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Hi guys,
I've had my X1 (Vodafone UK) for quite a while now and on the whole i'm very impressed. The only big let down has been the camera.
Recording videos is fine but when I take a picture, 99% of the time it comes out blurry. If someone moves an inch in the photo then that person comes out blurry.
I flashed my ROM yesterday to use Itje's Touch-IT 4.5 and there is different camera software included. I was hoping this would make a difference but it doesn't.
My question is does anyone know if this is a software issue or a hardware issue? (and if anyone else has the same problem as me?)
If this is indeed a software issue, does anyone have any tips or fixes they have found?
Thanks in advance.
Nav
The camera seems fine to me, although it does blur from movement. I just you just need to make sure everyone stays still.
My old N95 was worse, the pictures were blurry regardless of movement. The camera just never focused properly.
Make sure you choose the appropriate profile (On original ROM). Default is automatic. Set it manually to whatever you are recording, for example portrait for people. You might also consider sport event, I think this might help you with the blur. One more advice: Make sure not to move the camera UNTIL you are sure the picture's been taken. The shutter sound is too early.
Try setting the phone down and using the self-timer. The X1 camera has an extremely slow shutter speed which makes it sensitive to tiny shakes. It could be that you have shaky hands and the mere act of pressing the shutter makes the entire right side of the phone shake.
If that's the case, you can set the self-timer to 2 seconds, press the shutter, then keep still until it takes the picture. That way your squeezing the shutter won't interfere in the capture. It also helps if you prop your elbows onto a surface (like a table) or onto your torso to keep your arm (and your hands) still.
I've found that I actually take better pictures with my 3.2 MP slow Xperia X1i than with my 5.0 MP Cyber-shot K850i. Of course, both of them are a big FAIL when compared to my Nikon D90
oops. double post
sports scene should solve your blur.. but it will be darker than usual
Does your recorded video look crap too? I think it's because of the low bitrate, but when I am moving the phone while recording, all I can see is coloured squares... I use the latest camera from R3A and it is set on "high framerate" in VGA widescreen. Oh, and the sound is terrible...
My record looks pretty good but that may be down to the ROM i'm using.
I tend to try and stay as steady as I can and when i'm taking a picture of something that isn't a person it tends to be crystal clear. It's just when I take a picture of a person, if they move slightly or if I move slightly.
I will try the timer setting, as I do sometimes struggle with the button and probably end up moving the phone slightly.
Why would SE release a camera which is SO sensitive to movement? It's on a mobile phone, movements are expected here and there. I never used to get any blur on my SE Walkman phone and thats 2mp!
Thanks for the tips guys!
yep, it's terrible for movement. i'm fairly sure it's the hardware, but you never know.
best solution is to change to "Sports" mode. this takes the photo faster (so less blurring) but at a cost (photos will appear darker, to the point that darkish scenes will become black).
I find it hard to use the camera especially the camera button at the side of the phone. Its very hard to press down after focusing and because its hard to press it caused the photo to become blurry.
If I use the keypad center button for picture it become blurry too because the focus aint that good. See the picture below..
Picture 1 - Using keypad auto focus Image seems blurry
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Picture 2 - Manual focus using the side camera button.
I only can say that im disappointed with the speaker and camera..
Hope that the next rom update can fix or at least improve the camera..
As for the speaker, at least I can still install SRS WOW HD and do some volume hack..
The camera... Nothing can be done.. T_T!
dancemacabre said:
I find it hard to use the camera especially the camera button at the side of the phone. Its very hard to press down after focusing and cause the photo to become blury.
If I use the keypad center button for picture it become blury too because the focus aint that good. See the picture below..
Picture 1 - Using keypad auto focus [Image seems blury zzz]
Picture 2 - Manual focus using the side camera button.
I only can say that im disappointed with the speaker and camera..
Hope that the next rom update can fix or at least improve the camera..
As for the speaker, at least I can still install SRS WOW HD and do some volume hack..
The camera... Nothing can be done.. T_T!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the second pic looks good.
have u got the new camera software from the r3 rom ( i have but have not noticed any improvement in quality of pic)
Ganondolf said:
the second pic looks good.
have u got the new camera software from the r3 rom ( i have but have not noticed any improvement in quality of pic)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, im just using rom 1.03.931.10 software R2AA010 Generic_uk
Lucky shot for picture 2.. sometimes i tried more than 10 times to take a good shot but all come out blurry.. Im pissed and i just give up.. *vomit blood*
dancemacabre said:
Nope, im just using rom 1.03.931.10 software R2AA010 Generic_uk
Lucky shot for picture 2.. sometimes i tried more than 10 times to take a good shot but all come out blurry.. Im pissed and i just give up.. *vomit blood*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know they have improved it on the r3 rom but as i never used it much cant really tell the difference
Ganondolf said:
i know they have improved it on the r3 rom but as i never used it much cant really tell the difference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, hope that r3 rom user out there can give some answer on this
Its not rubish on my X1i, its loads better than the se 8.1 cybershot phone.
hey
m using xperia stock rom uk r1a0017
but m not facing any prob with xperia camera
click the link to see the pix
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/424/dsc0888.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7125/dsc0138i.jpg
I'm not happy too using the X1 camera. Photos even in Sport mode are shaked. Till now I've made about 300 photos and can say that maybe 10 are ok. My previous SE k800i was much better. The comparison of this 2 phones is like trying to compare k800i vs my Canon 20D.
About making movies - this sucks, really sucks. In good light, VGA mode and framerate set to high the movie is so laggy and pixelized that really can't watch them. I saw that they are almost 30 fps and same speed in playback mode on my laptop. So should be good. Must try to save them to phone memory, maybe this will be the solution. Perhaps SDHC is to slow?
Hope someone will find fix for it....
dancemacabre said:
I find it hard to use the camera especially the camera button at the side of the phone. Its very hard to press down after focusing and because its hard to press it caused the photo to become blurry.
If I use the keypad center button for picture it become blurry too because the focus aint that good. See the picture below..
Picture 1 - Using keypad auto focus Image seems blurry
Picture 2 - Manual focus using the side camera button.
I only can say that im disappointed with the speaker and camera..
Hope that the next rom update can fix or at least improve the camera..
As for the speaker, at least I can still install SRS WOW HD and do some volume hack..
The camera... Nothing can be done.. T_T!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm very disappointed with the camera especially since I came from the Sony Ericcson K750 which had an awesome camera.
I can live with it though as I don't take that many photos, and they're usually landscapes which reduces the blurryness problem...btw
THE CAKE IS A LIE!
(Yeah i'm sorry but i had to do it...didn't I? Didn't I!)
It's Tiramisu!!
Another attempt.. The lobster !!
The second picture seem blur.. and im not really happy with the first picture either When I manually focus using the side button the camera focus on the little rocks instead of the lobster.. What can I say...
D-fens said:
..
About making movies - this sucks, really sucks. In good light, VGA mode and framerate set to high the movie is so laggy and pixelized that really can't watch them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happened to me too.. Every movement of people just blurry.. Cant even see their face..
I have a Touch Pro but I think fundamentally we have the same issues and generally the same solutions. Take a look here: http://www.fuzemobility.com/decrease-the-blur-of-your-camera-really/
To decrease the blur try to toggle the brightness setting to something a few notches lower (effectively changing the shutter speed) and there are also tips in that link to changing the delay in taking the photo. Again, I can't test these on an X1 but a lot of the X1 and Touch Pro elements are identical because of HTC. Hope it helps
We discuss ISOCELL camera technology and new camera features, photos shared on the internet, and Your user photos and videos here.
Features of the Galaxy S5 ISOCELL camera unit:
15.87 MP (5312x2988) 16:9 aspect ratio Samsung BSI ISOCELL sensor
PDAF (phase detection auto focus) for fast auto focus
4k video recording, [email protected]
Live HDR phoro and video preview (Rich Tone available for video)
Software image stabilization
Selective focus
Drama mode
I got my hands on the S5 thx to the guys at XXL GSM, so here's my review:
Since smartphones took over compact cameras as the most popular tool for daily photography, each manufacturer is trying to create it's own camera tech. Sony put the metal wiring behind photo diodes to capture more photons (BSI), HTC introduced the large UltraPixels, and Nokia came up with the large sensor 41MP PureView tech with OIS. Samsung only slightly adjusted it's sensor size (1/2.6") and pixel count (16MP with 1.12um sensor pixels) for it's 5th Galaxy S phone, but with a new sensor manufacturing method, they are introducing higher dynamic range and better color reproduction, in what they call "3D-Backside Illuminated Pixel with Front-Side Deep-Trench Isolation (F-DTI) and Vertical Transfer Gate", or because they're physically isolating pixels to decrease light crosstalk, "ISOCELL". For faster focus they also added a phase detection auto-focus layer (PDAF) delivering ~0.3s focal speed, plus image processing capable of live HDR and HDR video recording. Add sensor-level digital zoom in video, meaning you don't zoom into the 1080p picture anymore but use all the 16MPs, and the S5s new 16:9 sensor delivers a much needed step-up in camera technology.
In good light conditions the S5 rivals any rival phone in snappiness, white balance, color gamut and focal accuracy, also offering healthy amounts of details for print quality images. HDR works seamlessly and sometimes you can't tell it was on, only you realize little to no detail is lost to clipping, it works darn fast too, albeit with some loss of details. Facing directly into sunlight, and dynamic range stays solid without lens issues, color errors or aberrations, and noise levels are kept at a minimal. Jpg compression is slightly above ideal as seen in the smallest details, on the other hand, speeds are excellent, tap-to-focus and tap-to-shot is almost instantaneous, and the app opens and finishes the first shot from cache in about 1.5s, 2,5s from a locked screen. The S5 can take about 7 shots per second in a photo burst (long tap on the photo icon).
Check my full size daylight album with EXIF info here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157643999248563/
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In lower light conditions, as most small sensor smartphones, the S5 is a mixed bag, but an improvement in color reproduction, focal accuracy and snappiness over the S4. Missing are the optical image stabilization (OIS) and longer than 1/17s exposure times (Camera Zoom FX can do 1/10). The Photography app ranges from ISO40 to the very soft ISO2000 shots with manual setup available between ISO100 and ISO800 (Zoom FX does ISO1600 too). In dark conditions, if LED flash not used, you can turn on image stabilization (former night mode) to battle noise, and a multi-exposure of about 3-4 seconds (hold the phone steady) compiles an improved low-light image. HDR works too (with more noise on the sides), and while movement requires stability turned off with higher ISO or flash, optionally Sport Mode, overall I like the accurate color reproduction, which is a problem for many rivals. My biggest criticism besides OIS is the lack of 1/5 1/2 1s and other longer exposure times and manual control for it, at ISO100 with a 1 second exposure the ISOCELL sensor could capture much more details, and since the Lumias have OIS, they are better than the S5 in this category.
Full-size low-light album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157643997683364/
The S5 works well in macro mode too with tight DOF, full-size shots with EXIF here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157643999323404/
Besides setting up ISO, exposure, white balance, resolutions, timer, voice control etc. from the menu, there are Samsung's various camera MODEs. Selective Focus shoots multiple focal shots of the same subject, and you can later select the preferred focal point - foreground, background or both - algorithm is not perfect. In Shot and more the camera takes a series of images before a fixed background, and allows you to choose Best photo, Best face, Drama mode to record multiple phases of a movement on one image, delete unwanted stuff with Eraser and add motion blur via Panning shot. The Shot and more editing menu comes up after taking the shot, later you can access it from the Studio.
Beauty face lets you play around with skin tones and stuff, Virtual tour is like moving around in Street View: you turn and walk around taking several shots in a house for example, and later revisit it virtually moving around with arrows. Dual shot places both camera images on a single shot, Animated photo creates a gif, Sound and shoot allows you to add a voice comment to your shot and Sport mode uses high ISO and wide focus not to miss any fast movement, have this one on with kids around. There are two Panorama modes, regular 2D one with horizontal movement, and the Nexus-like Surround shot that does 3D photosphere, with some inconsistency. Trick for a good sphere is to hold the camera lens at the same spot and move the phone/yourself around it.
Full gallery here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157644000900844/
The Samsung Gallery is quite advanced app, you get several views of you single images, folders and multi-folders with previews, and Air View helps checking content without tapping on it, hovering over with your fingers. Studio gives you a whole lot of options for editing, besides Photoshop-like functions and manipulations, you can make photo montages, trim videos, render slideshows and edit Shot and more mode photos.
Video recording is a great joy on the S5. Sound is clear (though I made the mistake of covering one of the stereo mics due to hand stabilization), software stabilization is quite usable and HDR is good, as well as recording in 60fps for smooth motion, though these are limited to 1080p resolution maximum. There's fast motion up to 8x and slow motion recording down to 1/8 speed without sound, but the real gem is recording the the marvelous 3840x2160 or 4k resolution, which is 4 times the pixel count of 1080p. Eventually we'll get 4k TVs and monitors, heck, tablets and phones come out with 2k/4MP displays nowadays which is almost there, so why not record in 4k right now? Just check the frame captures I posted below to see the details and low level of mp4 compression, you could print some of these frames. The trade-off is the lack of HDR, stabilization and 60FPS at this resolution, and a 5 minute clip limit since each 60 seconds recorded at 47MBit/s takes up around 350MBs. Yeah... In lower light you obviously lose some of the gorgeous details and noise comes up, but it's still quite nice.
60FPS sample 1: https://app.box.com/s/l5fwiyo0rfsm1wj2q328
60FPS sample 2: https://app.box.com/s/o1vlbzgjcel1pslw9nkv
Single frames: (click)
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-12-00c0j9q.jpg
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-17-142fjwg.jpg <--- 4x zoom!
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-17-146ekni.jpg
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-12-00aek89.jpg
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-17-1486j80.jpg
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-17-14tjk0l.png
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-17-14lokom.jpg
http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-04-12-00kyj81.jpg
More frame captures here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157644093280315/
Conclusion
Overall the S5 camera is highly satisfying in this reviewer's option. I did not find a single case when white balance, saturation or exposure was off, operation is fast unless you have stability mode on in low-light, focus and dynamic range definitely improved, and you can choose among many video and photo options. Where's the biggest step forward? In consistency. Out of 10 shots you'll get good ones at a far better rate than before.
Obviously low light is the S5's weaker point, with less light you get softer images and need flash or high ISO to capture movement, but where you lose details to some rivals, you gain color accuracy, so Samsung's ISOCELL is getting there. Next stop should be OIS, but one thing they could do right now: allowing longer than 1/17s exposure times so we can set low ISO value and capture more dark details. Maybe the future Google camera API will open this option. Overall however, I think the shots speak for themselves: the S5 is a very capable shooter with some room for improvement, and you'll be able to pull many print-ready shots over your long usage. Just be aware: as good as the S5 battery is, things like 100% screen brightness and 4k recording kills the 2800mAh quite quickly, bring a spare battery or power bank.
Check the full gallery with EXIF info here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/
Tips and tricks
- Do multiple shots of the same subject, a good momentum or less handshake can later be selected out of the many
- HDR is one tap away, so do one with and without it, some shots look better with high contrast, others benefit from HDR
- In low light with movement, you have to use LED flash without stability, cause high ISO and longer shutter will not capture these moments with good detail
- In low light with stationary subject however, use stability, optionally LED, no HDR cause of noise. With enough lights you may try using ISO800 with darker results but more details. Much will depend on the amount of available light
- use voice commands to avoid tap-shake, hold the phone steady with two hands, optionally use a monopod
- try and use the photo Modes, some will do fancy images, others come handy like Sport mode to capture fast movement
- between Panorama and Surround Shot, I prefer the latter, cause it captures surroundings vertically too, so result won't be an overly wide image. The trick with photospheres is to not be close to the surrounding objects and have the camera lens in the absolute middle in space, and move the phone and yourself around that spot as the take the sphere images
- try alternative apps if they are better for you: CameraZoom FX, Focal, Google Camera etc. Camera Zoom FX allows 1/10 exposure and ISO1600 manually
- be aware not to cover the top and bottom microphones during video shoot. Best image quality comes from 4k, but image stabilization, 60FPS or HDR only works with 1080p, again best to test all these and later use the one best suited for you or the scene
- use AirView in Gallery, and try out Studio options for your recordings
- bring a power bank with longer photography tours cause a lot of camera usage and 100% brightness eats the battery quickly
Let's analyze! The first two striking qualities of the ISOCELL samples are: 1) eye popping wide dynamic range with rich colors, and 2) relative high noise and softness of the picture. I guess that's the tradeoff here.
Saturation is quite high yet not unrealistic, it simply looks to capture a wide color range, especially impressive in the Angry Birds photo inside. White balance is spot on. As far as Rich Tone (HDR) shots goes, it's pretty impressive as well, look how much more detail is presented without overprocessing the image. On the other hand, noise and softness is always present on these shots, even at low ISO, PureView and Exmor technology seems well ahead in per pixel sharpness. More to come.
men.. you are sure that it photo's from SGS5 ?
Pako7 said:
men.. you are sure that it photo's from SGS5 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. :good:
BTW, it appears that selective focus takes 4 photos or at least renders 4 photos, as samples played around with that setting have ~16MB size instead of the regular 4. So I guess the file can be shared and focus changed afterwards, wouldn't mind Google+ and other services allowing you to choose focus after upload.
BoneXDA said:
Yup. :good:
BTW, it appears that selective focus takes 4 photos or at least renders 4 photos, as samples played around with that setting have ~16MB size instead of the regular 4. So I guess the file can be shared and focus changed afterwards, wouldn't mind Google+ and other services allowing you to choose focus after upload.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but why you delete all info? including EXIF.. It's not secret
Again its not isocell ( probably they saving it for Note 4 or GS6 )
no new flash ( same old led flash )
indoors photos still look like oil paint -->> no OIS indoors and low light images will suck
overall i think it will be like most of Galaxy flagships : great images when there is enough light but when there is not the image will suck
I think it is ISOCELL technology, the photos on PhoneArena are really not bad at and higher 5s z1.
yahyoh said:
Again its not isocell ( probably they saving it for Note 4 or GS6 )
no new flash ( same old led flash )
indoors photos still look like oil paint -->> no OIS indoors and low light images will suck
overall i think it will be like most of Galaxy flagships : great images when there is enough light but when there is not the image will suck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is the 16MP ISOCELL sensor they developed.
Pako7 said:
but why you delete all info? including EXIF.. It's not secret
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, sorry about EXIF, I think that's the upload site doing, not sure why.
BoneXDA said:
Oh, sorry about EXIF, I think that's the upload site doing, not sure why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
please re-upload a few full shot on other fileshare
These are apparently the official Samsung Galaxy S5 samples, normal vs. HDR
source, full size: http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2014/mwc-samsung-galaxy-s5.shtml
Skander1998 said:
It is the 16MP ISOCELL sensor they developed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why they didn't mention anything about it in the unpacking event ? even the official spec didnt say anything about isocell
all i can see some news writers bs
yahyoh said:
why they didn't mention anything about it in the unpacking event ? even the official spec didnt say anything about isocell
all i can see some news writers bs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They just started mass production for the 16MP ISOCELL sensor.
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=34630
The article also mentions the new octa for the octa variant for the S5, also beginning mass production.
Samsung doesn't mention specific hardware specs anymore.
4k video sample in dim light:
yahyoh said:
why they didn't mention anything about it in the unpacking event ? even the official spec didnt say anything about isocell
all i can see some news writers bs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Samsung never EVER goes technical about sensor tech, check their track record, they don't.
It is a vastly different sensor to the Exmors however, closer to Samsung own's Galaxy Cameras (softness of image, noise), but far superior in color balance and dynamic range, which is exactly what ISOCELL is all about. Add that announcers did show off new camera HW features and Android Authority claims ISOCELL was confirmed to them, so it's almost certainly that tech.
So where do you get your information that it isn't?
BoneXDA said:
All right, new stills from GSM Arena, normal vs. rich tone (HDR), direct linking so EXIF info should be included. Level of details don't justify 16MPs, but color reproduction and HDR quality is quite awesome!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I saw this "photo".. It's not include full EXIF (view software version - Adobe Photoshop Ligthroom )
Pako7 said:
Thanks, but I saw this "photo".. It's not include full EXIF (view software version - Adobe Photoshop Ligthroom )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use this site, just copy image link:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?
BoneXDA said:
Use this site, just copy image link:
http://regex.info/exif.cgi?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm.. you don't understand
I know how will view full_exif. Full EXIF will be for example such as (sorry by russian lang)
Pako7 said:
hmm.. you don't understand
I know how will view full_exif. Full EXIF will be for example such as (sorry by russian lang)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure I understand you.
GSM Arena samples show EXIF info just fine.
BoneXDA said:
I'm not sure I understand you.
GSM Arena samples show EXIF info just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok..
ps.. View snapshots from gsmarena, I found that on MWC_devices used camera modules :
16 Mp
ISP - Qualcomm
Sensor manufacturer - Samsung LSI
Release date - January 2014
Manufacturer of the module - is not yet known
BoneXDA said:
I'm not sure I understand you.
GSM Arena samples show EXIF info just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what he means, the S4 pic shows which fw the device was running, while the S5 pic shows Photoshop.
Hello,
i just got my hands on the Z3 Compact and took it out to test it on a sunny day.
Back home i noticed that the picture quality is really bad in auto mode!
I made a quick comparison picture to my old phone: a Xiaomi Mi2 (not the S Model) with 8m Camera.
The picture shows the text quality of the Xperia Z Ultra Power Pack which is the best example i can do now.
The automode settings are: ISO-800, F/2, 1/50 Sec, no flash
The Mi2 automode settings are: ISO-488, 1/16 Sec (no data on the F), no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/neuebitmapoksb8.png
And here the same with manual mode and a lower ISO (100 instead of 800 that was used in auto mode):
The complete settings were: ISO-100, F/2, 1/8 Sec, no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0099emqqy.jpg
Heres another example of a picture i took when i was outside (without zoom, i just cut away some parts to make it smaller):
The automode settings here: ISO-50, F/2, 1/320sec, no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0036lujf6.jpg
Any idea why automode causes such very bad picture quality? Any ideas on how to improve it?
Thank you for help!
Why bother so much about the auto mode? You can take such great pictures in manual mode when you play with the settings. In the end auto mode will never be great, because it does what it says: auto mode, it adjusts the settings to what it thinks is best in each situation.
Playing with the manual mode will also give you more knowledge of basic photography.
Sent from my D5803
Auto mode became better over time on the Z1C, I guess they'll keep improving it. Dunno if they made a step back here.
Dsteppa said:
Why bother so much about the auto mode? You can take such great pictures in manual mode when you play with the settings. In the end auto mode will never be great, because it does what it says: auto mode, it adjusts the settings to what it thinks is best in each situation.
Playing with the manual mode will also give you more knowledge of basic photography.
Sent from my D5803
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Auto mode will always be handy.. no one wants to mess with settings most of the times.. its a phone camera and if i want manual controls i would pick a dslr. Thats why iphone wins in camera department. Take it out and snap a pic instantly with great output. Even on my galaxy s5 i take pictures on auto and i havent seen anyone setting things up manually each and every time to take a damn photo
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo. Oversampling is also why the Z3 has a small amount of "lossless" zoom. (ever tried "zooming" with other phone cameras? It usually leaves you with a terrible blob of digital noise)
As with any automatic post-processing, there are pros and cons. The truth is, the software doesn't really know what you're taking a picture of, so it tries to give it's best guess on correcting exposure, colour, noise, etc. The result you're seeing in the auto-mode photo is a result of heavy post-processing (Noise Reduction), bad focus, and camera shake.
The reason your "manual" photo is better is because manual mode drops the post-processing. It also looks like you were able to hold the camera steadier for the manual shot.
"Auto" mode is far from perfect, but it will often save you more times than you know. Over time, you'll learn the strengths and weaknesses of "auto mode", and you'll know when you need to switch to Manual for the better shot. Auto mode can also be easily improved upon via software updates.
PS: A little trick I use to minimize camera shake while taking a photo is to set a quick 2 second self timer. This will allow you time to press the shutter button and then stabilize the phone for minimal "camera shake"
I have read the z3 Compact camera is great, great, great...but yeah I have been grossly underwhelmed by the auto mode. The auto mode is THE mode...sure have a manual mode if you want...if you have time. But I use my phone for quick snaps...QUICK being the operative word. I want to pull it out aim and shoot. My iphone5 took very acceptable pictures. The z3 compact has shown me grainy, bland looking shots in auto.
I don't get why auto mode isn't the most important mode for designers. It's a phone...not a camera...so make the auto mode work
Yeah, camera is definitely underwhelming. That being said though, it's better than most. My Moto X took absolutely horrid shots for the most part.
Crewville96 said:
Yeah, camera is definitely underwhelming. That being said though, it's better than most. My Moto X took absolutely horrid shots for the most part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming from 2 years on the iphone5...I was under the impression that camera technology was pretty well mastered across the board. iphone makes it look easy. There's even an annoying lag between pressing the button and the shot being taken on the Z3...what the hell is up with that?
Eclypz said:
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my z3c is still on the way. I have a question. Will the 8MP pictures I take in Manual mode be oversampled as well?
Because the sensor is still 20MP and if I manually adjust it to take only 8MP pictures what advantage do I have in having a sensor that is 20MP? I never print photos. Only watch it on my phone, laptop or my LED tv which is 1080p and 50" screen. I don't want photos that are too big in file size unless it is benefiting me in some sense other than for the purpose of printing and viewing in very large resolutions. I see that oversampling in auto mode is benefiting from a 20MP sensor but is that the case if I take 8MP pics in manual mode?
coolmalayalee said:
Well, my z3c is still on the way. I have a question. Will the 8MP pictures I take in Manual mode be oversampled as well?
Because the sensor is still 20MP and if I manually adjust it to take only 8MP pictures what advantage do I have in having a sensor that is 20MP? I never print photos. Only watch it on my phone, laptop or my LED tv which is 1080p and 50" screen. I don't want photos that are too big in file size unless it is benefiting me in some sense other than for the purpose of printing and viewing in very large resolutions. I see that oversampling in auto mode is benefiting from a 20MP sensor but is that the case if I take 8MP pics in manual mode?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By selecting 8MP in manual mode, all you're doing is resizing the photo from 20MP (post processing). The sensor will always capture at its full resolution.
If you know you only want a 8MP photo, there is a small benefit in resizing the photo at the phone:
The first benefit is obviously file size, but before I get into the second reason, I need to explain something first: A picture that has been converted to JPG is considered to be post processed. The compression that the JPG engine performs means your image loses details and thus has been altered. I know I said above that Manual mode means the image isn't processed, but I really only said that for the sake of explaining things easier. The average user does not consider JPG compression as post processing and they probably don't care to know. The truth is, unless Sony allows us to capture images in RAW format, the act of converting all our images to JPG means our images are all being post processed whether we like it or not. The difference between manual and auto mode is really about "how much" post processing occurs. In manual, Sony is most likely just compressing to JPG (and probably lens distortion correction but I won't get into that now) , and not applying corrections like noise reduction.
As for how it may be beneficial to resize at the phone; JPG compression is usually the final step in post processing. So by resizing at the phone, the theory is the image is captured in [email protected] > resized to 8MP while still in RAW format > compressed to JPG.
This means you benefit from the photo being resized before it is "post processed". In theory, this method should leave you with a higher quality 8MP photo versus resizing from a computer. Resizing from a computer means you're applying post processing to an already "post processed" photo.
For the average user, 8MP is more than enough, however, this is not to say all phone cameras should come in 8MP. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between an image captured by a 8MP sensor vs being captured by a 20MP sensor and then resized to 8MP. The 20MP sensor can capture much more detail with proper/sufficient lighting.
@wooki (OP):
Especially the first comparison "Xperia Z Ultra Power Pack", the one you made with the Z3C is nothing but blurred. So what is it you're trying to show/compare? I mean, yes, may the Z3C doesn't come with the best camera on the market, and yes, the "Auto mode" does not always provide the best results. Not really sure you're into photography or not, but what can be expected from a lens not even half the size of a fingernail? Not too much, right?! Get an SLR with decent lenses and a full frame sensor if you need more/better.
However, the attached fotos were one of the first ones I made with the Z3C (in Auto Mode) and think it's quite ok. No processing, just resized them.
@sxtester
I was comparing my Z3C with my old phone (a 2 year old Xiaomi Mi2) which seems to have a very good auto mode. Was just asking if i was the only one who has had a bad automode experience and if someone knows how to improve it.
How do your pictures look like without resizing?
As i'm owning a WQHD Screen all my automode pictures look very bad!
I don't want to set up the manual mode every time i want to take a picture, this phone has a shutter button to make fast pictures and with the setup phase i lose time even if manual mode gives me excellent pictures.
Eclypz said:
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo. Oversampling is also why the Z3 has a small amount of "lossless" zoom. (ever tried "zooming" with other phone cameras? It usually leaves you with a terrible blob of digital noise)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The manual mode uses oversampling as well, if you select a lower resolution. I've compared an auto mode shot with a manual mode shot of the same scene, and both were equal in terms of details and noise. The main difference was that the auto mode shot looks far worse because it tends to use that horrible HDR which just washes out the photo and ruins the contrast to near non-existence. I find that "multi" light metering mode, selectable in manual mode, gives far better results than HDR on this phone.
---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------
Auto:
http://i.imgur.com/er38iZn.jpg
Manual:
http://i.imgur.com/Oqwl3KE.jpg
---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------
Furthermore, the pictures from this phone's camera would look a lot better if Sony used a better algorithm for their oversampling.
Here is a comparison between a 100% crop of an image taken using Sony's oversampling (8mp) (former attachment) and a 100% crop of a photo taken at 20mp, and then downsampled to the 8mp dimensions using Irfanview (latter attachment):
I agree....Sony's software is lacking compared to everybody else. Auto mode seems kind of hit or miss. Their camera sensors are excellent, as I believe the iPhone uses a Sony sensor, but the difference being Apple is able to process better looking images with their software. I also have a iPhone 5s, and I must agree that 7/10 times, I'll get a better looking image from the iPhone. In terms of capturing details, i think Z3C is better (as expected), but all my images from the Z3C are on the "red" side when shooting in auto-mode. In the end, the iPhone comes out with the better looking photo because I'd much rather have better colour re-production over slightly more detail that you wouldn't even notice unless you had a photo to compare against.
I still think the Z3C's camera is on par with the best from Samsung's Galaxy S5 and LG's G3 (Sony sensor). It's way better than my old HTC One M8's "ultrapixel".
On the Android side of things, I think Z3C is still top 3, and Top 5 in the Smartphone world (iPhone and Lumia above it).
wooki said:
@sxtester
How do your pictures look like without resizing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@wooki:
Here you go, all unedited made in Auto Mode:
http://imgur.com/uMiM0Sh
http://imgur.com/0mYsf5U
http://imgur.com/vJ32fjT
http://imgur.com/8g7oJD7
degraaff said:
Here is a comparison between a 100% crop of an image taken using Sony's oversampling (8mp) (former attachment) and a 100% crop of a photo taken at 20mp, and then downsampled to the 8mp dimensions using Irfanview (latter attachment):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony's approach looks way better because it doesn't blur that heavily. If I want to blur away all the details, I can still do that myself.
This is a bit off-topic, but I don't really want to start a new thread just to ask such a silly question.
I've been playing with the camera app some more and is there seriously no "rule of thirds grid" in Sony's Camera app? I often like to use the grids to assist in making sure my shot is straight.
Iruwen said:
Sony's approach looks way better because it doesn't blur that heavily. If I want to blur away all the details, I can still do that myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? Sony's approach is full of over sharpening artifacts and -auras, doesn't look better at all IMO.
One dumb quetion.
If i use another camera APP, it will improve the photo quality?
point_pt said:
One dumb quetion.
If i use another camera APP, it will improve the photo quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends. I choose CFV-5 and PNG image saving (rrather than JPG) and it looks much better then Superior auto, and sometimes better than Sony's Manual mode.
I think mine is defective? Try this test:
[(x2 Camera) (x1 Camera) (HR Sensor+Flash) (Fingerprint Sensor)]
Cover the x2 optical zoom camera with a piece of paper, tape, or your finger
Press the x2 Optical Zoom button on the camera app
Press the x1 Optical Zoom button on the camera app
Toggle back and forth between the two
What happens?
As a control, try the test again but in reverse:
Now, cover the x1 camera with a piece of paper, tape, or your finger
Press the x2 optical zoom button on the camera app
Press the x1 Optical Zoom button on the camera app
Toggle back and forth between the two
What happens?
So, here's what happened with my camera.
TEST 1 - x2 Optical Zoom Camera covered: No obstruction of image in x1 optical zoom mode and x2 optical zoom mode.
TEST 2 - x1 Optical Zoom Camera covered: Yes obstruction of image in x1 optical zoom mode and x2 optical zoom mode.
CONCLUSION: My x2 optical zoom camera is defective and does not engage when the x2 optical zoom button is pressed, instead the camera defaults to x2 DIGITAL ZOOM using the x1 camera. I think my phone might be a lemon but I wanted to see if others have this problem too?
There is like four or five threads on this topic, explaining this in detail and BTW I think it works the same as iphone and no, it's not defective.
pete4k said:
There is like four or five threads on this topic, explaining this in detail and BTW I think it works the same as iphone and no, it's not defective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't find any.
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https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-8/help/feel-kinda-lied-to-camera-t3678220
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-8/how-to/2x-zoom-camera-optical-zoom-t3681342
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-8/help/optical-zoom-auto-mode-t3677214
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-8/help/cameras-2x-button-digital-zoom-optical-t3675508
The wide/main lens has better low light image quality than the telephoto lens (f1.7 aperture and 1/2.55" sensor for the main and f2.4 aperture and 1/3.6" sensor for the zoom). When taking a picture outdoors, the scene is bright enough that the telephoto lens will be used when you click on the x2 icon. If you take the picture indoors, even with artificial light, the phone sees the you get a better picture from the main lens so it uses that instead, and then crops the picture to get the zoom effect.
Look at the pictures attached. That's the same shot from the main and zoom lens. In low light, the zoom lens has worse image quality, with increased graininess from pumping up the ISO and a lot more blur from having to keep the shutter open longer to get more light in
You can try it yourself. Open the camera, aim it at a well-lighted scene (usually outdoors). Tap the x2, THEN cover the main lens and the viewfinder still shows the uncovered view.
Yeah mine "doesn't work " either.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
And for the record, this is not how the iPhone I tested worked. 7plus. In my office where light is moderate but not great, the note used the main lens and the iPhone used the telephoto. If you want to force it to use the 2x, then choose live focus. Which has no other choice.
harveydent said:
The wide/main lens has better low light image quality than the telephoto lens (f1.7 aperture and 1/2.55" sensor for the main and f2.4 aperture and 1/3.6" sensor for the zoom). When taking a picture outdoors, the scene is bright enough that the telephoto lens will be used when you click on the x2 icon. If you take the picture indoors, even with artificial light, the phone sees the you get a better picture from the main lens so it uses that instead, and then crops the picture to get the zoom effect.
Look at the pictures attached. That's the same shot from the main and zoom lens. In low light, the zoom lens has worse image quality, with increased graininess from pumping up the ISO and a lot more blur from having to keep the shutter open longer to get more light in
You can try it yourself. Open the camera, aim it at a well-lighted scene (usually outdoors). Tap the x2, THEN cover the main lens and the viewfinder still shows the uncovered view.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if this is the case then you should also show the reverse, as in what it looks like in good lighting situations and not just low light.
because with your example you're just repeating the problem but are not actually showing a solution or showing that there's nothing wrong with his lens. ie: you're not really proving anything.
i'm actually not that invested but just saying if you're going to prove something at least just try to do a complete job. nothing wrong with that, right?
Notasaurus said:
And for the record, this is not how the iPhone I tested worked. 7plus. In my office where light is moderate but not great, the note used the main lens and the iPhone used the telephoto. If you want to force it to use the 2x, then choose live focus. Which has no other choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it does work similar way:
https://www.macworld.com/article/31...d-of-optical-more-often-than-youd-expect.html
They will never be exactly the same, since they have different hardware, different logic etc. but for the purpose of this topic in low light they will both use digital zoom, instead of optical zoom, albeit at different threshold point.
the 2x lense works on the live focus.
yes it works fine on the live focus. your camera isnt broken. I tried it myself yesterday.
when the x2 lens is covered just a little bit it switches to the main camera and zooms in digitally.
when you then remove your finger from the x2 lens it switches back to that one almost immediately. you can barely notice it but i played with it yesterday because this post was driving me nuts!
lennie said:
if this is the case then you should also show the reverse, as in what it looks like in good lighting situations and not just low light.
because with your example you're just repeating the problem but are not actually showing a solution or showing that there's nothing wrong with his lens. ie: you're not really proving anything.
i'm actually not that invested but just saying if you're going to prove something at least just try to do a complete job. nothing wrong with that, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The pictures are to demonstrate that the zoom lens takes worse pictures in low light, since most people expect that the cameras are identical except for focal length ("zoom factor"). I really didn't go good light examples since that's essentially the phone working as expected, and people have already seen millions of examples of that. So here's the 1x and 2x pictures in good light... I guess?
harveydent said:
The pictures are to demonstrate that the zoom lens takes worse pictures in low light, since most people expect that the cameras are identical except for focal length ("zoom factor"). I really didn't go good light examples since that's essentially the phone working as expected, and people have already seen millions of examples of that. So here's the 1x and 2x pictures in good light... I guess?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really dumb question , is there a sure fire way for me to see if my X2 zoom being used is optical or not?
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Is there a way (or an app) to force the use of tele lens camera on the samsung note 8?
Working fine here if you block it will default to one camera as it detect issue if you toggle 1 and 2x it will re enable the other camera also if you just open camera app without blocking any camera both work as they should.
IDK if this is with new update but It also tells you when camera one is blocked and if you block camera 2 it says not enough light.
Again with this? If you cover the tele lens it thinks it is dark and ceases to function, plain and simple
Not sure if anyone noticed this, but i just found out that under the "pro mode", the 10mb jpegs are a tad less sharpening than under the "photo mode" and a bit more natural.
I took two photos same angel in the two modes, and the shutter speed and ISO are the same in the two photos. For focusing, I did not do manual focus but simply let the camera does it thing and hit the shutter button after a few seconds.
Anyone found the same? The only site mentioning about this is photographyblog, but that review seems to talk more about the tweak from AI.
I have noticed the same. That is why I usually take the pictures with manual mode.
I take them on photo mode and edit them afterwards to reduce sharpness.
Call me old fashioned, but I find it easier to reduce sharpness in a sharp detailed image, than to try to sharpen up a crap image such as from an S9.
I am positively surprised by the quality of the 40mp photos in good light though. They just aren't quite as sharp or detailed.
40MP Pro max ISO = 6400, without tripod
40mp (40mp = max ISO is 6400) by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
10MP photo Mode ISO 51.200, without tripod (max ISO 102.400)
photo mode ISO 51.200 by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
night mode ISO 3200
night mode by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
40MP ISO 6400, without tripod
photo mode 40mp (40mp = max ISO is 6400) by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
10MP ISO 102.400 without tripod
photo mode by Maik Reifschneider, auf Flickr
Jonathan-H said:
I take them on photo mode and edit them afterwards to reduce sharpness.
Call me old fashioned, but I find it easier to reduce sharpness in a sharp detailed image, than to try to sharpen up a crap image such as from an S9.
I am positively surprised by the quality of the 40mp photos in good light though. They just aren't quite as sharp or detailed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sharpening of photos are a lossy-action meaning you actually loose detail compared to the original "soft" image as you say. When you then go back to soften the image you take it through another lossy process. This is not an ideal workflow.
I did more testing under different lighting conditions with 10 mb jpegs under photo mode (auto) and pro modes. By looking at the photos at 100%, I noticed that the strong sharpening happens in photo mode when the light source is either very strong or quite dim. The difference is very apparent. But, when the light source is neither too strong or dim, the photos between the two modes are quite comparable, with the pro mode photos still edging out a little less sharpening.
The sharpening kicks in to high drive when there is a warning on "hold steady and sharpening photo" during picture taking. The thing is, the warning comes up randomly? I can't figure out when the software decides to bring that in. Anyone figures this out?
Without owning the device myself (yet) my guess is that the phone decides to apply stronger sharpening based upon how much the user moves during the shot. To compensate for any possible motion and/or shake blur it boosts the sharpening as it will fool most users to still see a sharp photo. But i don't know, can't really tell yet until i have the device in my hands to see exactly in which situations this happens.
/ Magnus
Magnus3D said:
Without owning the device myself (yet) my guess is that the phone decides to apply stronger sharpening based upon how much the user moves during the shot. To compensate for any possible motion and/or shake blur it boosts the sharpening as it will fool most users to still see a sharp photo. But i don't know, can't really tell yet until i have the device in my hands to see exactly in which situations this happens.
/ Magnus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Brilliant theory. I'll test that.
photoxd said:
I did more testing under different lighting conditions with 10 mb jpegs under photo mode (auto) and pro modes. By looking at the photos at 100%, I noticed that the strong sharpening happens in photo mode when the light source is either very strong or quite dim. The difference is very apparent. But, when the light source is neither too strong or dim, the photos between the two modes are quite comparable, with the pro mode photos still edging out a little less sharpening.
The sharpening kicks in to high drive when there is a warning on "hold steady and sharpening photo" during picture taking. The thing is, the warning comes up randomly? I can't figure out when the software decides to bring that in. Anyone figures this out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, based on my experience, when the scene you're trying to capture has got large differences in the bright and dark areas (high dynamic range), a sort of auto HDR mode of the camera kicks in and you will get the "Hold steady and sharpening photo" message. If you use PRO mode, the camera will not apply this auto HDR effect. Many people are complaining about this "over-sharpening" but I think it gives a nice effect in certain situations. What is less reliable is when the camera decides to enable this mode. I have been able to "force" this mode at times by touching the area which is brightly lit, this adjusts the exposure of the area selected and sometimes the camera will force this "auto HDR" mode.
Notice the first photo below - "auto hdr" did not kick in and i did not get the "Hold your device steady, sharpening photo" message. Because of the high dynamic range of the scene, the high-rise buildings in the distance are over-exposed.
In the second image, I touched to focus (and expose) the bright buildings in the distance and the camera applied the "auto hdr" producing the "hold steady" message. The high-rise buildings in the distance are then visible and the overall image gets a oversharpened look that many complain about.
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Here are my findings, not only regarding sharpening, but general camera observations. Hopefully we together can find out how camera works and how decides to apply the sharpening and other software tricks.
Photo mode:
- 3x zoom uses tele camera w/OIS, you can see it switches and the image becomes optically stabilized
- as mentioned above, on 1x, whenever you see the message to hold the camera steady, the image will be oversharpened and also some auto HDR will be applied
Pro mode:
- 3x will never use tele lens, but will always use software zoomed wide lens
- oversharpening and HDR will never be applied on 1x zoom
This is really bad UX, as you have to switch from pro to photo mode constantly if you want to use tele mode and not have software destroy wide shots.
I know that there is some great software work behind this, but I still wish there was a way to simply choose the sensor and get the output without any software adjustment: 40MP wide, 8MP tele, 20MP monochrome. In good light, 40MP produces much more detail than downsampled and software altered 10MP.
Spot on with regards to the zoom. Verified because in pro mode and zoomed 3x, the photo info says f1.8 while it says f2.4 in photo mode at 3x zoom. Thanks for the info. Didn't know this.
Ol' Blue Eyes said:
Spot on with regards to the zoom. Verified because in pro mode and zoomed 3x, the photo info says f1.8 while it says f2.4 in photo mode at 3x zoom. Thanks for the info. Didn't know this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, sometimes even in Photo mode it doesn't use tele lens (low light, focusing distance too close), but at least you can see it before taking the photo. Too bad it doesn't work in Pro mode, because Photo mode uses too long exposure (1/20s) so moving objects with tele lens are blurred.
I already contacted Huawei support about this, and asked if tele lens could be enabled in Pro mode, got only generic customer support response.
The hardware has so much potential, images are great, but software needs much improvement.
IMHO, Pro mode should have only 1x and 3x options: 1x results in 40MP image, 3x results in 10MP, that's it.
BTW, one more thing, if you zoom video to 3x (with pinch to zoom) it will also switch to tele lens.
Just discovered that in photo mode, if you change the leica colour mode to either smooth or vivid, the auto hdr never seems come on (no hold your phone steady message) . I haven't tested this extensively yet. Can anyone verify too? Cheers!
Ol' Blue Eyes said:
Just discovered that in photo mode, if you change the leica colour mode to either smooth or vivid, the auto hdr never seems come on (no hold your phone steady message) . I haven't tested this extensively yet. Can anyone verify too? Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes true. And thank God it doesn't trigger the hold steady thing, because in Leica color the over processing is staggering. Can't imagine what it would be if it combined with auto hdr steady crap
Ol' Blue Eyes said:
Just discovered that in photo mode, if you change the leica colour mode to either smooth or vivid, the auto hdr never seems come on (no hold your phone steady message) . I haven't tested this extensively yet. Can anyone verify too? Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did a few indoors tests earlier today against a window. Sharpening and auto HDR fired in normal photo mode and didn't in vivid, smooth or pro (I knew the last one wouldn't of course), so it does indeed seem like you might have stumbled onto something here.
However in these photos the standard auto with HDR and sharpening did actually look better than the others (because of the HDR, definitely could have done without the extra sharpening). So for now I will still feel the need to juggle modes much more often than on my previous couple of Samsung phones. I still feel like the P20 Pro takes exceptional photos in most situations though, it's really just the auto HDR situations that need to be readjusted. Fingers crossed that's going to happen in an update.