Database Develop

[poll] Is anyone interested in town hall meeting with mod participation?

To all,
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. We have been acting a lot in here only to see nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve the issue with Master (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section several months ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
If I get enough people agreeing to participate via this poll, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
From Papa_Smurf151 (thought of this message to be more universal, so I changed a thing or two to make it fit here ),
OK u guys...I know everyone is tired of all the drama on here. I have been talking to one of the mods through pm and gave a suggestion for a town hall meeting to discuss the problems as of late. The mod agreed that he and hopefully other mods would be willing to open a thread where we can discuss these issues. There will be no banning for what is said in this meeting but with a mod present and engaging in convo the tone needs to stay clean or semi at least. Failure would result in post being deleted. There will be rules that the mods what followed but its to keep the pease.
Look this cdma community has been split for a little while now. U can feel the tention in some post. Its time to stop the flaming and the trolling. This is not just about the Master thing even though that's what sent all of this overboard.
The mods only see part of this community and its the ugly side. They are harsh cause they are misinformed about certain people and certain actions. This is our opportunity to have a united voice and share how things really are and ideas on how to remedy them
Its time to reunite as the amazing community this used to be and get back to what really matters.
Feel free to comment. Please keep it clean. The more votes in the poll the better.
The meeting would be at a set time and heavily monitored then closed once alotted time had past. Please join and enjoy.
This is not the meeting. It is just a poll to let mods know we are serious and that we can behaive.
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I think this is a great idea. I've been at XDA for some time now and i've never seen a forum get this out of hand. This will be a great opportunity for people to get things off their shoulder.

I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.

I like the concept & I'll participate if it happens, but I think jnutz is right. People are blatantly ignoring the rules simply because nothing happens to them if they don't.
People who like TeamWhiskey/Eugene/Master/[Anyone else I missed]... go into the threads of the ones they don't like/use and flame away and cause threads for an active ROM to be closed! This is insane!
I don't remember people being this rude and disrespectful of everyone else when I was looking up information for an old Windows Mobile phone or when I actually joined after I got my G1.
Maybe a combination of both approaches? Ban the people who are repeat offenders now and have the town hall meeting for the ones who aren't as big of disruptions?

We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)

As Ez said, its a more civilized method in which we can communicate openly with the Members of the fora in order to workout issues we have all witnessed. The Town Hall will be monitored by the moderators (myself included) in order to make sure we stay on topic and so that it can be of actual use for all of us. These town halls allow us to bring light onto issues users have been facing along with us moderators being able to give input and action ideas that have a general consensus. If you wish to see one that has happened before and see the outcome you can look here. As Ez told me, the previous one turned the whole forum around 180 degrees and the users in there are way better now. I look forward to this if we have one.

This is a good idea.. I've been a frequent visitor of xda since I have a G1. XDA has been my information resource for my devices (G1, mytouch 3G, mytouch slide, and Vibrant).. I have made donations also to some devs for their great work.. but I never bother to post questions or suggest solutions because of the trolling and flaming going on.. It would be very nice if everything will be put in order.. This is my first post..
I felt really bad when Eugene left XDA.. great dev.. but things are not so good..

Great Idea and ASAP
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when

Same, same...no pun intended on shame, shame...
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...

here.david said:
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
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oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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Thanks for the interest in helping but the moderators such as myself and Egz will be watching this (if it happens) along with a few others, thanks though

jnutz said:
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
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civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!

I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave. A lot of what goes on here resembles petty high school drama, take that **** to Facebook, not a development forum!

This won't solve anything. People need to realize that people who created this awesome site along with the ROMs, mods, and themes and etc. are doing this on their own free will and time, they are NOT getting paid...
People need to learn a little courtesy before anything.
/thread

almyz125 said:
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave.
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I doubt taking down the bible would prove any worth, if anything it would harm the people that use it, and the assholes on this forum wouldn't even notice. Warnings and bans need to be given to those who violate the rules.

Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?

Yes but..........
scrizz said:
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
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The punks that should be banned... ok, ban them... then what ? they change their name and are back on different name same ****......... ok then what then? ban the isp?..........that algorithm too complex to manage so, although I totally agree with you, I do not see a practical way.......... but yes, ban them anyway for good measure. Then, as a collective body we would need to shun them as well. If people get no response from the forum members, sooner or later, they get the message and move on.....

Options
I would say, let's fo the town hall, and after that maybe before banning could you kind of redirect the offenders for let's say two or three days for half an hour every login to the rules page?
If that does not work either, then i would be all up for the french revolution tactic. off with their heads!

scrizz said:
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
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Hey Scrizz,
They have worked in the past even for Forums that are like the Vibrant's, look here

If it's something that has worked in the past, it's worth a try. I don't think the "Cancer" will attend but it may help the non-problem users come up with better ways to deal with problems.
It might help and it certainly can't hurt. I vote yes.

egzthunder1 said:
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
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Gotcha. I was (wrongfully) under the impression that this was a "is this a good idea" thread, so I basically answered 'no, you should enforce the rules', but it seems to be a "we want to do this because it's helped calm things down in the past, will you help us" thread.
And in answer to the question that you actually asked (rather than the question I inferred), if the timing doesn't conflict with anything in real life, I would definitely like to be a part of this discussion. The sooner it happens, the better because things are way out of hand.

[REF] How NOT to Treat Developers

I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
I will reiterate some of the rules below.
Do not demand things from developers. This may include feature requests for future releases. There is a line between respectfully requesting new features and disrespectfully demanding them. Learn it.
Do not swear on XDA-Developers ever.
Be kind and polite to all members, especially developers.
Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
Use the report button at the top right of each post to tell the moderation staff (me) that a post breaks the rules.
Do not give nonconstructive criticism to developers.

I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.

MJPollard said:
I agree with almost everything you said, Ken, except the part about this being an Atrix forum problem. From what I've seen, this is a growing problem in all of XDA as new people join the conversations, a growing number of people who feel free to say any damn thing they like without consequence simply because they're hidden behind a handle (without taking into account that there are real people just like them on the other side of their screens). Respectfully, it seems to me that to single out the Atrix forums for this problem -- which they do have, no question about it -- seems rather short-sighted.
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What I meant by that insertion was that the Atrix forum community 8-9 months ago rarely/never behaved this way. The problem isn't necessarily with one forum or with XDA itself. I didn't mean to say that.
You nailed the problem on the head— people on the internet (no matter what forum you visit) will act as if there are no consequences and hide behind their web usernames.

Be civil. There is a fine line between healthy debate and arguing. Do not cross that line.
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The biggest issue, in my opinion.
Aside from the fact that users are often going "I'll donate IF you do this, IF I can have this by then" to developers.
This is more of an XDA Problem in general; with such a large user base, I suppose manners have simply disappeared on the forums.
Anyway, though I can't apologize on behalf of the rude and inconsiderate users you have probably dealt with, I'd like to personally say thank you for dealing with us all.

The demands made on the developers show a complete lack of respect and maturity, in my opinion.
The same should also be applied to fellow users. A little common respect for each other goes a long way. The constant bickering, name calling, and insults gets old fast.
Thanks for addressing this issue, Ken!

Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.

you tell'em oldschool!!!
kennethpenn said:
Yeah. I think you guys touched on an important point: Treat people on XDA as you would politely in real life.
There are no robots on XDA. Each account has a real person behind it— a real person that can be frustrated, embarrassed, angry, and self-conscious.
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LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.

sweetmyke said:
LoL,I just called you oldschool cuz your one of the if not the original atrix dev but anyways I been apart of the xda community for over a year and just started posting like a couple Weeks ago just so I can help out with whatever I can because of all the help I been getting....just trying to give back like everyone else should be doing .I just wanna say thanks to everyone for the good work and making my phone worth having.
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Thanks for your input. Remember, the best way you can help keep our community great is to report people when they step out of line. Happy posting!

Another point which you can add :-
Please note that the devs have a personal life as well and do this for fun or learning new things in there free time. They have a day time job which pays for this hobby.Please respect that.

I apologise for sounding like an old man. I promise you i am not. This kind of thing had been a problem for a long time on Internet forums. Any one remember chat avenue? I believe that this has become more of a problem at xda because even though the site has any moderators their primary concern is technical and intellectual property. This is vital for a site such as this. But maybe there should be more enforcement of the rules of behavior? A couple of friendly warnings and advice and then failing that a tempory suspension. Failing that we trace their ip and send in a team of assassins.

i have to agree with this thread fully, sadly it came to this that it has to be stated so obvious, but some people really use words like "i want to have..." "make this..." and so on expressing rather demands than wishes/suggestions , it is true many users on xda are not native english speaking (me included), but there should be at least some thought put into posting so that it doesnt come out as demands or insults even.

As a non-english speaking dude, I *try* to avoid several expressions that perhaps in my native language may even sound polite, but translating them into english may sound bad, and express myself into simple english instead. If every non-english spoken people around here do the same, it will be easier separate the wheat from the straw...
My joining date don't make justice (at all) over the time I'm enjoying XDA developers' fruits, thus I want to express my most sincere thanks to every each developer and offer my humble help at anyone I can.
Keep doing the incredible job you're doing!!

As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.

My Story...
If you look at my join date, you'll see that I am also a very new member to these forums.
However, when I started, I was a total noob. So nooby that I got an infraction
I was only 16 and I knew nothing about ADB, editing build.prop's and all sorts; all I knew was how to flash stuff from recovery. I was admittedly a flash-o-holic, using Alien, Aura, DarkSide and Home Base ROM's and continuously switching back and forth.
Yet from this background, I have now created Neutrino ROM. The XDA forums as a community is a really good way to gain knowledge about all sort's of cool stuff. When used properly, it could really bring out the 'developer' inside of people. Creating my ROM was actually much easier than initially expected, and as time went on, I learnt more and more, enabling myself to include cooler and cooler tweaks.
My point is, that when these forums are used properly, it can really change people's lives. I think even Kennethpenn was in a similar situation, as I remember watching a video review of Alien ROM and it said in the description that he was a new developer.
It's a real shame that trolls cause all sorts of issues in the forums. If people respect each other and appreciate the benefits of open-source, then what a community this great community already, will be.

Twist79 said:
As a non-native speaker it's not easy to hit the right tone. Most try their best but I think for some its hard to formulate a polite request, feature suggestion or bug report as such in a foreign language. And sometimes it comes out as a forceful command even if unintended.
And yes then there is the problem of individuals who can't even be polite in their own language because they never learned.
Lastly there are life forms who do not want to be polite without cause of beeing provoked.
For the first group I hope you use the principle of benefit of the doubt.
For the second we could try to teach them.
For the third just ban them.
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Fair enough. If you think your message may be unclear, just make sure to say "English is my second language" or something. I know the feeling. When I speak to people in Spanish, I can accidentally sound rude and not even know it.

I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.

Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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Good point!

Twist79 said:
I see a Nation flag of the user beside most posts.
If its not US, UK, Australia (please forgive me for not listing all other English native speaking Nation) I just consider it an accident if he was rude.
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I fully agree with you, this has happened to me in Simply-android, made ​​a request, but translated into English for the dev sounded bad, I had difficulty explaining that there was an obrigation, but a request ...
ps: is now happening again ....# 1158, # 1159 ....... sometimes it seems they are just waiting for someone to ask for something to start the insults ...
this is very sad ...

I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I'm speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
kennethpenn said:
I can't believe I have to write this post. Not long ago, the Atrix community on XDA-Developers was one of the most civil, respectful, and kind groups out there. Now, it appears new members have either joined and not learned the rules. Or, perhaps the older members forgot the rules. I'm ashamed and sad that the Atrix community let me down.
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live4nyy said:
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that some "veterans" of XDA can also be the problem. Some users like to act as the Judge and Jury all by themselves.
Now, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent, sometimes I take my shots at some people that are being malcontent but I do try to help them in that situation. What I have tried doing is to provide assistance with a dose of mild, if not playful, "flaming" just as a friendly reminder of the rules and etiquette. For the most part, I usually get positive responses in those instances. I guess my point is, it might be okay to, every once in awhile, criticize someone as long as you are trying to help and are being positive about it.
I can relate to @Notorious544d about being a n00b. One of my very first posts on XDA was a thread I started in the Development forum asking a question But I was met with positive feedback and a reminder of the rules and I haven't done it again.
Now, if you find yourself in a position where you can't be positive or constructive in your response then either ignore it or report it. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't step out of bounds on this one.
EDIT: I speaking about when interacting with other users and not developers.
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I hate you!
I keed, I keed.
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium

Dialogue between users and Mods...temporary thread will be temporary.

M_T_M said:
OK....after a major clean up this here thread should be back on topic.
@ OP....please carry on with maintaining this thread orginized. If don't wanna, PM and we'll change OPs.
No more tolling, please.
Cheers,
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"holding "
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

jugg1es said:
Sorry m8,but if you thought just a cleanup was what I was after then you misunderstood my reasons. It's a lot more than just a thread cleanup that's needed in OT, things have happened over the last few months that have driven good regular people away. Maybe an attitude shift is what's really needed and a closer look at why these people have stopped posting.
This is my last post in here, anyway "good luck and thanks for all the fish"
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome
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@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]

orangekid said:
@jugg1es
[FONT=&quot]I honestly have no idea what you're referring to here, but honestly you should send a PM to someone here you trust about your concerns. At the end of the day, we can't fix something that we don't know is a problem.
I always read and reply to PMs.
As for this thread, it's still a great thread and I would hate for it to die after all the hard work of categorizing and organizing the great work of moderators past and present, so I will take over the thread if you do not want to continue updating it or no longer feel the passion of "gold digging" if you will. Let me know or @M_T_M and we go from there.
Godspeed my friend...[/FONT]
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I'm currently chatting with M_T_M regarding this.
I would also hate to see the good things in this thread go, I also want it to continue in a decent vein. I'm gonna wait for a bit and see what happens
the difference between bravery and foolhardiness is in the outcome

M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
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Sorry to see you go Glenn.

vanessaem said:
Sorry to see you go Glenn.
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Better to walk away than get thrown out for saying something stupid regardless of how truthful I think it is
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

jugg1es said:
M_T_M it's not going to work, there is no going back and ot has gone downhill too far for any sort of recovery, judging from the lack of listening that goes on and the overzealous moderation I've seen lately (ie a screenshot of a poxy benchmark deleted and the post that quoted it, then a thread closure because 3 people said they were out) is just the sign of things to come. I have respect for a lot of mods here unfortunately not enough of them to make this an unbiased LULZ thread. The conversation has gone in ot, the LULZ are dead and the good people of ot are being driven away in droves for fear of being infracted for stupid stuff and or possible ban. Just stick a fork in me now, I'm done. I'm going to go and decide if this is still the sandwich shop for me (@conantroutman) before I decide whether to get my account deleted. So long, it was fun a while back. Glenn
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris
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LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...

M_T_M said:
LOLQUE??!!
But, but, but...u mad tho?
What ever happened to "let's talk about it" and "if you see something that requires the MC attention, report it" discussion we had?
I see your point about the post with the benchmark being deleted (not necessary IMHO) but...there's still LULZ to be had and LUL we shall, mate!!
Don't rage quit on me, man!!! You are better than this...
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Its not a rage quit, it's simply a case of lost heart in the system. It doesn't work, ot gets all the 10 posters, then the first thing that happens is the dev threads full up with questions pretty much unchecked. During my lurking it seems that ot has become the home for moderation and dev threads have been left to become a mess. The rom q&a threads (which is a good idea) aren't used and the actual dev threads fill up. I'm no developer but I have become an experienced abuser of the platform, searching for anything in a thread has become a complete nightmare, search for a solution to any problem and you end up faced with hundreds of questions all asking the same thing with hundreds of different answers. OK so the gtfo and go use the search may have come across as harsh but it did force people to search(me included, I asked a fair few stupid questions) it was the harshness that forced me to learn how to use the search effectively, that effectiveness has been eroded. I know this has become a 'family friendly' forum but with the average age of people wanting to mod their devices getting lower at an alarming rate it seems that "give me nao" attitude of today's youth is being pandered to.
I came here to rid myself of sense on the saga, I found a community of people that helped by making me do, great conversation and friendship. It was an escape from the "give me nao" I have all day at work and that attitude is something I spend hours confronting and helping people do themselves. This is what xda was to me, now it's just a "ok I'll do all your searching for you and link you to the post 2 above yours".
Rage.... No, certainly not my friend.
(think I found one of your accounts on g+ and added it)
“Power brings a man many luxuries, but a clean pair of hands is seldom among them.”
― Robert Harris

Ok,
I've seen the back and forth in this thread.
Now I used to be an off topic denizen, as well as the Market Place when it existed. I know exactly how it was moderated and what it "used to be like."
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
You might take a step back and look to see if it's not XDA that's changed so much, but maybe you have too. Now I started this thread originally, because I thought it would be humorous collection of moderation rants and closes, and I wanted to contribute to the OT section of XDA.
Now I contribute as a moderator.
You've listed the reasons why you come to XDA and OT, but what do you contribute to the community? This IS a ragequit and honestly it's a poor way to deal with things. You need to use communication to handle the issues you feel are present instead of this big dramatic reasoning for leaving.
If you are going to leave, then I guess you gotta leave. There is no one person bigger than XDA.
But instead of being upset that about what XDA isn't doing for you, you might consider how you can contribute even more to the community, and try to actually get in communication with the moderating crew, you might be surprised how approachable they are.
I am saying this not as a moderator (this is not even my section), but as an XDA community member.
I would challenge you to take more responsibility in this community, and not observe the happenings around you and decide on an apathetic exit.
You are always welcome to give new ideas, to open up Q&A threads, to help out in so many ways, but just saying "the system doesn't work" and taking your ball and going home doesn't really help, does it?
There have always been "give me answers now" people on this site and there will always be, it is up to the community as a whole to make this about personal responsibility, and if you've given up the good fight, then we will continue anyways.
The choice, however, is always yours.
If you are not going to update this thread anymore, I can have someone transfer it back to me, but I'd rather you continue if you're up for it.

orangekid said:
I know the current people who moderate this section now, and honestly they deserve more respect than this. They are not here to make YOUR life hard, or to "ruin the fun," but to get moderation done just like any other section. Moderating is thankless job, and the one thing you do that someone doesn't agree with you get to hear about in posts like these.
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This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike

flastnoles11 said:
This made me laugh and cringe at the same time... There are maybe 3 mods in OT that deserve respect, the rest, not so much. I was raised you have to give respect to get respect and most give none so they get none in return. They won't be named because I'll undoubtedly be banned again for it.
Being a mod is a power position that many mods take advantage of, if you disagree just look at some of the posts linked in this very thread, they do the exact things that they have infracted and banned other users for! Trolling threads (in many cases unlocking a locked thread to do so) with senseless memes and degrading members with their replies in some cases, that behavior doesn't deserve respect at all. Being a mod some of you should really learn to lead by example and stop setting bad examples for other members. If you wouldn't want a "regular" member to do it, as a mod you definitely shouldn't be doing it... Not aimed at you Orangekid, just a general statement to all mods alike
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I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

orangekid said:
I understand completely.
I think we're on different sides of the fence on some of this. The bottom line is I know how the moderation game works and these guys bust their butts to make this the best place for mobile development, period.
Regardless, they are all open to communication and the MC is ALWAYS open as well.
At the end of the day we need to come together as a community.
It seems to be doing little good to go on and on about it here though honestly (me included), the most benefit would be to PM an MC member on this matter.
They will always listen, and you can take that to the bank.
But public ragequit does not resolve it.
That's the last I'll say on the matter, my inbox is always open too.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there

Guys, OT is getting the same attention as the other forums we moderate. We don't go checking every new post, though, which is why reports are important... Obviously, if we get a report we tend to keep an eye on the thread for a bit, which isn't very hard to do with notifications.
The point is: OT is not special. Really. It gets the same amount of attention as other forums and despite what you may think, we mostly rely on reports.
If you feel an issue you've reported hasn't been resolved, then please contact the moderator who took it. It might not require an action for some reason, or it might be still an open issue... So contact the acting mod and you'll get an explanation.
Similarly, if you have an issue with a particular mod, contact him and let him know about it, politely. If you think that's of no use, there's the moderator committee as well.
Also, about the spamming of memes: we haven't been doing that as of late. It was mostly done to give some lulz for all parties involved, but you didn't like it and we did listen.

flastnoles11 said:
I her what you're saying, I mod on a pretty big sports forum (over 2 million members now I believe) so I get what it takes, but when mods do one thing and then ban a member for that exact same thing it makes the mods in general look pretty immature and frankly, dumb...
It would be great if everybody could come together, but until some of the mods change their "I'm right about everything, you're wrong because I'm a mod" attitude is not going to happen.
I think the biggest point people are trying to make about the OT situation as a whole is that in OT, a post doesn't even have to be reported and within the hour it's gone, where as in dev threads you can report posts and they'll still be there days later. If a little more of that attention was spent on the parts of the site THAT ACTUALLY MATTER, there would be less of this going on...
This is the only forum I've ever been a part of where there is more mod attention in an OT section than in parts of the forum that actually pertain to the existence of the site in the first place.... Not saying ot shouldn't be modded the way it is, but the rest of the site should have those same standards and no matter what any mod says, it simply isn't.
Mods should also be held to a higher standard and when they're allowed to troll threads with memes while other users get infractions for the same behavior something is horribly wrong there
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Click to collapse
Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*

9
vanessaem said:
Lol...what are you talking about? What mod is doing something that's worth a ban?
I'm sorry to break it to you but we have way too many forums to cover to focus all of our attention here. Please come out of the OT forum every once in a while and you will see that moderating goes on elsewhere. Like I posted on another thread, OT gets away with a lot more than any other forum. So much so that some come from other forums and feel this is the place in which to break the rules and do whatever they feel like. I hope we all know that this isn't how it's supposed to be.
Ok no more memes and trolling from mods but I'm pretty sure that won't make anyone happy either. *Sigh*
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I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*

flastnoles11 said:
9
I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.

vanessaem said:
Ok I've done the very same thing somewhere. No one can seem to find that many posts of mine funny or trollish enough to post in this thread but somehow you found some examples...ok. Anyway, we seem to be going around in circles here. The mods are out to get you, some feel victimized, the mods are the enemy except a chosen few, xda is going down the tubes because moderators are moderating, circles and ponies.
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Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..

flastnoles11 said:
9
I'm very rarely in off-topic... And I didn't say it was worthy of a ban, but it is actions that others have been infracted and even banned for so...
And very good, though I seriously doubt the immaturity in some will allow them to not troll threads and post dumb memes while telling others to not do the same... Lol, double standards at its finest... Should be one set of rules for all, but sadly it's not... I believe you even posted in another thread today that members shouldn't troll threads and post the ib4l posts and post their memes but I've seen you do that very thing (examples can be found in this very thread)
Seems to me the mods need an overhaul if most of you believe that you can do what you tell others not to do. I don't really care what you all do, like I said, I'm rarely ever in ot anymore, I much prefer to stick to my device forum where some lighthearted trolling doesn't earn you a vacation, where the mod doesn't tell you not to do something and then turn around and do that very thing.
If regular users shouldn't be doing it, mods definitely shouldn't be doing it don't you think? (that's a rhetorical question by the way, no answer required because we ask know the answer don't we) *sigh*
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You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members

flastnoles11 said:
Again nobody said anything like that, but it doesn't surprise me that you would twist everything to better suit you...
And don't act like you've never posted memes into threads (following the moderator crowd as to not feel left out I'm sure) I've seen it just like many others have, you're not the lone mod in ot that doesn't do it... Just because you're not funny enough to make this thread doesn't mean you haven't done it..
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Such anger. Too bad. So I posted a meme a few times. BTW...I never said anyone shouldn't post memes.
Oh boy...

mark manning said:
You are correct. There have been times when we ask members to not do something and then went ahead and did it ourselves. That isn't really leading by example and we have listened to that complaint. It recently has been brought up with in our team chat and we listened to the complaint. We will no longer be spamming threads with memes. The only reason we really did it in the first place was at the request of others.
With that being said I am glad you brought this up. It is a perfect example of how if you all feel that something is out of place you guys can come to us. You didn't like us doing something that you guys were told not to do (even if it was at the request of others) and we agreed with the statement and listened to you all changing our ways. I know some of you have an unfavorable view of me, but please understand I always try to stay impartial and if any of you ever bring an issue to my attention I will do whatever is in my power to address it properly. So will the others in my team. If they don't, feel free to report the PM or contact our team leader @crachel as well.
As the others have said, from a team standpoint, the OT forum is nothing more than a very minor blimp on our radar. We have 70 other forums each with their own set of issues to deal with. To us, ot is nothing more than a forum on the list of forums we moderate. We really do not see it has any different than any other forum on XDA.
So I will ask that you please bring us any complaints you guys have before it builds up and explodes. Once people reach the point of no return generally there is no fixing the situation. It is something like that we would like to avoid and I assume so would you all. Us mods are truly here for you guys and we all know we wouldn't have xda without the members
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Thank you for at least standing up and admitting to it instead of back pedaling like the other that decided to reply with a condescending, I'm better than you, attitude. (the exact thing I was talking about so it really got a good chuckle out of me) me and you have had words in the past, but you just earned some respect with your reply.
I honestly think it would make a difference if users didn't see mods do the exact thing they tell others not to do, maybe not much, but I believe it'll make a difference. I understand that being a mod is not a perfect science and mistakes will be made (being a mod elsewhere I know it's not the easiest thing sometimes), but honestly one of the biggest mistakes a mod can make is being above the rules they are supposed to enforce, one of them was being broken by mods regularly, seeing that change is a step in the right direction imo

Q: why was it permissible to bully atl4ntis off XDA?

Q: why was it permissible to bully atl4ntis off XDA? Did the lesser devs have that much pull?

huh?
i dont think that something like that is permissable. ive been "bullied" by devs before, and ignored it or fought it off, and xda does not like that sort of stuff at all, from experience. and is very against it! especially if its in public view.

I moved to stock after atlantis left. It is tough now. But I think is was about an argument concerning policy xda have for open vs closed source. maybe I am wrong but it is a lost in terms of community.

In b4 the lock.

hormosapiens said:
I moved to stock after atlantis left. It is tough now. But I think is was about an argument concerning policy xda have for open vs closed source. maybe I am wrong but it is a lost in terms of community.
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He wasn't open sourced which is his right by xda policy even. Other devs made accusations they couldn't back up and harassed and attacked. Google+ has the details and it was terribly ugly before the sanitation "fixed things". That will happen soon enough here too. I never cause trouble here but felt the need to say something. Cataclysm was the best thing to come to Android ever, in my honest opinion.

Locoman_ said:
He wasn't open sourced which is his right by xda policy even. Other devs made accusations they couldn't back up and harassed and attacked.
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The fact is that the development of the unique 'cata-mod' has come to an end caused by a formality. The moderators concerned should be ashamed.

He was not bullied in any way. IT was brought to our attention that the rom should not have been in OD, so we looked at it and it was moved. The so called bullied dev decided to throw a temper tantrum and quite. It was his choice.
Now as stated he had the right to close his source completely, But when questions come up about Original work to be placed in OD the Dev is required to provide the code to prove it is Orignal development. As it was closed sourced and he refused then there was no way to prove it.
So before people start to judge. You might want to sit back and understand you know very little of the whole story.
Normally we dont bother responding to threads like this but to be honest I am sick of hearing about this. Had any of you followed the rules you would see that all the threads about this are closed. Yet here we are.
Thread closed.

Lack of support/responses

I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.

Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....

KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.

KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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Click to collapse
Seriously? Talk about a lame solution.

jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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I agree 100%. :good::good::good::good::good:

jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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Click to collapse
I'm sorry you feel this way I was just offering a solution to help you with your issue but you know I do understand because I had the same thought at first but I think it is pretty cool to have real time discussion.....
Also our device is not limited to just this thread..... I spend my day switching ROMs with trebel based GSI....Oh and they get updated security every month and using our device all of the moto gestures show up in the rom because we still use the moto vender..... And if you really want to see some development start reading about compiling kernels..right now Im building a custom kernel for device.....

pastorbob62 said:
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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Click to collapse
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious

Lupask said:
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
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Click to collapse
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.

The problem is that too many users don't even know what they're doing. They do not want to acquire knowledge themselves and expect a solution and an explanation for everything.
By now I say to many users here they should inform themselves. This forum can provide help with problems, but cannot explain everything to everyone. The most common questions here are "I have a bootloop", "what does
encryption mean and why I'm not able to access my data", "why TWRP should only be booted and why does flashing to recovery fail", "should I install TWRP again after I updated my device" and so on... There is currently a user who is trying to mount TWRP in Windows and tells me at the same time that he has already rooted various devices.
Somewhere in between is a single user of 20 with a real problem but he doesn't get noticed.

pastorbob62 said:
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
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But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.

Lupask said:
But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
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Agree 100%. That is basically what my post is trying to address.
Lupask said:
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
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Good heavens no! If you look at my history and go back the 7 years I have been here, you would find that I have been and will remain very active in helping others and solving my own problems. I have taken part in Alpha and Beta testing for developers. Have I gotten lazy on occasion and asked before searching? Sure. Who hasn't? But that is most definitely not my standard mode of operation. I make it a habit to search and research as much as possible before I ask.
Lupask said:
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
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I agree, unless you are dealing with issues brought on by unlocking, rooting and installing custom software/roms. Go to Motorola and ask a question about those issues and you will get shut down immediately. "Sorry! Your warranty is void and we can't help you. And many users (like myself) buy models not available in the USA so there is no support from Motorola at the get go.
That is the whole purpose of XDA. Community support and development. Granted, there are those who will abuse it and not make any effort whatsoever to find the answer and fix it themselves. They deserve to be ignored. But if you put a mod or rom or app on here then by golly, at least support it.
I believe we are pretty much on the same page just took a couple of exchanges to get here. :good:

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---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.

because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA.
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You judged and found out you were wrong.
But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered.
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How much exactly did you pay that made you entitled to this kind of support?
But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
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You do not really have to say anything but forums are there for anyone to speak his mind. Even people who think they are entitled to stuff they actually aren't
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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Lack of respect. REALLY?
Get off your high horse!
Your post itself is a reflection of another trend:
Unfounded entitlement.