Database Develop

Our fight against Motorola & Verizon

If you haven't heard all ready Verizon is tracking down root users and limiting there data or fully suspending it so watch out. But we have to fight back against them by hiding Verizon from seeing that we are proudly rooted and some people have said the would sue Verizon. Please do whatever you can to fight against this.
Also motorola and htc are going to start doing the same.

This......can't be true........where did you learn of this?

Not surprising
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
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apDroid said:
Could you please link a source for this information? Thanks!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
+1: source please

P3droid announced it. When i get time ill link
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Here is the link from MyDroidWorld: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html#post65013
Here is the entire post:
Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers
Background
I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
Last edited by p3droid; 04-03-2011 at 09:44 AM.

I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get

necroscopev said:
I saw that on Droid Life yesterday and got sad. I am in between contracts now and am debating on getting the Thunderbolt which is wide open for root or waiting for the Bionic, which if it is like the Atrix, might not be rootable at all. Now with this info i am even more lost on which one to get
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Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers

What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.
I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.

Looks like it'll be the lg g2x for me. Or the Xperia arc if it's released in the U.S. with t-mobile's bands. After the merger, who knows

+1 same here man.
CaliTilt said:
What concerns me more is that can they or will they differentiate between a rooted phone custom ROM and rooted phone with the person tethering.
I am provided with a paid tethered phone from work with unlimited data plan. I do not use my personal phone to tether. I like the option of having custom ROMs so that I can have the most optimized phone available and not one slowed or battery life lost to bloatware or bugs in the kernal/radio.
Click to expand...
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Sent from my HTC Thunderbolt

This is horrible.

I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?

piperat said:
Dont get discouraged. Ive been on android since the og droid. These posts come out all the time. The thing they will attack is tethers. Which is understandable being that they are stealing.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
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No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.
U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.
Just my 2cents
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
thorpe24 said:
No its not stealing im paying,for unlimited data which I should be able to use how I want. Tethering or not. I dont download torrents and **** over cell data or anything just use it for gendral browsing and email same stuff I would do on the phone just on a larger screen.
U know how much a txt message costs to send but its 20 bucks a month for unlimited txting....its a ripoff look it up.
Just my 2cents
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
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Used my fascinating voodoo powers

Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?

nubsors said:
I find it hard to believe that the industry is spending all this time and money on something that is much easier to control from functionality that already exists. Take AT&T for example. They have tiered data plans. Really it doesn't matter if you tether because the more data you use, the more they charge. And that is what this is ultimately about. Money. If a phone company wants me to stop using tether, rather than putting time and effort into the phone, just limit the data. If I owned Verizon, this would totally be the route I would take my business. Forget spending money on locking down the customer. Offer a superior network at a premium price and let the customer go wild. You want to tether 15 devices? Go right ahead, I don't care how many devices you use, but you are limited to 3GB of data for a month and you will be charged exponentially more for each GB over that allotment. Is it really that hard to figure out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I read a while back, Verizon is going to tiered data plans, along with a handful of other carriers... I believe it was on xda, phandroid or android central that I had read multiple news articles about this...
piperat said:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
Used my fascinating voodoo powers
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Technically the data is still running to your phone, so it shouldn't matter. Plus I remember with 2.1 or something like that tethering was "suppose" to be free...
But this argument could go either way really... I see the view point from both sides and I think with a tiered data plan (over XX amount of gb of usage) should be enacted. Also maybe throttle the people downloading torrents or large amounts of data, and offer the tethering fee to unlock the full network speed to those people that download mass amounts of data and use tethering as their only or main source of internet (basically just a little rework of the system they have in place now). I mean I like to be able to tether when I'm on a roadtrip or don't have access to internet (mainly at work there is a dead spot for the wifi due to the radiology classes being inbetween our wifi antenna and the break room. This is caused by the lead lining in their walls). I don't download anything other than what little data I would be using on my phone normally to check some forums, facebook and the occasional email when I want to view those on a bigger screen due to eye and neck strain while eating my lunch. In all honesty, when you break it down, I use A TON less of data while I'm tethering than when I would use my phone as intended due to the tons of apps I run constantly with the constant updates. Now I know that is not the case for the majority of the people that use free tethering, but like the saying goes, why let a few bad apples ruin in for the rest (which is why I stated the throttling of large amounts of data being downloaded such as torrents...my cable internet provider already does this, so it can't be hard for them to implement).
This is not an attack on you personally if it came out that way, jsut a bunch of my scattered thoughts as I've running off of an average 1-2 hours of sleep per night for the past week and I have to be up for work in about 4 hours. And that's also my excuse if this sounds like complete gibberish. lol
racereddy20 said:
Is this limited to Motorola and Verizon only or all Verizon phones and devices?
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It says in the article...

piperat said:
You pay for unlimited data to your phone. If you want unlimited data on anything else you should pay the fee they ask for. Its their company they can charge what they want and for whatever they want. You signed the deal. They didnt force you to. If you dont like what they charge for their services find another company that will give you a better deal.
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Sure, it's their company and, therefore, their say, but the problem is that there are only 4 big telcos, soon to be 3 (AT&T-Mo, Verizon, and Sprint), and they're all in on it together. They all know that they can screw the consumer by charging extra for everything. Sprint's not as bad as the other 3, but they're not innocent either.
This is the same as how ISPs can theoretically do whatever they want as long as they tell us, but in practice it works out quite badly for the end user because you have about one or two choices of ISP where you live.
I'm not necessarily saying tethering should be free. But I'm DEFINITELY saying it's not worth $30 extra. A $5-10 add-on is all I see it worth being.

I think this will end up like the Iphone jailbreak.
Supreme Court said that the Purchaser OWNS the hardware and can do whatever the hell they want to it...F-Off Apple!
I think the same would happen...

Can detect root when you call VZW?

I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?

Bwangster12 said:
I called Verizon as I am having GPS issues. I was going to get a cert like new and while I wait, restore and send back non-working unit. When I called, the woman said she was going to run some diagnostics on her end (new to me) and said that she can detect that the software had been altered. She recommended that I reset the phone because if she put this through and it was rooted, I would be charged.
Are they able to tell your phone is rooted from their system without having it? Were they always able to do that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?

UrbanBounca said:
It wouldn't surprise me, but I can't imagine technology is that advanced, considering they are basically violating your privacy with a tool such as the one described. They could basically "tap" into your phone firmware/software whenever they want, and grab whatever information they want. I couldn't imagine, while possible, they would actually do it.
That said, you need to deal directly with LG. Verizon, along with many other carriers, will void your warranty at the flip of a dime because it's more income for them. I was an LG certified technician from 2005-2010, and while a technician, we did not void warranties for rooting unless we found evidence the firmware/software change interrupted the hardware, such as overclocking.
Once again, deal with LG directly. Verizon will snub you whenever they get the chance. Also, did I mention that most representatives have no idea what the hell they're talking about in the first place?
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She definitely str8 up said "it looks like your phone has been rooted" after she did her "diagnostics" when calling *611. SO... the tool exists.
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.

Bwangster12 said:
The problem I have with sending it to LG for fixing is that I have to pay for shipping it, wait a week or two without a phone while they fix it, etc. With VZW, I can restore to stock and then get a phone immediatley.
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Click to collapse
Well, that's your option. Did you restore it? Whether the representative can "detect" root or not, when they see a completely stock phone in retail, they'll probably replace it.
That said, you've got me curious as to whether Verizon can actually detect root over the phone. The research has started. . .
Edit: After about five minutes, it's apparently possible via a Verizon Remote Diagnostics app that they send out with updates. I definitely don't agree with it, and I'm glad I can say that with custom ROM's, that garbage is removed.
http://phandroid.com/2012/03/20/droid-charge-fp1-update-brings-verizon-remote-diagnostics-bug-fixes/

Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

MicroMod777 said:
Verizon knows at all times what software your running. I used to work as tech support for VZW. Than can also see how many apps u got, how much memory u used, etc. Its an invasion of of privacy. But what can we do?
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
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Yeah, she said to me over the phone, after saying she was going to run diagnostics... "you've got 40% memory available, etc etc."
I am running a custom rom though. I'm using Xdabbeb's 24A. Could that tool not been removed or hidden?

Just turn off radios when calling. Then say, "I don't know whats wrong... I have 4 bars of 4G"

Need a replacement for my Moto X. Called them up and the guy could tell my phone was rooted but said he would ship out regardless. 5 days later no confirmation of it being shipped and it hadn't arrived so I gave them a call. It said your certified replacement device has been denied because you are rooted.

So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

njstein said:
So I wonder if the steps to get a phone replaced would be to return to unrooted stock, then contact customer service? Or do they keep track of everything we do from the second we turn it on?
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.

It really is @UrbanBounca, but they'd probably tell you it's hidden in the agreement we all signed or the classic "don't like it, don't use our service". Only the big boys can get away with these kind of shenanigans.
Sent from my VS980 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I bought my phone outright for 399 or 499, I forget. I have a month to month contract on the UDP plan. Its my frigging phone. I'll do what I want with it. I understand when I root, I loose the warranty. I understand that if I'm tethering, I could get my wrist slapped.
Why call VZW for anything?
If your worried, don't root. If not, suck it up buttercups!!
I went thru the same thing with my Dodge Truck. I came to the conclusion that I am my own warranty station, plain and simple.
If your gonna do stuff to YOUR possessions, that might void a warranty, its not the manufactures fault, its yours, but YOU have the choice.
Of course VZW can see you phone, then they give all that info to the NSA for tax breaks

After a bit more research, I've found that they can only run diagnostics if (a) you're on ICS or above and (b) you have the MyVerizon app installed.
I don't have the MyVerizon app, and after hearing this, I won't be installing it.

Why would anyone use MyVerizon? It is certainly not NEEDED for anything productive.
Thanks Devs, from my LG G2

It'd definitely the my Verizon app. Even if you block superuser access to it they can still detect it. The customer service reps also make you install it when going through the process. I'm leaving Verizon next month after my last line is free from contract. 3 lines with unlimited data going up on eBay.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol

MicroMod777 said:
Verizon's Remote Diagnostics allows them to remotely control your device to fix things. I used to do this all the time. Usually its somebody that doesn't have a clue how to use android. So, I'd ask for permission, they'd get a pop up to put in a pin number I've give them, and i'd have total control of their phone, even view some fun stuff in their galleries!!! LOL Sometimes it was the only way to fix a problem than have granny go to a local verizon store.
....But before we even get permission to control a person's phone, on Verizon's side of things the Diagnostic tool lists everything about the phone. It doesn't matter what rom you have, it will show up. Anything in Settings they can mostly see.
If you want to avoid problems, best bet it to do a full stock restore, and run your phone for a few minutes before you call so their systems can see your full stock and not rooted.
Some Verizon Tech Reps are very anal, and will give you a hard time for anything, like if they are on a mission to discredit anybody that calls. Others, like I was mostly took your word for your problem. If I could fix it, I would, or I just send a replacement. I could care less if your rooted. I'd send anybody a phone. 80% of the time its a snobby business man, making $500k a year, mad as hell his phone freezes or his battery drains fast, and demands a replacement. I never argued with these kind of people, as they made the big bucks and I only made $40k a year. I even told one guy I didn't get paid enough to argue with him, and I'll send him a replacement no problem. lol
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The women I got kept saying to do a "factory reset" because if she put in the order for a CLNR that I would be charged if I was rooted. After I got off the call, I got the impression she was telling me to unroot my phone, restore to stock and then call back to place the order.
I had a custom rom, but it was stock based. I believe I did have the MyVerizon app on there.

I just rooted my 24A G2 and the moment I rebooted, I got a notification popup saying 'You have modified the system software' or something like that. So it is phoning home (no pun intended) and tripping a flag somewhere. I'm sure no one is looking at it unless you call, so before you call, flash back to 100% stock.

UrbanBounca said:
I'm now curious of the same question. I seriously can't believe they can see all that, even with a custom ROM. I mean, since this has been confirmed, couldn't this be a lawsuit of some sort? Am I the only person feeling this way? It's a blatant invasion of privacy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not an invasion of privacy. They are protecting themselves from all of the warranty fraud that happens when people who complain about their phones try to return them under warranty.
Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk 2

When it comes to having to get a new phone, Verizon will not give you one if you have altered the phone. However, let's say your headphone jack stopped working and you need to send it in to get it repaired. They HAVE to fix your phone, regardless if it's rooted or not. Why? Because the only way they can't do warranty repairs with your phone being rooted, is because they HAVE to prove that rooting directly caused the issue with the phone. This is per the Magnusson-Moss Act Chapter 50 of United States Code Section 2304, which states:
Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance). (d) Remedy without charge For purposes of this section and of section 2302© of this
title, the term "without charge" means that the warrantor may not assess the consumer for any costs the warrantor or his representatives incur in connection with the required remedy of a warranted consumer product. An obligation under subsection (a)(1)(A) of this section to remedy without charge does not necessarily require the warrantor to compensate the consumer for incidental expenses; however, if any incidental expenses are incurred because the remedy is not made within a reasonable time or
because the warrantor imposed an unreasonable duty upon the consumer as a condition of securing remedy, then the consumer shall be entitled to recover reasonable incidental expenses which are so incurred in any action against the warrantor.
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So how does that mean my warranty isn't voided? If you go out and buy a brand new G2, you root it and have no issues. No problems. Then a 6 weeks later, you plug in your headphones and all of a sudden, no sound is coming out of your head phones. Or the sound coming out of your speaker is crackling. Or your SIM/SD card door breaks off. Just because you rooted your phone, LG still has to honor the 1 year warranty pertaining to THOSE problems. They will STILL have to fix your headphone jack, THEY STILL have to install a new speaker and STILL have to give you a new SIM/SD card door.
Reference;
http://www.droidrzr.com/index.php/t...-users-may-have-about-rooting-and-warranties/

[Q] Tokenization for Payment

I read online that Apple Pay will use tokenization. I also read that Google Wallet does not use tokenization.
Is ATT's version (Softcard, formerly Isis) using tokenization?
This Softcard thing is a hit and miss for me. The website says certain stores work but did not for me. So far, it has only worked at one Baby's R Us for me...

de2000 said:
I read online that Apple Pay will use tokenization. I also read that Google Wallet does not use tokenization.
Is ATT's version (Softcard, formerly Isis) using tokenization?
This Softcard thing is a hit and miss for me. The website says certain stores work but did not for me. So far, it has only worked at one Baby's R Us for me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does not use tokenization, however the Softcard is going to be available on the iPhone 6. According to Softcard's website, this is how they protect your info.
"Your payment card credentials are stored in a special chip known as the Secure Element contained within your compatible smartphone. The Secure Element is isolated from your phone's main operating system and hardware, and is designed to allow access to authorized programs, like the Softcard app, to initiate a transaction. The app is accessed by a user-selected 4 digit PIN, adding another layer of protection. Additionally, a single call to your wireless carrier or visit to our website can disable the app."
I personally use Softcard and it works fine but you are correct that it only works at select locations. You can use the app to find places near you where it is accepted. The first place I ever tried was also Babies R Us. They are constantly adding locations and credit card companies that they are compatible with, so hopefully it will get better in the future. The app also features discounts and coupons that are based on your purchase history. Overall I like Softcard but I would like to see it accepted at more of the common stores I shop at and I wish it would allow me to use my bank card, which is currently not accepted. I hope this helped you out some!

Thank you for the reply.
So, technically, the Apple Pay is more secure since only tokens are given out. I guess that is the whole point... If Softcard, even though it uses the phone's secure element, doesn't use tokens, then full card info is still transmitted... That is an inferior protection than Apple Pay.
Walgreens is supposed to be Softcard compatible, but it didn't work for me.

de2000 said:
Thank you for the reply.
So, technically, the Apple Pay is more secure since only tokens are given out. I guess that is the whole point... If Softcard, even though it uses the phone's secure element, doesn't use tokens, then full card info is still transmitted... That is an inferior protection than Apple Pay.
Walgreens is supposed to be Softcard compatible, but it didn't work for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the reason they still transmit full card info is because they feel the companies they are contracted with are secure and wouldn't have credit card info retaining devices attached to steal the information from your card. Plus the NFC only works within 4cm of the phone and requires a PIN code to accept payment. Either payment method is still going to have your full credit card info used when taking it from your account and, like what happened with Target last year, that info is still not secure because the companies themselves are not fully secure. We're pretty much screwed either way but I personally wouldn't purchase a phone solely on the basis of the NFC payment methods available. Until the service is perfected and the majority of companies accept the payment methods, it is kind of a gimmick. But that's just my opinion...

The article I read was that the Tokenization process doesn't send full card information over the NFC. It sends a Token, then the token is transmitted to a third party to be translated to the card information which is then presented to your bank for payment. (the exact wording is different) So this means that the hackers can steal all the tokens they want from the merchants, but it won't matter.
Anyway, yes, I understand that I can't base on just that to buy a phone, but if this type of payment catches on, Softcard or Google Wallet will probably need to change their algorithm, and that may require a new secure device which our phones do not have now.
Just thinking... :laugh:

de2000 said:
The article I read was that the Tokenization process doesn't send full card information over the NFC. It sends a Token, then the token is transmitted to a third party to be translated to the card information which is then presented to your bank for payment. (the exact wording is different) So this means that the hackers can steal all the tokens they want from the merchants, but it won't matter.
Anyway, yes, I understand that I can't base on just that to buy a phone, but if this type of payment catches on, Softcard or Google Wallet will probably need to change their algorithm, and that may require a new secure device which our phones do not have now.
Just thinking... :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't aware that it wasn't full card information which would make it much more secure. I hope it does catch on because too many people are having their credit card information stolen and we need a secure system in place. The only problem is the merchants willingness to adopt these new procedures. Currently there is only a handful of retailers who have said they would be adopting Apple Pay. Now Apple being as popular as they are will make it more widely accepted I'm sure and it would make Softcard or Google Wallet rethink they're current procedures. Either way, I can only hope this is a step in the right direction for more secure payment methods!

How Easy is it To Get Around a Blacklisted EMEI?

Someone in my family had her Galaxy S9 stolen. She reported it to Verizon and they had the EMEI blacklisted with all carriers.
But how permanently attached is the EMEI number, can't you just wipe it/hack it?
How sophisticated does a thief have to be to circumvent it and make it work on a carrier again?
FYI: I am not asking anything about how to "get around a blacklisted EMEI" number nor do I want to hear about a single way of doing so.
I simply wanted to ask if blacklisting the EMEI is very effective against a phone thief?
We had a brand new S9 stolen, and reported it to Verizon, but they are just general customer service. So their claim that it can't be used by anyone in the US doesn't really mean much to me

halfhumble said:
Someone in my family had her Galaxy S9 stolen. She reported it to Verizon and they had the EMEI blacklisted with all carriers.
But how permanently attached is the EMEI number, can't you just wipe it/hack it?
How sophisticated does a thief have to be to circumvent it and make it work on a carrier again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can be done. We don't necessarily allow discussion of how to do it here for obvious reasons, but the guy would have to be fairly competent on a computer to go in and do that.
More than likely he'll sell it really cheap to someone or a shady outfit that does know how to do it.

orangekid said:
It can be done. We don't necessarily allow discussion of how to do it here for obvious reasons, but the guy would have to be fairly competent on a computer to go in and do that.
More than likely he'll sell it really cheap to someone or a shady outfit that does know how to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, that's what I figured, I thought there must be a way.

halfhumble said:
Okay, that's what I figured, I thought there must be a way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately yes. That is one thing iOS has over Android, I don't think it's possible to reprgoram an IMEI on an iPhone, so once it iCloud locks it really is a brick.
I still prefer Android though because of other pros.

orangekid said:
Unfortunately yes. That is one thing iOS has over Android, I don't think it's possible to reprgoram an IMEI on an iPhone, so once it iCloud locks it really is a brick.
I still prefer Android though because of other pros.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, didn't know that. Android manufactures should follow suit to reduce phone thefts.
Maybe it would have been better to NOT blacklist the EMEI when it's stolen, so that the thief or buyer activates it. Then report it like a month later to track who has it at the time.
If it's been sold, the police could work backwards from the for sale listing or emails with the buyer (Craigslist for example). Kinda elaborate though.....

halfhumble said:
Interesting, didn't know that. Android manufactures should follow suit to reduce phone thefts.
Maybe it would have been better to NOT blacklist the EMEI when it's stolen, so that the thief or buyer activates it. Then report it like a month later to track who has it at the time.
If it's been sold, the police could work backwards from the for sale listing or emails with the buyer (Craigslist for example). Kinda elaborate though.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah well it's not on the manufacturers really, I think it's just a limitation of AOSP and the way android works. Even KNOX can't prevent it or even working around FRP (which I had to do not too long ago for a legitimate forgotten password).
But yeah I think those types of thefts are probably too low importance for the cyber crime division to go thru those types of hoops. The only real possibility would have been to try to track the phone when turned back on, or put one of those invisible self installing tracker type apps in the SD card.
End of the day if you lose or phone or it gets stolen, you're pretty much SOL.

orangekid said:
Yeah well it's not on the manufacturers really, I think it's just a limitation of AOSP and the way android works. Even KNOX can't prevent it or even working around FRP (which I had to do not too long ago for a legitimate forgotten password).
But yeah I think those types of thefts are probably too low importance for the cyber crime division to go thru those types of hoops. The only real possibility would have been to try to track the phone when turned back on, or put one of those invisible self installing tracker type apps in the SD card.
End of the day if you lose or phone or it gets stolen, you're pretty much SOL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"self installing tracker type apps in the SD card." Didn't know that existed. Will look into that.

Why is there no discussion about the new FunkyHuawei 'kinda root' service?

FunkyHuawei has taken kind of a weird turn recently, starting with a total conversion from a 'credit' system to a subscription model. They released info about this on the 10th, on their Twitter account:
https://mobile.twitter.com/FunkyHuawei
A monthly fee... Hmm, I wonder why. Could it be that their new workaround to get 'root' on the Mate 20 Pro is a very fragile hack that doesn't actually unlock the bootloader, and can (and will) be disabled with *ANY* kind of update - be it firmware or otherwise? Yeah, that is what else they announced - that they have a working hack to 'kinda' get root on the Mate 20 Pro. It is detailed here:
https://funkyhuawei.club/root
A few things to note from this:
1) They seem to only be able to do it for 3 distinct models: LYA-L29, LYA-L09, LYA-L0C. Yay for Canadians, I guess?
2) They can (or will) *only* perform this service over remote control of your computer, via TeamViewer. That kinda makes me cringe, for too many reasons to list. It doesn't mean it is necessarily shady, but if given the option I would rather not go down that road.
3) The service is PRICEY. Even though they only announced it three days ago, the 'opening sale' is over after today, and will normally cost $190 USD. (It is on 'sale' at the moment for $165). This is pretty damned expensive, given the, er... 'transient' nature of the hack - and the obvious reliance on the subscription model as a result.
4) They are a little vague about this one, but even though they have also come up with a way to flash any firmware to any phone, even if the OEM bootloader unlock is grayed out, this hack seems to only work with specific versions of firmware. In other words, they are likely going to do a downgrade and they certainly aren't going to promise future proof. This... Isn't good.
5) They clearly state that any changes to anything will break the hack, and that is on YOU. In other words, they are hinting that even with the new subscription model you would need to pay full price for them to perform this remote service every time. Not only that, they are not responsible for anything going wrong, even during their initial attempt. That is standard practice for this kind of thing I guess, but at that price?
I can't see myself going for this. It sounds too flakey to be worth it. Honestly it looks like we just have to hold out hope that someone brute forces the encryption on the algorithm used to generate the bootloader unlock codes, or a solid working hack to get around it. FH is charging this kind of money because they are betting that there will never be any other way to get 'root' on a Mate 20 Pro, even though this smells a lot like the tethered jailbreaks for the iphones that were so fragile they could break if the wrong app was executed never mind rebooting the phone.
To anyone who goes this route, let us know how it works out. It sounds like once successful (and if you never flash the firmware) you ARE able to install a working SU/Magisk onto the phone yourself. They go out of their way to say that they will flash a TWRP recovery to the phone if you wish, but they won't put any root on it themselves. Again, probably a legal thing more than anything else.
I wish Huawei would just sell us bootloader unlock codes.

I think there's no discussion because of what you've already outlined and that, based on their recent track record, no one really trusts them.
The reason they'll only do it over Team Viewer is because they don't want to give you the tools in order to 1) force you to go back to them when it gets reverted by an update and 2) to stop the tools getting shared. If they connect to your PC then they can download what they need from their servers (securely using authentication) run it then clean up after themselves so as not to leave anything behind.
As you say, they're relying on there being no alternative and that M20P owners become desperate enough to go this route but I can't see that many going for it.

Grondah said:
The reason they'll only do it over Team Viewer is because they don't want to give you the tools in order to 1) force you to go back to them when it gets reverted by an update and 2) to stop the tools getting shared. If they connect to your PC then they can download what they need from their servers (securely using authentication) run it then clean up after themselves so as not to leave anything behind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, that sounds exactly like what they would do. We need someone to go through this and pull off a bit of a hack of their own and keep all the software/data they download onto your computer. I wonder how paranoid they are, surely they don't go so far as to run tools that wipe the free space left when they delete their own stuff? Meh, this sounds like kind of a flaky hack - so far. I don't have a problem with them charging for a good service but $200 is a LOT for something that can't survive basic firmware upgrades.

I am glad no one is talking about this, because they are a piece of crap. They only want to steal our money. 100$+ for crap hack... Ahahah.

Funkyhuawei are nothing but scammers.

Yes, Just scammers, First of all, we should not promote them on XDA.

Fully agree with what is written in the previous post and I would never go to this service.
What remains is to point at the real source of all this, namely Huawei and their refusal to allow bootloader unlocking. Why in all heavens is it not possible for them to do it like many other companies do? In the light of all this I sadly state that the Mate 20 Pro was my first and last Huawei phone !

s3axel said:
Fully agree with what is written in the previous post and I would never go to this service.
What remains is to point at the real source of all this, namely Huawei and their refusal to allow bootloader unlocking. Why in all heavens is it not possible for them to do it like many other companies do? In the light of all this I sadly state that the Mate 20 Pro was my first and last Huawei phone !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's always One Plus where you pay $700 for a $300 phone with an upgraded processor and have to use custom ROMs that always have bugs because Oxygen is an ineptly coded train-wreck.
Strange how nobody seems to mind that XDA has been shilling for One Plus for years.
But at least you can unlock the bootloader, right?

jhs39 said:
There's always One Plus where you pay $700 for a $300 phone with an upgraded processor and have to use custom ROMs that always have bugs because Oxygen is an ineptly coded train-wreck.
Strange how nobody seems to mind that XDA has been shilling for One Plus for years.
But at least you can unlock the bootloader, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always use a downgrade file that funkyhuawei customer service told you would work and have thay file brick your phone and be told 'its your fault the file didnt work' after paying out 150 in unlimited passes and bootloader unlock codes.
But you can always use your huawei warrenty and get a battered device returned to you right?

$190 for a "root but not root" solution is just daylight robbery. I dont think FH are welcome here anymore...

Ive done a paypal dispute. Sent paypal proof of huawei repair. Proof of email exchanges from funky that shows his files caused the damage. Hopefully will win but you never know.

NotEvenFinalForm said:
Ive done a paypal dispute. Sent paypal proof of huawei repair. Proof of email exchanges from funky that shows his files caused the damage. Hopefully will win but you never know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a quick update, I will have to look into it but I will pay FH $500 if they can install malware onto my pc that hijacks all my banking information as long as they can make my phone stop with the WORST AUTO-BRIGHTNESS NIGHTMARE EVAR. Like, seriously... Really?
Really?!

In my opinion a scam and scammers never last long, that's the story of funky huawei...good thing I didn't pay them for anything, day light robbers,

vtec303 said:
In my opinion a scam and scammers never last long, that's the story of funky huawei...good thing I didn't pay them for anything, day light robbers,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My paypal dispute failed. Even after proof of broken phone, repair, and being forced to purchase a bootloader code just to use my unlimited pass (bootloader was already unlocked he wouldnt switch my pass). Oh well

NotEvenFinalForm said:
My paypal dispute failed. Even after proof of broken phone, repair, and being forced to purchase a bootloader code just to use my unlimited pass (bootloader was already unlocked he wouldnt switch my pass). Oh well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok are you still within your 90 day paypal protection ?, if you are write them an email detailing everything and tell them their decision is against paypal buyer protection. You did not receive the level of service you were shown on funky (scammer) website and than your phone got messed up as well that's enough to appeal, try it and see what they say. Happened with me on a eBay purchase, they decided in favour of the seller, I wrote them they refunded me the full amount. Hope this helps, cheers.

vtec303 said:
ok are you still within your 90 day paypal protection ?, if you are write them an email detailing everything and tell them their decision is against paypal buyer protection. You did not receive the level of service you were shown on funky (scammer) website and than your phone got messed up as well that's enough to appeal, try it and see what they say. Happened with me on a eBay purchase, they decided in favour of the seller, I wrote them they refunded me the full amount. Hope this helps, cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Itd 180 days protection. Yes I have been messaging them further screenshots etc to try get the decision overturned.
Edit paypal are replying with the same message at every turn now.

NotEvenFinalForm said:
Itd 180 days protection. Yes I have been messaging them further screenshots etc to try get the decision overturned.
Edit paypal are replying with the same message at every turn now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ohh ok, I guess I got lucky than, try sending an email to someone higher up, might help, worth a try mate,

vtec303 said:
ohh ok, I guess I got lucky than, try sending an email to someone higher up, might help, worth a try mate,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do u have an email add for anyone higher up?

NotEvenFinalForm said:
Do u have an email add for anyone higher up?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
send you a private message, cheers.

vtec303 said:
send you a private message, cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was unable to post it privately but heres what I said.