Related
I just read two similar postings to this, but I felt like I needed to give my opinions anyways. It's not exactly the same anyways.
Nexus One was Google's grand experiment. Some have considered it a failure due to sales numbers, some a success due to lack of marketing, some have lots to say about changing distribution channels, and the plusses and negatives.
But we are the test subjects here. And I'll tell you, coming from WinMo and a TP2, I was at first surprised and happy with my decision to impulse buy an experiment on a new OS. Speed, just-worksness, etc. My only negative was missing Sense. And then Modaco ported the Desire ROM, which I have to say isn't perfect but is 10x more stable than my old TP2 roms. I loved my phone.
However... being a test subject has worn on me. One: the first loved then panned screen, which I've heard everything from inferior coloring to last generation hardware on multitouch, none of which has bothered me, to the infuriating reception, which I have definitely been party to. Worst of all is the world class hardware HTC made to match the Iphone's style... matches it's weakness. I'm on my third N1. One broken digitizer, one broken LCD. Third one no problems so far. The LCD ridiculously while in my pocket.
And finally, the development community. One guy posted about the lack of comparitive stuff he could add from rooting. Any smartphone can add tethering. Porting Sense completed the phone for me, as I missed my smart dialing and weather clock. He got flamed for being demanding of devs, which I can understand on a dev community board... but I agree. The N1 was supposed to be the XDA's dream phone. Fastest updates, superior hardware... you could do anything with this phone. So we have a modified stock rom with additional features and RAM, Apps2SD, and ported Sense. Modaco is off for two weeks, and actually was hammering releases out daily for a while. But on my inferior TP2 they ported HD2 Roms, non HTC Roms, every new feature on any winmo phone... xda did that. They ported Android and convinced me to buy the n1! I am in no way complain about devs. Especially Cyanogen, Modaco, and that guy who has ported both Motoblur and Espresso and is now working on X10 Rom. I patiently await what they do. But all in all, developer response to N1 has been slow coming it would seem.
So to end my giant book post: how do you feel as an n1 user about your experience? The first legit google experience? I am not won over like an iphone fanboy. I am very dissappointed in customer service, and some hardware stuff. But overall I'm happy I made the Android jump. My only conclusion is that my next phone will not be from google dot come slash phone. It will be carrier branded. Rooting means I'll get updates fast anyways, and sales will be so much higher I expect that development will be more active. How do you all feel?
What exactly do you want to be developed? Do you want us Android users to port the lackluster Windows Mobile over to our devices? Is this what you expect?
MOTO Blur can't be correctly ported because of key mapping, and even so the resolution would be off without any current Android devices having MOTO Blur on a big screen, same goes for Espresso. X10 is in the making, as it also has button matching issues. Which are now being figured out.
You seem to be an intelligent person, someone who is smart enough to notice that this phone has been out for less that 4 months - which obviously means there is much to be left discovered. Your post, and this thread, are both pathetic. You act as if developing takes a small flick of the wrist, and as if the developers are not actually "trying" or pushing out more things that tickle your fancy fast enough - exactly what are you expecting? Also, please note that Windows has the ability to boot both Linux and itself, which im sure is a little relevant.
Why don't you wait a little while and see how things play out before making these little rant threads that are not needed..
What else do u want to do that hasn't been done or worked on?
Sent from my Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
I love my Nexus one.
If you buy a phone for what MIGHT come, you've bought the wrong phone.
[QUOTE=trevorwhopkins;6187241 I am very dissappointed in customer service, and some hardware stuffl?[/QUOTE
You had to know you'd be flamed for your thoughts (although all valid opinions), but I can't see how you point out customer service as an issue when you're on your third (I assume free replacement) N1.
Regarding the community and development: I think this time around the community and devs knew what was needed based on prior android custom roms. Things like tethering, multitouch, rotating homescreen, launncher with an extra column, A2SD etc. were all released within a very reasonable timeframe. Then there were things like custom notification colors which didn't take much time to come out, either.
The phone is not perfect, and 99% of my frustrations seem to he simply a design flaw (aka hardware issue) where the normal/comfortable position to hold it creates a false/unintended pressz of the touchscreen resulting in random presses - which many blame software on while never realizing they simply need to adjust how they hold the phone. I learned to adjust, which I think everyone has to do for every phone (learn its quirks and adjust accordingly).
Disappointed? Not at all...overpriced? Maybe...glad I'm still the only one I know who has it? Hell yeah!
Fair post but good luck suggesting to many people at xda that their phone isn't the be-all end-all of mobile device development, its like telling a parent their kid is ugly, there's no reason or objectivity involved so youll be made to look soulless. : )
I personally couldn't care less about xda participation. However I am a little disappointed every time a new bug comes up and it turns out its regarding outdated hardware, in that department I did expect a little more. It's disappointing that we have an old screen and what not, surely Google didn't think users wouldn't discover and discuss the copious problems with the phone...
And I do feel like a beta tester. It does feel like the phone was rushed to the public. But this software is still awesome and ultimately we do have some solid hardware to work with and if Google wants to they can make this phone as stable and pleasurable as they advertised it to be. I am so incredibly curious to know what android has been doing lately, the folks there are historically bad at keeping secrets (thankfully) so they have either tightened security or they have been staring at the wall. I'm guessing the former and I can't wait. For a while after the bugs and shortcomings for this phone began to mount I turned my attention to the iPhone, lucky for android the iPhone OS 4.0 is not impressive. As long as the hardware isn't either, android can string me along for a good while.
I really don't know what to think. Google is making no effort to advertise the phone (for good reason at this point), and they are silent to all of the problems that have come up. I'm starting to think Google wishes the nexus would go away so they could try again...
about nexous one
Let me tell you after owning every phone out there the nexous one is the best and fastest phone i have ever owned period
8525
curve
tour
storm 1
storm 2 both on tmobile
g1
mytouch 3g
iphone 3g
iphone 3gs
HD2
after owning all of those phone i will never go back i love my n1
Look at the g1 its the first android phone and there is hella roms for it just wait and there will be more roms and google will give out more updated witch will make the phone better and better
If you like sinse just get the HD2
YAWN...
You didn't add anything new to what was posted before. It's just a bunch of empty thoughts.
What is it that you want????
As I said before, we have the most up-to-date version of Android already, we can't anything new if we don't fully understand the changes.
This is just about as open a platform as we will ever see, learn to fix/add what you want.
Here is what I ask? At the time the Nexus came out, what phone was better? Iphone... uhm no. Touchpro2... not a chance. Moto Droid? Inferior hardware. The bottom line is, even with a few problems the Nexus has, it is still a top 5 phone, if not the best phone there is. I can honestly say, for T-Mobile, there is not a single phone offered that I would rather have. I can think of ONE other phone I'd consider getting outside T-Mobile and thats a phone that isn't out yet (Evo 4g). Come on man, do you want the phone to mow your lawn for you? It's an incredible device.
Oh and judging the quality of a phone based on sales figures is retarded. I don't care if it only sold one phone, if its a great phone its a great phone.
evilkorn said:
What is it that you want????
As I said before, we have the most up-to-date version of Android already, we can't anything new if we don't fully understand the changes.
This is just about as open a platform as we will ever see, learn to fix/add what you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you. Unlike the G1, we aren't trying to backport 2.1 features or build ROMs with as many things working in 2.1 as we can.
People like Sense, good for them. Personally, I don't care for it in the least. I like a few of the visuals of the status bar from it, which is why I kanged them, but I don't really care at all for the rest of it.
I'm running stock right know.. you know why? Because 2.1 is already the best Android experience! Like Eclair said, I don't get what you want right now.. Yes, the G1 and Magic have alot more ROMS out there but most of them are just 2.1 port attempts! They're trying to get what we already have on our phones. Just to further echo some common sentiments, the phone has only been out for a few months whereas the G1 has been out for a year and a half.. Don't worry, the development will come.. You should feel assured in the fact that many of the top G1/Magic devs switched over to the N1, it was one of the reasons I chose the Nexus over waiting for phones like the Desire.
All that said, I definitely am disappointed with a few things: The various hardware issues that have been popping up amongst different users (I personally have the purple tint issue), and the lagginess of the homescreen swiping. While the 2.1 is very fast in terms of app to app switching or web browsing, it lacks the polish that I hoped 2.1 would have (ie. like the iPhone). Yea, I know things like smooth scrolling on the iPhone are just eye candy, but it matters. It's what appeals to the masses.
An example, I have a non-techie friend who has played around with my Magic before (The Magic was running CursorSense). When he first played around with the N1 his first response was "How come this phone is slower than your Magic, I thought you payed $600 for it?".. He was referring to the scrolling. Of course after I showed him a few neat things (live walls, 3d launcher and gallery etc) he changed his mind but the point remains, the N1 doesn't leave the best first impression.
Overall I am happy with it although I feel it is definitely over priced. But the hardware is built for the future so I'm know that the software updates and future xda development will make it an investment that was worth taking!
Obviously the marketing (lack of) cant have helped sales. Putting it out first on Tmo was a mistake because it severly limited its market even among those who knew about it due to the lack of coverage. I think a traditional carrier launch on either AT&T or Verizon would have moved a lot of handsets. I think Google isnt stupid and they knew these things going in so they had their reasons.
Im not getting the slow development complaints. Its been 4 months. None of the other devices I had saw development that was faster in their intial months of release. At least not as I could notice, I freely admit I wasnt counting roms/apps and logging them in a database.
Personally I dont feel qualified to comment in great detail on a phone I picked up yesterday but I can say I dont regret it at all now that I have hardware in hand. It pretty much rocks as is and I for one am confident that good things are coming and its going to get better.
I will be returning my Nexus One to HTC for repair/replacement due to a faulty power button.
My only real gripe with the phone itself is that the power button is used to sleep & wake the device by default. There is no single button more important than the power button, imho, and it was a poor choice for HTC to design it so.
I take that back, the other huge gripe I have about the phone is HTC's decision to embed the radio antenna at the base of the phone where it is covered by the meaty part of the hand while holding the phone to your ear. Maybe they just assumed everyone would use the headset or bluetooth, but I don't. It is annoying to see it drop a bar of signal because I'm holding the phone naturally in the palm of my hand.
Once I get my replacement phone, I will not be unlocking or rooting it. I will be keeping it intact (and possibly sealed) until this summer, when I can see the next gen iPhone in action, and possibly as late as November, as Windows Phone 7 is already shaping up to be pretty slick.
Here are the things I want in my phone:
1. Just works. Most important thing. Dialer, Contacts, Bluetooth, etc. These things should just be a flick of the finger away.
2. Feature-rich. Integrated search, multi-touch browsing and maps, GPS nav, Native Internet Tethering (bugs the **** out of me that Android doesn't offer this OOB still).
3. Business AND pleasure - don't make me choose between personal email and contacts and enterprise features. HTC has saved Google's ass on this one with their amazing Sense framework from the Desire ROM. Exchange with ActiveSync is a MUST. Also where's the love for Blackberry mail server?? I guess Android is not for law firms? /shrug
4. When something says "Full web browsing", if it doesn't include Flash, HTML5, or Silverlight support, that's false advertising.
Other stuff:
I'm starting to write my apps for Windows Phone 7 SDK, I have been writing apps for the iPhone OS (now looking at iPhone OS 4 beta SDK), and I have written a few for Android.
The Windows Phone 7 SDK using Visual Studio 2010 is bread and butter for me -- its perfect. Working with Xcode on the iPhone SDK always felt clunky, and inefficient. Working with Eclipse on the Android SDK has come a *long* way since I started two years ago, and is much easier now than then.
But VS 2010 makes writing apps for WinPhone7 dead simple. I've already ported across my apps from the iPhone and Android platforms without any 3rd party cross-compilers, and it took a very short period of time.
These days it is the ecosystem that drives the market for handheld devices. iTunes made iPod what it is. The iPhone App store with 180,000+ apps made the iPhone platform what it is (we all know it certainly was nice hardware when it was released, but is definitely dated now). The Android Market has been a blessing and a curse for Android. Many solid apps, but no unified Android platform to develop for (to be addressed in Froyo -- or so they say). No single set of hardware to develop for. It's literally like shooting at a moving target. And developing with open source tools is fun for a while, but gets tiresome when there is so much more effort involved in some of the simplest things.
So that's basically where I am personally at. I love my N1. I will be getting it replaced due to hardware failure. I may not use the replacement, and may sell it instead to finance a Windows Phone 7, or possibly (but not likely) an iPhone over the course of the summer.
And before anyone calls me a hater on any grounds: I have used WinMo in the past, I am using Android now, I have good friends who use iPhones and I hold nothing against them for that. I develop my code on a Windows 7 machine, and I am typing this message on my Mac, which boots Win7, OSX, and Ubuntu.
Lastly, I will say this. There is a sad saying in business that "good enough beats best." This means that despite the technology or ability out there to produce unquestionably excellent goods and services, those which are "good enough" and produce a higher profit margin will win. We will likely always feel like we are being forced to accept mediocrity, but fortunately, the devices we have today will still be outshined, outclassed, and outdone by nearly everything to come in the future.
I would say the negative responses I got here are unappreciated and pointless, but then again they were expected and matter as much as my opinion does.
As for customer service... no. I didn't get anything free. My first n1's lcd broke inside my pocket in a restauraunt. The glass and case was perfect. There were tiny cracks in the lcd. I didn't drop it or anything. I really liked the phone, so I bought another. Google and HTC both gave me a runaround about covering it. Twenty minutes into a conversation, 3 steps up the corporate ladder, and and they finally said send it in, charge 500 dollars, and if your lucky we will give it back. The second time, my wife dropped it, which was her fault. As opposed to my TP2, Palm Pre, my sister's G1, which carriers were glad to replace free immediately if they even looked funny.
My point wasnt to repeat the other guys, only to explain my point about us being beta testers and ask how others felt. I expected some of you to defend it all, and some to complain. I was only explaining the things that made me think about it. And I feel that it is pointless for people to jump all over any person that posts a opinionated comment. If your not trolling or begging or complaining to devs, there's nothing wrong with having an opinion.
I didn't want to end up defending WM at all, only pointing out that their community is insanely creative. I have plenty of respect for how hard devs work. It's not the devs work I questioned, but the amount and interest of the dev community in this phone. If I wanted a WM phone I'ld have gotten the HD2. I like Android just fine, although I'ld be happy to jump on a GSM Droid with 1ghz, as I like my keyboards and hate the glare under the sun of OLED.
Also, all I meant to say about the sales numbers was that is just statistics. Chances are the phone with the most users has the most development, as theaudience is the biggest.
I see all of your points, and didnt mean to complain. The point of my post was this:
How do YOU ALL feel about your experience so far?
Thats why I explained overall how I felt with all the stuff we all have seen positive and negative.
love the phone.. but the touchscreen issues are really pissing me off. and the power button is starting to ***** out on me.
I don't regret at all the $$ I paid for Nexus One. It's an amazing phone with a great OS, it has some negatives like any other phone in the universe (battery,ringtones volume and sunlight visibility) but it has so many positives
My ex-SE phones (that I totally loved) look like an old nintendo NES compared to an XboX360
Other than the **** battery, I'm perfectly happy with my N1.
plain and simple... give me a multi-touch screen that actually works the way it should and I would be 100% satisfied with my phone...
I was hoping that the gaming experience on the phone would be much more pleasurable but with how quirky the touch screen is its nearly impossible to have a great experience...
I would say I am about 80% pleased with the experience so far and I came from a t-mobile dash so the tech on the N1 was leaps and bounds ahead of my old phone but given that I had to shell out all that money for the phone means I should have a 100% sexy piece of hardware instead of 80% of one... with a phone that has no physical keyboard, the touch screen should be much higher quality than it is....
my 2 cents...
Trevor, I agree with you.
Face it people, the phone is a disappointment.
Battery= sucks
touchscreen= sucks
can't save apps to sd= sucks
sloppy slow interface = sucks
3g = sucks
2g = sucks
trackball = sucks
hotmail = sucks
still no flash/html5 = sucks
pink blob im my photos = sucks
no gdocs app = sucks
force closing = sucks
no native profile choice = sucks
silent mode still allows sounds = sucks
slow googles response to the above issues = sucks
bunch of N1 fanboys who can't admit that thier N1 sucks = sucks
So I have been giving a lot of thought to this subject ever since reading a few articles a couple of weeks back about the CEO of Google Eric Schmidt saying that they have no plans on making a "Nexus Two." Not only this, but Google stating that they will no longer sell the Nexus One direct and unlocked from the www.google.com/phone store. My question is, does this threaten the Android platform in the future. I personally think it won't because Android will continue to live on, but the open Android that we have come to know and love today will be jeopardized. This is why I decided to start this thread to see how others feel about this subject and ask some important questions about the fate of Android.
To start off we really have to see what Google's Nexus One brought to the world of Android to be able to see what we will be missing if there is no "Google phone" in the future. On January 5, 2010 Google threw a press conference where it called it's new baby the Nexus One a "superphone" and ever since then the i has been in the news having every flaw dissected and blown out of proportion by tech blogs all around the web. Yes, the Nexus One had some big flaws like the multitouch screen, early T-Mobile 3G problems, No multitouch pinch to zoom (now changed), and even the pentile arrangement of pixels on the AMOLED screen, but it also was the first in the smartphone world (unless you count the HD2, but we are talking about Android not WM in this discussion) to have a lot of huge features that now started this Android revolution. It had a powerful Snapdragon 1 Ghz processor (up to this point the biggest we had was the Droid with an Arm Cortex A8 550 mhz processor), 3.7 inch AMOLED screen (WVGA 800x480 pixels) , 512 mb of RAM (most had 256mb RAM), 5mp camera (with LED flash and 720x480 video capture), and one of the lightest (130 grams with battery), sleekest 119mm heidth by 59.8mm depth), and thinnest (11.5mm) phones on the market. The Droid paved the road and the Nexus One showed OEM's what the top of the line Android phone must have to compete in specs. The Nexus One launched with Eclair 2.1 and was the first to bring it to the world. A couple months after launch Google gave pinch to zoom multitouch to the Nexus One and this allowed other phones like the Droid and now most of the Android phones available to get this much desired feature. Perhaps one of the best features of the phone was that it launched with an unlocked bootloader and introduced the world to the adb command "fastboot oem unlock." I know that are beloved developers have been unlocking the full potential of phones since the Windows Mobile days, but Android has brought that even further. Since then the Nexus One has quickly become the dev phone of the Android world. If you don't like a feature simply change it or flash a different ROM. This wonderful world that the great developers in the Android community work so hard to bring to us is really the "killer feature" of the Android OS and this is being threatened by not having anymore "Google phones." Lately we are seeing companies like Motorola and Verizon using eFuse to lock down their phones and keeping people that spend their hard earned money from flashing ROM's. I am sure the whole eFuse thing has been blown out of proportion and I am sure the next Android superstar (or one of the many we already have here on XDA) will unlock the Droid X to it's full potential, but the mere fact that these companies are locking down phones using the FREE Android OS is very disheartening. We don't want the same cat and mouse game that Apple and their iPhone customers have to play to unlock and use their phones and this is one of the many reasons people flock to the open Android OS.
Not only do we risk "locking down" the platform, but by not having any further Nexus phones we will more than likely never see another Vanilla Android phone. Instead we are seeing what the OEMs and wireless providers want us to see and this is evident in the losing of WiFi tethering in the latest build of Android 2.2, or known as Froyo. If a wireless provider doesn't want a feature (like tethering) the OEM's are then pressured into leaving it out to make them happy. This is not a good thing in my opinion as it again puts the power and fate of Android in the wireless providers like Verizon and AT&T where we are quickly losing the openness of Android and the ability to even side load applications. This is exactly why we need a phone like the Nexus One. A phone that will push the boundaries of innovation and keep the wireless companies honest by simple competition. They won't leave an important feature out if the Google phone already has a version of it out and available unlocked. Without Google making a phone we are left with whatever skin the OEMs have minus the features the wireless companies don't want included. If the Nexus One would not of been released we would be stuck with minimal upgrades and even worse what would make the OEMs and providers hurry with the newest release (Froyo in this case and soon to be Gingerbread)? If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then would all the companies like HTC, Samsung, and Motorola even be racing to get Froyo out? In my opinion the Nexus One is the only reason that these companies are trying to get 2.2 out in a timely basis. I mean I may be wrong as I am not a developer, but what would really make the OEMs and providers want to hurry with their releases if they didn't have the competition? I think it would be the opposite and these companies would make us buy their newest and top of the line Android phone just to get the newest and best Android release. This has been proven in the past and if it wasn't for the iPhone and Google's Android the smartphone world would be a very different place filled with Bada OSs, Windows Mobile phones, no app stores, and worse of all mediocre upgrades. This is the real reason we need Google to release a phone so they can take the fate of Android (and the power, in my opinion) away from greedy wireless companies and OEM's that only look to sell us a phone multiple times a year.
I have really given a lot of thought to this because ever since I purchased my Nexus One back in March (without AT&Ts permission, I should add) I had planned on buying a "Google phone" every year. I was aware that Google would work closely with different OEMs and we would get a great dev phone every year with the latest and greatest Vanilla Android, free from the clutches of wireless contracts, and most of all "OPEN." This was a great idea and I can see why Google's idea of selling a phone didn't catch on here in the states, but they accomplished a lot more than selling millions of devices like Apple does. They accomplished (along with the Droid, which I might add Google had a big hand in creating and bringing to life, and also was free of a locked bootloader) bringing Android to the masses and making the statement to companies that a top of the line Android phone needs to have these specs to compete in the Android world.
I just went out and bought me a Samsung Captivate and to be honest the first thing I thought I would get rid of was TouchWiz, but it has kind of grown on me. I think HTC Sense is nice as well, but I will always be a Vanilla Android fan and there is something about the Nexus One that always brings me back. This will be a phone that I will not ever get rid of and is still the best phone I have ever owned. I am sure many others feel the same way and the Nexus One will continue to be a niche kind of product, but I think I have made the argument that Google needs a phone to further Android and keep the fate of it's Android in it's hands. This could get out of control quick and it could turn bad. We are just nearing the top and Android is here to stay and will be the OS that everyone else attempts to mimic. Come on Google I know I am not the only one that feels this way and this is why I started this thread to get the feel of others in the Android community as I am sure there are others that are worried as well. The open Android that we know and love today is in jeopardy if Google doesn't maintain a little control over their Android OS. The OEM's and wireless companies are going to ruin the openness of Android if they don't have a constant pressure keeping them honest. One of the main reasons that Android has grown so rapidly is that a company like Google has created it to be free, open, and common to many phones so we don't have to worry about dozens of companies with mediocre platforms. Weigh in and let me know how you feel and maybe just maybe we can get someones attention. Feel free to copy this on other forums as I feel we need to save the idea of an open Android. One without the boundaries of no side loading of apps, eFuses, locked bootloaders, and most of all innovation and the advancement of the Android platform.
Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.
JCopernicus said:
Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right, but without a Google phone what will Android be like? We won't see another Vanilla Android phone that is for sure.
Not being able to see into the future makes this a hard statement to take as fact.
There were vanilla phones before nexus one and there will continue to be more
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
If you want a true vanilla android phone grabe one of HTC's china phones, not even google apps are on it. =D
I agree with the basic premise that the Nexus One did provide leverage to potentially (and I think that is a key qualifier) keep the competition honest, but it isn't clear that it would do so without significantly more marketing. And, to market the Nexus One more could have annoyed some of the vendors that Google wants to keep happy - lots of happy vendors means lots of seats for Android means lots of seats off of which Google makes a lot of money. In particular, if every Android phone is locked, then Google still makes a mint, though they stand to make more of a mint if the platform is more widely adopted. And, an open phone does have an impact on platform adoption, but I don't think it is that critical since the public is used to buying fixed feature-set phones and upgrading for new features so this isn't an issue of taking away something that they demand as it is failing to give them something that they would come to know and love (as we already do).
But, I also want to counter some of the supporting arguments you present.
First, the current wave of smartphones was headed here one way or another. Google didn't create the wave, they simply reacted and targeted Android at the capabilities that were coming down the pike. To do that most effectively they needed a new developer phone and the Nexus One was going to be released in January one way or another as the ADP3 until they had this idea to sell direct. It was simply them needing to get out a testbed for the new Android capabilities that were targeted at the new baseline smartphone hardware and they chose to do it in an experimental new way this time. If they hadn't released the Nexus One direct to consumers then you would have seen the same phones come out and you would have seen the same OS releases, you just wouldn't have had a large installed base of end users previewing it on a non-developer handset.
Second, I think the main factor spurring the vendors to get 2.2 out quickly is that it offers so much, not that they have to keep up with the Nexus One. It is, in my opinion, the biggest release so far (and I've been with Android since 1.0) primarily because of the JIT. Also, all the manufacturers came out with what would become the new standard amount of RAM (512MB) and the existing release available for them to ship on did not support it, so they need to get on 2.2 in order to simply unlock the hardware they originally designed. In some sense, these phones were really designed for 2.2 - 2.1 was simply a stepping stone to get them shipped on their hardware schedule until 2.2 was ready on its software schedule. So, there are really 2 factors that would encourage them to get 2.2 out on their 2010-class phones that have nothing to do with the Nexus One being here.
As far as vanilla phones... The G1 was vanilla. The original Droid was vanilla (is it still vanilla with the latest releases?). The Nexus One was vanilla. But, where there any others? I love my vanilla phones (first G1 then N1), but I don't mind value added by the vendors, I just wish they would make it easier to customize things away and that they would learn to design their add-ons so that they can be easily dropped on to a new Android release with little fuss...
Short answer: No. It does not.
Simply put, there will always be a phone that will have Vanilla Android. If for nothing more than using that as a sale point. Especially with Andy 3.0 in the horizon which focus is on the UI. No worries.
Of course it doesn't.
Simple answer, no. There have always been vanilla Android phones, the developer phones at least, and there will always be developer phones. In fact, the Nexus is still for sale now as the latest developer phone.
Eventually there will be another vanilla Android phone that Google is behind, unless they get their own hardware built by someone and don't sell it publicly... but that wouldn't make much sense, just like it wouldn't make any sense for them to not ever have another phone.
Soon enough, the 2ghz and dual-core phones will be out, and eventually mobile devices will catch up to computers in terms of power. They're gonna have to.
I'm sure they will come out with a different dev phone in the future.
I agree with the op, up to a point. While it may be true that there'll always be a phone Google gets behind -a 'dev' phone, if you will- I think it still limits choice for people who want the vanilla experience. Is it really ok to just have one phone that's vanilla?
To the op: "If the Nexus One would not of been released...."
I think you mean "had not been released..."
and: "If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then...."
It's "If Google hadn't pushed Android..."
Sorry for the pedantry. Bad grammar just spoilt a good, well-thought out post.
Consumer are what they are a android is one of the greatest os I have experience.all those problems was soft ware issue and minor only something a child would complain about.i have a nexus almost went with a nokia n900 glad I didn't .proud of google.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I am new to android and the NC is my first device with the OS. I currently have a Storm 1 on Verizon and I hate it. I love Verizon's network but hate hate hate my phone. I'm out of contract and ready for a new phone.
With all the Verizon iPhone rumors, I'm conflicted. Do I get an iPhone when it most likely arrives on Verizon or an android phone that is already there to go along with the NC?
I'm asking this here as you all seem to know so much about android and the NC. I want to tether whatever phone I get to the NC. I'm a mac user solely and like the compatibility there and would have gotten an iPhone immediately a year ago. Now, after experiencing android, I'm not so sure anymore that I even need or want the iPhone.
What are your thoughts on the two paths in regards to phone/NC compatibility and also to a Mac/phone/NC relationship? I really want to sync data between all three fairly seamlessly. Would having devices running different OS's make things too tough or are there enough cross platform apps and functionality to make it not matter?
I fully understand that the NC's capabilities are a long ways from being fully tapped. This might also be moot as both probably can serve my purposes. Figured I would pick your brains and experiences.
Sent from my Nook Color
I have a Mac, iPhone 4 and NC right now and love all three. Apple's stuff are sexy and reliable but closed off. Android is less mature and lacks polish but has so much more potential. When I'm ready for my next phone, I'll look long and hard at an Android. If you like to.customize, I'd say go android. But I love my iPhone. You'll need to jailbreak it to unleash its potential.
Sent from my XDA app on my Nook Color
This is exactly my setup, Mac, iPhone, NC. Syncing, one word - Dropbox. There is entire cottage industry around Dropbox, your Mac, and iOS devices. I don't think you'll be hard pressed to find exactly what you need right there.
But out of curiosity what are you going to be using the NC for, light word, excel type documents, pdf's? I use mine mostly to read ebooks/pdf's, 90%. There are a lot of things in the cloud that are fairly platform agnostic, Evernote comes to mind and different calendar sync apps. Just iTunes search for various one's to sync with google if want it to go with your NC.
As far as Verizon and iPhone, we'll just have to wait. In the US we have it bad, as iPhone (limited by att) does not tether. It's shocking, because in the rest of the world people tehter their iPhones.
I'd say go with iPhone, best of all worlds here, Mac, iOS with iPhone, and Android with the NC. What's not to love, you have it all. That's speaking as a Mac user of course.
newton1666 said:
I'd say go with iPhone, best of all worlds here, Mac, iOS with iPhone, and Android with the NC. What's not to love, you have it all. That's speaking as a Mac user of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same. I love my i4 and I also love playing around with my rooted NC, I wish the phone could just dual boot both OS and I could be content with that magic phone for the rest of my life.
Each has his/her own preferences, it's really what you're looking for . . . I'd recommend spending time with a rooted android phone--not just the NookColor--before making a decision.
We're doing some amazing stuff here with the NookColor--considering what we started with--but this is barely scratching the surface of development on a device that's still running an eReader's stock ROM for crying out loud. That's not even to mention that it's based on (in tech years) an ancient version of android.
If you spend some time with a rooted Evo, Nexus S, or Droid X running a cyanogen ROM, I wouldn't even remotely say android is immature or lacks polish compared to iOS. If anything, I'd say it's the other way around.
I'm a former iPhone 4 and iPad owner, and I much prefer both my HTC Evo and the NookColor (even in its relatively primitive stage of development) over both of them (Plants vs Zombies is the only thing I miss, and it'll be on Android soon).
They say opinions are like a-holes: everybody has one . . . If that's the case, people having a-holes makes the world go 'round, because android would be much less interesting without iOS, and vice versa. I'd say go to stores where you can play with each OS' flagship devices for a while, check out the best each has to offer, and find what works for you.
I would actually say that stock android is better than stock iOS. But until android can support encryption out of box, I can't make the full switch because I can't sync with work.
Sent from my XDA app on my Nook Color
As usual, ask a question like this and you will end up getting every response possible if you wait long enough.
I know folks who love their Iphones and tether with them here in the US. Jailbroken, or whatever its called and some custom stuff, of course. So I don't think that needs to be an issue in the choice.
Android phones have excellent qualities out of the box though, and once they start being rooted and rom'd- fantastic, as far as I am concerned. The ability to customize and make them YOURS instead of the CARRIERS (at least in function and appearance) is far and beyond anything I have seen on an Apple phone.
There are some advantages to either, as always- if you are on the fence then I too would suggest trying to "spend some time" with both and see if that helps make the decision.
I appreciate all the responses. I know that everybody is different, but it's still nice to hear others experiences regarding their setup.
I an an architect by trade and my mac is my lifeline to do all my drawings and graphics, etc. I'd be lost without it. I won't be a hardcore user with all three phone/mac/NC in regards to work. I mainly want email, music, movies, contacts, calander, etc. to be able to be sync'ed between all devices. I make a change in one and I can update in all three.
I've been playing with both iPhones and rooted Android phones and it really is a tossup. I do like the idea of having the iPhone so if there are special iOS apps, I can get it and have the NC for any special Android apps. Best of both worlds. I also really have to wait and see how the Verizon iPhone will be. I'll play with it in store for awhile before I make a choice.
Then the next question is do I wait for the 4G Android phones to come out on Verizon? I'm content to wait until late 1st quarter 2011 until the dust settles on some of this. I just wanted to get some feedback from people on how their NC's are working with their phones, iPhone and Android.
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
by radiation I assume you mean the head tumors
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rick,
To answer your question - why so much work occurs with Android, I would like to take the liberty of rephrasing the question - why so much work occurs with Android phones? There isnt one correct answer for this.
You are correct in saying that carriers and service providers like to cripple the phone before they hand it over to the consumer. So when you buy the phone you really are not using these wonderful pieces of technology to their fullest extent. Thanks to our developers here at XDA because of whom we can in reality free the phones that we paid much moolah for, so that we maybe able to use all of the fones features that have been designed to work in conjunction with the wonderful Android OS.
Secondly, the reason why so much work goes into the phones and development to improve the functionality of the phone is because that is what Android has been designed for. Consumer can customize the phone to their liking and does not have to get stuck with the proprietary, grid like systems like the ones iphone has. Phone manufacturers, and not just Samsung, obviously design the phones software in such a way so that there is always room for improvement. They bet their dollar on the fact that an average consumer will eventually buy a newer product when its released and marketed in the future. There is always something lacking in the product that is in the market right now and that is where all this work comes into play.
Now, whether you shud buy a samsung captivate or not and what the time requirement is, is totally dependent on what you want to use the phone for and what kind of functionality you would like to get out of it.
From what you said that ur not a person who wud like to spend a lot of time modifying or playing around with your phone, you wud still like the captivate. Samsung Captivate is a very nice phone overall. Its got almost everything that you cud want in a phone. In regards to apps included with the phone, you've got a decent selection along with loads of bloatware.... If there is anything missing you can easily find it on the android market.
If you're expecting that your GPS would work right out of the box, then the answer is, maybe - maybe not. and its not android's fault, its a samsung issue. There are multiple fixes for the GPS that you can find on the forum, that being said, if you plan on utilizing those fixes, like you said not only will you void your warranty but you alone will be venturing into that experiment on your phone and dev will not be responsible for any damage that may or may not happen to your phone. But then again no guts, no glory.
So all in all, if you do end up getting the captivate, i dont think you'll be utterly disappointed, but at the same time i dont think you'll be able to sit back either when you see all these new developments posted here.
Hopefully i helped you a little and if i said too much then i apologize.
I welcome any senior member of the forum to correct me if im wrong and/or make any additions to what ive said above..
happy forumming....
My brother has a Samsung focus. It's buggy as hell, completely counter intuitive, and incomplete. Theres also no apps at all. He has like 3 different crappy youtube apps and sound boards.
And there's no CM7 to one day fix it.
Sent from my Captivate.
anandsamuel,
An excellent response; truly what I was looking for to understand the issues involved regarding Android and SmartPhones. You did not say too much.
I guess I need to start reading so I understand how to root a Captivate!
Rick
Also, that font is irritating to read.
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok lets slow you down there. first android is linux BASED not linux. there is no need to worry about OS/ device compatibility. the most interaction between the phone and PC are just file copying like through a usb thumb drive.
the next part regarding carriers/updates/samsung. you answered yourself, kinda, and backwards. Samsung didnt blow it.
Google android updates as much as any software does - to make things better.
they release to manufacturers so they can make it work with their hardware.
Samsung released on time, BUT TO THE CARRIERS.
the carriers then take what samsung gave them and add their carrier specific settings (APN ect) and applications (bloatware).
ATT blew the update timeline.
Sometimes manufacturers release their finished product as "source code" untouched by carriers.
the long process is necessary in each step to (attempt) to make a perfect software package that will work with each phone/carrier out of the box for the end user. so it is unfair to say "born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones"
XDA works off of source codes and carrier releases to make our custom updates.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are ways to return your phone without them knowing what you did. dont worry too much about your "voided" warranty.
before i felt comfortable flashing I took about 3 days reading my A$$ off! and currently im off on workers comp. so that was 3 FULL days. even then i had issues and mistakes and my phone was out of service a few nights! but that is part of the fun.
you do not need to be the type of person to constantly update your phone to buy it. tens of thousands of people have this phone on stock firmware and it fully works. the extra effort and time that we here at XDA and cyanogenMOD do is more out of fun, and customization. Many would argue function as well, as we do sometimes fix things *better* than google/samsung/carriers. but things willl *usually* still function on stock even if on a basic level.
you only need to put in as much as you want to get out of it
so timeline,
flashing custom roms/themes PROPERLY - under a week
cutting and pasting roms frankenROMS - under a month or 2
creating - vast back knowlege of programming, ect YEAR(S)
regarding wanting to update often, not every update on XDA to your rom is necessary unles it fixes something you didnt have.
Each Android/Carrier update, would be recomended (or the XDA counterpart) as each new android version (not rom) contains the most updates/fixes. so if you were running a 2.2 (custom or stock) rom it WOULD be worth upgrading to 2.3 when available (custom or stock). but you dont NEED to update your custom rom every couple weeks when they put out their minor update on the same base rom (2.2 for eg.)
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no comment. best regards
Trusselo,
Excellent, thoughtful response; it helped characterize this activity further for me. My concern is now recognized (and conveyed to others...) as not wanting to be required to become a developer to make my involvement with a SmartPhone constructive. Samsung, Android, XDA looks very good to me. As you mentioned, my reading has begun.
Yes, something is not right with my traditional Comic Sans Serif font here; it seems to compress it horizontally, but my aging eyes typically need this font.
Okay, so im looking for the best deal online for a cellphone preferably through t-mobile and it'd need to be windows phone 7. I am willing to sign a new contract, at&Ts network is just too overloaded in my area and t-mobile is just a bit more friendly. I dont care if it's the venue pro or the hd7 and I've checked wirefly and lets talk. I just want to find the best deal for my money.
Or you could go android....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Amazon? xD
Nerz said:
Or you could go android....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Not desperate enough to downgrade like that.
try amazon!
Thanks for the Amazon suggestions. I'd never actually used Amazon before but it's 50 dollars less. If I can't find anything better by tomorrow I'm switching over.
If you cannot handle Android's Suzuki Hayabusa, it's a good idea to stick with WP7's pink Huffy with training wheels. Amazon is great either way.
Sent from my LG G2x
TJBunch1228 said:
If you cannot handle Android's Suzuki Hayabusa, it's a good idea to stick with WP7's pink Huffy with training wheels. Amazon is great either way.
Sent from my LG G2x
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Click to collapse
nice, compare the OS who's main complaints are lag and fragmentation to the fast bike, outstanding. This thread was not intended to turn into a **** measuring contest between OSes, I've reduced enough fandroids to petty 2nd grade insults in every other one of those I've entered. This thread was simply to get some advice, stop trying to compensate for your perpetually dated OS.
Remove panties, untwist, reapply.
If you are happy using a child-friendly phone, surely you can take a joke.
Sent from my LG G2x
Thank you for proving my point, if child friendly means Im not forced to spend hours modifying it before it can pass as functional then I'm more than happy. Look mommy, no lag.
Yep, Android is the most successful mobile OS, with the largest marketshare and the fastest growth in the history of cellular technology precisely because it requires hours of technical modification before it even becomes usable...
WP7 is barely a blip on the mobile OS radar because the only thing it offers is a smooth UI. It accomplishes this by having no customization. You can play with the phone for a day and have done everything the phone is capable of. This appeals to (a tiny minority) of people who want something to hold their hands while they go about their facebooking and emailing. There is nothing that WP7 offers that Android is incapable of doing, but the list of things WP7 is incapable of would turn any forum post into a Novella.
You like the simplicity of WP7, cool. Those pretty colors on the blocks that tell you if you have an email or text message are rad. I can run a fully functional WP7 launcher on my phone and stare at that before I go into a boredom coma. How many Android launchers with widgets, live wallpapers and customizable icons can you run on your super sweet OS?
Sent from my LG G2x
I believe the term here, and I apologize for my butchering of the English language, is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Yes, android is the largest and fastest growing mobile OS, lets go to t-mobile's website, oh, 2 free android phones and some free flip phones, wonder which I'm going to pick. Hmm, let's try ATT, wow, same thing. Android can be used by anybody, any oem, and because of that it's optimized for nobody. This is why it will always feel like going back to windows 95 to me.
As far as your other statement goes, the UI is a massive selling point, absolutely lag free. However, it does have other points. The social networking integration can not come close with any number of apps on android, Zune pass annihilates any service on android, wp7 makes gaming on android look like a joke for the most part and has full Xbox live integration, the most amusing game I've found thus far on either OS came out near each of their releases. For windows phone 7 its the beautifully crafted IloMilo and for android it's a basic tower defense game, robo-defense. Still robo-defense doesn't work on a number of devices because of *gasp* fragmentation. With the release of your new android device the sword of Damocles is hanging over your head, fat chance that it's ever going to see an update. I own an S2 as well and that things been in my kitchen drawer since 2 days after I got it because it has no wow factor at all. Sure opposed to most android phones the lag is greatly reduced but that's about as relevant as coming in first in the special olympics.
For us devs, the dev environment of wp7 is 1000 times easier than androids and much more user friendly, last I heard androids dev support doesn't even offer anything more than a dead email address anymore. Most importantly, wp7 is people-centric as they like to call it. The main point of a phone is to keep up with people and for that it's perfect. I can pull up a contact, read up on what's going on, message them on Facebook or via SMS, hell I could shoot em an email if I wanted to I suppose. I can do all of this with the full facebook/twitter/live integration out of the box (and yes, my most recent hd7 shipped with mango so I guess they are shipping them out that way now)
Finally, sure, you could launch a piss poor emulation of wp7 on your device, you could even get a cheap rip-off of our keyboard and while imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, regardless of how poorly done, windows doesn't need to do that because hey look, our OS actually works. If it ran on every piece of hardware, if OEMs didn't have to pay for it, and if we'd let Chinese companies that make tablets and sell em for 80 dollars use our OS then we'd have all that hype too. Of course then we'd likely be laggy, fragmented, and always feel like windows 95.
Well it wasn't my intention to derail the thread from it's original topic, I was just being a smart ass.
That being said, I am honestly glad Microsoft is doing atleast a decent enough job to pull a couple users away from Android. WP7 is useless to me as well as the majority of other heavy users, but competition breeds innovation. The better WP7 gets, the better the competition gets in response. Win-win.
I'll consider going back to WP7 when it offers the ability to modify and update the OS and UI independent of Microsoft and the carriers whim. They have free wifi tether yet, either?
Sent from my LG G2x
z33dev33l said:
I believe the term here, and I apologize for my butchering of the English language, is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Yes, android is the largest and fastest growing mobile OS, lets go to t-mobile's website, oh, 2 free android phones and some free flip phones, wonder which I'm going to pick. Hmm, let's try ATT, wow, same thing. Android can be used by anybody, any oem, and because of that it's optimized for nobody. This is why it will always feel like going back to windows 95 to me.
As far as your other statement goes, the UI is a massive selling point, absolutely lag free. However, it does have other points. The social networking integration can not come close with any number of apps on android, Zune pass annihilates any service on android, wp7 makes gaming on android look like a joke for the most part and has full Xbox live integration, the most amusing game I've found thus far on either OS came out near each of their releases. For windows phone 7 its the beautifully crafted IloMilo and for android it's a basic tower defense game, robo-defense. Still robo-defense doesn't work on a number of devices because of *gasp* fragmentation. With the release of your new android device the sword of Damocles is hanging over your head, fat chance that it's ever going to see an update. I own an S2 as well and that things been in my kitchen drawer since 2 days after I got it because it has no wow factor at all. Sure opposed to most android phones the lag is greatly reduced but that's about as relevant as coming in first in the special olympics.
For us devs, the dev environment of wp7 is 1000 times easier than androids and much more user friendly, last I heard androids dev support doesn't even offer anything more than a dead email address anymore. Most importantly, wp7 is people-centric as they like to call it. The main point of a phone is to keep up with people and for that it's perfect. I can pull up a contact, read up on what's going on, message them on Facebook or via SMS, hell I could shoot em an email if I wanted to I suppose. I can do all of this with the full facebook/twitter/live integration out of the box (and yes, my most recent hd7 shipped with mango so I guess they are shipping them out that way now)
Finally, sure, you could launch a piss poor emulation of wp7 on your device, you could even get a cheap rip-off of our keyboard and while imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, regardless of how poorly done, windows doesn't need to do that because hey look, our OS actually works. If it ran on every piece of hardware, if OEMs didn't have to pay for it, and if we'd let Chinese companies that make tablets and sell em for 80 dollars use our OS then we'd have all that hype too. Of course then we'd likely be laggy, fragmented, and always feel like windows 95.
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Click to collapse
can't go wrong with tmobile lowest mainstream contract to offer its unlimited web plan. with being that said wp7 is a real battery hogger as i've heard i think that's what makes up for it's high end graphic UI's pushing it.
Mcds said:
can't go wrong with tmobile lowest mainstream contract to offer its unlimited web plan. with being that said wp7 is a real battery hogger as i've heard i think that's what makes up for it's high end graphic UI's pushing it.
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Click to collapse
Yeah my pre-Mango HD7 got 4-6 hours of moderate to heavy use. But my OC'd and heavily animated G2x only gets a few more hours than that of the same use, so you pick your poison.
Sent from my LG G2x
Pre-mango I'll admit, my battery life on all four of my wp7 devices was a joke, my dvp is literally twice as strong battery-wise, my hd7 gets around 13 hours moderate-heavy usage, and my focus can go two days. That part blew me away. As for what you want from windows phone, the ability to update outside of Microsoft is there for htc's devices though I personally dont see the point in intentionally introducing fragmentation to an OS that is free of it. I doubt there will ever be much more customization than what's intact for the UI, honestly I love not having to move stuff around frequently always looking for that clean but efficient look but that was always just my personal aesthetic preference.