Z & ZL - Xperia Z Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Heya. Can everyone tell me the differences between Sony XperiaZ and ZL ?
I wanna buy one of them and im still not sure which one to pick. Im reffering to the looks, performance, camera, everything.
Sent from my S2

ZL is a bit smaller. It has camera button and IR blaster.
Z is waterproof, while ZL is not. Z has full glass body, with ZL having textured-plastic back.
Same hardware, same specs otherwise.
Can't really think of any other important differences ( if there are any at all )

Also the ZL has a 40 mAh larger battery.

Hacker4748 said:
Also the ZL has a 40 mAh larger battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But at the same time less standby/talk time for some reason.

PixeLuL said:
Heya. Can everyone tell me the differences between Sony XperiaZ and ZL ?
I wanna buy one of them and im still not sure which one to pick. Im reffering to the looks, performance, camera, everything.
Sent from my S2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just google it bro
sent from Giant Killer Galaxy Note 2

also the XZL is cheaper than the XZ

SteConer said:
also the XZL is cheaper than the XZ
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Has that been confirmed ?

Akiainavas said:
ZL is a bit smaller. It has camera button and IR blaster.
Z is waterproof, while ZL is not. Z has full glass body, with ZL having textured-plastic back.
Same hardware, same specs otherwise.
Can't really think of any other important differences ( if there are any at all )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
z is thinner (but larger end wider)

Incidentally I think it was a mistake to make the Z waterproof and not the ZL. Lots of people are going to get confused and damage their ZL with water. They should either have made it water-proof or given it another letter.

ty
thank you dude!

Related

Difference between Xperia Z and ZL

Difference between Xperia Z and ZL??
juDGEY2k10 said:
Difference between Xperia Z and ZL??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GSMARENA is your friend
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5204&idPhone2=5203
gjokic said:
GSMARENA is your friend
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5204&idPhone2=5203
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so the Sony Xperia ZL is a better phone? I have paid for the Sony Xperia Z how do i get Sony Xperia ZL?
lol so you pre ordered a phone without even looking up the specs?
juDGEY2k10 said:
so the Sony Xperia ZL is a better phone? I have paid for the Sony Xperia Z how do i get Sony Xperia ZL?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They're basically the same. Identical specs etc.
Only differences i've been able to track:
- ZL is 5-6mm shorter
- Z is water/dust proof while ZL is not
- ZL has infrared port to act as a bravia remote
- Different build. Z is full glass while ZL uses plastic back
No info on the price, although it might be almost the same. Shame they won't bring Z and ZL in the same time to most countries - seems like half the world won't get one of them. ZL won't be available in the UK.
no i did not know there were 2 diffrent models of the same phone
But looking again the z is better as in
IP57 certified - dust and water resistant
- Water proof up to 1 meter and 30 minutes
there are a number of features that's different on both.
Infrared - ZL
water/dust resistant - Z
Size - ZL
camera shutter key - ZL
battery - ZL
glass body - Z
Dual Sim - ZL? Please confirm this one
that's all I think.
Riyal said:
there are a number of features that's different on both.
Infrared - ZL
water/dust resistant - Z
Size - ZL
camera shutter key - ZL
battery - ZL
glass body - Z
Dual Sim - ZL? Please confirm this one
that's all I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ZL is *not* dual sim.
ZL has IR blaster, camera button and slimmer bezel
Z has full glass body, is thinner and is waterproof.
M.
mattman83 said:
ZL is *not* dual sim.
ZL has IR blaster, camera button and slimmer bezel
Z has full glass body, is thinner and is waterproof.
M.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks if that's true Can't really confirm that one since almost all blogs state that it's dual sim
and a sony moderator can't even confirm this one.
http://talk.sonymobile.com/thread/101891
Nevertheless how can you say that it's not dual sim? Need some credible source to believe it.
Riyal said:
Thanks if that's true Can't really confirm that one since almost all blogs state that it's dual sim
and a sony moderator can't even confirm this one.
http://talk.sonymobile.com/thread/101891
Nevertheless how can you say that it's not dual sim? Need some credible source to believe it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not dual sim. Look at any video when they open the back. The cover on the back gives you slots for microsim and microsd, not 2 micro sim cards. Also the battery is not really bigger. It's about 30-40mah more which is basically the same if we look at 2370mah capacity.
ZL also has a better notification light.
rycexboi said:
ZL also has a better notification light.
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Click to collapse
They work basically the same - but ZL creates a kind of glowing line which looks totally awesome
Akiainavas said:
They work basically the same - but ZL creates a kind of glowing line which looks totally awesome
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Click to collapse
I wouldnt consider Z to have a notification light because of how small it is, it's just like my xperia T which I barely could see.
Ok then at least call it notification led since that thingy that's glowing is a light emitting diode LED.
hello i want to gift my dad Xperia Z/ZL or Note 2
i have Settle With Xperia But am confused Between Z/ZL
basically the phone is going to used as stock and atleast fot 3years no rooting or BL unlocking
so kindly guide me which 1 to buy Xperia Z or ZL
its going to launch in india on 12 march
imranaryan said:
hello i want to gift my dad Xperia Z/ZL or Note 2
i have Settle With Xperia But am confused Between Z/ZL
basically the phone is going to used as stock and atleast fot 3years no rooting or BL unlocking
so kindly guide me which 1 to buy Xperia Z or ZL
its going to launch in india on 12 march
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you want slightly bigger phone with water/dust proofing (Z) or smaller sized device with ir remote and no water/dust proofing (ZL)? Other than that they are basically the same with some design differences.
The Z scored better in data speeds and battery times in the spec lists on the gsm link above coupled with waterproof and shatterproof that's the one I'd get my dad lol

[Q] Super Confused

hi i bought X-SP from Flipkart.com .. but it have some hardware issue therefore they are refunding me the entire amount ... so now am confused weather to buy X-ZR/X-ZL/X-SP
please help..
imranaryan said:
hi i bought X-SP from Flipkart.com .. but it have some hardware issue therefore they are refunding me the entire amount ... so now am confused weather to buy X-ZR/X-ZL/X-SP
please help..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm already having problems with ZR (it's 10 days old) I have a friend with a Z and he hasn't got any problems, go for Z, or better buy an HTC or Samsung seems to me SONY are releasing a lot of faulty devices.
andes83 said:
I'm already having problems with ZR (it's 10 days old) I have a friend with a Z and he hasn't got any problems, go for Z, or better buy an HTC or Samsung seems to me SONY are releasing a lot of faulty devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what's wrong with yours ?
I brought my ZR with my friend and he brought the SP together. SP is good for who want a cheaper price, not targeting for a better camera. For SP, you can set the notification LED colors for different apps but ZR cannot. If you think the prize for ZR is reasonable, and you want better battery experience, quad cpu, waterproof phone, replaceable battery, then ZR is a good choice. SP seems a little heavier as it uses metal case I think. One more major difference is that ZR has cover for micro usb and headset plug. It's a little inconvenient but some will take those covers as a plus as they can protect the phone from dust. Also ZR is obviously smoother in my point of view.
All in all, if you don't think price is a major problem and the function of the phone is important to you, then I think ZR is your choice.
Sent from my C5503 using xda app-developers app
ming0070913 said:
I brought my ZR with my friend and he brought the SP together. SP is good for who want a cheaper price, not targeting for a better camera. For SP, you can set the notification LED colors for different apps but ZR cannot. If you think the prize for ZR is reasonable, and you want better battery experience, quad cpu, waterproof phone, replaceable battery, then ZR is a good choice. SP seems a little heavier as it uses metal case I think. One more major difference is that ZR has cover for micro usb and headset plug. It's a little inconvenient but some will take those covers as a plus as they can protect the phone from dust. Also ZR is obviously smoother in my point of view.
All in all, if you don't think price is a major problem and the function of the phone is important to you, then I think ZR is your choice.
Sent from my C5503 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, the SP has aluminium parts, even the power button is made with alu.
http://www.sonymobile.com/us/products/phones/xperia-sp/features/#design
Ilko said:
what's wrong with yours ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screen became unresponsive and now it's gone for repairs. There are already 2-3 people with the same problem in the forum. Maybe it's just bad luck.
andes83 said:
The screen became unresponsive and now it's gone for repairs. There are already 2-3 people with the same problem in the forum. Maybe it's just bad luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well 2 or 3 in the same forum, with a not too much popularity for that device, I won't call it bad luck. Let's wait and see

should i get the Z or Z1?

im upgrading from the S3 to a Z1 this holiday season, mainly because of the water proofing. Before my S3 i had a SE Xperia Arc S and i miss the quality of Sony. My wife on the other hand has an Xperia U and she wants a bigger phone, her favourite colour is purple and the only phones Sony has in purple are the Z and Z1.
the Xperia Z is at a reasonable price right now and has just about all the great features as the Z1, but is there anything that im missing that are different with the two phones? I really dont want her to be disappointed with the Z when she see's my Z1 is better, she's not a very tech person, will she notice any differences compared to my soon to be Z1?
The Z1 is about 20% faster then the Z.
There is no flap to cover the headphone jack on the Z1, so if you like to listen a lot of music with headphones I would suggest you go for the Z1.
The water proofiness is also a tad better on the Z1
midego said:
The Z1 is about 20% faster then the Z.
There is no flap to cover the headphone jack on the Z1, so if you like to listen a lot of music with headphones I would suggest you go for the Z1.
The water proofiness is also a tad better on the Z1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how annoying is the flap on the Z to remove every time to plug in a headphones?
Avantiel said:
how annoying is the flap on the Z to remove every time to plug in a headphones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found it pretty annoying, that is why I bought the Z1 when it came out and did my Z away.
And I love the magnetic charger, I never have to open any flap anymore
I had the Z, had to get it repaired twice and finally returned it because the back glass kept coming unglued. I may have been unfortunate and gotten a bad device (and then bad repairs I guess) but it is a widespread issue with that device (see here) so keep that in mind if you decide to get that one.
The Xperia Z1 feels much more sturdy than the Z and it features longer battery life even though it's faster.
The purple on the Xperia Z looks nicer than the purple on the Xperia Z1 though
well , the Z1 has much faster CPU , better Camera , louder speaker , better display , and the most important thing that u'll really miss it even if u compare with the S3 is the 3000mAh battery !
the Z has got a bad battery , however , its thinner and lighter .
Libyan Man said:
well , the Z1 has much faster CPU , better Camera , louder speaker , better display , and the most point that u'll really miss it even if u compare with the S3 is the 3000mAh battery !
the Z has got a bad battery , however , its thinner and lighter .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't necessarily say the Xperia Z has a bad battery, but the Xperia Z1 has certainly got a better one. The Xperia Z is fast enough for 90% of people, and while I notice the difference, it's not like I perceive it as some ridiculous speed boost. Same with the display, the Xperia Z is pretty much on par with the Xperia Z1 I think, perhaps the colours are a little clearer in the Z1, but the Xperia Z is by no means a bad device.
Loudspeaker and camera are much better on the Z1.
Both are good choices, providing you don't get any trouble with the back glass on the Xperia Z that is.
Rekoil said:
I wouldn't necessarily say the Xperia Z has a bad battery, but the Xperia Z1 has certainly got a better one. The Xperia Z is fast enough for 90% of people, and while I notice the difference, it's not like I perceive it as some ridiculous speed boost. Same with the display, the Xperia Z is pretty much on par with the Xperia Z1 I think, perhaps the colours are a little clearer in the Z1, but the Xperia Z is by no means a bad device.
Loudspeaker and camera are much better on the Z1.
Both are good choices, providing you don't get any trouble with the back glass on the Xperia Z that is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everyone has got his own opinion , i've had the 2 devices and i really recognize these things , i think you are an Xperia Z owner or u still love it actually
u said 90% of people how or where did got that percentage bro ? are comparing SD S4 with SD 800!! are you serious ? for that i'll say just full up ur Z with apps , games and other media files , lose RAM , then watch it !
Libyan Man said:
everyone has got his own opinion , i've had the 2 devices and i really recognize these things , i think you are an Xperia Z owner
u said 90% of people how or where did got that percentage bro ? are comparing SD S4 with SD 800!! are you serious ? for that i'll say just full up ur Z with apps , games and other media files , lose RAM , then watch it !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was an Xperia Z owner yes, now I have the Xperia Z1, and I'm telling you that for the price difference currently between the two devices (presuming you get a good Z where the back glass doesn't fall off) it is a tough call if you're not a mobile phone enthusiast.
The Snapdragon S4 (APQ8064: Krait 200) is still a very good processor which is why they based the Snapdragon 800 (MSM8974: Krait 400) on the same platform. They actually are very similar, the 800 is just clocked faster, has better power management, better WLAN, better graphics, USB3 and better image processing. Honestly both provide fluid UIs and a very good user experience.
Rekoil said:
I was an Xperia Z owner yes, now I have the Xperia Z1, and I'm telling you that for the price difference currently between the two devices (presuming you get a good Z where the back glass doesn't fall off) it is a tough call if you're not a mobile phone enthusiast.
The Snapdragon S4 (APQ8064: Krait 200) is still a very good processor which is why they based the Snapdragon 800 (MSM8974: Krait 400) on the same platform. They actually are very similar, the 800 is just clocked faster, has better power management, better WLAN, better graphics, USB3 and better image processing. Honestly both provide fluid UIs and a very good user experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm the only thing that i can agree with you is the price , the SD S4 CPU is an end of generation , the architecture are different bro ! you comparison is not fair because the S4 Pro cant even rich the Snapdragon 600 ! it only beat the Snapdragon 200 .
Libyan Man said:
hmm the only thing that i can agree with you is the price , the SD S4 CPU is an end of generation , the architecture are different bro ! you comparison is not fair because the S4 Pro cant even rich the Snapdragon 600 ! it only beat the Snapdragon 200 .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The S4 Pro (Cortex-A9 with Adreno 320) is better than 200 and 400 (as those are Cortex-A7 based and feature at best Adreno 305 graphics), not 600 or 800.
But that isn't my point. My point is that S4 Pro is good enough. We don't need anything faster.
Also the Snapdragon 600 and 800 do not feature true Cortex-A15 processors if that is what you were referring to when you said they are different architectures. They borrow some power saving innovations (by increasing efficiency) from A15 sure, but they are mostly A9's, not true A15.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Q] Xperia T worth buying now?

My last phone was a Xperia Arc (loved it, only issue was low RAM), I lost it and now I need a replacement. I need a cheap android WITH MHL or HDMI port. I came across Xperia T for 240€, which is good enough for me. I know every phone has its issues, so I ask you if you think this would be a good choice. Im suprised at how "cheap" it is with such a fancy camera and other specs (which I dont really need), but I cant find a decent phone that has TV-OUT within this price range.
LuckyStriker33 said:
My last phone was a Xperia Arc (loved it, only issue was low RAM), I lost it and now I need a replacement. I need a cheap android WITH MHL or HDMI port. I came across Xperia T for 240€, which is good enough for me. I know every phone has its issues, so I ask you if you think this would be a good choice. Im suprised at how "cheap" it is with such a fancy camera and other specs (which I dont really need), but I cant find a decent phone that has TV-OUT within this price range.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suggest taking the Xperia V. It's a little smaller (an advantage imo) and waterproof ^^
By the way it also has LTE support, if that matters for your region
Sent from my LT25i using xda app-developers app
WhiteNeo said:
I suggest taking the Xperia V. It's a little smaller (an advantage imo) and waterproof ^^
By the way it also has LTE support, if that matters for your region
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im looking into it and I like it. Do you know if it has the same issues as Xperia T ("sudden death")?
Thanks for your advice.
LuckyStriker33 said:
Im looking into it and I like it. Do you know if it has the same issues as Xperia T ("sudden death")?
Thanks for your advice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sudden death has been fixed with jelly bean update.
Anytime mate ^^
Sent from my LT25i using xda app-developers app
Internals are almost identical, but...
Xperia V is waterproof, and is smaller, and is having removable battery.
Xperia T is having bigger display, is better looking (this is subjective of course), and is having doubled internal memory.
Comparing them side by side...
http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4958&idPhone2=4899
...you'll notice that Xperia V appears to be slightly taller and thinner, and this is where Xperia T gets my voice for being prettier.
They are actually the same height, but V is 2,3mm thinner, and bezels appear bigger.
I was in the same dilemma three months ago, when I sold my Xperia Arc S, and I chose Xperia T, and honestly, I love this phone.
It's sexy, nicely built, and Jelly Bean is working quite good out of the box. This is the first phone that I haven't armed with some custom ROM.
It all comes down to personal taste really, when choosing between T and V. Some will say V, some will say T.
I say check some reviews, some videos, and make your own decision. Never ask for suggestion on public forums.
LuckyStriker33 said:
My last phone was a Xperia Arc (loved it, only issue was low RAM), I lost it and now I need a replacement. I need a cheap android WITH MHL or HDMI port. I came across Xperia T for 240€, which is good enough for me. I know every phone has its issues, so I ask you if you think this would be a good choice. Im suprised at how "cheap" it is with such a fancy camera and other specs (which I dont really need), but I cant find a decent phone that has TV-OUT within this price range.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xperia T is better and way better than the Xperia V, while the Xperia V is waterproof
AndroidHoneyComb said:
Xperia T is better and way better than the Xperia V, while the Xperia V is waterproof
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the T worth buying? Not really. The Xperia Z is in the same price range as the Xperia T (around $350) on eBay AU
SammiSaysHello said:
Is the T worth buying? Not really. The Xperia Z is in the same price range as the Xperia T (around $350) on eBay AU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the Xperia T is much cheaper, but the Nexus 5 > Xperia Z due to the specs of nexus 5 and it being 300 somthinmg
SammiSaysHello said:
Is the T worth buying? Not really. The Xperia Z is in the same price range as the Xperia T (around $350) on eBay AU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ehm, no..., but...maybe in Australia :silly:
Im in Germany, and the XT is some sort of a really cheap nice deal, and its not same prized like the XZ. You pay nearly 100euro more for the XZ
You can get the XT round about 230euro +/-
But whatever, best argument for the XT is the look and feel and the displaysize-hardwaresize relation, better than on the XV.
And we have omnirom support, another good argument, if you like flashing custom roms

Help on Deciding.

Hey guys, i have quite allot of android phones and i have tried to stay away from Sony since they lock their boot loaders and it looked like it was hard to develop anything i haven't gotten one (the old ui was FUGLY as well). i own a T989 Galaxy s2 (in fact i own three of them!) as my Main for right now and its getting pretty old (cpu and gpu are old and Games are not as well handled as they used to) i have been thinking of getting a new phone and that phone i have come down to is either a Samsung Galaxy mega 6.3 or a Xperia Z or Xperia SP, i have never payed attention to the Xperia line and they have a pretty good thing going for now, i think i might have to move them to my list of jobs i might take up . everything about the Xperia Z looks pretty great, everything beats out my s2. thought im worried that i have heard that xperias TFT Screens have TERRIBLE veiwing angles, i dont honestly know if i care about that but do any of you get disappointed by this? and do you think it would be the same on the Xperia SP? if so please state what you dont like about the Xperia Z, your Help is appreciated .
Trozzul said:
Hey guys, i have quite allot of android phones and i have tried to stay away from Sony since they lock their boot loaders and it looked like it was hard to develop anything i haven't gotten one (the old ui was FUGLY as well). i own a T989 Galaxy s2 (in fact i own three of them!) as my Main for right now and its getting pretty old (cpu and gpu are old and Games are not as well handled as they used to) i have been thinking of getting a new phone and that phone i have come down to is either a Samsung Galaxy mega 6.3 or a Xperia Z or Xperia SP, i have never payed attention to the Xperia line and they have a pretty good thing going for now, i think i might have to move them to my list of jobs i might take up . everything about the Xperia Z looks pretty great, everything beats out my s2. thought im worried that i have heard that xperias TFT Screens have TERRIBLE veiwing angles, i dont honestly know if i care about that but do any of you get disappointed by this? and do you think it would be the same on the Xperia SP? if so please state what you dont like about the Xperia Z, your Help is appreciated .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well i suggest you to go for Xperia Z1 Compact / Z2,it has very good viewing angles
Xperia Z & Z1 really has very bad viewing angles,SP about same,but better
Or you can choose T2 Ultra,it also uses IPS TFT
Ben Ling said:
well i suggest you to go for Xperia Z1 Compact / Z2,it has very good viewing angles
Xperia Z & Z1 really has very bad viewing angles,SP about same,but better
Or you can choose T2 Ultra,it also uses IPS TFT
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about the Xperia ZL it seems about the same as the Xperia Z?
Trozzul said:
What about the Xperia ZL it seems about the same as the Xperia Z?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same,with colours badly washed out when viewed off-centre
Ben Ling said:
same,with colours badly washed out when viewed off-centre
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i see that the Xperia Z1 compact only has a 4.3" screen. my s2 has a 4.5" and i would like something bigger or equal to that. i see that the Xperia Z2 Compact will have a bigger screen but when it comes out is unknown. im sure i wouldn't mind the poor viewing angles, but the real question is would i be fine with the SP or do i need a bigger screen (Xperia ZL) for $100 more?
Im viewing my phone head on and don't really want people watching my screen so the 'terrible' viewing angles don't mean much to me. When I show people videos on my phone no one has complained saying they cannot see. Im an ex Z user and current Z1 user. Id go for the Z out of your choices.
Trozzul said:
i see that the Xperia Z1 compact only has a 4.3" screen. my s2 has a 4.5" and i would like something bigger or equal to that. i see that the Xperia Z2 Compact will have a bigger screen but when it comes out is unknown. im sure i wouldn't mind the poor viewing angles, but the real question is would i be fine with the SP or do i need a bigger screen (Xperia ZL) for $100 more?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S2 have the same 4.3" like Z1 Compact
While Z2 Compact would probably be around 4.6"
Sony won't support SP much as it is not Z Series,so i still suggest you to go for bigger screen of Xperia Z / ZL
Z2 is the best choice
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk
If you are looking at the Z2, i personally suggest looking at the newer HTC One M8 and S5.
Sony has JUST begun to catch up with competition, an example is they finally use IPS displays that don't give washed out colours.
Another thing that is an issue as of right now is, their software updates arrive late and with serious bugs, just take a look in the Z Ultra, Z1, Z1 Compact sections about their 4.4 update.
Also, the Z2 has quite large bezels.
Another thing to keep in mind is, when the next flagship Sony comes out soon, Sony will shift most their focus to that device, resulting in the Z2 having a shorter life as a top priority device compared to other companies devices.
(Sony has a 6 month flagship rotation, other companies usually have a one year flagship rotation)
Sony has begun to improve slowly, but to me, Sony is still a risky choice if you are looking for a flagship grade device and support.
All this is just my personal opinion
Ben Ling said:
S2 have the same 4.3" like Z1 Compact
While Z2 Compact would probably be around 4.6"
Sony won't support SP much as it is not Z Series,so i still suggest you to go for bigger screen of Xperia Z / ZL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have a T989 which has a 4.5" display, i think it was the only s2 released with a 4.5" display
Trozzul said:
i have a T989 which has a 4.5" display, i think it was the only s2 released with a 4.5" display
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's T-Mobile version of SII
So you can go for Z series...
Ben Ling said:
That's T-Mobile version of SII
So you can go for Z series...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup i was aware of that. i think im just going to grab a ZL, im sure i wont mind the washed out angles.

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