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I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
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I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
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T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.
eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
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Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.
I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app
baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.
rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
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Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
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I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.
After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..
I've been out of the Android game for a while now, my last device was a 1st gen Motorola Droid, Android 1.6. I'm coming back because I like the granular access the environment provides and I want the ability to tighten controls on my privacy, including UFED/XRY protection, and future IMSI detection/protection. Android just feels more relevant now than it did a few years back.
The iPhone spoiled me in terms of build quality and finish; I like metal, I like glass and I dislike plastic immensely... That said, the only two phones that look at all interesting are the M9 and the S6 Edge... I've preordered a Gold S6 Edge that will ship in a few weeks time. Between the two, in my eyes, there's really no comparison... I like how uncluttered touchwiz looks; I dislike Sense very much. The S6 screen blows the M9 out of the water, basically I'm just very enamored with the phone, the M9 almost completely bores me... I don't care about boom sound. At all.
I should mention I've been on Verizon for about a decade.
That said. I've been reading about older models (S4, S5, Note) trying to get a handle on the development situation and it doesn't look promising. I'm confident the S6 will be rooted, I know not everyone is, but I'm concerned that Samsung's bootloader and Exynos architecture are going to complicate the hell out of modding this phone.
I don't NEED custom ROM's (though I would love CM12) but I do need root. Running xposed/xprivacy, AFWall+ and other such apps demand it. So what's the general opinion? I don't have a feel for the community or the history anymore and that's why I'm asking... Are these concerns warranted or does probability say we'll move past them and the S6 will be a fine choice... Input welcomed.
I wouldn't buy it expecting root any time soon (maybe not at all?).
I'll give the same advice I always give to someone that says they 'need root'...
Never buy a phone until AFTER root had been discovered/released. Period.
Phones are getting harder and harder to root, especially on devices with locked boot loaders.
I would agree with the previous poster...if root is a must I would tread with caution. The Samsung Note 4 has about $40,000 in combined bounties available for root & for not tripping KNOX, neither has been achieved yet......see thread linked below.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4-verizon/general/bounty-verizon-note-4-root-whos-t2916685
I thought they already achieved root in the Samsung S6 edge forum. Not Verizon, but the general s6 edge forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3056631
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
V-Ty said:
I thought they already achieved root in the Samsung S6 edge forum. Not Verizon, but the general s6 edge forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3056631
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats because the international variant does not have a locked bootloader.
Sent from my SM-G925V using XDA Free mobile app
Right! I know our bootloader will never be unlocked but I think we will achieve root sooner then later. Obviously this is all guessing on my behalf but I think this phone is a popular phone and if some of the big developers buy this phone it will have a good chance of root. I know the story of the note 4 cause I just gave it to my wife and checked daily thinking it might be the day of root. But I don't think any of the top developers had a note 4. This is again not a statement of facts, just my guessing. Hopefully I'm right!
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Honestly that was my hope as well. I figured that since the Note was more of a niche device than the S6 will be, combined with the Chainfire deal already out, that we might have something here... It sucks, I don't hop devices often, so I put a lot of effort researching them and what I might be left with is beautiful but root SOL or good to go but boring One M9.
All I'm saying is that you don't buy a phone for what it MIGHT do in the future.
If you NEED root, you buy a phone that already has it. Period.
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...u-sim-unlock-your-phone-heres-the-fine-print/
jaseman said:
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...u-sim-unlock-your-phone-heres-the-fine-print/
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That's only talking about SIM unlocked devices.
jaseman said:
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
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From what I understand, all cellphones must have the ability to unlock the SIM (NOT the bootloader) after you have paid for the phone. Some carriers will unlock them sooner or don't lock them at all.
But the main point is, the law (according to my knowledge) does not mention "bootloader" at all.
SIM unlocking is what they seem to be talking about.
I think 40,000 got all the big devs to try the Note 4 bro, I've come to the conclusion ROOT IS DEAD. DAMN THE MAN
I have a galaxy s5 from AT&T that I got with a new two year contract. It has version 5.0 on it and came that way. I know that it's not rootable atm but just curious if there's anywhere with progress.
morgan5814 said:
I have a galaxy s5 from AT&T that I got with a new two year contract. It has version 5.0 on it and came that way. I know that it's not rootable atm but just curious if there's anywhere with progress.
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Please review the history of the site. Root is not root until it is root...meaning you cannot ask "are we there yet?" When full root is achieved it will be posted. Work is often done by developers off of XDA because it is the only way they can work uninterrupted. Any progress to get system access like some root methods that were lost upon reboot..cannot be determined whether or not you are close...until it is fully working and tested. The security of Lollipop, AT&T locked bootloaders and knox are a lot of hurdles to leap over.
Yes, however I think a better wording, with the s6 will there even be people bothering with it?
morgan5814 said:
Yes, however I think a better wording, with the s6 will there even be people bothering with it?
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I hope so. I'm in the same crowd of people that do not have to have the latest and greatest. The S6, while its an impressive device...without a replaceable battery....I just dont think it will have the staying power (pun intended) or durability for a device that a user might keep for a year or 2. The characteristics of the S6 itself (unfortunately) lends itself more to a throw-away device after its new and shiny wears out and the next iteration of the Galaxy line becomes available. There are ALOT of GS5s out there....and quite literally...ATT is giving them away.
Thats JMHO...YMMV.
morgan5814 said:
Yes, however I think a better wording, with the s6 will there even be people bothering with it?
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I think so. There are some things improved on the S6, but there are also some steps backward from what we have on the S5. I'm sure educated buyers will weigh those pros and cons very carefully and some buyers will decide that the S5 is better suited for their needs and tastes.
I personally know only one person who upgraded from an S5 to an S6 and he wants to go back to his S5.
I know ive heard that knox is here to stay on the note 4 forums but the galaxy s6 has root without tripping knox i just wanted to start a discussion on this matter and ask the simple question....
If it can be done on s6 why not note 4 ....
Now ive already tripped knox and probably dont care if i ever have a clean knox but i know there's plenty of people who would love to root but cant because they need knox... I just dont see how it can be as cut and dry as the note 4 forums have portrayed. It can be done obviously so is it a lack of necessity becuase so many have already tripped knox that they just arent interested in working it out or what.
I kno its been talked about before but not that ive seen has it ever been rationalized that the s6 has it why not us
why does knox even matter? most of the CS reps dont check KNOX and it isn't required other than for business purposes.
Well thats exactly where it does matter to the rest of us its absolutely pointless we don't care..but I've seen at least a few threads of users asking about it. So it has to matter to some users. And hell usualky just the thrill of the chase is reason enough to modify something to suit our needs after all isnt that why we all root and mod our phones , becuse we can..
And ultimately just interested in why it hasnt been done yet. Seeing it usually done on most other phones.. Plain curiosity i guess. Because it doesn't matter to me i would never utilize anything knox offers
Note 4 is not S5 or S6. Its different with a lot of scripting things. Not sure about this whole "chase" thing you mention. A lot of us here aren't into being criminals or feeling a thrill out of it, just wanting to modify our phones and have freedom to do so. Has nothing to do with being able to get away with it, etc. Retaining KNOX would be nice, but I don't think that's why a majority of the users are trying to do it
I have no idea where your taking things but way out in keft field obviously
I know exactly why we all mod our phones ive been here for quite a long time i never said anything remotely close to anything' criminal and am annoyed at someone implying i was. And as are all mankinds endeavors these are a challenge we rise to becuase we can thats what i meant. You really should be sure of the lines your reading in between before implying things
I was merely interested to know why its not been done in the note which is the most business savvy of all the galaxy line and you would think since knox is a corporate or business feature for the most part tthe business oriented phone would be the one to do it to
Michael Scott would be disappointed in you
My note 4 has a tripped knox, the GPS seems to be defective and since I'm not with the t mobile, I can't take it to the mobile for warranty. Samsung wouldn't take it, Or would they? Anyone have experience?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk
Odin to stock + factory reset has worked for us every time.
neofreek01 said:
I was merely interested to know why its not been done in the note which is the most business savvy of all the galaxy line and you would think since knox is a corporate or business feature for the most part tthe business oriented phone would be the one to do it to
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Simple answer: The Galaxy S6 had a kernel exploit, the Note 4 did not. You cannot just will an exploit into existence, you either find one, or you don't.
Also, for wanting or needing knox intact on your phone for business needs or whatever, you will want to be aware that rooted S6 users with intact knox will have to stay on 5.0.1 forever, or until a new exploit is found. I am sure any smart businesses incorporating knox would ask you to kindly update your S6, saying bye bye to your root.
T-Mobile don't care about knox being tripped.
Hello all,
I just got a new Verizon S6 Edge by extending my contract but most likely I am going to keep my S5 and sell the S6 (don't like the lack of microSD slot and fixed battery). It came with a ROM version (OE2) that would allow me to root it easily with PingPong (have not activated it yet so no OTAs pending).
Do you think it would be more attractive to a buyer if I rooted it (or kept it at OE2) prior to selling it?
What are the negatives of freezing at OE2? Someone mentioned about a serious security hole but that was on Reddit, so you never know what is true.
Thanks for any input.
Frank in Michigan
By rooting it, you're limiting your target audience to those who want root. A "novice" smartphone user, is going to not care, and more than likely will be more turned off by the uncertainty of it in their eyes, with the fear of something going wrong vs a stock phone (even though most of the time it's just fine). It'd be better to leave it stock, and just let potential buyers know that it CAN be rooted easily if they want to. Let the buyer make the choice, and keep your pool of buyers larger. Just my opinion.
CharlzO_2000 said:
By rooting it, you're limiting your target audience to those who want root. A "novice" smartphone user, is going to not care, and more than likely will be more turned off by the uncertainty of it in their eyes, with the fear of something going wrong vs a stock phone (even though most of the time it's just fine). It'd be better to leave it stock, and just let potential buyers know that it CAN be rooted easily if they want to. Let the buyer make the choice, and keep your pool of buyers larger. Just my opinion.
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Good point. I was going to try it for a week or so to make sure it worked OK and in case I changed my mind, but I am sure it would do an OTA during that time. And it would be used, so worth less I guess.
Thanks for the input. Will leave it as is and sell it with info about current ROM status.
Frank in Michigan
FMinMI said:
Good point. I was going to try it for a week or so to make sure it worked OK and in case I changed my mind, but I am sure it would do an OTA during that time. And it would be used, so worth less I guess.
Thanks for the input. Will leave it as is and sell it with info about current ROM status.
Frank in Michigan
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Hey man. Was trying to get a hold of you over on howard forums, but their approval process takes ages.
When you're ready to sell let me know. I am trying very hard to find one that can be rooted. I'll trade, buy, or whatever. Have this stupid s6 edge
that my wife graciously updated for me before I could root it, thus making me hate the phone.
altyrnate said:
Hey man. Was trying to get a hold of you over on howard forums, but their approval process takes ages.
When you're ready to sell let me know. I am trying very hard to find one that can be rooted. I'll trade, buy, or whatever. Have this stupid s6 edge
that my wife graciously updated for me before I could root it, thus making me hate the phone.
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Sorry about that. I have it on Swappa right now. You can see the ROM info there to confirm that is what you are looking for - I made a screen shot of it. PingPong is supposed to work fine but I wasn't going to do it since I wanted to sell it new/unused, in case a person wanted it as a gift for Christmas. Not looking to trade; just selling it because I like my S5 (now rooted with LP).
LMK.
Frank in Michigan (central).