Rooting is now more troublesome for us users - Nexus 7 General

After alot of research through different sites I have realized that rooting tablets, such as the nexus 7, has been deemed illegal!
This was cited from a website, stated below;
"Can I Root My Tablet?
Not unless the manufacturer specifically allows you to. This is where things kinda start to hit the fan. According to the Librarian, the proposed definition of "tablet" was too ill-defined for the office to be able to expand the exemption. And I quote:
On the other hand, the Register concluded that the record did not support an extension of the exemption to “tablet” devices. The Register found significant merit to the opposition’s concerns that this aspect of the proposed class was broad and ill-defined, as a wide range of devices might be considered “tablets,” notwithstanding the significant distinctions among them in terms of the way they operate, their intended purposes, and the nature of the applications they can accommodate. For example, an ebook reading device might be considered a “tablet,” as might a handheld video game device or a laptop computer.
The main issue, as you can see, is not necessarily that the Register felt that tablets were somehow in a different class of device than smartphones and that consumers had fewer rights. It's that the case being made (chiefly by the EFF a few other consumer-advocacy groups) failed to adequately describe what a "tablet" is. The Library couldn't allow exemptions to the rule without risking more wide-spread effects than it intends.
Before you get upset, keep in mind that being very careful about what language is used in laws is important to our legal system. Overly broad rules can harm citizens in serious ways, so a lack of adequate language is, in principle, a good reason to hold back. However, this also means that a.) the burden is on the EFF to come up with a satisfying proposal to allow the exemption, and b.) we won't be able to look at this issue again until 2015 at the earliest"
I posted this here to ask you tablet users what you think about this bill.
This was quoted from "androidpolice. Com"
Exact link wouldn't copy with GSIII

Arrest me then
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

"Yours sincerely,
The Land of the Free.™"

Not illegal in my country.

If there is no carrier subsidy, then there is no problem.
So you can root a Wifi nexus 7, but possibly not the 3G one (if you got it as part of a deal with a sim card). if you bought it outright, then there is no problem.
It's not hard to understand?

CrazyPeter said:
If there is no carrier subsidy, then there is no problem.
So you can root a Wifi nexus 7, but possibly not the 3G one (if you got it as part of a deal with a sim card). if you bought it outright, then there is no problem.
It's not hard to understand?
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No it has been deemed illegal to root anything classified as a "tablet device"
Look it up... that as well as unlocking sim is now illegal.
In my opinion if we pay two to seven or eight hundred for a device we should be able to make it how we like.

XDA is a world wide forum, so perhaps you might bother to mention what country you are talking about.
I presume you are speaking of the UK, but that's just a guess.
Not that I care; I really don't anticipate the "phone police" bursting through my doors anytime soon. As far as that goes, they'd probably druther my phone/tab was rooted as it should be easier to exploit in that condition.

TCPModding said:
No it has been deemed illegal to root anything classified as a "tablet device"
Look it up... that as well as unlocking sim is now illegal.
In my opinion if we pay two to seven or eight hundred for a device we should be able to make it how we like.
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Explain how they'll keep 'tablets' running Win 7, Win 8 or Linux from having 'root' access?
Sent via my Nexus 7, Amiga 3000 or HTC EVO 3D

Going to close this.. it has been well discussed elsewhere..

Related

mac user thread (for the pc rebels!)

well this thread is for anyone who uses a mac and wants to use pocket pc's till the iphone comes out ok?
bdap said:
well this thread is for anyone who uses a mac and wants to use pocket pc's till the iphone comes out ok?
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this thread was guaranteed to fail seeing as your promoting the iPhone, when we have so many sleepless nights trying to prove they're not as good as Pocket PCs.
but seeing as i kno i'm talkin to a Mac user, i wanna ask a couple of qus lol. i'm getting one as a leaving school present and can u flash roms on them? are they tweakable? what limitations do they have with hardware you can put in...ie hard drives, flash drives, feature phones etc.
thanks for your time
basically with the iphone you can do sweet FA. not even 3rd party apps can be used, only what comes with the phone. this + low screen resolution + poor battery + No 3G means i would NEVER consider get one.
Midget_1990 said:
basically with the iphone you can do sweet FA. not even 3rd party apps can be used, only what comes with the phone. this + low screen resolution + poor battery + No 3G means i would NEVER consider get one.
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lol - i those 'hello, I'm a mac, and I'm a pc...' ads we have (in the uk at least) i hate that everything they say is backwards, and mac claim to be perfect for everyone 'out of the box'. what i love about pcs and ppcs is being able to make them work how i want
I can't believe the excuse for making it a closed system. "Third party apps will crash phone networks", I have tried to do things I shouldn't on networks and they don't crash so easy!
No 3g, why not throw in a nickel cadmium battery and make it really prehistoric?
Pocket PC has an image problem, regular people think it crashes. From my extensive use, it is very stable and any bugs normally get fixed because it is so open. IPone will be a flash in the pan. This is no ipod, there is real competition in the mobile computing market and it will not be so easy to dominate.
well, i for one am happy thats a closed system, no f*king arround so it wont get messed up. aslong it simply works its fine for me. and the thing itself is more appealing to me then the pda's, stupid windows has flaws all over the place.
xixis said:
well, i for one am happy thats a closed system, no f*king arround so it wont get messed up. aslong it simply works its fine for me. and the thing itself is more appealing to me then the pda's, stupid windows has flaws all over the place.
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maybe xda-developers isnt really the place for you then also about windows having flaws, you saying mac doesnt? lol
how to flash on a mac?
I just moved and can not find the cords for my PC so I am having to use my wifes ibook for the next month until we move into our house.
Has anyone had any sucess flashing on a mac. I know there are tool out there to run PC programs but thought that somebody would have writen a guide but can not find it searching... Thanks for reading
xixis said:
well, i for one am happy thats a closed system, no f*king arround so it wont get messed up. aslong it simply works its fine for me. and the thing itself is more appealing to me then the pda's, stupid windows has flaws all over the place.
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Hhaha.. it is like saying, "I'm happy that I do not have admins right to my PC, because I dont want to mess it", or "I'm happy that my car bonnet is locked so that I won't mess up the car". If you think you need to pay $$$$ to child-proof yourself from your own phone, go ahead. If you are on a budget, get yourself a Motorola MOTOFONE F3, it is close system.
ps: PPC phone works fine, it causes problems when people mess it up.
Ahhhhhhhhh, here people go again - Mac this, Windows that- it like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Ford Fiesta.
AFAIK most UK networks (at the moment) will not have the iPhone due to the price apple want for them £400+, lets see what happens at the time of Euro launch in late December of even early next year.
I certainly will not be purchasing one from the first edition even being a mac fan. My PPC works just fine with my Mac and my PC.
Its not about windows v mac. Its about why people can't admit that the iphone is crippled with poor features from day one. My Dopod D810 can perform every function available in the entire spectrum of mobile computing and in a fast reliable way over a 800kbs 3g hsdpa connection. Simultaneously.
I do about 250 mb of surfing a month on the phone and another 250 mb of surfing using my phone as a modem for my tablet. I don't think an iphone would be able to transfer 500 mb in a month even if I was willing to put up with the slow speed of non 3g networks.
I challenge any one to find a feature that the d810 can't perform. It is easy to find features lacking in the iphone because it has almost none. Apple are trying to sell a new software platform, and its the software that apple-ites are going to be paying $450usd on subsidy or $950USd outright for.
The iphone would have been a state of the art phone - 5 years ago.
Midget_1990 said:
maybe xda-developers isnt really the place for you then also about windows having flaws, you saying mac doesnt? lol
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It has less
But of course, Mac users get the best of both worlds. Currently I'm using an iMac 24" for scanning, and my Ameo is hooked up to ActiveSync under XP Pro SP2; I can see the ActiveSync window, explore the device, etc, whilst I am using Mac apps, seamlessly.
Parallels in Coherence mode means I don't need to switch screens, let alone put up with a smaller window, or reboot.
IMO Mac OS X is the BEST desktop OS, and part of the stability is due to the relatively limited range of hardware that Apple has to support - they know exactly what computer it will run on, and make sure it is stable. All this "building your own PC" malarky is fine, and made a lot of sense when Apple machines were lagging seriously in the hardware stakes (1998, and I'd argue just prior to the release of Intel Macs, especially the lower end stuff like the Mac Mini) and couldn't really use the Pre-Windows '95 argument that for a newbie, the system was easier to use.
However, I also rather like Windows Mobile. The lack of integration/support drives me mad; Missing Sync only goes so far (it can't even sync the Nickname field, FFS - and that's supported in WM5 AND Apple Address Book as a default, not custom, tag). I've always found it necessary to keep a PC around for a few small tasks:
ActiveSync, and applications which need a PC to run the installer.
Running tools that do things like creating a floppy from an image for an old computer (like STs, QLs, that sort of thing)
I theoretically still can't write floppies, but that needs an older PC anyway; most of the newer ones have hardware that is utterly useless for this purpose.
Other than that, Mac does it all, and if you go by "what's in the box" for a Mac system, you get much better software - like GarageBand, iMovie HD, etc. Basically for a Mac to be useful for me, all I need to do is add Adobe Creative Suite and I'm sorted. And of course, I don't need to muck about making the colour calibration work
As developers for WM, I'm sure the Mac is utterly useless to you anyway. Though many "developers" rather like the environment and tools Apple give you with every Mac system
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
I challenge any one to find a feature that the d810 can't perform. It is easy to find features lacking in the iphone because it has almost none. Apple are trying to sell a new software platform, and its the software that apple-ites are going to be paying $450usd on subsidy or $950USd outright for.
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Where are you getting those prices? Apple has stated repeatedly that the iPhone has a retail price. No subsidies. The retail price is $499 or something along those lines.
Personally, I will get an iPhone if it works well as a phone. As a PDA, it lacks a keyboard and 3G connectivity. My Ameo is better.
I Run OSX and Server 2003 on my PC so by no means am I a die-hard windows fan, but neither am i for Mac, they both have their perks and flaws. I do think the Iphone will be crap though xD
Midget_1990 said:
I Run OSX and Server 2003 on my PC so by no means am I a die-hard windows fan, but neither am i for Mac, they both have their perks and flaws. I do think the Iphone will be crap though xD
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I agree, for some reason it does not excite me. maybe with the next update it would be better. No question though I would buy one later in a year or two after I upgraded my MBP to the new magnetized (not one of those hook models) and an easily upgradeable hard drives and a better battery design. Maybe a brighter 2nd or 3rd gen led display with quad core intel processor with a huge SSD drives
i heard it on the last edition of mac break weekly. Download the podcast at twit.tv
It's a rumour.
Apple has, repeatedly, said two things about iPhone:
It will be $499 and $599
It does NOT adhere to the standard subsidy model. It's not an overpriced $500 N73 with massive discounting to the operator/kickbacks from the operator.
Therefore, AT&Ts contract terms will more reflect the demand for the iPhone.
It will probably not be available without a contract. Cingular/AT&T will be banking on this device to gain them subscribers through sheer demand. The European model may well be different, but since the current suggestions from firms like iSuppli is that the BOM for the iPhone runs to a tad under $240, the 50% margin already applying and Apple's established market position means that the most likely outcome in the UK will not be a tie in to a single operator, but rather, the operators and resellers (like Carphone Warehouse) will compete on subsidising their contracts in much the same way as they currently do - for example, if you want a rubbish phone from one of the many cuthroat resellers getting £200-500 kickbacks for each contract they provide, they will give you a PS3, or a Nintendo Wii, or an iPod... you get the idea.
The iPhone UK price will most likely be around £329-£449 given our horrific taxation (and the fact that our prices INCLUDE tax at 17.5%), looking at the difference in iPods costs US/UK, and the UK market iPhone will probably be offered unlocked by default as a premium product, with the networks/resellers clamouring to offer it on their tariffs. If they they apply the same marketing model, then the iPhone would cost most users around £99-199, but it depends on what the operators reckon they can get away with.
Bear in mind that the Ameo costs £640 off contract. The Advantage is about £700. When you get it ON contract, it costs £119-400ish depending on the deal you get thanks to the network subsidy - and the stores often have a bit they can use to further reduce the price; they appear to be getting cheaper as you would expect. T-Mobile is doing well; as a result of my getting an Ameo at least four of my small network of friends have either bought or intend to buy one, partially because T-Mobile's data plans are insanely good compared to other UK networks.
Suggesting that the 8MB, non-3G iPhone is going to cost nearly as much as the Advantage off contract is insane, and probably what is known as FUD. Apple are far from stupid about the consumer market, as the success of the iPod, the growing market share of the MacBook/Pro and iMac, and utter dominance of the online music market shows.
You sure put a lot of thought into this. I think it will be sold outright at apple shops for $950. Prove me wrong in a few weeks.
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
You sure put a lot of thought into this. I think it will be sold outright at apple shops for $950. Prove me wrong in a few weeks.
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Sure. $50 says that the iPhone will not be sold for $950 in Apple shops, or indeed, anywhere officially for that sort of money. eBay idiocy does not apply; stories of "an iPhone sold for $1500 on eBay" are not Apple's decision making or pricing.
Look at the iMac. Look at the MacBook.
How much is the MacBook? It's $1099. With dual-core CPUs, WiFi, Bluetooth, HD, 1GB RAM, 13.3" screen, DVD/CDRW drive.
An iMac? $999. For a 17", dual-core, etc...
An 80GB iPod is only $349.
So. If you REALLY believe that the iPhone will ever be sold, retail, for $950, then I'll be happy to take your money. However, I will have to decline if you ever tell me you have any plans for business, because you're clearly not thinking in terms of sound business models for Apple - and I'm thinking that the company with several billion dollars in the bank, no operating debt, stock at a record high, and increasing marketshare, is going to make the right choices - rather than a third-hand rumour from someone silly enough to believe it
And yes, if the iPhone DOES go on sale in the Apple store for $950, I'll give YOU your $50, and despair at the stupidity of Apple's marketing department after nearly six years of them actually getting it (spectaculalrly) right for once
Oh, and just to be absolutely sure, these are US$, in the US market we're talking. No popping up in 2009 saying "Hey, it's HK$950! in Asia!" *grin*.
Midget_1990 said:
I Run OSX and Server 2003 on my PC so by no means am I a die-hard windows fan, but neither am i for Mac, they both have their perks and flaws. I do think the Iphone will be crap though xD
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I don't think the iPhone will be crap, I just don't think it will be compelling to anyone aufait with HTC's products. For the N95 crowd, I'm sure it will be very exciting indeed, and with good reason, but WE know that these things can be done better.
Internet in my pocket? Pah! I was doing that with my Clié UX50 in 2004 "Blogging" on the road in Canada with the built in camera. And that was "backwards" tech, IMO, there were better solutions out there. The Ameo has proper internet browsing/full net experience in a mobile phone, and frankly, in terms of that useage it's hardly moved the game on from the Universal.
And just to balance out the Mac vs. PC thing a tad more, I'm getting a new computer in the office soon at least for a little while. Apple don't make anything like it.
Dell XPS M2010. It'll be absolutely ideal for running devices like the Hasselblad H31D "on the road" at a professional level, doing presentations, and of course, entertainment (hello, my very own 20" LCD in hotel rooms!).
Windows is a secondary concern, the hardware design is extremely compelling.

B&N to block rooting on future devices?

Was browsing through and saw this thread.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=939589
Went to it and just saw an update at CNET.
"Update: The latest rumor, once again courtesy of Good E-Reader, is that the reason for the temporary unavailability is that Barnes & Noble is in the process of installing an anti-rooting "fix" for the Nook Color because people have been hacking the device to run a custom version of the Android-based firmware. That custom firmware allows users to access and download apps from the Android Marketplace, including competing e-reading apps such as Kindle and Kobo. If a significant percentage of Nook Color buyers are doing this, it presents a problem for Barnes & Noble (Sony doesn't like to talk about it but it had major issues with the PSP being hacked). Good E-Reader cites a "Barnes & Noble source" in mentioning the rumor, but to be clear, we don't know if there's any truth to it or not, and we're not sure how Barnes & Noble would truly be able to lock the device down."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20030475-1.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
Watcha think? Fact or Fiction?
Fiction. The NOOKcolor has WAY too many hardware issues. I went through 4 NC's to get a good screen. My latest works but the USB is near impossible to plug-in. I have to maneuver it so it's plugged in at an angle and then it finally slips in and begins charging. I really believe this is a quiet hardware recall. Even the BN Associate at store told me they rushed these things out because they knew how great the demand was.
Besides, what could they possibly do to stop the rooting of these devices? That would involve a hardware modification. And why would they shoot their golden goose? It's not like it's costing them 3G data, the fact this thing can be a Android Tablet is THEE reason so many are selling. It's not like we're all avid readers.
racks11479 said:
Was browsing through and saw this thread.
Watcha think? Fact or Fiction?
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Are you really this stupid?
The Nook Color can be rooted and Kindle reader can be installed. So let's say a random dude is deciding between a Kindle and a Nook Color. He can get a Kindle and read Kindle books or get a Nook Color, root it, read BN books AND Kindle books. Guess what, BN just got another $249.
AYRTS?
I was thinkin' along the same lines. And from what I've read through the forums. Most people that root their devices end up downloading the B&N Nook Shop app to use anyways.
I gotta admit that it would be really silly for them to lock it down. They have probably made more sales in the fact that it makes such a great inexpensive android tablet alone. To lock it down would kill sales in one major area where they are most likely racking in the most money.
redking79 said:
Are you really this stupid?
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Wow, God forbid he ask other people's opinions. I guess he should rely on the clear headed logical thinking of corporate America. Why don't we all have that level of faith in businesses to do the right thing?
Go take a cold shower.
redking79 said:
Are you really this stupid?
The Nook Color can be rooted and Kindle reader can be installed. So let's say a random dude is deciding between a Kindle and a Nook Color. He can get a Kindle and read Kindle books or get a Nook Color, root it, read BN books AND Kindle books. Guess what, BN just got another $249.
AYRTS?
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Really? If I am coming off as "AYRTS"
Then let me apologize for trying to start a conversation amongst the wonderful community that we have here at XDA. No need to go that route.
But I do appreciate your input. Thank you.
Realistically, how many generic end users, the ACTUAL target audience for an e-reader, is going to root and screw around with the device..? Way less than 1%, probably not even 1/10th of that.......
The people who DO probably bought the device BECAUSE it can be played with which means B+N got more hardware sales.
B+N sells books, they don't have an "App Store" or it's ilk so no revenue stream there and consequently no real financial incentive for the ever futile attempts to stop jail breaking as performed by a certain fruit themed company.
I have rooted and played with my NC AND bought books from B+N and will continue to do so. F*king people like me off is all downside for them.
Now that doesn't mean some suit in Marketing and Sales at B+N with an MBA and a serious coke habit wouldn't get a stiffie by screwing over the buying public.......
everalm said:
B+N sells books, they don't have an "App Store" or it's ilk so no revenue stream there and consequently no real financial incentive for the ever futile attempts to stop jail breaking as performed by a certain fruit themed company.
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B&N actually has plans to start an App Store. So maybe they are concerned about the competition. But still, like you mentioned the number of people who root it are far less than the people who bought an eReader. Hell, I bought the eReader and found out about it's potential later. 95% of people are never going to do anything to it but get the B&N updates.
Source: http://techpinger.com/2010/12/barnes-and-noble-nook-color-app-store-coming-in-early-2011/
Yes, it's a terrible source but I've read it elsewhere too.
On top of that, there's also the question of how much profit they make by selling the eBook reader by itself. And they also don't have to support rooted users.
My whole family pretty much has a nook color. And we all purchased it without knowing the fact that it could be rooted. But after I rooted mine. Everyone wanted theirs rooted as well. I have mine running Nookie Froyo. And I still buy my books from B&N. The rest of my family is on the stock rooted and they love the device that much more. And they too use the B&N shop. They just enjoy the extra features this little device is capable of performing.
As "everalm" put it. "F*king people like me off is all downside for them."
I'll second that notion.
How hard would it be to strap us with eFuze?
Homer
Honestly, it would be in BN's best interest to do this. Having Kindle, Kobo, Amazon, etc.... all on one device with a 7 inch screen is awesome for the consumer and terrible for BN. Plus, when they roll out their app store, they'd have to compete with the Google Marketplace plus any 3rd party sources. They don't want to do this and I can't blame them. Why would you want Amazon competing with you on your own (supposedly proprietary) device?
@ anon
Simple cost/benefit analysis
How many sales are B+N ACTUALLY losing when less than 1% of NC's are rooted AND most of those people are still buying from B+N..?
How much time, effort and energy will B+N have to buy from OTHER people to try and block rooting etc.....?
How often will they then have to do it AGAIN when their blocking gets broken AGAIN...?
Rinse and repeat
Remember B+N make money ON BOOK SALES, their profit on that is waaaaaay higher than some poxy App Store that would never compete with Google Market
All downside, no upside
As I posted in another thread, B&N has a huge problem with NookColor microUSB's and I suspect the factory has made a 'running change' to the microUSB and now has a temporary parts shortage .. eating all those microUSB returns has gotta hurt plus it is creating a potentially large 'refurb' market that will drain new unit sales ... as others have said and other device suppliers have learned, blocking root consumes lots of resources but always fails ... but really who knows what they are doing ..
I want to say this -
For one, i think people are downplaying the "XDA Effect". The rooted NC booting honeycomb didn't just make "geek" news, it made mainstream news, and got ALOT of people interested. I suspect it is easily more than 1%. And of that new interest, very little of it will be in the actual "eReader" portion. Which brings me to my second point..
The hardware in our nook is not cheap people, and we need to understand that. Yes, there are build issues, but lets put that aside, and look at just the hardware. We have:
A 7" 1024x600 IPS screen - This is NOT cheap; can you think of any other device this cheap that has such a high quality screen?
A Ti OMAP3621 CPU
PowerVR SGX530 GPU
8GB Flash ROM
512MB RAM
4000mAh battery
802.11 b/g/n wifi
Quite honestly, this thing easily matches consumer cell phones in specs (Droid incredible, Droid X/2). That may not sound good at first, but keep in mind, the retail on those cell phones is $450-500+... There are very few devices with these specs for this cheap.
Which all of this leads me to think - the hardware itself is a loss leader. B&N is expecting users to buy these, and then buy plenty of books to make their profit. If the numbers of these devices sold keep rising, but no associated B&N book sales come in, i would not be surprised if they feel that they have to do something.
Now, i think they will be making the biggest mistake they could possibly be making IF they did lock it down with an eFuse, as word of mouth from disgruntled buyers is hard to kill. It is easy to look past some build quality issues BECAUSE of just how versatile the device is otherwise. If you take that away, you might find bigger problems....
For some reason I don't see the inventory nor engineering available to fix this issue in 2 weeks.
Do you really think this company has the resources to design / build / deploy and retrofit a hardware solution? With little to no internal or beta testing? In a 2 week timespan? "Hey Mr. chip supplier, I need 2 million of these efuses made for my hardware overnight, I'll pay the additional shipping, kthnx".
Lets say they go the hardware lockout way and they make one tiny mistake this next 2 weeks, suddenly ALL the nooks are dead.
If anything it will be a software solution, making sure they are updating all nooks to a "unrootable" OS that will be promptly hacked by XDA in less then a week.
If anything they will design better hardware lockouts (ala Motorola) for the next generation Nook.
I'm hoping at least, I was waiting on a paycheck at the end of this week to free up enough money to run down to my local B+N and pick up a NC for the explicit reason of running 3.0.
So I've been putting off getting the NC for a while, but if there is ANY chance this could lead to serious setbacks in the rooting process I might be motivated to go get one immediately. And I realize the rationale behind B&N NOT trying to block root access, but I know first hand how little rationality goes into some of these major corporate decisions.
I might at least grab one, then keep an eye out for news during the 14-day return period. If there's a major fix or break that might help me decide whether or not to exchange or keep.
Thoughts?
Re: BN blocking rooting - This is a good thought but i'd say people who root probably make up < 5% of nc buyers
As to whether they will fix the hw - very unlikely they will physically change 100k let alone 500k units located in mmany different locations
I think the hold is to wait until some sotware is ready they can push as people turn on their nc for the first time
Miht it be some tie in between the market and the bn shop? Would make sense they get a cut of items sold on the market usin their device rooted or not
You do realize that nothing says they have to retrofit all the old devices in two weeks right? ***IF*** they were planning on something like this, it is possible it has been in the pipes for longer, and that NEW hardware is just replacing the old.
No, i don't believe they are doing this at all, but to say it is impossible is also foolish..

[Q] iPhone 4: CDMA vs. GSM

I know probably most of you folks on here are users of something other than an iPhone, and probably many of you are Android users like me, so this isn't any kind of iPhone vs. Android thing, but just a general thoughts thread.
I'm trying to figure out the bigger picture here about Apple and them introducing a CDMA version of their phone. It's not that "going with Verizon" per se really surprises me, given how big a company Verizon is, but Apple surely had to know in advance that one serious downside of putting out a CDMA product meant no simultaneous telco and data capability, unlike how it is on a GSM network. Ads to this effect have already started appearing by from AT&T, which means the ads were well in the pipeline and so this is clearly something AT&T knew would be the case.
A lot of folks out there have been complaining about Apple basically having a somewhat "unhealthy" relationship (some might call it a "fixation") with AT&T, so here's the thing: given the saturation that the Android platform now has, what is Apple's motivation and secondly, what do you folks think about the situation?
(And no, I'm not looking for a "Well, I wouldn't own an iPhone so I don't care" type of answer.)
Obviously, more Android devices selling in the last fiscal quarter has a huge big fat part of of the reason.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
It's probably as simple as having their product on both of the largest carriers in the U.S.
They get a chance to make more money and brainwash more people.
I dunno. It's just that, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, this just really weirds me out.
At least in this sense, GSM is the superior technology (it is in other ways, but that's another matter) and so, at least in this way, AT&T has the better network. It would totally make sense for them to push that. And obviously both AT&T and Apple knew about this kind of limitation (like I said earlier). So, Apple in a way is basically playing AT&T against Verizon. They're still making the whole widget and so this isn't a licensing thing here.
In a number of respects, Android is superior to iOS, and surely the whole EULA model from Google is better than the one from Apple (from the perspective of us end users). Apple isn't changing anything else, but now they are arguably selling a lesser-capable version of the iPhone. Moreover, given their push of the Droid, Verizon is kind of the king of Android phones. There's also a LOT of general information out there and (I think) a number of knowledge-empowered smart phone users out there who, particularly if they're using Android (or are really into Blackberry) aren't going to switch to an iPhone and are even less likely to switch to AT&T to get the somewhat-better version.
I'm just wondering if this is Apple going after AT&T with the leverage they're expecting to be generated through Verizon to get better terms, or perhaps force the issue on coverage issues... I dunno, it's not that I'm into some kind of grand conspiracy theory here; I just think there's more than meets the eye.
I literally think they want to sell as many handsets as possible to make the most amount of money. Could you imagine if they made an iphone compatible with Tmobile 3G how many people would defect to Tmobile because of the plan cost reductions? Maybe if Apple is still working closely with ATT they don't want to introduce a competitive version that has the same GSM technologies, so they decided to go with CDMA because it is a whole different technolgy altogether.
Either way, I don't care and I will never own an apple product. This is the most discussion about Apple I have partaken in to date. Good day.
You're over analyzing this. It really is as simple as Apple wanting to sell more iPhones. Of course having leverage against At&t makes the cream filling better tasting.
As for your Verizon Droid statement, what they're hoping is users without any smartphones will jump on the iPhone. I've seen this personally on a large scale.
Both of my housemates are on Verizon with crappy flip phones. Verizon released the iPhone and they BOTH took the plunge.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I think it is mainly due to Apple being greedy.
A small part of it also is Verizon has a stronger presence in certain states/regions of the country and people that tried iPhones with AT&T left there preferred phone due to poor coverage.
Sent from my GSBv1.7-ERIS using XDA App

I work in tech support for a major US carrier...Wow some people...

Does anyone else here work in the technical support or any cellular related fields whether it's retail or customer service? Some people are really freaking ignorant of the technology or absolutely stubborn when it comes to how phones and service works. I am tired of people demanding a new phone when every little thing happens. Does a car dealership replace your current car with a new one when it's under warranty? No they fix the problem with the car. It's not my fault you moved and you don't have coverage at your new house. When you got your phone we gave you a grace period to try it out and determine if coverage is good enough where you live. Moving doesn't give you a new grace period. You're not under contact anymore so if you want to leave us...pay off your device and go. I'll even help you unlock it once you've paid it off. Backups, backups...holy sh*t freaking backup your data people. When an application wreaks havoc or you got ad bots or whether something software related fails you might as well be prepared to hard reset your phone. No, you're not getting a warranty replacement without doing that step first. You're gonna have to transfer your data either way so back your sh*t up. It's not my responsibility to ensure your pictures and contacts don't get lost. Take some responsibility for your data and educate yourself on how to save it. Warranty is not an upgrade path either. Don't ask for a different color or model. That one year by the manufacturer is for the exact model. We (the carrier) are nice enough to take care of the warranty on behalf of the manufacturer. You think Samsung or Asus will send you an upgraded or different device? Take it up with them. Don't whine and cry because you can't scam warranty and insurance for an upgrade. You want a new phone then pay off the one you have or buy it at full price.
Anyways just had to vent. Working in technical support is actually a lot of fun and I really enjoy educating and teaching customers how to use their devices and explore the world a smartphone has to offer. However the amount of rampant stupidity and unreal requests are absolutely absurd.
Tell me about it. Every. Single. Bloody. Day.
I truly, truly believe there should be a driving license for using a smartphone. The amount of people who have no idea how the device, the one that they entrust their entire lives to, actually works is damn near astronomical.
"My WiFi doesn't work. What did you do to it?!?! *insert expletives filled capslock rant about fraud and scammers*" To a provider that doesn't supply landlines, only mobile. About 80% of the people apparently don't know the difference between WiFi and Mobile Data.
Had this gem last week: Someone opened the charger flap on the S5, and the thing broke off. He bend down to pick it off the floor, and dropped the phone instead. Screen cracked, phone dead. Now that customer is demanding that the provider covers the repair costs of the dropped phone. He claims it wasn't his fault that the phone dropped, it was the fault of that broken off flap, and so it should fall under warranty.
"How do I view the photo I just took?" Why are you even using a smartphone?
This also happens about three times a day:
"My phone doesn't work." No other information, just that.
"Sir, which brand and model is your phone?"
"It's an iPhone."
"Which one?"
"An S4."
"Uh, sir, an iPhone 4S or a Samsung Galaxy S4?"
"Aren't they all the same?"
And then there's these people:
"I have a bill here for 300 quid of additional, out-of-package costs. I was calling a friend and forgot to end the call. You should've ended it for me. I'm not paying that."
Oh, and the amount of people referring to 4G as G4.... -.-
On the other side of that coin, I hate talking to the CS reps of ANY technology company.
"I need you to reprovision my data because your system thinks I have an iPhone and it's messing with my data"
"Sir, may I ask have you restarted your phone?"
and I have to go thru like 12 different times telling him to please do what I asked in the first place.
Or I walk into a T-Mobile store and the rep is telling me I can't use a verizon phone on the network, because it's verizon.
"But the phone comes unlocked, just give me a SIM card"
"Verizon is CDMA blah blah"
And I get to argue with the guy for an hour about how things actually work.
Or even worse when I try to get a warranty replacement device. No I don't want to restart my phone or factory reset it, or put in my Google Account login information again, or try a new SIM card, or anything like that.
The device is broken, I know about phones, just replace it and let's get on with it!
So trust me it's very frustrating for us consumers too...
Yep, definitely frustrating for consumers.
I have a phone that runs on unknown network bands, can I test a sim (i would pay the $2 if required)?
Nope, you are already on the best network.
But yours has different frequency bands
*Blank stare* Umm your already on the best network for reception
*Walk out knowing I could do the job better*
Sent from my fake galaxy note 4, now revived from the dead, again!
You do realize that the shop assistants are hired for their sales skills, not their knowledge of the product, I hope? All they receive is Sales training, not product information nor technical training.
Most of them couldn't tell an iPhone apart from a Samsung if their lives depended on it. Going to those monkeys with a tech question is like asking a 5 year old about String Theory. It's pointless.
You might as well walk into IKEA's storage section with a question about network frequencies. You're statistically more likely to find people with tech knowledge there than behind the counter in a provider shop. :laugh:
ShadowLea said:
You do realize that the shop assistants are hired for their service skills, not their knowledge of the product, I hope? All they receive is Sales training, not product information nor technical training.
Most of them couldn't tell an iPhone apart from a Samsung if their lives depended on it. Going to those monkeys with a tech question is like asking a 5 year old about String Theory. It's pointless.
You might as well walk into IKEA's storage section with a question about network frequencies. You're statistically more likely to find people with tech knowledge there than behind the counter in a provider shop. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the B&M guys, the "service technicians" on the phone, the "specialists" on the phone, the guys in chats etc.
I have never had someone who knew enough about networks, bands, actual device specs etc, talk to me from any portion of any phone company.
And I've been on every phone network...
orangekid said:
This is the B&M guys, the "service technicians" on the phone, the "specialists" on the phone, the guys in chats etc.
I have never had someone who knew enough about networks, bands, actual device specs etc, talk to me from any portion of any phone company.
And I've been on every phone network...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I know in the EU, you never actually get to speak to the Tech guys when you call in. It's still only a Customer Contact employee. They contact the Tech department on an internal line, but the tech lads never speak to customers. Don't know if the US system is different (probably not).
Oh I've met my fair share of the technologically handicapped in the shops, too. One shining example is the idiot who told me, in 2013, that I shouldn't use Android because it was still a Beta version, and thus I would be at risk of viruses. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
ShadowLea said:
Oh I've met my fair share of the technologically handicapped in the shops, too. One shining example is the idiot who told me, in 2013, that I shouldn't use Android because it was still a Beta version, and thus I would be at risk of viruses. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortuneately they hate Windows Phone to, which is a shame because aside from apps, it is the second best operating system (beats IOS by a mile)

Question Cloud Storage Security

Since Samsung eliminated MicroSD and reduced Internal Storage many users have turned to Cloud Storage for backups and data storage. You would be wise to assume all major Cloud Platforms have already been hacked to some degree but only when a major breach occurs will Cloud Provider's acknowledge the problem. It's a very real concern and the risks are rising. Common sense dictates that you protect yourself with other storage options!
Microsoft: Russian-backed hackers targeting cloud services
Microsoft said Monday the same Russia-backed hackers responsible for the 2020 SolarWinds breach continue to attack the global technology supply chain and have been relentlessly targeting cloud service companies and others since summer. The group, which Microsoft calls Nobelium, has employed a...
news.yahoo.com
I don't want the battery/bandwidth waste of cloud and don't trust it.
Use a OTG flashstick for quick "dirty" backups.
Main backup should always be at least two hdds that are physically and electronically isolated from each other and the PC.
Samsung will likely return to having SD card slots in the future on at least some of their flagship devices. Samsung's been cycling like this for years.
Personally I refuse to buy any device that doesn't allow for a dual drive setup.
One of the reasons I bought a 2nd new N10+ a few weeks ago.
Cloud storage is a joke, as internet law allows them to 'OWN' your data. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and if anything at all comes up over it you are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting back your data. This is how far behind the laws governing the internet are. Plus we have all of the major players in this country, funneling data to the CIA, and whoever else is asking.
I am a huge fan of local storage solutions and have a fireproof container for drives, medicine and other things. AT&T is the worst offender with their people using LOWER requirements for the sharing of our data. They are ALL doing it, so don't get cocky about your carrier. If they aren't doing it, they are being spied on to get it, anyway.
I will never trust corporations that believe they are people too. They don't even pay taxes.
Thisis Insane said:
Cloud storage is a joke, as internet law allows them to 'OWN' your data. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and if anything at all comes up over it you are at a disadvantage when it comes to getting back your data. This is how far behind the laws governing the internet are. Plus we have all of the major players in this country, funneling data to the CIA, and whoever else is asking.
I am a huge fan of local storage solutions and have a fireproof container for drives, medicine and other things. AT&T is the worst offender with their people using LOWER requirements for the sharing of our data. They are ALL doing it, so don't get cocky about your carrier. If they aren't doing it, they are being spied on to get it, anyway.
I will never trust corporations that believe they are people too. They don't even pay taxes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bell Atlantic had Black Rooms over a half a century ago...
A Bell lineman friend was the first to tell me about these almost 50 years ago.
Hoover was a vacuum cleaner...
Wasn't going that far back. We can start at the first time a caveman hit another one over the head to steal his woman. lol
This is more to do with the use/abuse of technology which could be so helpful for our society, but the crooks just won't stop ruining things. Can't have anything nice, anymore.
Thisis Insane said:
Wasn't going that far back. We can start at the first time a caveman hit another one over the head to steal his woman. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
History teaches you lessons so you don't have to learn the hard way...
They were eavesdropping on Nikola Tesla, to find out what he was doing, and steal the best of his work. They even have the guy in Tesla's hometown museum saying all of Tesla's trunks are there. He only has 60 or 70 of them, and there were 120 or something in that vein.
It's everywhere, and most of us are sleepwalking, and don't even know that we don't know what's going on.
blackhawk said:
History teaches you lessons so you don't have to learn the hard way...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It only works if people pay attention in school.
The newest exploit called Log4Shell is another good reason to avoid Cloud Storage. It has the ability to manipulate any Java scripts including iPhone. "Apple’s infrastructure is a Java program that will log the name of a user’s iPhone, so, as of a few hours ago, one could use this to exploit iCloud!" Anyone who feels Cloud Storage Platforms are secure is delusional.
What's the Deal with the Log4Shell Security Nightmare?
The details behind a massive cyber problem.
www.lawfareblog.com

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