I don't know if it's me or setting "Home app in memory" on CM drains waaay more battery.
I have 1600 mAh battery that usually lasts 8 AM to midnight and still has 20-30% left. Whereas when I set my phone to keep home app in memory, the battery is under 50% before noon.
It sure will!
And this is why:
When you run a new program and the memory is filled, things need to be dumped from ram to make space.
The home application ONLY needs to be run while you are on the desktop -- it doesn't actually do anything when you have some other application in the foreground. If you force it to stay loaded in memory, then other things (background processes) will get dumped from memory instead -- things that need to be running more or less all the time. So what happens when you force the home application to stay in memory, is that these background processes get into a crazy cycle of constantly trying to RELOAD. Maybe bumping some other stuff out of memory to do so, causing those other things to get into constantly trying to reload. In other words, it causes a much higher CPU load and eats up your batter.
Makes sense, but is there anything that could help, like enabling compcache or swap?
lbcoder said:
It sure will!
And this is why:
When you run a new program and the memory is filled, things need to be dumped from ram to make space.
The home application ONLY needs to be run while you are on the desktop -- it doesn't actually do anything when you have some other application in the foreground. If you force it to stay loaded in memory, then other things (background processes) will get dumped from memory instead -- things that need to be running more or less all the time. So what happens when you force the home application to stay in memory, is that these background processes get into a crazy cycle of constantly trying to RELOAD. Maybe bumping some other stuff out of memory to do so, causing those other things to get into constantly trying to reload. In other words, it causes a much higher CPU load and eats up your batter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow...great explanation. Thanks! I'll disable this setting then.
Neejay said:
Wow...great explanation. Thanks! I'll disable this setting then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a trade-off. For me returning to the home from any app is way to slow unless I have that feature enabled.
Maybe it's because I have a widget and 8 icons on the main screen?
I have 2 widgets and 4 icons on home screen (total of 7 widgets and 25 icons on 5 screens) so for me disabling "keep home in memory" is not even an option lol
Even just having a lot of applications installed will make it take longer for launcher to start up.... it has to scan through all the programs installed, figure out what icon to use (and deal with it), figure out what name to use, build the menu, etc., etc., etc.
wheres the option for this?
You can find it in Spare Parts app on several ROMs (I use CM).
Not sure if you all are familiar with this app, I haven't seen anyone speak upon it on XDA yet, so just thought I'd share my experience with it.
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-lim-android-automemman-wBjq.aspx
IMO, this app is pretty cool. Very simple and easy to use, although it doesn't come with detailed instructions on how to use, so I felt the need to explain a little bit about it:
Tired of lags to and from Dialer/Contacts/Call Log?
Have you ever pressed the call button to dial a number/contact and nothing happens for 10 to 15 seconds then finally the call goes through and starts to ring?
Ever went back to home screen after fooling around with an app, or web surfing the browser only to find that a widget or two is missing or is not loading/refreshing properly?
Gmail not syncing daily as it usually does?
Market taking forever to load up the downloads page or lagging connection with G-talk to promptly start the download/updates you started?
Well these are the memory/background/content provider situations that need to stay snappy if nothing else does, agree?
Then this app may or may not be the answer to all of your problems.
For me it was. First and foremost, it is a FREE app, yay! (at least to my current knowledge, unless developer has changed it)
*FYI* This app does require root permissions, so if you are not rooted this will be of no use to you.
After installing, when first opening the app, super permissions should pop up, just check the always box and press allow for root access. Close the app, then re-open.
Now, there are 4 options you may choose, DEFAULT< CUSTOM< MILD< AGGRESSIVE
Default settings will be what you see on first use, those are the default Android memory settings for your G1
Custom- self explanatory, you move the bars of each memory category according to how you prefer- *Note* the amount shown is not exact memory, it is a threshold, basically a set amount not to exceed, Your phone will automatically choose how much to use according to how much it needs, but its limitations will be set by the threshold you choose. Go ahead and make your adjustments, then click the custom button, this will save these settings. So the next time you want to re-enter those settings, just hit the custom button, and it will restore.
Mild- Simply a preset application setting
Aggressive- Another preset app setting
You choose what works best for you, I would suggest playing around with different settings until you have achieved a memory usage that gives you the most improvement, *Note* Do note mistake this as a speed app, it only controls memory, so don't expect some super fast change, but if you set it up properly, and memory is being managed to the best case scenario of your usage, speed will increase, believe me.
Start with the presets, see how they work throughout the day, if you notice no difference, or worst than it already was, change it to something else.
Personally, my best experience has been with the Aggressive preset. Its been the most effective for my phone, however; this won't be the case for everyone. Aggressive basically raises the threshold for background data(widgets,home, cache, etc.) And content provider (google apps, settings, G-talk and stuff) And Empty application- this means, IMO, the amount of free memory sitting around available, for soon to come data or apps that you might open later, I.E.- multi-tasking, Call screen, new mms or sms
It also lowers the threshold of the foreground and running apps, so that they don't suck up so much memory the phone lags before it can open other things in memory. Get it? But as I stated, different people will have different preferences.
If you haven't already, try it out! If you don't like it, or don't need it...maybe results won't change things enough for you to have any use for it, you can always uninstall, and it won't harm any memory or data on your phone.
Also, regardless of threshold settings, if you open or use more memory than threshold limits, it will not break or crash you phone causing reboots or anything like that. So don't worry. The app does not prevent you from doing anything on your phone, it simply manages it according to your use.
I hope this comes in handy for someone, as it has been more than useful for me on a daily basis. You can find more information via market or the link above.
Don't take offence to this, but any "speedup" you think you are getting from it is entirely a function of the placebo effect.
There is no advantage to forcing memory to remain "free", and in fact, doing something like this will actually make the phone SLOWER than it would otherwise be.
Android has a VERY well thought out memory management system. It keeps a record of processes running and their priorities. In the event that more memory is required for a higher priority application, it will automatically select some other application to kill off in order to get that.
What this does is it ensures that you ALWAYS have the memory FULLY utilized, which means optimal performance under every circumstance.
An unfortunate trap that you are falling into is the traditional view of memory -- for example on a DESKTOP system, you don't have anything killing off unused processes, which means that every program you open will use up more memory, so the more FREE memory you have, the more new programs you can open before it starts swapping, and therefore you aim to always have a big chunk of free memory because more free memory means more applications can be open.
Android doesn't work like this!!!
What you are doing is forcing a memory utilization threshold on the thing. This has the same effect as simply reducing the total memory available on the device. That means that important applications are *MORE LIKELY TO GET KILLED OFF*.... which has exactly the OPPOSITE effect from what you seem to be after, which is to ensure that these important applications are NOT killed off.
I could be wrong, but I believe the intent of this is to allow the Android internal memory manager to be tweaked so that certain applications/processes have a higher priority and remain in memory and those that you deem as "less important" are removed first.
Here is a thread on the Hero forum about it:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=622666
Also, here is another App that does the same thing... only it will allow the settings to persist through a reboot...
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-rs-autokiller-wEwp.aspx
With this App, I do not notice an increase in free (meaning useless) memory... I do notice that key processes that I deem important are still running on CM 4.2.14.1... Even after running many of the ~160 apps I have, including games...
Individual results may vary... Nobody runs the same exact configuration and apps on their G1...
L8r
@Ibcoder
That means that important applications are *MORE LIKELY TO GET KILLED OFF*.... which has exactly the OPPOSITE effect from what you seem to be after, which is to ensure that these important applications are NOT killed off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But it doesn't do that, the threshold simply states a measurable amount of reserve...but not a limitation. Theres a difference. Limits and thresholds are not the same, So what you are saying is not how the app works. All apps open in memory remain in memory, of course you still have to use kill switches and task managers to control unwanted memory hogs, but the app basically controls the memory in use, thats all Im saying, so if that memory is being divided properly, responsive times will increase, I know android had its own setting of doing this, hence the word *DEFAULT*...that is what the app is for, if you don't want to let Android control your memory usage, the app gives you the option to customize it
Also, here is another App that does the same thing... only it will allow the settings to persist through a reboot...
http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-rs-autokiller-wEwp.aspx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool app! Thanks for the link, never seen this one.
But wouldn't auto kill be the same as all the other task managers and explorer apps? Its made to kill off unwanted apps, processes, and background services to free memory right? Well, I have plenty of those, and they all work quite fine.
The app I am discussing above is not a killer, its only a manager, it just gives the proper amount of memory to the category you specify to be more important memory users, thus for saving wasted memory. It doesn't specifically kill off or make memory, just manages it.
thanx though, I will try that out.
I recently saw this new app in the Market, but was unsure what advantage it will have on performance, if any. I'll pay attention to this thread to see where the discussion leads on it's usefulness (or potential lack thereof).
TeeJay3800 said:
I recently saw this new app in the Market, but was unsure what advantage it will have on performance, if any. I'll pay attention to this thread to see where the discussion leads on it's usefulness (or potential lack thereof).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, and I don't blame ya, that's how I test everything on xda, roms,apps, hacks, you name it....but only after I review enough good responses (preferably 3)
But on the contrary, there have been times that something was reviewed poorly, but after my own experience turned out to be great! You'll see that a lot in the android market as well, great apps with two star/3 star ratings all because some asshole didn't know how to use it, LoL
Try it dude, you got nothing to lose...won't break ya phone, but if ya want to play safe nandroid your current stuff first.
Klyentel said:
Cool app! Thanks for the link, never seen this one.
But wouldn't auto kill be the same as all the other task managers and explorer apps? Its made to kill off unwanted apps, processes, and background services to free memory right? Well, I have plenty of those, and they all work quite fine.
The app I am discussing above is not a killer, its only a manager, it just gives the proper amount of memory to the category you specify to be more important memory users, thus for saving wasted memory. It doesn't specifically kill off or make memory, just manages it.
thanx though, I will try that out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, they are pretty much the same... The XDA thread I mentioned above has both the Dev of the App you posted and the Dev of the App I posted... They both created one at around the same time... One with sliders and one with fields... The only difference I think is that AutoKiller uses a service to write the settings on a reboot...
Still playing with this to see if it makes any real difference... I know if I set the values too aggressive, then the browser reloads every time I come back to it...
I know if I set the values too aggressive, then the browser reloads every time I come back to it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah that has happened to me too.
The linux kernel keeps a buffer cache of recently used files in RAM. So whenever an application wants to access something on the flash, instead of going to the flash file system, it can just get it from the file buffer cache in RAM, a significant speed increase.
If the RAM is currently being taken up by unused android apps, then that leaves less room for the buffer cache, so in theory, by killing off unused android apps more quickly, that will allow the linux kernel to allocate more space for the buffer cache and thus speeding up the system.
Am I way off here?
Dave
lbcoder said:
Don't take offence to this, but any "speedup" you think you are getting from it is entirely a function of the placebo effect.
There is no advantage to forcing memory to remain "free", and in fact, doing something like this will actually make the phone SLOWER than it would otherwise be.
Android has a VERY well thought out memory management system. It keeps a record of processes running and their priorities. In the event that more memory is required for a higher priority application, it will automatically select some other application to kill off in order to get that.
What this does is it ensures that you ALWAYS have the memory FULLY utilized, which means optimal performance under every circumstance.
An unfortunate trap that you are falling into is the traditional view of memory -- for example on a DESKTOP system, you don't have anything killing off unused processes, which means that every program you open will use up more memory, so the more FREE memory you have, the more new programs you can open before it starts swapping, and therefore you aim to always have a big chunk of free memory because more free memory means more applications can be open.
Android doesn't work like this!!!
What you are doing is forcing a memory utilization threshold on the thing. This has the same effect as simply reducing the total memory available on the device. That means that important applications are *MORE LIKELY TO GET KILLED OFF*.... which has exactly the OPPOSITE effect from what you seem to be after, which is to ensure that these important applications are NOT killed off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@dwang-agreed, as I stated @lbcoder, what he is saying is that the app holds everything in memory which slows down system, but it does not do that, and he implied that I stated it limited use of apps, which is incorrect, it does not operate as a limiter, or a kill switch, only a manager. Sort of like, organizing processes by priority based upon setting of threshold tolerance. Of course killing off unwanted apps and processes have to be done manually, via kill widgets or file explorers, When I first posted about this app I assumed that concept to be in mind of the reader....sadly I was wrong. I guess everything around here has to be put in perspective as if the reader knows nothing...sort of like an "101 handbook for Dummies" type thing.
What you are suggesting is incorrect, contrary to the product description, and quite frankly, impossible.
And you can't read.
There is no "I" in lbcoder.
Klyentel said:
@Ibcoder
But it doesn't do that, the threshold simply states a measurable amount of reserve...but not a limitation. Theres a difference. Limits and thresholds are not the same, So what you are saying is not how the app works. All apps open in memory remain in memory, of course you still have to use kill switches and task managers to control unwanted memory hogs, but the app basically controls the memory in use, thats all Im saying, so if that memory is being divided properly, responsive times will increase, I know android had its own setting of doing this, hence the word *DEFAULT*...that is what the app is for, if you don't want to let Android control your memory usage, the app gives you the option to customize it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lbcoder said:
What you are suggesting is incorrect, contrary to the product description, and quite frankly, impossible.
And you can't read.
There is no "I" in lbcoder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First and foremost buddy, I quite frankly don't give a dam how you spell your name with an "I" or an "L"
Secondly, what I am stating is not incorrect, and is possible, because I have the app, use it everyday, and does exactly what I said it does via OP. Thank you very much. If you disagree, then don't download the app. Simple as that.
or heres a better idea create one of your own. I will be more than happy to try it if you feel you can do better, but don't downsize the quality of this one, straying other users away from trying it, as it may be as useful to them as it is me. Got it?
Now get ya DREAM on...(with android that is )
and leave me alone.
I've downloaded to my LG Optimus Black 30 apps til' now, I'm on Zeus V2.1
When I had the stock rom I had 100 apps!!
Does installing many apps necessarily slow down the phone? or It doesn't have to affect on the phone memory and speed?
On the one hand, I know that the phone is a lot faster when It has only few apps, and on the other hand, I have an Android Phone, Why not to have funny apps like lighter and games. What's your opinion?
Short answer: Mostly less is more...
Means: A lot of apps stay in memory and slow down ur phone, as u alread answered to urself, some even keep running in background and can keep the cpu from going to deep sleep mode, if they are not programmed well.
So yes, many apps slow down ur phone
Well, to describe it correctly, i would like you to explain that it's not the "numbers" of applications that matters.... I mean, we have a whole one GB of internal space, so we can easily afford 100+ applications.
So, it's actually the "type" of applications that give you a considerable effect on your device's performance.
# Example : i have installed TorrentFreak reader application. When i open it to read TF articles, it opens... when i exit it, it exits... shuts down completely. Now, i have installed UNO game from glu, which even if i don't open, it brings me advertisement notification.
So, the moral of story is, if i have installed hundreds of applications like TFreader, they won't cost me any RAM or any battery usage if i don't use it. But if i install just 10-15 apps like UNOgame of glu, they will use my data connection, RAM etc. in background even if i hardly use them.
So, always choose the application wisely, that's the point. Check their permissions, see if they add any "services" that may keep consuming your cpu cycles..... and you are good to go.
I know that android is very good at handling background processes and ram but I have so many apps that I don't use at all. They consume big amount of ram and for instance, sometimes browser loads pages again when I get back to it from another app. I assume this is because of ram. So I guess, if I can shut down some running apps in the background, available ram would be more.
I can see them at settings-apps-running(or cached processes).
For example, right now in "running" section I have 9 processes and 3 of them are poweramp, awesome beats, accuweather.com and in "cached processes" I have 10 processes and 6 of them are beautiful widgets,calendar storage,google account manager, google search, calendar, google play store. Other processes are system services that I have no problem with. When I go to developer settings-background process limit and block them, there are no cached processes anymore but that probably has a side effect. I wish I could choose which apps I want in the background.
I can shut down these apps manually but every time I restart the phone, they are there again. How can I stop them?
if you rooted, you can use Autostarts or ROM toolbox from the playstore. it can change the receivers of the apps not to start at boot
CooLasFcuK said:
I know that android is very good at handling background processes and ram but I have so many apps that I don't use at all. They consume big amount of ram and for instance, sometimes browser loads pages again when I get back to it from another app. I assume this is because of ram. So I guess, if I can shut down some running apps in the background, available ram would be more.
I can see them at settings-apps-running(or cached processes).
For example, right now in "running" section I have 9 processes and 3 of them are poweramp, awesome beats, accuweather.com and in "cached processes" I have 10 processes and 6 of them are beautiful widgets,calendar storage,google account manager, google search, calendar, google play store. Other processes are system services that I have no problem with. When I go to developer settings-background process limit and block them, there are no cached processes anymore but that probably has a side effect. I wish I could choose which apps I want in the background.
I can shut down these apps manually but every time I restart the phone, they are there again. How can I stop them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The simple answer is that you don't need to stop them!
As you say, Android is already very good at keeping track of background processes, to the extent that if a new program needs more RAM, Android itself will kill a background process that hasn't been used for a while to free up RAM for the new program.
The Cached processes screen SHOULD be full of recently used programs; it shows that Android is doing what it is supposed to do and is shifting inactive processes out of active RAM in case you want to load it again, without completely dumping the process memory.
Now, as for the side effect you mentioned, that would be a significant hit on battery life. By holding programs in RAM as it is supposed to do, the OS can load the program quickly and cleanly and more efficiently by simply reading the RAM rather than reading flash, writing to RAM, then reading from RAM. The general mantra for UNIX based systems is that unused RAM is wasted RAM.
Another thing to note is that if you do not close tabs when switching active programs (including going to homescreen) then the Browser is designed to hold that tab in memory. Even if you close the Browser (excluding closing the tab specifically with the "little x"). Even if you reboot the damn phone, it will still load the tabs/pages you had open last. The pages are not held in memory as such, just what was open and what tab order, so if you do open the browser after a while, it will load the last page from scratch.
TL;DR version: The running and the cached processes will remain exactly where they are until a new program needs more RAM than is available, at which point Android will kill something to make room. You do not need to do this manually. It will cause more power drain by making very inefficient use of RAM/Flash memory. Empty RAM is wasted RAM.
whilst Chaos is right, I notice severe performance drops when ram is filled, despite Androids theoretical advantage. It doesnt work...
Best to prevent from loading altogheter.
Root, lose warranty, backup apps, uninstall or freeze apps so the bloatware is removed.
For others, change autostart settings in Romtoolbox. So they wont start on boot.
Search for safe stuff to delete. There are lists for that
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Or just dont install the apps that you dont really need.
Via GtN7000
LoVeRice said:
Or just dont install the apps that you dont really need.
Via GtN7000
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, even then you might still need to remove bloatware lol
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Thanks so much for detailed answers.