This getting a bit ridiculous, thie thread titled "How to pick a new ROM and Radio?" may have been redundant but it got some very good replies, stuff that I have over looked that i could use on my Kaiser like the Google gps and the Skyfire browser software , two pieces of info that I have missed seeing on this forum, to whick I have tried all because someone asked a basic question .
There is a lot very very good info that is here, but sometimes they are often buried long before a lot of users get to see them..
So why not allow some of them to continue and NOT edited out the info that is given in them
So what that a question has been asked many times over, this is the general forum for the device.... and is look at by a lot of new users.
Or how about just creating a newbie threads where it is allowed to ask often repeat question..... I think you were abit to quick in posting you fancy threaded closed picture...
and if you look at a some of the Rom threads here, some are very long 200 to 400 replies with very redundant answers like Oh what grweat looking rom, or I can not wait to try it...with alot of pat on the back answers....compared to the thread I spoke about which had some great info it till someone removed the info...
F2504x4 said:
This getting a bit ridiculous, thie thread titled "How to pick a new ROM and Radio?" may have been redundant but it got some very good replies, stuff that I have over looked that i could use on my Kaiser like the Google gps and the Skyfire browser software , two pieces of info that I have missed seeing on this forum, to whick I have tried all because someone asked a basic question .
There is a lot very very good info that is here, but sometimes they are often buried long before a lot of users get to see them..
So why not allow some of them to continue and NOT edited out the info that is given in them
So what that a question has been asked many times over, this is the general forum for the device.... and is look at by a lot of new users.
Or how about just creating a newbie threads where it is allowed to ask often repeat question..... I think you were abit to quick in posting you fancy threaded closed picture...
and if you look at a some of the Rom threads here, some are very long 200 to 400 replies with very redundant answers like Oh what grweat looking rom, or I can not wait to try it...with alot of pat on the back answers....compared to the thread I spoke about which had some great info it till someone removed the info...
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Simple answer:
Because this is a developers forum, the rules are clear (though i doubt any of the offenders actually read them) that you should READ (which few do), SEARCH (which even fewer do) and post in an EXISTING thread (if only). Why should we change the rules of the forum just because nobody bothers to read them?
FWIW, mocking a mod will not get you anywhere...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=377
First off I was not mocking you just the picture used , it is kinda over board
IMO
Second off most sites that have stickies or read firsts or what ever they are called are ignored, very common problem and one that will never go away...sorry but that is true, i deal with the same issue on a couple of sites i admin...
As to the threads, that is what a general forum is for....Place to ask questions, that is also how a site grows as new members post and ask questions...even if its the same one over and over again.. Newbies do learn as they get more info.
I try to be as helpful to newbies as possible as I learn more and more,and share what i have learned , that is my way of giving back to a site,
and the same thing happens as the newcomer understands how and where to find the info that they are looking for, I just replied to a couple more. without putting them down btw, I just steered them to where they can find the info.... but at the same time , like I said before I learned something just by a often asked question getting some good replies , what is wrong with that ?
Why not let some of these threads run there course for a few days then lock them while leaving the info in them ? its a win win scenario, it will help cut down on these threads at the same time continuing to help the newcomers learn about there devices and this site..
The plus side to this is more money a site will make by the amount of traffic it gets from threads that are created....and also the possibility of them clicking the ads.. just a thought...
F2504x4 said:
First off I was not mocking you just the picture used , it is kinda over board
IMO
Second off most sites that have stickies or read firsts or what ever they are called are ignored, very common problem and one that will never go away...sorry but that is true, i deal with the same issue on a couple of sites i admin...
As to the threads, that is what a general forum is for....Place to ask questions, that is also how a site grows as new members post and ask questions...even if its the same one over and over again.. Newbies do learn as they get more info.
I try to be as helpful to newbies as possible as I learn more and more,and share what i have learned , that is my way of giving back to a site,
and the same thing happens as the newcomer understands how and where to find the info that they are looking for, I just replied to a couple more. without putting them down btw, I just steered them to where they can find the info.... but at the same time , like I said before I learned something just by a often asked question getting some good replies , what is wrong with that ?
Why not let some of these threads run there course for a few days then lock them while leaving the info in them ? its a win win scenario, it will help cut down on these threads at the same time continuing to help the newcomers learn about there devices and this site..
The plus side to this is more money a site will make by the amount of traffic it gets from threads that are created....and also the possibility of them clicking the ads.. just a thought...
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I will concede to you that the idea of a new member thread where they can ask anything and everything as many times as they want without fear of being flamed is somewhat appealing. I think maybe if it could be stickied at the top so that it's always easy to find would be helpful too. Maybe, just maybe that could possibly cut down on the dozens of redundant threads started every single day.
Well now, i tend to respond to all redundant threads so that it will be easier when some1 searches for it. I.E. finding 10 redundant threads that have the same answer is a lot better then having 10 redundant threads where most of them are just flaming the person for not searching.
But closing a "clutter" thread is probably for the best. Its still accessible by search, and prevents the clutter thread to expand to something stupid. (I.E. 2 pages worth of people posting pics with babies getting fed)
scotchua said:
I will concede to you that the idea of a new member thread where they can ask anything and everything as many times as they want without fear of being flamed is somewhat appealing. I think maybe if it could be stickied at the top so that it's always easy to find would be helpful too. Maybe, just maybe that could possibly cut down on the dozens of redundant threads started every single day.
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Thanks,
you should stop by pirate4x4 , they deal with new jeep owners with with same old same questions by having a flame free zone ie: "Jeep - Non Hardcore"
Flame free Jeep talk about the basics. it helps with keeping them out of the high tech areas..where they will get blasted
Now i know that we cannot have a forum for each device but a thread where there questions can be asked would be great if you and the other mods are willing to test it out.... or maybe a sub forum with-in the Kaiser general forum so that you guys can move these kinds of questions to ?(shrugs shoulders).
i will as well as others will try to help out the best we can..
ekw, good point...
I just think it is better try and help out the newguys in a nice way at first, those with less then 30 or so posts and new join dates....after which they should pick up on how the site works....granted I am still a newb just because of the amount of info on this site and it is a bit hard to try a find it right a way
What's "Cluter" ?
californiarailroader said:
What's "Cluter" ?
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I'm not sure. But If I see It I might have to Close it down.
To the OP:
I appreciate your thoughts and opinions, but the rules here were created for a reason, and they are enforced for a reason.
Believe me there was solid, almost scientific reasons behind the rules created.
The Kasier Forum has come after a long line of Forums, different techniques have been used to control the forums and our way is the way we will continue.
Thanks for your concern but, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
JimmyMcGee said:
I'm not sure. But If I see It I might have to Close it down.
To the OP:
I appreciate your thoughts and opinions, but the rules here were created for a reason, and they are enforced for a reason.
Believe me there was solid, almost scientific reasons behind the rules created.
The Kasier Forum has come after a long line of Forums, different techniques have been used to control the forums and our way is the way we will continue.
Thanks for your concern but, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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Well from my stand point and others that i have read that have similar thoughts , its not working...new threads are still being created and the same old questions are being asked.... so the battle rages on......job security for the staff
so flaming is okay...but redundant questions are not hmmm
"scientific reasons" , that sounds just like the engineers that that i have worked with that have the same results,to which we will kick the plans/designs back to them and then go head make the real world changes that do work....
But engineers and scientist's pretty much think alike(very difficult to get them to think outside the box) unless you find one that has mechanic's hands, then you keep him close at hand....
(sorry I am not trying to be sarcastic in this response ) <---just stating a view point..
You only see it with mods cleaning it up. You think its out of hand now. It would be more out of hand is if we weren't here.
We work hard behind the curtain trying to make this place enjoyable and readable to everyone. Even with the threats on our person and families, even with the bad attitudes, even with people thinking their way is better. But the mods push on.
Why? Because we want this place to be informative and enjoyable to everyone.
Side Note: I say that, not because I'm searching for thanks and gratitude towards me and the other mods. Just wanting to shed a little light as to why us mods do what we do. Because, like you members, we love tweaking our phones.
And to answer your question. No Flaming is NOT tolerated, but us mods can't be everywhere. You can always Report a trouble thread to us. Just click the "
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
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"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
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" to report a thread.
i'm a relatively new member of these forums and i would tend to agree with the mods...
the rules ARE crystal clear...the search DOES work...and when the mods say there are scientific reasons behind the rules, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the reasons
the flame free zone sounds like a nice idea but i fear it will just spoil the members (old and new alike) in a way that everyone can potentially end up posting and MAYBE getting answers in the flame free zone whereas most of their queries will DEFINITELY be answered MOST of the time from the wiki and by searching the existing threads
with personalized threads about already covered issues that seem to crave member-specific attention, the forum becomes less of a forum and more of a consultancy service...
being a new member myself, i don't think i have had to start any of my own threads so far...i was really really tempted to do so, especially with regards to which radio is good for me here in pakistan...but just by searching and reading a couple of threads, i quickly got a very good idea of the variables, constraints, and considerations involved in selecting a radio rom and why everyone says "try out every radio until you find a keeper"...
just my 2 cents...
ASCIIker said:
i'm a relatively new member of these forums and i would tend to agree with the mods...
the rules ARE crystal clear...the search DOES work...and when the mods say there are scientific reasons behind the rules, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the reasons
the flame free zone sounds like a nice idea but i fear it will just spoil the members (old and new alike) in a way that everyone can potentially end up posting and MAYBE getting answers in the flame free zone whereas most of their queries will DEFINITELY be answered MOST of the time from the wiki and by searching the existing threads
with personalized threads about already covered issues that seem to crave member-specific attention, the forum becomes less of a forum and more of a consultancy service...
being a new member myself, i don't think i have had to start any of my own threads so far...i was really really tempted to do so, especially with regards to which radio is good for me here in pakistan...but just by searching and reading a couple of threads, i quickly got a very good idea of the variables, constraints, and considerations involved in selecting a radio rom and why everyone says "try out every radio until you find a keeper"...
just my 2 cents...
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Before I was a mod, I had 1,400 posts and 0 created threads. So it can be done.
scotchua said:
Simple answer:
Because this is a developers forum, the rules are clear (though i doubt any of the offenders actually read them) that you should READ (which few do), SEARCH (which even fewer do) and post in an EXISTING thread (if only). Why should we change the rules of the forum just because nobody bothers to read them?
FWIW, mocking a mod will not get you anywhere...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=377
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With all due respect to the mods, whom I really do admire for their knowledge, dedication to the site and especially their patience. Props to NATF, P1 and Jimmie especially, I have a problem with the anonymous closing of threads.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448207
While I applaud your closing of useless threads and this one was particularly offensive ( I am sure Leo and Dutty and sakajati spend hrs, days and months writing and developing new roms just so that they can be subjectively reviewed by noobs and the uninformed.) , I do think that it is equally troubling to have mods closing threads without an explanation or taking responsibilty. I think this undermines the faith we all have in this site ( to be unbiased and agenda free ) and the faith we have in the mods to administer this site in a way that people feel free to express opinions and exchange thoughts and ideas,unencumbered by personal biases and agendas
The previous thread and many others were closed for obvious reasons, with no explanation really needed, but it may not always be that way. So I think it is important that we know who, and get an explanation no matter how cursory , when a thread is closed.
Just my 2 cents, thanks for listening
JimmyMcGee said:
Believe me there was solid, almost scientific reasons behind the rules created.
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In all honesty, and I'm NOT trying to be "smart" here, could you share a little? If there's a really compelling reason that I'm just missing, I'd be more than happy to keep my trap shut!
I completely understand the idea of trying to keep clutter down and trying not to waste time and bandwidth on flame wars. Nothing wrong with that.
I just think that the lack of any sort of sanctioned ROM comparison information makes it very difficult for beginners to understand the forums. And, honestly, I think it results in more "How I pick ROMs?!" threads than you'd see otherwise. And more work for the mods. And more hurt feelings from newbs, who still have the same question but don't really understand the answer.
It's much easier to tell an offender "Hey, use THIS thread" than it is to tell them, "You can't ask that question," because the latter statement is only going to lead to them asking, "Wait...why?"
I'm all for deleting clutter, but I can't help but feel that some of those "clutter" threads are symptoms of a lack of information about what different ROMs are for.
And, hey, as I mentioned in another thread, I think having a flame-filled, bilious "ROM discussion" thread might be worthwhile if only so mods can point to it as a shining example of why those threads are verboten.
typo said:
In all honesty, and I'm NOT trying to be "smart" here, could you share a little? If there's a really compelling reason that I'm just missing, I'd be more than happy to keep my trap shut!
I completely understand the idea of trying to keep clutter down and trying not to waste time and bandwidth on flame wars. Nothing wrong with that.
I just think that the lack of any sort of sanctioned ROM comparison information makes it very difficult for beginners to understand the forums. And, honestly, I think it results in more "How I pick ROMs?!" threads than you'd see otherwise. And more work for the mods. And more hurt feelings from newbs, who still have the same question but don't really understand the answer.
It's much easier to tell an offender "Hey, use THIS thread" than it is to tell them, "You can't ask that question," because the latter statement is only going to lead to them asking, "Wait...why?"
I'm all for deleting clutter, but I can't help but feel that some of those "clutter" threads are symptoms of a lack of information about what different ROMs are for.
And, hey, as I mentioned in another thread, I think having a flame-filled, bilious "ROM discussion" thread might be worthwhile if only so mods can point to it as a shining example of why those threads are verboten.
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I totally understand what you are saying. And Regardless of what ever the Community does, you will have people who refuse to read "READ ME FIRST" or "READ HERE BEFORE POSTING" or "THIS IS THE THREAD WITH THE INFORMATION WE WANT" These are the people who post the "clutter" threads. And when I close a thread I call attention to my signature, if applicable, and the Kaiser Section Guidelines.
Hopefully this leads to people seeing why I closed their thread and alleviates any heard feelings.
I understand the desire to have a detailed explanation for why we close each thread, but to be completely honest, that is not feasible. Most of the threads which are closed are simply a case of people not searching and reading, and as such i suggest they search and read. Think about the amount of time you spend on here each day, then imagine if you had to spend 90% of it reading reported posts, discussing the correct course of action for each situation, closing threads, explaining your decisions to the people who caused the problem in the first place because they didn't read the guidelines in the first place.
Every moderator here is simply trying to do the best they can to keep this place cleaned up with the dozens of redundant threads posted in each forum every day, and the spam, the users fighting, etc. Plus we are trying to actually enjoy using the site some ourselves, and fix our own problems on our devices. This requires us to actually do some research, reading, and troubleshooting ourselves.
In conclusion, i recommend everyone read the link "What is XDA-Developers all about" before they post anything else. This explains why there is such a fundamental divide between so many of the new users and those who have been around her for awhile. This is a developers site, and not a tech support site. You will find many users, including myself, more than willing to help you, but that is not what the forum is for. As i said in my PM reply to Typo, I will be discussing the idea of a single thread to discuss why different people like certain roms. The major issue with that right now is that the members of this forum typically cannot discuss issues like that without it devolving into fighting. We would love to be able to allow postitive and useful discusssion about roms, and remember, MOST of the time, the problem has NOTHING to do with the moderators, and everything to do with people not reading the rules, or not respecting others.
denco7 said:
With all due respect to the mods, whom I really do admire for their knowledge, dedication to the site and especially their patience. Props to NATF, P1 and Jimmie especially, I have a problem with the anonymous closing of threads.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448207
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Just wanted to point out that my post you quoted was written 2 months before i became a moderator, and that i have always held that opinion, even back in January when i was a 1 post noob who moderators were telling to not post stuff in the wrong place.
I am sorry you disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread, but if you do, that should be handled by PM first before dragging it out into an open discussion. Also, i'm not sure why you find it "offensive" that he would close a thread he found unnecessary. We try to be as fair as possible, and are usually pretty objective. If you feel we made an error in judgement, please, as i said contact us via PM. We really are here to help.
scotchua said:
Just wanted to point out that my post you quoted was written 2 months before i became a moderator, and that i have always held that opinion, even back in January when i was a 1 post noob who moderators were telling to not post stuff in the wrong place.
I am sorry you disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread, but if you do, that should be handled by PM first before dragging it out into an open discussion. Also, i'm not sure why you find it "offensive" that he would close a thread he found unnecessary. We try to be as fair as possible, and are usually pretty objective. If you feel we made an error in judgement, please, as i said contact us via PM. We really are here to help.
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I am sorry that you did not read my post more closely. I did not disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread , I supported it . If you re-read my post , it was the thread that I found offensive and totally agreed it should have been closed, so there was no need to handle it in private. The problem I had was with the anonymous closing of the thread. I feel that anonymous administering of any site, undermines the integrity of the site. Jimmy usually closes the posts with a cursory " redundant " or "against forum posting rules " or " unproductive discussion ".
And for the other reasons I mentioned in my post , I thought that , it was important to be very visible in your closing of threads. Believe me the last thing I want to see is "reviewing" of peoples hard work that they so generously choose to share with the rest of us
I did not know that Jimmy closed the thread, it was just done. Much like the " anonymous administration " , I thought it was important to discuss my thoughts in the open so as not to lead anyone to believe that it was personal.
I have been very pleased with the direction that the forum has taken since you ,Dave, Jimmy, P1, and NATF were appointed mods ,very pleased.
Oh , and I'm sorry if you thought my post was based on your quote, I kind of just pulled your quote out of a hat as a means of restarting " the closing of clutter threads" thread.
denco7 said:
I am sorry that you did not read my post more closely. I did not disagree with Jimmy's decision to close the thread , I supported it . If you re-read my post , it was the thread that I found offensive and totally agreed it should have been closed, so there was no need to handle it in private.
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you are right, i misunderstood you. my apologies. i understand what you are getting at now.
my 2 cents.
Unfortunately not everyone is a developer (like myself) but i am here and have been (hopefully) supplying helpful advice to everyone i respond to, i have a few times responded with the simple answer of "SEARCH!!!" but also i like to but not always like to leave them 2 or 3 links to things i simply searched relating to their problem, just to prove search does work.
Luckily i havent had any urgent, burning questions to where i needed to start a new thread (i dont think) and now am trying to teach myself how to develop software for my mobile (and yours).
So i agree with both sides redundant posts suck, but an anti flame noobs post here thread would be nice. If a question/amswer is good enough move it to the wiki or the main forum. if it's not it stays in the newb forum, also redundant threads could be thrown over there without worries.
-Mike
LOL,
this 'hidden disagreement' is really entertaining!
There is one thing members tend to forget:
This site belongs to the 'makers' of XDA DEVELOPERS. Those guys came up with house rules and general guidlines to keep it the place it was from the beginning: a nice site where you can mod your device, get a different ROM or develop your own. In addition the XDA Makers even added sections where you can get FREE HELP / SUPPORT and other useful information.
All of us 'non-mod's', 'non-Chefs' and 'non-admins' - no matter if JUNIOR or SENIOR member - we are not more but guests! We agreed to the forum rules when we first signed up. This is not our own forum, we are simply members. If the existing structure can't satisfy our needs, well, there are other forums we can join next to this one or we even can set up our own little discussion world somewhere!
Please keep in mind what this place was made for! Also keep in mind that we are nothing but guests on here. As guests we shouldn't complain about the dinner we get!
Even though I can understand that some people have a need to get it 'their way'; I do appreciate the strong and clean line XDA Developers keeps by closing or removing threads! (Yes, it happened to me too that threads were closed or removed! )
Please, guys! Keep smiling! This kind of threads start annoying me more and more - they have not much to do with the KAISER but are still posted in the KAISER section! Again another thread which won't provide helpful information in case someone is searching in the KAISER BOARDS ... !