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Has anyone used a hand-cranked charger? I have a Brookstone hand-cranked flashlight/radio that can charge phones. I'm considering getting an adapter to charge my Tilt but I don't know if it can handle it. It says it can output up to 600mA. I've heard bad reports of other chargers with dumb phones but nothing of this one. It seems unlikely this can keep a power-hungry Kaiser charged. It also outputs 6 volts. I hope this doesn't fry the phone.
Edit: I meant 600mA
Any estimates on how long it would take to reach full battery charge?
A couple of hours?
Excellent for weight loss, especially if you use 3G...
The standard Kaiser or Hermes wall charger is rated at 1A (1000mA), and a powered USB port outputs 500mA. As some people have problems charging from USB - particularly after completely discharging their batteries, then I'd think that 500mA is the minimum power required to charge.
If you install one of those programs which displays battery power you'll probably find that the power draw is much higher than 6mA (even in standby) so all you'll do with the hand cranked charger is slightly reduce the rate at which the battery is discharging.
Looking at a 1350mAh battery, this would take a minimum of 9 days and 8 hours to charge the battery from flat if it isn't being used - great workout but hardly worth it
I got a cheapo one from some gareg... AA branded thing for a fiver, flash light thingy to... five mins of winding gave a one percent increase in battery, but then if your really stuck it could be a good thing... only cost a fiver too!
I have the ambition to build a home made external battery pack for my HD2 . I'm not a electrical engineer, my knowledge on this is very basic. But, if I start to think, wouldn't it be just as easy as mounting 3 or 4 AA batteries in series, because USB is 5V? But then is the is the amperage enough?
Please give me some thoughts!
http://www.boxwave.com/products/batteryadapter/batteryadapterforminisync.htm
http://www.boxwave.com/products/batteryadapter/index.htm
I have the first one, but modded it so that the USB port is directly attached to the case (like the second one).
Haven't failed me yet; however it won't charge an iPod due to its unique USB circuitry
Yup, 4 AA rechargeable batteries would do it, I wouldn't try alkaline ones as that would give a good 6V.
Alright thanks after all. I think I'm not going to make it myself, because taking the risk of blowing my HD2 is one step too far now .
the biggest problem with external packs vs AC adaptor is that
1) most AA battery packs outputs to HD2 @ around 100ma reason being the voltage is too low.
2) i have tried that sanyo 5000ma USB battery pack which does around 400ma, it charges faster but it's actual power output is around 4v
the key is the higher the voltage, the faster it charges.
I have seen most 4AA battery packs are conected as 2x serial, 2x parrallel, which means if you are using 2500mah batteries, it's only [email protected]
http://www.boxwave.com/products/batteryadapter/batteryadapterforminisync.htm
this device is connected as such as i have it also.
I tried using sanyo eneloops, hd2 recharges @ 140ma
i tried 2800mah powerex, HD2 charges @ 110ma
i tried diposalble lithium, hd2 charges @ 350ma (measured at 3.3v )
4AA all connected in serial would be the most ideal. but it only stores very little power. 1.3v x4=5.2v but if your battery is 2500mah, then it's only [email protected]
the higher the voltage the faster it charges.
I am actually thinking of building a 8AA battery, to make it a [email protected] but 8AA batts aint light. but am sure it will charge the phone as fast as AC adaptor.
AC adaptor does around 5v -/+ 0.3v 850ma
I am thinking out making my own battery pack also. one that does 5.2v @ 2000ma so that it can charge the battery as fast as AC adaptor.
but the problem is li-ion chemistry dont really allow high discharge unless it's A123 batteries.
2nd is that nimh batts are capable of high discharge but they dont really store alot of power in terms of weight to power ratio.
nimh states 1.2v but is 1.3v at full charged. highest i have seen from my batts are 1.35v
li-ion states it's 3.7v but at full charge it's 4.1v, highest i have seen from my batts are 4.25v
the key is building a circuitry that ups the voltage to 5v and acts as a voltage stabilizer aka mosfet and capacitor. but P=IV and considering the power loss from voltage conversion.
sigh.... why cant anyone build a extended battery the size of iphone's external battery slot-in. i dont mind if the phone is thicker. but rather than a hump in the middle of the phone, they can always make the battery the size of the phone. kind of like battery+case type.
the thing about battery ratings are,
eg, rechargeable batteries states 1.2v, that is actually the MINIMAL voltage.
same goes for akaline. 1.5v @ minimal.
li-ion 3.7v MINIMAL.
lithium 1.6V minimal , i have one batt at measures as high as 1.77v !
all devices have a wide range input. for reasons
1) AC adaptor rates @ 5v but it need tolerance cuz it fluctrates from 4.6-5.4v
2) batteries start high, ends low, but voltage curve is very stable.
There are more than enough commercial, regulated packs either for AA batteries or with integrated li-ion batteries, for many budgets, to lose time making one yourself IMO.
Thanks for your story .
Please keep me posted if you are going to try for yourself!
purezerg said:
the biggest problem with external packs vs AC adaptor is that
1) most AA battery packs outputs to HD2 @ around 100ma reason being the voltage is too low.
2) i have tried that sanyo 5000ma USB battery pack which does around 400ma, it charges faster but it's actual power output is around 4v
the key is the higher the voltage, the faster it charges.
I have seen most 4AA battery packs are conected as 2x serial, 2x parrallel, which means if you are using 2500mah batteries, it's only [email protected]
http://www.boxwave.com/products/batteryadapter/batteryadapterforminisync.htm
this device is connected as such as i have it also.
I tried using sanyo eneloops, hd2 recharges @ 140ma
i tried 2800mah powerex, HD2 charges @ 110ma
i tried diposalble lithium, hd2 charges @ 350ma (measured at 3.3v )
4AA all connected in serial would be the most ideal. but it only stores very little power. 1.3v x4=5.2v but if your battery is 2500mah, then it's only [email protected]
the higher the voltage the faster it charges.
I am actually thinking of building a 8AA battery, to make it a [email protected] but 8AA batts aint light. but am sure it will charge the phone as fast as AC adaptor.
AC adaptor does around 5v -/+ 0.3v 850ma
I am thinking out making my own battery pack also. one that does 5.2v @ 2000ma so that it can charge the battery as fast as AC adaptor.
but the problem is li-ion chemistry dont really allow high discharge unless it's A123 batteries.
2nd is that nimh batts are capable of high discharge but they dont really store alot of power in terms of weight to power ratio.
nimh states 1.2v but is 1.3v at full charged. highest i have seen from my batts are 1.35v
li-ion states it's 3.7v but at full charge it's 4.1v, highest i have seen from my batts are 4.25v
the key is building a circuitry that ups the voltage to 5v and acts as a voltage stabilizer aka mosfet and capacitor. but P=IV and considering the power loss from voltage conversion.
sigh.... why cant anyone build a extended battery the size of iphone's external battery slot-in. i dont mind if the phone is thicker. but rather than a hump in the middle of the phone, they can always make the battery the size of the phone. kind of like battery+case type.
the thing about battery ratings are,
eg, rechargeable batteries states 1.2v, that is actually the MINIMAL voltage.
same goes for akaline. 1.5v @ minimal.
li-ion 3.7v MINIMAL.
lithium 1.6V minimal , i have one batt at measures as high as 1.77v !
all devices have a wide range input. for reasons
1) AC adaptor rates @ 5v but it need tolerance cuz it fluctrates from 4.6-5.4v
2) batteries start high, ends low, but voltage curve is very stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not only a matter of saving time, it's just nice to make your own. It gives pleasure . And some excitement for the risk of blowing an expensive phone .
kilrah said:
There are more than enough commercial, regulated packs either for AA batteries or with integrated li-ion batteries, for many budgets, to lose time making one yourself IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GeitjeG said:
It's not only a matter of saving time, it's just nice to make your own. It gives pleasure . And some excitement for the risk of blowing an expensive phone .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If youre into making it yourself,
there's this site:
http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/
there are detailed instructions and design schematics
+ the parts list.
It would be more complex than using a simple 4 AA battery case connected to a usb plug, but considering that without a voltage regulator wou would be limited to rechargable batteries (since 4 regular AAs would give too high voltage), and considering saving the weight and size of 2 more AAs . . .
Anyway -
give it a look.
(PS - I found this site some time ago, I do not own it, and do not have any connection to it)
Som30ne said:
If youre into making it yourself,
there's this site:
http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/
there are detailed instructions and design schematics
+ the parts list.
It would be more complex than using a simple 4 AA battery case connected to a usb plug, but considering that without a voltage regulator wou would be limited to rechargable batteries (since 4 regular AAs would give too high voltage), and considering saving the weight and size of 2 more AAs . . .
Anyway -
give it a look.
(PS - I found this site some time ago, I do not own it, and do not have any connection to it)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using 4NiMh rechargeables giving 2800mAh in a clear AA case with USB soldered onto the case terminals with a flying lead and its fine.
"Turns out some devices don't like being charged with a battery pack, usually devices that require special drivers to charge. "
I just cross checked with my electrical enginner friend
he said that different devices hvae different tolerance.
eg, some devices only accept 4.95-5.05v
there is a circuit in all USB devices to stablise the voltage. to suppress/reduce if it's too high, but nothing if it's too low.
purezerg said:
"Turns out some devices don't like being charged with a battery pack, usually devices that require special drivers to charge. "
I just cross checked with my electrical enginner friend
he said that different devices hvae different tolerance.
eg, some devices only accept 4.95-5.05v
there is a circuit in all USB devices to stablise the voltage. to suppress/reduce if it's too high, but nothing if it's too low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard no such thing.
I did see a courious behaviour in some devices,
that needed some voltage on one of the data pins as well in order to start charging.
Connecting these devices to a power supply that fed the power wires only, and didnt put anything on any of the data wires did not charge the devices.
hi mates
why dont you just use 10 recharg.batteries and the circuitry of the original HTC HD2 car charger ? it works like butter&honey for me : )
Right guys, thanks for the input.
After I think it's not worth the risk to build a pack completely myself.
The 3 best options that sound easy and safe to me are:
- Using the car charger circuitry with 10 eek rechargable battteries.
- Buying a cheap one on internet
- Building one using a tried tutorial
GeitjeG said:
Right guys, thanks for the input.
After I think it's not worth the risk to build a pack completely myself.
The 3 best options that sound easy and safe to me are:
- Using the car charger circuitry with 10 eek rechargable battteries.
- Buying a cheap one on internet
- Building one using a tried tutorial
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Choice #1 is obivously undesirable.
Choice #2: Internet ones usually don't have voltage and current protection. For example, the boxwave one I linked to is just a simple charge circuit with no built-in resistors and such.
Choice #3: I would suggest using Mintyboost: http://www.instructables.com/id/MintyBoost!---Small-battery-powered-USB-charger/
purezerg said:
...4AA all connected in serial would be the most ideal. but it only stores very little power. 1.3v x4=5.2v but if your battery is 2500mah, then it's only [email protected]
the higher the voltage the faster it charges. ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AFAIK, the charging speed of the device is a function of current, not voltage. A source that outputs at a maximum of 500mA will charge a device twice as slow as a source that outputs at a maximum of 1A, if it is assumed that the device can take in charge at a current of 1A
This tutorial looks really nice and seems well thought out...!
...
felixdd said:
Choice #3: I would suggest using Mintyboost: http://www.instructables.com/id/MintyBoost!---Small-battery-powered-USB-charger/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...
Hey all,
I've been experimenting with the rear 4-pin connector on the back of the droid 4 (pogo-pins for the inductive charging rear door)
Connected a current limited power supply to Gnd and Vin on the back of my Droid 4 (pin lower right = gnd, pin lower left = Vin) at 5.0V and I had charging occurring at a nice speedy rate. Screen showed charging, amperage was around 1500mA to start scaling down to 1300mA-1100mA as it reached full charge. It seems to pass through the Lithium Ion battery management circuity so appears to be a safe way to dump in lots of power. Obviously these pins are designed to pick up power from the rear inductive charging cover that Motorola produced, but I wanted to try just pure 5.0V power. It appears that it is not bypassing or defeating the battery temp/overcharging safety circuit but of course test at your own will in a safe environment. I personally noted that if the battery was 'warm' the charge rate was reduced to avoid overtemp. Also it would scale down as the on-screen-indicator showed it was reaching full charge.
I’m thinking of grabbing some extra rear covers and making up some drop-in charging stations or alternative inputs (like solar/etc.)
Nice to get away from having to charge on the USB Micro connector which appears to limit charging current and cause wear-and-tear.
This seems like a VERY good thing if someone was building an external battery pack that fit onto the phone (like the one for the iPhone)…you could power it on, charge via this connector, and shut it down whenever you liked. The power draw on the phone drops off massively once it is charged so if you started with a full charge, it could float the battery all the way to empty.
Time to experiment! My first build will likely be a drop-in docking station.
Again, for reference:
Bottom right (when viewing back, camera at the top):
Gnd is Lower Right – Nearest the microUSB connector
Vin is Lower Left – Opposite side from Gnd on the bottom row
Don’t hit it with too much voltage! I limited myself to about 4.8V and 1700mA max. I'd expect over-voltage on these pins could damage the battery management circuity and fry the phone. I was using a good regulated supply with meters.
Cheers,
This is awesome, thanks for this! Might have to play with a cover and done batteries at some point... Please let us all know how your experiments go!
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using xda app-developers app
I like the idea of an expanded battery very useful.
I have a small solar cell + battery to charge my phone by USB already.
That is bad ass. Post some pics of your first prototype
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
Great news, thanks for your time, man.
Just wondering but do you know what the other 2 pins are for?
I got one with a broken usb port for parts and am now wondering if I could use this to build a fix.
Most any (not all) Li-ion battery is rated for at least a 1C charge rate. So with a 1785 mAh Li-ion battery you should be able to safely charge at 1785 mA. The trade off is the faster you charge it the more you reduce overall battery life. For example (not real numbers) if the expected life of the battery is 500 charges (a charge is the amount of current to charge the battery from it's nominal voltage to fully charged and has no correlation to how many times you plug it into a charger) then charging it at 0.75C might increase it's life significantly to 750 to 1000 charges.
Note: the stock wall wart is speced at 850 mA at 5.1 V output (very odd that voltage...).
Brandon314159 said:
Nice to get away from having to charge on the USB Micro connector which appears to limit charging current and cause wear-and-tear.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More likely it's the power supply. Most all PC usb ports put out 500 mA at 5.0 V. Most (USB) wall warts are rated at 1000 mA at 5.0 V.
What has me worried is that the phone appears to overcharge the battery to something like 4.317 V or even 4.351 V... I'm hoping this is just an error in the phone/app voltage reporting, but then again it could just be the way they get that 1785 mAh capacity from the battery. Overcharging the battery in this way could well be safe and would have the effect of increasing it's capacity, but it will significantly reduce it's life as well. You would not expect a Li-ion battery to be charged over 4.2 V and preferably something like 4.17 V
Can you use those pins to directly measure the battery voltage? I was going to measure mine directly to compare with Battery Monitor Widget reporting but decided I didn't want to remove the sticker from the back of the battery and I couldn't get a reading from the push pin contacts.
Quick7135 said:
What has me worried is that the phone appears to overcharge the battery to something like 4.317 V or even 4.351 V... I'm hoping this is just an error in the phone/app voltage reporting, but then again it could just be the way they get that 1785 mAh capacity from the battery. Overcharging the battery in this way could well be safe and would have the effect of increasing it's capacity, but it will significantly reduce it's life as well. You would not expect a Li-ion battery to be charged over 4.2 V and preferably something like 4.17 V
Can you use those pins to directly measure the battery voltage? I was going to measure mine directly to compare with Battery Monitor Widget reporting but decided I didn't want to remove the sticker from the back of the battery and I couldn't get a reading from the push pin contacts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- You cannot use those pins to measure battery voltage as they are an input to the charger... IE they do not tie directly to the battery. You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
- There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
-Also, the other two pins are data lines...not sure if In/out compatible but one is Batt Temp and the other is Communication (for determining battery type). The phone doesn't like having these pins futzed with (can cause reboots/lockups) so there is clearly something on the other end...but sounds like the protection is weak regarding input into the processor/etc.
Once I have my phone near a camera, I will photo my connection method/mods (no direct soldering in-case I have to warranty the phone for other issues). That gave me 6" pigtails of wire that I have hiding behind my cheap-o case right now waiting for proper connections (I exited through the speaker hole on the stock back cover).
Brandon314159 said:
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which mod did this to u? what reason did he give to do that to u? just want to know... cuz that sounds really uncool
myfishbear said:
which mod did this to u? what reason did he give to do that to u? just want to know... cuz that sounds really uncool
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't wanna get anyone in trouble or piss peeps off. PM me if ya want more details.
It was pretty uncool, all things considered.
Oh well, happier here already!
you know what u should add is a resistor and a on/off toggle for safety
Brandon314159 said:
- You cannot use those pins to measure battery voltage as they are an input to the charger... IE they do not tie directly to the battery. You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
- There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
I am curious to see what sort of 'external' packs I can come up with and likely would limit my charging rate to 1200mA or so just to keep things 'happy'. I got slapped pretty hard over at droidforums by an admin and my post removed for this same info...glad to see the community here is more accepting of my discoveries. :cyclops:
-Also, the other two pins are data lines...not sure if In/out compatible but one is Batt Temp and the other is Communication (for determining battery type). The phone doesn't like having these pins futzed with (can cause reboots/lockups) so there is clearly something on the other end...but sounds like the protection is weak regarding input into the processor/etc.
Once I have my phone near a camera, I will photo my connection method/mods (no direct soldering in-case I have to warranty the phone for other issues). That gave me 6" pigtails of wire that I have hiding behind my cheap-o case right now waiting for proper connections (I exited through the speaker hole on the stock back cover).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very excited to see those photos. I can't imagine your post getting removed for that sort of information, that is a shame... Hardware mods are just as much fun as software mods, imho! Plus, they have the added bonus that there is a slight risk of explosion, something I err, enjoy
Brandon314159 said:
- You would have to watch the battery voltage at the screws for the battery flex-cable mount.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Drat. I really didn't want to peal off the sticker... heh, maybe I could just punch through it with the needle probes and only leave 2 tiny holes .
There are lots of notes about the battery voltage being 'high' by peoples viewpoints. If you search around, someone explains the difference in chemistry that the Droid 4 is using and that it does have a higher Vmax during bulk/absorption charge levels. I believe the summary was that it is a non-issue. They aren't trying to 'cheat' the battery into higher voltage for more cap...it's just simply how that chemistry wants to be charged. You'll have to google around to find it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have done a lot of googling and failed. I'm skeptical that I can't find any "new Li-ion chemistry". The only thing I did find was a pointer to an Anandtech article where the writer said he "heard" they were using a "new Li-ion chemistry" ... with no references or cites. In any event I agree it is mostly a non-issue for most everyone else. I figure they have it all designed for some target duty cycle -- probably about 1 year? maybe 2? Thing is, I plan to keep my phone for 4 or more years like all my past smart phones. The difference this time is that the battery is non-removeable (yes, I know it can be done with tools and some risk). I was hoping to find an app that would interface with the battery management and allow a configurable threshold for the "fully charged" cutoff. With a charging cutoff at about 90% I should be able to triple the life of my battery.
sigh... sorry for the hijack (but there isn't much on the actually battery operation, even around here).
Quick7135 said:
I was hoping to find an app that would interface with the battery management and allow a configurable threshold for the "fully charged" cutoff. With a charging cutoff at about 90% I should be able to triple the life of my battery.
sigh... sorry for the hijack (but there isn't much on the actually battery operation, even around here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
drain the phone and charge it up in charging mode with the stock charger. this will calibrate your battery so it will charge to 100%
myfishbear said:
drain the phone and charge it up in charging mode with the stock charger. this will calibrate your battery so it will charge to 100%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He wants to make it so it ONLY takes charges to 90%, to extend the duty cycle of the battery. Honestly, I would just not worry about it, and replace the battery as necessary.
Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire using xda app-developers app
I put my reply over on this thread that you created, which seems to be more on-topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1856514
Cheers!
podspi said:
He wants to make it so it ONLY takes charges to 90%, to extend the duty cycle of the battery. Honestly, I would just not worry about it, and replace the battery as necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right but I'm not clear on the risks of damage to the hardware when prying out the non-replaceable battery.
Brandon314159 said:
I put my reply over on this thread that you created, which seems to be more on-topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1856514
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. and I do apologize (again) for the interruption here. It won't happen again.
Quick7135 said:
You're probably right but I'm not clear on the risks of damage to the hardware when prying out the non-replaceable battery.
Thanks. and I do apologize (again) for the interruption here. It won't happen again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd think you'd be at higher risk of damage playing with the software/firmware interface that controls battery charging than doing an actual battery swap.
It appears to be pretty easy: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-4-Teardown/7759/1
No worries on cross posting...just figured better to keep it all over there where there is already a few replies on-topic.
Cheers,
BTW noticed today that the phone says "Charging - Connected to an inductive charging mat" when you connect up power to the back.
I will try to get a shot of the connection when I get home.
My USB port broke... would you think this would charge a completely dead battery.. thank you kindly for your time...
update this will charge a completely dead battery... took an OEM charger cut it open used the red and black... worked perfectly...
why do they call it common sense when only a few people have it...
Hi, would a regular charger be better to use vs the turbo charger for the longevity of the battery? Would a regular charger work ok with this phone?
Thanks
pred8er said:
Hi, would a regular charger be better to use vs the turbo charger for the longevity of the battery? Would a regular charger work ok with this phone?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the turbo charger the device gets pretty warm
Hard to say but I don't think the turbo charger would damage the battery since it actually only ships with it. I would be surprised if it is a problem.
The way I understand it is that the turbo charger will step down as the battery reaches a fuller charge.
You can use the turbo charger on older devices without issue as the circuitry will account for this.
joderme said:
The way I understand it is that the turbo charger will step down as the battery reaches a fuller charge.
You can use the turbo charger on older devices without issue as the circuitry will account for this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This
I don't think Qualcomm would design a charger that would speed up the life of a battery because that would give them a bad reputation. I've used the quick charger since I got my Nexus until today because now I use my TYLT qi charger. I have noticed no negative effects of using it, and as stated the chip set is what dictates the charging speed. The chip will not let the battery get too hot assuming the chip is working so I would not worry.
Pilz said:
I don't think Qualcomm would design a charger that would speed up the life of a battery because that would give them a bad reputation. I've used the quick charger since I got my Nexus until today because now I use my TYLT qi charger. I have noticed no negative effects of using it, and as stated the chip set is what dictates the charging speed. The chip will not let the battery get too hot assuming the chip is working so I would not worry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also forgot that if the battery gets too hot charging will stop as Pilz mentioned above. I have seen this before on my SGS5 with wireless charging as it can generate a good amount of heat. I would imagine the Nexus 6 is the same.
Okay. A quick lesson on chargers may be in order.
What you'd consider a regular 2A charger, is actually a "Quick Charge 1.0" charger, which charges at 5V @ 2A, for a total of 10W of power. A Quick Charge 2.0 charger, which Motorola calls a "Turbo Charger" charges at 5V, 9V, and/or 12V @ up to 3A each, for a total of 15, 27, of 36W respectively. Thus, in theory, a QC2.0 could charge up to (almost) 75% faster than a QC 1.0 charger. That's where that number that's being touted around comes from. The reality, so far though, is far different.
The Moto charger does actually charge at all three voltages (whereas most QC 2.0 charger only seem to charge at 5V and 9V), but it charges @ 1.6A in 5V mode (8W), 1.6A in 9V mode (14.4W), and 1.2A in 12V mode (14.4W). Thus, in the top two modes, it charges at just under the equivalent of a 3A "normal" (QC 1.0) charger, then drops down to about 80% of a standard 2A charger when the battery gets close to full.
With more power (watts) comes more heat, so yes, the battery does appear to get a lot warmer than with your normal charger. However, it's still well within the "normal" range that your battery was designed to handle. It may feel warm (or even hot) to you, but trust me, your battery is fine. In fact, there are safeguards in place to protect your battery. If you battery ever gets too hot, your phone will shut down and stop charging altogether. Some owners of a Tylt Vu can attest, since that particular charger has a reputation of wireless charging problems that caused the phones' safeguards to kick in. You should know though, that by the time that safeguard even kicks in, the phone will become MUCH too hot to touch. If you THINK that the phone is too hot, then it isn't. Believe me, the blisters on your fingers will let you know when a battery REALLY reaches a dangerous temperature. If you're able to hold onto the phone for more than a few seconds, then the battery is certainly not in any danger.
In a normal QC 2.0 charger, will that small amount of excess heat reduce the life of your battery? Technically, yes, but the same can be said about charging it with that 2A charger, vs. the 500mA USB port on your computer. It may reduce the life by a month or so, and still last more than double the 1 or 2 years that you're likely to own your phone. In short, don't worry about it. Your battery will likely still last MUCH longer than you'll need it.
Thnx for all the input!
jt3 said:
Okay. A quick lesson on chargers may be in order.
What you'd consider a regular 2A charger, is actually a "Quick Charge 1.0" charger, which charges at 5V @ 2A, for a total of 10W of power. A Quick Charge 2.0 charger, which Motorola calls a "Turbo Charger" charges at 5V, 9V, and/or 12V @ up to 3A each, for a total of 15, 27, of 36W respectively. Thus, in theory, a QC2.0 could charge up to (almost) 75% faster than a QC 1.0 charger. That's where that number that's being touted around comes from. The reality, so far though, is far different.
The Moto charger does actually charge at all three voltages (whereas most QC 2.0 charger only seem to charge at 5V and 9V), but it charges @ 1.6A in 5V mode (8W), 1.6A in 9V mode (14.4W), and 1.2A in 12V mode (14.4W). Thus, in the top two modes, it charges at just under the equivalent of a 3A "normal" (QC 1.0) charger, then drops down to about 80% of a standard 2A charger when the battery gets close to full.
With more power (watts) comes more heat, so yes, the battery does appear to get a lot warmer than with your normal charger. However, it's still well within the "normal" range that your battery was designed to handle. It may feel warm (or even hot) to you, but trust me, your battery is fine. In fact, there are safeguards in place to protect your battery. If you battery ever gets too hot, your phone will shut down and stop charging altogether. Some owners of a Tylt Vu can attest, since that particular charger has a reputation of wireless charging problems that caused the phones' safeguards to kick in. You should know though, that by the time that safeguard even kicks in, the phone will become MUCH too hot to touch. If you THINK that the phone is too hot, then it isn't. Believe me, the blisters on your fingers will let you know when a battery REALLY reaches a dangerous temperature. If you're able to hold onto the phone for more than a few seconds, then the battery is certainly not in any danger.
In a normal QC 2.0 charger, will that small amount of excess heat reduce the life of your battery? Technically, yes, but the same can be said about charging it with that 2A charger, vs. the 500mA USB port on your computer. It may reduce the life by a month or so, and still last more than double the 1 or 2 years that you're likely to own your phone. In short, don't worry about it. Your battery will likely still last MUCH longer than you'll need it.
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Very nice, thanks for this :good:
@jt3 Thanks for the explanation. I would think the voltage somehow plays a part in this, right? As you pointed out, if you look at straight watts, our Quickcharger is only putting out 44% more power versus a last gen phone. Also, since our charger supports both 9v and 12v at 14.4W, that further points to the idea that voltage plays a part here. I would assume it affects the efficiency of the charge? Otherwise why not just build this with 5v and 3 or 4 amps?
TheSopranos16 said:
@jt3 Thanks for the explanation. I would think the voltage somehow plays a part in this, right? As you pointed out, if you look at straight watts, our Quickcharger is only putting out 44% more power versus a last gen phone. Also, since our charger supports both 9v and 12v at 14.4W, that further points to the idea that voltage plays a part here. I would assume it affects the efficiency of the charge? Otherwise why not just build this with 5v and 3 or 4 amps?
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Yes and no. The reason for changing the voltage instead of the current has to do with something called Joule Heating, and if you thought my last post was technical and complicated, you just dropped down the rabbit hole.
Think of it like a garden hose. Voltage would be the diameter of the hose. Current would be the rate in which water flowed through the hose. If, say, you wanted to fill your dog's water bowl, and for some insane reason, you want it to take exactly 30 seconds to do so. You could either get a larger diameter hose, and turn down the flow of water, or get a smaller diameter hose and turn up the flow. In the end, the dog's bowl gets filled in the same amount of time. (Electrical Engineers will likely gripe and say that the diameter of the hose is more accurately Resistance, rather than Voltage. Yeah, well... shut up! This is my story! Seriously, I'm being a bit inaccurate, but it makes it easier to picture this way.)
Same thing here. By cranking up the voltage (volts), they can turn down the current (amps) to achieve the same power (watts). In the case of the 12V vs. 9V on the Turbo Charger, it's the same exact power, which doesn't seem to make sense, and furthermore (as you said), why not just keep it 5V and raise current to 3A, since that's also (more or less) the same amount of power? Okay, remember that dog bowl? what happens when you really crank the water flow and point it toward that dog bowl? It splatters, and because of this, a measurable amount of water actually ends up outside of the bowl -- wasted. Same thing here. By cranking up the current, you lose more in the form of heat. By dialing that down (but keeping the power the same, by raising the voltage), you can reduce the heat generation at the same power level.
So... The "tl;dr" of it all is that a 12V charger, pushing (around) 15W of power generates less heat than that 5V, 3A charger would, even though the power is the same. The heat generated isn't huge at these small numbers, but we're talking REALLY confined spaces, with no fans or really any form of ventilation. A few degrees here and there can really make a difference.
For you who use AccuBattery app to monitor your battery usage, can you share yours?
Because mine is showing my battery health is only 47%. I think it's maybe, just maybe, the app only read half of the battery capacity. Since this phone is actually have two batteries installed in a single pack of battery.
With this phone I got around 6 hours of screen on time with 70% battery usage (from 90 - 20%).
It's normal SOT for this phone right?
I attached my SS from the app. I use version 1.2.7-2 build 45.
Yeah yours are pretty normal. I have a similar results.
Maybe the 50 watt charging is degrading the battery at a rapid pace,
Maybe this app is not very accurate.
I've seen others complaining about this app with other phones but hopefully here it's just estimating one of the two batteries
andrejd1 said:
Yeah yours are pretty normal. I have a similar results.
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Thanks for sharing. We have the same battery performance.
manus31 said:
Maybe the 50 watt charging is degrading the battery at a rapid pace,
Maybe this app is not very accurate.
I've seen others complaining about this app with other phones but hopefully here it's just estimating one of the two batteries
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Pretty sure it's not because the rapid charging, if so the phone is a disaster.
The app is most possible reason.
smart_thingup said:
Thanks for sharing. We have the same battery performance.
Pretty sure it's not because the rapid charging, if so the phone is a disaster.
The app is most possible reason.
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Here's hoping,I'm getting mine next week and I'm already very skeptical of the vooc charging,I've seen nothing from Realme or Oppo in regards to it's testing or how it affects the degradation of battery.Because of this and I want the battery to last a few years I will be charging with a 18w charger,using the vooc charger occasionally
manus31 said:
Here's hoping,I'm getting mine next week and I'm already very skeptical of the vooc charging,I've seen nothing from Realme or Oppo in regards to it's testing or how it affects the degradation of battery.Because of this and I want the battery to last a few years I will be charging with a 18w charger,using the vooc charger occasionally
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At first I also skeptical about the Super VOOC charging, I think it will damage battery faster, especially because of heat while charging.
And then, turns out to be more make sense because it use dual battery. And with my experience using this phone, there's no heat problem while charging. Not from the hand feel and not from the system temparature reading.
Since the charging is super fast, I usually put the phone at idle for about 5 minutes to cool down the phone before charging and put on airplane mode while charging to prevent over hear and keep the battery as cool as possible. After several try different circumstances of charging condition, I think Super VOOC is doing just fine.
smart_thingup said:
At first I also skeptical about the Super VOOC charging, I think it will damage battery faster, especially because of heat while charging.
And then, turns out to be more make sense because it use dual battery. And with my experience using this phone, there's no heat problem while charging. Not from the hand feel and not from the system temparature reading.
Since the charging is super fast, I usually put the phone at idle for about 5 minutes to cool down the phone before charging and put on airplane mode while charging to prevent over hear and keep the battery as cool as possible. After several try different circumstances of charging condition, I think Super VOOC is doing just fine.
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I'm sure it's safe and all very good but I still think it will be too difficult to maintain the battery and make it last a few years. I like to keep the battery between around 40 to 85 and it's not recommend to fully charge modern phone batteries aswell as not fully draining them,there is only so many cycles for the batteries lifetime,around 500 or so,
here we have two batteries but still that does not matter,
I will be using in and around 18w charger but might try my OnePlus charger to see if that is any quicker to find a happy medium
manus31 said:
I'm sure it's safe and all very good but I still think it will be too difficult to maintain the battery and make it last a few years. I like to keep the battery between around 40 to 85 and it's not recommend to fully charge modern phone batteries aswell as not fully draining them,there is only so many cycles for the batteries lifetime,around 500 or so,
here we have two batteries but still that does not matter,
I will be using in and around 18w charger but might try my OnePlus charger to see if that is any quicker to find a happy medium
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OnePlus charger will give you VOOC charging. I think that will suit you.
smart_thingup said:
OnePlus charger will give you VOOC charging. I think that will suit you.
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Yes should give around 27 to 30 watt charge,that would be perfect.Wil test it and see,getting phone tomorrow according to my national post
manus31 said:
Yes should give around 27 to 30 watt charge,that would be perfect.Wil test it and see,getting phone tomorrow according to my national post
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Got phone today,the 50 watt charge is lightning fast,
My OnePlus 6T charger is also lightning,think it's about 27w charger. My 6T battery must have a problem as the charging has slowed over time on that. I'm only noticing again how fast the dash charger is on the X2 pro
Have been using Accubattery for few days now and have similar stats to you guys,48% battery health and estimated capacity of 1913mAh,
Maybe Accubattery can improve the software for these type of phones which have two separate batteries
have the same result. maybe an update with the app can result in a more accurate reading.
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard, 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
danypava said:
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard, 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
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I was a bit apprehensive about the super vooc at the start but I've only ever used it since I got the phone. I will say it's so much more useful for my use a d I can literally charge it twice a day for 10 to 15 minutes each time.Phone does heat up quite a bit though,like it's warm every time I take it off the charge.
I'm just hoping it will be as quick this time next year and the battery holds out
danypava said:
Guys it's normal, this phone has a battery made of 2 1950mAh cells that charge in parallel. This means that Accubattery (which reads the stats based on voltage and current) can only read a single cell charge.
I also read some strange comments here, so let's dismantle a myth: SuperVOOC WON'T damage your battery much more than normal fast charging. *1 Having 50W on a single battery would be absurd, instead this power is distributed between the two cells, resulting in a charge of 5V and 5A per cell (pretty standard,*2 5V is super safe because it's the same as the cell voltage, and current is similar to other manufacturer quick charge currents). Having 5V input is also better for heat, because it doesn't need conversion (see Qualcomm Quickcharge which can input 5/9/12/15V).
Of course *3 heat is the worst enemy of a battery life, but try not to use it while charging for those 25/30mins needed for a full charge and you'll be good to go.
I hope this clarifies things for people scared of using the boxed charger.
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*1 - could you elaborate on this here a tad bit more? What is the advantage of pumping power into two cells with total capacity of 4A/h put next to running a single cell with the same amount of power, with the cell being 4A/h too?
*2
This is simply not true. Mass production liPo cells are manufactured with 3.7V nominal voltage, 3V min. voltage and 4.2V max. voltage. When discharging a li-po cell your under-load voltage wouldn't zap anywhere outside the range of 3 - 4.2 volts at any point. If it did you would be saying ciao to that cell in the upcoming month.
According to what Ive learned past the last 12years of dealing with LiPos in my radio controlled aircrafts and, cell phones, smartphones, battery banks and so on and so on.. I am yet to see a mass production lithium cell whose "cell voltage" is 5 volts..? Sooo.. where do you get that from?
Do you have the kind of information that I am struggling to find on the inet right now? Such as who is the outsourced manufacturer of cells for realme? What is the grouping method of the two cells in our x2pro when charging - parallel or series?
The answer on the later two questions will paint it all as to what can we expect from the battery in our phones for the forseeable future.
*3
Heat is the result of charging and discharging the cell at higher than usually considered healthy charging and discharging rates. As far as Im concerned I don't think that realme are in possession of any advanced battery tech, and would be much more oriented towards trustworthy tested day in-day out type of chemistry in their batteries. Specially at the price point of my x2pro.
Taking into consideration that I can only conclude that realme are driving these cells at their maximum tolerance of charging current. I would be pretty entertained if the juice in this device is satisfactory past the 2 year mark. And shocked at the same time.
This has been spoke about before by oppo themselves and is available on the internet, it's 2x batteries at 2000mah each... The batteries are charged at the same time but independently and each battery is monitored at all times for heat etc... Total voltage is split between both to not apply to much pressure and as the batteries are 2000mah each it's obviously Parallel as you get total 4000mah.
Realme x2 pro has two batteries
Hey guys hope you are aware that realme x2 pro has 2 batteries of approximately 2000mah each and not one single 4000mah battery. That is what gives it the charging speed and the battery health is not affected because of the ingenious way VOOC works. You can watch the video on youtube. AccuBattery is not designed for phones with two batteries. Maybe we can expect compatibility for realme x2 pro in a future update.
Ab97 said:
Hey guys hope you are aware that realme x2 pro has 2 batteries of approximately 2000mah each and not one single 4000mah battery. That is what gives it the charging speed and the battery health is not affected because of the ingenious way VOOC works. You can watch the video on youtube. AccuBattery is not designed for phones with two batteries. Maybe we can expect compatibility for realme x2 pro in a future update.
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Just declare it as 2000 mAh and you're good.