Related
First off let me say this isnt my style, I am not one for airing anyones business. I wanted to keep the matter private and handle it behind the scenes so that this small issue didnt turn in to an all out war. As you can see this is exactly what happened.
I am only doing this because i want to clear the air for everyone involved, you all got worked up over nothing really. I will give you a very brief explanation of what happened, and i will not name any names.
With that being said, i first want to make an apology to the 2 devs involved:
Bananacakes, i think that i might not have stated my case very well with you, and based on your posts i feel that there might have been a language barrier and you may have taken what i said out of context. All i ever wanted was for you to talk to me about the issue so i could get your side of the story and make a determination.
WildChild, im sorry that i did not delete BC's rant with everyone elses. I didnt mean to make you look like an a$$. I wanted to give BC a voice on the matter but i didnt want to censor him completely. And in hindsight i may have damaged your name. Was not my intention, and i feel bad that it happened.
In this open community it is acceptable to share and borrow from others but its common courtesy to give the other dev credit for their work.
***********
A brief summary of what happened:
A MEMBER of the community (not one of the devs involved) brought to me an issue of similarities between 2 dev's. provided some screen shots and asked me to investigate the matter, as it APPEARED to be a Kanging issue (to get the story straight, it was MORE than just a so called script). So i contacted both devs involved, one was very cooperative and the other never contacted me. I waited 5 days before i took the next step at contacting the dev and this is where it all turned really ugly and public.
***********
Now, in this issue there has been numerous attacks on each others and some very ugly things said. Im willing to overlook all of those at this moment as i know a lot of you were upset. Loosing 2 dev's is a serious matter when we dont have that many to begin with. If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Now quick, everyone, group hug!
I am going to leave it open for in case anyone wants to comment or beg either dev to come back. But the instant that someone gets negative toward either dev (i dont care if you talk bad about me, lol) i will lock this from comments.
I had this as a sticky, but in reality there isnt much going on in here right now, so really there is no need. I will only sticky if it starts to fall towards the bottom.
Please come back WC , WE MISS YOU
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing has been proved at this point. And the HoliRaider thread is being looked at by pstevep.
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am waiting to talk to bananacakes before any decisions are made. I'm hoping we can work all of this out in a friendly non confrontational way.
I will post here any updates.
Thanks everyone for cooperating.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
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Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Crimson Ghoul said:
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
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Click to collapse
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
haggardh said:
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
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Click to collapse
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
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Click to collapse
Only Bananacakes and Wild Child were constantly updating their roms though... that's what I meant
I have been edited because i cant follow directions.
shogunmark said:
If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
come at me bro said:
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am the only mod involved with this. But to answer your question, no i am not currently a dev.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real... finally, a voice of reason. I mean, common sense. Okay so everyone has something to be bitter about. But how will that get anyone anywhere?
Walking away from a problem is NEVER the solution. At least Pirate and vhjc are still here, or so it seems.
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have never noticed that. Now that I think about it Some things do stick out. Well Thank you. I just saw where hes from. That being said its a different culture between the two. So in each others eyes they were right, and the other wrong.
So I hope neither of them are the stubborn type and decide to work things out.
GSLEON3 nailed it!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes and yes.
GSLEON3 said:
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have decided to teach myself the trades of development on the android system. Need to put my AAS degree to the test
Sent from my HTC Vivid
This is gonna be a book post, so grab a drink, sit down & READ THE WHOLE THING!
Okay, I was a happily retired moderator with little time for babysitting & hand holding, but after nearly two decades of being involved with mobile development from Palm to the device & OS that really started this (Blue Angel PPC2002/PPC2003/PPC2003SE) I will be damned if I am going to let ANYONE ruin the major development repository for what is arguably the best device HTC has made to date. Yes, it was also the worst marketed & whomever handled the marketing plan for the Holiday Series should be selling used cars (Not that there's anything wrong with that, they were just obviously out of their league with the Vivid), however I digress.
I cook roms, I tweak things & talk & have help fix issues for more chef's than I can count. I don't do public releases & I stopped doing custom builds for Senior Members a long time ago. I am here purely for the advancement of mobile development, to learn & to help those that truly take the time to learn.
First things first, this is a development thread. If you are not a developer (I'm not, not really) you must realize that we are working with Alpha's, Beta's & sometime code & data from completely different device manufacturers. This means that there is a certain amount of inherent risk envolved, ALWAYS. This is evidenced & acknowledged by every single person that DECIDED to ignore the warnings issued by HTC as well as the developers here & agreed to the terms when they unlocked their device. "Unlocking your device is DANGEROUS & may VOID your warranty."
I own several devices, as do the former Dev's of this sub-forum. The reason we all are, or were, here is because we all agreed that despite HTC's fumble with the device, it is a fresh design from the rubberized slabs & plastic toys we've seen lately & the device is truly a powerhouse when configured correctly. None of us have to develop, not for the public, and for those that do, I can tell you it's not for the money nor the fame. If it was for fame the folks that left wouldn't be working from blog space & small sites. Sure, there are always glory hounds, but the Developers in Vivid are about the pursuit of perfection, nothing more. Roms are not made by a single person, many have a hand in adding or modifying portions of a rom. This means that when you slam or disrespect a chef or rom, you are telling six or more people that you do not appreciate their work. There will always be difference of opinion, but when that occurs, I expect you to handle it like a man (or woman) & use the Personal Message system this site offers. Even in those cases, I demand no less than respect & civility when communicating & you all agreed to that when you registered here at XDA. Failure to do so CAN & WILL BE GROUNDS FOR A BAN OF APPROPRIATE LENGTH.
Now, I am not a new Mod & XDA has seen fit to call me back to active duty as a Global Moderator, not a forum moderator, & that alone should tell you how frelled the vivid section has become. I am not here to power trip, don't want to ban anyone & hate cleaning useless posts from threads. But I have agreed to do just that until we can all become a happy family
I am working on getting all the dev's back here that left as well as getting some support from some of the more populated forum threads. This will be more & more important as fragmentation goes away & Android becomes more unified. ICS is a step in that direction, Android 5.0 will almost be there completely.
You may not know it yet, but HTC knows they built a great device in the Holiday line & we have already seen ICS release roms for the US AT&T variant. They went & integrated beats & discussion is taking place about a possible Sense 4.0 version for the Holiday. Not a kanged version, but a true to goodness OEM complete with source code & all. While most other devices are still working with leaked versions & test betas, we have an honest to goodness Release version of ICS with some already even getting OTA updates as well. The Vivid is one of a handful of devices that can more than adequately run the same software versions as the newly unveiled One Series, only the Vivid doesn't look like a Sensation mated with a Flyer. I know most of the developers that left, some more than others & I am working on bringing them back to the XDA table. You see, when a developer leaves we get fragmentation. We also usually lose a lot of work from other rom team members, themers, coders, tweakers, hackers, kernel builders, etc...
It would be rather simple for a good Sensation developer to get us a great recovery, provide us with pointers on things they have found with getting ICS to run smoothly as they have been working with api 15 for longer than most Vivid dev's. Unfortunately, they see the Vivid forum as the red headed bastard stepchild of XDA & right now we are. Winter is over & never before have I seen so many developers fky away like a flock heading back north. They all left or are on the fence about leaving. That says something. It's not one high maintenance chef whining & leaving. It is a whole group of Dev's & the supporting members from all over the world leaving. That tells me something is broken, seriously broken & that you as Vivid forum participants have failed the developers & the community. We are broken & need to fix ourselves & learn to police ourselves to become whole again. Do you like stock roms? are you 100% satisfied with whomevers rom you are using? I hope the answer is yes, because unless we pull together & make changes you are gonna be stuck with what you have. Sure, more cooks will emerge. But every rom team member is exceptional at certain things & without them future roms will be lacking in certain areas.
At any rate I digress. Many of you know me. I am honest & fair. I am here, & XDA agreed, as a Hail Mary, to properly support the forum & to try a save the Vivid section from failing. The number one rule here from now on is: Be courteous, respectful & honorable; and if you can't do that....I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance & furious anger those who would attempt to poison our developers & destroy my forum.
THIS IS YOUR WARNING: I am an American, so Baseball is my countries pastime, right? Just like baseball I am immediately instituting a three strikes policy. Each strike will incur penalty on a progressive scale ending with me petitioning to permanently ban you if needed. And be advise that if you post useless or negative to development threads, expect them to be deleted. Just be smart & always take a minute to think things thru before posting & doing irreparable damage. Words are like currency, you can always save them & they'll be there later if needed, but let them burn a hole in your pocket & spend them to soon...You're broke & there's no getting them back.
Now I am stickying this thread & will be leaving it open for a short while. I am doing this to give you a chance to kindly ask the dev's that left to come back & where appropriate make amends or apologize for any personal attacks that were made publicly. If you wrote it where everyone could read it, you should have the fortitude to make it right publicly. If not, then I again refer you to the Personal Message utility provided to you by XDA.
Nicely written.
+1 on bringing back the Devs
Please come back This forum wouldn't be anywhere near as inventive and informative if we didn't have our devs.
Excellent post as well
Im glad to see you stepping in and trying to help the other mods get a handle on things.
I love our phone just like most of the other users here, and have been dissapointed with the state of our forum for the last few weeks. I know the dev who left are still interested in our device as they took their roms elsewhere. Maybe with these current event they will consider coming back. We can only hope, XDA has been a great repository of roms and the help we might need with them. Lets not fragment our resources anymore then it already is.
All I can say is WOW that was greatly written!!
You know what really sucks I have been a member for what i consider to be a long time, I have flashed 1000s of rom's on I don't how many phones and read probably millions of posts! This site is my addiction I read it every day. And over the last couple of months it has just gotten horrible, ridiculous and childish on both sides the noobs and the Dev's! Now DONT GET ME WRONG!! I love and admire everyone who develops, cooks and contributes to the forum. I admit I could never deal with all crap that some noobs and some not so noobs! It is not only this forum it seems to be wide spread even down to the scamming going on at the market place!!! It has honestly made me not want to come to XDA which really sucks.I have all ways looked at XDA as one of the best community's/families i have ever worked with. Just think about how many country's, languages,class,s of life white collar,blue collar and every where in between!!! Just like any family/community you have problems and you find way's to work through the hard times and it makes you stronger so I just plead to all the Developers to try to work whit us. Even if you just post your work and then just have a question and answer sec. and let the community answer the questions. Im just saying there has to be a solution!!
Okay I'm done Rambling!! Thank You to the Mods to for trying to hold it all together!! OK now i'm done!
Wow, it's good to hear something positive around here. You might this sections savoir.
WOW! Great post, thank you very much!
I think we ALL want to run the latest and greatest Android version on the best possible ROM ever on our beloved Holiday. Most are anxious about it and, at the same time, do not want to brick their expensive phones. This being said, this shouldn't be a motivation for ANYONE to bash on the developers.
Like a lot of people, I bought my HTC Raider knowing that, at that time, the development wasn't too far. I was glad to see dev's coming in the Raider/Vivid/Holiday/Velocity family. I was friggin' happy when I saw the first ROM available for my phone! I also flashed at my own risk, knowing I was maybe scarifying my $600 CAD phone.
I, as a relatively new comer, learned from it: do not ask questions that you can easily find answers for by searching the forum. While this is not the (only) reason why so many devs have left, I would like to apologize for my few n00b questions that I may have asked previously. I learned from it and will now properly search before asking.
PLEASE, let's put these few problems aside and let's be a big nice community once again!
I hope we'll see devs back here once again!
This is my first HTC since buying my HTC Dream back in the infancy of android and I was saddened to see how things have turned on this board.
For every Samsung and LG device I have owned there has always been a thriving community of people who have an understanding and work together. However none have ever had the same feeling when I owned an HTC and was part of the community that made the Dream(G1) what it is, an icon. I so wish to be apart of something like that again with this, arguably the best HTC device, as GSLEON3 put it and would love to make it the next big thing.
I understand if the Devs don't come back but I certainly hope they do. There is a lot of work for us to get done and we really need all the amazing talented individuals we can get.
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
come at me bro said:
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
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Click to collapse
I think That that should become our mission statement "a place where everyone can AND SHOULD contribute in one way or another"
This is nice,
well said GSLEON3, i'm happy to see this.
i've been around xda for a while and had my share of phones and not a single one wasn't modified in a way shape or form from xda so when i picked up a vivid 2 weeks ago, it was my first choice but i'm stuck with at&t for now and besides the inspire 4g it's the only other decent phone that fits my needs and wants and regardless of how heavy it is, it's worth it. I was so disappointed and sad, mainly so sad when i saw what was happening, and by tuesday night i was like this isn't gona work for me, i'm gona be stuck with the stock gb rom or stock ics which i can't stand, i just wanted a fully functioning runnymed port but i was disappointed that the bootloader can only be unlocked through htcdev which then voids my warranty while i didn't have that issue with all the previous phones so i never hesitated to root, flash recovery and the roms of my choice. titanium and nandroid backups were like my best non human friends lol. when all this started happening and pretty much everyone was gone, i was like this isn't gona work, saw a report in the portal for a sense port to the nexus s one for ics and one for gb that had almost everything working, so i figured let me see how much i can buy a nexus s for and found a really good deal so i bought it the next day and put my vivid up for sale, i havent sold it yet, and i've been coming around to see if anything has changed, and now that it has i might reconsider and keep it, sell the nexus s and hopefully things get rolling again and we can all have the vivid the way we want. so sorry for making this even longer than i anticipated but hopefully the devs will see this and do come back, and that we do get help from other devs and new ones, i mean having phones like the hd2, mytouch 4g inspire 4g, sensation, the forums on those are filled, even the nexus s i can't keep or find a rom that i like, there r just so many options left and right so i hope that the vivid will become like that soon and yeah i dunno call me crazy or something but like i said earlier, i would be very happy if bootloader can be unlocked without htcdev that is relockable with no trace and to have a fully working gb rom with sense 3.5 like the runnymed, i couldn't be happier with the phone like that. I know there is the holiraider and it looks pretty good but i just don't know if i'm ready to take the plunge for just 1 potential rom, so hope all goes well and things develop but this has so much potential so i think i'm gona hold on to the vivid for now and see this thing come back to normal and flourish
Thank you for the breath of fresh air of logic that has come back to this forum. Sadly, I have been hesitant to visit this forum because of all the drama that has occurred as of late about the development of a better rom for our devices.
As you said, there is a reason we all purchased this device over others and it's well clear that there needs to be more work done for it by those who have the skills to do so.
Well said, although this may have been posted a little to late.
I hope that the dev here does continue, but it is looking bleak!
thanks
Very nice write up / read, I'm new to XDA and android altogether. I think this a great device and the few ROMS I've flashed had little or no issues. The work the DEV's have put into these is incredible to say the least. I would love to see all this mess cleared and bring the Vivid development back on track to unleash the full potential that it really possesses.
..
Thank you for this post. I've been more of a xda lurker for the longest time (on other phone forums) and I was happy to be getting in on the sort of ground floor of development for the vivid.. I walked away for a month to take care of some life items and I came back hoping to see some big improvements, instead there is just a load of closed dev threads. It's sad to see that few people not acting civil put things where we are today.
I really hope you can help bring some sanity back to this sector and with that sanity maybe some of the devs will be back too.
superb article. thanks for the great post. something needed to be said!i would imagine that with 4,000,000+ users were gonna have trolls, so i hope the trolls migrate to your post
Thank You!
There is yet hope, Also as stated by the OP, We all did agree to treating people with respect. This is a huge community with all levels of users from Devs and folks that build awesome things to others just starting out with their 1st smartphone (Simple rule, think before you post). This device line could become great. Please let's all do what we can to help this along.
Cheers
BR
Excellent post, I appreciate the time you took to write it, I wish reading it were a requirement of joining the XDA site. I've been flashing roms since I had an HTC Touch Diamond. I confess to being a flashaholic and my worst fear is to lose access to XDA and it's excellent developers because of the rude and immature members that I see regularly. So many don't bother to read and feel they are entitled to the work that the devs do for free.
All I can say is this is awesome, nice to see someone taking the time to help the vivid dev section.
I so miss the help and work by Pirateghost and Wild Child, and whom ever else was contributing.
While i left for only 2 weeks to setup another phone to use, i still have my raider ready and free to help debug and test as needed. Please don't allow a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us.
And if I may, maybe we as xda members can share in the task of keeping the forum in check.
EX: see an inappropriate post, flag it for a moderator to address it.
As for GSLEON3, thanks for taking the time to address the forum. hats off to you.
I for one, am extremely disappointed in regard to the fact that the devs behind PSX (Pure Speed eXperiment ROM) have left XDA and are going private. If you wish to see exactly why, head over to the now closed thread in OAD, but basically they've resorted to deserting their presence in the Nexus 5 forums due to disrespect put forth by us, the users.
This is a significant wake up call for our community. Now obviously not all of us have been disrespectful, at least the mature majority of us. But, there are many people who have, will continue to be to not only these developers but to all of them.
I'd like to remind those select people of why you are WRONG in every sense of the word by being disrespectful in any matter towards these wonderful developers here at XDA and beyond.
They share *FREE* software that they have spent HOURS upon HOURS on developing not only for themselves but for everyone at absolutely no cost.
Obviously some may provide opportunities to donate monetarily but 99% of the time this is optional.
(Although I do encourage donating and buying their paid apps)
To be ungrateful and simply acting like a whiny brat towards them is unacceptable!
If you experience any bugs, quirks, or anything you don't like in their software; go about reporting these things in a respectful, mature manner in their respective threads, or by PM.
If you can't do that, then simply do not use their software and revert back to stock! It's that simple.
So to end off, thank you Team Speed for your wonderful ROM and kernel that you have provided and will continue to provide to your core user base privately. You all will be missed dearly here on good ol' XDA. And to every other developer, do know that many of us appreciate your hard work, do not be discouraged and please continue to provide your awesome ROMs, kernels, themes, mods, apps and so on.
-Anthony
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Actually for a thread that encouraged off topic discussion their thread was pretty good, people mostly talking about whatever and it seemed pretty happy. I would see people ask about features, but they weren't demanding anything there. The last few pages were of people not wanting the ROM to go, and people donating money...which looks a little suspect since they made an announcement of leaving and left the thread open for a while.
If you really can't live without that ROM try using Purity and you'll be fine.
Smatter, u getty no invitey?
Personally, I think the whole deal says more about the people who left, not the people here.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
^this! For now Purity works for me... plenty of awesome N5 roms!
lol devs do this all the time until they figure out people aren't downloading there shiz then they "surprise" everyone with a return and use it as a threat... basic psychology
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
They'll be back sooner or later... else their stuff will become extinct
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Hehe. No idea what happened but Op is right. You guys are self entitled jerks.
You guys act like devs are magical fairies who seize to exist if no one believes in them...or in this case, downloads their roms.
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
Could someone link the offending posts from that thread. I can't really find any.
nyyankees1237 said:
They share *FREE* software that they have spent HOURS upon HOURS on developing not only for themselves but for everyone at absolutely no cost.
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I'm not going to pretend every dev here works altruistically, that their work isn't documented and categorized into a work portfolio for future employment opportunities. I can write up a very persuasive essay showing how the devs should be grateful that they're gaining access to free tools and a free test bed to sharpen their skills: whereas in other industries, would cost a lot to even put it through trials. But that's not the point there. The point is that these people(devs) are opportunity-seekers that happen to have a goal that benefits us, the end-users where money doesn't have to exchange hands. Ask Steve Kondik what opportunities he was afforded as a result of his community-work.
These people definitely work hard and that alone deserve acknowledgement, but let's not pretend this was not a mutual business relationship. Do what one has to do in order to sooth the ethical side of this, but end of the day gains and losses all around. Where one team closes up shop, another one opens up to make a name for themselves. (Purity over PSX)
For the lost: the major discussion started here
Not to justify ignorance and rudeness, but the devs need the xda community as much as the xda community needs them. You really think that sharing a rom between friends will get the rom to a stable state anytime soon? Hell most of the roms shared on xda have thousands of users and they are still bugged...
If the dev wants his rom in a anywhere near useful state, then he needs the large pool or tests and bug reports that the whole xda community can provide, simple as that.
tylerdurden83 said:
Not to justify ignorance and rudeness, but the devs need the xda community as much as the xda community needs them. You really think that sharing a rom between friends will get the rom to a stable state anytime soon? Hell most of the roms shared on xda have thousands of users and they are still bugged...
If the dev wants his rom in a anywhere near useful state, then he needs the large pool or tests and bug reports that the whole xda community can provide, simple as that.
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lol.
finalhit said:
lol.
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Laugh all you want, but altho I haven't had the urge to develop a rom yet, I can tell you that this is exactly like it went when I was the lead developer of one of the most used world of warcraft addons. You get (at times) stupid questions by lazy people, rude comments, etc, but without the reach of the wide community that debugs stuff it'd have not gotten anywhere. Hell even Google, Apple etc release software full of bugs that us the more experienced users find out and report back to them for fixing, you really think that a handful of developers can do better?
tylerdurden83 said:
Laugh all you want, but altho I haven't had the urge to develop a rom yet, I can tell you that this is exactly like it went when I was the lead developer of one of the most used world of warcraft addons. You get (at times) stupid questions by lazy people, rude comments, etc, but without the reach of the wide community that debugs stuff it'd have not gotten anywhere. Hell even Google, Apple etc release software full of bugs that us the more experienced users find out and report back to them for fixing, you really think that a handful of developers can do better?
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I am also a software developer. And I get what you're saying. You need your tester base to represent your entire user base to account for. use cases you might not see because you don't use the software that way.
This is also true for Roms. And that's where your analogy breaks. The only reason a Dev would need the community to test his ROM is to ensure that the rom works for the use cases of the community.
If all a Dev wanted was to make the ROM work for himself only, then he can test the feature himself. You should probably know, an average user is not skilled enough to be a constructive tester. A Dev would have an easier time testing for bugs himself for features he does use rather than chasing false flags by unskilled users.
To sum up, the involvement of the community in the rom building process is a predicated on the devs desire to make the ROM work for everyone. It is not a service everyone provides to the Dev.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
finalhit said:
This is also true for Roms. And that's where your analogy breaks. The only reason a Dev would need the community to test his ROM is to ensure that the rom works for the use cases of the community.
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If you look at rom like Purity (on gnex I've been using it since forever), 99% of the changelog bug fixes were reported by users, not the author himself. Whether those were bugs on features that the author wasn't using at the time, or didnt have enough time to debug himself, cause afterall this is a "night job", etc, etc is irrelevant really. In the end the author himself will benefit from a more stable, less battery draining, filled with more features that his users came up with, whatever, rom.
tylerdurden83 said:
If you look at rom like Purity (on gnex I've been using it since forever), 99% of the changelog bug fixes were reported by users, not the author himself. Whether those were bugs on features that the author wasn't using at the time, or didnt have enough time to debug himself, cause afterall this is a "night job", etc, etc is irrelevant really. In the end the author himself will benefit from a more stable, less battery draining, whatever rom.
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Its not irrelevant. It is exactly my point.
A weed is any plant that you don't want in your garden. If 99 percent of fixes in that ROM is user reported, it means the Dev was nice enough to go to those users' gardens and pull out their weed for them.
If a Dev doesn't have that plant in his garden, then classifying it as a weed or not is moot to the Dev. (This is a very apt methaphor but I can sense I'm explaining it poorly)
Any bugs the Dev didn't know about, its because its not pertinent to their use case. So they're doing the community a favor by fixing bugs that doesn't really matter to them, not the other way around.
If all a Dev wanted to do was to create a garden with only the plants he likes, then that's something he can do all on his own. The fact that a Dev would invite others to his garden, and take suggestions on which plants he should have is again a service he is providing to the community, not the other way around.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
finalhit said:
Any bugs the Dev didn't know about, its because its not pertinent to their use case. So they're doing the community a favor by fixing bugs that doesn't really matter to them, not the other way around.
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Some, but not all. If after release x.y the rom randomly exits out of loudspeaker it might mean that the author doesnt use loudspeaker ever, or simply that he didnt use it yet before another user did. It doesnt change the fact that maybe sooner or later he'll need to use it, and he'll be surely happier to be able to use it when that circumstance presents itself, rather than having an unknown bug preventing him.
Also sometimes bugs arent easy to reproduce so user input and data like logcats can speed up the resolution process a lot.
A ton of users are reporting and trying to pinpoint the battery drains in 4.4 xposed framework, I'm sure that the author will love his own phone's battery lasting longer.
tylerdurden83 said:
Some, but not all. If after release x.y the rom randomly exits out of loudspeaker it might mean that the author doesnt use loudspeaker ever, or simply that he didnt use it yet before another user did. It doesnt change the fact that maybe sooner or later he'll need to use it, and he'll be surely happier to be able to use it when that circumstance presents itself, rather than having an unknown bug preventing him.
Also sometimes bugs arent easy to reproduce so user input and data like logcats can speed up the resolution process a lot.
A ton of users are reporting and trying to pinpoint the battery drains in 4.4 xposed framework, I'm sure that the author will love his own phone's battery lasting longer.
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If the developer of that mod, Is having the same problems, I guarantee you he is the most able to diagnose that problem.
The most likely scenario of course it's that he's trying to pull weed out of someone else's garden.
Running logcats is not testing. At the end of the day. The devs logs cats are equally useful, and ultimately, the dev has to sift through those logs.
Would you ever hire an unskilled person to be your qa? That would be horrible. You're gonna basically tell the guy everything he needs to do to the point that you're better off ding it yourself.
The only reason a dev would need others logs is to help then pull out weeds from other people's gardens.
Time for me to sleep but for anyone to claim that devs equally need users for a free product that they are providing is a laughable statement.
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
If you claim that the xda devs require users to give them feedback and bug reports, how many of them are actually useful and does not sound something like "i flashed the ROM and it is very slow", "I get blablabla wakelocks" without any other details?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
This is why there are mods. Devs don't have to deal with the sh1t throwing. They'll live.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
abde27 said:
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
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I agree with you. If you frequent the forums. You can piece it together when you read bits in different forums. There's still some rom makers and cm13 is being cooked. But unless something changes I reckon in that next 3-4 months. Note 5 is going to become a waste land. Or *young devs* will remain. Nothing wrong with them but.. You know what I mean. Compared to devs that have always done this kind of thing. So I think it's going to dwindle slowly. And then just fade off. Specially when the note 6/other devices hit. Game over...... That's my bet
I totally agree, the issue is there are just so many variants for Samsung devices now its hard for the developers to keep up with every device. Back when I had the Note 3 there were only two variants whereas now there are more than 5 variants for the Note 5.
Even the amount of actual devices there are, there are just too many Samsung are releasing. Back in 2013 there were only 'flagship' devices being developed for as they were the only ones worth developing for, but now there are low-mid range devices that can have a lot of development potential.
If its going to be poor development like this for the Note 5 in the near future or even possibly the Note 6 I might just buy the next Nexus device. I had only bought the Note 5 as I had the Note 4,3 and 2 and the Note line-up was always more powerful than the regular flagship devices.
I've seen and heard complaints about the moderation teams, and I've seen many, many developers come and go on these forums. What most of you do not see is the reason that some of these "developers" leave badmouthing the moderators.
We have a very lenient set of rules here, yet many people feel the need to try to push the boundaries of them, some much more than others.
We have had "developers" leave because they got busted stealing others work, because they got busted trying to make money off of the users here, busted for trying to get users to buy them devices, computers, etc...
We've had our fair share of those who let the "fame" go to their heads and began believing they were above the rules.
And finally, what you don't see, is that we try to work with these people, for the community's sake, to correct the problems, long before they are reprimanded for their actions. In the end it comes down to these people not getting their way, so they take their ball and go home, all the while complaining about the big, bad moderators.
You can choose to believe what you wish, but believe me when I tell you that development is dying because the type of developers that you're seeing more and more of, truly don't care about the community unless you line their pockets or subjugate yourselves to their abuse.
Why do you not see a great majority of the above in the forums? We moderators clean it up so that the community thrives, because really, who wants to support a developer that belittles, berates and humiliates his supporters? Ask him that on whatever social media he's taken up to complain about how he was treated here...
Thank you. I am personally not against moderators. They save threads again and again when things get out of hand. Without moderators, XDA might not be here still.
All I'm asking for is some transparency. To see if a developer left because of moderators or because they themselves broke rules, or whatever the reason is. A device with a lot of development behind it doesn't need that type of transparency because if someone leaves, it doesn't hurt the overall community if there are others working on it. But in a small community like this, it's harder to swallow. If a developer leaves claiming that the moderation team forced them away then maybe the moderation team should give their side of the story so the community knows what's going on, and if there are people interested in developing for the device that they have a frame of reference of knowing what is acceptable here and what isn't.
I hope that makes sense. And I know being transparent isn't the easiest thing to do. But if people are seeing that moderators are being blamed when developers leave and moderators staying quiet, then what kind of message does that send?
There's a clear line between acceptable transparency and airing out other people's dirty laundry in a publicly visible space. It's easy to ask for transparency when someone else is at fault, but imagine being on the other side--transparency might not be the word you'd use to describe it. As far as what's acceptable and what's not, the forum rules are sufficiently clear. Stay within the bounds of that document and you'll have no trouble from the mods. Our goal is to make this a developer-friendly environment that encourages everyone to contribute.
I agree that there is a difference but we are looking at a device that is losing devs by the minute. I do not want to start a political revolution here, or change rules. I do not expect development for the Note5. I would like to see development, but I'm not expecting it. It's very heartbreaking seeing that this forum is mysteriously losing developers for a device not even a year old.
If anything, lets work together to create a place for development to flourish, just like the rules ask us to.
yeah seems like all the big devs are leaving and we left with roms updated from December. All threads are closed without any explanation. Kinda sad since the note 5 really needs more devs to develop. great device but if there's no support from devs. i will stay away from samsung for a while.
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
Lam pham said:
Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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I read his post where he explain something about problems with moderator(s) and I saw a strange phrase something like "developers need help from moderators" or something similar to it, but I don't understand WHAT help a moderator could give to the Dev.
More over I don't understand why a Dev could think to leave a community due to problems with moderator(s)....Moderators manage rules and I don't figure out how this could touch/ruins Dev's work.
All of this is strange for me.
At the end of the day, every closed thread here is closed because there was an issue revolving around kanging of people's work- that's where it STARTS...from there mods are forced to step in, and it's at this stage that SOMEONE will always feel they were done wrong- either thru uneducated assumptions on things like the GPL or apache licenses and what is or is not acceptable to document "credit given" and "permission" to maintain compliance with these licenses- or it's knowingly stolen...the mods start taking heat when they moderate with their emotions not their duty, take it from a guy just again logging in again after a ban issued in anger...only to find a ghost town...believe me when i say you'll never get transparency. I just read a mod basically call out uita in "whatever social circle he's in" and very tastelessly degrade him when he can't defend himself- at the end of the day this is the mod's sandbox- i can't even count now how many times I've seen MY statement repeated (take their ball and go home) by multiple mods who obviously read MY feelings on it all- but again, it's your sandbox boys...I've been told half a dozen times now that this is a private site, the mods don't owe us anything for explanations, nor will we get them (at least not truthful ones because no one will admit fault), and that none of this was even acceptable to discuss, not would it be, in public. my response was simply that public outcry would need to be answered eventually and here it is, inevitably, as i predicted. I stood for what i believed to be right, i got banned. Every mod told me i was wrong to even voice an opinion, and how dare that opinion contrast, it was against the rules, if i didn't agree then kick rocks and this 2 week ban will give me time to reflect. Well, that's the same attitude that pushed away a few devs, and even tekhd, apparently, cuz i come back and tekhd, evren, drketan, all have locked threads and are currently ceased development on xda...
Devs will come and go, that's the nature of the beast, but the Note 5 forums you currently see are the results of something else. I've always considered myself to be a rational person very open to hearing out another's side, but all i got was banned and told it ain't a democracy, shut up or get out and stay out. That was my honest experience. Fwiw...
Lam pham said:
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
haifish9999 said:
You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
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I hope it's not a case of " Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad". (As in Animal Farm story)
Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
The winter is coming .....
I've been banned myself for well over 3 weeks and I stopped the work I was doing for another phone. The mod thought it was ok to keep deleting my messages and close my thread so I can't say that all the mods are perfect and do the right thing.. Seems more like moderating from emotion or stress... I can understand why he left the community and for those that don't know that doing any type of dev work usually takes hours upon hours, weeks even months just to get something made perfectly and then a moderator bans him and basically made him feel worthless with all the time spent working on stuff.. You'd be mad too if this was done to yourself!!
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Rx8Driver said:
I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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Hi, feel free. Thanks for openly admitting you violated forum rules after the long post stating you were banned for 2 weeks for voicing your opinion. But at least you admitted it finally. I guess your statement that PM is PM, somehow means it is ok to lie to moderators then post how you got wronged..whatever.
As for everyone else in this thread concerned about reality and development...moderators want nothing but more development. We do not run off developers. And as stated we actually invest a lot of our volunteer time in PMs trying to work things out with developers. I have lots of developers that I talked out of leaving and they come to me with their issues...sometimes we can help them...sometimes we can't. In UITA's case. we couldn't because GPL rules over XDA rules. All kernel developers should know this when pulling code from any git. I have had many good conversations with UITA and he came to me often with issues. This time he came to me and asked about the ruling for kernels. I explained it to him and not even sure if he ever read it because he exploded at about the same time. I hope he takes this time to refresh and recharge and considers coming back after his "vacation." But that is up to him. I am here to work with him when he is ready to let him know the boundaries...the same boundaries that every one of the hundreds of kernel developers on XDA deal with.
The best thing to do might be to encourage UITA in PM to relax and work within the system and do what he does best. I can help him to ensure his credits are properly preserved in his commits and in threads. All he has to do is ask.
I will also add, YES i did in fact create an extra account. Plainly and openly...and it's here nor there because the root of the issue wasn't accounts...it was my opinion...creating an account to circumvent a ban is petty...at least when the ban is originally due to a difference of opinion and instead of working thru it whoever actually banned me decided to do that...
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---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------
If there's some other dirty laundry i got around here other than testing for devs and working on synapse profiles, and feedback on roms, and helping noobs find their way I'd love to see it...
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---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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And whoa whoa whoa...i never denied making that account. It's DroidPro35....i NEVER denied that, pm or not.
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---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------
Lastly, and I'm finished with it is i have every pm between myself and bajanman and between myself and JJD...I'll gladly post them all, i was angrier two weeks ago, but there's nothing in any of them leading up to my ban that wasn't plain and simple language describing what's been transgressing here...and say what you will about uita, yeah he's got a reputation for being harsh, but over the past few months he'd come a long way from when he and i first "met"...I'd say, for him, publicly at least he'd been on his best behavior and even gentle on the noobs and all...
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---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
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Did you mean here? Cuz i said DID....like not DIDNT...so like i did...and who cares if i admit it? The ban for that is already over...time served and all that...
Drop in, introduce yourself, post pictures, ask dumb questions, talk, tease, chill out.
In memory of the beloved RC, @simms22 .
We've needed a thread like this ever since everyone wanted to constantly complain and nitpick (iPhone this, jelly that, etc). Cool.
Yep.
Stressed out and back home after a day's work. Was looking for a thread like this and found none. Nexus forums have a lot of these. At least when I used to own Nexus.
So thought I'd go ahead and create one cos I know we've got a lot of users.
All the negativity around here made me second guess my purchase a little and didn't have a single problem with my phone ?
Great thread!
What roms are you guys using
TheDarkDefender said:
What roms are you guys using
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Staying stock for now. No need to root for me at the moment.
I'll probably jump on lineage for a bit when Android O is released.
Isn't android O released already?
sucilrimal said:
Isn't android O released already?
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Only preview build is out
TheDarkDefender said:
What roms are you guys using
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Stock for the foreseeable future. When I finally get to the point where I unlock, I'll probably be on an OOS based ROM. OOS is just so good. Plus it'll probably take awhile for aftermarket ROMs to get the dual camera working 100%.
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Should be getting my device today and I am excited. First OnePlus deviice. Hopefully no issues for me, fingers crossed. Used to be a heavy Android user, lately iPhone user. Making the decision to become a programmer has me interested in Android again and to learn java programming language. I will probably skin some things for this phone and maybe otthers if I pick up more Android phones, hell maybe build some roms in the near future.
bad night at work, mainly fixing others peoples f--- ups and sovling issues. I don't go back to work till Monday....... so fishing, gaming, messing with this phone (if no issues are found), birthday party, chilling with my daughters, school work, and swimming. Might be off work, but probably not much rest lol. :highfive:
enragedpaza said:
Should be getting my device today and I am excited. First OnePlus deviice. Hopefully no issues for me, fingers crossed. Used to be a heavy Android user, lately iPhone user. Making the decision to become a programmer has me interested in Android again and to learn java programming language. I will probably skin some things for this phone and maybe otthers if I pick up more Android phones, hell maybe build some roms in the near future.
bad night at work, mainly fixing others peoples f--- ups and sovling issues. I don't go back to work till Monday....... so fishing, gaming, messing with this phone (if no issues are found), birthday party, chilling with my daughters, school work, and swimming. Might be off work, but probably not much rest lol. :highfive:
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Nice. I think you'll love the device.
Tip: Just don't bother with the negativity in the forum, the YouTube videos and news articles. Needless to say, I've seen people *****ing about the device every which way. This phone has been great for me, I've seen zero issues so far. I got it during the preorder sale.
This is my first oneplus device too. Oneplus has come a long distance from being "just another cheap Chinese phone", when I was skeptical about it, to creating a name in the smartphone industry.
I have been a Nexus fanatic since the nexus 4 but I don't think they are worth the price tag anymore.
I kinda started out like you, interested in Android, started off learning Java, building roms for the Nexus 4 ( I was on a team that built roms called Euphoria OS, now defunct). Then, as everyone lost interest, I shifted to making money out of coding skills. Built a couple of Android apps. Now I also do Python and JavaScript mainly. Its been a fun ride, never regretted my decision.
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