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I just wanted to say that the Amazon App Store is a really nice alternative to the Android Market. With honeycomb finally get to see new apps. Angry Birds Rio is really nice, and nows its free today for the ad free version.
sal_shawn said:
I just wanted to say that the Amazon App Store is a really nice alternative to the Android Market. With honeycomb finally get to see new apps. Angry Birds Rio is really nice, and nows its free today for the ad free version.
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Click to collapse
Can someone explain to me the logic in having another place to get apps outside of the Google Market that benefits consumers? So I get Angry Birds Rio because it is exclusive however, if I remove the Amazon market app it stops working. Why? And all the other apps I checked are already available in the Google Market. So why do I need to use the Amazon Appstore other than exclusive content which in my opinion if fragmenting the available apps?
keitht said:
Can someone explain to me the logic in having another place to get apps outside of the Google Market that benefits consumers? So I get Angry Birds Rio because it is exclusive however, if I remove the Amazon market app it stops working. Why? And all the other apps I checked are already available in the Google Market. So why do I need to use the Amazon Appstore other than exclusive content which in my opinion if fragmenting the available apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Different features in the actual marketplace; different payment processor (Amazon, which I use extensively, has all my payment information but I do not use Google Checkout); different prices and yes, a different selection. Amazon and other app stores can offer additional features to developers like the DRM you are complaining about which will lead to fragmentation that may or may not be a good thing (time will tell). Who knows, maybe there will be a prime-esque subscription service at some point. Best Buy may sell the same games as Gamestop, but I'm glad I have the choice to never shop at the latter.
sangreal06 said:
Different features in the actual marketplace; different payment processor (Amazon, which I use extensively, has all my payment information but I do not use Google Checkout); different prices and yes, a different selection. Amazon and other app stores can offer additional features to developers like the DRM you are complaining about which will lead to fragmentation that may or may not be a good thing (time will tell). Who knows, maybe there will be a prime-esque subscription service at some point. Best Buy may sell the same games as Gamestop, but I'm glad I have the choice to never shop at the latter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am all about choice but having multiple places to search is not a positive feature in my opinion. Will we have 10 other app stores pop up next week? Not very appealing in my opinion.
keitht said:
Can someone explain to me the logic in having another place to get apps outside of the Google Market that benefits consumers? So I get Angry Birds Rio because it is exclusive however, if I remove the Amazon market app it stops working. Why? And all the other apps I checked are already available in the Google Market. So why do I need to use the Amazon Appstore other than exclusive content which in my opinion if fragmenting the available apps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I just like the ability to see all the new released apps. In Google's market for the Xoom all you can see is the featured and top apps.
keitht said:
I am all about choice but having multiple places to search is not a positive feature in my opinion. Will we have 10 other app stores pop up next week? Not very appealing in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see you concern but I do not see how that is any different from other shopping experiences. I prefer Amazon's search/sorting capabilities from my brief look earlier. I'm sure eventually there will be apps to search any and all available app stores.
sal_shawn said:
Well I just like the ability to see all the new released apps. In Google's market for the Xoom all you can see is the featured and top apps.
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Click to collapse
That is an issue that Google can resolve. You get 10 other companies providing an app store, how is that helping? You then have to do the same search 10 times.
keitht said:
That is an issue that Google can resolve. You get 10 other companies providing an app store, how is that helping? You then have to do the same search 10 times.
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Click to collapse
I see your point. I agree I would prefer one place to get my apps. But right now when I just go browsing for apps amazon is alot easier.
This has to be one of the biggest blunders I have ever seen with Android yet. Most of the Amazon market is filled with apps that are already available in the Google Market. The only app I have seen so far that is not available is Angry Birds Rio. And if you do not install or have removed the Amazon appstore app, you cannot even run it. Does that sound like the same issue with DRM protected music?
And what allows Amazon to create their own app store? Is it easy for 20, 30, 100 others to start their own store with mostly the same apps with their own rules? This does not look good. Who wants to search 100 stores for apps to find what they are looking for and on top of that, have different rules. This has to be the most retarded thing I have ever seen since owning an Android device and is doomed for failure.
If you don't like it, don't use it. Let market forces determine things. If 10 app stores popped out tomorrow I guarantee most would not succeed. As it is there are several alternative app stores for android already, and they have not caused any problems. Competition is ALLWAYS a good thing, even for our beloved google. Same reason I am happy that apple is constantly pushing on android and vice-versa. Competition is the underlying rationale for using Android for me.
keitht said:
This has to be one of the biggest blunders I have ever seen with Android yet. Most of the Amazon market is filled with apps that are already available in the Google Market. The only app I have seen so far that is not available is Angry Birds Rio. And if you do not install or have removed the Amazon appstore app, you cannot even run it. Does that sound like the same issue with DRM protected music?
And what allows Amazon to create their own app store? Is it easy for 20, 30, 100 others to start their own store with mostly the same apps with their own rules? This does not look good. Who wants to search 100 stores for apps to find what they are looking for and on top of that, have different rules. This has to be the most retarded thing I have ever seen since owning an Android device and is doomed for failure.
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Click to collapse
So on your PC, you would rather have one single source for all your software? You don't comparison shop, buy from different vendors, directly from developers? The app concept and having it all in one place is a convenience, thats it. Its like saying you should not open up a Target because your town already has a Wall-Mart or something...
diaa08 said:
So on your PC, you would rather have one single source for all your software? You don't comparison shop, buy from different vendors, directly from developers? The app concept and having it all in one place is a convenience, thats it. Its like saying you should not open up a Target because your town already has a Wall-Mart or something...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not my PC. You go to Amazon store and you see the same apps available in the Google Market. You think the average consumer wants to search multiple markets for an app? I know I don't. And the same app works from Google market and not from another app store because their appstore app is not installed? You think this is a good user experience? I don't. Do not compare to PC experience because the Android tablet experience is based on competition from Apple iPad not from a PC experience. This will be a disaster in a year from now where iPad users can search one location for all their app needs and Android tablet users will need to search 100+ for theirs. There is no reason why these apps cannot be in one location.
keitht said:
There is no reason why these apps cannot be in one location.
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Click to collapse
But there is a reason... different terms and features for developers.
sangreal06 said:
But there is a reason... different terms and features for developers.
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Click to collapse
And what specifically are those?
keitht said:
This is not my PC. You go to Amazon store and you see the same apps available in the Google Market. You think the average consumer wants to search multiple markets for an app? I know I don't. And the same app works from Google market and not from another app store because their appstore app is not installed? You think this is a good user experience? I don't. Do not compare to PC experience because the Android tablet experience is based on competition from Apple iPad not from a PC experience. This will be a disaster in a year from now where iPad users can search one location for all their app needs and Android tablet users will need to search 100+ for theirs. There is no reason why these apps cannot be in one location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha i don't want to get a back and forth going here, but really, just don't use the amazon app store and all will be ok. not to overblow the analogy, but two supermarkets usually carry 99% of the same things, doesn't mean you should get rid of one or preclude new ones from opening up.
i realize that apple people have their walled garden with their false sense of security and limited options, but take music purchases as an example: i can either say, buy all my music from iTunes like most Apple people do, or i can do what i do, which is source it from eMusic, Amazon MP3, directly from the artists, etc, all of which i am able to do from both my galaxy s or my xoom, and all of which i am able to do for less money than if i just bought everything from iTunes. oh and since the artists usually get a better deal if i avoid the iTunes store i know more of my money is going directly to them. same thing applies to app stores. its not really all that complicated, i mean, how lazy have we gotten if we can't be bothered to look for things on more than one app store?
as far as the drm deal where apps won't work without amazon appstore, i am not crazy about it, and if that is the case, i would definitely think twice before buying anything from them. maybe some content providers will insist on using amazon's system, but if the terms are that restrictive i'll just take my money elsewhere.
diaa08 said:
haha i don't want to get a back and forth going here, but really, just don't use the amazon app store and all will be ok. not to overblow the analogy, but two supermarkets usually carry 99% of the same things, doesn't mean you should get rid of one or preclude new ones from opening up.
i realize that apple people have their walled garden with their false sense of security and limited options, but take music purchases as an example: i can either say, buy all my music from iTunes like most Apple people do, or i can do what i do, which is source it from eMusic, Amazon MP3, directly from the artists, etc, all of which i am able to do from both my galaxy s or my xoom, and all of which i am able to do for less money than if i just bought everything from iTunes. oh and since the artists usually get a better deal if i avoid the iTunes store i know more of my money is going directly to them. same thing applies to app stores. its not really all that complicated, i mean, how lazy have we gotten if we can't be bothered to look for things on more than one app store?
as far as the drm deal where apps won't work without amazon appstore, i am not crazy about it, and if that is the case, i would definitely think twice before buying anything from them. maybe some content providers will insist on using amazon's system, but if the terms are that restrictive i'll just take my money elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen, I do not want back and forth either. I want to understand the reasoning behind having another place to get apps. If there is a restriction or process that does not work posting the same app to the Google market, what is it? Why is another market or appstore needed other than money to Amazon? I don't get it.
Why would developers choose to use the Amazon store over the Google Market? Can someone answer that please with specifics? Is this a takeover of the Google market?
keitht said:
Why would developers choose to use the Amazon store over the Google Market? Can someone answer that please with specifics?
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Click to collapse
The only reason i could think of would be different methods of payment. What forms of payments do they both use? Actually another reason could be the amazon one may also allow "banned" software, as the market is run by google.
keitht said:
Why would developers choose to use the Amazon store over the Google Market? Can someone answer that please with specifics? Is this a takeover of the Google market?
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Click to collapse
Right now? I do not know as I am not familiar with the policies of them both. However, as we have seen with the Apple App Store there have been many rules which have upset developers over time. Some of those are directly tied to how much money a developer can make off their app. For example, if Google were to mandate something similar to Apple's new subscription model I imagine many developers would like an alternative.
From a user perspective, having competing promotions like Amazon's free paid-app every day is nice
I agree that it can be a hassle to look for things in different stores but it is for the best. Its the universal rule of conservation if you will. The Amazon Appstore with bring competition to Google forcing google to step up its game if does not want to loose customers. For example Amazon will have a free paid app per day, maybe that will move google to do the same or top that. Amazon will test each app first to make sure it is not malicious and even though it will never be perfect maybe that will move google to do something similar. Amazon has worked out deals with developers in regards to the checkout process which may lead some developers that before only sold their apps from their own website to put them in the appstore (Gameloft). Also this has led some developers to drop their prices at the Amazon Appstore.
I understand not everyone thinks this is for the best or that its too much of a hassle but when you think of things from a perspective of growth and innovation it seems to be good.
In regards to the DRM content it is one of those things that are just tough to deal with sure we can try to avoid everything that has DRM but that is why Netflix and Hulu have not been supported thus far.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
I can't get the Amazon Appstore app to install. It gives me the message "Do you want to install this application? It will get access to:" then a list of areas and boxes for cancel or install. When I click install nothing happens. The cancel box works. (I did check the unknown sources in settings)
If it is being blocked by Google, that would suck.
I'm pretty shure its being blocked by Google.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
Threevo said:
I'm pretty shure its being blocked by Google.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
If it's being blocked I might return my Nexus 7. It would suck that they would only let you buy apps from them.
chisaki said:
I can't get the Amazon Appstore app to install. It gives me the message "Do you want to install this application? It will get access to:" then a list of areas and boxes for cancel or install. When I click install nothing happens. The cancel box works. (I did check the unknown sources in settings)
If it is being blocked by Google, that would suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true it's working for me. Go to Amazon& request a new link to be sent to your email.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Thats strange, i was able to do it on my N7. Maybe a reboot of some sort?
Works fine here. Go into Setting>Security and check Allow unknown sources. Go to Amazon web site and follow instructions to download and install. Did that to download an older version of a zombie killing game that works on N7.
Works fine for me. I use it every day to get the free "cr"app of the day.
Try rebooting it then re-installing.
If you're installing it from a previous backup from another device, it most likely won't work (not assuming you are, but just in case...) Like the others said, go to Amazon and get it directly and you should have no problem.
What worked for me was clicking the link for tablets. It says something like "no email or phone number, click here" and that downloaded the APK directly into my system download folder. From there it installed just fine. I had to do this to get it on my Google TV also. It seems to bypass some sort of test since the Google TV isn't officially compatible with it.
I just worked with an Amazon tech, got it to install using by going to this like in the browser on the N7.
http://www.amazon.com/app-email
Works fine now.
Mine installed fine. I used the APK from my phone. Got a bunch of the nicer FAOTD apps working perfectly too.
Compusmurf said:
Works fine for me. I use it every day to get the free "cr"app of the day.
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Click to collapse
Idk man, I've gotten a few awesome ones for free, like quick office, sketchbook mobile, and some games like monopoly for free.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
I find it incredible that everyone is giving Amazon a free pass for contributing to the Android Malware myth.
The fact you have to enable side loading on an Android phone to allow Amazon, means any other malware could also slip in. Using Amazon app store is a REALLY bad idea (plus the fact it's a barren wasteland compared to Google Play, and most of the apps are really out of date versions).
Surely the lure of free versions of old apps is not that strong that you want to open your phone up to allsorts of Android malware nasties?
CrazyPeter said:
I find it incredible that everyone is giving Amazon a free pass for contributing to the Android Malware myth.
The fact you have to enable side loading on an Android phone to allow Amazon, means any other malware could also slip in. Using Amazon app store is a REALLY bad idea (plus the fact it's a barren wasteland compared to Google Play, and most of the apps are really out of date versions).
Surely the lure of free versions of old apps is not that strong that you want to open your phone up to allsorts of Android malware nasties?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bugger the Apps they get games too. Of course only if you're from a certain country.
Majority of the free apps are a joke.
I usually check it every day and realize they're all trash (except maybe 2 apps so far) and then I uninstall it. For some reason I get struck with the idiotic idea that I may be missing out on some good free apps, so I stupidly install it again in hopes of some decent apps...... it never happens
Andrew025 said:
Majority of the free apps are a joke.
I usually check it every day and realize they're all trash (except maybe 2 apps so far) and then I uninstall it. For some reason I get struck with the idiotic idea that I may be missing out on some good free apps, so I stupidly install it again in hopes of some decent apps...... it never happens
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what most people think. Once you discover what Amazon are offering for free is basically stuff that deserves to be free anyway, make sure you re-tick the Android security setting and revert back to the proper Android store that Google host.
mtfsandlin said:
Idk man, I've gotten a few awesome ones for free, like quick office, sketchbook mobile, and some games like monopoly for free.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it first came out, it was great. Now, the free app is usually a very crappy game. In the past, I got:
Fancy Widgets Pro, Weatherbug Elite, Thumb Keyboard, App 2 SD Pro, Moon Phase Pro, Quickoffice Pro, SoundHound Infinity, Shazam, SwiftKey 3, and several other good ones.
CrazyPeter said:
That's what most people think. Once you discover what Amazon are offering for free is basically stuff that deserves to be free anyway, make sure you re-tick the Android security setting and revert back to the proper Android store that Google host.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I've never once gotten malware and I always sideload apps. I always leave that setting unticked as do most folks I'm sure.
2. having Amazon app store or any other app store doesn't change your default android Google play store.
You want malware, go download Blackmarket apps or pirate stuff, you'll get it then. I do suggest tho, that everyone should install a malware scanner. Avast, lookout, etc.
CrazyPeter said:
I find it incredible that everyone is giving Amazon a free pass for contributing to the Android Malware myth.
The fact you have to enable side loading on an Android phone to allow Amazon, means any other malware could also slip in. Using Amazon app store is a REALLY bad idea (plus the fact it's a barren wasteland compared to Google Play, and most of the apps are really out of date versions).
Surely the lure of free versions of old apps is not that strong that you want to open your phone up to allsorts of Android malware nasties?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What? Side loading doesn't put you at any greater risk of malware. You always choose to install an app, whether you side loaded it or not.
Nothing wrong or risky with downloading the Amazon app store, being able to choose a different app store is one of the best things about android. CHOICE.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Google Play of course
One time $25 sign up fee Payouts once a month no matter the amount you have earned.
Synapsy <--Scam!
App brain is ok. You will get more recognition with them if you pay to promote your app verses just adding it to their library. Also your app must be live on Google play for it to be included on appbrain.
I thought this Synapsy company was a spam:
http://thegamingpost2013.wordpress....lace-is-stealing-developers-from-google-play/
http://thegamingpost2013.wordpress....ributor-fails-to-pay-us-developers-thousands/
There are also threads on xda ]about that:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2133388
Can you provide the link to their app store?
GobletSky31689 said:
I thought this Synapsy company was a spam:
http://thegamingpost2013.wordpress....lace-is-stealing-developers-from-google-play/
http://thegamingpost2013.wordpress....ributor-fails-to-pay-us-developers-thousands/
There are also threads on xda ]about that:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2133388
Can you provide the link to their app store?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No! That is the first I have hear of that! Thanks so much for the info will discontinue my apps there immediately! Glad I created this thread and you stopped by.
I'm trying with GetJar. Anyone has experience with it?
Aptoide Market.. the best?
Στάλθηκε από το A500 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk 2
In my opinion it's too difficult to trust any market that you have to upload your apk to. Appbrain though is perfect, has anyone got any other markets you can submit your apps (from google play) to?
Im still primarily using the play store. Doesnt app brain charge a per download fee or something like that even on free apps?
Note 2 ftw
I use Google Play, BlackBerry World and Amazon Appstore. Blackberry World has worked better than expected for us.
Use google play... Its the best.... Also check out amazon and appbrain for some additional profits......
Sent from my GT-I9070 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
i use google play and slideME
Skektox said:
I'm trying with GetJar. Anyone has experience with it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
getjar was worse than amazon for me. It used to be much better but i didn't have any luck with my current game.
Additionally to Google play I use AppBrain, RoboMobo and Opera.
They're OK. With minimal effort I get 20-30% extra downloades.
Try GiveMeApps
furqanrydhan said:
getjar was worse than amazon for me. It used to be much better but i didn't have any luck with my current game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try GiveMeApps. They don't have any developer fees AT ALL and you have the option of keeping 100% of all of your earnings. You also get to withdraw your money whenever you want using your control panel, not just once a month, once every two weeks, etc. You can also track your downloads and get analytics.
They also have a Tech Blog, YouTube channel, etc. :good:
It's worth it http://www.givemeapps.com
JeffM123 said:
Try GiveMeApps. They don't have any developer fees AT ALL and you have the option of keeping 100% of all of your earnings. You also get to withdraw your money whenever you want using your control panel, not just once a month, once every two weeks, etc. You can also track your downloads and get analytics.
They also have a Tech Blog, YouTube channel, etc. :good:
It's worth it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm that sounds like a pretty good deal
eraste said:
Hmm that sounds like a pretty good deal
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Click to collapse
Definitely check it out. You can pretty much track everything in that store and they are expanding fast. It's not just Android either, but iOS, Blackberry, Windows Phone and even Web OS.
Play Store
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app
I use Play Store, Samsung App store, GetJar, Softonic, Opera, BlackBerry, Applandic and Apptoide.
Well by amount of downloads I have next list:
Play Store
BlackBerry
Samsung
Softonic
almost on the same position are GetJar, Opera, Applandic and Apptoide.
By the way, Softonic doesn't ask to submit an app, Play Store link will be enough.
GetJar was good for me when I've tried to promote an app with their promotional service but it's not so good as Appbrain. After I've finished the campaign number of downloads returned to the previous level.
I like SlideMe. I'll add to Play Store too, but right now i don't have a mean to pay those 25$.
That is one time fee and they will charge you nothing from that day? Not even when you withdraw your eranings?
anugotta said:
Use google play... Its the best.... Also check out amazon and appbrain for some additional profits......
Sent from my GT-I9070 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do any of the alternative appstores provide In-App Billing like google play does?
And did you have to adjust your apps to the different appstores?
furqanrydhan said:
getjar was worse than amazon for me. It used to be much better but i didn't have any luck with my current game.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any idea why getjar wasn't working for you? I've heard good things about them, but haven't tried them myself (and what I'm hearing about them might be outdated...)
How do you think the new Google Play Store Search results on the web will effect the visibility/downloads of small apps.
SSCUBE said:
How do you think the new Google Play Store Search results on the web will effect the visibility/downloads of small apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's great and I'm sure it will have an impact. The question is how much of an impact.
Will people search Google for apps now or will they go straight to the Play Store app? I'm not sure...
For me, I always look in the store app first, but then revert to Google if I can't find the app I'm looking for. Regardless, it's another way for developers to promote their apps - especially with how saturated the market as a whole is.
That's a very fast port! Good job, you have accomplished that which many big corporations have trouble doing. More power to you!
about google play store search
Yes its always having the issues with new launched apps which not getting new sales only because of top ranked apps.
SSCUBE said:
How do you think the new Google Play Store Search results on the web will effect the visibility/downloads of small apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tomed said:
I think it's great and I'm sure it will have an impact. The question is how much of an impact.
Will people search Google for apps now or will they go straight to the Play Store app? I'm not sure...
For me, I always look in the store app first, but then revert to Google if I can't find the app I'm looking for. Regardless, it's another way for developers to promote their apps - especially with how saturated the market as a whole is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did the nuke-it-and-make-it-usable upgrade. This is my first, so please forgive me if I don't use the correct terminology. I used FlashFire and uploaded SlimRom, SuperSu, and mini-gapps. It seems most of the apps I try to install says its not compatible with my device. Some apps I know are supposed to be there, don't show up in a search. Also, it kinda leans like it's a phone instead of a tablet. This may be normal, not sure there. Someone smarter than me, feel free to chime in. Am I doing something wrong, or did I miss a step? I used the tool from RootJunky. They gave this forum a lot of props and said you guys are the go-to peeps. I believe I got my files from the mirrors here. Amazon Fire 7", 5.1.1, Thanks in advance...
You pretty much would have to install the APK for each app that you cannot download from the Google Play store, part of the reasoning behind this is because Amazon Fire isn't officially supported by the Google Play Store, thus some apps will be unistallable via the app store.
You can download the APKs here: https://apkpure.com/app?hl=en
All the APKs should work. Just one thing to note would be that in the future, you'd have to reinstall the APK whenever a new update arrives for your app.
Best of luck!
darkgiant said:
You pretty much would have to install the APK for each app that you cannot download from the Google Play store, part of the reasoning behind this is because Amazon Fire isn't officially supported by the Google Play Store, thus some apps will be unistallable via the app store.
You can download the APKs here:
All the APKs should work. Just one thing to note would be that in the future, you'd have to reinstall the APK whenever a new update arrives for your app.
Best of luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, in the background its still an Amazon Fire? I guess I just assumed by doing the new ROM, it would get rid of everything Amazon. That's what I get for assuming :laugh:. Thanks!!
Great question and thanks for the answer. This may not be related to the "505 error" but I noticed with apps like "Open Camera" that it says the device is not compatible, and now I know why!
darkgiant said:
You pretty much would have to install the APK for each app that you cannot download from the Google Play store, part of the reasoning behind this is because Amazon Fire isn't officially supported by the Google Play Store, thus some apps will be unistallable via the app store.
You can download the APKs here:
All the APKs should work. Just one thing to note would be that in the future, you'd have to reinstall the APK whenever a new update arrives for your app.
Best of luck!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have since used apkpure and so far all the apps I have searched for has installed and worked pretty much like their supposed to. Thanks again!
Yeah, I had the same problem, particularly with "Google Play." Sadly, my local news channel app is not available there, but a lot of other apps I was having problems with were.