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Hi
I've been objectively comparing the display on the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 side by side and really question why we have 1080P screens on such small displays. Are we all so gullible we take in the marketing and believe more must be better?
Ignoring any arguments about better colors or contrast between the two phones, which have nothing to do with resolution, and that in my case the Nexus 4 looks little different from the Nexus 5 in color and contrast anyway, what about differences the extra resolution and slightly larger diagonal make?
Personally, I fail to see any differences in day to day use, even looking close up everything looks equal on both displays. Yes if I look very closely, closer than I would ever use the device in day to day use, I can just make out the pixel structure on the Nexus 4 where on the Nexus 5 I can't.
So what about the larger screen size? Well we get an extra 6mm approximately in height on the Nexus 5, the width is the same. This extra height has nothing to do with the greater resolution, but is caused by using non-square pixels on the Nexus 4. The aspect ratio of these displays should be 1.777 (1920/1080 or 1280/720 is 1.777). The Nexus 4 aspect ratio is 1.64, so was squashed vertically, the Nexus 5 is 1.78 so the correct aspect ratio. All they have done with the Nexus 5 is given it the correct aspect ratio, hence the extra 6mm in height and the resulting slightly larger diagonal. This could equally have been achieved using 1280x720.
Because we haven't really got a bigger display in the Nexus 5, just a correction of the aspect ratio (hence the width is the same on both), the screen doesn't really show any more information than the Nexus 4. As the display is now thinner compared to the Nexus 4 and due to the Nexus 5 setup, web pages with text will often wrap to the next line sooner than on the Nexus 4, so ironically with the Nexus 5 you may have less shown vertically than the Nexus 4. Sometimes other webpages will suit the taller Nexus 5 a bit better so you get a bit more in, overall though, it's swings and roundabouts.
What 1080P does provide is a faster draining battery as the back light needs to be more powerful to give the same visible brightness than a lower resolution display, and the graphics processor also needs to work much harder with all those extra pixels draining even more battery, that is never good in a phone. Wouldn't it be preferable for a 720P display that is less battery hungry and the R&D invested in better image quality rather than more pixels we can barely discern in such a small area?
So to sum up, what we have here in my opinion is just marketing. LCD phone panels are suffering the same marketing as mega pixels in cameras. Because the manufactures can provide LCD panels with ever growing pixel densities without too much extra cost, they are doing, as bigger numbers sell better and encourage us to replace perfectly good devices.
So for anyone considering the Nexus 5 to replace the Nexus 4 because they consider the larger screen will make the phone better to use for reading web pages etc, after all, the numbers of 1920x1080 compared to 1280x720 are compelling, in reality I'm not sure many people will notice a difference.
Regards
Phil
PhilipL said:
Why 1080P on a 5" LCD panel?
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Simple: because we can.
And within 2 years we'll see 4K resolutions on such small panels as well so this is just scratching the surface (no pun intended) of hand-held touch-operated display technologies.
The only thing I could practically see as useful is being able to display more content on the screen due to DPI scaling. Even still, I don't think it would be significant enough for the tradeoff of battery drain. And it is less than ideal managing a lot of content on such a small screen.
Maybe as video resolution increases, the displays will be able to offer a slight benefit with a higher resolution (beyond 1080p), however pointless it may be. Perhaps phones with video output could benefit by having a higher resolution being able to be displayed on a much larger screen? I am not sure if this is software or hardware dependent so it could be a null point.
Other than that, I suppose they are available because it is possible. As technology advances, more powerful hardware is needed to support/benefit from it and innovation and all that stuff follows leading to more advanced technology.
So if we do end up going beyond 1080p for phones, there is a chance that it will require other related resources to improve in order for it to be useful. I could see breakthroughs in battery life or efficiency being made to support whatever ridiculous and unnecessary resolution display that may be created.
Sorry if what I said irks anybody for whatever reason, just my opinion of the current situation with phones and HD displays so let's all just be happy
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
I personally think it's noticeably sharper than my Nexus 4
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Just because you can't notice a difference does not mean you can speak for everyone.
5" is the borderline between 720p and 1080p. You can definitely notice the difference at 5.3", 5.5", 5.7", 6" etc., and most of us can see, albeit barely, the difference at 5", so why not get the 1080p goodie?
There are at least 2 benefits: subpixels are much more crowded so there are smaller gaps between them making a larger % of the screen covered (it makes a big difference!), plus no matter if you actually notice the difference, sharper image and more detailed text is more relaxing for your eyes to read.
I guess we could live with a 5" 720p screen, but the good news is: whatever technology debuted some 6 months ago, the Nexus line-up will get it for cheap. So the question is not why 1080p on a 5" LCD panel... but why not?
Because the 720p is awful right now I'll see the difference in a lot of things. Like images, text, internet pages, icons.
I thought the same thing at first, but looking at the screen, it's much sharper than the Nexus 4, especially when it comes to reading. The new thing roboto font complements the resolution perfectly.
BoneXDA said:
5" is the borderline between 720p and 1080p. You can definitely notice the difference at 5.3", 5.5", 5.7", 6" etc., and most of us can see, albeit barely, the difference at 5", so why not get the 1080p goodie?
There are at least 2 benefits: subpixels are much more crowded so there are smaller gaps between them making a larger % of the screen covered (it makes a big difference!), plus no matter if you actually notice the difference, sharper image and more detailed text is more relaxing for your eyes to read.
I guess we could live with a 5" 720p screen, but the good news is: whatever technology debuted some 6 months ago, the Nexus line-up will get it for cheap. So the question is not why 1080p on a 5" LCD panel... but why not?
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The "why not", is fairly easy, battery life. As you said the difference in quality is borderline. All of those saying there is a massive difference, well science disagrees with you. What your eye can actually see is defined for the standard 20/20 vision. There is a definitely "shinny new" element, which in many does overpower the science behind what and eye can actually see. It's sort of the same argument for 4k TVs. View distance is key in both.
SykesAT said:
The "why not", is fairly easy, battery life. As you said the difference in quality is borderline. All of those saying there is a massive difference, well science disagrees with you. What your eye can actually see is defined for the standard 20/20 vision. There is a definitely "shinny new" element, which in many does overpower the science behind what and eye can actually see. It's sort of the same argument for 4k TVs. View distance is key in both.
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Experience very much shows that higher resolution screen does NOT result in higher battery drain. Relative to battery capacity, the Galaxy S4's bigger and higher res screen is far more efficient that the S3's, same goes for the HTC One to One X, LG G2 to Optimus G, and the Nexus 5 does better video playback than the Nexus 4 as well (this is the least CPU-dependant testing that tells the most about the screen). This is because like SoCs, AMOLED and LCD technology also evolved in efficiency.
BoneXDA said:
Experience very much shows that higher resolution screen does NOT result in higher battery drain. Relative to battery capacity, the Galaxy S4's bigger and higher res screen is far more efficient that the S3's, same goes for the HTC One to One X, LG G2 to Optimus G, and the Nexus 5 does better video playback than the Nexus 4 as well (this is the least CPU-dependant testing that tells the most about the screen). This is because like SoCs, AMOLED and LCD technology also evolved in efficiency.
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agreed, technology has evolved and become more efficient, but that does not address the power needs of the same gen tech when looking at 720p vs 1080p, nor viewing distances.
Hi
BoneXDA said:
5" is the borderline between 720p and 1080p. You can definitely notice the difference at 5.3", 5.5", 5.7", 6" etc., and most of us can see, albeit barely, the difference at 5", so why not get the 1080p goodie?
There are at least 2 benefits: subpixels are much more crowded so there are smaller gaps between them making a larger % of the screen covered (it makes a big difference!), plus no matter if you actually notice the difference, sharper image and more detailed text is more relaxing for your eyes to read.
I guess we could live with a 5" 720p screen, but the good news is: whatever technology debuted some 6 months ago, the Nexus line-up will get it for cheap. So the question is not why 1080p on a 5" LCD panel... but why not?
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Click to collapse
Why not get a 1080P panel, battery life perhaps and better quality 720P? The problem with all those pixels is you have loads of extra transistors and wiring on the display, all that means less of the display is being used to transmit light. If they take the same lithography, i.e. smaller transistors and wires that are required to pack in 1920x1080 to a 5" inch display to a 720P 5" panel, so no gaps and more screen area transmissible to light, it would use less power to back light than 720P displays have used before and would look better and brighter for less battery power than an equivalent 1080P display.
Of course we will get 2k displays or even 4k displays on 5" diagonals, then what will happen is what is happening to mobile phone cameras, it will come a point where they can't add any more pixels (with mobile phone cameras they are down to only measuring a few photons at at time in each pixel hence you get very noisy pictures in poor light), so the next marketing trick to sell to us will be as HTC have done with their cameras, reduce the numbers then tell us that the lower number of pixels were all along better.
By the time most people have covered the display with smudges and dust during normal day to day use, they are not going to notice the difference between a 5" display at 720p and 1080p at normal viewing distances. I've had friends fail to notice the difference between 720P and 1080P on the Nexus 7 with a 7" display let alone a 5" one. One friend actually preferred the 720P panel as he said text looked more like a good computer monitor display and was easier to read!
Don't get me wrong I like the Nexus 5, but think it would have been better with longer battery life and a brighter and better display that would have been available using the same new LCD technology but in a 720P panel. This would also give better manufacturing yields, and so reduce the price of display, with the savings going towards better calibration and consistent displays between devices. There is already a thread about poor quality control with very warm yellow displays on some Nexus 5's yet another Nexus 5 sat next to it is bright white looking completely difference. So much for the benefits of 1080P when no two phones are guaranteed to look the same.
Regards
Phil
Today's 1080 smartphone displays typically use less power overall than the last generation models with 720 displays, believe it or not. Note when I'm saying this I'm leaning more towards the actual display tech itself and not the backlight: when you account for the power requirements of the panel itself (not counting the draw from the backlight) the 1080 panel on the Nexus 5 pulls less current than the 720 on the Nexus 4 (which is more accurately 1280x768 so it's technically a bit more pixels)
The backlight remains the largest draw of current in a smartphone today in typical usage - it's only when you begin to max out the CPU+GPU at the same time will that really begin to sway favor away from the backlight itself.
If I honestly had my choice, I'd have SuperAMOLED(+) tech in every device but the issue there is a) it tends to wash out in direct sunlight (not that I can't cover the device with my hand or something and see it and b) AMOLED dies over time since the organic aspects literally just wear out.
LCDs are still pretty nice in my opinion, and they get the job done just fine, but it sure would be nice to find a way to do a proper backlight that actually get the job done without that massive power requirement that remains attached to that technology even today.
Also, 720p and 1080p are technically video formats, but people just keep right on referring to them as resolutions...
PhilipL said:
Hi
Why not get a 1080P panel, battery life perhaps and better quality 720P? The problem with all those pixels is you have loads of extra transistors and wiring on the display, all that means less of the display is being used to transmit light. If they take the same lithography, i.e. smaller transistors and wires that are required to pack in 1920x1080 to a 5" inch display to a 720P 5" panel, so no gaps and more screen area transmissible to light, it would use less power to back light than 720P displays have used before and would look better and brighter for less battery power than an equivalent 1080P display.
Of course we will get 2k displays or even 4k displays on 5" diagonals, then what will happen is what is happening to mobile phone cameras, it will come a point where they can't add any more pixels (with mobile phone cameras they are down to only measuring a few photons at at time in each pixel hence you get very noisy pictures in poor light), so the next marketing trick to sell to us will be as HTC have done with their cameras, reduce the numbers then tell us that the lower number of pixels were all along better.
By the time most people have covered the display with smudges and dust during normal day to day use, they are not going to notice the difference between a 5" display at 720p and 1080p at normal viewing distances. I've had friends fail to notice the difference between 720P and 1080P on the Nexus 7 with a 7" display let alone a 5" one. One friend actually preferred the 720P panel as he said text looked more like a good computer monitor display and was easier to read!
Don't get me wrong I like the Nexus 5, but think it would have been better with longer battery life and a brighter and better display that would have been available using the same new LCD technology but in a 720P panel. This would also give better manufacturing yields, and so reduce the price of display, with the savings going towards better calibration and consistent displays between devices. There is already a thread about poor quality control with very warm yellow displays on some Nexus 5's yet another Nexus 5 sat next to it is bright white looking completely difference. So much for the benefits of 1080P when no two phones are guaranteed to look the same.
Regards
Phil
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Click to collapse
Read my post above. The Nexus 5 screen is not just higher res, it's brighter, more accurate AND more efficient, therefore it's clearly producing better user experience. Your friend has his opinion, but he'll find very few he'd agree that the Nexus 4's 720p screen beats the Nexus 5's 1080p, and that's the comparison that matters since the 5 is replacing the 4.
The Nexus 5's battery problem comes from the battery itself: at an ever so slightly thicker frame the G2 and Droid MAXX managed to pack in 3000mAh+, too bad Google didn't go for that. But the 5 has still better battery life than the 4, and the 1080p still has better efficiency.
Also, are you really complaining about the price of the 1080p display... on a $350 high-end flagship phone?
because 'murica
thats all, we dont need more than 720p in less than 7", its inperceptible.. but yes we can.
Most people got the phone for the Qualcomm 800 CPU. What does this do? It measures the amount of energy the phone is asking for and makes it as efficient as possible for the phone. Works similarly then you see in a V-Tec or Eco-tec transmission in cars. Also, you gave a lot of opinions in your post, when, you said it would be purely objective. That would make it subjective. *note I didn't say purely subjective, because you did put in some data (objective) results.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
PhilipL said:
Hi
I've been objectively comparing the display on the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 side by side and really question why we have 1080P screens on such small displays. Are we all so gullible we take in the marketing and believe more must be better?
Ignoring any arguments about better colors or contrast between the two phones, which have nothing to do with resolution, and that in my case the Nexus 4 looks little different from the Nexus 5 in color and contrast anyway, what about differences the extra resolution and slightly larger diagonal make?
Personally, I fail to see any differences in day to day use, even looking close up everything looks equal on both displays. Yes if I look very closely, closer than I would ever use the device in day to day use, I can just make out the pixel structure on the Nexus 4 where on the Nexus 5 I can't.
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Click to collapse
You can kid yourself but I regularly see substantial difference between the N5's 1080p and my GNex's 720p display and the GNex display is about the same as the Nexus 4. If you don't mind missing video information/detail then it makes sense to save some money on a middle of the road phone or buy a slightly overpriced moto x.
On the contrary, most are pleased with fine details in images and videos. If we weren't, the entire HD imaging industry wouldn't be where it is today. It's not marketing, it's consumer demand.
1080p is nice but I would have actually prefered a 720p display if it had the great view angles and contrast of the 2nd generation nexus 7. The panel on that is much nicer despite only being 323ppi.
Hi
TiltedAz said:
You can kid yourself but I regularly see substantial difference between the N5's 1080p and my GNex's 720p display and the GNex display is about the same as the Nexus 4. If you don't mind missing video information/detail then it makes sense to save some money on a middle of the road phone or buy a slightly overpriced moto x.
On the contrary, most are pleased with fine details in images and videos. If we weren't, the entire HD imaging industry wouldn't be where it is today. It's not marketing, it's consumer demand.
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I'm not kidding myself I have both phones, I'm not trying to justify not buying a Nexus 5, I already did
The entire HD industry was built upon HD Ready TVs, at only 720P in the main to start with, set to retina burning brightness and dynamic contrast out the box so they could be sold with contrast ratios of 1,000,000:1 (remember big numbers sell more). The vast majority of people never adjust the TV to true to life settings, and then wonder why anyone with a tan looks orange, even if the tan isn't fake and just accept it! Here in the UK at least, HD broadcasts are so compressed they barely resolve more detail than a standard definition picture should. Our standard definition channels are so compressed they break up regularly into a mosaic of blocks and barely resolve the detail of 360P YouTube clip circa 1995. The vast majority of people don't question the quality, and many thought they were already watching HD just because the TV had an HD sticker on it, and I know a lot of these people. People on the whole don't really care about quality. Marketing swept people towards HD TV, and there are a huge number of people with HD TVs watching nothing more than badly over-compressed standard definition TV and streamed video, none the wiser.
Can a really over compressed 720P video streamed YouTube clip (I don't think they stream 1080P to mobile devices currently) on a 5" display be sharper with more detail when that display is 1080P and not 720P?
If you don't mind missing video information/detail then it makes sense to save some money on a middle of the road phone or buy a slightly overpriced moto x.
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If you do mind missing video information than wouldn't want to watch YouTube or any other for mobile compressed video at all, most of the detail is thrown away in compression. Instead you'd sit down with your friends and family, hire or buy the Blu-ray version of a movie, have a good quality HD TV probably adjusted with a DTS AV decoder and surround sound audio, and enjoy the film as it was intended by the director.
For YouTube clips of someone pouring water over their new Nexus 5 or dropping it on to concrete until it smashes, clips of moody cats, or unboxing reviews of the latest gagdet, I think any resolution of 5" display will do just fine for the vast majority of people.
My argument really isn't relating to us techy types who pixel peek, but the vast majority of people that are persuaded to buy a new mobile phone on the basis of larger numbers driven by marketing, when in reality the benefits are not that great.
Regards
Phil
The Nexus 4 is actually 1280x768, not 1280x720. Anyway, I agree that it has become a marketing game, with 2560x1440 and higher phone displays already planned. It's questionable even if it doesn't cost a penny, because those extra pixels slow down the screen rendering.
I ordered mine with free shipping Thursday afternoon and got it yesterday.
+Good build
+Comes with a hard case (device is already in it, along with sd card)
+Fairly straight forward process
Before putting the device on head:
1. Dragged the Gear sd card folders to my 128gb card
2. Installed the VRintro APK to get the software install process started (the main apps are installed)
3. The process requires a simple registration to access the Oculus market
4. I skipped the card process since already dragged the content to my 128.
5. Once registered, the Oculus Cinema installs
6. Then the fun starts! Put the N4 in the Gear and adjust the gear to fit head
7. Then a brief simple calibration process and tutorial
Quick perspective / review:
1. More immersive than expected
2. Games are good for demos, but I mainly got it for movies
3. The 3D & 360 are surprisingly good
4. The Oculus Cinema ROCKS!!!
5. 2D movies worked fine. The only thing I could not get to work was an older concert from Youtube that was in FLV format and one avi. AVI, MP4, WMV and MKV worked fine.
6. The best Cinema options IMO are Cinema and Void. Void is nice since you can lay down and re- orientate the device view Void also provides the most display real-estate , so highest resolution. That said, I prefer Cinema a tad more due to the immersion.
7. Speaking of resolution, it is best described as between around 720p or a tad less. Before you balk at that, the experience more than compensates and the sense of large scale is impressive and the image quality is very good. Screen door goes away in your mind after a minute or two.
8. Device got real warm, but Void mode was less so, since just a black background.
9. Battery life for me was a tad over four hours watching video. Void mode might add 30 minutes.
10. Did not test a controller yet, but forum reports are any bluetooth controller should work.
11. Also did not test many images, but the immersion was great there too.
I can see this becoming HUGE for Note 4 owners and others companies jumping on the bandwagon. Also eating my words on Qhd being overkill. I now want HIGHER res on the Note 5 so video looks even better
If you are a Note 4 owner and video fan: Buy This Now
mine comes in Thursday. can't wait!
Mine is in 9n Friday and I am PUMPED. Only thing that concerns me is future support. I would really like samsung and Oculus to continue support and place a lot of effort in nourishing a healthy developer environment.
rushless said:
6. The best Cinema options IMO are Cinema and Void. Void is nice since you can lay down and re- orientate the device view Void also provides the most display real-estate , so highest resolution. That said, I prefer Cinema a tad more due to the immersion.
7. Speaking of resolution, it is best described as between around 720p or a tad less. Before you balk at that, the experience more than compensates and the sense of large scale is impressive and the image quality is very good. Screen door goes away in your mind after a minute or two.
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I too want this mostly for movie watching. I'm wondering how crazy I'd look on a plane with this. :laugh:
Can you describe a bit more about the movie experience? Is it like watching a 60" tv from a few feet away, a movie theater screen from far away, etc?
Awesome review! +1
PS - 3 New games came out on the Gear VR Store. Check it out.
my experience was 4 out of 10....I bought it to watch movies on it...but seriously you can actually count all the pixals, the quality of the video is that bad, I have the HD Quality videos loaded....now I also feel a headache after wear it for almost 30 min...mind it I don't wear glasses....It's a great start but a long way before it could be something of use.....so I'll wait for version 10 or something.
It came with a box, SD CARD Adapter and Mircro-SD card 16GB, also It came with a cleaning cloth to clean the leans...
the phone got headed after using it for 30 min, as if someone had just taken it out from micro oven--hope it doesn't burn my phone..
loaferkan said:
my experience was 4 out of 10....I bought it to watch movies on it...but seriously you can actually count all the pixals, the quality of the video is that bad, I have the HD Quality videos loaded....now I also feel a headache after wear it for almost 30 min...mind it I don't wear glasses....It's a great start but a long way before it could be something of use.....so I'll wait for version 10 or something.
It came with a box, SD CARD Adapter and Mircro-SD card 16GB, also It came with a cleaning cloth to clean the leans...
the phone got headed after using it for 30 min, as if someone had just taken it out from micro oven--hope it doesn't burn my phone..
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Click to collapse
Wonder if 2k video improves pixel issue... have you tried watching 4k in cinema mode?
Even with the Note 4 high resolution its still not enough not to notice pixels. I heard that you need like a 16k display which sounds impossible. And it is normal for the phone to get hot and that's per the operator's manual.
But not everyone can physically handle this type of experience. That's the reason why Samsung did not allow this product to be sold in stores like bestbuy. This product is not targeted to the casual user. The majority of experiences will be us geeks showing it off to other people which will drum up interest. And it also gives Samsung and Oculus time to fine tune it for Note 5. Gear VR is a step above the development kits but slightly below a consumer ready product.
Bruce lee roy said:
Wonder if 2k video improves pixel issue... have you tried watching 4k in cinema mode?
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yes the 2k videos look great, and even the 3D does a better job......
EvanWasHere said:
I too want this mostly for movie watching. I'm wondering how crazy I'd look on a plane with this. :laugh:
Can you describe a bit more about the movie experience? Is it like watching a 60" tv from a few feet away, a movie theater screen from far away, etc?
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It is like watching a 100" projector and the cinema is just like being in a huge cinema.
loaferkan said:
my experience was 4 out of 10....I bought it to watch movies on it...but seriously you can actually count all the pixals, the quality of the video is that bad, I have the HD Quality videos loaded....now I also feel a headache after wear it for almost 30 min...mind it I don't wear glasses....It's a great start but a long way before it could be something of use.....so I'll wait for version 10 or something.
It came with a box, SD CARD Adapter and Mircro-SD card 16GB, also It came with a cleaning cloth to clean the leans...
the phone got headed after using it for 30 min, as if someone had just taken it out from micro oven--hope it doesn't burn my phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look for the pixels and focus on them, it could detract, but the point is the total experience and the screen door fades from focus. Kind of like anything else if you focus on it Case in point, I notice and could count pixels in movies theaters and plasma sets. Especially the bigger digital screen systems. Everything is relative
The best view is Void if you want to minimize the pixel issue (also reduces device heat and extends battery). The home theater mode makes the pixels stand out and is like 480p due to less space for the video.
Just imagine a 1080p device with a Gear VR. That would be like an old school bar projector . Samsung knew what they were doing using Qhd. Next years S6 and Note 5 apparently up the resolution and likely the VR products are part of their reasoning for the higher res.
My N4 did not get hot as you describe, but I could see intense 3D games doing that, but I will not be playing them. Did not get the headache issues either, but depends on the person of course.
I got mine yesterday and played around with it a bit last night. My opinion is it is really cool and shows where VR could eventually go but definitely don't expect everything to be perfect yet. It all comes down to your attitude going into the experience.
1) Yes the pixels are noticeable and it is a bit worse than watching a hockey game sitting behind the netting behind the goal. You absolutely see and notice the "screen door" but you also can choose to overlook it based on the very cool experience. You also can imagine that in 2-4 years that issue will go away.
2) I wouldn't call things blurry as is being discussed in another thread yet rather the whole viewing image is not in focus. If I look straight at text it is reasonably clear but anything above, below, left or right of where my eyes are focusing will be slightly out of focus. If I move my eyes (and head) just slightly to look at a different area that becomes more in focus as compared to what I had been looking at. For the large images you don't really notice the whole effect so much but when there is a lot of different text on the screen in different areas you will certainly notice it.
3) When you first put the headset on you notice that you are looking through lenses and somewhat notice the blackness associated where your eyes are getting covered up. After a short while you stop really thinking about this and get taken into the experience.
You might read all of this as me not thinking highly of the VR or that this is just another gimmick. Let me come full out and say that isn't how I feel and I was pretty much blown away by the whole thing. I can't wait to see where VR goes from here. The first time you are watching the demo and then hear something to the right and turn your head and see something on your right that you had no idea was there you will get sucked in. From there you keep looking to your left, right and behind you and become pretty amazed.
So my take is that there are certainly issues and VR is not "there" yet but from this experience you really start to understand where VR could go and it no longer feels like an impossible technological hurdle to climb. It is no longer a question of if VR is really possible but more a question of when we are going to get there.
They need more pixels in order to increase the FOV and reduce the screen door. The Note 5 should be even better. Just hoping they keep the form factor of the Note 5 the same as the Note 5 to fit the Gear VR. That said, I will get $200 worth of fun out of this in a year, regardless.
None the less, the Gear VR is a worthy purchase for video fans IMO.
rushless said:
It is like watching a 100" projector and the cinema is just like being in a huge cinema.
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If true, this is freaking amazing.
Bruce lee roy said:
If true, this is freaking amazing.
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The catch is the resolution is less in that mode. Does look cool though.
I have played with my Gear VR for a few days and I totally agree with the review. The experience is amazing. This tech is gonna go really far. It has an insane potential.
Killemalll said:
I have played with my Gear VR for a few days and I totally agree with the review. The experience is amazing. This tech is gonna go really far. It has an insane potential.
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Yeah, im in the same boat, this thing literally blew me away. Showed a lot of folks at work this thing and they were amazed as well. It's definitely the new form of entertainment. The key word is immersive. I think with the sensons onboard the gear vr, it really helps with that. I know the Note 4 has a better screen than the oculus version but I feel we'll need at least 8k or 10k displays to eliminate the screen door effect. But overall, daaaaaammmn.
well i just received mine and all i can say is that i am blown away by it. what am amazing experience. finally, VR for the masses is set to be a reality. i let the wife and kids try it and they were all giggly over it too. one complaint: wearing eyeglasses with it sucks
rushless said:
It is like watching a 100" projector and the cinema is just like being in a huge cinema.
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Click to collapse
I have a 100" projector screen in my bedroom and it's no where close to the experience you get when you watch the cinema selection. The screen is bigger than many movie theaters I go to. And the wide video is just crazy. No home theater can touch that.
HTCMario said:
well i just received mine and all i can say is that i am blown away by it. what am amazing experience. finally, VR for the masses is set to be a reality. i let the wife and kids try it and they were all giggly over it too. one complaint: wearing eyeglasses with it sucks
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Wearing glasses with Gear VR is pretty uncormfortable i assume, can the focus wheel not adjust to your eyesight without glasses properly?
I bought Gear VR for Note 4 based on positive review, but after using it for two nights, I decide to send it back due to low resolution. Here's my illustration of how resolution is archived and my thought on it:
Movie watching experience: Low resolution ruins it. It's bad to watch anything on a 480p screen at a size of 200". Plus No DTS/AC3 support, no smb support in Oculus cinema.
Kodi supports DTS or AC3, but it also reveals that the field of view from Gear VR only covers part of Note 4's screen. See my illustration in attachment. The header, footer as well as 4 corners are not covered, which means that only central part of a movie is viewable.
Ideally, 720p (1280x720) resolution for each eye can be achieved from Note 4's 2560x1440 screen if the rectangle of half screen inscribed in the the field of view like some cardboard does. But the way Samsung's implementation of it's Gear VR makes it unable to fully take advantage of Note 4's screen. The best movie resolution that Gear VR can archive is 972x546. I understand that Samsung's take is good for VR for there is no unilluminated area within it's field of view.
I wish Samsung would come up with a new product that allow the rectangle of half screen inscribed in the field of view instead of the other way around. I think this can be archived by another set of lenes with less multiply factors than current ones. Even at 720p, the screen doesn't need to be 200". 150" would suits the pixel better.
When it comes to VR, Samsung Gear VR also suffers from low resolution. Plus 360 degree video makes me dizzy. I downloaded and watched almost all 360 degree video from youtube but I'm not impressed enough. The people figures are larger than real life. Everyone looks like giants in these videos. Among videos, I prefer those taken from a steady position. First person action view just makes me dizzy. I think it's due to my brain can't process it when the vr scene is moving around but my head is not.
360 degree picture is quite a pleasure to view though.
Sold mine to a colleague due to the exact same reasons
shadowcliffs said:
I bought Gear VR for Note 4 based on positive review, but after using it for two nights, I decide to send it back due to low resolution. Here's my illustration of how resolution is archived and my thought on it:
Movie watching experience: Low resolution ruins it. It's bad to watch anything on a 480p screen at a size of 150". Plus No DTS/AC3 support, no smb support in Oculus cinema.
Kodi supports DTS or AC3, but it also reveals that that the field of view from Gear VR only covers part of Note 4's screen. See my illustration in attachment. The header, footer as well as 4 corners are not covered, which means that only central part of a movie is viewable.
Ideally, 720p (1280x720) resolution for each eye can be archived from Note 4's 2560x1440 screen if the rectangle of half screen inscribed in the the field of view like some cardboard does. But the way Samsung implements it's Gear VR makes it unable to fully take advantage of Note 4's screen. The best movie resolution that Gear VR can archive is 972x546. I understand that Samsung's take is good for VR for there is no unilluminated area within it's field of view.
I wish Samsung would come up with a new product that focuses on watching movies .
When it comes to VR, Samsung Gear VR also suffers from low resolution. Plus 360 degree video makes me dizzy. I downloaded and watched almost all 360 degree video from youtube but not impressed enough. The people figures are lager than real life. Everyone looks like giants in these videos. Among videos, I prefer those taken from a steady position. First person action view just makes me dizzy. I think it's due to my brain can't process it when the vr scene is moving around but my head is not.
360 degree picture is quite a pleasure to view.
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Not questioning the validity pic you put up, but can I ask how you came to the conclusion that it only uses 972x546 pixels of the screen? Is it official information, or did you measure it somehow?
Toss3 said:
Not questioning the validity pic you put up, but can I ask how you came to the conclusion that it only uses 972x546 pixels of the screen? Is it official information, or did you measure it somehow?
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That's based on my calculation given my understanding of how it works (as illustrated) is correct. Samsung claims the resolution for each eye is 1440x1280, which is misleading IMO. Same reason as explained in the illustration.
shadowcliffs said:
That's based on my calculation given my understanding of how it works (as illustrated) is correct.
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Just put my N4 in my Gear VR holding my thumb to the proximity sensor, so that I could see observe the screen when connected and they are not using a completely square image - it looks more like this (except there's a gap in the middle):
It also doesn't the entire width available, but it looks like it's using more than what you have in your picture. The gap between the images is about 4mm and the gap between the image and the sides is about half that (2mm). The top and bottom gaps are about 5mm. So it's definitely using more than 720 pixels for the height, but less than 1280 pixels for the width.
EDIT: I measured it using a tape measure (not any exact numbers, but more accurate than those I came up with).
So based on these measurements the screen would use about 1190 pixels at its widest point, and 1240 pixels at its highest.
The graph shows the best scenario, where movie screen fills your entire FOV. But this is not comfortable for most viewers, and you are likely to "sit back" a little. Since you're looking through the same matrix of pixels, you are then effectively losing screen resolution, going somewhere to 480p like OP mentioned.
What's also sad, when we reach the Holy Grail of 4K (with Note 5), the movie screen would still be only 1460x820.
If you want best experience with 2D HD content, you're better off moving your chair closer to a TV than strapping Gear onto your head.
Nickoz said:
The graph shows the best scenario, where movie screen fills your entire FOV. But this is not comfortable for most viewers, and you are likely to "sit back" a little. Since you're looking through the same matrix of pixels, you are then effectively losing screen resolution, going somewhere to 480p like OP mentioned.
What's also sad, when we reach the Holy Grail of 4K (with Note 5), the movie screen would still be only 1460x820.
If you want best experience with 2D HD content, you're better off moving your chair closer to a TV than strapping Gear onto your head.
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Actually just tried to measure the screen in the cinema mode, and came up with ≈ 45mm. The screen width is 125mm, which means that half that would be 62,5mm, which would give us an approximate horizontal resolution of 45/62,5*1280 = 921pixels. Pretty much explains everything right there. Even with a 4k screen the horizontal resolution in a comfortable mode would only be 1382 px.
The screen height (screen is not a perfect rectangle) at its highest point is ≈25mm. So with a screen height of 70mm that gives us a vertical resolution of 25/70*1440≈514px.
So based on my measurements the resolution you get is pretty much 921x514 (screen is not a perfect rectangle) at the widest and highest parts.
When it comes to watching movies, the screen will be cropped to the aspect ratio of close to 1.78:1, that's how I estimated it at an effective resolution of 972x546 (the biggest 1.78:1 rectangle inscribed in the FOV circle).
You just showed that the actual FOV is not exactly a circle. Now the question is, is the actual FOV inscribed in the theoretical FOV, or the other way around. I guess a way to find out is to look through gear vr at a picture with measurement markers.
And again, in best scenario the effective movie-watching-resolution based on Note 4 screen is 720p (1280x720) considering the aspect ratio of 1.78:1. This best scenario is achieved when the rectangle of half screen (1440*1280) inscribed in the FOV. This is the case in my Chinese version of Google cardboard where the movie screen is smaller (equal to 150" from 10 feet away, more or less) and the pixel is less obvious. So the difference of this Chinese version of Google cardboard vs Samsung Gear VR is like 150" 720p screen vs 200" 5xxp screen.
Not sure about the original Google cardboard for I don't have one.
Toss3 said:
Just put my N4 in my Gear VR holding my thumb to the proximity sensor, so that I could see observe the screen when connected and they are not using a completely square image - it looks more like this (except there's a gap in the middle):
It also doesn't the entire width available, but it looks like it's using more than what you have in your picture. The gap between the images is about 4mm and the gap between the image and the sides is about half that (2mm). The top and bottom gaps are about 5mm. So it's definitely using more than 720 pixels for the height, but less than 1280 pixels for the width.
EDIT: I measured it using a tape measure (not any exact numbers, but more accurate than those I came up with).
So based on these measurements the screen would use about 1190 pixels at its widest point, and 1240 pixels at its highest.
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Click to collapse
Nickoz said:
The graph shows the best scenario, where movie screen fills your entire FOV. But this is not comfortable for most viewers, and you are likely to "sit back" a little. Since you're looking through the same matrix of pixels, you are then effectively losing screen resolution, going somewhere to 480p like OP mentioned.
What's also sad, when we reach the Holy Grail of 4K (with Note 5), the movie screen would still be only 1460x820.
If you want best experience with 2D HD content, you're better off moving your chair closer to a TV than strapping Gear onto your head.
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Click to collapse
In theory (if my theory is not faulted), to be 1080p movie ready for each eye, the width of the half screen needs to be 1920, which equal to 3840 in whole screen. The height is already more than enough (1440 available, 1080 needed). So the resolution needed from the phone screen is 3840x(1080 to 2160, the former may make the phone too long, but who knows right? The latter will keep the same aspect ratio as Note 4).
Can the lenses on gear vr be replaced so that it will make the screen through it smaller, for watching movie's sake?
I love mine as a great start to mobile VR and i have watch lots of films via oculus cinema. Can't wait for note 5 and new gear vr but perfect start samsung
hashcheck said:
I love mine as a great start to mobile VR and i have watch lots of films via oculus cinema. Can't wait for note 5 and new gear vr but perfect start samsung
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Here I'm mainly talking about movie-watching ecperience. The experience is ymmv. For a guy used to watch movie on a 120" projector screen, or a 60" 3D Samsung TV, gear vr experience is unbearable, while Chinese version Google cardboard is very impressive except for it's build is not goog enough.
shadowcliffs said:
Here I'm mainly talking about movie-watching ecperience. The experience is ymmv. For a guy used to watch movie on a 120" projector screen, or a 60" 3D Samsung TV, gear vr experience is unbearable, while Chinese version Google cardboard is very impressive except for it's build is not goog enough.
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I have a 120" movie screen (only 1080p though), and I personally don't find the experience "unbearable", just not as good. Still think it beats watching the movie on just your phone though or laptop.
Totally agree Toss3
Toss3 said:
I have a 120" movie screen (only 1080p though), and I personally don't find the experience "unbearable", just not as good. Still think it beats watching the movie on just your phone though or laptop.
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Right, I realized that unbearable is too much of a word. I meant to say that I still prefer to watch movies on 120" projector screen or 60" LED TV over current gear vr. It's a pity because gear vr would have done better. I'm impressed with it's build and the quality of lens, but the lens is not of the correct multiply factor for watching movies.
The gearvr resolution actually gets better overtime as you start not noticing the screen door effect the more you use it. Sure it's not perfect but heaps better then the oculus rift dk2. I'm can't wait for note 5 version
Average viewable res is 540p. Void mode shows more content at about 640p since no VR graphics (depending on video format).
I prefer Void due to more of the video res shown, can view laying down and at least 30% more battery life.
I'm looking for the best VR Glasses for Cell phone to watch movie. Obviously Gear VR isn't the best due to reason explained here.
Gear VR may not be the best but there is nothing better in this price range. Possibly there are some military grade glasses with direct retinal projection but they ate not available to general population. Gear VR for S6 supposedly is little better due to smaller pixels.
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app
Gear VR would be better IMO if the lens view was a little further back. It currently is like sitting in the front two rows of the theater. It would be nicer IMO if eight to ten rows instead. Less screen door then as well.
You can move back rows in the app, but that is digital (not lens based) so means less content per pixel, so even MORE screen door effect. I do not see the value in it, but some think it is nice. I just notice more
screen door that is already border-line too much for movies as it is without software shifting back rows. This will not get better until a 4K display is avialable, or the next Gear allows lens adjustment for the bigger displays.
Apparently the Note 5 will not be 4K since the tech will not be cost effective yet to cover the lead-time of mass production for the Note 5. That is rumor to this point though.
I am keen to buy the OP5 but the pentile Amoled is holding me back ! Have heard a few reviews of the lacking display, especially with only FHD resolution.
Any thoughts or feedback, and any feedback from OP3 users would be appreciated.
Sent from my SM-G935U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
I don't see the need for QHD or WQHD on a 5-6 inch screen. 1080 is more than enough for me. Especially if it provides better battery life and keeps the cost down.
pharpe said:
I don't see the need for QHD or WQHD on a 5-6 inch screen. 1080 is more than enough for me. Especially if it provides better battery life and keeps the cost down.
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That's true but I would keep FHD to mid-range phone and QHD on top-end phones. Yes I agree 1080p is definitely more than enough for a normal user but not a power user such as myself as 2K makes a HUGE different in Virtual Reality which is becoming big. Nothing stops OnePlus from implementing the same feature as the S8 where it switches between 1080p and 2K when it needs it! (not sure if that's true just something I heard) or for an another example there's the Sony flagship with the 4K screen it only enables 4K when it needs it as that will eat the battery and resources. So I don't see no reason why they shouldn't implement a 2K screen (apart from them keeping costs down)
Since V/R-A/R will be with us on smartphones for at least 1 more iteration, How will this resolution look in V/R?
pharpe said:
I don't see the need for QHD or WQHD on a 5-6 inch screen. 1080 is more than enough for me. Especially if it provides better battery life and keeps the cost down.
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It's not the resolution which is a challenge, rather it's the pentile arrangement of the Amoled screen... That's what I am looking to get more info about.
Sent from my SM-G935U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Agree totally. Loved the OP3 apart from the screen which was really poor compared to rivals. You could get used to it for sure but side by side with others it was really apparent how poor it was (effective resolution due to pentile and the colours)
Pentile on 1080 is totally NOT ok. It is clearly visible.
Pentile on 2k would give a full 1080 resolution.
But... My LG G2 is from 2013 and has a full 1080(lcd) display. If I buy a phone 4 years later, i'd expect it to be a full 2k resolution.
The 1080 pentile on the OP3 is horrible. I'm praying the OP5 has a QHD display or I won't buy it.
I own a OP3 and the screen is perfectly fine for me and my friends.
To be nitpicking just blacks are a bit washed out, but not badly at all.
Giocarro said:
I own a OP3 and the screen is perfectly fine for me and my friends.
To be nitpicking just blacks are a bit washed out, but not badly at all.
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Coming from a S7edge, that's sounds like bad news for me [emoji22]
Sent from my SM-G935U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
I would also love to see a 1440p display.
Well, while people gripe about why their microscopic screens don't have the resolution required for a 60 inch tv to have I guess less of us are going to enjoy the best smartphone of 2017. People are really pushing for the uselessness of QHD for experimental technology such as VR? Even if you get the QHD you want, are you really going to have that headset plugged in all the time to justify having QHD? Then again i guess those 160x160 photos people post on facebook look great in 2560x1440. My tablet has a QHD screen and i dont notice the difference. QHD is just useless on anything smaller than a 32 inch display. Stop jacking up the price for the 5% of people who would even benefit from QHD. Im sure VR looks fine in 1080, or does it look bad because some famous tech reviewer said it looks bad?
OcazPrime said:
Well, while people gripe about why their microscopic screens don't have the resolution required for a 60 inch tv to have I guess less of us are going to enjoy the best smartphone of 2017. People are really pushing for the uselessness of QHD for experimental technology such as VR? Even if you get the QHD you want, are you really going to have that headset plugged in all the time to justify having QHD? Then again i guess those 160x160 photos people post on facebook look great in 2560x1440. My tablet has a QHD screen and i dont notice the difference. QHD is just useless on anything smaller than a 32 inch display. Stop jacking up the price for the 5% of people who would even benefit from QHD. Im sure VR looks fine in 1080, or does it look bad because some famous tech reviewer said it looks bad?
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Nonsense.
B3501 said:
Nonsense.
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Nice rebuttal m8
OcazPrime said:
Nice rebuttal m8
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Do people not know how pentile displays work? Your getting an effective resolution of around 800-900 with the 1080 OP3. It's not enough and you can see it on the 3T. The OPO is even sharper because it doesn't use a pentile display. If the OP5 has another 1080 pentile display its a major draw back.
B3501 said:
Do people not know how pentile displays work? Your getting an effective resolution of around 800-900 with the 1080 OP3. It's not enough and you can see it on the 3T. The OPO is even sharper because it doesn't use a pentile display. If the OP5 has another 1080 pentile display its a major draw back.
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I know how they work. It's a phone dude. Who cares about huge resolutions on this small display. It's not a major draw back, it saves power and money for both us and OnePlus. Get a computer if you need better viewing conditions. I've never had an issue watching youtube in HD or twitch in HD on my 3T. It always looks incredibly sharp and clear with nice colors. Then again I appear to be not even 1% as picky as you seem to be
I personally don't need the extreme HD screen because most of what people do on phones is check email, text, take pictures, social media, web browsing and maybe a game for a bit or watch youtube for a little bit. Not everyone is watching 4K videos on their phones or using VR or whatever else you'd even need a QHD screen for....
OcazPrime said:
I know how they work. It's a phone dude. Who cares about huge resolutions on this small display. It's not a major draw back, it saves power and money for both us and OnePlus. Get a computer if you need better viewing conditions. I've never had an issue watching youtube in HD or twitch in HD on my 3T. It always looks incredibly sharp and clear with nice colors. Then again I appear to be not even 1% as picky as you seem to be
I personally don't need the extreme HD screen because most of what people do on phones is check email, text, take pictures, social media, web browsing and maybe a game for a bit or watch youtube for a little bit. Not everyone is watching 4K videos on their phones or using VR or whatever else you'd even need a QHD screen for....
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It looks ugly, the screen is a downgrade from my old 6P. Its the biggest part of the phone, the thing you look at and interact with. If OP are bumping up the price to $550 then with a 1080 screen they can forget it.
B3501 said:
It looks ugly, the screen is a downgrade from my old 6P. Its the biggest part of the phone, the thing you look at and interact with. If OP are bumping up the price to $550 then with a 1080 screen they can forget it.
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+1.
B3501 said:
It looks ugly, the screen is a downgrade from my old 6P. Its the biggest part of the phone, the thing you look at and interact with. If OP are bumping up the price to $550 then with a 1080 screen they can forget it.
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the thing is, no one here seems to be taking these leaks with a grain of salt whatsoever. They think they know all the specs already. If they turn out to be correct then great. But, the reveal is 6 days away from now. Can't we just wait for the reveal until we're up in arms about a small piece of glass with glowing lights? I'm all for whatever lets me have more battery and a good experience overall. But we know nothing official about the internals of the phone at the moment. I'm going to say wait and relax until the thing is out or we know the official specs straight from oneplus themselves.
OcazPrime said:
the thing is, no one here seems to be taking these leaks with a grain of salt whatsoever. They think they know all the specs already. If they turn out to be correct then great. But, the reveal is 6 days away from now. Can't we just wait for the reveal until we're up in arms about a small piece of glass with glowing lights? I'm all for whatever lets me have more battery and a good experience overall. But we know nothing official about the internals of the phone at the moment. I'm going to say wait and relax until the thing is out or we know the official specs straight from oneplus themselves.
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If it is pentile, I'd have to see it in person to tell if it would bother me or not. I had a galaxy nexus which had a 720p pentile, and that was a little bit bothersome, and the nexus 6 with 1440p pentile, which I couldn't notice if I tried. I don't think I've ever seen a 1080p pentile in person, but it's gotta be better than 720p pentile!