Database Develop

Came across something strange today.....

Few things I want to get straight, I in no way shape or form tampered with this device. I am an AT&T employee and came across this while setting a customer up with his new S5. This is how it came brand new sealed out of the box. Also, I understand the photo is blurry. This is due to the fact that the screen did not stay up long. I snapped as fast as I could before I had to take it back because it was actually extremely buggy and kept freezing. Just felt the need to to share with the guys. Looks like some are being missed in the lock down lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

bnicsk8guy said:
Few things I want to get straight, I in no way shape or form tampered with this device. I am an AT&T employee and came across this while setting a customer up with his new S5. This is how it came brand new sealed out of the box. Also, I understand the photo is blurry. This is due to the fact that the screen did not stay up long. I snapped as fast as I could before I had to take it back because it was actually extremely buggy and kept freezing. Just felt the need to to share with the guys. Looks like some are being missed in the lock down lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
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Can you tell what software version its running?

That doesn't mean the bootloader is unlocked. It simply means that the devices scanning utility (SysScope it was called on the S4) detected a change to a file. In the case of the phone you had, it sounds like it was probably do to a faulty board or failing software in a bad unit. The S4s are known to show "custom" for absolutely no reason at all or because of something on the SD card. It usually reverted back to official after a couple of reboots. I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this, but how can you be an AT&T employee and not know this? Like I said, this question is not a personal attack, but I am wondering if AT&T gives any training on how these devices work in real life and not just on the shelf. Either way, I promise you the bootloader is still locked on that device. The unlocked symbol and custom have nothing at all to do with the bootloader.

Mine shows that also
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

pingfl00d said:
Mine shows that also
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Me too. Still not exactly sure what it means unless it's the developer options being enabled.
Edit: Just checked and it's not the developer options...and mine doesn't have the unlock icon anymore actually. I think scott14719 is probably right.

nizbot said:
Me too. Still not exactly sure what it means unless it's the developer options being enabled.
Edit: Just checked and it's not the developer options...and mine doesn't have the unlock icon anymore actually. I think scott14719 is probably right.
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I'm right. If you want more information about it you can search the AT&T S4 forum for relevant threads. There really is a lot of information about it that might answer a lot of potential questions.

scott14719 said:
That doesn't mean the bootloader is unlocked. It simply means that the devices scanning utility (SysScope it was called on the S4) detected a change to a file. In the case of the phone you had, it sounds like it was probably do to a faulty board or failing software in a bad unit. The S4s are known to show "custom" for absolutely no reason at all or because of something on the SD card. It usually reverted back to official after a couple of reboots. I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this, but how can you be an AT&T employee and not know this? Like I said, this question is not a personal attack, but I am wondering if AT&T gives any training on how these devices work in real life and not just on the shelf. Either way, I promise you the bootloader is still locked on that device. The unlocked symbol and custom have nothing at all to do with the bootloader.
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AT&T provides training that is optional for new devices, but there is an article released with relevant information to sell the phone. They do not train employees to check bootloaders, for root, for knox warranty, etc. None of my coworkers know what a bootloader is or what it means to be locked or unlocked. Edit: No training provided by AT&T mentions root, jailbreak, bootloaders, etc etc.
To be on topic, after I switched to ART, the Custom unlocked pad came up, when I switched back to Dalvik, the Custom unlocked padlock went away.

I am also an AT&T COR store employee and none of my coworkers know about that kinda stuff. Not a lick of training is given on that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I'll try not to take offense to that....lol. No AT&T does no training for these things. And to be honest with you I am usually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. I have been out of the Samsung scene for a while ( Due to me using my more developer friendly Nexus 5 or my new HTC One M8) so I am now unfamiliar with how these devices handle certain things. I have yet to do anything like change my runtime on the device do to the fact that it only made minor performance changes to my Nexus 5. If I would have I probably would have gotten the same boot screen and then eventually thought nothing of it. Just had a little moment of excitement while on the job lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

bnicsk8guy said:
I'll try not to take offense to that....lol. No AT&T does no training for these things. And to be honest with you I am usually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. I have been out of the Samsung scene for a while ( Due to me using my more developer friendly Nexus 5 or my new HTC One M8) so I am now unfamiliar with how these devices handle certain things. I have yet to do anything like change my runtime on the device do to the fact that it only made minor performance changes to my Nexus 5. If I would have I probably would have gotten the same boot screen and then eventually thought nothing of it. Just had a little moment of excitement while on the job lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
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Definitely no offence intended. I just wish AT&T, Bestbuys, etc... would do a better job of training the people that they expect to sell these devices. Most people don't know the everyday quirks of most devices unless they are given an oppertunity to learn about them.

scott14719 said:
Definitely no offence intended. I just wish AT&T, Bestbuys, etc... would do a better job of training the people that they expect to sell these devices. Most people don't know the everyday quirks of most devices unless they are given an oppertunity to learn about them.
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Careful what you wish for!! Last thing I need is someone checking whether my Knox has been tripped or my bootloader unlocked when I do a return :laugh:

As AT&T employees you better get ahold of some higher ups, and let them know they are going to lose lots of customers due to the lock down on their bootloaders of their devices. Many people are ready to switch.

pcidiot said:
As AT&T employees you better get ahold of some higher ups, and let them know they are going to lose lots of customers due to the lock down on their bootloaders of their devices. Many people are ready to switch.
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they don't care and anything this guy says will most likely anything this guy says will be ignored

cyberace1985 said:
they don't care and anything this guy says will most likely anything this guy says will be ignored
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Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.

pcidiot said:
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
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But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.

cyberace1985 said:
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
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Your right partially but grand scheme of things = all of their devices that are locked not just s5's. I am just saying that, they are always seeming to pull more customers in with new deals so gaining customers is important to them. So not losing customers should also be important in the same aspect no matter what the percentage is. If they don't care then shame on them.

pcidiot said:
Your right partially but grand scheme of things = all of their devices that are locked not just s5's. I am just saying that, they are always seeming to pull more customers in with new deals so gaining customers is important to them. So not losing customers should also be important in the same aspect no matter what the percentage is. If they don't care then shame on them.
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They would love to get everyone 100% satisfied but realistically its impossible so they shoot for the highest number of satisfied people

pcidiot said:
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
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No they won't. Who are they going to switch to? Tmobile? Tmobile will be locking down their bootloader as soon as they get the chance. Only reason why they haven't already is because they need as many customers as they can get. Same reason they kept downloader booster...even though they can't afford to keep it. Not to mention, the average user doesn't give a crap about bootloaders or download boosters.

I got the custom message after applying ART.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

cyberace1985 said:
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
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You are right I seen an older couple at the att store buying both s5's and it looked like they did not know anything about root. Etc. They are buying the device because of its features and camera. Not saying older people don't mess with the bootloader or anything.
MOTO X SLAPPED

Switching from the S5...

Ok so..
Its been about 12 days since I have had this phone. I thought I could be patient enough with it to maybe wait for a root (if developers are even still working on it.)
Turns out I am not so patient.. I would rather switch to a company like HTC who is kind enough to give tools to their customers who want the option to do what they want with their own ****ing cell phone that they purchased. :highfive:
Anyway..
My question is: Is anyone familiar with the return policy? I am pretty sure that it is 14 days and I can trade it back in hopefully for an M8, but if someone that has experience or knowledge with this can shed some more light I would be very grateful.
Second question would be do you guys think the HTC One M8 is the best option for me right now? Ill be going through at&t and I want to be able to root and flash roms. Preferably some of the more popular ones like AOKP or Pac-Man etc..

PunchLick said:
Ok so..
Its been about 12 days since I have had this phone. I thought I could be patient enough with it to maybe wait for a root (if developers are even still working on it.)
Turns out I am not so patient.. I would rather switch to a company like HTC who is kind enough to give tools to their customers who want the option to do what they want with their own ****ing cell phone that they purchased. :highfive:
Anyway..
My question is: Is anyone familiar with the return policy? I am pretty sure that it is 14 days and I can trade it back in hopefully for an M8, but if someone that has experience or knowledge with this can shed some more light I would be very grateful.
Second question would be do you guys think the HTC One M8 is the best option for me right now? Ill be going through at&t and I want to be able to root and flash roms. Preferably some of the more popular ones like AOKP or Pac-Man etc..
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just go do it. why do you need to ask about it when you already know the terms. simply call them or go to the store.

Later.

I am not sure about the terms, that's why I posted on these forums asking. That's why I said "I'm pretty sure" and asked if someone who knew for sure could give me more details. :good:

PunchLick said:
I am not sure about the terms, that's why I posted on these forums asking. That's why I said "I'm pretty sure" and asked if someone who knew for sure could give me more details. :good:
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what's the point of posting anything here. whats the point of even sharing your thoughts of switching. if you made your decision, just go and do it. why ask us when you can ask AT&T? just leave man

Because I bought it on launch day and I am not sure how many days you get before you can return the phone. A lot of people are switching too or getting the TMO version, so I think a topic like this could become helpful to others as well.
Not sure why you are being rude, if you aren't going to help or say anything worth reading just stop typing. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings in showing that I think owning a locked down device isn't for me anymore.. it's still a great phone. I just thought I would be more patient or enjoy stock more, but I was wrong.

PunchLick said:
I am not sure about the terms, that's why I posted on these forums asking. That's why I said "I'm pretty sure" and asked if someone who knew for sure could give me more details. :good:
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14 days from purchase to return and a $35 restocking fee are basically the terms.
Personally, I wouldn't switch. I think the S5 is a superior device even without root (for now). but you gotta do what's best for you. Good luck.

peaster3 said:
14 days from purchase to return and a $35 restocking fee are basically the terms.
Personally, I wouldn't switch. I think the S5 is a superior device even without root (for now). but you gotta do what's best for you. Good luck.
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Thank you for a real reply and for the information, its really appreciated.
I think the S5 is a superior device too, but I really need root for certain apps. Not to mention flashing roms can be pretty fun.
Also sooo much bloat I just want to remove, not a big deal, but prefer a clean device.

Pretty sure mine will be going back in the next few days as well. I love the camera and the water resistance is great, but for the price, with the ehh battery life I've been getting and some annoying software stuff, it can't do anything that my international Note II can't.
In the future if/when someone can find an exploit and get root, I would definitely give it another shot.

hlb3 said:
Pretty sure mine will be going back in the next few days as well. I love the camera and the water resistance is great, but for the price, with the ehh battery life I've been getting and some annoying software stuff, it can't do anything that my international Note II can't.
In the future if/when someone can find an exploit and get root, I would definitely give it another shot.
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Yea I completely agree. The cons just outweigh the pros for me personally in this situation!

The bloat you can disable until root comes out
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Daxxer2007 said:
The bloat you can disable since root won't come out
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Ftfy

I'm enjoying all these people giving up its really quite amusing. I had a backflip and an atrix your puny 12 day wait has nothing on the wait for those phones to have root.

cyberace1985 said:
I'm enjoying all these people giving up its really quite amusing. I had a backflip and an atrix your puny 12 day wait has nothing on the wait for those phones to have root.
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Well the reason for the rush is I can return it for something that already has root and more development. I'd rather get more enjoyment now rather than hope and wait. Although if the return policy stated like 2 months or something, I'd honestly probably still wait those 2 months because I do enjoy this phone.
It's also the principal of the situation too though. I'm not ALL FOR companies that sell overpriced phones that, when bought, are just so locked down that i don't even feel like it's actually fully mine.

I've got a week to decide, I may stop in to have a look at the competition.

I've been seeing a lot of people posting that they aren't getting that great of battery life. I'm getting about 36 hours uptime with about 6 hours screen. Is that better or worse than what you guys are seeing? TIA.
Sent from my SVF14N16CXS using Tapatalk

Josborne6 said:
I've been seeing a lot of people posting that they aren't getting that great of battery life. I'm getting about 36 hours uptime with about 6 hours screen. Is that better or worse than what you guys are seeing? TIA.
Sent from my SVF14N16CXS using Tapatalk
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There only seems to be a handful complaining, even on other forums people are getting crazy good battery life. Heck I can have on screen time of 4-5+ hours, tons of email, text, phone calls etc, all sync is on, gps is on etc.... and still have plenty life left at the end of the day, actually as I type this in similar situation I have 22% life left and been off the charger for 33 hours, and even browsing I still have 4 tabs open. First phone where the thought of not having enough battery doesn't even occur to me, going to be nice on trips lol.
Far as the OP, do what you have to do, though I don't know why you'd think root would've been available by now on this phone, this isn't the old days where people could crack same day. I liked the M8 but couldn't put up with the camera and bulkiness plus no water proofing.

I have the M8. If you like flashing and customizing it is a no brainer. I myself am running stock and still enjoy the device.
My wife has a S5. It's pretty and white and shimmers like nail polish. Perfect phone for a beautiful girl.
Also as far as the discussion of superiority of either device. It's an opinionated one. Each excels at their own intended goals.
If the camera of the M8 is scaring you, just ask yourself . " will I be on assignment for national geographic where I will need to take epic photos on the go?"
If you answered no, then this camera should be good enough for your personal use.
It seems like you're just asking for that little push for you to make the trade.
I am giving you that "push". Everything will be okay in HTC land....be free...
Oh yeah. Have fun with the raised speaker grills. The gamble on receiving two variations of the LCD screen and ... Yeah that's about it.
HTC UltimEight ?

It really depends on where you bought the device. Typical return policy would be 14 days. Some vendors do not charge a restocking fees on returns but "I heard" AT&T can charge you. This was forwarded to me from the sales rep. I got my S5 at Target and returned it. I was not charged with a restocking fee by them or At&t that I am aware of.
I got myself the M8 since I wanted root.

Jooosty said:
I have the M8. If you like flashing and customizing it is a no brainer. I myself am running stock and still enjoy the device.
My wife has a S5. It's pretty and white and shimmers like nail polish. Perfect phone for a beautiful girl.
Also as far as the discussion of superiority of either device. It's an opinionated one. Each excels at their own intended goals.
If the camera of the M8 is scaring you, just ask yourself . " will I be on assignment for national geographic where I will need to take epic photos on the go?"
If you answered no, then this camera should be good enough for your personal use.
It seems like you're just asking for that little push for you to make the trade.
I am giving you that "push". Everything will be okay in HTC land....be free...
Oh yeah. Have fun with the raised speaker grills. The gamble on receiving two variations of the LCD screen and ... Yeah that's about it.
HTC UltimEight ?
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I have both, a gunmetal grey m8 and shimmery white tmo s5 sim unlocked for ATT, The m8 is great if you like to mod/customize, you can run Sense, GPE, or AOSP (cm is already being worked on)...The s5 (ATT) obviously is locked down....both phones are very nice it just depends if you need the ability to customize.

[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.

I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
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I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
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T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.

Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.

cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
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Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.

I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.

What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.

AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.

rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
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Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
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I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!

I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.

After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..

Root Concerns

I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we NEED the bootloader unlocked in order to achieve root it just makes it a hell of a lot easier. I believe the Note 3 on certain carriers still has the bootloader locked but someone was able to find a vulnerability and used that to get root. But I do share your concern as many carriers are offering upgrades after a year and most developers and obviously users get new devices with their upgrade.

Correct, we don't need an unlock bootloader to have root, but, Kitkat update has patch all the vulnerabilities that were use in previous devices like the S4 and Note 3, currently all Note3 shipped with KitKat are stock with no root because of that. I personally think that root will not be achieved on the S5 (Verizon and AT&T), the Note 3 has been on the market way longer than the S5 and the bootloader still locked and root is thing of the past if the Device was shipped with KK from factory.
Besides most of the Devs are researchers and get better recognition/$$$ by giving the exploits to manufactures instead of making it public. Other Devs just like to make it for Fun, but with the locked bootloader there is not much fun but a lot of work instead, and since no everybody that pledges actually pays is not worth it for them to actually work on getting root for a device you can get unlocked on other networks (ex. T-Mo). If all S5 were to be shipped with a locked bootloader, you would had root by now.

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.

I'm really regretting my purchase of the S5 without having root, and to hear that it may never come is really concerning.

Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?

The carriers are getting work and ideas from us, then adding those features to the phones. Then locking them up (Bootloaders, No Root) because - Like Kenny says, they want to be more secure for corporations. Some people use root for bad things like (Not paying for apps and Xposed modules blocking ads, and other things that they don't want us doing) I use root for LONG LASTING BATTERY LIFE and getting rid of bloatware apps running in the background I dont even use. Yes, it sucks we can't do the things we use to but, they have made it so we can Turn Off apps, Long Lasting battery with the Ultra Power Save feature, etc......(Things we did with root are now coming on the phone >Stole those ideas from us<
EDIT: LETS GO KINGO, YOU CAN DO IT !!!!!! Maybe soon Kingo can produce a root option. That would be awesome. I'm not leaving At&t, been there for 18 years. Great coverage and customer service has been awesome to me !!!

Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

LoopingCreeper said:
Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what your mean. Freedom can be used to get in app purchaces for free. That is kinda getting apps for free and it requires root.
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

For me, ans more of a power user, the Root abilities were to get a smooother better battery life custom solution. I used Adaway and some apps for better performance. Other than that, root didnt mean much to me. I do miss the rebel aspect of it and that alone rather makes me wish I had bought the HTC M8 instead of the S5 last week.
Best of luck to the Devs that find us a root or AT&T to provide unlocking.

I'm with you guys. I'm just out to up my battery life, remove ads (admittedly. Can you blame me?), and have a few hardware changes, like reassigning buttons, switching music with my volume keys and such.
Biggest want? Titanium backup. I relied on that app more than I'd like to admit, as well as TWRP or ClockWork (depending on the phone/ROM I was using at the time).
It's just nice to be free with something I bought full price, SO I COULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT I WANTED WITH IT.
Either way, We'll see what happens. All I want is root permissions.
Here's a curious thought, though. The AT&T S4 isn't rooted, but they have a workaround (loki mod). Anyone know if something like that is in the works for us?

I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.

I'm personally getting ready to purchase another device, I love my GS5 even tho it isn't rooted but I'm just not liking the size of it. I got it for $10 with my team member discount but I think I'm going to either get a T-Mobile one or European S5. Idk I want to stay with Samsung but this whole locked phone thing is discouraging.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the only reason I kept and probably will keep my Nexus 5...

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen maybe one or two times since I've been a member of XDA where a bounty worked achieve root or an unlocked bootloader. Honestly, I doubt many of the devs who work on that type of stuff bought an AT&T S5. If it was me, I would have gone T-Mobile or International, as I'm sure most have.
Also, as someone said above, not everyone pays their pledges. The longer a bounty lasts, the bigger chance people who have pledged early have moved on or are not following anymore. I'm willing to bet that if a bounty was close to 2K, the most a dev could hope for is maybe $500, if their lucky. That's still quite a bit of money, but no where near what was pledged. Past experiences dictate present actions.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Skizzy034 said:
The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.

KennyG123 said:
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks

Colerunn said:
Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MetroPCS S5 for $649+ $30 unlock code from cellunlocker-dot-net and you have a wide open west device ready for custom recovery/roms, the works. Also will be carrier unlocked and completely unbranded. Radio has all the LTE bands for TMO and ATT, LTE works. Was using Alliance Rom at the time.
I did sell mine and picked up an M8. Just prefer the feel in hand, 32GB (what was SEC thinking 16GB on a top tier device!) and of course the IPS LCD just looks better to my old, tired eyes than the SuperAMOLED+. Of course everyone's preferences are different.
If you're a night owl and prefer full darkness viewing the AMOLED displays can't be beat. Using LUX I was able to turn down the brightness to just about nothing and the contrast is still outstanding. LCDs (of course) wash out since they do have finite limits of contrast at low levels...
But in normal environments, wow, the IPS display looks spectacular...
In any case, expecting root on an ATT device these days is probably going to lead to major disappointment. Personally, I'd rather use an iOS device than a locked bootloader device (S4/S5).
When you're used to having the freedom of root and can no longer do the things you get used to it's like a punishment, having virtual shackles around your feet and expected to run a 10K on a day with 80 degree dewpoints. Oh yes and with a family of hungry black bears right behind you...

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really needed if it is just as locked down and basically same hardware will see how it goes.

[Q] What am I getting myself into... Input requested.

I've been out of the Android game for a while now, my last device was a 1st gen Motorola Droid, Android 1.6. I'm coming back because I like the granular access the environment provides and I want the ability to tighten controls on my privacy, including UFED/XRY protection, and future IMSI detection/protection. Android just feels more relevant now than it did a few years back.
The iPhone spoiled me in terms of build quality and finish; I like metal, I like glass and I dislike plastic immensely... That said, the only two phones that look at all interesting are the M9 and the S6 Edge... I've preordered a Gold S6 Edge that will ship in a few weeks time. Between the two, in my eyes, there's really no comparison... I like how uncluttered touchwiz looks; I dislike Sense very much. The S6 screen blows the M9 out of the water, basically I'm just very enamored with the phone, the M9 almost completely bores me... I don't care about boom sound. At all.
I should mention I've been on Verizon for about a decade.
That said. I've been reading about older models (S4, S5, Note) trying to get a handle on the development situation and it doesn't look promising. I'm confident the S6 will be rooted, I know not everyone is, but I'm concerned that Samsung's bootloader and Exynos architecture are going to complicate the hell out of modding this phone.
I don't NEED custom ROM's (though I would love CM12) but I do need root. Running xposed/xprivacy, AFWall+ and other such apps demand it. So what's the general opinion? I don't have a feel for the community or the history anymore and that's why I'm asking... Are these concerns warranted or does probability say we'll move past them and the S6 will be a fine choice... Input welcomed.

I wouldn't buy it expecting root any time soon (maybe not at all?).
I'll give the same advice I always give to someone that says they 'need root'...
Never buy a phone until AFTER root had been discovered/released. Period.
Phones are getting harder and harder to root, especially on devices with locked boot loaders.

I would agree with the previous poster...if root is a must I would tread with caution. The Samsung Note 4 has about $40,000 in combined bounties available for root & for not tripping KNOX, neither has been achieved yet......see thread linked below.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4-verizon/general/bounty-verizon-note-4-root-whos-t2916685

I thought they already achieved root in the Samsung S6 edge forum. Not Verizon, but the general s6 edge forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3056631
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

V-Ty said:
I thought they already achieved root in the Samsung S6 edge forum. Not Verizon, but the general s6 edge forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3056631
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats because the international variant does not have a locked bootloader.
Sent from my SM-G925V using XDA Free mobile app

Right! I know our bootloader will never be unlocked but I think we will achieve root sooner then later. Obviously this is all guessing on my behalf but I think this phone is a popular phone and if some of the big developers buy this phone it will have a good chance of root. I know the story of the note 4 cause I just gave it to my wife and checked daily thinking it might be the day of root. But I don't think any of the top developers had a note 4. This is again not a statement of facts, just my guessing. Hopefully I'm right!
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

Honestly that was my hope as well. I figured that since the Note was more of a niche device than the S6 will be, combined with the Chainfire deal already out, that we might have something here... It sucks, I don't hop devices often, so I put a lot of effort researching them and what I might be left with is beautiful but root SOL or good to go but boring One M9.

All I'm saying is that you don't buy a phone for what it MIGHT do in the future.
If you NEED root, you buy a phone that already has it. Period.

My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...u-sim-unlock-your-phone-heres-the-fine-print/

jaseman said:
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...u-sim-unlock-your-phone-heres-the-fine-print/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's only talking about SIM unlocked devices.

jaseman said:
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand, all cellphones must have the ability to unlock the SIM (NOT the bootloader) after you have paid for the phone. Some carriers will unlock them sooner or don't lock them at all.
But the main point is, the law (according to my knowledge) does not mention "bootloader" at all.

SIM unlocking is what they seem to be talking about.

I think 40,000 got all the big devs to try the Note 4 bro, I've come to the conclusion ROOT IS DEAD. DAMN THE MAN