Last week I was watching a US TV program in which I noticed that several people from all over the US pronounced "Houston" as "How-ston". How stunned I was. Just like in 1995, when I ordered a bunch of routers and my supplier wanted me to believe that "row-ter" was the correct pronunciation.
I'm old enough to remember those historical words "Houston, the Eagle has landed". Houston sounded like you-ston from Neil Armstrong's mouth, and the whole world knew what he was talking about.
Remember that song "Get your kicks on Route 66"? Route, not rowte.
It didn't take much Googling to find out that these changes in pronunciation are the deliberate work of ignorant language purists who believe that English should sound as if there are no foreign influences whatsoever. Route and Houston sound too French by their opinion, English does have the ou that sounds like ow (indeed, like in "sound") so lets put that pronunciation wherever we can...
The very English unavoidable word YOU as far as I know is in no dialect ever pronounced as "yow". Yes, it is historically related to the French "vous".
So, should you perform the same rape to it as to Howston and rowte?
Take an etymological dictionary and see: every word in any language has its roots in other languages. The original English language was Gaelic, then came the Saxons, then the Romans, next the Normands and Vikings, then French, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese influences etc. It's a historical fact that victors in wars and successful business nations have a dominant influences on other languages.
If native English speakers start trying to deny that by raping their own language and turning it into something artificial it might well end up on the pile of artificial, hardly spoken, rudimentary languages like Esperanto, Interlingua and Ido.
Route, You, Router, Houston. They all sound the same in English. However we got to the English language, as you mentioned, then that is it.
If Americans or other countries want to pronounce them differently then that is their choice, but as long as you know what you want to say and how, and the various ways of saying it differently...
Any changes you want to make won't happen overnight though. I could take generations to get it right, if indeed it was ever wrong, as there are always going to be cultural differences.
Of course, I'm probably just wibbling here. So I'll go back to the forums
HNY BTW
Elwyn M3100 said:
Any changes you want to make won't happen overnight though. I could take generations to get it right, if indeed it was ever wrong, as there are always going to be cultural differences.
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Happy New Year to you and all
I do get the impression that the US is actually trying to create its own language overnight. And I'm very sorry to see/hear that more and more native speakers of the Queen's English are actually very susceptible for US influences.
I think that the US's influence on language is more prevailant than we would probably like to think. Mostly down to satellite news coverage and worldwide distribution of media...
Elwyn M3100 said:
I think that the US's influence on language is more prevailant than we would probably like to think. Mostly down to satellite news coverage and worldwide distribution of media...
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...US software with US spell checkers, US help files, US voices in games and so on. There probably are US citizens who seriously believe that Roman columns are clumsy copies of US examples and that the Egyptian Sphinx and pyramids are clumsy massive copies of luxurious Vegas hotels, they invented freedom and democracy and history started on the 4th of July 1776, give or take some primitive pre historical European events.
Yes, IKWYM Maggy
I would be interested in the result if America had to pay $9 a gallon of petrol or diesel and $4 a gallon of Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG). I think this roughly works out correct by the exchange rate?!
that sounds funny. i also hate the fact that some americans pronounce iraq like I-rack or I-ran for iran... just ridiculous... the whole world & the population of those countries says ee-rack or ee-ran. geez, just listen to yourselves speak! heheheh
Maggy said:
...US software with US spell checkers, US help files, US voices in games and so on. There probably are US citizens who seriously believe that Roman columns are clumsy copies of US examples and that the Egyptian Sphinx and pyramids are clumsy massive copies of luxurious Vegas hotels, they invented freedom and democracy and history started on the 4th of July 1776, give or take some primitive pre historical European events.
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ahahahahah TRUE!
eternal respect for such consolidated msg!
respect!
Elwyn M3100 said:
I would be interested in the result if America had to pay $9 a gallon of petrol or diesel and $4 a gallon of Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG). I think this roughly works out correct by the exchange rate?!
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe that's anywhere near funny. The US idea of free trade still means the US has the right to sell US goods to whom they approve as buyers at the price set by the US; the US has the right to buy what the US believes it needs at the price set by the US. Countries who don't like to play by those rules shouldn't be surprised if the US finds an excuse for war...
Maggy said:
like to play by those rules shouldn't be surprised if the US finds an excuse for war...
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US always finds excuse for a war that they did want to, if you want example look at Iraq, the reason was so-called WMD but it was just myth than fact, where in North Korea there are nuclear weapons that I'm considered WMD but they didn't take any action (yet, but look like they wont)
You say eether and I say eyether,
You say neether and I say nyther;
Eether, eyether, neether, nyther,
Let's call the whole thing off!
You like potato and I like potahto,
You like tomato and I like tomahto;
Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto!
Let's call the whole thing off!
But oh! If we call the whole thing off,
Then we must part.
And oh! If we ever part,
Then that might break my heart!
So, if you like pajamas and I like pajahmas,
I'll wear pajamas and give up pajahmas.
For we know we need each other,
So we better call the calling off off.
Let's call the whole thing off!
You say laughter and I say lawfter,
You say after and I say awfter;
Laughter, lawfter, after, awfter,
Let's call the whole thing off!
You like vanilla and I like vanella,
You, sa's'parilla and I sa's'parella;
Vanilla, vanella, Choc'late, strawb'ry!
Let's call the whole thing off!
But oh! If we call the whole thing off,
Then we must part.
And oh! If we ever part,
Then that might break my heart!
So, if you go for oysters and I go for ersters
I'll order oysters and cancel the ersters.
For we know we need each other,
So we better call the calling off off!
Let's call the whole thing off!
you say potato i say tomato
I say patat, tomaat, vanille, chocolade (I'm Dutch).
As one member of ten famous international photographers, I feel highly honored to be invited to the activity of such theme as “City of Olympics” organized by Chinese government on 10th March. It’s the first time I had been to Beijing, and before this I only see the outlook of Great Wall from pictures. During the week, We take pictures from the spot representing Chinese culture such as Beijing Imperial Palace, Great Wall, and of course some large sports facilities, of which the outlook of one facility is like bird’s nest, so we call it “Bird’s Nest.”
It’s one visual feast that the city blends the classicality and modern perfection everywhere. I even had the delusion of travelling across the history for many times.
I was fascinated by many unique spot I’d never seen before, and what I can do was just to take some pictures of the beautiful scene for permanent preservation. It’s an uncommon experience to take so many pictures on the ancient city’s outlook.and the only way for me to thank Beijing is to record the most beautiful and the vigorous Beijing with my camera.
When I was bothered how I could transfer all of these pictures to the magazine and my friends abroad? The Chinese translator told me that she could help me to solve this problem. It’s a miracle that my friends in North American and Africa received my photos timely. I felt surprised when I saw the email in which my friends appraise the beautiful pictures. I was wondering why pictures could be transferred to any countries I wanted. The translator told me that there was one popular transnational transfer software called QOODAA. It can be downloaded free at http://www.qoodaa.com/. It’s with English interface, easy-to-use, and can transfer large files (such as movies, videos) across different countries, which changed the history of express CD.
I am not in the least afraid of the far place and large pictures after I found the way how to transfer large files. I travel around the world easily with Qoodaa and to be a cool “daanese”.
I believe in language almost religiously. I spent a third of my life studying it, scrutinizing it, creating it--and spent even longer using it--pushing its limitations, exploring how it works, because I want to know how to use it best. Language is how we organize, how we help each other. Or don't. And when we don't, it's often because we can't help each other, we don't have a mutually understood language, and without that, it's difficult to feel the empathy necessary to move us. If we're on this planet for any reason at all, I believe it's at least to help one another. And that puts language right at the heart of human purpose. Our languages are our culture, our laws, our education and information.
I came to a point where I felt like there was little left to explore. I had to create. And I dedicated my life to writing, to using what I'd learned, and use it best. Mark Twain is one of my favorites. He revolutionized how we write by glorifying the way that we actually talk. He loved the sound of local accents, and adored the charm of his own. His work is directly, though not fully, responsible for the shift in how the world treats education. It was only available to the upper classes, but when literature changed, so did where we thought education would benefit.
That's the power of language. That's what each and every language user can do, and does everyday. But there are problems, like I said. We often misunderstand, often intentionally. I'm writing this mostly in the hope that I can put a few thoughts in your head to play with, so I won't bother trying to change people's intentions. But the misunderstandings--what can we do about them?
I don't believe in a global language. I don't believe we should have one. I love language, not hate it, and I want to keep alive every possible means of telling a story. A global language encourages people to leave their regional languages behind. There are six thousand languages on this planet, and the five largest are spoken natively by 2 billion people. Twenty languages die every year. That means the last person to speak that language natively passes away. Many of those languages were never written down, never recorded. Our ancestors, the grandparents of your and my grandparents-plus-a-few, told each other--in languages we will never know, never see, never hear--how their day went. Think about that. New languages are born, we call them creole languages, in as little as twenty years--a single generation. Surprisingly fast, but not a rate that stops the downward trend. And yet, if we did stop it, we would halt all the progress we are making by growing global languages.
That's just one of many problems the world is facing with communication. It's not even the most pressing, just one of the most interesting. In Mark Twain's time, he invested in a machine called the automatic typesetter, which failed where the linotype succeeded, because a problem they faced was the labor it took to put out a newspaper on a daily basis. A funny little anecdote: Alexander Bell approached Mark Twain about investing in the telephone as Twain was investing in any nifty invention he thought would turn a profit. Twain apparently thought to himself, "Well, I'd have one, and my publisher would have one, and the newspaper--but where's the real market?" And turned down the opportunity to invest in the telephone.
That anecdote brings me to the thrust of my point. Yes, surprise, I have one. The telephone, it turns out, is the answer to a whole host of problems we've been banging our heads on tables about. Nobody would have reasonably guessed that in as little as five years ago. We have the tools to translate languages in almost real-time conversation. This will only improve. We communicate with thousands of people at once, almost no matter where we are or the time of day or how else we're multi-tasking. Not just with our voices, but with our text, and even our faces and our hands. Deaf people use phones. Think about that. Even people who refuse to socialize, who refuse to talk to other people, could easily find a reason to get a tablet or a smartphone.
I summarize the portal news on XDA TV each week. A lot of people wonder why I do that. They either don't think I fit or don't think it's what I should focus on. But in a world where the answer to so many problems I'm passionate about fixing is in my pocket, and the fact that whether or not those answers will come to fruition has a lot to do with what happens on this forum, I simply must be a part of it. I believe in xda-developers, in all of the reasons a person would come here, from developing to using, and I believe in the results of that process. You make our communication better, making our languages better. I'm writing this to thank you for those efforts, and for letting me tell people about them.
Jeff
i believe in the power of language- the beauty of words- the essence of a sentence, a paragraph or even the smallest simplest piece of writing- the word itself- which holds much meaning.
i am a writer and an artist and i have seen -how- over the years- those i mentioned above- have lost their meaning, changed, clashed, combined, simplified. many people just do have TIME devoted to such powerful, amazing and important concepts such as these. reading has become hurried- many just do not have the patience or the attention span. Charles Dickens and many other amazing authors- my favorite, gothic literature, wrote glorious masterpieces- having depth, detail- just so much more than novels of today- because those readers- DID not have television, computers, mobile devices, anything else attention grabbing. their time was definitely simpler and a time when language was at its height. now- unity of language comes from what we have at our hands- the internet, our devices- tablets, phones, mp3 players, etc.
to me, i see many simplifying- shortening- decreasing anything that has to do with writing or language. i feel so many just want the easier simpler path and i do fear as you wrote- we are missing out on so much. even i am guilty of this. i used to ONLY text- now i call my peoples, for i feel, they are missing out on MY MEANING- when i text. i hate shortening words- i like writing "ha.ha.ha.ha.ha" or "oh.my" instead of the "lol" or "omg."
my roots- deep in the sticks PA- there are so many eccentric red.neck.methods and particular dialects- which i fear- as i age- i lose (probably because i am getting older and my brain is turning into damaged goods of forgetfulness- and well i live in south.florida- the cornucopia of peoples).
language is an amazing beauty- that i will never conquer- for that i am grateful. i believe in what you do here on xda- many need it. cliff and spark notes are so popular- people search the internet looking for the summary to books of yore- but i believe, deep within, that xda unites many from all over. there is a tech advantage- simple words power/run/etc our devices- bring people together- and we all take moments- read the forums, the private messages, the newest thread- me, i read every single page of a rom i am interested in. i love when people go above and beyond helping new people, i love the arguments- because therein lies passion for a simple device- we all cherish, adore and LOVE!!!!
i am addicted to mobile device technology. the more i know- the more i understand- the happier i am. if it were not for xda- jeez- i probably would have lost my mind last year. my sincere thanks go to everyone here on xda- there is so much knowledge, such deep rooted interest, passion and incredible awareness from so many- xda begins my day and ends my day!!!
thank you- for your words, ideas, thoughts, and everything you do for xda. for your words- your notion- your very thread- has initiated your very concept. that- my friend, is a beautiful thing!!!!
Sadly the telephone has done more harm to the written language than anything else i could mention. Txt spk innit!
As of what I know, there are currently 2000 lanuages that are spoken by less than 500 people all over the world. It will be a shame to lose so many lanuages. What I think is that the Modern times made more people speak english, and I can see that on lots of people combining English while they are speaking Hebrew, and it makes me feel bad. Is this what we want? I don't think that we encourage the use of different languages when not all languages are available for devices. For example, Windows only has 35 languages. As for Droids, I can't get the phone to use hebrew as UI OS without flashing another ROM. There are languages that aren't even learnt today, such as Yidish and Ladino (both jewish languages).
I think we could do more to help with this, but we should know where we are headed to.
DirkGently1 said:
Sadly the telephone has done more harm to the written language than anything else i could mention. Txt spk innit!
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Not sure I agree. There is a big plus from texting. Although much of the earlier texting was a basic shorthand, and a lot is communication was thought based rather than form based. The one thing that email, texting and alike did was, it recharged the written word again. Before email/texting the Cell phone was making people more verbal, then the email and then texting brought new life back into the written word.
The one thing that is a decided disadvantage with younger people is the inability to know the difference between correct written form and slang form. So much so, that most of the college grads that work for me write @ a 6-7 grade level ( and they graduated ? go figure). This is what most people who know how to write complain about poor understanding of language. A simple example : "get off the bus" vs "exit the but" The first is informal and a unique use of the language to imply action (phrasal verb) vs the correct written form. It is OK to use either, the problem to me with most people is that they do not know the difference or why........ that is the failing in our modern education..........
All this rant will not change many but if a few pick up the idea of how language is a form of logic just like math with formulas and rules like math, then maybe some will want to know more......... one can hope............
oka1 said:
A simple example : "get off the bus" vs "exit the but"
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I hope you mean bus. Otherwise, hmmmm
I agree 1000% on this. So many beautiful languages that die out every day.
oka1 said:
Not sure I agree. There is a big plus from texting. Although much of the earlier texting was a basic shorthand, and a lot is communication was thought based rather than form based. The one thing that email, texting and alike did was, it recharged the written word again. Before email/texting the Cell phone was making people more verbal, then the email and then texting brought new life back into the written word. )
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Right, writing to communicate real-time is brand new, and its own thing. Literature won't be affected much. On the other hand, because people are speaking through text in real-time, literacy is through the roof. More people can read and write today than ever before, and that's thanks to chat rooms and texting.
On another point you made, I wouldn't worry about people choosing to use more words than necessary. We do that in speech all the time, and rather than a failure of modern education, those variations in word choice are one way that languages change. They always have changed, and always will. We're just more aware of it now than we were.
As of what I know, there are currently 2000 lanuages that are spoken by less than 500 people all over the world. It will be a shame to lose so many lanuages. What I think is that the Modern times made more people speak english, and I can see that on lots of people combining English while they are speaking Hebrew, and it makes me feel bad. Is this what we want? I don't think that we encourage the use of different languages when not all languages are available for devices. For example, Windows only has 35 languages. As for Droids, I can't get the phone to use hebrew as UI OS without flashing another ROM. There are languages that aren't even learnt today, such as Yidish and Ladino (both jewish languages).
I think we could do more to help with this, but we should know where we are headed to.
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Languages mixing is also pretty natural, always happened, just not at the rate they are now. The cool thing about xda and how it can help is that anyone can make the UI you need. Yes, you need to flash it, but then, you could build a Hebrew ROM from stock and make Google, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, or whoever aware of it in hopes that they'll include it. Google published a blog recently about how Africa is a surprisingly fast-growing continent of Android users, probably in response to the fight between Arabs and Blackberry. At any rate, I'm sure they're more than happy to have people do the grunt work for them in bringing new languages to OSs.
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