Database Develop

why old processor?

why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc

t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because Microsoft only support the "old" snapdragon .

why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor

t3rm3y said:
but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
QUOTE]
Sorry I'm the one that had to break the news, but there is always something better coming...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

hoss_n2 said:
why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and 10char

t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7, it is lag free and very responsive, I think the processor will be up to the task as long as the coding is optimal.

Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.

Lorddeff07 said:
Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True that.

Old processor?
Maybe this is a bad news to you, but it's good to me cause of my hd2.

I probably would have been crying about the same thing, if technology was growing by leaps and bounds. But its not right now, technology is kinda stagnate as of lately. Yes, the HD7 has the same processor as its predecessor the HD2, but its not a bad thing. especially now that the new rom has came out for the HD2, it feels faster than ever (you can go on the HD2 and Leo boards to attest for yourself). Another thing to remember, is that the new Windows Phone 7, is not an OS that needs a 2Ghz processor to run buttery smooth. I think that we are used to the PC ideology that the next thing should have a higher number than the last, in order to be considered and respectable upgrade. But even those Intel and AMD processors, reached their, threshold for raw computing power (for now) and the companies are now refining their codes, and drivers, in order to utilize and maximize peak performance out of what they already have. (That's why 4Ghz desktop processors aren't mainstream yet)
Another thing is the WP7 is standardized with base set requirements for internal specs. I truly doubt that you'll find a noticeable difference between all the launch devices behavior with the OS, because of their processors. The mail screen might open up a little quicker on one device, but again, that could be a driver code magic for the display adapter in a particular phone, so the one that "wins" in our mind, should have been the "newer, speedier" processor but because of the refinement and more developed drivers, the one that displayed the inbox quicker was the "older" processor. (I hope you guys got that...lol)
So what I'm trying to say at the end of the day, is it really doesn't matter about the processor spec, because whats inside the HD7 is more than plenty to run the OS and its apps very very nicely.

Do Windows Phone 7 devices need to be multi-core?

The debate is raging and is splitting the community in 2...
So I thought lets have a poll.
Let's be honest, even with a single core, WP7 devices DON'T lag. But just because having multi-core becoming a fashion statement, do WE need it?

Only spec whores care about dual core and overclocking...I've had this since December 2010, I don't get lags..WP doesn't need it...yet.
Sent from The Syndicate using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

i believe, in fact, that is a consumer gimmick.
consumers are 'bred' to think, "the bigger, the better."
and a dual-core is better than a single-core.
just isn't necessary for WP7 like it is with the fragmented Android.
so, yeah, it is all about the specs.

sh4d0w86 said:
i believe, in fact, that is a consumer gimmick.
consumers are 'bred' to think, "the bigger, the better."
and a dual-core is better than a single-core.
just isn't necessary for WP7 like it is with the fragmented Android.
so, yeah, it is all about the specs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree...the fact about dual core processors is this - a dual core processor is just half the job done. You applications need to RECOGNIZE the other damn processor and make use of it. (1 example is the Safari for iPhone 4S that recognizes the dual core chipset and makes optimum use of it.)

Windows phone don't need dual core to run apps casue thats how its built.
Microsoft is very good with support for old hardware like you can run windows 7 on an old pentium 4 pc which is good that unlike android almost all windows phones will get newer updates as they are rolled out.
Also remember Nokia is aiming for the budget phone customers as It admitted long ago that the Higher end phone market has too much competition for it while the lower end is still a strong point for nokia, hence their partnership with MS makes sense.
And keeping costs low will help both Nokia and MS to crack the phone market a bit more

Please remember the famous Bill Gates quote...
"who would ever need more than 256kb of RAM?" ( not a direct quote, blame my memory )
The OS in the current state doesn't need that obviously, it works flawlessly. But dual-core gives us space for improvement - both in the OS and apps. So...it's not necessary, but i wouldn't go as far as to say it's not needed.
But still, we don't need to put dual-core chips in every Windows Phone. A wide range of prices, equipment etc. is definitely a perk.

What's to debate?
Do current Windows phones have multiple cores? No.
Do they work? Yes.
Case closed. On to the next thread...

My answer, Why not!? If it can be done without negatively affecting functionality, the technology should push forward leading to more opportunities for developers.

DoogieDC said:
What's to debate?
Do current Windows phones have multiple cores? No.
Do they work? Yes.
Case closed. On to the next thread...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Case is not closed. Right now, even Mango phones do not support dual core processors. That is the main reason why HTC is still using single core processor in its flagship windows phone (Titan / Ultimate).
Multi core support will come with Apollo update.

xpPhone 2

Not Android related by any means, but just perusing the net I stumbled upon an article about a phone called the xpPhone 2 running Win 7 & 8.
The thing that caught my eye though was its combined storage capacity of 112gb. & 18.5 hours of talk time and the ability to upgrade the ram, all within a 4.3" screen.
Currently it's only available in China.
http://en.xpphone.com/news/kuaibao/114.html

I spoke to them
I already spoke to them and it seems like a very interesting toy/weapon. Being a road warrior this would really lighten the load. Will follow how it develops closely!

1 inch thick Phone with extra battery and packing a Netbook processor.
Sounds severely underpowered for Windows but an Intel Atom would smoke any mobile processor lol.

I doubt it. At 1.6 single core. Thing blows. My phone is faster than my netbook.

CBowley said:
I doubt it. At 1.6 single core. Thing blows. My phone is faster than my netbook.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cores & GHz don't mean anything. x86 is a very fast, and faster than ARM. Arm just is better performance for power use. Plus you could install Androidx86.

Intel displayed something at ces that had a atom proc. If you watch mwc I bet they will have something about it too ...supposed to be bad ass
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Please dont believe that you will get a smartphone with this device.
Using xpphone1 showed me that it is a UMPC with a small phone-function. There is no automatic sync with outlook and no calendar with a reminder-function. The phone-software is very unstable and so you are not always reachable like using a "normal" handy. The camera for skype and photos is not in place, under the lens there is simply nothing. These are only examples out of the long list of problems. Questions to ITG (even if these problems are solved with xpphone2) are not answered. So if you need more than a technical gimmick any other smartphone will do a better job.

[Q]How can we Close Application in an Easier way?

Hi Forum, I hope this is the right forum to pose this question and to discuss the topic
ok the question:
Am I the only one who is bugged by the fact that, to close most applications in WP (wheter it is active or in background), we have to tap the "Back" button as many times as the number of pages? here are some pics so you can understand my point xD
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9092/31238975.png
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5176/30856883.png
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4329/28248076.png
As you can see from the last 2 pics, in this case, the user has to click backwards at least 2 times in order to close the application.
Wouldn't it be better to have a small icon in order to close the application completly?
Something like:
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2318/50922462.png
So! What are your opinions?
Is there something like this already?
Do you think that a mod or something could help out with this "problem"?
Do you think WP8 has a feature/solution for this?
Or is it just something personal xD ?

There is no other way but there is also no need.
The background applications do not consume CPU like they do on android, and if memory is needed, the OS simply closes them down.

mcosmin222 said:
There is no other way but there is also no need.
The background applications do not consume CPU like they do on android, and if memory is needed, the OS simply closes them down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well many, do still think that closing apps directly is better...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/6/3464142/wp8-fixes-multi-tasking

Taurenking said:
Well many, do still think that closing apps directly is better...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/6/3464142/wp8-fixes-multi-tasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it would seem and though they are thinking about the whole thing wrong this mind set cant be ignored even if it is wrong. A lot of people come from the Android ios world of background tasks killing battery life and performance.
Maybe if they have a close app in the tiles screen to address these concerns. Even if you know something is not needed if the customer thinks (even wrongly) that it is then you are going to look like your product is not as good even though you know as an expert that it is. I get this all the time in my job and that's why I use the mother test, I send an idea to my mother and if she gets it then I know its good if not I rework it.

Idk about IOS but in android it is a mistake to close down applications in most cases.
In fact, many people don't know that pressing the close button does not actually close the app, but move it to cached processes. You then have to kill it again in there to finish the job.
Anyway, many apps are persistent in android. Killing them will only make the system want to restore them again, thus eating more CPU than they would have if they were running.
On the other hand, they do represent a resource hug when not closed.
SO on this aspect, android does have a big problem with its multitasking and this is the main reason why android is such a resource hog, and requires quad core CPUs and loads of RAM to get the job done right. And google isn't doing much about this, in fact they continue with the resource waist, which will inevitably put a cap on how much android can do.
As for Windows Phone, it is fairly easy to restore the application to its stage before closing it down. People just don't know about that (and neither most of the developers).

Android phone and WP7 phone have almost same battery life, however, android has true multitasking but not in WP7, which means WP7 actually comsume more power. From my point of view, if I want to close an app, I don't want to see it appear in the backgroud. This give the chance to run it unexpectedly if I accidently tap it in multitask screen

The battery life is a non-issue with multitasking.
It doesn't matter how many apps are running, the CPU uses the same amount of power.
On the other hand, android is much slower than windows phone, which is because the android multitasking is a resource hog that is not really needed.
Remember we are on phones after all, not super computer.

If there is not much to do CPUs clock down or go to sleep completely for some time therefore reducing power consumption. On Multi-Cores in low utilization cores are sometimes completely powered down. So if only one program is running and it's not a game needing the CPUs full power it's highly likely that the CPU will use much less power.
If instead I have several Apps running in the background then I have a higher CPU utilization that doesn't really help me with what I'm currently doing (with the foreground app). That is why background Apps are frozen on iOS and WP unless they do something specifically allowed (so nothing happens in the background that's not really necessary).

mcosmin222 said:
On the other hand, android is much slower than windows phone, which is because the android multitasking is a resource hog that is not really needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One could argue your point. I'll agree that WP7 runs great with low spec phones, but the new Android devices are simply faster. Compared to my mom's SGIII, my Arrive is painfully slow at loading apps and websites. Also, the SGIII lasts considerably longer than my Arrive, which shows that poor battery life on android devices are a thing of the past*.
Dont get me wrong, I want the WP platform to succeed(I think its a great OS), but it still has a long way to go; and limiting the max spec of WP8 to barely beyond current generation tech really sets the bar low.
*yes, I'm aware of the SGIII's battery size. Still, I can easily get two days out of it, vs my Arrive lasting 1-1.5 days

StevieBallz said:
If there is not much to do CPUs clock down or go to sleep completely for some time therefore reducing power consumption. On Multi-Cores in low utilization cores are sometimes completely powered down. So if only one program is running and it's not a game needing the CPUs full power it's highly likely that the CPU will use much less power.
If instead I have several Apps running in the background then I have a higher CPU utilization that doesn't really help me with what I'm currently doing (with the foreground app). That is why background Apps are frozen on iOS and WP unless they do something specifically allowed (so nothing happens in the background that's not really necessary).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The core clock is a non-issue on android.
You will never be able to stop all applications, some of them (most of them) return minutes latter, because the OS is programmed to restore them. Many poorly programed applications behave like system applications and they keep running all the time.Standards are pretty low in Android. Which is why things like app closers, scheduled task managers and other stuff like that exist.
One could argue your point. I'll agree that WP7 runs great with low spec phones, but the new Android devices are simply faster. Compared to my mom's SGIII, my Arrive is painfully slow at loading apps and websites. Also, the SGIII lasts considerably longer than my Arrive, which shows that poor battery life on android devices are a thing of the past*.
Dont get me wrong, I want the WP platform to succeed(I think its a great OS), but it still has a long way to go; and limiting the max spec of WP8 to barely beyond current generation tech really sets the bar low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compare the specs of the new android phones. Compare their prices as well.
SGIII literally has 4 times the processing power of the highest end WP7.5 devices currently on the market, and performance is comparable between the two. WP is an awesome platform. Android is not even close.

mcosmin222 said:
Compare the specs of the new android phones. Compare their prices as well.
SGIII literally has 4 times the processing power of the highest end WP7.5 devices currently on the market, and performance is comparable between the two. WP is an awesome platform. Android is not even close.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The US spec SGIII uses the Krait processor, not the quad core. While it would be comparing apples to oranges, in a sense, I still stand by my case: with the proper hardware, the Android platform can be just as effective.
My stance stems from the arguement that WP7 is a better OS because it runs very well on basic hardware. This claim drove me nuts because M$ was so bent on proving that point, that flagship devices ran on half the hardware Android phones of that generation were currently utilizing.
Comparatively, it's the difference between running XP and Vista on legacy hardware vs current hardware.. People were knocking Vista because it was a resource hog and ran like crap on most computers; on the other hand, it runs better than XP machines when kitted out with newer hardware. One OS runs very well on less specs, but plateus very quickly, where the other platform requires more resources, but scales better when properly complemented.
In essence, WP7 is XP
I hope you arent portraying me as an Android fanboy, because I'm not; I'm just being brutally honest here. I really want to see WP8 succeed where WP7 fell flat, but seeing MS fitting compatibility specs of WP8 devices with fairly short outlook leaves me feeling uneasy.
BTW: I've been using Microsoft PDA's and smartphones since 2004, and have used both android and iOS devices for about six months out of those eight years. Juust so you know where I come from =)

Actually the OS does quite often not have that much influence on actual application performance. The big criticism of Android has always been that it tended to perform crappy (force closes, stutters) even on high end hardware. Some of that has to do with process priorization, some with missing hardware acceleration, etc. Google is working on that with every new release.
Especially in games one noticed that the devices lacked in real power on the hardware side. Another problematic decission was the use of the panorama controls. Those are side-scrolling controls with very often vertical endless scrollers inside them. This is actually rather complex to render and I would guess is responsible for most of the badly performing apps around. This is further complicated by the fact that non-developers rarely can grasp intuitively the actual computational cost associated with certain visuals (hence the often cited: WPs minimalist design is easier to compute then Android/iOSs more complex UI elements).
Microsoft was aiming at the possibility to produce cheaper devices. There were citations that the average WP7.5 device only cost $200 to produce. That strategy obviously didn't work out so well. Maybe due to the fact that the devices still were sold at flagship prices.

StevieBallz said:
Especially in games one noticed that the devices lacked in real power on the hardware side. Another problematic decission was the use of the panorama controls. Those are side-scrolling controls with very often vertical endless scrollers inside them. This is actually rather complex to render and I would guess is responsible for most of the badly performing apps around. This is further complicated by the fact that non-developers rarely can grasp intuitively the actual computational cost associated with certain visuals (hence the often cited: WPs minimalist design is easier to compute then Android/iOSs more complex UI elements).
Microsoft was aiming at the possibility to produce cheaper devices. There were citations that the average WP7.5 device only cost $200 to produce. That strategy obviously didn't work out so well. Maybe due to the fact that the devices still were sold at flagship prices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That'sbut back to the topic: the fact is that wheter it consumes cpu or not, the average user would like it to be easier to "kill" an application without pressing the "GoBack" button multiple times. That's the main argument. Leave all the CPU, and Core Processor argument behind , cuz WP os deals beautifully with this...

Lower end but good phones?

Hey all...
I am considering a Windows Phone 8.
But, I can't decide if a lower-end WP8 is worth the money. Take for example, an HTC 8S.
It costs 19,000 here. That's 350$. And even the LUMIA 820 is about 400$ though no official price is out yet.
My question, from a future perspective, are these phones worth buying? Or only the top end models will sustain what the future has to throw at it?
Like, for example: Already a couple of games are built with minimum 1GB RAM. 512MB of the 8S outdated already?
In short, is it an investment or a waste of money?
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.

The chance of the new WP8 devices being phased out soon(next 2 years or so) is really small, so buying a WP, regardless of specs, is a good idea. You will have support from MS and OEM.

I'd buy it again...
Depends on what you want.
If you need a buttload of apps, the 8s is not for you due to the tiny internal storage. If you play high-end games, it's not for you either due to the limited RAM.
I have 19 apps installed, never play games, but use the browser and other internet related apps all day long, and am extremely happy with purchasing the 8S.
I see from your signature you're running MIUI on your android. If your like me, that's because android is ugly, and for some reason just not cutting it, which leads to flashing all sorts of ROM's, trying to find that sweet spot of smartphone heavenness... I've found that in the midrange HTC 8S (who'd have thought?)! It has great battery life, great sound output, never lags, great build quality, great looks etc.
Also my personalisation 'OCD' is well satisfied with the extremely custimizable homescreen, which was a major concern for me. It does all this while maintaining an uniform look.
I am positively surprised by the HTC 8S, as well as by Windows Phone 8.
I'd buy it again in a heartbeat.

jodeltje said:
Depends on what you want.
If you need a buttload of apps, the 8s is not for you due to the tiny internal storage. If you play high-end games, it's not for you either due to the limited RAM.
I have 19 apps installed, never play games, but use the browser and other internet related apps all day long, and am extremely happy with purchasing the 8S.
I see from your signature you're running MIUI on your android. If your like me, that's because android is ugly, and for some reason just not cutting it, which leads to flashing all sorts of ROM's, trying to find that sweet spot of smartphone heavenness... I've found that in the midrange HTC 8S (who'd have thought?)! It has great battery life, great sound output, never lags, great build quality, great looks etc.
Also my personalisation 'OCD' is well satisfied with the extremely custimizable homescreen, which was a major concern for me. It does all this while maintaining an uniform look.
I am positively surprised by the HTC 8S, as well as by Windows Phone 8.
I'd buy it again in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for your reply. It is just strange how u guessed it right that I have gone through a trazillion ROMs to arrive at one. Android IS ugly. In fact, after buying my OWN iPad Mini, (I got dad an iPad 2 for his birthday few months back) I realize what Android actually is, an UGLY twin of iOS.
Plus, the number of malware attacks, and the number of permissions granted by us to the apps is just scary.
Now coming to WP & 8S more specifically, the only thing worrying me is that some good games have already been developed that require at least 1GB RAM. The games that need 512 MB RAM look like student projects to me. That made me think twice. I haven't even bought the device and its outdated. I am not a gaming person at all. In fact, I am going to install not more than 10 apps, just like you.
The problem isn't LUMIA 820. The problem is I am in love with 8S.
And, god forbid, if 820 also becomes outdated half a dozen months later, I will be doomed.
But I get what you are saying, 8S is good. Period.
mcosmin222 said:
The chance of the new WP8 devices being phased out soon(next 2 years or so) is really small, so buying a WP, regardless of specs, is a good idea. You will have support from MS and OEM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 years? I heard new devices will be announced in the upcoming CES 2013?
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.

Even if new devices come around, the "old" ones will not be phased out of support.
As far as games are concerned, the 8s is not exactly the phone that is aimed at gamers. You still have a lot of nice 512 RAM games, you just need to find them (99% of all apps in the marketplace are aimed at 512 devices). The biggest problem with the 8s is the storage size: out of 4 GB, at least 1.5 is taken by the system, and you can't install things on SD card.

mcosmin222 said:
Even if new devices come around, the "old" ones will not be phased out of support.
As far as games are concerned, the 8s is not exactly the phone that is aimed at gamers. You still have a lot of nice 512 RAM games, you just need to find them (99% of all apps in the marketplace are aimed at 512 devices). The biggest problem with the 8s is the storage size: out of 4 GB, at least 1.5 is taken by the system, and you can't install things on SD card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks...i was wondering if any way to check how much RAM a game needs. The MS Store on the desktop browser shows everything but that.
Sent from my RaZr on MIUI.

Applications you can't install are hidden by default in the marketplace.