with.
The best thing to do might be to encourage UITA in PM to relax and work within the system and do what he does best. I can help him to ensure his credits are properly preserved in his commits and in threads. All he has to do is ask.
I will also add, YES i did in fact create an extra account. Plainly and openly...and it's here nor there because the root of the issue wasn't accounts...it was my opinion...creating an account to circumvent a ban is petty...at least when the ban is originally due to a difference of opinion and instead of working thru it whoever actually banned me decided to do that...
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---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------
If there's some other dirty laundry i got around here other than testing for devs and working on synapse profiles, and feedback on roms, and helping noobs find their way I'd love to see it...
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---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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And whoa whoa whoa...i never denied making that account. It's DroidPro35....i NEVER denied that, pm or not.
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---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------
Lastly, and I'm finished with it is i have every pm between myself and bajanman and between myself and JJD...I'll gladly post them all, i was angrier two weeks ago, but there's nothing in any of them leading up to my ban that wasn't plain and simple language describing what's been transgressing here...and say what you will about uita, yeah he's got a reputation for being harsh, but over the past few months he'd come a long way from when he and i first "met"...I'd say, for him, publicly at least he'd been on his best behavior and even gentle on the noobs and all...
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---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
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Did you mean here? Cuz i said DID....like not DIDNT...so like i did...and who cares if i admit it? The ban for that is already over...time served and all that...