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I have been going back and forth for a bit on wether or not to post this thread, but I think it is only fair for us testers and to post our thoughts and concerns. Mods, I apologize for posting a political thread in a technical forum, but this seems to be an applicable and thread worthy discussion So here it goes:
If anyone other than me (and the 5 trillion noobs on this site) have been following the 'black revolution', does anything seem funny about this whole situation with JJ leaving? First, he goes to htc-devs claiming that he refuses to deal with all of the stupid questions and double posts. This is understandable, and I would not be posting this thread if the situation had stopped there. However, the htc-devs forum had a spring-up new users when they found out JJ had moved (including me), but then ubruptly died off after he moved to 4winmoble. Coincidence...I think not.
Even though I personally think that black3.x is not as stable as 2.5, I highly regard JJ roms and I think that he is one of the top developers out. This post is not trash his work. However, I registered for 4wnmobile (grrrr....again) and checked it out to find that:
Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Is is me or are there more ads than posts?
Isnt it convenient that a certain developer got his own sub-forum (unlike the other forums where his work was previously posted)
Is it me or upon checking this forum do you see the same noob posts that were seen in xda?
So, my question is...
If our highly regarded (not being sarcastic) chef has moved due to the noobular influx, why did he not stay at htc-devs where he had mod control do delete these posts? Why did he perpetuate his problem by going to 4winmob?
Has JJ gone "hollywood"?
I have no idea....
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
at least your turrets only spits out a sentence. mine spits out 5 paragraphs
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
I see it like this:
Everyone has their choices. The ones you choose make who you are.
I personnally keep from postng as much as possible, not to be in the swarm of questions and be reffered to as a "noob". I have read and read the forums to upgrade my devices and fix them when I screw them up. If everyone would just read it would help out a lot.
CUSTEL said:
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
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Agreed. Let this subject die a quiet death.
There are plenty of us left who enjoy this forum and the work that everyone puts in. Chefs, people who share knowledge and answer posts. Noobs are mainly a problem when more experianced people get frustrated by them and start flame wars.
Just ignore them.
XDA still rocks.
Precisely... People come and go, it's natural progression... =)
Sleuth255 said:
I have no idea....
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Sleuth255 said:
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
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Hi Slueth,
[sarcasm]
Great moderation by the way in the hermes forum.....
[/sarcarsm/]
No NOT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i was given my own sub forum which i can completely moderate. I have also got two more moderators with me.
What is this crap about "Hollywood" posted by the member who started the thread? Get real dude, if u dont like then move on.
I also decided that having a general chit chat area on 4WM for people to get to know one another as well as to blow off steam- it is a good idea as it will help keep the tech discussions clean.
Now why dont u all just quit it,,,, for goodness sakes,,,, u are all making a big deal of this.
Yes the site has advertisements as 4winmobile.com is also a comprehensive product review site - WHO CARES!!!!! xda-devs has adds also.
Get over it and move on.....
And by the way, i dont make any money from 4WM - incase you were all wondering..... I just moved there as having control of my own forum seems like an excellent idea since MODERATION on this FORUM stinks!!!!!
Maybe if admin here gave users the power to moderate their threads things will be different. But WHO CARES now - MOVE ON!
Sick of this site, full of,,,, as has been put many times ****WITS!
@Peezy
Quote: Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Yes it has been slow at times DUE TO THE DDOS attacks - gee im wondering where they are coming from.
Really professional members on XDA-developers.
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
Ouch or Wow?
jellycow said:
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
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I'm going to guess that by the lack responses that I'm the first to blink, take a deep breath, and decide to say wow, or ouch. Wow for the last post and ouch for it as well. Whoever you are JELLYCOW, that's the most eloquent, constructively insightfull, and conclusively solid summary I think I've ever read in my life. Thank you. Well said; Top Notch; Classy to say the least.
So to JJ... Keep it real yo. As devolpers go, You're work is stellar, and I'm addicted. I went Black... and the only back I ever will go, is gonna be XDA Devs... I started with my Blue Angel and followed the phones as they came out. But my Hermes... it's heart & soul are from you. It's one of the many handsets that run your OS's, past present & yet to come. Keep doing your ****, we all gotta be good at something. This is what you do... you do it well. Your fans and testers, we will follow... Thanks bro.. Peace
NOW WILL SOMEBODY GET JELLYCOW A DAMN PUBLIC RELATIONS JOB WHILE YOU CAN STILL AFFORD THEM... CAUSE THAT ONE IS GONNA GO FAR... THAT LAST POST IS THE PROOF.
Now i'm going to suck down half a bottle of Hershy's Chocolate Syrup, have a glass of Almond Milk, and tuck my hermes into bed with me so it can wake me up in the morning... cause I'm passing out!!!
[And role credits... that's all folks]
-DJBlu
Well said
Agreed, well said JellyCow. I'm also a Noob, read daily and post infrequently and an avid Black 2.5 user. No question at all that JJ is very talented and deserves a lot of credit...though I think some people go overboard with the brown nosing. He kind of reminds me of some of my coder friends. Extremely talented but volatile. Sometimes extremely talented or tech savvy people just are not equipped with the personality or patience to deal with noobs. Often that only comes with maturity and age. Either way..try not to take yourself too seriously and remember that you started doing this for FUN.
Please, could someone move this PRECIOUS thread full of WONDERFULL non-requested advices to the off-topic section?
... I'm trying to read about WM6 ... thanks!
N1kko, L2readthruthreads.
Having downloaded most of JJs delicacies, I wondered what happened to him and his goodies.
This gives some closure.
All the best JJ.
Ok people, get over it.. like said before its the nature of the beast, people move on and new people take over... just because JJ is making a decision to move on doesnt mean that other people will stop cooking. Its not like this is the first time that a chef/developer has left to have a board they can moderate on due to frustrations from other members.
And who cares what his motivation to move on is?!? i mean honestly?!? JJ is going to do whats best for JJ, he is a big boy and can do what he wants. Its not like he is disappearing or quitting cooking, just moving. He was kind enough to let everyone know where he is going so you can join him, but that doesnt mean you have to abandon XDA either.. everyone has the freedom of choice, so make a choice and quit complaining.
Also i have had many conversations with JJ, and i like JJ, i personally dont want to see him go, but i also understand his frustration. This frustration is a double edged sword.. On one hand we have a developer that is good for the board, cooking roms, etc.. On the other hand we had a frustrated developer that was being abusive to noobs and other members which was making the boards harder to moderate...
JJ, i have an amazing amount of respect for you, and you know that, your a great guy and i do consider you a friend personally, but from a moderator standpoint in regards to the poor moderation; you were part of the problem just as much as the st00pid n00b questions that frustrated you.
With all that being said, i wish you well and hope to have future conversations with you!
Well, I cant say that the backlash was not expected, especially from JJ. I think he has every right to explain his concerns, and I am happy that he did. Again, for people who dont know how to FULLY read a post, I respect JJ's work and equally respect his talent as a developer. My reasoning for even posting this thread (sorry again mods for not posting in 'off-topic') is to give US tester a chance to air out our concerns.
We spend a LOT of time reading and learning how to get the best out of our devices. We pride ourselves in being memebers of this great site, and we pride the work that is published here. We all know that there are some problems with the noobs, and I agree with you shogunmark that this is just natural progression. What is NOT, however, is our ability to deal with it. We have all flamed before, and for those of you who have taken time to even ponder if there is a better solution, I thank you.
Im not here to flame JJ, that would be stupid seeing that I am currently using his ROM. I posted this thread to stir up the pot, and also to address our 'roots'. To speak out for us loyal xda-followers. I have once thought about finding another home, and I'm sure most of us have thought that too. I feel stupid for even attempting to follow JJ around the world for his stuff, and again I'm sure some of you feel the same way too.
The fact of the matter is that I started here, and this is where I am gonna stay. I thank all of you who share the same sense of passion and resolve to make sure that we keep xda the best site around!
It's my belief that this needed to be aired out. Thus the reason for my somewhat tongue-in-cheek initial post.
XDA developers forums are having issues not because of the way we run this board but because we're currently offering WM6 while the rest of the world is still running WM5.
History repeats itself. Have a look through the archives and you'll see astounding similarities when XDA was first to release WM5 while the rest of the world was still running 2003.
We will never silence the voice of a n00b here.
Hey all,
Something has been rolling around in my head the past couple days, and I wanted to get some opinions.
Here's the basic notion: We might be too hard on noobs.
Now a couple of disclaimers...
1. Nothing excuses anyone from searching or doing their due diligence. I've seen more duplicate threads than I can recount, and yes it's annoying.
2. Nothing excuses anyone from etiquette. Being polite and courteous when asking for and receiving help is essential and is perfectly reasonable to expect.
That being said, here is where I think we take the same rules we expect noobs to adhere to, and break them ourselves. First of all, this community EXISTS to foster communication, education, and provide tools to enhance the products we all love. Anyone who says anything less is quite frankly selling XDA short. As such, and as cheesy as it may sound, XDA is a "beacon of hope" to those looking for help amidst the soup of lesser websites online. Before I knew anything, I knew about XDA, and slowly but surely I came to know more. But in my time here, and it seems like "more and more", I have also come to see noobs get increasingly hassled, berated, and outright knee-capped for asking duplicate questions, posting in the wrong forums, not searching for common questions, etc... Now by all means if we see a noob doing these things, TELL THEM, but do so in a manner befitting the community.
Not long ago I read a noob-ish thread, at this point I don't even remember what made it so, but I remember the reactions. The FIRST response was polite, it notified the OP of the infraction, but pointed him in the right direction with a friendly approach. The next FIVE responses were nothing short of hostile... "Learn to effing search noob, READ the damn stickies moron, Gawd another noob who doesn't know how to read!" etc... ONE guy replied rudely, and 4-5 more jumped on the bandwagon as if "Insulting Noob" was an Olympic sport and judging was imminent... each trying to 1-up the last. Personally, I was disgusted.
My point is this... as "good" as it may make some folks here to rip a noob a new one before breakfast and prove to the world just how big your e-d**k is, it does little to move us forward, and personally if I had received such a response as a noob, I doubt I would have come back. I just think maybe we need to ease off on the bashing, and bone up on our "polite education". We were all there at some point after all.
It does not matter where you go on the internet, bashing is just a part of the workings. Some take it far while others take it to the extreme.
If you see people being overly harsh on noobs then please report it. Of course a gentle suggestion that searching and reading is the way to go is not overly harsh imo but please report any insulting and downright rude behaviour to a moderator.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
Theres no excuse to be a noob these days, considering this generation grew up with the internet
natious said:
Theres no excuse to be a noob these days, considering this generation grew up with the internet
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...which makes you lazy; even Google has implemented instant search because having to hit search just makes you feel like your doing to much work
There's nothing wrong with being hard on n00bs as long as it's in a constructive and polite fashion. Being rude to one just because they're repeating a question that's been asked before isn't the way to handle it though.
Question:
"How do i root my HTC XXX..."
Acceptable answer:
"This has been asked many times. Please use the Search function or have a look in the device specific forum where you'll get better information."
Unacceptable answer:
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....this has been asked before you noob. Are you too f****n stupid to do a search??!!??11 Get off my forum you scum sucking leach..."
Hope that clarifies my point
Some of the sentiments on the "unacceptable answer" stems from frustration. I, for one, have for many months shun away from the dev sections simply because of the sheer noob overload.
Most of these peeps simply don't bother to search, and in my opinion, are just too impolite. They come in, make a new topic (first infraction), ask repeated questions (2nd) in the wrong section (3rd) in a very impolite manner (4th, and greatest) with wrong grammar and jumbled up sentences (5th, and hopefully last infraction).
If the n00b would just be POLITE and legible, and use the magic word (please), I would forgive most of the infractions and gladly point out the right thing to do. I might even do a search for them.
So it's not really a community thing that we treat new users like FNG, but here, in this hallowed grounds, I would expect that these new users show some modicum of respect towards the people who turn mundane gadgets into something awesome.
And yes, I get disproportionately angry and respond accordingly whenever I see a dev or a mod get bashed (er... if I did that before, please forgive me ) and I always appreciate their efforts, whatever it may be.
porcino said:
Hi guys, I am a noob, as I am forced to make 10 posts somewhere else before entering the development area. It is OK and it is not the main point...
I think the issue of heated discussions in various Internet forums is broader than, say, bashing or nursing the noobs. Don't you think that as soon one starts writing to a forum, they immediately get a feeling of false ownership. This causes all sorts of emotions. Silly, isn't it? The forums are supposed to be public, anonymous and impersonal.
Anyway, just my 5p. Seven more meaningless posts to go... Best wishes.
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OT for a second: Your post do not have to be meaningless. There is a reason we have the 10 post rule. For information how you can start to become a valuable member of the community, please see the link in my sig about the 10 post rule. Oh, and thank you for putting more then "Trying to reach my 10 posts" in this post
porcino said:
And here it comes... My post is answered with great care, and the topic is not impersonal to me any longer! Thanks to this and for taking part in a psycho experiment.
You point about the opposite of meaningless-ness is valid, actually. People like meaningless things, flattery and attention. It sits deep in us and as natural as, e.g., the olfaction...
Three more to go...
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You're welcome. Due to my nature i'm perfect for taking part in psycho experiments!
I donno, maybe not hard enough... The more I get involved in the community for my phone, as well as read on XDA in general, the more I start to think some kinda test should be involved.
Tho this might sound like much, I'm starting to think that a minimum post number should be needed just to be able to view the development sections for phones (and 10 is not enough). Or something to help them get better acquainted with the process for finding info here.
Then something more (maybe a minimum thanks meter value?) to show that they have enough understanding to be able to troubleshoot their devices before actually having access to the files that may cause issues, and subsequently post about them.
I'm aware it would be hard to implement and maintain, but it would clear away a lot the "junk" that covers the forums. Plus who ever said XDA is a place for everyone and their grandmother? Some of the stuff on here boarders on illegal, and the majority is well outside what the carriers/manufacturer want us doing with these devices.
Now on a different (possibly more in tune with the OP's initial thoughts) note. Yes, I'ed have to say some people, and in an increasing number, are very harsh on "noobs." Of which none is called for... The way I handle a situation as sakai4eva outlined is largely to ignore the person, so that they get the impression that what they have posted is not worth reading. If persistant then I would explain in as few words as possible what they have done wrong and why their post is getting ignored. Bashing and/or flaming only gives them a notion that they can also post that way, which creates even more obnoxious posts/topics. It's well know and overly demonstrated in forums (and any other place ppl can freely/easily post) all over the internet - that people will be mean, harsh, aggressive, and vulgar on the internet because they are not dealing with a person face to face.
Answer to OP...No.
Sent from my ENG S-Off Sensation (Pipsqueak approves of this message)
Babydoll25 said:
Answer to OP...No.
Sent from my ENG S-Off Sensation (Pipsqueak approves of this message)
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Ding!
And we have a (concise) winner!
As of lately our beloved forum has seen some of the worst negativity and bashing I have ever seen. I am not completely innocent in this either. I have made a couple of comments I shouldnt have made too and I apologize to whoever I may have offended. But to be honest this type of behavior and just meanness has to stop. I love XDA and everything we do but we are losing members and developers daily because of all the hate here. If you dont like a rom or whatever work has been done just please keep all the negativity to yourselves. If you have a problem with someone keep it in pm and not in their thread. We have to turn this forum around or we are setting ourselves and our phones up for doom. We have lost alot of good people and maybe if the see the drama has stopped they will come back. I too am on the fence about getting a different phone and moving on but i love this phone. I am capable of building my own roms and themes but I love having a place to share ideas and our work. I am begging my fellow XDA brothers and sisters to help in the effort to make XDA what it once was. With that being said I would like to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and joyous holiday season!
Good stuff man and you are definitely right! Lets stop the bs and get along.....merry christmas xda
mongo41 said:
As of lately our beloved forum has seen some of the worst negativity and bashing I have ever seen. I am not completely innocent in this either. I have made a couple of comments I shouldnt have made too and I apologize to whoever I may have offended. But to be honest this type of behavior and just meanness has to stop. I love XDA and everything we do but we are losing members and developers daily because of all the hate here. If you dont like a rom or whatever work has been done just please keep all the negativity to yourselves. If you have a problem with someone keep it in pm and not in their thread. We have to turn this forum around or we are setting ourselves and our phones up for doom. We have lost alot of good people and maybe if the see the drama has stopped they will come back. I too am on the fence about getting a different phone and moving on but i love this phone. I am capable of building my own roms and themes but I love having a place to share ideas and our work. I am begging my fellow XDA brothers and sisters to help in the effort to make XDA what it once was. With that being said I would like to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and joyous holiday season!
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I agree, but it has to start with XDA being able to control this.
They need to start banning people for at least a week or something so they can learn. This is for XDA as a whole not just our community.
This is not the only place where things are getting out of hand.
People won't stop until something is done, until then there will always be someone trolling trying to get a rise out of people.
I am guilty myself of saying things I shouldn't of, but it just gets to me sometimes. Especially since I cant control it, but I at least base my opinion.
I guess we must all do our part as well and start reporting people.
I've also noticed that there is favoritism going around since some have been banned and not others that have done the same if not worse, not gonna name anyone to not start another flame war.
But that's not OK and if that's the case then there's no point on trying.
I hope everyone reads this and does their part. We have a great phone and we must stop if we want some great development to continue.
Powered by the SGSII....
Its gotta be a group effort or it won't change. If someone is being negative then you just ignore them and if it is offensive then report it to a mod and let them handle it. This should be said for Devs too, you dont have to respond to every negative post and get everyone riled up even more then people go to choosing sides , show a little more maturity and only answer questions pertaining to the Rom ive never seen a forum with Devs who get offended so easily .....just ignore and concentrate on the questions about development of your ROM. I hope this turns around and we have a sucessful forum once again cause this is a really great device we have
ThC23 said:
I agree, but it has to start with XDA being able to control this.
They need to start banning people for at least a week or something so they can learn. This is for XDA as a whole not just our community.
This is not the only place where things are getting out of hand.
People won't stop until something is done, until then there will always be someone trolling trying to get a rise out of people.
I am guilty myself of saying things I shouldn't of, but it just gets to me sometimes. Especially since I cant control it, but I at least base my opinion.
I guess we must all do our part as well and start reporting people.
I've also noticed that there is favoritism going around since some have been banned and not others that have done the same if not worse, not gonna name anyone to not start another flame war.
But that's not OK and if that's the case then there's no point on trying.
I hope everyone reads this and does their part. We have a great phone and we must stop if we want some great development to continue.
Powered by the SGSII....
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I agree with you there has to be some type of enforcement of the rules and it should be a zero tolerence. There has to be consequences for ones actions, without them members are running a muck. And they should be enforced equally no matter who it is or how popular they are. But we as members have to start this by being diligent about abiding to the rules and reporting those who dont follow them.
I agree ...
Although it is not actual "Negativity" or "bashing" that actually starts most of the trouble ...
It is the fact that , it has become the norm, for people to come here and expect to be spoon fed answers, and if they don't get them, they get upset.
XDA is first and foremost, or at least it was, a development community.
Now what does that mean to the end users, well, it means, you should come here to learn and if you have something to share, to participate.
If you are just coming here to "expect" everyone to feed you the answers just so you can pimp out your phone, that is not what it is about ..
READ READ READ, then you can ask better questions.
I am sure the DEVs and most experienced users here get annoyed, with every right, when people ask the same question , OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, when with a little reading they could have solved it themselves.
I hope everyone has a great holiday season!!!
tcboo said:
I agree ...
Although it is not actual "Negativity" or "bashing" that actually starts most of the trouble ...
It is the fact that , it has become the norm, for people to come here and expect to be spoon fed answers, and if they don't get them, they get upset.
XDA is first and foremost, or at least it was, a development community.
Now what does that mean to the end users, well, it means, you should come here to learn and if you have something to share, to participate.
If you are just coming here to "expect" everyone to feed you the answers just so you can pimp out your phone, that is not what it is about ..
READ READ READ, then you can ask better questions.
I am sure the DEVs and most experienced users here get annoyed, with every right, when people ask the same question , OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, when with a little reading they could have solved it themselves.
I hope everyone has a great holiday season!!!
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I too get annoyed when new members or even old members ask the same questions but there is a way to handle it. People are so quick to jump on someone for asking a question then everyone gets defensive and then the fun starts. With the way the threads have been lately you have to read thru 10 pages of pure and utter chaos and crap to find your answer. It does seem that those of us that have been here for awhile want to see a change. I have received alot of pm's in support. I know with some work and help from the mods we can make it the way it was. I am totally committed to this.
LONG time XDA'er here. You Mods these days are really something else. Personally this is the SECOND developer ( Dj_Steve and Mohgk ) I've seen you drive away on 2 of 2 devices in the last 3 months. Statistically you are hurting the forum more than moderating and using your common sense. That has to say something.
All you needed to do was read the threads, warn in threads, and clean up the spatter. I moderate on several other sites. This is just sad and seriously makes me think about alternatives. It been like this for the last 1.5 years here on XDA.
Had you properly moderated, you would have seen the initial posts which flamed the threads. If someone told me my work was unappreciated and garbage after I spent hours on something, I'd be a little miffed too.
In any case, great moderating. Good luck to the other upcoming Devs. Happy holidays everyone
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda
I think one of the main problems is that due to android's growing popularity, we're seeing a lot more ignorant douchebags in here who just want to take & not give, and who have zero knowledge of forum etiquette. I was a sidekick dev back in the day & xda is sadly starting to remind me a lot of the old Danger forums- a wild jungle of a place where you had to hack through post after post of word-vomit & ignorance before you can actually find any REAL knowledge. Yes, we need to take out the trash & start cracking down on the jackassery. Badly. I'm tired of seeing threads devolve into personal attacks & 8th grade bickering over stupid ****. Its gotten to the point where I hesitate to even post sometimes.
Sent from my PG41200 using xda premium
kabuk1 said:
I think one of the main problems is that due to android's growing popularity, we're seeing a lot more ignorant douchebags in here who just want to take & not give, and who have zero knowledge of forum etiquette. I was a sidekick dev back in the day & xda is sadly starting to remind me a lot of the old Danger forums- a wild jungle of a place where you had to hack through post after post of word-vomit & ignorance before you can actually find any REAL knowledge. Yes, we need to take out the trash & start cracking down on the jackassery. Badly. I'm tired of seeing threads devolve into personal attacks & 8th grade bickering over stupid ****. Its gotten to the point where I hesitate to even post sometimes.
Sent from my PG41200 using xda premium
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+1 I agree 100%
I also hesitate to post bc of all the dbags. I've been on xda for a good while now and I've never seen things this bad. Its really frustrating to see all this **** cuz no one behaves like this in real life. I wish ppl would just be chill and not try to be internet thugs. Any who I would really love to see this forum turn around and be more friendly and productive. Well that's my piece lol I'm down to do whatever I can to change this place.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
kabuk1 said:
I think one of the main problems is that due to android's growing popularity, we're seeing a lot more ignorant douchebags in here who just want to take & not give, and who have zero knowledge of forum etiquette. I was a sidekick dev back in the day & xda is sadly starting to remind me a lot of the old Danger forums- a wild jungle of a place where you had to hack through post after post of word-vomit & ignorance before you can actually find any REAL knowledge. Yes, we need to take out the trash & start cracking down on the jackassery. Badly. I'm tired of seeing threads devolve into personal attacks & 8th grade bickering over stupid ****. Its gotten to the point where I hesitate to even post sometimes.
Sent from my PG41200 using xda premium
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DITTO!!! Could not agree More ...
The mods just bann everyone its anoyying especialy when they dont know what happens its sad
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
Good chance if we all keep talking bad about the MODs in here we will all get banned ...
Problem is HOW they select their MODs, some are great, some just won the popularity contest ....
tcboo said:
I agree ...
Although it is not actual "Negativity" or "bashing" that actually starts most of the trouble ...
It is the fact that , it has become the norm, for people to come here and expect to be spoon fed answers, and if they don't get them, they get upset.
XDA is first and foremost, or at least it was, a development community.
Now what does that mean to the end users, well, it means, you should come here to learn and if you have something to share, to participate.
If you are just coming here to "expect" everyone to feed you the answers just so you can pimp out your phone, that is not what it is about ..
READ READ READ, then you can ask better questions.
I am sure the DEVs and most experienced users here get annoyed, with every right, when people ask the same question , OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, when with a little reading they could have solved it themselves.
I hope everyone has a great holiday season!!!
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+1 I know I don't know everything but I always try to use the search button to find my answers before starting a new thread or asking in the thread. I really find it annoying when someone asks a question that has been answered in the OP especially. When I do try to help I'll try to point them in the direction but not spoon feed them the link.
I remember when I used to have my Vibrant. Moderators would shut down a thread and clean up the whole thread and then re-open it later on after cleaning up all the bs. Threads still are getting cluttered up with Thank you's and downloading now posts. We have a thanks button for a reason.
Peace & love
" can't we all just get along? "
Sent from my SGH-T989
mongo41 said:
As of lately our beloved forum has seen some of the worst negativity and bashing I have ever seen. I am not completely innocent in this either. I have made a couple of comments I shouldnt have made too and I apologize to whoever I may have offended. But to be honest this type of behavior and just meanness has to stop. I love XDA and everything we do but we are losing members and developers daily because of all the hate here. If you dont like a rom or whatever work has been done just please keep all the negativity to yourselves. If you have a problem with someone keep it in pm and not in their thread. We have to turn this forum around or we are setting ourselves and our phones up for doom. We have lost alot of good people and maybe if the see the drama has stopped they will come back. I too am on the fence about getting a different phone and moving on but i love this phone. I am capable of building my own roms and themes but I love having a place to share ideas and our work. I am begging my fellow XDA brothers and sisters to help in the effort to make XDA what it once was. With that being said I would like to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and joyous holiday season!
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Well said my friend....hence my signature.
There is enough hate in the world. Why can't we all get along here ...?
mongo41 said:
As of lately our beloved forum has seen some of the worst negativity and bashing I have ever seen. I am not completely innocent in this either. I have made a couple of comments I shouldnt have made too and I apologize to whoever I may have offended. But to be honest this type of behavior and just meanness has to stop. I love XDA and everything we do but we are losing members and developers daily because of all the hate here. If you dont like a rom or whatever work has been done just please keep all the negativity to yourselves. If you have a problem with someone keep it in pm and not in their thread. We have to turn this forum around or we are setting ourselves and our phones up for doom. We have lost alot of good people and maybe if the see the drama has stopped they will come back. I too am on the fence about getting a different phone and moving on but i love this phone. I am capable of building my own roms and themes but I love having a place to share ideas and our work. I am begging my fellow XDA brothers and sisters to help in the effort to make XDA what it once was. With that being said I would like to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and joyous holiday season!
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I agree stop all the bs and grow up.
Agreed. It's like a Damn soap opera in this *****.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
+10000. How do we stop the idiotic few that are ruining it for the majority? Mods have a full time job.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
quest4fire said:
+10000. How do we stop the idiotic few that are ruining it for the majority? Mods have a full time job.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
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Use the report button lol
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
I am starting this thread because I am sick and tired of losing developers for a phone that desperately needs them. First it was the WC and BC fiasco that damn near put us out and now some person with no sense of flashing and a lack of understanding when it comes to reading directions has driven away one of our most helpful and successful developers. (WHEN YOU ARE TOLD NOT TO FLASH UNLESS YOU FULLY AND COMPLETELY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING THEN DONT FLIPPING FLASH IT)
To make it worth while I am starting a donation thread, to reward one of the people who have busted their ass (can I say that in the forums?) to help us and give us the phone we know the VIVID should be. I realize more then just PG has done a lot for us and I hope I am not offending anyone.
To put it simple I am starting out with a personal $100 donation. It is not much but it is what I have right now. If anyone wants to flame about what I am doing here do me a favor and don't. MODS, if this turns into a bashing war I would hope for some regulation and the ultimate closure of the thread if problems arise, I am not here to make enemies.
To quote DeamonFish on IRC: "BABY COME BACK! YOU CAN BLAME IT ALL ON ME..."
I'll give 10, I know it's measly, but its all I can give without my wife noticing ; ) saving for Ireland
At this point in time I cannot donate, but I hope to soon.
PirateGhost, please, keep doing what you do. I personally enjoy your ROMs, they're absolutely Amazing.
Thanks, and I hope you reconsider.
I will contribute $20 if he decides to come back. I was very close to flashing his Ice Cream Float before the drama happened, and I want to help showing that there are some people out there who do read, listen to directions, and THINK before going on a forum.
I was and am planning on donating to PG and some of the others as well. I know PG was responsible for a lot of the good work here. The irony is that his RUU might be the one thing that actually could have saved my phone, (At least may have been.) and now it's gone, along with another talented developer. Win, lose or draw, I will donate to this cause after I get some sleep and calm down a little bit.
What others did TO THEIR OWN PHONE and blamed PG was just plain stupid. I'll be donating.
There was a fair warning from the very beginning..
I'll donate. I just need to transfer some funds to my PayPal first.
PG and the other devs left for different reasons but I can pretty surely say that money is not the problem. They did all this developing from free will, not for donations. If PG does come back, he'll just get hit with the same bull**** he's been having to deal with these past few days. I'm just not sure raising money is the right way to go.
We (as in the Vivid forum) were not ready for an ICS release. Based on the huge number of people with bricked phones or bootloops, you can all see how many people jumped in without knowing ANYTHING and for lack of a better term, winged it...which led to their problems. These members didn't wait for an RUU, didn't read any of the stickys, didn't read any of the answers PG already posted in his 20 page threads and on top of that, a couple even went as far as to blame their own failures on, as well as make crazy accusations towards PG. For that, the rest of us suffer and that's how it is.
I love the support so far, please keep it going. Hopefully word gets out
penguinfishies said:
PG and the other devs left for different reasons but I can pretty surely say that money is not the problem. They did all this developing from free will, not for donations. If PG does come back, he'll just get hit with the same bull**** he's been having to deal with these past few days. I'm just not sure raising money is the right way to go.
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I totally agree, but I feel that pledging to donate to him is a show of good faith that there are a number of us who enjoy his roms respectfully. I think it's time for the minority of users with good experiences to overshadow the stupid noobs who have ruined it for the rest of us.
I would for sure donate to the cause...
I myself have been known to ask stupid noobish questions, so I can only imagine how many posts, repeat questions and PMs he must have gotten after releasing this. I was amazed how many people blamed him for their own mistakes, I too bricked my phone but never once blamed him as after I did so I read everything again and again and then realized what I did wrong.
I do hope he comes back after maybe taking a little time away, but there has to be a way for him to have some protection from people, their questions and comments...
P.S.- A semi unrelated but somewhat related statement (and I don't want to start a firestorm) but I do wish in some of these DEV threads the fluff and worthless posts (mine included sometimes) would be erased to keep threads small and more full of worth while information.
I think people got their phone bricked cuz this update was for ATT Stock not any other carriers. So if they tried to flash, it's their own risk. Not to blame all the good devs out there give us better phone than stock.
I would donate too.
I myself asked a question in that very thread that got closed. I wanted to know if that ROM was for my phone because I didn't find any reference to "Velocity". Although people say Vivid and Velocity are interchangeable, I thought I'd ask. And I'm glad I did, otherwise I would have a bricked phone too.
Just one or two IDIOTS spoiling the party for everyone.
PG - can you start a private share so that you can control who has access to your zips and we can still download them?
ststeve123 said:
Just one or two IDIOTS spoiling the party for everyone.
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And this is precisely why we can't have nice things.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA Premium App
I leave for a few hours to go to dinner with some friends and this is what I come back to?
What happened?
I've read 99% of all the posts in the Vivid section, including PG's. Can't belive how much patience and time he put in those replies. I, for one I wouldn't even bother to answer most of them. Unfortunately people don't always appreciate it from obvious reasons (have no idea what developing is). Hope he comes back, it's nor fair to leave us for one or two mindless posters. Is not the noobs, or only the Vivid owners, is the whole Android community that needs him.
Sent from my HTC Vivid via Tapatalk
thecubed said:
I leave for a few hours to go to dinner with some friends and this is what I come back to?
What happened?
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That is where I was at last night... Some Galaxy nexus moron didnt read instructions and bricked his wifes Vivid from what I caught on to. Then he blames it on PG. See General thread First Rom Flash Rum Float Beta for exact details.
I agree with everyone here. When I was told HTC flashing on the vivid was different from other phones and older HTC phones I listened. I waited 48 hours to flash until I made sure I knew everything. Even then I sat in the IRC and continued asking new stupid questions. I was never chewed out, never driven off. I was answered, had my own laughs for stupidity and ended up with ICS.
When someone flashes a rom its like accepting a TOS agreement that comes with software. You agree that it is your own fault if the flash fails, especially if it was successful for so many others.
I am sure PG doesnt care about the money, but its an attempt to show him that just because some people are morons doesnt mean no one supports him and appreciates what he does.
I still haven't flashed ics and won't until I have the time to do it correctly and the knowledge. I have reread how to do it many times. I want to understand how it works before I put it on my phone. It would be awesome to have the newest thing but not at the expense of my phone for not following instructions. I wish I had time to develop but I work two jobs and have a baby coming in a few months.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
I'm not sure that he is taking donations at this point. I donated $10 earlier today and he refunded it?!?
I appreciate the gesture but I cannot bring myself back.
Jazz, I refunded your donation partly because of the way you handled yourself with WC, and partly because I want no expectations from any of this.
I refunded Uberamd because sending me a donation does not give you the right to say whatever you like. It's not a free pass to talk ****.
Sent from my HTC PH39100
I only joined XDA in October. I use it a lot though due to an unswerving flash addiction.
I see this kind of message a lot in rom threads: 'Hello! I love your rom! It's by far the fastest I've used on XDA. The thing is, the clock is 0.0000000000000000000000000001% off center, and until this bug is sorted out I can't use your rom as my daily driver.'
Are we all getting too picky? It's a bit like saying 'well, thank you for the offer of a free Ferrari, but I don't like the color of the cigarette lighter so for now I'll carry on walking to work.'
Have you ever worked Retail before?
You get tons of people who like what you have to offer and appreciate it so they keep coming back, then you have the people who think the world should revolve around them. The people who believe you owe them something for no apparent reason and the people who like to complain just to complain. They are the ones who sometimes try to act nice but complain over the smallest things and try to pull a fast one on you.You really have to either have patience with them or just completely ignore them because they think you have nothing better to do than to serve their needs/wants. But don't let them take advantage of your hard work and dedication to what you do.
Don't let that evil person make you lose composure, just remain cool and remember all the other people who thanked you for your work and appreciate you doing it for them.
Those people who complain over the little things on a rom complain about everything in their life, and are never satisfied with the way things are going, and are too much of a hassle to please as all they will do is complain some more. Eventually they will just goto another rom and complain there as well.
kmx said:
Have you ever worked Retail before?
You get tons of people who like what you have to offer and appreciate it so they keep coming back, then you have the people who think the world should revolve around them. The people who believe you owe them something for no apparent reason and the people who like to complain just to complain. They are the ones who sometimes try to act nice but complain over the smallest things and try to pull a fast one on you.You really have to either have patience with them or just completely ignore them because they think you have nothing better to do than to serve their needs/wants. But don't let them take advantage of your hard work and dedication to what you do
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Nice analogy, especially has I've worked in retail most of my life. I sometimes feel that the ROM and kernel devs deserve a bit more than the demands they receive. Another favourite of mine is when I'll be reading a thread and someone will randomly say 'no good, no immersive' and nothing else.
Then again, I've barely been here 5 minutes!
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
Paradelle said:
I see this kind of message a lot in rom threads: 'Hello! I love your rom! It's by far the fastest I've used on XDA. The thing is, the clock is 0.0000000000000000000000000001% off center, and until this bug is sorted out I can't use your rom as my daily driver.'
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But on the other hand they are using commercial software they have to pay for which is full of bugs and where they are used as beta-testers for the first releases...
But I have to confess, that Microsoft improved over the last couple of years compared to let's say, ehm, windows ME
It only gets worse from here. I hate to say this, and I don't mean to tar everyone with the same brush, but compared to iOS and WP users, Android users are some of the most egotistical, demanding, self-entitled, and utterly immature tech audiences out there, and a lot of users on XDA are even more-so. Most don't give a rat's ass how the development pattern goes, what XDA is for, or the fact that no one is being paid to contribute (there's also a special kind of full-retard XDA user that thinks donations are some sort of contractual payment).
You won't get anywhere trying to reason with these people, as they don't think they're doing anything wrong. It's a losing battle, let them be, and if you really want to, drop your favorite dev at least a thank-you note (if not a donation) in his XDA inbox, letting him/her know you personally appreciate the work being given to you at no cost on someone else's free time.
The longer you spend here, the more you'll be able to split the idiot users from the users who have true respect for this place.
That's another small reason I'm still on the stock ROM. I had to root and found a few tweaks to fix a few legit problems and awesome mods and I'm happy. But I really needed a stable well running phone and got one that I can easily tweak no problem.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
kmx said:
Have you ever worked Retail before?
You get tons of people who like what you have to offer and appreciate it so they keep coming back, then you have the people who think the world should revolve around them. The people who believe you owe them something for no apparent reason and the people who like to complain just to complain. They are the ones who sometimes try to act nice but complain over the smallest things and try to pull a fast one on you.You really have to either have patience with them or just completely ignore them because they think you have nothing better to do than to serve their needs/wants. But don't let them take advantage of your hard work and dedication to what you do.
Don't let that evil person make you lose composure, just remain cool and remember all the other people who thanked you for your work and appreciate you doing it for them.
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Why was I satisfied with the Samsung's Note battery series and disappointed with the Nexus line's?
Sent from my Nexus 5
dicecuber said:
Why was I satisfied with the Samsung's Note battery series and disappointed with the Nexus line's?
Sent from my Nexus 5
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OP, this is an example of a post to not bother responding to. All it takes is to look at his posting history; "dicecuber" spends most of his time either criticizing the Nexus 5, or posting completely irrelevant "questions" in threads that have nothing to do with them (i.e., he asked in the Nexus 5 Singapore thread "can you chew gum in Singapore").
People that respond to this sort of post only enable it to keep happening.
kmx said:
Have you ever worked Retail before?
You get tons of people who like what you have to offer and appreciate it so they keep coming back, then you have the people who think the world should revolve around them. The people who believe you owe them something for no apparent reason and the people who like to complain just to complain. They are the ones who sometimes try to act nice but complain over the smallest things and try to pull a fast one on you.You really have to either have patience with them or just completely ignore them because they think you have nothing better to do than to serve their needs/wants. But don't let them take advantage of your hard work and dedication to what you do.
Don't let that evil person make you lose composure, just remain cool and remember all the other people who thanked you for your work and appreciate you doing it for them.
Those people who complain over the little things on a rom complain about everything in their life, and are never satisfied with the way things are going, and are too much of a hassle to please as all they will do is complain some more. Eventually they will just goto another rom and complain there as well.
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And you complain about people who complain, if no one complained about anything what a terrible world it would be.
My motto is nothing happens if you don't ask. You don't have to be rude while asking, but if there is something bothering you, speak up. I don't see a problem with trying to perfect your experience. Say I use ROM X, but there's a certain feature in ROM Y that I love. Asking ROM X to include the feature from ROM Y isn't the end of the world. At the very least you'll get a no which may or may not come with an explanation as to why.
I don't believe never being satisfied is a negative. I believe it helps you strive for more which in turns helps you progress. I may be happy, but I'm not satisfied. For me, being satisfied means to accept things as they are and no longer push forward. I'm not saying being satisfied is a bad thing, rather I believe both being satisfied and not being satisfied are both good. Everyone ticks at their own pace, no need for us to all conform.
As for your example, everyone is different. Some people have OCD, through no fault of their own. Something as small as the clock being off centre can throw people off. As long as they aren't being rude, I see no problem in them pointing it out. Regardless of how insignificant the issue may be for you personally, the fact remains it is an issue. Bugs can't be fixed if no one reports them.
LiquidSolstice said:
OP, this is an example of a post to not bother responding to. All it takes is to look at his posting history; "dicecuber" spends most of his time either criticizing the Nexus 5, or posting completely irrelevant "questions" in threads that have nothing to do with them (i.e., he asked in the Nexus 5 Singapore thread "can you chew gum in Singapore").
People that respond to this sort of post only enable it to keep happening.
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i like you :highfive:
I just read on here some guy said he donated and what he was going to get for it. Like the dev owed him something.
jelle2503 said:
I just read on here some guy said he donated and what he was going to get for it. Like the dev owed him something.
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What's his name?
Anybody who's down for donating w/o knowing where his funds are going is someone I'd like to know.
welcome to xda.. things used to be different... long, long ago...
SOHKis said:
welcome to xda.. things used to be different... long, long ago...
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I agree. I don't know if people do this anymore but the bounty threads always end in drama. Users think a donation is more than that; a legal binding financial commitment. So when a dev doesn't come through they rage or threaten. They forget the definition of donations.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Paradelle said:
I only joined XDA in October. I use it a lot though due to an unswerving flash addiction.
I see this kind of message a lot in rom threads: 'Hello! I love your rom! It's by far the fastest I've used on XDA. The thing is, the clock is 0.0000000000000000000000000001% off center, and until this bug is sorted out I can't use your rom as my daily driver.'
Are we all getting too picky? It's a bit like saying 'well, thank you for the offer of a free Ferrari, but I don't like the color of the cigarette lighter so for now I'll carry on walking to work.'
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You are not alone with those thoughts.
Over the years XDA has grown from a site made up of just developers, to a site comprised of more users than developers.
With the increase in users comes more non-development posts.
It is a balancing act to keep XDA focused on development and the non-development chatter to a minimum.
I am no going to close this thread.
If anyone has any questions or comments please PM me.
Thread closed