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Verizon tech just told me to ROOT my phone

Thought this was very odd. I was on phone with tech support cuz my phone bricked itself today. not sure how or why i wasnt even using it. The tech sending me replacement suggested i root my phone because it would help a lot with the random reboot issue i originally had called ina bout last week.
Proceeded to tell me that Verizon does not care if you root as long as the factory data reset will work as intended for them.
Didnt know if this information was well known or not just thought it was odd that a tech tell me to root my phone.

cbrebel said:
Thought this was very odd. I was on phone with tech support cuz my phone bricked itself today. not sure how or why i wasnt even using it. The tech sending me replacement suggested i root my phone because it would help a lot with the random reboot issue i originally had called ina bout last week.
Proceeded to tell me that Verizon does not care if you root as long as the factory data reset will work as intended for them.
Didnt know if this information was well known or not just thought it was odd that a tech tell me to root my phone.
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I am guessing that means the LG/Stock Factory Reset but CWM Factory Reset does the exact same thing so I am still wondering what that means.. very suspicious

That's very odd. I used to work for AT&T and they said we could loose our job of we told a customer to change the core software on any device. Strange indeed.
--My REVO is Broken, tweaked, SC'd, and TB'd. Just awesome!

drt054 said:
I am guessing that means the LG/Stock Factory Reset but CWM Factory Reset does the exact same thing so I am still wondering what that means.. very suspicious
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yeah that is what he was saying (he was telling me how he rooted his and was using cwm as well) but he said that verizons policy is that as long as the "STOCK" factory reset takes it back to original condition then they will not persue anything any further. (which btw is stock zv7 right now) the new phone they shipped me doesnt have zv8 yet either.
who knows i just thought i would elaborate what the tech told me.
the phone i sending back had CWM on it and wouldnt boot or charge battery. so i manage to get it into emergency mode and left it for about 18 hours which gave me almost 35 % charge( seems very low) but i managed to push the zv7 tot and revivie it to send back. YAY

Vzn and root
There is a lot of misconception about rooting, I used to co manage a vzn reseller.
If you go to the android market there are root apps all over the place, if rooting voided any warranties there would be huge liability issues for legal software developers and customer uproar. Plus the hardware OEMS would not alllow it to be sold legally. Rooting is a software change you are not hacking or modifying hardware here. Plus android is marketed as open source unlike iphone OS.

drutman said:
There is a lot of misconception about rooting, I used to co manage a vzn reseller.
If you go to the android market there are root apps all over the place, if rooting voided any warranties there would be huge liability issues for legal software developers and customer uproar. Plus the hardware OEMS would not alllow it to be sold legally. Rooting is a software change you are not hacking or modifying hardware here. Plus android is marketed as open source unlike iphone OS.
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+1 U.S already has declared that rooting any android device is not under any circumstances classed as illegal.
Sent from my Sensation using XDA

RevoRooting
Verizon might also be less persnickety about rooting on the Revolution because it's on its way out. I know Verizon was much pickier about my Droid 1 when it was new than they were a few months ago.

sensation lover said:
+1 U.S already has declared that rooting any android device is not under any circumstances classed as illegal.
Sent from my Sensation using XDA
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This was only a 1 year term on that ruling. it is coming up again soon whether or not it is viable to do it or not.

cbrebel said:
yeah that is what he was saying (he was telling me how he rooted his and was using cwm as well) but he said that verizons policy is that as long as the "STOCK" factory reset takes it back to original condition then they will not persue anything any further. (which btw is stock zv7 right now) the new phone they shipped me doesnt have zv8 yet either.
who knows i just thought i would elaborate what the tech told me.
the phone i sending back had CWM on it and wouldnt boot or charge battery. so i manage to get it into emergency mode and left it for about 18 hours which gave me almost 35 % charge( seems very low) but i managed to push the zv7 tot and revivie it to send back. YAY
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Oh man, I totally did that when I had gotten my Revo. Fortunately Thecubed was around, and he took control of my computer and fixed the phone. It was awesome. I recall the battery taking for ever to recharge. We had to wait 30 minutes before we could try anything. We needed enough juice to run ADB and push stuff to my phone.

yep what the verizon sales/ tech guy said
walked into verizon today. my phone messed up but thats another thread... and he literally said verizon does not care if u root your phone... didnt say as long as or anything else. just said they dont care. so yeah feel free to ask them yourself.

LaggyWizard said:
walked into verizon today. my phone messed up but thats another thread... and he literally said verizon does not care if u root your phone... didnt say as long as or anything else. just said they dont care. so yeah feel free to ask them yourself.
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That's the glory of open source...
Sent from my VS910 4G using XDA

Yeah they Dont care, but brick one & try to get a replacement in warranty if you do.
Last month i made a boo boo installing Clockwork Mod and locked it up.
While they were very helpful, nice, and understanding; And a couple weeks later when I came in with my repaired phone (thanks to un_brickable) were more than happy to get me back online with a new sim card (I had to use my sons old HTC Incredible until I FINALLY found the fix). The warranty is now VOID and I was NOT going to get a new one.
I also dropped the protection plan & bought a "development" Revolution off of E-bay. So if i blow one up i can be back up & running in a couple minutes. cheaper in the long run.
Sometimes being Honest doesnt pay off. But in the end I have a BETTER phone for the experience. (2 of them actually)

cbrebel said:
Proceeded to tell me that Verizon does not care if you root as long as the factory data reset will work as intended for them.
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I find this hard to believe. If they don't care, why do they keep shutting the door on every new exploit?
Sent from my BrokenOut 1.1 4G VS910 LG Revolution using Tapatalk 2.

stackrat said:
I find this hard to believe. If they don't care, why do they keep shutting the door on every new exploit?
Sent from my BrokenOut 1.1 4G VS910 LG Revolution using Tapatalk 2.
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Because an exploit is just that, something that can be used maliciously. They aren't trying to screw with rooted people, they are patching security holes.
Sent from my Gingervolt-ed VS910 4G using xda premium

stackrat said:
I find this hard to believe. If they don't care, why do they keep shutting the door on every new exploit?
Sent from my BrokenOut 1.1 4G VS910 LG Revolution using Tapatalk 2.
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any vulnerable area in the code HAS to be patched because the first people we blame for the phone getting hacked, is Verizon, for not having the security it should have in the software
Sent from my VS910 4G using XDA

Rooted phones are a liability...
For Verizon. The reps don't care (of course), but the main company does. It does void your warranty if they find out about it.
See, the tethering apps, Google navigation, Google voice, etc, etc are all lost profits. This is especially true with this phone, where in stock form, they nickel and dime you for "Verizon Navigation," "Verizon Voicemail," and "Verizon Tether."
Another negative impact for them is the number of returns the early rooting and experimentation process creates. I can remember the number of "forced failures" and nit-picking occurring on my old Eris when people were flashing the leaked upgrade that permanently disabled root, just so they had an excuse to return them.
The Verizon reps are "next-to-minimum-wage," 18-30 year old employees who could give a rat's patootie what you do with your phone. The RMA techs, on the other hand, may not be so forgiving.

Easy way to update to MF3. (I537)

I used to work at the Best Buy Samsung Experience Shop. I went by there the other day. They have a tool that updates your phone to MF3 and it doesn't remove hardly any data. I rerooted and reinstalled safestrap and everything was still there.

So, this begs the obvious question: do you have any friends at that Best Buy that could maybe, you know... <hint hint> hit you up with a copy of whatever software they're using to do that?
HEY I HAD TO ASK!!!

I did this the other day and say that this works perfectly! So glad to be back on MF3!!

I don't think I can get a copy. The best I can do is make a flashable backup afterward and upload it. = / the software downloads it from a server.

chronicaust said:
I don't think I can get a copy. The best I can do is make a flashable backup afterward and upload it. = / the software downloads it from a server.
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I don't think he was asking for the file specifically but rather a copy of the software they are using. It's logical to assume that if we were able to obtain a copy of the software they use at best buy the it could still be made to download and flash the appropriate mf3 firmware file from anywhere with an internet connection.
Sent from my GT-I9295 using XDA Premium HD app

Does every Best Buy have a Samsung Rep?
Sent from my GT-P5110 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

dave5777 said:
Does every Best Buy have a Samsung Rep?
Sent from my GT-P5110 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Not every one, but most.

dave5777 said:
Does every Best Buy have a Samsung Rep?
Sent from my GT-P5110 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Your best bet is to call and ask at your local best buy. That's what I did. My best buy is small but they have one there. I'll be going there this weekend to see if they can update mine.
Sent from my LG-E970 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

tmease1 said:
Your best bet is to call and ask at your local best buy. That's what I did. My best buy is small but they have one there. I'll be going there this weekend to see if they can update mine.
Sent from my LG-E970 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
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They can choose to either give you complete factory or just update only just do you know. Good luck it's a great tool I've used it. You should be good = ).

Please
chronicaust said:
I don't think I can get a copy. The best I can do is make a flashable backup afterward and upload it. = / the software downloads it from a server.
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Click to collapse
Upload a backup Please!
-TransformixS3

Well I stopped by a local Best Buy here in Vegas this morning, sat in line waiting to speak to the "Samsung rep" (there were like 4 people in front of me) and when I was finally up the guy said "Oh, the Samsung rep is right behind me in the other section..." DOH!!!
Anyway, I had returned my GS4A (I537 of course) to MF1 earlier this morning, no root, nothing else but the ROM flashed from that ODIN One-Click that's available and...
The software they're using at Best Buy basically ignored my GS4A completely, recognizing it's running MF1 but it wouldn't do anything else and said the ROM wasn't compatible. The guy asked if I'd been rooted and of course I said "No..." then he said is it unlocked and I said "Yes..." and he said that's why.
I commented that would be a bit stupid since they do sell the phones off-contract and by doing so a person could get the unlock code from AT&T (as I did, actually, through an eBay seller who got it from AT&T) and he just shrugged his shoulders and handed me my phone and that was that. The rep specifically stated 3 times in a row that if it's unlocked you can't flash it with their software, so I made note of it and I'm passing along what at least this one "Samsung rep" stated to me - I can't verify or confirm it's true but that's what he said, 3 times in a row. He never mentioned rooting more than the one question, but was quite adamant that I understood the reason it wasn't working which by his statements was that if the phone is unlocked they can't flash it; I personally think it's a combination of mine being rooted in the past with activeroot and also being (carrier) unlocked as well.
So... I don't think being rooted caused the problem more than being unlocked, but at this point I don't have any clue to be honest, it could actually be a combination of both for whatever reason but this MF1 isn't rooted, that much I know for certain.
Anyway, that's a dead end for me so I'll just put Safestrap back on and load up the AOSP ROM with the MF1 kernel modules and the camera fix and be done with it, that's enough ROM swapping for me for the time being.
So just for the record: if you're thinking about doing this and you've rooted your I537 at any point, that may stop this potential flash of MF3 at Best Buy on your device cold - if it's unlocked that might have something to do with it as well but I'm going to guess they're checking for root even if you've completely restored an unrooted ROM like MF1, or they're just getting wise to us with the MF1 and MI2 pre-release ROMs we've been toying around with, I just don't know.
Would be nice to get MF3 back on here just in case AT&T does drop 4.3 during October but, I guess I'm somewhat "stuck" now since I'd prefer to have working screenshots so that means MF1 or the AOSP ROM.
Just passing along my experience...

br0adband said:
Well I stopped by a local Best Buy here in Vegas this morning, sat in line waiting to speak to the "Samsung rep" (there were like 4 people in front of me) and when I was finally up the guy said "Oh, the Samsung rep is right behind me in the other section..." DOH!!!
Anyway, I had returned my GS4A (I537 of course) to MF1 earlier this morning, no root, nothing else but the ROM flashed from that ODIN One-Click that's available and...
The software they're using at Best Buy basically ignored my GS4A completely, recognizing it's running MF1 but it wouldn't do anything else and said the ROM wasn't compatible. The guy asked if I'd been rooted and of course I said "No..." then he said is it unlocked and I said "Yes..." and he said that's why.
I commented that would be a bit stupid since they do sell the phones off-contract and by doing so a person could get the unlock code from AT&T (as I did, actually, through an eBay seller who got it from AT&T) and he just shrugged his shoulders and handed me my phone and that was that. The rep specifically stated 3 times in a row that if it's unlocked you can't flash it with their software, so I made note of it and I'm passing along what at least this one "Samsung rep" stated to me - I can't verify or confirm it's true but that's what he said, 3 times in a row. He never mentioned rooting more than the one question, but was quite adamant that I understood the reason it wasn't working which by his statements was that if the phone is unlocked they can't flash it; I personally think it's a combination of mine being rooted in the past with activeroot and also being (carrier) unlocked as well.
So... I don't think being rooted caused the problem more than being unlocked, but at this point I don't have any clue to be honest, it could actually be a combination of both for whatever reason but this MF1 isn't rooted, that much I know for certain.
Anyway, that's a dead end for me so I'll just put Safestrap back on and load up the AOSP ROM with the MF1 kernel modules and the camera fix and be done with it, that's enough ROM swapping for me for the time being.
So just for the record: if you're thinking about doing this and you've rooted your I537 at any point, that may stop this potential flash of MF3 at Best Buy on your device cold - if it's unlocked that might have something to do with it as well but I'm going to guess they're checking for root even if you've completely restored an unrooted ROM like MF1, or they're just getting wise to us with the MF1 and MI2 pre-release ROMs we've been toying around with, I just don't know.
Would be nice to get MF3 back on here just in case AT&T does drop 4.3 during October but, I guess I'm somewhat "stuck" now since I'd prefer to have working screenshots so that means MF1 or the AOSP ROM.
Just passing along my experience...
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Wow that sounds like a horrible experience. What I'm gathering from this is that the rep didn't know what he was talking about. My i537 is also unlocked, rooted, triple booting roms (safestrap) and I got the update just fine.
Here is what I bet happened. The tool they use has 2 different functions, and one isn't as well known. The one they usually use is basically connecting your phone (no download mode) and it updates, and that's that. That one never works. The other one requires them to press ALT + F10 on their keyboard and enter a password to get into the actual system that will give you the update to MF3. My guess is the rep didn't know about this.
I am 100% positive it can be done Br0adband. That rep was clueless.

chronicaust said:
Wow that sounds like a horrible experience. What I'm gathering from this is that the rep didn't know what he was talking about. My i537 is also unlocked, rooted, triple booting roms (safestrap) and I got the update just fine.
Here is what I bet happened. The tool they use has 2 different functions, and one isn't as well known. The one they usually use is basically connecting your phone (no download mode) and it updates, and that's that. That one never works. The other one requires them to press ALT + F10 on their keyboard and enter a password to get into the actual system that will give you the update to MF3. My guess is the rep didn't know about this.
I am 100% positive it can be done Br0adband. That rep was clueless.
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Yah, he just plugged in the phone with it on and operational, clicked a tile on the screen (there were like a dozen of them each one supposedly for a different device), and after 20-30 seconds of it reading data from the device it just pulled up the ROM build (MF1) and then said it was incompatible.
Interesting, but I'm not sure if it's worth going back and dealing with the guy a second time - maybe I'll try again later tonight before they close and hopefully someone else will be on shift and I can mention the ALT+F10 thing, hopefully they'll have a clue.
My question to you is: did they require doing the ALT+F10 to get your device flashed properly?
Thanks for that tidbit of info, kinda wish you'd mentioned it earlier but but but...

It took the rep a few tries with mine... And one of those he switched the cable. I'd try a different best buy (if u can) or wait till someone else is at the keyboard. The last few months talking to AT&T tech support, they gave me all kinds of excuses too, but I could tell they had no clue or real skills beyond their training courses. Mine is not unlocked though.

br0adband said:
Yah, he just plugged in the phone with it on and operational, clicked a tile on the screen (there were like a dozen of them each one supposedly for a different device), and after 20-30 seconds of it reading data from the device it just pulled up the ROM build (MF1) and then said it was incompatible.
Interesting, but I'm not sure if it's worth going back and dealing with the guy a second time - maybe I'll try again later tonight before they close and hopefully someone else will be on shift and I can mention the ALT+F10 thing, hopefully they'll have a clue.
My question to you is: did they require doing the ALT+F10 to get your device flashed properly?
Thanks for that tidbit of info, kinda wish you'd mentioned it earlier but but but...
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Yes sir it did. If they don't know the password, it's probably smart100 if they act like it's a big deal tell them to call their field support hotline. Lolol

Not sure if it's worth all this hassle but, we'll see what happens if I decide to head back to Best Buy later. Thanks again for the info.

Going to best buy in the am
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 4

I went at 10 when they opened the Samsung rep doesn't come in til noon. I'll try it tomorrow.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 4

I just got my phone updated to MF3 at my local Best Buy. First try said it was incompatible, so he called his support line and was told to put phone in download mode to update firm ware. Now I'm on official MF3. The Samsung rep was very cool let me watch the whole process.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Will have to pass along that info to the Samsung rep if I do decide to head back to get MF3 installed. Running nicely on MF1 right at this moment so I'll stick with this for the time being. Thanks for the report.
Now if we could just yank that MF3 off yours into a flashable zip or whatever...
Pretty sure those days are coming to a close with the 4.3+ releases as Samsung apparently has every intention of locking down everything to as many degrees as possible.

[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.

I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
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I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
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T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.

Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
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Click to collapse
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.

cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
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Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.

I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.

What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.

AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.

rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
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Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
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I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!

I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
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It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.

After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..

Root Concerns

I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we NEED the bootloader unlocked in order to achieve root it just makes it a hell of a lot easier. I believe the Note 3 on certain carriers still has the bootloader locked but someone was able to find a vulnerability and used that to get root. But I do share your concern as many carriers are offering upgrades after a year and most developers and obviously users get new devices with their upgrade.

Correct, we don't need an unlock bootloader to have root, but, Kitkat update has patch all the vulnerabilities that were use in previous devices like the S4 and Note 3, currently all Note3 shipped with KitKat are stock with no root because of that. I personally think that root will not be achieved on the S5 (Verizon and AT&T), the Note 3 has been on the market way longer than the S5 and the bootloader still locked and root is thing of the past if the Device was shipped with KK from factory.
Besides most of the Devs are researchers and get better recognition/$$$ by giving the exploits to manufactures instead of making it public. Other Devs just like to make it for Fun, but with the locked bootloader there is not much fun but a lot of work instead, and since no everybody that pledges actually pays is not worth it for them to actually work on getting root for a device you can get unlocked on other networks (ex. T-Mo). If all S5 were to be shipped with a locked bootloader, you would had root by now.

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
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These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.

I'm really regretting my purchase of the S5 without having root, and to hear that it may never come is really concerning.

Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?

The carriers are getting work and ideas from us, then adding those features to the phones. Then locking them up (Bootloaders, No Root) because - Like Kenny says, they want to be more secure for corporations. Some people use root for bad things like (Not paying for apps and Xposed modules blocking ads, and other things that they don't want us doing) I use root for LONG LASTING BATTERY LIFE and getting rid of bloatware apps running in the background I dont even use. Yes, it sucks we can't do the things we use to but, they have made it so we can Turn Off apps, Long Lasting battery with the Ultra Power Save feature, etc......(Things we did with root are now coming on the phone >Stole those ideas from us<
EDIT: LETS GO KINGO, YOU CAN DO IT !!!!!! Maybe soon Kingo can produce a root option. That would be awesome. I'm not leaving At&t, been there for 18 years. Great coverage and customer service has been awesome to me !!!

Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

LoopingCreeper said:
Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
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Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.
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I know what your mean. Freedom can be used to get in app purchaces for free. That is kinda getting apps for free and it requires root.
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app

For me, ans more of a power user, the Root abilities were to get a smooother better battery life custom solution. I used Adaway and some apps for better performance. Other than that, root didnt mean much to me. I do miss the rebel aspect of it and that alone rather makes me wish I had bought the HTC M8 instead of the S5 last week.
Best of luck to the Devs that find us a root or AT&T to provide unlocking.

I'm with you guys. I'm just out to up my battery life, remove ads (admittedly. Can you blame me?), and have a few hardware changes, like reassigning buttons, switching music with my volume keys and such.
Biggest want? Titanium backup. I relied on that app more than I'd like to admit, as well as TWRP or ClockWork (depending on the phone/ROM I was using at the time).
It's just nice to be free with something I bought full price, SO I COULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT I WANTED WITH IT.
Either way, We'll see what happens. All I want is root permissions.
Here's a curious thought, though. The AT&T S4 isn't rooted, but they have a workaround (loki mod). Anyone know if something like that is in the works for us?

I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.

I'm personally getting ready to purchase another device, I love my GS5 even tho it isn't rooted but I'm just not liking the size of it. I got it for $10 with my team member discount but I think I'm going to either get a T-Mobile one or European S5. Idk I want to stay with Samsung but this whole locked phone thing is discouraging.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.
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That's the only reason I kept and probably will keep my Nexus 5...

Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
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Click to collapse
I've seen maybe one or two times since I've been a member of XDA where a bounty worked achieve root or an unlocked bootloader. Honestly, I doubt many of the devs who work on that type of stuff bought an AT&T S5. If it was me, I would have gone T-Mobile or International, as I'm sure most have.
Also, as someone said above, not everyone pays their pledges. The longer a bounty lasts, the bigger chance people who have pledged early have moved on or are not following anymore. I'm willing to bet that if a bounty was close to 2K, the most a dev could hope for is maybe $500, if their lucky. That's still quite a bit of money, but no where near what was pledged. Past experiences dictate present actions.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.
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The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Skizzy034 said:
The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.

KennyG123 said:
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.
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Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks

Colerunn said:
Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?
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MetroPCS S5 for $649+ $30 unlock code from cellunlocker-dot-net and you have a wide open west device ready for custom recovery/roms, the works. Also will be carrier unlocked and completely unbranded. Radio has all the LTE bands for TMO and ATT, LTE works. Was using Alliance Rom at the time.
I did sell mine and picked up an M8. Just prefer the feel in hand, 32GB (what was SEC thinking 16GB on a top tier device!) and of course the IPS LCD just looks better to my old, tired eyes than the SuperAMOLED+. Of course everyone's preferences are different.
If you're a night owl and prefer full darkness viewing the AMOLED displays can't be beat. Using LUX I was able to turn down the brightness to just about nothing and the contrast is still outstanding. LCDs (of course) wash out since they do have finite limits of contrast at low levels...
But in normal environments, wow, the IPS display looks spectacular...
In any case, expecting root on an ATT device these days is probably going to lead to major disappointment. Personally, I'd rather use an iOS device than a locked bootloader device (S4/S5).
When you're used to having the freedom of root and can no longer do the things you get used to it's like a punishment, having virtual shackles around your feet and expected to run a 10K on a day with 80 degree dewpoints. Oh yes and with a family of hungry black bears right behind you...

LuckyColdJohnson said:
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks
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Not really needed if it is just as locked down and basically same hardware will see how it goes.

Selling on Swappa, Should I unroot??

Just as the title says, I am looking to sell my verizon s6 edge on Swappa. I am undecided if I should take it back to stock or not before I list it. I feel like a huge amount of normal users may be scared away by the fact that it's rooted on oe2 with clean rom.
What do you guys think? I am wanting to get the 64 gig moto x pure so I can unlock the bootloader and have my way with it, so I think a $500 price for a mint phone would be fair, but I just don't want to scare away potential buyers.
Opinions??

jsminnis said:
Just as the title says, I am looking to sell my verizon s6 edge on Swappa. I am undecided if I should take it back to stock or not before I list it. I feel like a huge amount of normal users may be scared away by the fact that it's rooted on oe2 with clean rom.
What do you guys think? I am wanting to get the 64 gig moto x pure so I can unlock the bootloader and have my way with it, so I think a $500 price for a mint phone would be fair, but I just don't want to scare away potential buyers.
Opinions??
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~90% of users do not even know what root means.
If you sell the phone to one of those users the buyer will likely panic and ask why every update is failing to install.
Your smartest move would be to unroot through Odin.
If the buyer wants root he/she can root.

Snowby123 said:
~90% of users do not even know what root means.
If you sell the phone to one of those users the buyer will likely panic and ask why every update is failing to install.
Your smartest move would be to unroot through Odin.
If the buyer wants root he/she can root.
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Actually, they couldn't root, because the latest update doesn't allow it. I guess I just hate to unroot a phone and render it unrootable because rooting is at the core of my nature, lol. I just have to remember it won't be mine to tinker with anymore, haha

jsminnis said:
Actually, they couldn't root, because the latest update doesn't allow it. I guess I just hate to unroot a phone and render it unrootable because rooting is at the core of my nature, lol. I just have to remember it won't be mine to tinker with anymore, haha
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s6-edge/general/sm-g925f-s6-firmware-thread-t3078841
This thread gives the appropriate firmware used to unroot.
Every time I use it, I am able to root again.
It restores the phone to the original factory settings, the OC3 build.
OC3 obviously can be rooted.

Snowby123 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s6-edge/general/sm-g925f-s6-firmware-thread-t3078841
This thread gives the appropriate firmware used to unroot.
Every time I use it, I am able to root again.
It restores the phone to the original factory settings, the OC3 build.
OC3 obviously can be rooted.
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I got ya, that's a good Idea. I will just sell it on oc3. If they know what they are doing then they can take it from there.

jsminnis said:
I got ya, that's a good Idea. I will just sell it on oc3. If they know what they are doing then they can take it from there.
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I totally agree. At least keep it on the rootable firmware. Its a smaller percentage of people who root, but many of those people use swappa. Its even an option for your listing. I have myself bought an mdk s4 just because it was the only place I could find the last vzw Samsung device with an unlocked bootloader. I payed more for it too, after mine broke. I would imagine those interested in a rootable s6 edge would probably do the same.
Sent from my SM-G925V

When I sold my galaxy s4 the person buying the device wanted it to remain rooted, and paid extra for it. It all depends on the buyer.
Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk