Related
I guess nobody will know for sure until April 19th, but I've seen conflicting reports online that the HTC One Developer Edition is S-ON and then I've also read it's S-OFF.
Does anybody have any other information on this?
It's not gonna be s-off. Confirmed by HTC dev reps on twitter.
what makes it developer then?
MacHackz said:
what makes it developer then?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly it's just sim unlocked and bootloader unlocked. Much cheaper imo to just buy a sim unlocked one for $100 cheaper and unlock the bootloader myself.
rayford85 said:
My thoughts exactly it's just sim unlocked and bootloader unlocked. Much cheaper imo to just buy a sim unlocked one for $100 cheaper and unlock the bootloader myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got mine in England for the cheapest price here (750.08 US Dollars), is it cheaper over there?
MacHackz said:
I got mine in England for the cheapest price here (750.08 US Dollars), is it cheaper over there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://htconeprereg.com/cell-phones/productdetail.htm?prId=41620 quite a bit cheaper
rayford85 said:
My thoughts exactly it's just sim unlocked and bootloader unlocked. Much cheaper imo to just buy a sim unlocked one for $100 cheaper and unlock the bootloader myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's 64gig though
Ok, so this is going to be my first Android phone (I'm currently using an iPhone 5) and obviously I have a LOT of reading, but how big of problem is it that this isn't S-Off? Will I still be able to use Cyanogen ROMs, etc? What are the other disadvantages?
(I also thought I read that S-Off devices can have stock Android flashed to them?)
sofakng said:
Ok, so this is going to be my first Android phone (I'm currently using an iPhone 5) and obviously I have a LOT of reading, but how big of problem is it that this isn't S-Off? Will I still be able to use Cyanogen ROMs, etc? What are the other disadvantages?
(I also thought I read that S-Off devices can have stock Android flashed to them?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can still flash roms with S-On, just not radios or kernels inside recovery . This has to be done via fast boot. Therefore you need to have access to a PC to flash kernels .
sofakng said:
Ok, so this is going to be my first Android phone (I'm currently using an iPhone 5) and obviously I have a LOT of reading, but how big of problem is it that this isn't S-Off? Will I still be able to use Cyanogen ROMs, etc? What are the other disadvantages?
(I also thought I read that S-Off devices can have stock Android flashed to them?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can still use cyanogenmod. S-Off is just for those guys who really want 100% control over their phone.
iaeonn stock,
Ahhh, OK. Thanks!
So basically you can still do everything (i.e. flash kernels, ROMs, etc) you can with S-On that you can with S-Off but you need a PC to enter fastboot mode (?)
This doesn't sound like such a big deal then...
sofakng said:
Ahhh, OK. Thanks!
So basically you can still do everything (i.e. flash kernels, ROMs, etc) you can with S-On that you can with S-Off but you need a PC to enter fastboot mode (?)
This doesn't sound like such a big deal then...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, plus TWRP Dumlock allows you to flash kernels on the go anyway
Don't know about s-off but bootloader unlocked. I've seen screen shots online. Can't remember where I saw it but it popped up a few times yesterday and this morning on my Blinkfeed. Google it and I'm sure you'll find it.
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
Can you flash radios at all?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
Already been stated earlier that the bootloader is unlocked, which is really easy to do anyway.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
i only want s-off for two and only two reason
-> fastboot oem writecid 11111111
warranty
-> fastboot oem writesecureflag 3
Okay, I have a couple of questions I'm hoping someone can answer.
1). What is the situation with the boot loader on the One? I know there is a developer edition, but are all of the other versions going to be locked down? Also, since there is a Dev version I assume the one won't be on their unlock website, right?
2) my second question is more about HTC in general, and s-off. I know it stands for security off, but what does it do exactly? I've heard its needed for flashing certain things like kernels, but I don't understand why that would he necessary if the boot loader is already unlocked.
Im on Verizon, hoping and praying that the One comes to us, if not I'm probably leaving them. Can't wait to get my hands on this great phone, and hopefully help HTC come out of the dumps
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Chirp chirp? Are there not even any crickets in here?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
The One can be bootloader unlocked through htcdev. No problems there
Bootloader unlocked lets you flash custom firmware, but S-OFF gives you full control over what you want to do. This stands for NAND locked or NAND unlocked. What that does is give you access to normally restricted partitions on the phone, such as the boot and radio partitions. Even with bootloader unlocked, you need to flash the boot.img separately if you do not have S-OFF and radios cant be flashed
And doing the chirp chirp thing doesnt encourage people to answer. Just a tip.
Boot loader can be unlocked on all EU carriers by spending 5 mins on the htcdev site (its included under Other phones)
As for s off, not currently possible but also not needed. On tegra HTC phones you needed it to flash boot.img as part of flashing a new ROM but already bypassed for the One.
Sent from my 2.4.0 Trickdroid HTC One via xda-developers application
Tetsumi06 said:
Boot loader can be unlocked on all EU carriers by spending 5 mins on the htcdev site (its included under Other phones)
As for s off, not currently possible but also not needed. On tegra HTC phones you needed it to flash boot.img as part of flashing a new ROM but already bypassed for the One.
Sent from my 2.4.0 Trickdroid HTC One via xda-developers application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically its still needed, but theyve developed a workaround which is essentially fastbooting it from the phone.
Also correction, its not only on Tegra processors that this is an issue, its on all HTC devices because they all come NAND locked.
It's not needed but would be better if we can get s-off soon.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
ant78 said:
It's not needed but would be better if we can get s-off soon.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, what can be done with S-OFF that isn't possible currently?
AllyOmega said:
So, what can be done with S-OFF that isn't possible currently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the things that can be done with s-off is flash a kernel image right from the phone without a PC
AllyOmega said:
So, what can be done with S-OFF that isn't possible currently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said above me, flashing kernels during a rom flash (the rom zip will attempt to do it, but s-on prevents the boot.img from taking) without a computer or a workaround like SuperBoot, and you can also flash radios with s-off
AllyOmega said:
So, what can be done with S-OFF that isn't possible currently?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CID can be changed to flash a different region ROM.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
And also to reflash HBOOT so that it says LOCKED instead of RELOCKED for warranty purposes.
Hey. I've been wanting to unlock the bootloader of my One and stupidly enough I accepted the 4.2.2. OTA so I can't really use revone now because of the updated hboot. Anyways, my only option seems to be using the HTCDev tool but here's where my paranoia comes to mind. Are they keeping a record on whoever's unlocked their One? Basically, I don't want them knowing I've unlocked it - mostly because they have no need to know it.
I guess I could wait until revone is updated but I have no idea when that'll be, hence my question.
Cheers.
They probably keep a record of who has requested an unlock token - but I doubt they can tell if you have used it or not..
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
I just want to unlock my bootloader, but I hate that everything's wiped. With revone, nothing's wiped but then again I'm not sure if S-OFF's ever possible on 1.54. Then I'm stuck.
1.54 can't be s-off'd at the moment. Hopefully soon though
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
redbull123 said:
1.54 can't be s-off'd at the moment. Hopefully soon though
Sent from my HTC One using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it can't. I hope it happens soon.
Theshawty said:
I know it can't. I hope it happens soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, sorry - I thought you said your weren't sure..
Theshawty said:
I'm not sure if S-OFF's even possible on 1.54.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theshawty said:
Hey. I've been wanting to unlock the bootloader of my One and stupidly enough I accepted the 4.2.2. OTA so I can't really use revone now because of the updated hboot. Anyways, my only option seems to be using the HTCDev tool but here's where my paranoia comes to mind. Are they keeping a record on whoever's unlocked their One? Basically, I don't want them knowing I've unlocked it - mostly because they have no need to know it.
I guess I could wait until revone is updated but I have no idea when that'll be, hence my question.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know the situation in Norway but in Holland HTC sends the phones in to a 3rd party repair company (dynafix, fixes all types of phones, also does (warranty) repairs for eg samsung) for warranty repairs, I doubt they can or bother to look into the database and see if an unlock token has been requested. I think the technicians have been instructed to look at the bootloader status (unlocked/relocked) and been instructed to deny warranty in such cases as much as possible.... I send in my device for warranty s-off(with revone though never unlocked via htcdev), but with locked bootloader, and it was repaired under warranty
redbull123 said:
Ok, sorry - I thought you said your weren't sure..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Typo. I meant "ever".
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
godutch said:
I don't know the situation in Norway but in Holland HTC sends the phones in to a 3rd party repair company (dynafix, fixes all types of phones, also does (warranty) repairs for eg samsung) for warranty repairs, I doubt they can or bother to look into the database and see if an unlock token has been requested. I think the technicians have been instructed to look at the bootloader status (unlocked/relocked) and been instructed to deny warranty in such cases as much as possible.... I send in my device for warranty s-off(with revone though never unlocked via htcdev), but with locked bootloader, and it was repaired under warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know the situation in Norway either. I don't live there.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
Theshawty said:
I don't know the situation in Norway either. I don't live there.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sweden then... I just looked at your carrier
Theshawty said:
Hey. I've been wanting to unlock the bootloader of my One and stupidly enough I accepted the 4.2.2. OTA so I can't really use revone now because of the updated hboot. Anyways, my only option seems to be using the HTCDev tool but here's where my paranoia comes to mind. Are they keeping a record on whoever's unlocked their One? Basically, I don't want them knowing I've unlocked it - mostly because they have no need to know it.
I guess I could wait until revone is updated but I have no idea when that'll be, hence my question.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as long as its an Online process, and its done over the internet and requires your IMEI & SN i am %100 they keep record of your history.
unlike samsung which uses Odin app to unlock, Root, Flash stuff without going online
Hey everyone, i am new to this XDA developers site, but have many years of experience with android devices, my latest one though, well is the htc one, i would like to know, is there any risk to using the ''Firewater'' S-OFF Command, i am just wondering this because i would like to unlock the full capability of this wonderful device, and i only have it a week or two, so i would not like to damage the device by only having it 2 weeks, i love it, but would like to unlock the full potential of it, and i also love sense and stock android, so would be seriously interested.
Bottom Line, Is there any risk of using the ''Firewater'' S-OFF Tool?
Thanks very much,
Ir1shwall3.
Ir1shWall3 said:
Hey everyone, i am new to this XDA developers site, but have many years of experience with android devices, my latest one though, well is the htc one, i would like to know, is there any risk to using the ''Firewater'' S-OFF Command, i am just wondering this because i would like to unlock the full capability of this wonderful device, and i only have it a week or two, so i would not like to damage the device by only having it 2 weeks, i love it, but would like to unlock the full potential of it, and i also love sense and stock android, so would be seriously interested.
Bottom Line, Is there any risk of using the ''Firewater'' S-OFF Tool?
Thanks very much,
Ir1shwall3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, no risk, either it will work or it wont, if it fails then there is a new one called Sunshine s-off which apparently works on the M7 but you have to pay for it, try firewater first.
I'm still not persuaded, I'm afraid it will harm it and damage my device, maybe I'll do it in the future, but thanks very much for your reply, I gave you a thanks on your answer?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Free mobile app
Ir1shWall3 said:
I'm still not persuaded, I'm afraid it will harm it and damage my device, maybe I'll do it in the future, but thanks very much for your reply, I gave you a thanks on your answer?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
like I said, it wont hurt it at all, it will either work or it wont, read the s-off thread if you don't believe me, ive ran it 50 times to try and get s-off and ended up doing it by java card because firewater failed. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2632351
that was before sunshine came about, if I was still s-on, I would hesitate to pay for and run sunshine right now.
Ir1shWall3 said:
Hey everyone, i am new to this XDA developers site, but have many years of experience with android devices, my latest one though, well is the htc one, i would like to know, is there any risk to using the ''Firewater'' S-OFF Command, i am just wondering this because i would like to unlock the full capability of this wonderful device, and i only have it a week or two, so i would not like to damage the device by only having it 2 weeks, i love it, but would like to unlock the full potential of it, and i also love sense and stock android, so would be seriously interested.
Bottom Line, Is there any risk of using the ''Firewater'' S-OFF Tool?
Thanks very much,
Ir1shwall3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
having S-Off etc is the best ever i have done on my htc couldnt imagine now to have s-on again its the ultimate lol.
firewater works however it did take quite some trys back-then before it succeeded, i did alot of reading before i decided
wanting having s-off, pros/cons but conclusion now and after the reading before s-off was a no-brainer (for me)
i remember having the same thoughts to about the bricking but after reading through many topics here and other sites
i wasent that scared of it mostly nervous if it worked or not xD as the guy above says, either it works or not. for me it took many tries to as said, but ones having s-off
you wont look back i believe i guess its a preference since we all have our personal favorite if wanting s-on or off.
i would "advice" reading more through about using firewater getting inputs, i had same thoughts as you with using it at first as long with rooting etc
and i never knew or tried those things actually before i joined this awesome forum and started to use it regular. i see you are quite into the android
from your text to thats good advantage and should help as well with choosing to use or not
im aware of my low post count xD but i dont post/reply just to get posts up, only if im able to give input there may help in some way
either way, wishing you goodluck if you decided to go for it!
hah as Seanie280672 says to it might take alot of tries, its just keep going eventually it should succeed
Thanksks for the information, so it will not brick or will there be very little chance of bricking?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Free mobile app
Ir1shWall3 said:
Thanksks for the information, so it will not brick or will there be very little chance of bricking?
Sent from my HTC One using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just remember s-off actually means security off and opens up the nand to full write, its no longer protected.
therefore if you try to flash something that's not for your particular device, it will no longer fail with an error, it will flash and brick your device, s-off itself doesn't brick, the user bricks by flashing the wrong things, so make sure you know what you are doing before you go s-off, if you don't really need it, or don't know what you are doing then don't bother, there's so many users on here that don't actually know how to even identify their correct RUU for instance, and that's simple stuff, but downloading the wrong one and flashing parts of it that don't belong to your phone = a brick, but again, that's the user, not s-off.
on the other hand however, s-off can help you out a lot, take a look at the below thread, he flashed the wrong software whilst s-on and has knackered his phone up, if he was s-off then it would be easily fixable with a simple downgrade of HBOOT, but because he's s-on he now has a brick: http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-one/help/help-active-cmdline-overflow-1025-bytes-t2841484
S-off is complete control of your phone. Which is the dangerous part. The process to s-off is simple and will not brick you. Just be sure to remember your model ID (like mine is M7_wlv) because all ruu files will state what model number it is and for what firmware.
The reason to want s-off? Search your specific device's ruu files and see if there is one for your version or high that is officially signed by HTC. If there is none, you will want s-off to downgrade or flash the unsigned ruu. As S-on, you cannot downgrade firmware or flash unsigned ruus
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using XDA Free mobile app
Guys I have an international HTC one with latest ota update and h -boot(1.57.0). If I decide to leave it s-on will I be able to change os from sense to cm. I'm worried that my phone might get a kernel problem since I always had to flash the boot img to get another Rom working...just want to know if I'll be able to flash all Rome below or above my current firmware?
yasir4abbas said:
Guys I have an international HTC one with latest ota update and h -boot(1.57.0). If I decide to leave it s-on will I be able to change os from sense to cm. I'm worried that my phone might get a kernel problem since I always had to flash the boot img to get another Rom working...just want to know if I'll be able to flash all Rome below or above my current firmware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can flash any custom rom as long as its for your phone, even if your s-on, you just have to be HTC Dev unlocked, just make sure its for your phone and read the OP and instructions, the guy who bricked his recently flashed CM11 designed for a completely different phone and the kernel messed one of his partitions up, he didn't read the details and instructions, it couldn't be fixed because he wasn't s-off, the fix only works if your on HBOOT 1.44 and you cant downgrade that without s-off.
yasir4abbas said:
Guys I have an international HTC one with latest ota update and h -boot(1.57.0). If I decide to leave it s-on will I be able to change os from sense to cm. I'm worried that my phone might get a kernel problem since I always had to flash the boot img to get another Rom working...just want to know if I'll be able to flash all Rome below or above my current firmware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, as long as the software is for your device it will be perfect, but you'll need to know the actual model number of your device, mine is m7_ul, but yours might be just m7, so be weary of what yours is, the best way of finding this out is going into the bootloader and looking at the first characters on the first line, i'm good at all this stuff, its that im just weary of making my device an expensive piece of metal and glass, if you need help, you can always send me a message
Ir1shWall3 said:
Yeah, as long as the software is for your device it will be perfect, but you'll need to know the actual model number of your device, mine is m7_ul, but yours might be just m7, so be weary of what yours is, the best way of finding this out is going into the bootloader and looking at the first characters on the first line, i'm good at all this stuff, its that im just weary of making my device an expensive piece of metal and glass, if you need help, you can always send me a message
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's not completely true, a custom rom built for M7_UL will work just fine on the M7_U, they are the same device, just one has LTE and the other doesn't, just means those parts of the rom wont be installed.
the only rom's you cant use are HTC ONE M7 custom rom';s built for Spirint and Verizon devices.
Seanie280672 said:
that's not completely true, a custom rom built for M7_UL will work just fine on the M7_U, they are the same device, just one has LTE and the other doesn't, just means those parts of the rom wont be installed.
the only rom's you cant use are HTC ONE M7 custom rom';s built for Spirint and Verizon devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah right! I guess the ul has 4G? You learn something new everyday!
Hi,
I have a noob question, and I'm sorry that this not where i should post
I have an International HTC One M7 (4.4.2 and Sense 6). Since HTC is committed to provide OTAs for Android L, which I don't want to miss. But I want my phone to be S-Off and Unlocked bootloader. I've read a post saying that we are still eligible for OTAs if we have stock recovery, stock rom. So I just want to Unlock my bootloader and S-Off, thats it I dont want to install any recovery or flash any roms. I only want this because, i will be frank, i need that pan360 feature in my camera (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU28g9yxzN4) as you can see at 14:45 in the linked video. So what should I do? And unlocking bootloader, getting s-off and relocking the bootloader qualifies us to get OTAs? how exactly does the HTCs OTAs check in my phone before it decides whether im eligible for OTA or not.
Thanks in advance!
phsetaknev said:
Hi,
I have a noob question, and I'm sorry that this not where i should post
I have an International HTC One M7 (4.4.2 and Sense 6). Since HTC is committed to provide OTAs for Android L, which I don't want to miss. But I want my phone to be S-Off and Unlocked bootloader. I've read a post saying that we are still eligible for OTAs if we have stock recovery, stock rom. So I just want to Unlock my bootloader and S-Off, thats it I dont want to install any recovery or flash any roms. I only want this because, i will be frank, i need that pan360 feature in my camera (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU28g9yxzN4) as you can see at 14:45 in the linked video. So what should I do? And unlocking bootloader, getting s-off and relocking the bootloader qualifies us to get OTAs? how exactly does the HTCs OTAs check in my phone before it decides whether im eligible for OTA or not.
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok unlocking your boot loader and getting soff will have nothing to do with getting the app. That may rely on being rooted which will mean ugly will need to flash something. To be honest I wouldn't count on an ota before there is a flashable zip built from source.
zelendel said:
Ok unlocking your boot loader and getting soff will have nothing to do with getting the app. That may rely on being rooted which will mean ugly will need to flash something. To be honest I wouldn't count on an ota before there is a flashable zip built from source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean, we dont need an OTA since side loading is already available even before the OTA reaches the devices?? If YES then does rooting enable side loading?
phsetaknev said:
You mean, we dont need an OTA since side loading is already available even before the OTA reaches the devices?? If YES then does rooting enable side loading?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the time yes. There is a built ROM from source within a matter of hours if not before most get the OTA. No rooting doesn't enable it. Just unlocked bootloader. Maybe soff depending on if there is a new radio.
And to be honest with all the issues with OTA I never advise using them.
Also looking at the video. You would have to flash a rom to get what you want anyway.
zelendel said:
Most of the time yes. There is a built ROM from source within a matter of hours if not before most get the OTA. No rooting doesn't enable it. Just unlocked bootloader. Maybe soff depending on if there is a new radio.
And to be honest with all the issues with OTA I never advise using them.
Also looking at the video. You would have to flash a rom to get what you want anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, doesnt it look cool That rom in the video is from Elegancia which is discontinued now! And is it advisable to unlock your bootloader using HTC Dev? I hear if we do that using htc dev, you will never be able to get the OTAs or am i being paranoid? (considering your suggestion of OTAs being problematic )
phsetaknev said:
Yeah, doesnt it look cool That rom in the video is from Elegancia which is discontinued now! And is it advisable to unlock your bootloader using HTC Dev? I hear if we do that using htc dev, you will never be able to get the OTAs or am i being paranoid? (considering your suggestion of OTAs being problematic )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest I stopped using gas sense 5 min after I got the device. I am one of the old school that remembers Sense before Android and think HTC killed it.
Yes you can use HTC dev to unlock the bootloader. I wish advise hitting up the device forum and reading up
Oh and on a side note. HTC comment about the L release was targeting the GPE version of the device. Not the sense version.
zelendel said:
To be honest I stopped using gas sense 5 min after I got the device. I am one of the old school that remembers Sense before Android and think HTC killed it.
Yes you can use HTC dev to unlock the bootloader. I wish advise hitting up the device forum and reading up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two more questions
1) How does putting a LOCKED message after unlocking the bootloader in the boot page helps? Most of the people are concerned about changing that message from UNLOCKED to LOCKED.
2) And will there be any problem if I just Unlock the bootloader and S-Off and continue using the Stock ROM from HTC that i have? I may root the device later, but keeping it like that could harm the device in any manner?
phsetaknev said:
Two more questions
1) How does putting a LOCKED message after unlocking the bootloader in the boot page helps? Most of the people are concerned about changing that message from UNLOCKED to LOCKED.
2) And will there be any problem if I just Unlock the bootloader and S-Off and continue using the Stock ROM from HTC that i have? I may root the device later, but keeping it like that could harm the device in any manner?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest They worry about it because if HTC sees that you unlocked your bootloader then your warranty is voided. While This is something most accept as a price you pay for modding your device, Some dont want to accept the responsability and try to commit fraud but altering the bootloader to relocked status.
no there should be no problem with just doing that. But to be honest there is no point until your ready to take it further.
zelendel said:
Oh and on a side note. HTC comment about the L release was targeting the GPE version of the device. Not the sense version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for your answers I shall look for info in other threads and try to contribute. And HTC has committed to provide all the updates for a new device for 2 years, and the leaks from llabfooter on twitter show that L will also be released for other HTC one series models
zelendel said:
To be honest They worry about it because if HTC sees that you unlocked your bootloader then your warranty is voided. While This is something most accept as a price you pay for modding your device, Some dont want to accept the responsability and try to commit fraud but altering the bootloader to relocked status.
no there should be no problem with just doing that. But to be honest there is no point until your ready to take it further.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wanted to post that's it Great seeing a Senior Moderator visiting the forums and answering questions