Database Develop

Stock recovery and upgrading Lollipop with future OTAs after rooting

Hello everyone,
I'm back to a nexus 6 after a very short stint with a 6+.
A little background for my questions: This is the very first time that I rooted a phone. I'm rooting to only install these 3 apps:
adaway
titanium backup
greenify
I do not plan on using any custom ROMs or kernels.
I see from all the guides and tutorials that people also create a custom recovery whenever they root. I haven't done that yet and wasn't sure if I had to. I would like to maintain the stock recovery that I have currently so that I can go back to stock if I unRoot. My questions are:
1. Am I wrong in thinking that I can still use the stock recovery if I unRoot?
2. When a new OTA comes out and I flash it (since I'm rooted an no longer can install them automatically), will that also upgrade my still stock recovery properly?
3. Following up on the previous question, when I upgrade manually because I'm rooted, would that be a fresh install where I have to go in and configure things the way I like them again (system settings, apps and their settings, root the phone again, etc)?
Thanks in advance!

LordGrahf said:
Hello everyone,
I'm back to a nexus 6 after a very short stint with a 6+.
A little background for my questions: This is the very first time that I rooted a phone. I'm rooting to only install these 3 apps:
adaway
titanium backup
greenify
I do not plan on using any custom ROMs or kernels.
I see from all the guides and tutorials that people also create a custom recovery whenever they root. I haven't done that yet and wasn't sure if I had to. I would like to maintain the stock recovery that I have currently so that I can go back to stock if I unRoot. My questions are:
1. Am I wrong in thinking that I can still use the stock recovery if I unRoot?
2. When a new OTA comes out and I flash it (since I'm rooted an no longer can install them automatically), will that also upgrade my still stock recovery properly?
3. Following up on the previous question, when I upgrade manually because I'm rooted, would that be a fresh install where I have to go in and configure things the way I like them again (system settings, apps and their settings, root the phone again, etc)?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. No, you're not wrong. Recovery will stay stock and can be used normally
2. You can't simply flash the new OTA. This will not work manually nor automatically.
3. All you need to do is not flash the user data image and you will not loose your data, settings etc. You will loose root however. See bellow.
Google posts android stock images for each device typically before OTA hits your phone. That's what you want to grab and use for the update. Just make sure you don't run the automatic scripts that come with those images because you need to avoid flashing user data image.
OTA zip file does you no good unless you get your system back to unmodified stock.

Thank you sir!

obsanity said:
1. No, you're not wrong. Recovery will stay stock and can be used normally
2. You can't simply flash the new OTA. This will not work manually nor automatically.
3. All you need to do is not flash the user data image and you will not loose your data, settings etc. You will loose root however. See bellow.
Google posts android stock images for each device typically before OTA hits your phone. That's what you want to grab and use for the update. Just make sure you don't run the automatic scripts that come with those images because you need to avoid flashing user data image.
OTA zip file does you no good unless you get your system back to unmodified stock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on the OP, it sounds like he has only rooted. Thus, the OTA will work fine. No need to flash image files.
Edit: I see that at least one other member has stated that an unroot still did not allow OTAs to function. That's a bit strange and unique. Not sure what root is modifying to prevent the OTA.

I'm kinda curious myself. I had no idea root killed OTA's. Maybe I wouldn't have done that if I knew that. I'm very new to the Nexus device. It's my 1st. I unlocked the bootloader and rooted already.
Sent from Mark's Nexus 6

crowbarman said:
Edit: I see that at least one other member has stated that an unroot still did not allow OTAs to function. That's a bit strange and unique. Not sure what root is modifying to prevent the OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is pretty scary. So you can unroot and GI back to stock and still can't update in anyway?

I have always side-loaded OTAs, I have never flashed anything.
After installing an OTA, on the next reboot, Android takes some time to optimize all your apps. Does this also happen after flashing a new system image? Thanks!

LordGrahf said:
This is pretty scary. So you can unroot and GI back to stock and still can't update in anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not sure what you mean by GI, but according to some others, after uninstalling root via SuperSU an OTA will still not install. This should not be the case unless the boot or recovery images are modified. Easily fixed by following the procedures above to fastboot the stock images on your phone.
kjnangre said:
I have always side-loaded OTAs, I have never flashed anything.
After installing an OTA, on the next reboot, Android takes some time to optimize all your apps. Does this also happen after flashing a new system image? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it behaves exactly the same.

crowbarman said:
Based on the OP, it sounds like he has only rooted. Thus, the OTA will work fine. No need to flash image files.
Edit: I see that at least one other member has stated that an unroot still did not allow OTAs to function. That's a bit strange and unique. Not sure what root is modifying to prevent the OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root on Lollipop is not what it used to be. There are files that need to be modified in order to allow root. That's why this time OTA will fail if you are rooted.
Un-rooting however, will allow OTA as long as it is done properly and all traces are covered up and returned to stock. If it does fail after you have un-rooted, go back to the developer of that un-root method and let the know they missed something.
Here is the best way to un-root. Flash all of the old stock images besides user data image.

obsanity said:
Root on Lollipop is not what it used to be. There are files that need to be modified in order to allow root. That's why this time OTA will fail if you are rooted.
Un-rooting however, will allow OTA as long as it is done properly and all traces are covered up and returned to stock. If it does fail after you have un-rooted, go back to the developer of that un-root method and let the know they missed something.
Here is the best way to un-root. Flash all of the old stock images besides user data image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes sense. Is there a manual root procedure or list of required modifications for root out there? I did some precursors searches but Came up empty. Can't tell what's missing in SuperSU unroot without those details.

crowbarman said:
That makes sense. Is there a manual root procedure or list of required modifications for root out there? I did some precursors searches but Came up empty. Can't tell what's missing in SuperSU unroot without those details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Explanation from Chainfire:
https://plus.google.com/113517319477420052449/posts/S5zoKTzKUW1

obsanity said:
Explanation from Chainfire:
https://plus.google.com/113517319477420052449/posts/S5zoKTzKUW1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this. A good read, but I'm surprised nobody has demanded more details than 'patched the policies in SELinux'. Not that I don't trust Chain fire (I do) , but who really knows what has been done to our phones?

crowbarman said:
Thanks for this. A good read, but I'm surprised nobody has demanded more details than 'patched the policies in SELinux'. Not that I don't trust Chain fire (I do) , but who really knows what has been done to our phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the problem with Chainfire's work... he does not release source.
Again, best un-root method is to flash original images less user data.

obsanity said:
That's the problem with Chainfire's work... he does not release source.
Again, best un-root method is to flash original images less user data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing this info. Its a bit concerning tbh. Is there a cleaner way to root other than using superSU?

LordGrahf said:
Thanks for sharing this info. Its a bit concerning tbh. Is there a cleaner way to root other than using superSU?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm afraid not but Chainfire's is probably the cleanest possible. Koush was the one with an open source solution but he hasn't updated his to 5.0 yet.

obsanity said:
I'm afraid not but Chainfire's is probably the cleanest possible. Koush was the one with an open source solution but he hasn't updated his to 5.0 yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is an argument that publishing the method would allow Google to close it that much quicker, I suppose.

crowbarman said:
Thanks for this. A good read, but I'm surprised nobody has demanded more details than 'patched the policies in SELinux'. Not that I don't trust Chain fire (I do) , but who really knows what has been done to our phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The base changes and reasoning for those changes are actually documented on my website. Specific policy adjustments are present in plain text in the supolicy executable, as any hex editor will show you. Those who really wanted to know rather than whine about OSS, know.
By far most policy adjustments just drop audit log output for contexts that are already permissive, though.
All that information is still completely useless unless you understand SELinux in detail and how it's implemented on Android, though.

I assume that the encryption doesn't get in the way of being able to flash the images?
When I went from 5.0 to 5.0.1 on my old Nexus 5 all I did was flash the two new 5.0.1 images I extracted from the full factory image, then re-rooted. This is far cleaner than reverting back to the previous image then doing an OTA. I've not had to update my N6 yet so I don't know if my method will work still, but I hope it does.

Chainfire said:
The base changes and reasoning for those changes are actually documented on my website. Specific policy adjustments are present in plain text in the supolicy executable, as any hex editor will show you. Those who really wanted to know rather than whine about OSS, know.
By far most policy adjustments just drop audit log output for contexts that are already permissive, though.
All that information is still completely useless unless you understand SELinux in detail and how it's implemented on Android, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the additional information.
I did spend a fair amount of time reading your documentation but failed to utilize a hex editor. I am not 'whining' about the lack of open source, rather, simply mildly surprised, but your website aptly describes the challenges with 5.0. Many are used to various root methods being available.
Your solution is fine with me.. I love your work.
Edit: I thought I'd add that the discussion has devolved from the OP, which was whether an OTA can be applied after uninstalling root. The answer was no, due to the unknowns about what still might be modified following the uninstall via SuperSU.

[Q] Lost in the Sauce with rooting 4.4.4

Hey all,
As the title aludes to, I'm totally lost with rooting my note 3 running 4.4.4. I've been pokling around this site for a few hours but I'm not really seeing what I need. Basically all I want to do is be able to tether my note 3 (it's SIM unlocked on an african Carrier,. the phone is from at&t originally though). As I understand it, i need to root my phone in order to use this feature (f*ck AT&T). Anyway, I did use the search but I can't find any info on rooting a phone that is already on 4.4.4. Do i need to downgrade or is there an a way to root 4.4.4. In any case could someone give me a full step by step or point me in the right direction? I hate to be that guy posting duplicate threads but I'm kinda stuck. Sorry/thanks in advance.

Andre... said:
Hey all,
As the title aludes to, I'm totally lost with rooting my note 3 running 4.4.4. I've been pokling around this site for a few hours but I'm not really seeing what I need. Basically all I want to do is be able to tether my note 3 (it's SIM unlocked on an african Carrier,. the phone is from at&t originally though). As I understand it, i need to root my phone in order to use this feature (f*ck AT&T). Anyway, I did use the search but I can't find any info on rooting a phone that is already on 4.4.4. Do i need to downgrade or is there an a way to root 4.4.4. In any case could someone give me a full step by step or point me in the right direction? I hate to be that guy posting duplicate threads but I'm kinda stuck. Sorry/thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the forum.
No, there's no way to root 4.4.4 that I know of yet, you have to install 4.4.2, root it, flash a 4.4.4 that won't kill your data, then it should be rooted.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-3-att/general/n900aucucnc2-odin-files-t2838117 are the 4.4.2 (NC2) files. I don't have a link to the 4.4.4 files handy, but I'm sure they're in the development subforum. (You want the 4 separate files, not the all-in-one, so your data doesn't get overwritten - in both cases.) Get into 4.4.2, root with https://towelroot.com/ then go back to 4.4.4 (if you want - I'm still running 4.4.2, so I don't have to reflash kernels to get into SafeStrap; Mobile Odin doesn't work on the Note 3 yet, and I don't want to carry a laptop around in my pocket).
I think.
I went round and round with different ROMs all last week, reflashing 4.4.2 after each one, rooting, installing SafeStrap, restoring my data, etc., etc., until I can't remember exactly what the exact steps are, but I think I got it right.
And there are a few threads her on how to root 4.4.4 - with downgrading to 4.4.2, or just flashing the 4.4.2 kernel, or something.
But no, you can't directly root 4.4.4 yet.
As for tethering, see if there's a tethering app that will work without rooting, or just go to Settings/Connections and enable Tethering and see if that works. If it does, there's no reason to go through all the trouble of rooting (which is terrifying the first time you do it - and boring by the 10th).

Rukbat said:
Welcome to the forum.
No, there's no way to root 4.4.4 that I know of yet, you have to install 4.4.2, root it, flash a 4.4.4 that won't kill your data, then it should be rooted.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-3-att/general/n900aucucnc2-odin-files-t2838117 are the 4.4.2 (NC2) files. I don't have a link to the 4.4.4 files handy, but I'm sure they're in the development subforum. (You want the 4 separate files, not the all-in-one, so your data doesn't get overwritten - in both cases.) Get into 4.4.2, root with https://towelroot.com/ then go back to 4.4.4 (if you want - I'm still running 4.4.2, so I don't have to reflash kernels to get into SafeStrap; Mobile Odin doesn't work on the Note 3 yet, and I don't want to carry a laptop around in my pocket).
I think.
I went round and round with different ROMs all last week, reflashing 4.4.2 after each one, rooting, installing SafeStrap, restoring my data, etc., etc., until I can't remember exactly what the exact steps are, but I think I got it right.
And there are a few threads her on how to root 4.4.4 - with downgrading to 4.4.2, or just flashing the 4.4.2 kernel, or something.
But no, you can't directly root 4.4.4 yet.
As for tethering, see if there's a tethering app that will work without rooting, or just go to Settings/Connections and enable Tethering and see if that works. If it does, there's no reason to go through all the trouble of rooting (which is terrifying the first time you do it - and boring by the 10th).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info! I'll give it a try once I get home. Unfortunatly there's no way to tether on an unrooted unless at&t allows it (that I know of). And at&t cant allow it since I don't have them as a carrier right now. I've trid a couple apps from the appstore already and they either try to carrier verify or it's just a widget of the phones tethering function. I don't particularly care about flashing custom roms so if there's a way to tether in my situation then I'd love to try.

[Q] Pingpong root and Twrp Manager....???

Ok, so i googled a bit and do see that some people have had issues trying this, but most of the examples i was reading were on devices from carriers with locked bootloaders. Since the tmo version has an unloacked BL was wondering if anyone has tried this or not?
I was thinking of simply using flashify or twrp manager to install recovery from within my currently rooted (superuser) rom. Most people that have tried using locked bootloaders endup with a soft brick from what i have seen. Just not sure how much the unlocked bootloader would help us in this situation.
I know i can just use CF auto root but was trying to do it without tripping knox really. However, i have never had issues with any warranty through tmobile (rooted, tripped knox, whatever) and with the announcement of android pay, i am way less interested in samsung pay so tripped knox wouldnt be the end of the world... but still curious
EDIT: So apparently chainfire just released something called flashfire that appears it can do exactly what i am looking for. Anyone else looking for the same should check it out...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/paid-software/flashfire-t3075433

So, this will not trip knox? I'm currently stock waiting for the 5.1 update to see if it's worth it to keep stock or root my phone. I just want to root it so bad because I could hypothetically get double battery life with the tweaks I would do. I'm interested in Samsung Pay (sorta) but if Google Wallet/Android Pay will have the same functions, then IDC.

darklime said:
So, this will not trip knox? I'm currently stock waiting for the 5.1 update to see if it's worth it to keep stock or root my phone. I just want to root it so bad because I could hypothetically get double battery life with the tweaks I would do. I'm interested in Samsung Pay (sorta) but if Google Wallet/Android Pay will have the same functions, then IDC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you install recovery no matter what method it will trip. For Roms, Flashfire won't trip as long as you don't flash boot.img aka kernel. You need to remove it before flashing

Question rooting

is it possible to root my galaxy s21u? if possible how should it be done and is it safe to do so?

seancannery88 said:
is it possible to root my galaxy s21u? if possible how should it be done and is it safe to do so?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure if Exynos can be root as of now...If you are on the SD version, there are some posts here that show how to unlock the BL, install magisk and SU...but honestly, it's best to wait until some foolproof method is out...whatever be the case, you will lose Knox and other Knox related stuff

Exynos can be rooted I believe, but ask yourself why you want or need to root your phone.
I've had various Android phones since around 2009, and this is the first Android device I've owned that I haven't immediately rooted, and don't immediately see the need to. Previously, I mainly rooted because I wanted XprivacyLUA, Viper4Android and AFWall (amongst other things like Titanium Backup and Root Explorer but they're the main three). However, in the 3 weeks I've had this phone I've not really missed them. I use Netguard for a firewall, and the DAC appears to be good enough to not really need Viper. XPrivacy is a miss, but not one I can l can't deal with.
I'm not ruling out rooting it at some point in the future. I've just decided it's not required right now. Especially as I've started using Samsung Pay and that would immediately and permanently be lost once Knox is tripped.

Question Question regarding root and updates?

Hey there guys,
I just received my s21 ultra (G998B) and planning to root it. I had a few questions since I’m new to this and wanted some clarifications:
1) If I root the phone can I update it OTA through the settings or do I have to update it by another method? Will I lose root/data/apps if I do that?
2) If I lose root when updating it, can I just root again and be all set? Or do I have to follow another procedure for that?
3) I am planning to debloat a few apps and services that I won’t be using, if I update the system/software will the stuff that I debloated come back and will I have to do the debloat again?
Thank you for all the help.

paul_cherma said:
Hey there guys,
I just received my s21 ultra (G998B) and planning to root it. I had a few questions since I’m new to this and wanted some clarifications:
1) If I root the phone can I update it OTA through the settings or do I have to update it by another method? Will I lose root/data/apps if I do that?
2) If I lose root when updating it, can I just root again and be all set? Or do I have to follow another procedure for that?
3) I am planning to debloat a few apps and services that I won’t be using, if I update the system/software will the stuff that I debloated come back and will I have to do the debloat again?
Thank you for all the help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1- Probably not usually the root or recovery will block OTA updates from installing, even if they download.
2- If you lose root, you can USUALLY re-root assuming the same root method wasnt patched. If it was patched, a new root method (though probably still through magisk) will be needed. If this is the case, its up to the dev to find that method, you might be without root for a while.
3-if you debloat, and receive an OTA, your will probably need to de-bloat again, thought I havent personally had experience with this.
Why are you rooting? Just to de-bloat? If so, root isn't really necessary...

As someone who's been in the rooting stage for many years, i can answer your questions.
1. You can not update your phone through OTA updates after rooting the device, as the device was modified in an unauthorized way. And since you own a galaxy phone, the e-fuse within the motherboard will blow and knox will be permanently blown. You can no longer use samsung pay, google pay, and any other app that uses the safetynet api, even after you unroot the device.
2. You will lose root every time you update. You will need ODIN on your PC in order to properly update your firmware and to re-root your device by following the procedure again that you used to root your device, unless samsung patched the method you used to root your device. You can always check what bootloader version you're on within the firmware. For example, on the galaxy S8, the firmware version is N950U1UES5CRG9. The 5th to last number of the firmware will tell you. In this case, N950U1UES5CRG9 is the 5th bootloader version. Keep this in mind once samsung starts to update your phone often.
3. You will have to debloat again from scratch. In order to fully update your device through ODIN, you need to download the full firmware file containing an AP (Firmware), BL (Bootloader) , CP (Modem), and CSC (Carrier File) and manually flash them.
Do keep in mind, it is possible to soft brick or even hard brick your device, so back up your data frequently if you decide to tinker with your device.

Thank you for the detailed answer. I just updated my software to the latest official one by Samsung (April 1st security patch) but I am not rooted yet. I guess I could live with the fact that I can root the phone now and stay on this software version/security patch until I upgrade, since I would have to go through a lot of hassle to set-up the phone the way I wanted. But the main reason why I want to get the official updates is because of the camera improvements that Samsung does, since the main reason of me getting this phone is the camera. And there are some root-required tweaks that I absolutely need such as Viper, and some xposed tweaks also. I like the Stock ROM of Samsung, it really has come a long way at least imo throughout the years, as I have been a Samsung user since day 1 but:
Would it be a good idea to install a custom ROM then? I am reading the description of a few custom ROMs and it seems like I can “retain everything” by simply dirty flashing the ROM and following the dev’s instructions on how to retain root whenever the developer updates it. Is that a better route to take you think? I can keep my device rooted, and still get the updates through a custom ROM.

paul_cherma said:
Thank you for the detailed answer. I just updated my software to the latest official one by Samsung (April 1st security patch) but I am not rooted yet. I guess I could live with the fact that I can root the phone now and stay on this software version/security patch until I upgrade, since I would have to go through a lot of hassle to set-up the phone the way I wanted. But the main reason why I want to get the official updates is because of the camera improvements that Samsung does, since the main reason of me getting this phone is the camera. And there are some root-required tweaks that I absolutely need such as Viper, and some xposed tweaks also. I like the Stock ROM of Samsung, it really has come a long way at least imo throughout the years, as I have been a Samsung user since day 1 but:
Would it be a good idea to install a custom ROM then? I am reading the description of a few custom ROMs and it seems like I can “retain everything” by simply dirty flashing the ROM and following the dev’s instructions on how to retain root whenever the developer updates it. Is that a better route to take you think? I can keep my device rooted, and still get the updates through a custom ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That really varies depending on the custom rom you go for. Usually when you dirty flash a rom, you would need to re root your device, but some (not all) roms are persistent with root after system updates. Do keep in mind if you switch to a custom rom, your system might be more buggy and crash more often. One thing i will say though is that xposed is outdated. The last android version xposed officially supported was either 8 or 9. When it has to come down to certain mods you'd wish to have with root, take that into consideration too, as it might make your device really unstable if it's too outdated or if there's a buggy port available. I've dealt with that issue too many times on my phones.

HighOnLinux said:
That really varies depending on the custom rom you go for. Usually when you dirty flash a rom, you would need to re root your device, but some (not all) roms are persistent with root after system updates. Do keep in mind if you switch to a custom rom, your system might be more buggy and crash more often. One thing i will say though is that xposed is outdated. The last android version xposed officially supported was either 8 or 9. When it has to come down to certain mods you'd wish to have with root, take that into consideration too, as it might make your device really unstable if it's too outdated or if there's a buggy port available. I've dealt with that issue too many times on my phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if xposed is outdated, what is the new thing the comunity is migrating to? All the privacy, security, and customizability tools available through xposed must go somewhere, right?

Twodordan said:
if xposed is outdated, what is the new thing the comunity is migrating to? All the privacy, security, and customizability tools available through xposed must go somewhere, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's buggy ports thats flashable on magisk. While you still can get xposed, it'll be an unofficial version, and more likely to run into issues within your rom and daily use into your device.

HighOnLinux said:
There's buggy ports thats flashable on magisk. While you still can get xposed, it'll be an unofficial version, and more likely to run into issues within your rom and daily use into your device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean xprivacy on xposed was the must have killer feature for any android device to turn your device into anything other than a privacy nightmare. If we can't do that any more we are f'd.
[EDIT] Looks like the new version of xprivacy, xprivacyLua is still supported for android 11, with magisk and EdXposed or LSPosed:
[CLOSED][APP][XPOSED][6.0+] XPrivacyLua - Android privacy manager [UNSUPPORTED]
XPrivacyLua Really simple to use privacy manager for Android 6.0 Marshmallow and later (successor of XPrivacy). Revoking Android permissions from apps often let apps crash or malfunction. XPrivacyLua solves this by feeding apps fake data...
forum.xda-developers.com
XPrivacyLua/README.md at master · M66B/XPrivacyLua
Really simple to use privacy manager for Android 6.0 Marshmallow and later - XPrivacyLua/README.md at master · M66B/XPrivacyLua
github.com