Database Develop

NEW approach to rooting Perfect SPLs etc

hi all
my theory is this but i ask all of you first if this has already been tried, With OTA updates these are all signed with i imagine official OTA keys so your device will install the update no matter what.
Now my question is, is there any way of reverse engineering the OTA signed zip files to figure out what these keys are so that we can make a ROM that will enable root on devices with Perfect SPLs
all information is appreciated
Thank you

If you have any place for me to download the T-Mobile OTA updates I'd be happy to look at them for you

Im not a proggrammer or lwayer, so take my word with a pinch of salt. Wouldnt this need reverse engineering? Making this whole deal illegal?

Required reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography

aron7awol said:
Required reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography
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This. We need T-Mobile's private keys to sign the update, which won't be happening. If you can "reverse engineer" that then get ready to be famous, cause you just broke modern cryptography.

keemyb said:
Im not a proggrammer or lwayer, so take my word with a pinch of salt. Wouldnt this need reverse engineering? Making this whole deal illegal?
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Depends on what country you live in. In the US, probably. In most other countries....probably not.

Those who know little about serious cryptography often assume that a particular encryption method is safe if nobody has cracked it. However, as the eminent cryptographer Bruce Schneier pointed out in his Crypto-Gram Newsletter dated 15 February 2003, "That's actually backwards. In the world of cryptography, we assume something is broken until we have evidence to the contrary." By this he means that an encryption method can be fully trusted only if it has been subject to rigorous and critical analysis by experts to check its resistance to all known cryptanalytic attacks.

While it is true that it's pretty much impossible to crack it, you can delete the keys and make your own. Although, I'm not exactly sure this is what he is looking for...

its encrypted, although you have a public key, you cant change a update since it breaks the signature... you also cant sign an update since you dont have the private keys... basically, no.

It depends on the strength of the encryption if it is AES-128 good luck you ain't never cracking it. If its RSA-512 It could be cracked by 1 person in 2 months. Or by a team of people say using boinc in 2 days. We cracked all the OS signing keys for the Entire line of Texas Instrument Graphing Calculators got a DMCA take down as well. We got EFF lawyers working to make sure we can keep working.
http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145273.html
http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145377.html

Isnt it illegal though to be cracking this stuff?
Not saying you would get caught but if you did you may or may not be charged.
But its easy to root so why try another approach?

What would make it illegal?
YOU own the equipment.
The modifications you do to your equipment do NOT enable you to break the law and DEFINITELY do not MAKE you do illegal things.

wow thanks for everyones replies, the only reason i question is for all the new android devices come with perfected SPLs which either conquer or make it very hard to gain root, so my theory was if we could get these keys we could make Roms signed by 'android' which would contain modified SPLs and recoverys

A will a way..
With modern encryption ..there are very few people who understand it..IT CAN BE BROKEN. NOw if u want to read about a sort of physical encryption check out quantum cryptograpy.

sync3 said:
With modern encryption ..there are very few people who understand it..IT CAN BE BROKEN. NOw if u want to read about a sort of physical encryption check out quantum cryptograpy.
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im seeking some help on cracking this on a specialised java programming site so hopefully with some success we may have a solution

redmdc said:
im seeking some help on cracking this on a specialised java programming site so hopefully with some success we may have a solution
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It's still a terrible idea. You'll make T-Mo very, very angry at both you and XDA, with almost zero real gain. The rooting process is trivial, and it works. I'd also recommend talking to a lawyer if you really intend to proceed.

its only for personal gain 'wink wink' i can do what i want with my own device as long as i do not distribute it intentionally

Actually, so long as you don't distribute any code or products themselves considered proprietary to T-Mobile, if you reverse-engineer their encryption key, there's nothing they can legally do about it.
What I mean by the above is that if we treat the decryption process in a manner similar to how Cyanogen does his current ROMs, and stick to simply releasing OSS-derived code, there's really nothing that T-Mo or anyone else can do 'bout it. The trouble with this is that it would require somehow maintaining the drivers for the SPLs on the device while only modifying the portions that lead to root.

Signature Checks on Boot

Just so everyone is aware, the kernel and the recovery partition signatures are checked on each boot, changing those will leave you with a brick, until we have proper firmware to recovery with.
I found out the hard way.
On my second Atrix now.

Casualty of war

Taking one for the team

Well that sucks..
any free partitions that we can "steal"? and basically pull a haret where it loads partially from legit bootloader and kernel, then shuffles off to a different partition we CAN write for the real kernel, unloads all that other stuff and then launches the new kernel partiion we've modified?

designgears said:
Just so everyone is aware, the kernel and the recovery partition signatures are checked on each boot, changing those will leave you with a brick, until we have proper firmware to recovery with.
I found out the hard way.
On my second Atrix now.
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I guess that when we told you this, you just had to find out for yourself. The recovery should only be checked when you attempt to access it, but the kernel is checked on every boot. I hope you did not return to store as defective.

DG, thank you for putting yourself out there, and putting together roms along with the dev work.
Its nice to see some progress being done along side all the people on here saying what we shouldnt be doing/trying with our phones.

Athailias said:
DG, thank you for putting yourself out there, and putting together roms along with the dev work.
Its nice to see some progress being done along side all the people on here saying what we shouldnt be doing/trying with our phones.
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Don't thank him for repeating something which had been confirmed.

jimmydafish said:
I guess that when we told you this, you just had to find out for yourself. The recovery should only be checked when you attempt to access it, but the kernel is checked on every boot. I hope you did not return to store as defective.
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So you told me it was checked every boot (first bold), but it should only be checked when you access it (second bold)? Confused, on drugs or what?
I just found out the hard way for you, it's checked every boot accessed or not.
If you want to be elitist and not post up a FAQ about what you know (do you even have an atrix), please stop posting in here, you've done nothing but spout off what you know about other moto devices, it is clear they tightened things down a bit more.
jimmypopulous said:
Don't thank him for repeating something which had been confirmed.
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everything you guys say, along with others says it SHOULD be checked when accessed, which means I should have been able to boot normally and fail when I boot recovery.
You guys keep saying its CONFIRMED, where is it documented for the atrix. Tests performed with document results as proof.

designgears said:
So you told me it was checked every boot (first bold), but it should only be checked when you access it (second bold)? Confused, on drugs or what?
I just found out the hard way for you, it's checked every boot accessed or not.
If you want to be elitist and not post up a FAQ about what you know (do you even have an atrix), please stop posting in here, you've done nothing but spout off what you know about other moto devices, it is clear they tightened things down a bit more.
everything you guys say, along with others says it SHOULD be checked when accessed, which means I should have been able to boot normally and fail when I boot recovery.
You guys keep saying its CONFIRMED, where is it documented for the atrix. Tests performed with document results as proof.
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What is being elitist by my statement? That before you started playing with your shiny new toy, we advised that doing certain things with your phone without proper firmware to restore your phone, WOULD result in a "soft brick".
I do not have a motorola ATRIX, never said I did, but I can read the firmware pretty well. If your offended by my post I assume it is because offered up my standard line of "hope you did not return it as defective", because nothing else in that statement should lead you behave like a child.
Here how about this for a Facts, my rom was the first to safely remove Blur from the Droid series of phones safely, after reading the firmware from your phone, and your deodexed version of the firmware there are many portions you could remove safely.
If you have questions you could ask and get the answers, but as it stands right now, we are just trying to help you save yourselves. Many people will enter these forums, and while each person is responsible for their own device, they will try to follow what you have done and they too will soft brick their phone. I'm not sure of your ethical and moral makeup but too many people return their manipulated device to the provider as defective causing every to pay for their mistake.
I just hope you bought another Atrix outright and did not scam ATT/Motorola.

designgears said:
So you told me it was checked every boot (first bold), but it should only be checked when you access it (second bold)? Confused, on drugs or what?
I just found out the hard way for you, it's checked every boot accessed or not.
If you want to be elitist and not post up a FAQ about what you know (do you even have an atrix), please stop posting in here, you've done nothing but spout off what you know about other moto devices, it is clear they tightened things down a bit more.
everything you guys say, along with others says it SHOULD be checked when accessed, which means I should have been able to boot normally and fail when I boot recovery.
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DesignGears,
Please don't let a claim-to-know-it-all self-righteous Prick like jimmydafish discourage your efforts.
As far as I'm concerned (and probably the majority of people who mash the refresh button on this subforum multiple times a day would agree) it's people like you (people who have actively contributed to the users here at XDA in the past (all your captivate work)), that make me feel lucky to own the same type of device that you and other dedicated devs like yourself own.
Its hard to imagine how someone who probably played a very small part on a team -- a team that, as far as I can tell, has never managed to actually produce any real results on the DX -- can know so much about a device he doesn't even own.
And if reading this post encourages members of any such team to get their panties in a wad and start talking about how they are not going to contribute here now, well then to that I say: good riddance. For every one small tip you may provide it seams like you offer two holier-than-thou-doughe-bag-comments that frankly this section of this forum could do without.
But again, thank you DesginGears and Devs like you

mburris said:
DesignGears,
Please don't let a claim-to-know-it-all self-righteous Prick like jimmydafish discourage your efforts.
As far as I'm concerned (and probably the majority of people who mash the refresh button on this subforum multiple times a day would agree) it's people like you (people who have actively contributed to the users here at XDA in the past (all your captivate work)), that make me feel lucky to own the same type of device that you and other dedicated devs like yourself own.
Its hard to imagine how someone who probably played a very small part on a team -- a team that, as far as I can tell, has never managed to actually produce any real results on the DX -- can know so much about a device he doesn't even own.
And if reading this post encourages members of any such team to get their panties in a wad and start talking about how they are not going to contribute here now, well then to that I say: good riddance. For every one small tip you may provide it seams like you offer two holier-than-thou-doughe-bag-comments that frankly this section of this forum could do without.
But again, thank you DesginGears and Devs like you
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I can assure you I am not, glad to have support.
--
Jimmy, no hard feelins, sorry I wanted try something and learn from it, sorry you told me two opposing things in the same post(this is what I am *****ing about if you would read you would know that), sorry I act like a child, I guess calling it how I see it is childish. From all the PM's about you I just got and mburris reply, you have made my block list, have fun in there with rafy.

jimmydafish said:
I just hope you bought another Atrix outright and did not scam ATT/Motorola.
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Maybe if more people softbricked and returned phones that have locked down bootloaders, oems and carriers might finally realize that when someone buys a piece of technology, they own it, and would like to use it as such.
That includes:
1. Not having some POS skin on top of stock android (Blur)
2. Not being locked into paying twice for the data we already pay for (tethering)
3. Not being allowed to easily install non-market apps that we develop without jumping through hoops (slide loading)
4. Not having to wait for the carrier or oem mfg to release an update before we can have a current version of Android.
Call it a Brick-n-Return Protest

mburris said:
Maybe if more people softbricked and returned phones that have locked down bootloaders, oems and carriers might finally realize that when someone buys a piece of technology, they own it, and would like to use it as such.
That includes:
1. Not having some POS skin on top of stock android (Blur)
2. Not being locked into paying twice for the data we already pay for (tethering)
3. Not being allowed to easily install non-market apps that we develop without jumping through hoops (slide loading)
4. Not having to wait for the carrier or oem mfg to release an update before we can have a current version of Android.
Call it a Brick-n-Return Protest
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LOL, that would surely cause some grief over at at&t, and a good laugh.
They would probably start leasing the phones so you can't say you own them.

Closed by OP request as this is an informational thread stating results of testing.

Towel Pie Root file virus scan

Would like to be cleared up on exactly what this red is, thanks

@iKrYpToNiTe

Many Android exploit, root and hack type programs will report as viruses. It's nothing new. To those virus scanning programs, they show as potentially dangerous files cause of what they can do to a system.... And technically they are correct.
I wouldn't be concerned, unless it's reporting files you have never heard of, or things you've downloaded somewhere. The stuff you typically find on XDA has been tested and used by many and have no ill effects.
Bottom line with stuff like this in particular is... If you are unsure or don't feel safe... Don't use them. Not much else you can do. ?

This is an exploit. Of course it will be considered malicious... It gains superuser privileges.
That is of course, the desired outcome...

samwathegreat said:
This is an exploit. Of course it will be considered malicious... It gains superuser privileges.
That is of course, the desired outcome...
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off/on topic - do virus builders/coders/etc., run antivirus? do they just build everything in a sandbox? i'm only half-kidding here, but isn't virus building a bit Manhattan Project / Portable Meth Lab?

Please post questions in the Q&A thread
Thread moved

doitinthedirt said:
Would like to be cleared up on exactly what this red is, thanks
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Wow smh! It uses a freaking exploit to gain root access, WTH did you think a virus scanner would report??? Also did you not notice each of those reds say TowelRoot or Towelexploit not Towel Pie Root???? That's because Towel Root is an EXPLOIT duuuuhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! Now please put your palm to your face thanks!
640k said:
off/on topic - do virus builders/coders/etc., run antivirus? do they just build everything in a sandbox? i'm only half-kidding here, but isn't virus building a bit Manhattan Project / Portable Meth Lab?
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I don't know about others, but I actually started out coding viruses back in the day for the purpose of testing how good antivirus's were. That's why I run Malwarebytes I was able to bypass all antivirus's but Malwarebytes was always the hardest so I stuck with them. I built everything on a separate pc you never use your main rig for testing.

I appreciate the professionalism.. backing up.. now I see the reason its free of charge.. attitude when it comes to honest questions the common man doesnt know the answer to. Your work is appreciated, sarcastic reply is not

doitinthedirt said:
I appreciate the professionalism.. backing up.. now I see the reason its free of charge.. attitude when it comes to honest questions the common man doesnt know the answer to. Your work is appreciated, sarcastic reply is not
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Professionalism? This isn't a business environment, I'm the most professional person you will meet from 8 to 5 after that I throw it to wind. The reason it's free of charge is because I don't feel it's right to ask for money for what I do for fun on the side. That being said I'm a straight forward person I don't sugar coat anything. If you didn't know that a root exploit is technically a virus in a sense, then I don't know what to say besides what I said in my previous comment. My reply was sarcastic because I had to omit all of the curse words I originally wrote, trust me I would have left them in if it wasn't against XDA's rules.

iKrYpToNiTe said:
Professionalism? This isn't a business environment, I'm the most professional person you will meet from 8 to 5 after that I throw it to wind. The reason it's free of charge is because I don't feel it's right to ask for money for what I do for fun on the side. That being said I'm a straight forward person I don't sugar coat anything. If you didn't know that a root exploit is technically a virus in a sense, then I don't know what to say besides what I said in my previous comment. My reply was sarcastic because I had to omit all of the curse words I originally wrote, trust me I would have left them in if it wasn't against XDA's rules.
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we all get angry... cursing not. depends on how we choose to handle anger. rude is what your response is, a simple question , a simple answer is all thats needed. the professionalism was a joke when i said backing up LOL.. no one would pay an ass for something... no pay no professional
if you posted a considerate polite answer to a question that would be different..

Let's move on. ?

Should I root

Does rooting provide any protection against malware or does it make it worse?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Best protection against malware = user.

If you just root, and don't use a custom recovery and custom ROMs, immediately install SuperSU, antivirus, and make sure you protect yourself. SuperSU will at least notify you when an application is trying to use root permissions (aka - modify or access system files) which is not something you want every program doing.
The nice thing about having root is you can change things on your phone a launcher can't touch - boot animation, screen DPI, backup apps like Titanium Backup, and of course clearing out carrier bloatware.
If you do go with a custom recovery, TWRP for example, and flash ROMs, CyanogenMod for example, you are often provided with SuperSU tools and other options as part of the package. Just be very sure you are using images from reputable sources. Lord knows what kind of stuff someone who published a custom ROM could get off your device if they had ill intents.
If you are new to rooting, flashing, etc then I would suggest starting with root access only. Explore what you can do with it, learn it, and be conscious of security as you go. After you are comfortable with it, try CyanogenMod to see how a custom ROM really differs from stock.

Rooting will not give any protection against malware you have to install antivirus or use any app that will help you against this with root

Oh, and to answer the question 'should you root'... We tinker with all the things because we like to. We like knowing how all the things work. We like having more control of all the things. If you don't like this, then don't.

clago87 said:
Does rooting provide any protection against malware or does it make it worse?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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Android is blamed for earning malware for your device but hey! the user of the device is 100% responsible for it. Stop clicking on spammy links and visiting those websites which allow you to earn malware Problem will be solved.
Now rooting. Rooting is the best way to taste your android device at fullest. Use custom ROM, tweak the kernel and much more

clago87 said:
Does rooting provide any protection against malware or does it make it worse?
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I'm not an expert and have found the site to be filled with a lot of great, detailed information including howto instructions if you decide to root. I've rooted a few phones but not the N6 yet. I'm waiting for 5.1 to be available only because I'd rather the OTA download and didn't want it to break root and have to spend a day playing with the phone to get it set up again. Yes, lazy too. My two cents:
There were a few articles back when 5.0 was being released saying how root for this OS would need to bypass much of the built-in security features with this OS version. I don't have a clue if it is true. If I decide to root, I'll go back and see if this is a real problem.
Why root? The exposed framework gives you nice features. Apps can have access to the phone os/hardware that is blocked, for example, you can get the notification LED to work, the battery statistics allow more access so you can see what app is killing your battery. There was one or two other apps I used that required root, can't recall now.
Its easy to say malware is a user problem, some of it is like careless sideloading. But I have no idea if a web page is loading something on my phone. Worse, if you look at the permissions you grant apps, you would load very few on your phone. I find the service providers , like T-Mobile (mine) and Verizion (Fios) to be the worst in asking for access to the phone data for no apparent reason. Does my app to see visual voicemail really need access to my microphone and camera or apps I have loaded on the phone? In my opinion this is spyware as you have no idea what is being uploaded to the app developer. Many of the apps in google play have questionable permission requirements.
That's actually another reason to root, the xposed xprivacy module (haven't used it). Or, using a DNS that will filter malware web site (I think you need root to change the DNS in Android). I'm not sure about the status of xposed on the nexus 6 so you have to read the threads. I don't know why you want to root, so you have to determine if it is worth the effort.

Simple answer is No.
if you're asking if you should root then you do not know what root is and the benefits to it. if you are happy with the phone and all the apps you have suit your needs, then stay as you are and do not download any dodgy apps from the play store

IINexusII said:
Simple answer is No.
if you're asking if you should root then you do not know what root is and the benefits to it. if you are happy with the phone and all the apps you have suit your needs, then stay as you are and do not download any dodgy apps from the play store
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Couldn't agree more. If you have to ask, the answer is no.

IINexusII said:
Simple answer is No.
if you're asking if you should root then you do not know what root is and the benefits to it.
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Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
If someone asked the forum if there were any benefits in C#, would you tell them not to bother learning to program, just keep buying Microsoft products?
FFS...

Elnrik said:
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
If someone asked the forum if there were any benefits in C#, would you tell them not to bother learning to program, just keep buying Microsoft products?
FFS...
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What a terrible response. is root a programming language?

Elnrik said:
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
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No, it is the best answer. He is not asking to learn it, he is askign us to make a decision as to whether he should root or not. If he knows the benefits of root, he should make teh decision himself based on the usecase. If he doesn't know the benefits, he should read a sticky thread that lists the benefits. If he doesnt know whether he should root, then he shouldnt because it is not something to um and ahh over.

Rooting in and of itself will have no effect on your getting infected with malware or not. It may affect the degree in which something can muck up your system, because if rooted, that program can get further into the OS than if you were not.
Now, that said, the real meat of it is that if you allow sideloading, that's the one that will let apps install from downloaded files, etc.
Ever notice where they say all the android handsets are getting infected? not here in the US anyways.
If you stick to known downloads and are not trying to get hacked apps, you won't have to worry.
I have to agree with RootSU here, his last paragraph sums it up nicely.

IINexusII said:
What a terrible response. is root a programming language?
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Well, I can't resist using your own logic... If you don't know that root isn't a programming language, you shouldn't root. You probably shouldn't even reply to posts. Further, If you can't understand the example I provided, I'm not going to waste my time and explain it. You should just go read the stickies on the benefits of examples, or something. After all, you shouldn't um and ahh over this.
Facetiousness aside, if you read my example you'd see that I in no way called root a programming language. My entire point is that there are better ways to tell someone not to root. If your point to the OP is this: No, you shouldn't root because it can be dangerous, can brick your device, and that you really need to do your homework on it before you just go and do it, then tell them that! Don't condescend to them and/or future readers of the thread that not knowing it is reason enough not to do it ever. It's insulting. At least it is to me. It IS a discouragement, and in IMO, and in the spirit of XDA, we should try to point people in the right direction so they can learn and make them aware of the risks and benefits so they can make informed decisions. Sure, if it's already been covered, post a link to the thread or sticky. No need to rewrite it. But sending the message of "If you don't already know, abandon all hope now" is crap.
If you disagree with me, then I'll agree to disagree with you.
That's the last I'll say about this.
Peace

Elnrik said:
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
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I interpreted it to mean that learning more about root and what it might offer/require of a user is probably best before actually rooting and then deciding later on if that's what you really wanted to do. That is, being conservative here is probably not the worst suggestion.
- ooofest

Chainfire and Kingteam going head to head

Looks like kinguser and supersu are going head to head.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61899071&postcount=1277
I sort of agree with kingteam on this, without their hard work there would be no root for a lot of people.
On the other hand they shouldn't force a third party app on to someone's device, but maybe offer it as part of the root process.
Still supersu doesn't block users from changing to another super user app, so they shouldn't neither.
So now we know why Chainfire won't support kinguser in flashfire.

hopefully Kingteam changes their policy about removing their propriety apps. Super-sume wouldn't have been made if it were for Kingteam's policies.

The question is why anyone who offers a rooting method wishes to force the use of their software.

louiscar said:
The question is why anyone who offers a rooting method wishes to force the use of their software.
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Well i think thats obvious. If youve ever spent time and effort developing something you'd understand, its not nice that a developer puts all the effort in and then the glory is taken by another. Its obvious Kingteam put a lot of effort into their root methods and creating the root management for it to just be immediately removed without even trying it. Its actually quite good, i used it for months on my htc m8 to no ill effect.
Itd be a shame if they decided to throw in the towel and discontinue any more development because of it.

ashyx said:
Well i think thats obvious. If youve ever spent time and effort developing something you'd understand, its not nice that a developer puts all the effort in and then the glory is taken by another....
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I don't think this is about glory. I understand your point but ... the whole idea of rooting is to gain control of your device, so prohibiting you from being able to choose what you have running on your device is defeating that purpose and fundamental principle.
Although I'm prepared to accept that their reasons for doing this may not be malicious it does little to encourage trust when they appear this desperate to stop you removing their software especially since it has root access. AFAIK this isn't open source and perhaps a lot of other stuff isn't but we have a basis of trust in most of those cases.
IMHO their strategy should be as any other dev who has gained a reputation, through the right channels (such as Chainfire). It takes time but their efforts and results would speak for itself and they could allay any fears by showing their code is safe. IF they really want people to TRY their software then the route to this is not to create fear and doubt about the integrity of their software but to do the exact opposite and allow people to have peace of mind whilst they give it a bash.
They claim that their reaction to Chainfire et al not responding to their communication has resulted in the denial to the user of the rights to choose what software runs on their devices. This reaction to me is rather childish and does little to persuade the likes of Chainfire or Supersume devs to change their minds.
They (Chainfire / Supersume) may or may not be actively trying to throw this software out or 'bad mouthing it as such', I don't know I've not heard their story but it could just be they are simply maintaining the ethics of user choice in offering to remove something that Kingroot team have deliberately made difficult to do.
On the other hand if they are telling people that Kinguser 'causes conflicts' they should back that up openly and offer the choice to remove purify or not - it is a request I note Kingxteam make and would be valid IMO unless there are good reasons why not. Good reasons would be closed source or why the code may conflict, if no one can verify the software is doing only what it is supposed to (now and in the future) it's a good reason not to have it in your device.
Call me sceptical but what is really in it for them? They aren't gaining any money by you running their software, but they sure act like there is something to gain. They spent a lot of time and effort in finding root solutions but they don't appear to be like other devs who do it for the challenge, or for themselves with a mind to share and who by the way don't try to 'sell' or 'force' their methods on us - you take it or leave it, and we do with thanks and donate or buy their pro versions to show appreciation.
Kingroot (Kingteam) on the other hand appear more like a company to me but who knows. That's the whole point, we don't seem to know a whole lot about their motives and that perhaps creates doubt whether rational or not.
And I agree providing there's nothing nasty in there it would be a shame if they threw in the towel but they are going the wrong way about it to gain people's trust - I'm sure many people would love to try their software and apps provided they don't have any nagging doubts.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't condone the way they are going about things, but I do agree with their reasons. Its wrong that everyone is automatically removing kingroot/kinguser without even trying it.
Like I say I used it for a while and I actually preferred it to supersu, but now that devs like chainfire have prevented the use of kingsu with flashfire and only allows the use of his own or cwm there's no choice but to use supersu.
Now why has chainfire done that? He has basically forced people to use his own app. That's just as bad as what kingteam have done.
Don't get me wrong Chainfire is a stellar dev, but I dont understand that and that's how a lot of this has come about. Many have been converting to supersu to use flashfire. I bet there are loads that would have stuck with kinguser just for simplicity's sake if flashfire worked with it.
They don't prevent the removal of purify, I don't even think it gets installed as a system app, so its no big deal to remove. They shouldn't force install it though, that should be offered as a choice after successful root.
Neither do they prevent removal of kingroot and kinguser, it can all be cleanly removed from within kinguser.
As for being closed source that's no different to chainfires apps. His root solution is closed source and so is flashfire.
Kingteam have been around now for a while and have gained notoriety lately because their root solutions have worked for many. If they had any dishonorable intentions I'm sure it would have come out in the wash by now, but asfaik nothing untoward has happened to anyone.
I'm not protecting them in anyway just understanding their point of view, put it this way how many how have used their root exploit then clicked the link to their XDA thread and thanked them?
Probably not many, credit were credit's due I say.
Hard work deserves some recognition. Maybe I should add the link in my root thread.

Sad that this situation has occurred. I am very appreciative of Kingroot providing a method to root my Tab S without tripping KNOX. Without it I would not have rooted until my warrenty had come close to expiring. Unfortunitely I would have removed Kingroot apps for SuperSU for a few reasons
1) I already paid for SuperSU Pro and use it on my other devices
2) Flashfire providers most of my custom recovery needs which Kingroot does not. There is an argument for Flashfire being decoupled from SuperSU but not the development overhead when you flash an updated firmware ( e.g. B0E2 to B0E3). Flashing an upgrade requires the preservation of the root manager. I want OS updates that automatically preserve root so need Flashfire. Of course I've not mentioned other Flashfire features but I'm trying to stay relevant to the topic.
3) SuperSU's policies have provided methods to work around Samsung's bootloader SELinux enforcement. Without it I would not be able to use Viper4Android and an Ext4 formatted OTG microSD card.
I would have been happy to donate money to Kingroot for their rooting service but to the best of my knowledge they do not have a donate option. I would have only done so through PayPal or the Playstore. That brings me to my hesitation to using rooting methods from sources I do not know. I can say I was hesitant to use Kingroot at all and let others be the guinea pigs. Call me paranoid but I've seen first hand and read everyday the malicious nature of the net. At least Chainfire is a known developer on the Playstore.
In the end what maybe more of a question is the lack of rights that customers who purchased, not rented, their devices have. Why are unlocked bootloaders not a right with root management built in? Where do the manufacturers get off restricting me from doing what the heck I want with my devices? Sure limit my warrenty in some way (e.g. Overclocking burnout) but if hardware becomes faulty independent of rooting why should they be off the hook?
I hope some balance/compromise can be met between these important contributors.
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA Premium HD app

ashyx said:
Its wrong that everyone is automatically removing kingroot/kinguser without even trying it.
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Can you say that? The main reason people do it is because of the doubt and uncertainty of something new. Getting root is one thing and people are grateful for that but running something they are not familiar let alone trust is another.
And of course as for me too this is one of my reasons:
3DSammy said:
1) I already paid for SuperSU Pro and use it on my other devices
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.. and I'm used to using it. I should have that choice surely? And his other reasons are good and valid too.
ashyx said:
... devs like chainfire have prevented the use of kingsu with flashfire and only allows the use of his own or cwm there's no choice but to use supersu.
Now why has chainfire done that? He has basically forced people to use his own app. That's just as bad as what kingteam have done.
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I agree and I wish they'd discuss it more. I would like to know what is really going on with all this.
ashyx said:
I bet there are loads that would have stuck with kinguser just for simplicity's sake if flashfire worked with it.
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I'm sure but it's difficult to know how many more would. Some people just want root to get some degree of control. Not all are flashaholics. Doubt and uncertainty are more prevalent here because of the immediate perceived need to remove it as soon as possible.
ashyx said:
Neither do they prevent removal of kingroot and kinguser, it can all be cleanly removed from within kinguser.
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If you don't mind losing root. So it's a pointless exercise and it's a kind of blackmail.
ashyx said:
As for being closed source that's no different to chainfires apps. His root solution is closed source and so is flashfire.
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But as I say there is a basis for trust that doesn't exist with Kingroot ... yet anyway.
ashyx said:
Kingteam have been around now for a while and have gained notoriety lately because their root solutions have worked for many. If they had any dishonorable intentions I'm sure it would have come out in the wash by now, but asfaik nothing untoward has happened to anyone.
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Let's just turn on [paranoia mode] for a moment. They aren't doing anything now perhaps they just want to get as many devices running it then on a future update ..... [/paranoia mode off]
3DSammy said:
I would have been happy to donate money to Kingroot for their rooting service but to the best of my knowledge they do not have a donate option. I would have only done so through PayPal or the Playstore. That brings me to my hesitation to using rooting methods from sources I do not know. I can say I was hesitant to use Kingroot at all and let others be the guinea pigs. Call me paranoid but I've seen first hand and read everyday the malicious nature of the net. At least Chainfire is a known developer on the Playstore.
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Exactly the point. Again what is their motivation? What are they getting out of all this furious hard work on multiple devices? I looked at the purify thread - it's a fully responsive engagement of support which is not unlike a company that has a paid product out there and keen to support it for more sales.
Cloud servers, a large (don't know) team of people? Often devs like Chainfire have little time to engage on this level, they are too busy on the product AND with their own lives / jobs. This is not their full time job in most cases.
This psychology isn't unusual. If someone came to you and offered you a free lunch you are going to be suspicious right? The first thing you are going to think of is 'what's in it for them'. Right or wrong this is how we work.
3DSammy said:
I'm not protecting them in anyway just understanding their point of view, put it this way how many how have used their root exploit then clicked the link to their XDA thread and thanked them?
Probably not many, credit were credit's due I say.
Hard work deserves some recognition. Maybe I should add the link in my root thread.
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You are right - their threads do have a lot of thanks but perhaps not nearly as many as have used their solution - perhaps because of threads like yours where you provide a solution for a particular device so we don't automatically go to the Kingroot thread and leave our thanks. But bear in mind that the appearance of threads like yours in the first place were to tell people how to get rid of Kinguser after rooting.
Yes put a link and prompt to give thanks to them it's right.
For my part I would like to see some pressure or prompting for both parties to get something sorted out. Kingxteam to stop throwing toys out of the pram and writing restrictive code into their apps and Chainfire et al to come out and discuss their own restrictive policies and explain their concerns.

Welcome to a free world.
Kingroot are free to make their software anyway they want.
Chainfire is free to make his software any way he wants.
You (the user) is free to use one or the other or neither if you want.
If you dislike how kinguser is handeling this situation, but you still want a way to root without tripping knox then, you are free to design and write that code yourself.
Also as for what is in it for the kingxteam remember google, facebook, and quite a few others made products with not very solid monetarization ideas and now they are worth quite a bit. Much of the internet age has been make a product many ppl use and figure out a way to turn a profit afterwords.

Agreed, user choice at the end of the day, we get this same attitude in the HTC forum regarding sunshine s-off.
If you don't like it don't use it or remove it, they don't stop you doing that.
As for the fear factor of using an unknown app, isn't that what millions of people do everyday when installing apps on their device?
The average user never pays any mind to the permissions some of those apps use.
If it works they use it, simple as.
If your happy to let an exploit hack your device and gain high level privileges to it you can't be that concerned with Security otherwise you wouldn't root in the first place.
Too much paranoia going on here me thinks.
Personally I don't give a fig about kingteam planting a time bomb on my device, what's the worst that can happen? Once I get root I can weed out any naughty stuff.
Today's devices are becoming very secure for the average user, but the tinkerers don't like that, so what do the majority do? Root, flash custom kernels, Roms and recoveries and override all that security that's been implemented.
And were worried about a couple of little apps? Come on.

acdbrn2000 said:
Welcome to a free world.
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There's always someone who'll come up with the age old saying of 'well if you don't like it don't use it.'
Frankly there's not a lot left to say to such posts and that is probably a good point to leave it.

Well it's quite interesting to read this over a year later and seeing how Kingroot has an app in the play store but I have looked everywhere and it's installed as a system app on my phone, I was actually researching FlashFire hoping to be able to get an OTA update and now I am looking to uninstall KingRoot 5.0.0 to go back to an older version of KingRoot. I would like to be able to switch out KingSU for supersu. But each belongs to each developer.