I was searching around for anyone else with this issue and can't find anyone.
I shut down my N6 and place it on my LG wireless charger, then the phone boots up automatically.
I've also tried shutting it down while already on the wireless charger, and the phone still boots up.
I've been able to replicate this on the Nexus Charging Orb.
Does anyone know if there is a solution to allow the phone to remain off?
Thanks in advance!
bump for help
I am pretty sure that for qi to work it has to be powered on.
Sent from my SM-T320 using XDA Free mobile app
What you are experiencing is a Motorola thing. I believe the Droid Turbo does the same (my buddy had it and said it so don't quote me on it). It is not a feature of Qi as both my S4 and Note 3 will charge via Qi and not boot the phone. It actually even has a different graphic for charging even.
Sent from my SM-N900A using Tapatalk
jev3gs said:
What you are experiencing is a Motorola thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope they fix this with an future update. I don't see any benefit of having this occur
after researching this, the poster above is correct. this is a motorola feature/issue. my nexus 5 charges while off without a problem. NO idea who at moto thought this would be a good idea. it sucks actually. sadly, there is no solution that i've found
Robert_W said:
I was searching around for anyone else with this issue and can't find anyone.
I shut down my N6 and place it on my LG wireless charger, then the phone boots up automatically.
I've also tried shutting it down while already on the wireless charger, and the phone still boots up.
I've been able to replicate this on the Nexus Charging Orb.
Does anyone know if there is a solution to allow the phone to remain off?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive
I've been having the same problem , I have the N4 (LG) orb and the nexus 6. tried all night to get it to charge while the power was off. I still haven't fond any solution to this hopefull thy fix with update because this is a stupid feature.
I can confirm the issue.
Since the battery life on this phone is pretty good I don't often use the wireless charger during the day anymore. However I prefer to use the USB port as little as possible so I'd like to charge up over night with the wireless charger. And since I prefer my phone off overnight this issue has really been deterring me from using the wireless chargers at all.
I also hope this will is software thing so that an update may fix it.
Robert_W said:
I hope they fix this with an future update. I don't see any benefit of having this occur
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlikely. If the phone is off and connecting to Qi turns it on, it means it is managed by firmware, not android / recovery / bootloader etc.. Unlikely you'll see a hardware firmware update ever
rootSU said:
Unlikely. If the phone is off and connecting to Qi turns it on, it means it is managed by firmware, not android / recovery / bootloader etc.. Unlikely you'll see a hardware firmware update ever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not entirely correct. This is why;
ALL charging, whether it be a dumb power wire, qualcomm quick charge, regular old usb port, or Qi...... requires that the phone actually be ON to control the charging.
Usually, the mode that it is in *looks* like it is off. This is a special boot mode that is specific for charging. It brings the kernel up, and not a whole lot else. If you tap the power button, it'll show you a charging image and the percentage.
What this means is that when it gets to a Qi charger, it actually turns on with a normal boot (or at least *closer* to normal), rather than booting into charging mode.
Now in the kernel commandline, there are a few parameters that get passed in by the bootloader to indicate power up reasons and so forth, so if somebody wouldn't mind..... you can dump the kernel commandline by running 'cat /proc/cmdline' as root. I would like to see that line in all the different boot modes; normal boot, recovery boot, qi charging boot, quickcharge boot, normalcharge boot. You can, of course, edit out your serial numbers and mac addresses. I don't HAVE a qi charger, so I can't get that.
doitright said:
That is not entirely correct. This is why;
ALL charging, whether it be a dumb power wire, qualcomm quick charge, regular old usb port, or Qi...... requires that the phone actually be ON to control the charging.
Usually, the mode that it is in *looks* like it is off. This is a special boot mode that is specific for charging. It brings the kernel up, and not a whole lot else. If you tap the power button, it'll show you a charging image and the percentage.
What this means is that when it gets to a Qi charger, it actually turns on with a normal boot (or at least *closer* to normal), rather than booting into charging mode.
Now in the kernel commandline, there are a few parameters that get passed in by the bootloader to indicate power up reasons and so forth, so if somebody wouldn't mind..... you can dump the kernel commandline by running 'cat /proc/cmdline' as root. I would like to see that line in all the different boot modes; normal boot, recovery boot, qi charging boot, quickcharge boot, normalcharge boot. You can, of course, edit out your serial numbers and mac addresses. I don't HAVE a qi charger, so I can't get that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is different. When the phone is off and you plug a cable in, it boots to a charging mode, which sometimes uses a Micro kernel in the bootloader or sometimes the main android kernel - depending on the device. This is triggered by receiving current through the USB port. Obviously bootloader and kernel can be updated by ota.
However, the above is not what the OP is describing. He says the phone boots up. The Qi is triggering the phone to boot up and its not booting into this charging mode. What this says to me is that a hardware trigger based on qi connection is triggering firmware to force a boot, rather than the kernel
rootSU said:
This is different. When the phone is off and you plug a cable in, it boots to a charging mode, which sometimes uses a Micro kernel in the bootloader or sometimes the main android kernel - depending on the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QUALCOMM devices all boot the main kernel.
This is triggered by receiving current through the USB port. Obviously bootloader and kernel can be updated by ota.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or, obviously, also through the Qi charging coil and/or magnetic switch.
However, the above is not what the OP is describing. He says the phone boots up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIGHT!!!
Which it ALSO does if you plug in the USB wire. It just boots to a different MODE.
The Qi is triggering the phone to boot up and its not booting into this charging mode. What this says to me is that a hardware trigger based on qi connection is triggering firmware to force a boot, rather than the kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might want to re-read my last message in this thread involving things like the REASON for a boot up. The boot REASON is passed to the kernel by the bootloader on the kernel commandline. If the Qi is generating a special boot reason (like the USB does), then it is pretty simple to add a catch for that boot reason into the init and take it into CHARGING mode instead of a full Android boot. For example; find the line that effectively reads as "if (bootreason == usbcharge) start_chargemode();" and change it to "if (bootreason == usbcharge || bootreason == qicharge) start_chargemode();"
It is also possible that the boot reason for usb charge and qi charge are actually the same, but that the distinction is made DURING init. I.e., "if (bootreason == charge && charger != qi) start_chargemode()".
Starting to understand?
Thing is, you will likely not get a solution for the simple reason that it doesn't make sense to turn a device off for charging these days, may be your preference, but if you want something like this you will need to do it yourself, there's no real need for something like this for a regular dev to invest the time on it
doitright said:
Starting to understand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Starting to realise how condescending you are. Not really interested in anything you have to say to be honest. Bye.
z0phi3l said:
Thing is, you will likely not get a solution for the simple reason that it doesn't make sense to turn a device off for charging these days, may be your preference, but if you want something like this you will need to do it yourself, there's no real need for something like this for a regular dev to invest the time on it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's your opinion, and in my opinion it's wrong. there's no need to have my phone on when i sleep, and devices charge faster when off. also, my two other Qi devices, Nexus 5 and Nexus 7, charge wirelessly when off JUST FINE. so it's not unreasonable to expect N6 to behave the same way
rootSU said:
Starting to realise how condescending you are. Not really interested in anything you have to say to be honest. Bye.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about this; next time you READ and TRY TO UNDERSTAND before just assuming that everybody besides you is an idiot, then maybe you won't be treated like YOU are the idiot.
---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------
indianajonze said:
that's your opinion, and in my opinion it's wrong. there's no need to have my phone on when i sleep, and devices charge faster when off. also, my two other Qi devices, Nexus 5 and Nexus 7, charge wirelessly when off JUST FINE. so it's not unreasonable to expect N6 to behave the same way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that.... it is physically impossible for the device to charge when it is entirely off. The PMIC must be turned on, and for that to be on, the SoC must also, which means that the kernel must boot up. The only question is what mode it boots up into.
Fact is that if you boot into full android and turn on AIRPLANE MODE, it won't use any more power than it uses in CHARGER MODE, and it won't interrupt you -- it is *effectively* turned off.
And actually, here is an interesting piece of information for you to learn....
If you boot it to full Android, put the thing in airplane mode, unplug it, and turn the screen off... that will actually yield a lower power consumption from the device than what will happen when it is plugged in and booted to CHARGER mode. The reason is because in charger mode, it ALWAYS keeps one CPU core turned on! When it is unplugged, the charger's kernel wakelock is released, allowing ALL cores to shut down.
doitright said:
How about this; next time you READ and TRY TO UNDERSTAND before just assuming that everybody besides you is an idiot, then maybe you won't be treated like YOU are the idiot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Counter offer... Because I never assumed anyone was an idiot and actually since you haven't said anything I didn't know (you just assumed I didn't know anything.) Perhaps YOU should take your own advice before dishing out dumbed down and (although technically correct) incomplete "explanations" in a frankly condescending manor.
You didn't even try to get your head around what I was trying to say before going on the offensive.
I've been a desktop engineer for many years. I understand how hardware triggers the bootloader to hand over to the kernel. Now here I did make an assumption that firmware was involved. That's because I based it on something not dissimilar in my world. Wake on LAN. Now I fully admit that my understanding might be outmoded as its a different technology but you completely omit the fact that firmware layer says between the hardware and the bootloader or kernel. I have already said that I am not sure if the charging mode is a bootloader micro kernel or the android kernel. Different devices work differently here and I don't know which method it uses.
That said, my assumption is that like wake-on-LAN, the hardware firmware controls what is sent to the bootloader or kernel as an instruction. If that's true, no way would Google "fix" that with an OTA as why would they bother making it do that in the first place. Sure, that isn't to say it isn't doable and I never said it wasn't. Just that it would be unlikely to be "fixed"as it is by design.
doitright said:
How about this; next time you READ and TRY TO UNDERSTAND before just assuming that everybody besides you is an idiot, then maybe you won't be treated like YOU are the idiot.
---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------
Except that.... it is physically impossible for the device to charge when it is entirely off. The PMIC must be turned on, and for that to be on, the SoC must also, which means that the kernel must boot up. The only question is what mode it boots up into.
Fact is that if you boot into full android and turn on AIRPLANE MODE, it won't use any more power than it uses in CHARGER MODE, and it won't interrupt you -- it is *effectively* turned off.
And actually, here is an interesting piece of information for you to learn....
If you boot it to full Android, put the thing in airplane mode, unplug it, and turn the screen off... that will actually yield a lower power consumption from the device than what will happen when it is plugged in and booted to CHARGER mode. The reason is because in charger mode, it ALWAYS keeps one CPU core turned on! When it is unplugged, the charger's kernel wakelock is released, allowing ALL cores to shut down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you're missing the point. there are ways around all of it, including airplane mode, dnd modes if you have lollipop or CM, but these are still more steps than simply turning the phone off. i just want it off. fewer steps = better, and when its off there is zero chance that i forget to turn on one of these modes and be awakened at 3am by some nonsense facebook post. as mentioned earlier, other devices will charge wirelessly while off, so the issue is clearly with the nexus 6.
not sure why you're trying to make excuses here. get a nexus 5 or 7 and then tell me N6 is operating correctly. Those devices will charge while off (however you choose to define that). Whether you approve or not of the way N6 does things is irrelevant to me, but for myself and many others it is a broken situation
rootSU said:
Counter offer... Because I never assumed anyone was an idiot and actually since you haven't said anything I didn't know (you just assumed I didn't know anything.) Perhaps YOU should take your own advice before dishing out dumbed down and (although technically correct) incomplete "explanations" in a frankly condescending manor.
You didn't even try to get your head around what I was trying to say before going on the offensive.
I've been a desktop engineer for many years. I understand how hardware triggers the bootloader to hand over to the kernel. Now here I did make an assumption that firmware was involved. That's because I based it on something not dissimilar in my world. Wake on LAN. Now I fully admit that my understanding might be outmoded as its a different technology but you completely omit the fact that firmware layer says between the hardware and the bootloader or kernel. I have already said that I am not sure if the charging mode is a bootloader micro kernel or the android kernel. Different devices work differently here and I don't know which method it uses.
That said, my assumption is that like wake-on-LAN, the hardware firmware controls what is sent to the bootloader or kernel as an instruction. If that's true, no way would Google "fix" that with an OTA as why would they bother making it do that in the first place. Sure, that isn't to say it isn't doable and I never said it wasn't. Just that it would be unlikely to be "fixed"as it is by design.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets start over. Ok?
Everything involving the device turning on involves hardware and firmware. You are not being unreasonable in assuming some similarity to WOL. The main difference here is that we actually have more information available regarding the CAUSE of the wake-up. Where the WOL packet gets sent once and its over, a Qi charger *continues* to be connected and supplying power. In addition, the bootloaders on the phone actually provide more information to the kernel than you can get on a desktop/server machine.
At the most basic level, something physical happens that triggers a power up, whether that be a magnetic field received through the Qi coil, a DC current applied to the USB port, or the power button being pressed and sending a current through the 'on' pin of the PMIC.
From there, it begins executing bootloaders in the order PBL --> SBL1 --> SBL2 --> TZ --> back to SBL2 --> SBL3 --> ABOOT.
ABOOT, which carries a LittleKernel "LK" payload, is a multi-bootloader with THREE boot modes; fastboot (part of LK) selected if LK detects VOL- being pressed, boot (standard boot, linux kernel from boot partition) selected if LK detects NO Vol button being pressed, recovery (linux kernel from recovery partition) selected if LK detects VOL+ being pressed. In addition to loading and starting the linux kernel on recovery or boot partition, it sets a number of kernel parameters, indicating various other details, such as, like we've talked about, a charging reason flag.
What I *do not* know, is what the different sets of parameters look like comparing USB charging, Qi charging, and Power button.
Not that we really even NEED to know, since there are other hacks we can use to choose a boot mode.
I.e., the kernel knows when the Qi charger is connected. If there is no difference at all between the flags set by a power-button startup and a Qi charger startup, then we need only check if (a) there is a Qi charger connected during the init, and (b) that the boot reason is NOT "reboot", and use that information to decide to boot into charging mode. Let me explain the not-reboot part: If the phone is placed on the Qi pad from a power off state, it will power on right away with a reason that is not reboot. The user would not even have a chance to press the power button to turn it on, which means that the combination of "normal" boot with the presence of a Qi charger, means that it MUST be a qi-boot. If they then press the power button from charging mode to "turn it on", it will actually BE a reboot, so we can take that to mean to go into a normal boot.
I do agree, fully, that Google/Moto will NOT be changing this behavior in an OTA, since it is clearly "working as intended".... HOWEVER, this *is* a Nexus, and the best part about having a Nexus is that you can hack it to suit yourself. As a result, the discussion on how to change this behavior is still quite valid.
Related
So I just found this:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12513699#post12513699
and a modified version for my HTC Aria phone. It works great!
Is there any chance a dev here can modify CWM for eMMC to work in this way?
Pretty sure the Nook doesn't need any HTC hacks to charge while off.
isn't it an issue with the cm7 builds not being able to go into deep sleep (or having that option turned of or something?) cuz it causes problems with wifi?
i thought the not turning off if plugged in issue was related to this
nemith said:
Pretty sure the Nook doesn't need any HTC hacks to charge while off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if you were trying to be a smart-ass or not, but obviously my Nook isn't made by HTC, however if I plug it in while it's turned off, guess what, it turns on.
I believe it's a Clockwork "hack", not an HTC specific hack, but I could be wrong.
djlim4 said:
isn't it an issue with the cm7 builds not being able to go into deep sleep (or having that option turned of or something?) cuz it causes problems with wifi?
i thought the not turning off if plugged in issue was related to this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My HTC Aria is running CM7 and this hack worked perfectly for it.
911jason said:
Not sure if you were trying to be a smart-ass or not, but obviously my Nook isn't made by HTC, however if I plug it in while it's turned off, guess what, it turns on.
I believe it's a Clockwork "hack", not an HTC specific hack, but I could be wrong.
My HTC Aria is running CM7 and this hack worked perfectly for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is because it is actually supposed to turn on when you plug it in. You should have it plugged in and then shut off to have it charge while off. No need for a HTC clockwork mod, as the problem was only with HTC devices.
I know you can turn it off after it starts charging, but it's not supposed to turn on, as you say, the stock Nook doesn't.
911jason said:
I know you can turn it off after it starts charging, but it's not supposed to turn on, as you say, the stock Nook doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does. Plugging in any nook while off turns it on.
Really? Guess I missed that in the day or so that I had an unmodified Nook.
Still would like to hear from a dev whether or not the system could be modified to not fully boot when connected. It seem illogical to me to have a device as power-hungry as the Nook boot up when you want to charge it, which will slow down the charging process.
911jason said:
Really? Guess I missed that in the day or so that I had an unmodified Nook.
Still would like to hear from a dev whether or not the system could be modified to not fully boot when connected. It seem illogical to me to have a device as power-hungry as the Nook boot up when you want to charge it, which will slow down the charging process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Day of stock? Pft 10 minutes.
But yes, it does seem completely bass-ackwards to have it do that.
Isn't this driven by the whole USB then microSD then EMMC boat loader? It makes sense to me that the device be turned on when plugging in USB if your first boot device is USB.
Ahhh... didn't realize that the Nook had USB booting, that would probably kill this. I thought it was just SD, then eMMC. Bummer.
djlim4 said:
isn't it an issue with the cm7 builds not being able to go into deep sleep (or having that option turned of or something?) cuz it causes problems with wifi?
i thought the not turning off if plugged in issue was related to this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not wifi it's the touchscreen and other parts go too far into sleep and will never recover. This has nothing to do with charging or recovery.
911jason said:
I know you can turn it off after it starts charging, but it's not supposed to turn on, as you say, the stock Nook doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After plugging in the USB turn your nook off by holding the power button. It will continue to charge
911jason said:
I believe it's a Clockwork "hack", not an HTC specific hack, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a hack implemented by Clockwork to replicate the same behavior that the stock HTC recovery does on your phones.
Before this hack was in place plugging in your HTC Aria while off would force it to boot into recovery with no real reason. This modification just boots into a "off-mode charging" screen which was implemented using the recovery ramdisk and kernel but a different userspace program.
The Nook doesn't need this as it's implemented in hardware quite well.
1) The nook will turn on automatically.
2) There is not enough power the bootloader will display a screen needing more of a charge
3) It seems, based on my testing, that the nook will continue to charge even when the device is full turned off.
So in conclusionL I am glad it worked for you on your HTC Aria, but this hack is for specific HTC phones and does not apply to the nook color.
911jason said:
Really? Guess I missed that in the day or so that I had an unmodified Nook.
Still would like to hear from a dev whether or not the system could be modified to not fully boot when connected. It seem illogical to me to have a device as power-hungry as the Nook boot up when you want to charge it, which will slow down the charging process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the B&N Nook Color User Guide:
To charge your NOOKcolor from a wall outlet, do this:
1. Assemble the power adapter and microUSB cable. Insert the large end of the USB cable into the matching receptacle on the power adapter.
2. Plug the NOOKcolor end of the USB cable into your NOOKcolor.
3. Plug the power adapter into a compatible electrical outlet. If your NOOKcolor was turned off, it will now turn itself on.
NOTE: Depending on how much power remains in the battery, it might take around 3-4 hours to fully recharge
your NOOKcolor. Do not turn of your NOOKcolor while it is charging.
NOTE: Once your NOOKcolor has enough power to turn on, you can see how much power remains in the
battery by checking the battery charge indicator in the right corner of the Status Bar. You may need to
drag the green NOOK symbol to the right across your screen to unlock your NOOKcolor and display
the Status Bar, which runs along the bottom of the screen.
4. Once your NOOKcolor has fully charged, unplug the power adapter from the electrical outlet. Unplug the USB
cable from your NOOKcolor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems like there is a design reason for that.
What? You can boot off USB too? I didn't even know that!
sorry, i was totally off i guess, thanks for the clarifications guys.
I've powered my NC off after i've plugged it in and have come back to an already booted device.
This is not once or twice, it's pretty much all the time.
Maybe i just have a weird device? I DID buy it off craigslist used... but i've had no issues at all as far as user functionality goes in the month or so i've had it.
nemith said:
After plugging in the USB turn your nook off by holding the power button. It will continue to charge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I knew that, but was trying to avoid that step.
Thanks for all the info guys, I still think since the Nook does charge after powering off, it would be nice if someone could find a way to skip that whole boot/power-down process so I can just plug it in and walk away.
djlim4 said:
I've powered my NC off after i've plugged it in and have come back to an already booted device.
This is not once or twice, it's pretty much all the time.
Maybe i just have a weird device? I DID buy it off craigslist used... but i've had no issues at all as far as user functionality goes in the month or so i've had it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you running the stock ROM? Mine did the same thing until I installed a different ROM. HC and CM7 both stay off when charging after I have powered them down.
I've been running CM7 nightly builds off emmc mostly, if not the tablet tweak ones before they were integrated.
Not something I consider an issue for me, but I've yet to do any complete wipe since I first flashed CM7. I might try phiremod over the weekend unless the fascinate forum blows up with new stuff (our 2.2 source code finally dropped today), in which case I'll do a complete wipe and see if the problem persists.
EDIT: Yes, i'm running with the latest OC kernel
EDIT 2: Ok... I didn't notice before, but I guess I have a sort of faulty usb? not sure but it flickers from time to time, like on and off. I've never really paid attention to it while it charges, but i just noticed that the light on the N went off and came back on a few seconds later and confirmed that it flickers from time to time on its own. So on the bright side i guess i don't have hardware with an anomaly, too bad I have a charging cable with a mind of its own
Are you running one of Dalingrin's Overclock Kernels? I'm guessing not, since that would be the only other difference.
nemith said:
After plugging in the USB turn your nook off by holding the power button. It will continue to charge
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ADude said:
From the B&N Nook Color User Guide:
3. Plug the power adapter into a compatible electrical outlet. If your NOOKcolor was turned off, it will now turn itself on.
NOTE: Depending on how much power remains in the battery, it might take around 3-4 hours to fully recharge
your NOOKcolor. Do not turn of your NOOKcolor while it is charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems like there is a design reason for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been plugging it in and then powering it off to charge. Now I find out that the guide specifically states to not turn off your NOOKcolor while it is charging.
Will charging while it's powered off screw up the battery calibration?
edit: one thing I've noticed is that if charging powered off, the usb light never turns green when it becomes fully charged.
why cant our phones operate without a battery and jus usb plugged in? at first i thought it wasnt enough power but i just tried to do a battery pull with the usb in and the phone is still on.
I attached a picture
Dri94 said:
why cant our phones operate without a battery and jus usb plugged in? at first i thought it wasnt enough power but i just tried to do a battery pull with the usb in and the phone is still on.
I attached a picture
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am totally missing something. You're asking why our phones wont work with only a charger plugged in or a usb > computer cord and no battery but then post a pic of your phone working in just that configuration. Sounds like you answered yourself to me.
Try to do it yourself, it wont work. I was running Faceniff and it froze, but my phone was still responsive. I could press the home button and all that and it work. When faceniff froze it let it work somehow.
Dri94 said:
Try to do it yourself, it wont work. I was running Faceniff and it froze, but my phone was still responsive. I could press the home button and all that and it work. When faceniff froze it let it work somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It could have to do with the fact that the battery is 3.7V and the charger/USB are 5V. The charger must be higher in order for it to work, but there are likely curcuits that need to run at a lower voltage (3.7V). Another reason might have to do with the fact that there are 4 terminals on the battery connector and when removed, makes a break in a circuit. This could possibly be overcome by jumpering some of the battery terminals, but you would probably want schematics before attempting this and I don't think Moto is going to give those out.
That all make sense. I just dont understand why my phone would still stay on because FaceNiff froze. I dont think i could repeat it but it was one of them rare things that made me wonder why this isn't just allowed by default if the phone is capable. I know that function would not have many uses but there are times when i had to order a new battery and wanted to use my phone but couldnt. this was manily jus curiosity thread to learn why this would work then anyting important aha
Dri94 said:
That all make sense. I just dont understand why my phone would still stay on because FaceNiff froze. I dont think i could repeat it but it was one of them rare things that made me wonder why this isn't just allowed by default if the phone is capable. I know that function would not have many uses but there are times when i had to order a new battery and wanted to use my phone but couldnt. this was manily jus curiosity thread to learn why this would work then anyting important aha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand. When I mentioned the battery terminal jumper to complete the circuit, I was thinking about how you can start a manual transmission car with a dead battery just by pushing it and letting the clutch out. This turns the engine and the alternator which produces the electrical power needed to start. In theory this could work in a manual car without a battery at all, but now that I think about it you can't power this phone on even while plugged in until the battery reaches at least 5% charge. So I'm really thinking it requires the 3.7V to operate correctly.
Oh i see, that would show why it wouldnt start. Yay half that question is now answered aha. Now i just wonder why it still operated when the battery was pulled. but if you normally pull a batter, it doesnt still work.
Dri94 said:
Oh i see, that would show why it wouldnt start. Yay half that question is now answered aha. Now i just wonder why it still operated when the battery was pulled. but if you normally pull a batter, it doesnt still work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That lower voltage may only be required at startup, as in during boot up it does a self check to verify that voltage is present and than can continue to run at a higher voltage. In any circuit there has to be a voltage tolerance, so perhaps it is a software check that requires the 3.7V at startup.
It is possibly to run it without a battery installed, but not with the cable we're given. Team Black Hat sells developer cables that have something fancy going on which allows the phone to run without a battery installed.
mikedyk43 said:
That lower voltage may only be required at startup, as in during boot up it does a self check to verify that voltage is present and than can continue to run at a higher voltage. In any circuit there has to be a voltage tolerance, so perhaps it is a software check that requires the 3.7V at startup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but even if you do a battpull when already booted up the phone turns off...
To the poster above. Thats pretty cool. I neven knew that :] ima check out the diffrences between the cables. Good look.
Sent from my XT862 using Tapatalk
Dri94 said:
Yes but even if you do a battpull when already booted up the phone turns off...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However, I believe that's a "firmware" off state, not a completely powered-off state, because a battery pull after a bad recovery flash won't work if the USB cable's still plugged in. Or at least it wouldn't for me. It looked like it was off, but was still sufficiently "on" that it didn't restore the boot loader when I put the battery back in and booted back up.
It took me three tries before I twigged to the problem, and I was starting to worry that I'd managed to brick it somehow.
just try it. the next person to comment. its not firmware off state, the phone goes completely off lol
I cant get this thing to boot back up. I have tried everything there is. I tried pin reset, hard reset, nv flash restore, and i opened up the streak and pulled the battery out and still couldnt get it to power up. Is there ANY kind of fix for this that any of you might know of. YES I SEARCHED EXTENSIVELY.
Firstly the reset button is the equiv of pulling the batt, it's pretty much a hardware level button and not software level.
Have you tried charging it for a few hours, if it still doesnt enter any boot mode (normal, fastboot, APX, recovery) then it's likely dead at the hardware level.
By the fact that you said pulled battery out, I am assuming you are talking about something else or are just clueless.
giveen said:
By the fact that you said pulled battery out, I am assuming you are talking about something else or are just clueless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe a Dell Streak 5 which I believe has a removable battery?
wptski said:
Maybe a Dell Streak 5 which I believe has a removable battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly, but then he was talking about using NVFlash, but the Streak5 doesn't have a nvidia chip.
giveen said:
exactly, but then he was talking about using NVFlash, but the Streak5 doesn't have a nvidia chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I didn't know that. I'm with you now, what are they talking about?
giveen said:
exactly, but then he was talking about using NVFlash, but the Streak5 doesn't have a nvidia chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought that NVFlash was Non-Volatile Flash memory? EDIT: It comes up on our Linux machines here at work during the boot.
the NV in nvflash stands (likely) for nvidia, NV is what they use if they need to prefix something,
one example are opengl extensions, any nvidia specific extenstion is:
gl_nv_* and the nv is removed when it become fully standardized.
It could stand for non voliatile, but that term isnt really used anymore as nv memory is rather vague now, as it could be anything from e/p/p/rom to flash memory
Power LED?
First, are you using an original Dell charger? Most phone/tablet chargers on the market don't supply the necessary voltage/amperage to force begin-charging. If you're using a different charger, that may be your problem (battery totally dead) - I can't find a source for a [email protected] charger, but I did find that I can charge my Streak with an iPad charger ([email protected])
If you're using the stock charger or an iPad charger, does the Power LED turn on when you plug it in?
If it comes up solid red, you need to let it charge.
If it comes up solid orange or green, you're charged, and it may be the video cable's come loose/undone, so there's just no further indications when you power it on.
If it comes up flashing red, leave your streak plugged in and push the reset pin button. From that point, it should come up solid red (let it charge before trying to boot)
If it doesn't turn on at all, you may have a damaged charging port (VERY common issue) or a shorted motherboard (not as common but too common for my taste).
Try the above and let us know.
L4T
---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 AM ----------
TheManii said:
the NV in nvflash stands (likely) for nvidia, NV is what they use if they need to prefix something,
one example are opengl extensions, any nvidia specific extenstion is:
gl_nv_* and the nv is removed when it become fully standardized.
It could stand for non voliatile, but that term isnt really used anymore as nv memory is rather vague now, as it could be anything from e/p/p/rom to flash memory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the NV in NVFlash stands for NVidia - NVFlash is only used for download mode flashing of boards with NVidia chipsets - for comparison, ODIN is applicable to other chipsets flashing download mode...
L4T
Lookin4Trouble said:
First, are you using an original Dell charger? Most phone/tablet chargers on the market don't supply the necessary voltage/amperage to force begin-charging. If you're using a different charger, that may be your problem (battery totally dead) - I can't find a source for a [email protected] charger, but I did find that I can charge my Streak with an iPad charger ([email protected])
If you're using the stock charger or an iPad charger, does the Power LED turn on when you plug it in?
If it comes up solid red, you need to let it charge.
If it comes up solid orange or green, you're charged, and it may be the video cable's come loose/undone, so there's just no further indications when you power it on.
If it comes up flashing red, leave your streak plugged in and push the reset pin button. From that point, it should come up solid red (let it charge before trying to boot)
If it doesn't turn on at all, you may have a damaged charging port (VERY common issue) or a shorted motherboard (not as common but too common for my taste).
Try the above and let us know.
L4T
---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 AM ----------
Yes, the NV in NVFlash stands for NVidia - NVFlash is only used for download mode flashing of boards with NVidia chipsets - for comparison, ODIN is applicable to other chipsets flashing download mode...
L4T
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although the specs call for a [email protected] charger. It's a power supply and the charger is in the device for one but it never draws anywhere near 2A as I've measured it. The most it draws is around 1.2A during boot up and maybe you've noticed that the charging indicator goes OFF during boot up also. After bootup it draws around 800mA.
Some have had mixed success when using cigarette/power point automobile USB adapters. Even a 1A model "may" work if you boot up first before pugging it in. Another trick is to start with a fully charged device. Not sure what the Streak looks for to cause "more" problems than others using different models of power supplies.
There was a whole thread about this or it went OT somewhere here.
Hey all,
Before I even start here, please no snide replies about using the search box on here or anywhere... if the answer is out there, I'm at a loss for the keywords to get it. Fair enough? As FYI, bootloader is (was??) unlocked, rooted, and has cwm recovery.
So I dropped my MB886 cracking the screen (round of applause please) and in the process of disassembling the case to install replacement I tore (severed) the battery connection cable. Fast forward to phone now reassembled with new screen and battery installed --> -->
The phone now has a green LED that will respond with blinks to button certain presses i.e. the simulated battery pull, but the device doesn't show up in lsusb output or device manager. I've read of similar problems where the phone has been brought back, and I've read of the exact problem with no solution. Basically the only two things I've really read that supposedly work are battery pull button sequence and using OEM charger/cable to get battery to take a charge.
Unlike, say the Atrix 2 where the lonely white LED is there to serve as a reminder that it is a hard brick and that's all you're ever going to get from it again, I haven't even read that this is in fact the #1 sign device is now a brick. So could someone verify it is or isn't? I've never tried to access a device this way, but Is JTAG an option?
I don't get why this should be, despite battery issue, it's all simple hardware swapping involved here as the software wasn't touched and was 100% working even with cracked screen.
Thanks for anyone with an answer or the direction to one.
2 things it could be then: you over- or under-tightened the new battery cable screws to where there isn't a good connection with the board. The screws have to provide equal pressure on the positive or negative contacts or otherwise there's a fault in the circuit.
OR
Your new LCD/digitizer is defective OR wasn't seated well.
Since it was working before, and since you didn't break anything else (to your knowledge), those are the two things I would check.
Dr. Orange said:
2 things it could be then: you over- or under-tightened the new battery cable screws to where there isn't a good connection with the board. The screws have to provide equal pressure on the positive or negative contacts or otherwise there's a fault in the circuit.
OR
Your new LCD/digitizer is defective OR wasn't seated well.
Since it was working before, and since you didn't break anything else (to your knowledge), those are the two things I would check.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
--
hey, thanks for the input. I remember battery connections being snugged when I originally took it apart, and to be honest, short of having a mini torque wrench I don't know I could put them back any closer to that. the digitizer could certainly be either defective or perhaps have a bad connection, and i am certainly willing to test/check for either, however do you know that this would prevent the phone from booting or cause it to only display the green led as a sign of life? something of the "halt on all errors" in pc bios? seems logical that the led would (or could've) been used like the oc speaker and blink out some code relaying you've got a bad O2 sensor or the gas cap isn't tight.
Over tightening can cause problems. So loosen them a bit if it's just-short-of torque wrench tight. I don't know why it does, but I've read people had problems when they over tightened those screws. That green light could be telling you that the battery is connected poorly.
Is there a possibility that the battery is so depleted that it won't charge? For that, you need a factory cable to charge the battery with power off.
Sorry, to clarify, no I just snugged the battery connections when reassembling, I only meant that i don't think i could get them any closer to the way they were originally without aid of something like a torque wrench.
As for battery charge as a potential issue... to be fair, I only have a OEM Moto wall charger and I think the cable I am using is Samsung. Surely the cable itself isn't the weak link in this chain? A car battery on a multimeter reading 12.0 volts is something like 50% charged and about 12.8 volts is looking pretty good, anyone know what I should get out of the 3.8V Li-Ion on a meter?
PS I double checked the both data cable connections to the motherboard, so I doubt just a bad connection is to blame here.
slerros-1.0 said:
Sorry, to clarify, no I just snugged the battery connections when reassembling, I only meant that i don't think i could get them any closer to the way they were originally without aid of something like a torque wrench.
As for battery charge as a potential issue... to be fair, I only have a OEM Moto wall charger and I think the cable I am using is Samsung. Surely the cable itself isn't the weak link in this chain? A car battery on a multimeter reading 12.0 volts is something like 50% charged and about 12.8 volts is looking pretty good, anyone know what I should get out of the 3.8V Li-Ion on a meter?
PS I double checked the both data cable connections to the motherboard, so I doubt just a bad connection is to blame here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should get from 3.8 to 4.1.
slerros-1.0 said:
As for battery charge as a potential issue... to be fair, I only have a OEM Moto wall charger and I think the cable I am using is Samsung. Surely the cable itself isn't the weak link in this chain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I say "factory" cable, I'm not talking about the cable that came with the phone. There is a special Motorola cable (that you can even make yourself) that can charge your phone in situations when your phone is normally not willing to accept a charge.
If all else fails, try this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1077414
Yes! This is brilliant and certainly answers a few questions. It'll take me a bit to get this together to try it, but I'll post back when I get a result. Cheers!
slerros-1.0 said:
Yes! This is brilliant and certainly answers a few questions. It'll take me a bit to get this together to try it, but I'll post back when I get a result. Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scratch my previous answer. Seems I misunderstood what a "factory cable" is for. It can't actually charge your battery, instead it is used to power the phone so that you can flash/diagnose it, even when your battery is dead. Normally, you need a working phone to charge the battery (with the stock "charging cable").
This information may or may not help you. At the very least, using a "factory cable" may allow you to power your phone on, which would tell you whether the problem is your battery or the phone.
quasihellfish said:
Scratch my previous answer. Seems I misunderstood what a "factory cable" is for. It can't actually charge your battery, instead it is used to power the phone so that you can flash/diagnose it, even when your battery is dead. Normally, you need a working phone to charge the battery (with the stock "charging cable").
This information may or may not help you. At the very least, using a "factory cable" may allow you to power your phone on, which would tell you whether the problem is your battery or the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i'll take it regardless... i've acquired one of these mythical factory cables and it gets me into fastboot and recovery, so i'd wager, even though i haven't seen it, that it would boot all the way. so being that i don't have either the original charger (although have one that's motorola) or cable (samsung), my best bet is probably just find a store that has both an OEM motorola charger and cable even if they're not for the MB886? surely one for a moto x would work to charge battery, no?
or is this like a chicken and egg problem i now have? a catch 22? i can't charge the battery without a working phone, and i can't have a working phone without a charged battery? golly gee, anybody out there with an MB886 want to charge my battery for me? can i just hotwire the battery to a couple of leads from a charger and bypass using the phone as the charging device? at least to give the battery say 15%-20% to get something to happen... like get this rain cloud perpetually parked above me to blow over from above my head for a day or two maybe?
so, with phone plugged in with "factory cable" here's what i get and when... the phone bootloops on the "bootloader unlocked" warning screen if i don't press anything. volume down gets me fastboot, volume up gets me recovery. phone shows up in both and takes commands... so is it possible i just need to restore a nandroid backup, or is the battery charge the better bet now? i would just try the nandroid for $h!ts and giggles, but the last one i have isn't as fresh as i'd like, but is certainly usable if i must.
slerros-1.0 said:
well, i'll take it regardless... i've acquired one of these mythical factory cables and it gets me into fastboot and recovery, so i'd wager, even though i haven't seen it, that it would boot all the way. so being that i don't have either the original charger (although have one that's motorola) or cable (samsung), my best bet is probably just find a store that has both an OEM motorola charger and cable even if they're not for the MB886? surely one for a moto x would work to charge battery, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any generic USB charging cable SHOULD be good enough to charge and flash your phone, especially a Motorola cable. I'm currently using an old Blackberry cable for everything. They should be all the same. In rare instances, a cheap cable may give you issues (I think I had a cable from an old Samsung phone that I couldn't get to work right).
I guess just keep trying until you find one that works. Hate to tell you to go spend $20+ on an official Motorola charger...
Regarding your battery, yes you may be in a bit of a pickle. I've never had to do it, but I've read of users who had to short some leads in order to directly charge the battery. Trying searching through the forums, I'm sure the info is here.
---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------
slerros-1.0 said:
or is this like a chicken and egg problem i now have? a catch 22? i can't charge the battery without a working phone, and i can't have a working phone without a charged battery? golly gee, anybody out there with an MB886 want to charge my battery for me? can i just hotwire the battery to a couple of leads from a charger and bypass using the phone as the charging device? at least to give the battery say 15%-20% to get something to happen... like get this rain cloud perpetually parked above me to blow over from above my head for a day or two maybe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=892026
All hope is lost, I am now looking for a replacement.
Ok, so here's where I am at with this now... As we're basically talking about any regulated power supply that can put out an excess of (around) 3.8V and 800mA I've opted to use an old ATX computer power supply and wired the mini B USB end of a cable known to have in fact to have charged this very phone... nothing. I have also, for sake of hope, even tried using the wall wort from an iPad (which puts out a cool 5.1V and up to 2.1A). The green LED will shut off after a while of being plugged into said charger, but still no booty action.
As stated before, the phone still works with the factory cable.
So, I gather from this that...
A. some hardware component (i.e. resistor, etc...) on my phones board that is involved in the charging process has gone kaput.
or
B. There is some software flag flipped somewhere that could be unflipped with or without some trickery to what actually is VS what I want the phone to think it's seeing.
Anyone have any thoughts on this or something similar pertaining to B as a course of action?
*update to my update* ... umm, which should now be up to date??
I did a complete wipe of the phone (/system, /data, /data/media, /cache, and /dalvik-cache) and reinstalled the rom... and still nothing.
Hi all,
I hope somebody can point to some tests I can perform to determine what's wrong with my N7000.
Last night, my N7000 (flashed with NightOwl CM12 beta9 software) was just standing by, in normal operation mode (i.e. not during reflashing or anything of the sort), hooked up to my PC with a USB cable. I was busy with other stuff, so I was not interacting with the phone in any way.
As I was minding my business, I suddenly noticed the phone was displaying its boot screen ("Samsung Galaxy Note N7000" etc), but it remained in this screen, without actually booting. I tried a few times to take the battery out and in, then to power it up again, but it never advanced beyond the boot screen, and after a few such attempts, it is no longer showing any screen of any kind.
I'm an electronics engineer, so I'm comfortable with dealing with low-level hardware. Is there any advice, or anything I can do to analyze and/or rectify the problem with the phone?
Thanks a lot in advance.
sagie said:
Hi all,
I hope somebody can point to some tests I can perform to determine what's wrong with my N7000.
Last night, my N7000 (flashed with NightOwl CM12 beta9 software) was just standing by, in normal operation mode (i.e. not during reflashing or anything of the sort), hooked up to my PC with a USB cable. I was busy with other stuff, so I was not interacting with the phone in any way.
As I was minding my business, I suddenly noticed the phone was displaying its boot screen ("Samsung Galaxy Note N7000" etc), but it remained in this screen, without actually booting. I tried a few times to take the battery out and in, then to power it up again, but it never advanced beyond the boot screen, and after a few such attempts, it is no longer showing any screen of any kind.
I'm an electronics engineer, so I'm comfortable with dealing with low-level hardware. Is there any advice, or anything I can do to analyze and/or rectify the problem with the phone?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried charging or changing the battery first? Sounds like you need to reflash your ROM
AutumQueen92 said:
Have you tried charging or changing the battery first? Sounds like you need to reflash your ROM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply. It doesn't seem like I'm having a battery issue. I tried with two different batteries, both of them seem to be OK (I measured about 4.2V on both, with no load).
As I tried to explain in my original post, right now the screen doesn't even seem to turn on. I tried getting into download mode without the visual indications, but my PC doesn't detect a connected device. How can I reflash in such a state?
sagie said:
Thanks for your reply. It doesn't seem like I'm having a battery issue. I tried with two different batteries, both of them seem to be OK (I measured about 4.2V on both, with no load).
As I tried to explain in my original post, right now the screen doesn't even seem to turn on. I tried getting into download mode without the visual indications, but my PC doesn't detect a connected device. How can I reflash in such a state?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't help you there, originally I thought it was due to low battery juice so a charge and reflash would work. Sounds like it's been bricked though.
sagie said:
Hi all,
I hope somebody can point to some tests I can perform to determine what's wrong with my N7000.
Last night, my N7000 (flashed with NightOwl CM12 beta9 software) was just standing by, in normal operation mode (i.e. not during reflashing or anything of the sort), hooked up to my PC with a USB cable. I was busy with other stuff, so I was not interacting with the phone in any way.
As I was minding my business, I suddenly noticed the phone was displaying its boot screen ("Samsung Galaxy Note N7000" etc), but it remained in this screen, without actually booting. I tried a few times to take the battery out and in, then to power it up again, but it never advanced beyond the boot screen, and after a few such attempts, it is no longer showing any screen of any kind.
I'm an electronics engineer, so I'm comfortable with dealing with low-level hardware. Is there any advice, or anything I can do to analyze and/or rectify the problem with the phone?
Thanks a lot in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy a new battery (or use one that you know is changed) (can buy a fong kong aswell). Seems you run out of juice and there is no kernel to let it charge.
backstreetboy said:
Buy a new battery (or use one that you know is changed) (can buy a fong kong aswell). Seems you run out of juice and there is no kernel to let it charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I already wrote above, the batteries are fine. They are charged and their voltage is sufficiently high, with and without load.
sagie said:
As I already wrote above, the batteries are fine. They are charged and their voltage is sufficiently high, with and without load.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pull out battery, wait 1 minute and try again, if the display doesn't turn on i though it's an hw problem
You could try to take battery out, plug the micro-usb cable in the phone and the charger to the power outlet(not your pc or laptop) and see if it does anything. If it doesn't, try to power it on from the power button.
If it still doesn't do anything, with the battery out, plug the micro-usb in the phone, hold volume down, and, while holding, plug the other end of the usb into your computer and see if it displays anything(the computer or the phone, or both).
Still nothing? You might want to try to take it to a cellphone service in your area and ask them to try a JTAG reflash.
nundoo said:
You could try to take battery out, plug the micro-usb cable in the phone and the charger to the power outlet(not your pc or laptop) and see if it does anything. If it doesn't, try to power it on from the power button.
If it still doesn't do anything, with the battery out, plug the micro-usb in the phone, hold volume down, and, while holding, plug the other end of the usb into your computer and see if it displays anything(the computer or the phone, or both).
Still nothing? You might want to try to take it to a cellphone service in your area and ask them to try a JTAG reflash.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply, but as I wrote in my OP, I was hoping for a more technical advice than "connect usb and see if something is being displayed".
I don't have the necessary equipment for a JTAG connection, so this procedure would cost me, and I'd like to do some differential diagnosis before asking to have it done. What I'm suspecting is EMMC failure (in which case, JTAG alone won't be enough, and my data is also lost), but I don't know how to test for it - my equipment is limited to an oscilloscope, a multimeter and a soldering iron.
I've done some low-level measurements of the device, it seems the 32,768Hz and 24MHz oscillators are OK, and some good voltage readings inside the circuit suggest the power management IC is probably OK as well.
I'm reading close to zero current when battery is first attached to the device, and around 280mA when I attempt to turn on the device with the power button - but no boot screen.
To sum up: how can I determine if the EMMC is fried, or a simple resurrection via JTAG could revive the device?