Looks like kinguser and supersu are going head to head.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61899071&postcount=1277
I sort of agree with kingteam on this, without their hard work there would be no root for a lot of people.
On the other hand they shouldn't force a third party app on to someone's device, but maybe offer it as part of the root process.
Still supersu doesn't block users from changing to another super user app, so they shouldn't neither.
So now we know why Chainfire won't support kinguser in flashfire.
hopefully Kingteam changes their policy about removing their propriety apps. Super-sume wouldn't have been made if it were for Kingteam's policies.
The question is why anyone who offers a rooting method wishes to force the use of their software.
louiscar said:
The question is why anyone who offers a rooting method wishes to force the use of their software.
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Well i think thats obvious. If youve ever spent time and effort developing something you'd understand, its not nice that a developer puts all the effort in and then the glory is taken by another. Its obvious Kingteam put a lot of effort into their root methods and creating the root management for it to just be immediately removed without even trying it. Its actually quite good, i used it for months on my htc m8 to no ill effect.
Itd be a shame if they decided to throw in the towel and discontinue any more development because of it.
ashyx said:
Well i think thats obvious. If youve ever spent time and effort developing something you'd understand, its not nice that a developer puts all the effort in and then the glory is taken by another....
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Click to collapse
I don't think this is about glory. I understand your point but ... the whole idea of rooting is to gain control of your device, so prohibiting you from being able to choose what you have running on your device is defeating that purpose and fundamental principle.
Although I'm prepared to accept that their reasons for doing this may not be malicious it does little to encourage trust when they appear this desperate to stop you removing their software especially since it has root access. AFAIK this isn't open source and perhaps a lot of other stuff isn't but we have a basis of trust in most of those cases.
IMHO their strategy should be as any other dev who has gained a reputation, through the right channels (such as Chainfire). It takes time but their efforts and results would speak for itself and they could allay any fears by showing their code is safe. IF they really want people to TRY their software then the route to this is not to create fear and doubt about the integrity of their software but to do the exact opposite and allow people to have peace of mind whilst they give it a bash.
They claim that their reaction to Chainfire et al not responding to their communication has resulted in the denial to the user of the rights to choose what software runs on their devices. This reaction to me is rather childish and does little to persuade the likes of Chainfire or Supersume devs to change their minds.
They (Chainfire / Supersume) may or may not be actively trying to throw this software out or 'bad mouthing it as such', I don't know I've not heard their story but it could just be they are simply maintaining the ethics of user choice in offering to remove something that Kingroot team have deliberately made difficult to do.
On the other hand if they are telling people that Kinguser 'causes conflicts' they should back that up openly and offer the choice to remove purify or not - it is a request I note Kingxteam make and would be valid IMO unless there are good reasons why not. Good reasons would be closed source or why the code may conflict, if no one can verify the software is doing only what it is supposed to (now and in the future) it's a good reason not to have it in your device.
Call me sceptical but what is really in it for them? They aren't gaining any money by you running their software, but they sure act like there is something to gain. They spent a lot of time and effort in finding root solutions but they don't appear to be like other devs who do it for the challenge, or for themselves with a mind to share and who by the way don't try to 'sell' or 'force' their methods on us - you take it or leave it, and we do with thanks and donate or buy their pro versions to show appreciation.
Kingroot (Kingteam) on the other hand appear more like a company to me but who knows. That's the whole point, we don't seem to know a whole lot about their motives and that perhaps creates doubt whether rational or not.
And I agree providing there's nothing nasty in there it would be a shame if they threw in the towel but they are going the wrong way about it to gain people's trust - I'm sure many people would love to try their software and apps provided they don't have any nagging doubts.
You misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't condone the way they are going about things, but I do agree with their reasons. Its wrong that everyone is automatically removing kingroot/kinguser without even trying it.
Like I say I used it for a while and I actually preferred it to supersu, but now that devs like chainfire have prevented the use of kingsu with flashfire and only allows the use of his own or cwm there's no choice but to use supersu.
Now why has chainfire done that? He has basically forced people to use his own app. That's just as bad as what kingteam have done.
Don't get me wrong Chainfire is a stellar dev, but I dont understand that and that's how a lot of this has come about. Many have been converting to supersu to use flashfire. I bet there are loads that would have stuck with kinguser just for simplicity's sake if flashfire worked with it.
They don't prevent the removal of purify, I don't even think it gets installed as a system app, so its no big deal to remove. They shouldn't force install it though, that should be offered as a choice after successful root.
Neither do they prevent removal of kingroot and kinguser, it can all be cleanly removed from within kinguser.
As for being closed source that's no different to chainfires apps. His root solution is closed source and so is flashfire.
Kingteam have been around now for a while and have gained notoriety lately because their root solutions have worked for many. If they had any dishonorable intentions I'm sure it would have come out in the wash by now, but asfaik nothing untoward has happened to anyone.
I'm not protecting them in anyway just understanding their point of view, put it this way how many how have used their root exploit then clicked the link to their XDA thread and thanked them?
Probably not many, credit were credit's due I say.
Hard work deserves some recognition. Maybe I should add the link in my root thread.
Sad that this situation has occurred. I am very appreciative of Kingroot providing a method to root my Tab S without tripping KNOX. Without it I would not have rooted until my warrenty had come close to expiring. Unfortunitely I would have removed Kingroot apps for SuperSU for a few reasons
1) I already paid for SuperSU Pro and use it on my other devices
2) Flashfire providers most of my custom recovery needs which Kingroot does not. There is an argument for Flashfire being decoupled from SuperSU but not the development overhead when you flash an updated firmware ( e.g. B0E2 to B0E3). Flashing an upgrade requires the preservation of the root manager. I want OS updates that automatically preserve root so need Flashfire. Of course I've not mentioned other Flashfire features but I'm trying to stay relevant to the topic.
3) SuperSU's policies have provided methods to work around Samsung's bootloader SELinux enforcement. Without it I would not be able to use Viper4Android and an Ext4 formatted OTG microSD card.
I would have been happy to donate money to Kingroot for their rooting service but to the best of my knowledge they do not have a donate option. I would have only done so through PayPal or the Playstore. That brings me to my hesitation to using rooting methods from sources I do not know. I can say I was hesitant to use Kingroot at all and let others be the guinea pigs. Call me paranoid but I've seen first hand and read everyday the malicious nature of the net. At least Chainfire is a known developer on the Playstore.
In the end what maybe more of a question is the lack of rights that customers who purchased, not rented, their devices have. Why are unlocked bootloaders not a right with root management built in? Where do the manufacturers get off restricting me from doing what the heck I want with my devices? Sure limit my warrenty in some way (e.g. Overclocking burnout) but if hardware becomes faulty independent of rooting why should they be off the hook?
I hope some balance/compromise can be met between these important contributors.
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA Premium HD app
ashyx said:
Its wrong that everyone is automatically removing kingroot/kinguser without even trying it.
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Click to collapse
Can you say that? The main reason people do it is because of the doubt and uncertainty of something new. Getting root is one thing and people are grateful for that but running something they are not familiar let alone trust is another.
And of course as for me too this is one of my reasons:
3DSammy said:
1) I already paid for SuperSU Pro and use it on my other devices
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Click to collapse
.. and I'm used to using it. I should have that choice surely? And his other reasons are good and valid too.
ashyx said:
... devs like chainfire have prevented the use of kingsu with flashfire and only allows the use of his own or cwm there's no choice but to use supersu.
Now why has chainfire done that? He has basically forced people to use his own app. That's just as bad as what kingteam have done.
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Click to collapse
I agree and I wish they'd discuss it more. I would like to know what is really going on with all this.
ashyx said:
I bet there are loads that would have stuck with kinguser just for simplicity's sake if flashfire worked with it.
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Click to collapse
I'm sure but it's difficult to know how many more would. Some people just want root to get some degree of control. Not all are flashaholics. Doubt and uncertainty are more prevalent here because of the immediate perceived need to remove it as soon as possible.
ashyx said:
Neither do they prevent removal of kingroot and kinguser, it can all be cleanly removed from within kinguser.
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Click to collapse
If you don't mind losing root. So it's a pointless exercise and it's a kind of blackmail.
ashyx said:
As for being closed source that's no different to chainfires apps. His root solution is closed source and so is flashfire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But as I say there is a basis for trust that doesn't exist with Kingroot ... yet anyway.
ashyx said:
Kingteam have been around now for a while and have gained notoriety lately because their root solutions have worked for many. If they had any dishonorable intentions I'm sure it would have come out in the wash by now, but asfaik nothing untoward has happened to anyone.
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Click to collapse
Let's just turn on [paranoia mode] for a moment. They aren't doing anything now perhaps they just want to get as many devices running it then on a future update ..... [/paranoia mode off]
3DSammy said:
I would have been happy to donate money to Kingroot for their rooting service but to the best of my knowledge they do not have a donate option. I would have only done so through PayPal or the Playstore. That brings me to my hesitation to using rooting methods from sources I do not know. I can say I was hesitant to use Kingroot at all and let others be the guinea pigs. Call me paranoid but I've seen first hand and read everyday the malicious nature of the net. At least Chainfire is a known developer on the Playstore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly the point. Again what is their motivation? What are they getting out of all this furious hard work on multiple devices? I looked at the purify thread - it's a fully responsive engagement of support which is not unlike a company that has a paid product out there and keen to support it for more sales.
Cloud servers, a large (don't know) team of people? Often devs like Chainfire have little time to engage on this level, they are too busy on the product AND with their own lives / jobs. This is not their full time job in most cases.
This psychology isn't unusual. If someone came to you and offered you a free lunch you are going to be suspicious right? The first thing you are going to think of is 'what's in it for them'. Right or wrong this is how we work.
3DSammy said:
I'm not protecting them in anyway just understanding their point of view, put it this way how many how have used their root exploit then clicked the link to their XDA thread and thanked them?
Probably not many, credit were credit's due I say.
Hard work deserves some recognition. Maybe I should add the link in my root thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right - their threads do have a lot of thanks but perhaps not nearly as many as have used their solution - perhaps because of threads like yours where you provide a solution for a particular device so we don't automatically go to the Kingroot thread and leave our thanks. But bear in mind that the appearance of threads like yours in the first place were to tell people how to get rid of Kinguser after rooting.
Yes put a link and prompt to give thanks to them it's right.
For my part I would like to see some pressure or prompting for both parties to get something sorted out. Kingxteam to stop throwing toys out of the pram and writing restrictive code into their apps and Chainfire et al to come out and discuss their own restrictive policies and explain their concerns.
Welcome to a free world.
Kingroot are free to make their software anyway they want.
Chainfire is free to make his software any way he wants.
You (the user) is free to use one or the other or neither if you want.
If you dislike how kinguser is handeling this situation, but you still want a way to root without tripping knox then, you are free to design and write that code yourself.
Also as for what is in it for the kingxteam remember google, facebook, and quite a few others made products with not very solid monetarization ideas and now they are worth quite a bit. Much of the internet age has been make a product many ppl use and figure out a way to turn a profit afterwords.
Agreed, user choice at the end of the day, we get this same attitude in the HTC forum regarding sunshine s-off.
If you don't like it don't use it or remove it, they don't stop you doing that.
As for the fear factor of using an unknown app, isn't that what millions of people do everyday when installing apps on their device?
The average user never pays any mind to the permissions some of those apps use.
If it works they use it, simple as.
If your happy to let an exploit hack your device and gain high level privileges to it you can't be that concerned with Security otherwise you wouldn't root in the first place.
Too much paranoia going on here me thinks.
Personally I don't give a fig about kingteam planting a time bomb on my device, what's the worst that can happen? Once I get root I can weed out any naughty stuff.
Today's devices are becoming very secure for the average user, but the tinkerers don't like that, so what do the majority do? Root, flash custom kernels, Roms and recoveries and override all that security that's been implemented.
And were worried about a couple of little apps? Come on.
acdbrn2000 said:
Welcome to a free world.
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Click to collapse
There's always someone who'll come up with the age old saying of 'well if you don't like it don't use it.'
Frankly there's not a lot left to say to such posts and that is probably a good point to leave it.
Well it's quite interesting to read this over a year later and seeing how Kingroot has an app in the play store but I have looked everywhere and it's installed as a system app on my phone, I was actually researching FlashFire hoping to be able to get an OTA update and now I am looking to uninstall KingRoot 5.0.0 to go back to an older version of KingRoot. I would like to be able to switch out KingSU for supersu. But each belongs to each developer.
Related
I rooted my phone using Kingo. It has been perfect. It appears to be totally fine. I get up this morning and find the below comment and closed thread. Do we need to undo root and flash back to stock? Someone please help with this situation. I'm sure a bunch of people did this and would like to know what we should do now. Thanks Devs.
Kingo and vroot have been determined to be malware and unsafe for use, as such all threads will be closed and links removed.
Thank you
LuckyColdJohnson said:
I rooted my phone using Kingo. It has been perfect. It appears to be totally fine. I get up this morning and find the below comment and closed thread. Do we need to undo root and flash back to stock? Someone please help with this situation. I'm sure a bunch of people did this and would like to know what we should do now. Thanks Devs.
Kingo and vroot have been determined to be malware and unsafe for use, as such all threads will be closed and links removed.
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Click to collapse
This thread would be more helpful if it had an informative subject line, such as "What to do about Kingo malware?". The subject you provided ("What should we do now?") gives readers no clue what the thread is about.
Anyway, does anyone know how the malware determination was made, and by whom? Does the purported malware afflict the PC that runs the software, the phone that gets rooted, or both?
Also, I notice that the locked Kingo thread in the dev forum only mentions the malware determination in the last post of the thread. Anyone who just reads the initial post, or who doesn't read all the way to the end, will still think the software has been confirmed ok. (I know the download link in the initial post has been removed, but that has little effect since the software is trivially Googled.)
Gary02468 said:
This thread would be more helpful if it had an informative subject line, such as "What to do about Kingo malware?". The subject you provided ("What should we do now?") gives readers no clue what the thread is about.
Anyway, does anyone know how the malware determination was made, and by whom? Does the purported malware afflict the PC that runs the software, the phone that gets rooted, or both?
Also, I notice that the locked Kingo thread in the dev forum only mentions the malware determination in the last post of the thread. Anyone who just reads the initial post, or who doesn't read all the way to the end, will still think the software has been confirmed ok. (I know the download link in the initial post has been removed, but that has little effect since the software is trivially Googled.)
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Click to collapse
Looking at it now, I agree with the subject line needing to be a little better.
I was just told by a MOD the following. >
So now that I already have Kingo, what do you think I should do ? Keep it, our undo it? Please let me know, because I dont see anything wrong with it. Phone is working great.
MOD Get rid of it, it steals your information and sends it to remote servers and leaves back doors on your device and pc
MOD Correction, it's thought to do these things
Okay, I will undo it......When I plug my phone back up to PC and run Kingo, it has an Unroot option. Should I do it that way? Or should I look for STOCK files that came with the phone and us Odin to flash it? Thanks for your time.
MOD Stock, don't use the app anymore
If it's really malware (I don't know how that determination was made), any passwords, credit-card or bank-account numbers, etc. on your PC or your phone may have been exposed and should be changed now. Your PC and your phone may need to be disinfected, preferably by clean-installing a known-good system.
Just for future reference, when a company with no known track record offers free, unvetted, closed-source software, it's risky to install it on any system whose integrity you care about. That's especially the case when they claim to be a commercial venture but they say that their product will always be free, and there's no apparent way for them to profit from it.
I still don't know what evidence, if any, shows that this software is malicious. But it seemed blatantly suspicious from the beginning, so I've refrained from installing it.
---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------
LuckyColdJohnson said:
MOD Get rid of it, it steals your information and sends it to remote servers and leaves back doors on your device and pc
MOD Correction, it's thought to do these things
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Click to collapse
Thought by whom, and on the basis of what evidence, if any?
Gary02468 said:
If it's really malware (I don't know how that determination was made), any passwords, credit-card or bank-account numbers, etc. on your PC or your phone may have been exposed and should be changed now. Your PC and your phone may need to be disinfected, preferably by clean-installing a known-good system.
Just for future reference, when a company with no known track record offers free, unvetted, closed-source software, it's risky to install it on any system whose integrity you care about. That's especially the case when they claim to be a commercial venture but they say that their product will always be free, and there's no apparent way for them to profit from it.
I still don't know what evidence, if any, shows that this software is malicious. But it seemed blatantly suspicious from the beginning, so I've refrained from installing it.
---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------
Thought by whom, and on the basis of what evidence, if any?
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Click to collapse
Well lets see here. The Devs and Moderators do a lot here at XDA. We trust them, and we do things to our phones.
Why wouldn't we trust what they say about certain methods? Threads and links being closed. I'm just saying...
Now I really want to make my phone go back to how it was when I bought it.
If there is anybody that's done it, I would love to know how.
It would be great if I could just use Odin with a file and not trip anything and go back. Please help me/others if this is possible.
Im sick to my stomach now. I knew I should of waited. **** !!!
LuckyColdJohnson said:
Well lets see here. The Devs and Moderators do a lot here at XDA. We trust them, and we do things to our phones.
Why wouldn't we trust what they say about certain methods?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far, no dev or mod has claimed here to have specific evidence that the software in question is malicious.
Sure, there's reason to be suspicious. But that was already obvious just from looking at the Kingo website.
Gary02468 said:
So far, no dev or mod has claimed here to have specific evidence that the software in question is malicious.
Sure, there's reason to be suspicious. But that was already obvious just from looking at the Kingo website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what to do. I have been rooting and modding phones and other electronics for years and now I feel like it's just not worth it. I trusted XDA and the Devs a lot. Heck a dev said that this way was easier and closed an old thread. So I ran with it and now 2 days later it's closed as well. I'm disappointed
LuckyColdJohnson said:
I don't know what to do. I have been rooting and modding phones and other electronics for years and now I feel like it's just not worth it. I trusted XDA and the Devs a lot. Heck a dev said that this way was easier and closed an old thread. So I ran with it and now 2 days later it's closed as well. I'm disappointed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you need to look more closely at what it means to trust someone.
I do trust the devs here regarding the integrity of their own software, because their track record gives me evidence that they're trustworthy in that regard. I've flashed ROMs from here many times.
But I don't trust the devs--or anyone in the world--in the sense of automatically believing what they say about everything. I'm sure they wouldn't expect me to.
So if a dev makes an offhand remark that someone else's software (that they have no way of examining) is safe, then of course I'm not going to just take their word for it. And if they make an equally offhand remark that the software is malicious--but fail to mention why they think so--then I'm not going to automatically believe that, either.
LuckyColdJohnson said:
I don't know what to do. I have been rooting and modding phones and other electronics for years and now I feel like it's just not worth it. I trusted XDA and the Devs a lot. Heck a dev said that this way was easier and closed an old thread. So I ran with it and now 2 days later it's closed as well. I'm disappointed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you reroot using De La Vega by DG? Although his method will wipe your phone back to stock but at least you know it works and it's safe.
Gary02468 said:
I think you need to look more closely at what it means to trust someone.
I do trust the devs here regarding the integrity of their own software, because their track record gives me evidence that they're trustworthy in that regard. I've flashed ROMs from here many times.
But I don't trust the devs--or anyone in the world--in the sense of automatically believing what they say about everything. I'm sure they wouldn't expect me to.
So if a dev makes an offhand remark that someone else's software (that they have no way of examining) is safe, then of course I'm not going to just take their word for it. And if they make an equally offhand remark that the software is malicious--but fail to mention why they think so--then I'm not going to automatically believe that, either.
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Click to collapse
I agree man. Thanks for your input, I'm just a little mad. I did pay 399.00 for this and now, I just want it back to Stock. Thanks again, looking for a way.
ukic said:
Why don't you reroot using De La Vega by DG? Although his method will wipe your phone back to stock but at least you know it works and it's safe.
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Click to collapse
Yup. If the phone is infected, wiping it clean is what you want to do anyway.
---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------
LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree man. Thanks for your input, I'm just a little mad. I did pay 399.00 for this and now, I just want it back to Stock. Thanks again, looking for a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your course of action depends on how much you have at risk. Do you have sensitive/valuable passwords, account numbers, etc. on your phone or your PC?
If you don't, then you might want to just ignore the risk until and unless someone establishes that Kingo is really malware.
But if you do have sensitive information at risk, your decision is trickier. The only really secure course of action would be to wipe both your phone and your PC, and to reset all your potentially-exposed passwords and financial accounts. But that's a lot of work to go to for a threat that might not even exist. So it really depends on what you have at stake.
In any case, I wish you the best of luck!
If all it does is send info to their servers I ponder if I could just start it under a virtual machine with no internet connection and root.
is the internet connection required?
I would much rather flash two second than a 2 gig file it just sounds alot riskier
Sent from my XT907 using xda app-developers app
mrkhigh said:
If all it does is send info to their servers I ponder if I could just start it under a virtual machine with no internet connection and root.
is the internet connection required?
I would much rather flash two second than a 2 gig file it just sounds alot riskier
Sent from my XT907 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are just rumors and a Moderator let us know it wasn't safe so,,,,,,I just want to go back. Cant right now. Cant find the At&T Firmware,,I dont think its available yet.
For all we know, Vroot and Kingo could be okay. IDK
Grrrr so we shouldnt use Kingo unroot method...Im a feard...anyone know what to do now
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using xda app-developers app
mrkhigh said:
If all it does is send info to their servers I ponder if I could just start it under a virtual machine with no internet connection and root.
is the internet connection required?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking this as well but if the application leaves a back door open on the device itself then unless you plan on having your phone in Airplane mode 24/7 it would eventually send its payload over the wire.
I think the PC portion is controllable, its the mobile portion that has a lot of people on edge.
I found this website:
www[dot]majorgeeks.com/files/details/kingo_android_root[dot]html
Which seems to have links back into XDA about who made the claim and what not.
I see it like this, until someone can prove without a doubt that it is opening holes in devices and leaking information, its just another "he-said-she-said" argument.
exaltedgod said:
I was thinking this as well but if the application leaves a back door open on the device itself then unless you plan on having your phone in Airplane mode 24/7 it would eventually send its payload over the wire.
I think the PC portion is controllable, its the mobile portion that has a lot of people on edge.
I found this website:
www[dot]majorgeeks.com/files/details/kingo_android_root[dot]html
Which seems to have links back into XDA about who made the claim and what not.
I see it like this, until someone can prove without a doubt that it is opening holes in devices and leaking information, its just another "he-said-she-said" argument.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or someone is mad because they didn't come up with a root solution like this first, LOL just saying.
I tried the Vroot first, and it had a superuser app (from playstore) but its all in Chinese letters.
So I uninstalled that super user app and used Kingo to unroot (Which works perfectly)
Then I rebooted and rooted using Kingo. (Worked perfectly)
It put the superSU on there (In English) and has been awesome
Now Im going back to stock and never rooting again in my life because it pisses me off I can't trust ...Never mind
I will be using Vega method soon as I get home and Im done. This sucks. Battery life will also suck. Aw well. At least my info will be protected
I guess. Kingo,,,I wish they wouldn't of said that about you. Now I want you gone.
I've contacted Kingo on their website and asked them to comment, hopefully they will respond to the possibility of their app being permanently declared malware on the largest Android forum on the net. We'll see what they have to say about it, if anything.
Response from Kingo.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2515879
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using xda app-developers app
Im back on stock and honestly, the phone fly's better.
I also have the watch so I'm going to wait for a new root method on new updated firmware.
This phone feels better and I got a better AnTUTU score without root.
LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree man. Thanks for your input, I'm just a little mad. I did pay 399.00 for this and now, I just want it back to Stock. Thanks again, looking for a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root De La Vega works fine. Yes it does take a little more work and you have to wipe data but I've rooted/unrooted/rooted again and I've had no issues using DesignGear's method. DesignGear's is a great Dev...I don't think him telling people to use Kingo should change that opinion. Kingo seemed really, really weird to me from the beginning...but it does root the phone!
Does rooting provide any protection against malware or does it make it worse?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Best protection against malware = user.
If you just root, and don't use a custom recovery and custom ROMs, immediately install SuperSU, antivirus, and make sure you protect yourself. SuperSU will at least notify you when an application is trying to use root permissions (aka - modify or access system files) which is not something you want every program doing.
The nice thing about having root is you can change things on your phone a launcher can't touch - boot animation, screen DPI, backup apps like Titanium Backup, and of course clearing out carrier bloatware.
If you do go with a custom recovery, TWRP for example, and flash ROMs, CyanogenMod for example, you are often provided with SuperSU tools and other options as part of the package. Just be very sure you are using images from reputable sources. Lord knows what kind of stuff someone who published a custom ROM could get off your device if they had ill intents.
If you are new to rooting, flashing, etc then I would suggest starting with root access only. Explore what you can do with it, learn it, and be conscious of security as you go. After you are comfortable with it, try CyanogenMod to see how a custom ROM really differs from stock.
Rooting will not give any protection against malware you have to install antivirus or use any app that will help you against this with root
Oh, and to answer the question 'should you root'... We tinker with all the things because we like to. We like knowing how all the things work. We like having more control of all the things. If you don't like this, then don't.
clago87 said:
Does rooting provide any protection against malware or does it make it worse?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is blamed for earning malware for your device but hey! the user of the device is 100% responsible for it. Stop clicking on spammy links and visiting those websites which allow you to earn malware Problem will be solved.
Now rooting. Rooting is the best way to taste your android device at fullest. Use custom ROM, tweak the kernel and much more
clago87 said:
Does rooting provide any protection against malware or does it make it worse?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not an expert and have found the site to be filled with a lot of great, detailed information including howto instructions if you decide to root. I've rooted a few phones but not the N6 yet. I'm waiting for 5.1 to be available only because I'd rather the OTA download and didn't want it to break root and have to spend a day playing with the phone to get it set up again. Yes, lazy too. My two cents:
There were a few articles back when 5.0 was being released saying how root for this OS would need to bypass much of the built-in security features with this OS version. I don't have a clue if it is true. If I decide to root, I'll go back and see if this is a real problem.
Why root? The exposed framework gives you nice features. Apps can have access to the phone os/hardware that is blocked, for example, you can get the notification LED to work, the battery statistics allow more access so you can see what app is killing your battery. There was one or two other apps I used that required root, can't recall now.
Its easy to say malware is a user problem, some of it is like careless sideloading. But I have no idea if a web page is loading something on my phone. Worse, if you look at the permissions you grant apps, you would load very few on your phone. I find the service providers , like T-Mobile (mine) and Verizion (Fios) to be the worst in asking for access to the phone data for no apparent reason. Does my app to see visual voicemail really need access to my microphone and camera or apps I have loaded on the phone? In my opinion this is spyware as you have no idea what is being uploaded to the app developer. Many of the apps in google play have questionable permission requirements.
That's actually another reason to root, the xposed xprivacy module (haven't used it). Or, using a DNS that will filter malware web site (I think you need root to change the DNS in Android). I'm not sure about the status of xposed on the nexus 6 so you have to read the threads. I don't know why you want to root, so you have to determine if it is worth the effort.
Simple answer is No.
if you're asking if you should root then you do not know what root is and the benefits to it. if you are happy with the phone and all the apps you have suit your needs, then stay as you are and do not download any dodgy apps from the play store
IINexusII said:
Simple answer is No.
if you're asking if you should root then you do not know what root is and the benefits to it. if you are happy with the phone and all the apps you have suit your needs, then stay as you are and do not download any dodgy apps from the play store
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. If you have to ask, the answer is no.
IINexusII said:
Simple answer is No.
if you're asking if you should root then you do not know what root is and the benefits to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
If someone asked the forum if there were any benefits in C#, would you tell them not to bother learning to program, just keep buying Microsoft products?
FFS...
Elnrik said:
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
If someone asked the forum if there were any benefits in C#, would you tell them not to bother learning to program, just keep buying Microsoft products?
FFS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What a terrible response. is root a programming language?
Elnrik said:
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it is the best answer. He is not asking to learn it, he is askign us to make a decision as to whether he should root or not. If he knows the benefits of root, he should make teh decision himself based on the usecase. If he doesn't know the benefits, he should read a sticky thread that lists the benefits. If he doesnt know whether he should root, then he shouldnt because it is not something to um and ahh over.
Rooting in and of itself will have no effect on your getting infected with malware or not. It may affect the degree in which something can muck up your system, because if rooted, that program can get further into the OS than if you were not.
Now, that said, the real meat of it is that if you allow sideloading, that's the one that will let apps install from downloaded files, etc.
Ever notice where they say all the android handsets are getting infected? not here in the US anyways.
If you stick to known downloads and are not trying to get hacked apps, you won't have to worry.
I have to agree with RootSU here, his last paragraph sums it up nicely.
IINexusII said:
What a terrible response. is root a programming language?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I can't resist using your own logic... If you don't know that root isn't a programming language, you shouldn't root. You probably shouldn't even reply to posts. Further, If you can't understand the example I provided, I'm not going to waste my time and explain it. You should just go read the stickies on the benefits of examples, or something. After all, you shouldn't um and ahh over this.
Facetiousness aside, if you read my example you'd see that I in no way called root a programming language. My entire point is that there are better ways to tell someone not to root. If your point to the OP is this: No, you shouldn't root because it can be dangerous, can brick your device, and that you really need to do your homework on it before you just go and do it, then tell them that! Don't condescend to them and/or future readers of the thread that not knowing it is reason enough not to do it ever. It's insulting. At least it is to me. It IS a discouragement, and in IMO, and in the spirit of XDA, we should try to point people in the right direction so they can learn and make them aware of the risks and benefits so they can make informed decisions. Sure, if it's already been covered, post a link to the thread or sticky. No need to rewrite it. But sending the message of "If you don't already know, abandon all hope now" is crap.
If you disagree with me, then I'll agree to disagree with you.
That's the last I'll say about this.
Peace
Elnrik said:
Terrible answer! Just because someone doesn't already know something is piss poor justification for telling them not to learn it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I interpreted it to mean that learning more about root and what it might offer/require of a user is probably best before actually rooting and then deciding later on if that's what you really wanted to do. That is, being conservative here is probably not the worst suggestion.
- ooofest
Alright, so we now have root (somewhat), but now, we yearn for BL unlock. I've been investigating, but I've come up short. I'm in no way a developer (other than some basic HTML/CSS knowledge), so maybe the community can brainstorm and churn out ideas. If you have 'em, let 'em rip! :good:
EDIT: Ok, yes, I realize that I 'dun goofed. There are multiple threads about this and I made a mistake between root and WP. I know maiko1 has worked hard on getting us root, and I and everyone else appreciates it. My apologies for disturbing the peace.
jake7405 said:
Alright, so we now have root (somewhat), but now, we yearn for BL unlock. I've been investigating, but I've come up short. I'm in no way a developer (other than some basic HTML/CSS knowledge), so maybe the community can brainstorm and churn out ideas. If you have 'em, let 'em rip! :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/droid-turbo/general/bounty-disable-write-protection-unlock-t3067615
There are already multiple threads on this topic you are bringing up. Also what u have is root....there is no somewhat or in between. If you dont understand what moforoot does for the turbo then you shouldnt be tweaking your device in the first place.
I think the way is have a moto maxx and droid turbo together and study what changes with unlocking in maxx
the_rooter said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/droid-turbo/general/bounty-disable-write-protection-unlock-t3067615
There are already multiple threads on this topic you are bringing up. Also what u have is root....there is no somewhat or in between. If you dont understand what moforoot does for the turbo then you shouldnt be tweaking your device in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, but that's a bounty thread. This isn't, I must made this for general brainstorming and idea sharing. Also I only called it somewhat root because of write protection, but I get what you mean. Sorry if I'm bringing up an already discussed topic, but I know everyone is yearning for some kind of unlock, and I figure that discussion and brainstorm is good to help keep the idea moving forward.
what gets me, and no offense to anyone, but those with the skills and knowledge to do this do not brainstorm said ideas on xda, but in other resources and areas or in idfferent areas of xda. Too many people who have no idea what they are doing would hinder the process of accomplishing the goal. while i think this threads are a good thing in a way, they are really useless because the ones with the knowledge do not really come here and discuss the insanely complicated procedure of what must be done in order to accomplish things.
Here is another thread with the same idea called Droid Turbo Think Tank.
Nearly every person I've come into contact with has said it is possible to unlock the bootloader so that gives hope. But just don't expect it soon.
jake7405 said:
Alright, so we now have root (somewhat), but now, we yearn for BL unlock. I've been investigating, but I've come up short. I'm in no way a developer (other than some basic HTML/CSS knowledge), so maybe the community can brainstorm and churn out ideas. If you have 'em, let 'em rip! :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When will this issue die? Root ACCESS, and write protection are NOT the same thing. Totally independent of each other. Everyone assuming that they are the same thing is starting to get ridiculous it has been explained here multiple times.
renegadeone8 said:
When will this issue die? Root ACCESS, and write protection are NOT the same thing. Totally independent of each other. Everyone assuming that they are the same thing is starting to get ridiculous it has been explained here multiple times.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you explain this difference? I now understand they are different. I previously thought root was defined by having read write and execute permissions everywhere (including to the system)
Clearly I'm not right. But maybe you could explain that to me
Diego1751 said:
Can you explain this difference? I now understand they are different. I previously thought root was defined by having read write and execute permissions everywhere (including to the system)
Clearly I'm not right. But maybe you could explain that to me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I may be wrong. That said, how I see it and how wiki answers:
Rooting "is the process of allowing users...running the Android mobile operating system to attain privileged control (known as "root access") over various Android's subsystems."
Privileged control "is the act of exploiting a bug, design flaw or configuration oversight in an operating system or software application to gain elevated access to resources that are normally protected from an application or user"
So by that, we have root. We (really maiko1) have exploited a bug that has given us elevated access to the system partition which is normally protected from us, the user.
Write protection is literally what it is. Protection from unauthorized code to be written.
I look at it as, we have root. A (seemingly large portion) of people had the same definition of Root as you, so those people are all upset merely because they started from an incorrect assumption of what they want. (Write access)
So say every birthday (phone) you have, Im going to get you a cake (Root) And every birthday that cake comes out and all your friends (Write access) surround you to celebrate. Well I never said I was bringing your friends, I just said cake. Then one year no friends come and all you have is cake. Now youre saying this isnt cake, where are my friends.. And my response is, no no no, I said I was giving you cake. Heres your cake, Its not my fault you assumed the friends always came with the cake.
Diego1751 said:
Can you explain this difference? I now understand they are different. I previously thought root was defined by having read write and execute permissions everywhere (including to the system)
Clearly I'm not right. But maybe you could explain that to me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basic Analogy: Compare Android to Windows for a second. Pretend that Microsoft removed the Administrator account, so nobody could use it, and they set up write-protection on C:\ and restricted your write abilities to C:\Users\YourUserName. So someone (maiko1) comes along and finds a way to re-enable the Administrator account, and you can use it, but due to write protection, you can only write to anywhere in C:\Users. Make sense?
r3pwn said:
Basic Analogy: Compare Android to Windows for a second. Pretend that Microsoft removed the Administrator account, so nobody could use it, and they set up write-protection on C:\ and restricted your write abilities to C:\Users\YourUserName. So someone (maiko1) comes along and finds a way to re-enable the Administrator account, and you can use it, but due to write protection, you can only write to anywhere in C:\Users. Make sense?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ntxct said:
I may be wrong. That said, how I see it and how wiki answers:
Rooting "is the process of allowing users...running the Android mobile operating system to attain privileged control (known as "root access") over various Android's subsystems."
Privileged control "is the act of exploiting a bug, design flaw or configuration oversight in an operating system or software application to gain elevated access to resources that are normally protected from an application or user"
So by that, we have root. We (really maiko1) have exploited a bug that has given us elevated access to the system partition which is normally protected from us, the user.
Write protection is literally what it is. Protection from unauthorized code to be written.
I look at it as, we have root. A (seemingly large portion) of people had the same definition of Root as you, so those people are all upset merely because they started from an incorrect assumption of what they want. (Write access)
So say every birthday (phone) you have, Im going to get you a cake (Root) And every birthday that cake comes out and all your friends (Write access) surround you to celebrate. Well I never said I was bringing your friends, I just said cake. Then one year no friends come and all you have is cake. Now youre saying this isnt cake, where are my friends.. And my response is, no no no, I said I was giving you cake. Heres your cake, Its not my fault you assumed the friends always came with the cake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the explanation guys. I completely understand that root and write protection are different things. I USED to think this when Mofo was released it was the first root I had to pay for and I was also curious about this write protection thing because I had thought (when others explained root to me back when I was a noob) that root was defined by advanced control to the system (which it sounds like it is but this is a VERY loose definition) including read/write/exc acceses to the system and subsystems. after reading for a while to learn the difference I happily bought mofo (partly assuming more dev work will maybe unlock bl or wp) But now people in this thread (and many others) now know
Can we stick to one thread!
I've had the note8 for about 3 months-ish. It's been great, only thing is I am getting SICK of having no control over which apps are doing what in background, (stock stuff spying/sending data home etc).
I was just pushed the oreo update from my carrier and it looks like its slightly slower now, guess this is all part of the planned obsolescence to get us to buy new phones.
The questions for the experts here :
-How difficult/dangerous is it to root note8 with knox, and have it come out successful?
-How do you possibly find a trustworthy rom that wont be loaded with viruses/rootkits
-Is there a gold standard guide out there for security on rooted note8's (how to setup firewalls/ iptables. with knox in the equation)
I dont want to overload this post with stuff when I'm the one holding my hat out here for advice. I've googled for weeks, can't seem to find any straight answer. No one seems to have any solid hands on experience with this (rooting/knox/security). I just know that the note8 with all the knox parts makes it different from any other phone ive had.
THANK YOU.
I suppose I should also mention that I am looking for something that will be the most secure/offer the most flexibility in maintaining privacy.
Ideally I would love something that just has a homescreen that shows all network data events/history. Probably doesnt exist, but thats my mindset about all this.
If you want security and the ability to stop stuff running in the background (slowing down your phone and using your battery), you don't want to root.
Just install one of these apps:
1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pdp.singleplay
or
2. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kunkunsoft.packagedisabler
They allow you to disable apps you don't want or use (e.g. facebook). I use the first one. I know they are paid apps but they are worth the money.
http:// said:
If you want security and the ability to stop stuff running in the background (slowing down your phone and using your battery), you don't want to root.
Just install one of these apps:
1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pdp.singleplay
or
2. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kunkunsoft.packagedisabler
They allow you to disable apps you don't want or use (e.g. facebook). I use the first one. I know they are paid apps but they are worth the money.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, I have heard of those. But I guess whenever I see a solution that involves me paying some person I dont know for them to put code on my phone, I always prefer to go the learn it myself route. Which is why I guess I am asking for some advice on rooting, I can handle doing it myself, I'm not entirely un-tech savvy. Just had a few general questions about rom/knox issues.
Also thank you!
cricketpaddleinmyhand said:
-How difficult/dangerous is it to root note8 with knox, and have it come out successful?
-How do you possibly find a trustworthy rom that wont be loaded with viruses/rootkits
-Is there a gold standard guide out there for security on rooted note8's (how to setup firewalls/ iptables. with knox in the equation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty straightforward to root, just read through the root threads and make sure you're familiar with all the steps.
I have never downloaded a rom from here with viruses and rootkits. Look at user feedback and install a virus scanner on your phone if concerned. For official firmware, try SamFirm or Sammobile.
You can use apps like AFWall+ from the Play Store but root is required for it to work. I don't know what you mean by "with Knox in the equation" though. Knox is something else entirely.
sefrcoko said:
It's pretty straightforward to root, just read through the root threads and make sure you're familiar with all the steps.
I have never downloaded a rom from here with viruses and rootkits. Look at user feedback and install a virus scanner on your phone if concerned. For official firmware, try SamFirm or Sammobile.
You can use apps like AFWall+ from the Play Store but root is required for it to work. I don't know what you mean by "with Knox in the equation" though. It's something else entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, pretty familiar with finding roms/installing them (still weary of anything free, rootkits can be hidden anywhere these days). Only reason I specifically made a thread this time around is due to the knox security portion of the note8. I've heard it can complicate things when rooting note8, and I was unable to find much info from people on it (especially with recent version releases)
but thank you!
cricketpaddleinmyhand said:
Yep, pretty familiar with finding roms/installing them (still weary of anything free, rootkits can be hidden anywhere these days). Only reason I specifically made a thread this time around is due to the knox security portion of the note8. I've heard it can complicate things when rooting note8, and I was unable to find much info from people on it (especially with recent version releases)
but thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What model do you have? Rooting on Exynos with custom recovery will trip Knox counter and stop samsung pay/secure pass from working ever again. Most Snapdragon models have locked bootloaders though, and their root method doesn't affect Knox if I recall correctly (see SamFail thread though for that last one).
cricketpaddleinmyhand said:
Yea, I have heard of those. But I guess whenever I see a solution that involves me paying some person I dont know for them to put code on my phone, I always prefer to go the learn it myself route. Which is why I guess I am asking for some advice on rooting, I can handle doing it myself, I'm not entirely un-tech savvy. Just had a few general questions about rom/knox issues.
Also thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do what you're happy doing.
Just one thing. Your logic is fatally flawed. You say you won't pay someone to provide a solution unless you have researched it first but you will however sacrifice security by rooting for free but you haven't researched it.
Your questions are all answered in this forum, you just need to use the search function. No need to create another 'how do I root and what are the advantages/disadvantages' thread.
Good luck.
http:// said:
Do what you're happy doing.
Just one thing. Your logic is fatally flawed. You say you won't pay someone to provide a solution unless you have researched it first but you will however sacrifice security by rooting for free but you haven't researched it.
Your questions are all answered in this forum, you just need to use the search function. No need to create another 'how do I root and what are the advantages/disadvantages' thread.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply, however practice makes perfect - can't get good at anything until you try.
As for searching this forum, maybe I should have been more specific when i said I googled. That meant I searched everywhere I knew of (including here) for any specific knox related rooting guides for the current note8 OS release. And since it just rolled out few days prior, I haven't found many first hand accounts/spoken to anyone who has attempted it. I will also add that i was hoping to hear some opinions about something that is specifically tailored to security/privacy. I guess I thought that was unique enough/not previously posted to warrant my own thread. But as you stated, perhaps my thinking is flawed.
Thank you!
The thing is, if you are so concerned about security issues, do not use ANY google related service/software, there you voluntarily give tons of pieces of info, but that includes amdroid itself, as it relies on google play services, as I see it, your best option for not having anything suspicious installed in your device is a plain feature phone, and a computer with the best protection you can buy/get
winol said:
The thing is, if you are so concerned about security issues, do not use ANY google related service/software, there you voluntarily give tons of pieces of info, but that includes amdroid itself, as it relies on google play services, as I see it, your best option for not having anything suspicious installed in your device is a plain feature phone, and a computer with the best protection you can buy/get
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you couldn't be more right about that.
Unfortunately google and my work have not fully separated and probably wont anytime soon. Main reason i was wanting to root was to have some sort of control over my firewall/setup some iptables to limit the amount of trackers/bugs phoning home.
Rooting is the exact opposite to safety, that is why unbranded/generic/fake/etc are sold with root access out of the box, no restrictions whatsoever for anything
cricketpaddleinmyhand said:
Thanks for your reply, however practice makes perfect - can't get good at anything until you try.
As for searching this forum, maybe I should have been more specific when i said I googled. That meant I searched everywhere I knew of (including here) for any specific knox related rooting guides for the current note8 OS release. And since it just rolled out few days prior, I haven't found many first hand accounts/spoken to anyone who has attempted it. I will also add that i was hoping to hear some opinions about something that is specifically tailored to security/privacy. I guess I thought that was unique enough/not previously posted to warrant my own thread. But as you stated, perhaps my thinking is flawed.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you mean by "Knox-related rooting guides". That may be part of the confusion and why you can't find what you're looking for. You root the phone/OS, not Knox.
sefrcoko said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "Knox-related rooting guides". That may be part of the confusion and why you can't find what you're looking for. You root the phone/OS, not Knox.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, it is confusing I know. Apparently I have heard that the knox feature can cause issues , especially if you already updated .
Botched this thread pretty good lmao, everyone is totally lost. (me included)
meh, don worry about it. ill just let the thread hang, see if anyone can see what im trying to explain somewhat terribly
winol said:
Rooting is the exact opposite to safety
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I would somewhat agree with you there. But, I guess Im just sick of having no way to set my own firewall rules/ have control over my ports.
So I'm surprised this isn't Priority One across the board for development with Android.
Now that it looks like John's gone, I'm actually shocked that no one is tried to take over or step forward to try and come up with an alternative. This should be all hands on deck Priority One as not having root is far sh1tt1er than having it. Maybe I just I'm not up to the newest dev news. Does anyone have any information on possible development about that?
The vvb2060 Alpha builds are still getting updated, and as that had been a trusted collaborator with John, that seems to be the current path for continued development.
Why does everyone assume that development of Magisk has stopped? Until we hear anything from John there's zero need for "fear mongering" and speculation...
FUD is what keeps forums running
Theraze said:
The vvb2060 Alpha builds are still getting updated, and as that had been a trusted collaborator with John, that seems to be the current path for continued development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I've been running the alpha build since earlyJune. However I worry/sneaking suspicion and inclination that his intention or competency level is to tweak existing technology rather than flat out create compatibility for Android 12 for example. These are my fears.
Burt Squirtz said:
Yes I've been running the alpha build since earlyJune. However I worry/sneaking suspicion and inclination that his intention or competency level is to tweak existing technology rather than flat out create compatibility for Android 12 for example. These are my fears.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to step back, take a chill pill, and unclench
73sydney said:
You need to step back, take a chill pill, and unclench
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
trying to look cool? Not sure why you bothered to type this - as absolutely nothing in my post would indicate that I'm not calm.
Surprised more people are asking this question about having root in the future.
Well.
It is better to think ahead but it may happen that demand will create supply.
It is basic market rule.
I hope & pray that current Magisk will continue to work even if site where it checks updates and modules disappears.
Burt Squirtz said:
trying to look cool? Not sure why you bothered to type this - as absolutely nothing in my post would indicate that I'm not calm.
Surprised more people are asking this question about having root in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the FUD was boring a month ago
The only prospecting you should be doing should involve a gold pan
p.s. My default setting is humour, sometimes people get it, some dont, the clue would have been the 2 smilies i put in to try and make certain it was taken that way
p.p.s. Casting doubt on someones abilities (vvb2060) isnt cool, just saying, they guy is working largely on his own to add features/fixes from the original Magisk repo issues, so maybe cut him some slack? or help out?
i really like vvb2060 magisk lite approach
i hop he adds control to it throw a terminate
Didgeridoohan said:
Why does everyone assume that development of Magisk has stopped? Until we hear anything from John there's zero need for "fear mongering" and speculation...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in May, topjohnwu had already confirmed that Google is forbidding him from working on Magisk.
misterlink said:
Back in May, topjohnwu had already confirmed that Google is forbidding him from working on Magisk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since that screenshot is taken out of context from a longer conversation, that was private and not shared by John himself, it doesn't show the whole truth.
My statement still stands: wait until we hear anything official from John...
Game Over.
State of Magisk: 2021
Ever since my employment at Google, crazy speculations has been spreading like wild fire all over the Internet. The out-of-context private…
topjohnwu.medium.com
Game over? I think we read that text and came to two very different conclusions...
It's far from game over.
So as far i understand he is allowed to continue working on magisk but is not allowed to do any work on magisk hide or any hide module he claims that is just 5% of the work so if he does magisk and someone else adds magisk hide function it is all good right ?
mstrnemo said:
So as far i understand he is allowed to continue working on magisk but is not allowed to do any work on magisk hide or any hide module he claims that is just 5% of the work so if he does magisk and someone else adds magisk hide function it is all good right ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sounds simple enough, but Magisk without MagiskHide will be relatively useless since most apps that aren't a web browser will refuse to run because they detect root and/or an unlocked bootloader. This is the core problem that Magisk solves. The rest of the Magisk modules are nice to haves.
Until the apps try to detect modifications to themselves rather than simply seeing if there is a possibility of modification they are not doing anything for security but instead further locking users into their ecosystem.
l7777 said:
This sounds simple enough, but Magisk without MagiskHide will be relatively useless since most apps that aren't a web browser will refuse to run because they detect root and/or an unlocked bootloader. This is the core problem that Magisk solves. The rest of the Magisk modules are nice to haves.
Until the apps try to detect modifications to themselves rather than simply seeing if there is a possibility of modification they are not doing anything for security but instead further locking users into their ecosystem.
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Click to collapse
I would imagen magisk would not be useless as i would assume magisk and a hide module would be in development in paralell to each other so magisk by the creator and hide by other developer who is kind innof to help out so yeah.
unless people ditch magisk alltogether and fork it and do it difrently who knows
i just read the article about this on the xda homepage and read through the comments people seem to be freaking out and spell doom to custom roms and everything about it pretty funny though but i geuss the signs are on the wall....
mstrnemo said:
I would imagen magisk would not be useless as i would assume magisk and a hide module would be in development in paralell to each other so magisk by the creator and hide by other developer who is kind innof to help out so yeah.
unless people ditch magisk alltogether and fork it and do it difrently who knows
i just read the article about this on the xda homepage and read through the comments people seem to be freaking out and spell doom to custom roms and everything about it pretty funny though but i geuss the signs are on the wall....
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Ok, useless might have been too strong. If a hide module is developed and maintained then things will largely stay the same. That said, until that materializes, it is the end of Magisk as we know it. Anyone who claims that nothing will change is going to give rise to a lot of disappointment. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of talented developers and one could very likey pick up where TJW leaves off but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.
IMO rather than fight with the our small community, Google/Android should provide us a way to self sign our devices and absolve themselves of any responsibility to keep our devices "secure".
l7777 said:
Ok, useless might have been too strong. If a hide module is developed and maintained then things will largely stay the same. That said, until that materializes, it is the end of Magisk as we know it. Anyone who claims that nothing will change is going to give rise to a lot of disappointment. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of talented developers and one could very likey pick up where TJW leaves off but I certainly wouldn't bet on it.
IMO rather than fight with the our small community, Google/Android should provide us a way to self sign our devices and absolve themselves of any responsibility to keep our devices "secure".
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Yeah agree on your first part
now about that second part..
never going to happen why ? because what do you think we are to those companys? what do you think they would call us people who dont buy a new phone every year and keep older phones working for a couple years with the latest software huh ? we cost them money it is in their best interest that none of all this works and or is capable because if it wasnt everyone here would have to get a new phone ergo bringing in the bacon for those said companys...
I wish we could send out a message a reqeust to all the developers on this site and be like oke guys lets ditch android it is not worth the ffort anymore lets get together all of us and work on alternitives of wich we have 2
ubuntu touch linux os for phones (there are otheres but noone as far developt as this one) also it is stil not entirely their yet but it is very close.
sailfish wel basicly also linux this is next best thing to android it is based on nokia/intel meego project it is like i said linux based and open source this is what the developers should work on it is just rough araund the edges but works great one downside while it is opensource the ability to run android apps is properity software so developers would have to come with their own thing forexample maybe try and get wine to work on sailfish so u can use android apps as normal phone.
what do you think? developers unite in a avengers style and the ones who cant do code like myself help by donating ?
mstrnemo said:
Yeah agree on your first part
now about that second part..
never going to happen why ? because what do you think we are to those companys? what do you think they would call us people who dont buy a new phone every year and keep older phones working for a couple years with the latest software huh ? we cost them money it is in their best interest that none of all this works and or is capable because if it wasnt everyone here would have to get a new phone ergo bringing in the bacon for those said companys...
I wish we could send out a message a reqeust to all the developers on this site and be like oke guys lets ditch android it is not worth the ffort anymore lets get together all of us and work on alternitives of wich we have 2
ubuntu touch linux os for phones (there are otheres but noone as far developt as this one) also it is stil not entirely their yet but it is very close.
sailfish wel basicly also linux this is next best thing to android it is based on nokia/intel meego project it is like i said linux based and open source this is what the developers should work on it is just rough araund the edges but works great one downside while it is opensource the ability to run android apps is properity software so developers would have to come with their own thing forexample maybe try and get wine to work on sailfish so u can use android apps as normal phone.
what do you think? developers unite in a avengers style and the ones who cant do code like myself help by donating ?
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Oh I would never expect #2 to happen either, that is why it's only my opinion.
A phone OS not managed by a large corporation would be great, but it couldn't survive without the app stores of the large corporations. That is what they are making money off of, not the devices. I think most of us already realize that so I'm just stating the obvious.