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Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
cool letter.. cant wait to see wat kind of responce you get.
Diddo.......Let's see if the big boss will let us play.
Great Letter Aggie. I would think the MS resposne would be pretty good about this. MS has been pretty good with other technologies lately in opening it up and taking feedbacks from users.
One thing is for sure. THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE BETTER THAN HERE TO TEST/TWEAK/BETTER WINDOWS MOBILE.
We do have a vast number of volunteers here that do a helluva job in making these roms faster and better.
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
!! Sweet !!
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
They need more of this for WM device settings...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=steve+ballmer+remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo
rizzo said:
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you might be right. But, aren't they allowing WM6 on the Universal? That may change the equation.
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
I support Texasaggie1
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
pzucchel said:
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Thought is NO-ONE. As all we do is RUN these ROMS and Tweak them to perform in the best way that they can. All that everyone does here is readily available and can/could/HAS been adopted by Developers, Networks & Manufacturers alike.
jwzg said:
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt any of the 'cookers' work for Microsoft. Although difficult, it's fairly common to reverse-engineer someone elses code and mold it into something that you want. Once you get the hang of how things work and make the script kiddie tools to do it, it's fairly simple.
One thing that a cooker can't do is write an entire OS then 'leak' it onto the internet and call it WM6, this is done by someone entrusted with copies of it for legitimate purposes. Blame HTC or any of the ODM's if you want, but it my opinion, it would be a waste of your time.
If you want to infect the world, you must spread your disease. MS has come a long way in this regard with the likes of gaining on Palm, RIM, symbian, etc.
Microsoft has always leveraged piracy to work in their favor...those that can't get the disease (or otherwise can't afford it) will have access to it. If you can't make the sale, might as well get them hooked fo' free!
pzucchel said:
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
texasaggie1 said:
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agreed texasaggie1 said but dont forget in all devices rom ,MS just part of 70% of rom others 30% belong to HTC,T-mobile...etc, the reason we need to cook rom in here not really problem belong to MS that belong to HTC,
MS understand HTC was first OEM used Mobile window,but MS can understand why we need to cook rom in here ? do you hear anyone cook Window XP ? MS must understand device rom is different with Window XP,MS just proved PB and AKU ,device also need driver and some of OEM program otherwide device(phone) will not working,you can see in rom kithen had OS/LOC/OEM , SO belong to MS,LOC/OEM belong to HTC,T-Mobile..etc. this is different with window XP,if today all rom made by MS than no one can said anything,but not in this case ,we in here not only help MS also help HTC,T-Mobile...etc. too, they got how many free employees to worked with them,now Apple will come out IPhone ,I dont think MS want to lose market to them,we in here 100% support to MS , I dont understand what piont they refuse us ?
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Good reply.
I know all of this is a long shot. But it's been bugging me lately. I had to post this letter.
Flashing/Testing New OS = Good Experience
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry, please don't take this the wrong way. But this is one of the silliest ideas I have seen in a long time. Think for a moment about the support headaches from even 20% of their users playing with ROMS versus the 2-3% that do it now. And you think some of the NOOBS on here get annoying forget about regular users!!!
I think things are about perfect the way they are. A little "unofficial" help lets us hardcore users reap the benefits of upgrading with out the hassles. Trust me if ROM upgrades became more official they would kill groups like this. They would charge for the upgrades and they would want to control them like they do desktop OS upgrades. I say no thanks to that. It's like the early days of Napster, or more recently You Tube taking down tons of videos, those things were much better before they became mainstream and then they had to change.
I will say this. MS should figure out how to make the CID & SIM Lock a separate part of the rom like the radio and bootloader, make it totally separate from the Rom & Extended Rom itself. That would allow tweakers to change roms with out worrying about Locks and would make the phone companies happy too. And I am sure users that need unlocking would figure that out too
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anyone who wants to can use google. I seriously do not think that its neccesary to let the world know. they could know... if they wanted to. Bad idea imho.
rizzo said:
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I have to side with rizzo on this one. They will never officially come out and allow this because they can't. You are asking them to agree to a. Code leaking, b. Code theft, c. Software Piracy in a sense (since you have to not acquired a legal copy and have not paid licenses for it), d. Copyright infringement. What company in their right mind say yes to this and open up the flood gates? And like rizzo said allow them to be liable for consumer or partner lawsuits as well?
As much as I agree with the original heartfelt post, we say what we say for argument's sake. They have already responded numerous times by allowing this and turning a blind eye. Every now and then they complain, either because we did step on some toes or because they officially have to say this is not allowed. If they really tried, they could cause some serious legal trouble. They choose not to, for a all the reasons mentioned in the original post.
So don't ask the impossible. Don't expect windows to become an open source application or windows mobile to release official betas to the public (not for sometime anyway). Pigs just don't fly sorry.
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
It's a long shot
igalan said:
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a long shot, but they do allow WM6 in the Universal thread. Maybe they will for us. Maybe we try again to post WM6 roms in a few weeks and see what happens??
Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.
Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.
Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.
First I'd like to start off by saying this is in no way meant to start trouble with Motorola by any means, you guys are an amazing company that make some amazing products. However, as a fan of Motorola and a consumer here are my views and what I assume are the views of many other users. Both people who like root and prefer stock.
I'd like to start by thanking aggiechase37 who's post about Motorola opening up and supporting non-oem ROMs gave me the final push to make and post this thread. If you have not seen it please give it a quick read HERE, and second thanks to everyone who takes the time to read this, if you can please respond with your thoughts on how I feel, and if you agree please post to show your support, hopefully if the support network is large enough Motorola will see the importance and a real benefit to following through with some of what will be said. So tweet this link, give everyone a link to it, and have everyone you know register here at the Motorola support forums, so that they to can show Motorola how big of a community we are, and what we can do with them!
Now to get into the long part... enjoy!
__________________________________________________________________
Thanks Motorola for the Droid 3, it was a great choice to continue the Droid series on your part, I loved my Droid 1, and still use it everyday, and I must say with all the neat features and upgrades you packed in really make it a true phone to marvel at. However, it does have it's shortcomings I'm sure you know more than all of us of all the little quirks in it, and I'm sure your working on some fixes for everyone so we can all really enjoy what this device has to offer.
So to start out, I have a few main points:
Customer Support
Developer side/Developer community side
Opening up a little
OEM supported ROMs
Lets start with Customer Support you guys have a great service record from me, I have never had any problems with contacting you about issues or anything, all of my experiences with you have been more than great, and for that I'd say you are doing a great job. However there are some people who don't get those same experiences, you guys have a wonderful network but there is always room for improvement, just keep that in mind for the future, the best survive and the average fail, so please be the best, because I'd rather have you not fail... The remain aspects of customer support are apart of the Developer Side and the Opening up a little sections below.
Next, the Developer side/Developer community side of things along with the Opening up a little. I understand the reason for you and others to not want the Developer community and to keep your phones and devices purely how you make them and nothing more, but this is old news, no one today wants this. Look at Apple, they are making suits out of their @$$. It's rather annoying to everyone, they are locked down, and since Android was introduced and your Droid 1 launched the Android world has exploded, and the philosophy behind Android is Open Source, so by you transistioning to more of the closed and 'locked' bootloader policy it's making you look more and more at what was the past in the mobile world, sure Apple is still here, but I assume that most of the people who have tried Android from Apple love the experience, and if Apple doesn't make some major changes they will simply become average, while Android becomes the best. So first some stats for you, as I'm sure you know already, but some may not, but there are over 500,000 new Android activations every single day! That's a big number, and it is rising. It has been proven look at just about every single Android device released, they are all rooted for the most part, whether its supported by the manufacturer or not. So root is going to happen no matter if you like it or not, but there are pros and cons to each way of looking at it.
so first the con side, root can be bad, it can ruin a brand new device and steal users info and all other kinds of nasty things, but root is also a nice tool, its good for all of us who want to truly be unlimted with our phones and devices, I'm not going to preach about all the benefits of root, if you want that I'm sure you can find thousands of other sites and blogs with that infomation, instead I'm going to focus on something root does for all of us. One of the root methods found in Android Froyo [2.2] was the 'rage against the cage' while it was an exploit that let all of us root our devices, it also was a way for true 'hackers' with ILL intentions to harm the people who had no idea and were innocent bystanders. Where as the people who found it simply had to use in order to root a device, they had no intentions of using it to steal identies and credit card infomation or anything else for that matter. But the 'hackers' who did are all piggy backing on everyone with the good intentions. With root not being endorsed it makes it easier for everyone to cause malware and harm to the Android name. Now if root was an exteneded option on Android rage against the cage may not have ever been found or used, because there wouldn't be nearly as many people looking for an exploit in the software. But with everyone looking those who want to use it to do bad things then their life is so much easier. They let us do the work and take the bullet and they get to take what they want. So think about it like this If root was an extra option from the manufacturer there wouldn't be nearly as many people trying to find a way to crack your software and make you look bad. Now root is still not something for everyone, but at least the option for it could and most likely would help Android and the manufacturers in the long haul.
Now onto the final point I have, OEM Supported ROMs I know its something you are first going to say will NEVER happen, but look at it like this, others have openly started to partially get to this stage, for example HTCDEV.com coming soon is the section on how to unlock bootloaders, that is good news and the developer community is happy with all that for now, as its a dynamic change in views which is wonderful news. Sony openly supports it as well, just check out this link Unlocking the boot loader | unlockbootloader.sonyericsson.com right on their site how to do it. Now I have to give you guys credit for trying you enabled an unlockable bootloader on the Xoom and now the Atrix, but I have yet to find details on how to do it from you. I have even called and asked various customer service people, most who had no idea what bootloader even was, and the few that did said that you don't support it and I should not do it, and will lose all warrenty from you. All of which I have no problem with. However it was known you supported the unlock the Xoom, otherwise you wouldn't have put it in, so why have your reps say no it's not supported and can't be done? So my first recomendation is to at least make a site or sub site about how to unlock the 'supported' devices witht he bootloaders, think about it, we don't have to come to you to get the info on how to do it, but if we can it makes you look better to all of us. Now onto the second part. like stated in that thread, with a few variations if you officially support unlockable bootloaders on all devices the developer community will love you and embrace it with open arms and your sales will sky rocket, everyone will buy Motorola over the others because of the new policy, but if you also say hey we support community developer ROMs on our devices not only will everyone love you, we will all pee our pants and praise the h**l out of you for ever! Now I'm sure you wondering how the h**l are we supposed to do that and make sure they all work like they should and deal with the head ache its more work than it will benefit. Well that all depends on how you go about it.
I've got plans all figured out on how you could do this seemlessly and easily with little headache on your part, other than making your devices unlockable. I would post it all, but if you are interested I wouldn't want someone like HTC or Sony stealing them and using them first. So I'm giving you Motorola first dibs on this. I also thought about you in the financial aspect so its not like you wouldn't get anything from this, you would also recieve a nice kickback from people using this service, so extra cash, developer and community wide spread peeing of the pants, love and praise for the ages could all be yours. I know even if you are interested it's not something that would be done next week or month, it would take some time to get it all together after we would iron out the details, but I think the investment on your part would go a long way. Hopefully everyone can show you this by supporting me in this thread. I will be posting links on twitter my twitter ID is @DroidConcepts, So if anyone would like to retweet please do, and tweet it yourself as well. I have also emailed this to Motorola, and within the next few weeks will present this to HTC, Sony, LG, and Google. If you or one of them is interested than great I would be more than thrilled to work with you, and I'm not even asking for any money, just a nice new device here and there.. So any feedback from you Motorola is very much welcomed and appreciated and I look forward to hopefully talking further about this, hopefully over the phone, or maybe a trip to the headquarters....
-Woody
I can be reached at the twitter username: @DroidConcepts or by email at [email protected]
I look forward to your response!
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I know this was long, so thank you all for following and reading, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show your support so Motorola can not only see how important this is for all of us and the Android community but for them as well.
Twitter link: https://twitter.com/#!/DroidConcepts/status/102548734499495937
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I originally posted this here: https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/55945
Please RT and support if you can!
Emailing to HTC
a.k.a.
- - - Operation "ath6kl_sdio.ko" - - -
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Hey Guys,
As you know, our great little phone has lot of potentials, but HTC condemned it to the status of an entry-level phone, meaning its main purpose is to draw new customers to their more expensive devices. And thus they leave us in the dark in the development front, and not just us but other less hi-spec phones too, like our twin-brother the Explorer forum or the Amaze 4G who have both achieved amazing things despite the lack of support.
Compared to other companies like Sony and Samsung who aims to be a "good open source citizen" by releasing entire source codes ahead of the actual phone launch, we can call it carelessness, laziness or a marketing model with debatable efficiency, but that is not too important now.
The only thing we can do - similarly to other users of neglected phones, like the Amaze 4G - is to inundate HTC with emails from each one of us, so they become aware that there is a strong and willing community of Desire C users who are devoted to this phone not just because it is cheap, but for other reasons too :victory:
For me personally it's the size that hands down beats all the higher-spec bigger bros, and feature wise all it's category. Think about yours and write to them.
The aim of this thread is to highlight the holes in the official support and to provide information for anyone who is prepared to write HTC regarding the development issues we are facing. The post below will be updated parallel with the info we are gathering here.
>>> Therefore it would be appreciated if our devs and more technically literate members added their insights on these problems, so it can be communicated to the company effectively in an appropriate manner.
However we are looking for sharing valuable information here as we don't have anything else right now, so please aim for constructive comments and don't spam the thread with "it aint gonna happen no way" and "i hate you HTC, die cun**ts", herpaderpaderp and so on.
Sobbing, ranting or being cynical does not help at all, in fact does the opposite. <<<
::::: So guys, we can choose wether moaning about the shortcomings of our phone or actually do something about it even if one isn't a dev. Based on the info you find here and on these forums, write an email to HTC, some of us have done it already. We have nothing to lose and a pro-active collective attitude can make real change. In fact that's the only thing that does
CLICK to write to HTC
if you run out of space in the provided text-box, alternatively you can contact them here:
http://www.htc.com/uk/contact/email/
However, expect to get a well-bred canned reply with no actual help at all, but as an example look at the recent Amaze 4G success story (thanks for odunluzikkim and sakindia123 for pointing out).
You have to realise our strength is in collective effort, and its success is depending on each one of us, seriously.
To educate yourself in the topic:
-- about the success of the Amaze 4G community:
http://www.change.org/petitions/htc...ivers-sourcecode-associated-with-the-amaze-4g
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1679112
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1557500
-- about HTC's violations and company attitude:
http://users.livejournal.com/joshua_/41833.html
http://users.livejournal.com/joshua_/43185.html
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-c...ore-decisive?utm_source=ac&utm_medium=twitter
-- about the competition and HTC's situation on the market:
http://www.tmonews.com/2013/01/as-s...-different-financial-results-can-htc-survive/
http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Samsung+Snag+99+of+Mobile+Phone+Profits+/article24616.htm
-- about software licensing:
http://www.fsf.org/about/
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License
http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/bsd/license.html
http://pthree.org/2007/08/08/bsd-license-explained-in-layman-terms/
And finally, if you believe this is a good cause and benefits for the whole Android and Open-Source Community:
) ) ) ) ) SPREAD THE WORD! ( ( ( ( (
- Include this or the petition in your signature and blog and write about it in forums. Click to download the press pack or the avatar pack
- Use Twitter, Facebook, G+ and all your social networks to tweet, share, post about it and about HTC's ignorant attitude
- Bombard @HTC and @HTCdev Twitter and Facebook and express the issue
More on #HASHTAGS will follow later -
Stay tuned
How and What to Write
Known issues with official support that hinders us in development:
Source code of the WiFi driver called "ath6kl_sdio.ko", that prevents the porting of fully functioning custom ROMs like CM9/10, AOKP and so on
S-OFF
ICS 4.04
Bootloader or Stock Kernel bug that causes reboot in Recovery
And we have the lack of Jelly Bean issue, but honestly I believe it is part of HTC's marketing policy, and asking them for it would be like asking Apple to build SD card slot in iPhones lol. Officially it is not gonna happen. But I also believe porting JB will happen sooner or later regardless if they care or not, and if they can make our devs' work easier with something, that is even better.
However given the situation, our priority now is the precious ath6kl_sdio.ko driver. And we will get it one way or an other So the emails and our petition should be focused on that, we can deal with the rest once we have this.
::::: Sooo, you want to write an email to HTC? Let our voice be heard and spam the hell out of them! But we need to do it professionally Have a good read on hasoon2000's thread from the Amaze 4G forum, it's amazing what these guys have been gone through. They have tried literally EVERYTHING and they were ready to push it even further.
The Battle Plan, Phase 1:
Phase 1 Operation “ath6kl_sido.ko”
Email Awareness Campaign;
This campaign will be a focused in two pronged strategy to HTC. The idea behind this is to create awareness within HTC that ;
(a) There is a problem with the Desire C software that needs to be addressed
(b) That we will not back down from this issue
(c) That the standard emails from support agents are not good enough and getting us nowhere
(d) That we would like the problem escalated to the appropriate division
(e) That we get a clear and defined answer to the problem from HTC
With this in mind we will embark on the following strategy;
i. Design four emails to HTC, hardcore and soft core, Desire C user and Non desire c users. DONE
ii. Orchestrate a combined email drive to htc support and htc public relations departments on Monday 8th April starting at 12:00 gmt
iii. These emails will be sent as close together as possible
iv. The troops will select a mail of the four templates that they comfortable with and adjust them if need be
v. That the emails will go to the following email addresses only: [email protected] (Vice President of Global Communications & Public Affairs); [email protected]
vi. This strategy will be implemented for one week only and then we will change tactics.
vii. To involve as many people as possible, including, family members and friends who do not belong to XDA
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A couple of things to consider before writing your email:
--- "ath6kl_sdio.ko" was released by Atheros Communications Inc. under dual BSD/GPL license.
Apparently this means they are not obliged to release the code, since BSD - in contrast to GPL -, allows them to keep it if they want to. Dual BSD/GPL means they are free to choose either of the licenses:
- GPL grants that the code stays open source, once it has been reused it has to be released by law, no matter how mighty the company is there is no way around it, and this is why corporations don't like it, obviously it is set against the capitalist framework, and this is why open source loves it.
- BSD is also a free software license, but it allows you to take the free code and not giving it back to the open source community.
We can safely assume HTC chose the second option.
Basically we have to accept the fact that legally, they have the right to keep the code. On the other hand it is not a good fashion from them to do so, and we have to highlight this to them and to anyone out there on every possible channels. This is what means "giving them a bad PR".
--- From a point of marketing efficiency: HTC has been doing quite badly for while now against their competition, who recognised the asset in the co-operation with communities like ours. More support means more trustable brand image and stronger customer base. They are losing market due to being closed-minded.
--- Brand image: which company wants to be known for **** support, especially if they are openly state the opposite. On the main page of www.htcdev.com can be read:
HTC is constantly pushing to create the ultimate experience for developers. Now you can access the tools you need to make great things happen.
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- sounds quite embarrassing after flicking through the pages of this thread...
--- Keeping the code is very questionable ethically, this is what also russell664 was pointing out in his emails. This is a rational we can stick to, because there is simply no reason to keep the source code away from us, other then a stubborn and static marketing model, which is being proven to be outdated, inefficient and unsustainable. They are hoping an upheaval from One X and Sense 5, which is great, but the other companies have great new stuff too plus a loyal customer base, boooo....
--- Keeping the Desire C source code is not a question of life and death to them, but rather an initial decision which follows an outdated marketing model which leaves the open source initiative, like ours out of consideration (A clever company however grabs every bit of opportunity to turn it into profit). This is why we have to make them aware that we are here and we want the code, and we are not going to stop until they release it.
--- HTC is a huge company with bureaucratic structure. Convincing them won't be an easy task, be prepared to for a long and tough struggle. For the guys in Amaze 4G forum took 7 month. However they already have pioneered this before us which hopefully makes our job a bit easier. We just have to follow their example.
Be adult (even if you are not) and consider these before you post "...they don't help us... :crying:" etc. Know that they won't acknowledge their mistake or tell you "here is the driver, mr. xda member desire c user". Remember it is not a person but a corporate entity we are talking to at the end.
Do your homework:
Everyone who is concerned, please read through hasoon2000's thread, there is everything you need to know about how to deal with HTC. It is 30 pages but if you don't, you have no right to complain y u no have CM9
Let me quote the enlightening words of negotiation-master hasoon2000 from this post:
Remember, HTC is a huge company. You can't send an email like this
Y u know releaze da driverz 4 da Desiya See.
You have to be professional with them, at all times.
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Read ALL my posts so you can see my professionalism and CALL THEM OUT! Don't accept what they have to say. Frankly, I don't care what they say because I know what they will say. You need to attract attention and give them bad PR, professionally of course. After months of working on it and teaching people, they finally released the source.
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Unified template? Don't even. If I received multiple emails of the same thing with the only difference is the name, I wouldn't care because you didn't actually make an effort to convince me. Everyone has different experiences with different manufacturers, phones, etc. Tell them your story, why you got the Desire C. Whether it's because you have a budget or you don't want the latest and greatest phone. Maybe because you like the size of the phone or you have small hands. Whatever it may be, they had a reason for you to buy the phone or everything else. Tell them why you bought it, how you want to customize the phone with your hard earned money.
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These guys are corporate people. All they want is money. Find statistics on how HTC is losing sales and how Samsung/Apple are getting more market share. Tell them how HTC is losing customers and exposure over something small. Compressing the source code takes no more than 2 minutes. Uploading it takes a few minutes. Is that REALLY going to kill them? No, unless they don't release the source code. Tell them how Samsung was not developer friendly in the beginning and when they became developer friendly, look at them now. They are making BANK! HTC could do the same IF they weren't being assholes. When someone sees how cool a phone is when it has a custom ROM, people will start purchasing from that manufacturer because of the cool stuff it can do. Tell them all these things! Look at the Amaze 4G, we got out source.
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And now some examples of his correspondence with the company. Look at how he did not let them to overwhelm him and get away with bullsh*it. He broke the same canned responses what we already got, and gained attention with sheer logic:
Here is what I wrote:
HTC has made a promise to help to development community by releasing the source code as well as unlocking the bootloader for their devices. However, the TI WLAN source code has been withheld from the community. This slows development and can even cease development for the device completely. Without the source code, developers will have to develop blindly and hoping not to break anything in the process. The Amaze 4G has great potential due to his hardware and power that it harnesses. Android is an Open Source OS, but HTC is sounding more like Apple, holding their source from the public. People purchased the device to experience the "Real Feel" of Android by customizing it, installing Custom ROMs, tweaking it, etc. Without the WLAN source code, we, as a community, have starting to lose faith in HTC and some of us have even pledged to never purchase an HTC device again due to HTC's policies. The community will like for HTC to rethink their strategy and be "Open" with the community. The best form of advertisement is by "The Word-of-Mouth". When our community, the tech savvy and the owners of a smartphone, see how HTC listens to their customers requests, they will become more profitable and retain/gain new and loyal customers.
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Follow along my lines but don't copy and paste it. Be truthful to them. Open your mind/heart. Tell them why we want, why it will help, why it will help their image with consumers, how it can lead to more business and brand loyalty.
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HTC responded to me
Dear Odai,
I understand you would like to have certain source codes like the WLAN drivers to the development community. I realize that this information is of great importance to you. The only source code we have available is the full source code available on the HTC Developer website at http://htcdev.com. We do not currently have an option to send individual parts of the source code separately. Any parts of the kernel source code that are not included in the released source code on the website should be considered propriety and not available for release. Please visit http://htcdev.com/contact to leave comments about this feature. I thank you for sending your email to HTC today.
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My response to that
Since HTC is committed to helping the development community, hence HTCDev has been started, there have been a fair share of issues that is being withheld from us. There has been a lack of support for certain devices since new flagship phones have been released. For example, the HTC Amaze 4G is a device with great hardware, but HTC has not given us full support due to the face of the HTC One series being released. As a business student, I understand what is being done. HTC would like their new flagship phones to sell and give less support to older devices. However, we are being left out and since this is my first non-Nokia device, I feel betrayed by HTC already. I purchased the Amaze 4G due to its hardware and I know it can unleash its true potential, only with the help of HTC. However, this is not the case. There are devices with over 10 custom made kernels and how many does the Amaze have? Only one and that is for Gingerbread and it has slight modifications since the full source has not be released. This is a huge setback to us users. We have barely any type of custom ROMs. We have not AOSP (Android Open Source Project) ROMs since we need the full kernel source to even make a kernel that is compatible with AOSP ROMs.
The Sensation development is sky high booming with plenty of developers. As a developer for the HTC Amaze 4G, looking at the Sensation development is heart breaking. The Amaze is truly better, but yet has no support from those who created it. It is like leaving a baby in the street. You do not do that.
HTC needs to realize for those who purchase their devices and would like to retain loyalty to HTC, HTC needs to treat their customers back as well. Without us, HTC is nothing.
As I stated earlier, this is my first Non-Nokia device and I already feel betrayed by HTC. If HTC cannot fix their act and be committed to those purchase their devices, they will lose customers significantly.
There should be a way to release the full source to us HTC Amaze 4G owners by talking to other companies that have their hardware in the Amaze. If that cannot be done, this will be my first and last HTC device ever.
So do what you can and stay committed to your program for us HTC users. Without your support, we feel betrayed since the company is not living up to their word. For us, it is hypocrisy while you guys believe it is business. The best business is customer support. If customers are not given what they have been truly promised, HTC might as well just shut down or reallocate to another industry. Just my opinions and my response.
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The responded to my message.
I can definitely understand how the previous agent’s answer would make you upset. I’ll be glad to help you, Odai. By law, all that we are required to release is the kernel source code. HTC will release source code in accordance with any applicable open source license terms, i.e. GPL v2.0. Other source codes, which are not required to be disclosed by the open source license terms, unfortunately cannot be disclosed by HTC, as they may be proprietary to HTC or its licensor.
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My response
Samuel, thank you for responding. Danielle blew off my message and that is not great customer service. However, I see conflicting interests from messages I have been told as well as other. Some of the users have been told
"HTC will typically publish on http://developer.htc.com or htcdev.com the Kernel open source code for recently released devices as soon as possible. HTC will normally publish this within 90 to 120 days. This time frame is within the requirements of the open source community."
Also, "Hello, (name omitted), and thank you for contacting HTC regarding your concerns with the T-Mobile Amaze ICS kernel source code. I understand how important it is for you to have this information for your phone. As you stated in your email to us, you aren’t talking about the Gingerbread source code, but I would like to note that the source code for Gingerbread is available on our htcdev.com website. The ICS software for the Amaze is relatively new for us, having just released a couple months ago. It does take time for the code to be compiled and we aren’t trying to keep it from you or our other customers. Also, the Amaze does have Sense 3.6 when upgraded to ICS, as do all our devices, thus far, that have received the ICS update. Unfortunately, though it is available for customer use, we don’t support the htcdev.com website and do not know if or when the kernel source code for ICS will be released. I apprecate you contacting us with your concerns and thank you for being an HTC customer!"
Why are the messages all conflicting? Some say it is not required, some say you have to wait 90 - 120 days when devices, like the Sensation, received the source code within 2 weeks of the ICS release. The management is either terrible or the staff is not properly trained.
Do you see why we are not happy with HTC? High Tech Computers is what HTC stands for, correct? HTC is also looking to help out the development community, correct? The only company that TRULY believes in the development community is Samsung. They acknowledged the work at XDA-Developers.com and they see how important it is to get in touch with those who love to customize their devices. Without releasing the source code to use so we can take advantage of OUR devices, you'll end up with unsatisfied customers and you will lose loyal customers. As a first time owner of an HTC device, I am pretty mad that I can't truly take advantage of it. I worked for T-Mobile for a few years and sold many HTC and Samsung phones. I always saw the Samsung owners are able to have full and true control of their devices. It is not the same however, with HTC.
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Remember folks! TAKE INITIATIVE! CALL THEM OUT! TELL THEM WHAT OTHER COMPANIES ARE DOING! Be a man! lol
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Can I say progress?
Dear Odai,
Thanks for getting back to me, Odai. I’m honestly not sure why there is conflicting information. The first email that you quoted contains the correct information. The time frame that we generally release new kernels is 90 to 120 days. Though I don’t know why the Sensation’s source code was available so soon, there’s no reason I can see why the Amaze’s wouldn’t be released within the 90 to 120 time frame previously mentioned. Since the Amaze 4G is part of the bootloader unlock program, the latest source code will be posted to htcdev.com when available. Due to the inconsistency of the responses you’ve seen, I can definitely understand why you and others would be so unhappy. Personally, I’m going to do what I can to make sure this addressed and prevent conflicting and misinformation in the future. I agree with you that members of the developer community have the right to this information and only with that can they push their devices to the limit. If there’s anything else I can do for you, please let me know. Thanks again for taking the time to contact us and for being an HTC customer.
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My response
Samuel, I am glad that you have acknowledged the issues and the inconsistency in the messages we are given. I commend you for that.
As a Recognized Developer on XDA-Developers, as well as speaking on behalf of the Amaze 4G community, we would like HTC to work a deal with us. We need the source code, the full source code I should say, to help our development for the Amaze.
Reasons are as follows:
1. It will retain customer loyalty.
2. It will increase in sales/customer database.
3. Receiving a better name for the company.
I will explain how it will for each reason.
1. As I have stated, it will retain customer loyalty. When customers see the company taking care of them and fully addressing their issues, customers will be happy, even if the problem is not fixed. They see HTC cares and tries to do their best. HTC has well built all around devices and that is why customers continue purchasing HTC devices.
2. The sales number will increase. It may be a slight amount, but when customers enjoy their phones, they will continue purchasing the devices in the future. When I show my friends what my phone can do, it blows their mind. I have friends who purchase the phone I have because I show them what it can do and what their phones cannot do. Remember, the best advertisement is word-of-mouth.
3. A company should be a people company. HTC shows that they care about the development community by opening HTCDev. That is wonderful to see someone has been paying attention to us. Samsung does promotions specifically for XDA-Developers. They have truly recognized our community and they even hired a developer! HTC should see how big the customer base of XDA-Developers, CyanogenMod, RootzWiki and many other development websites/forums. When they show true interest in us, we will defend the company if someone speaks bad about it, etc.
All the reasons tie in with one another. Samuel, I believe you should pass our conversation along to the higher management. They should not blow our community off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you guys taking notes??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another response
Dear Odai,
I really appreciate all the feedback you’ve given us, Odai. I can definitely take and forward our conversation to management. Hopefully through this we can get you guys some more support. If there’s ever anything else I can do for you, just let me know. I hope you have a good weekend, and thanks again for reaching out to us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys REALLY need to do the same as I did! BRING IT TO THEIR ATTENTION!
Read the conversation. Look at my writing style. See how I took the initiative and yet, I was 100% professional?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Okay, you enjoyed the reading I hope
Finally, here are the points to bear in mind, ALWAYS:
When you contact them initially, the agent handles you as a retard by default: answers to questions you didn't ask or just simply gives stupid answers. Not because he is a bad person or high on drugs, but not trained on solving such a case. If it becomes apparent that they cannot manage your query, the maximum they can do is to escalate the case, but again, it depends on the agent, towards which department does he/she do that, it can vary. But if we push it through, at the end this will be more efficient since they will be having the same case coming from all over the departments of the company, and the managers of each of these departments will have to notice us as a community with strong commitment, among the usual "how to change my battery" or "my dog swallowed my Wildfire, you gonna pay for this" type of emails. If your first email fits to the text box provided on www.htcdev.com, then the best is if you send your email there.
The point is that their ridiculous initial ignorance actually pays off for you, because you can embarrass them by facing them with their own outcrying stupidity, such as they don't even know their own devices. Complain about their poor customer support and give examples why until they have to take you seriously, and believe me - they will. After this most possibly you will get a new agent who uses less template and replies to your actual questions, and not like an answering-bot. But for this, you need get though the initial impersonal template-using phase. So again please, don't post their reply with comments like "wtf thats weird" and "thats a whole load of bullcraq and [email protected]*%trash" - otherwise everyone will think you are childish. Don't be naive and expect their initial style, which will change if you don't behave like a child, trust me.
Also aim to post their reply with yours, with the one you replied, to keep the ball rolling. You have the chance to be more pro-active here, this is what we need, don't just paste it passively and then expect we will munching on it. We already have seen enough of those emails, show us your initiative! And don't leave your first email out of the conversation, so other members can benefit from your words. Don't be shy, everyone has to start somehow and we are here to help each other.
And most importantly, you will have to maintain a professional manner, otherwise you lose your advantage as a serious and self-aware customer you have against them.
>>>>>>>>
Here is what I wrote (thanks for whoamigriffiths for the english check). You can follow the lines of these and hasoon2000's original email, but please make it personal, don't just copy-paste it. Remember what he told us here. Explain them what you want and why you want it, why it is important to us and why co-operation is beneficial for both of us, and why the lack of real co-operation is not. Also, express that you are writing in the name of the whole community. You can mention our forum had more then 2.000.000 views since it was founded in July 2012.
And most importantly, be explicit. Always state that you want the source code of the WiFi driver "ath6kl_sdio.ko".
They will continue to hear about us Wether they like it or not.
Dear HTC,
I belong to a thriving community of Desire C users and developers. We like this phone very much and chose it for numerous reasons, price was not the only factor.
Personally I like its small size which still comes with an attractive design and relatively good performance.
For me, these features helped me decide to choose this phone, not only over others in the same category, but over more expensive devices on the market - hands down.
However the lack of substantive official support for our phone hinders us in further enhancing this already great little device.
We as a community are well aware that certain things, like official Jelly Bean support is unlikely to happen for various reasons that are both out of our reach as well as out of your reach too as a Company.
But speaking in the name of our Community, I am asking you to kindly enhance your customer support and, like your competitors, release more source code for us to use.
The most important code that we need is:
- the source code of the WiFi driver "ath6kl_sdio.ko" that is not present in the kernel source
Without it the porting of fully functioning custom ROMs like the famous CyanogenMod, AOSP and AOKP is not possible.
We have been fond of HTC since the Hero came out, which was the first phone on the market that was cool enough to compete with iPhone.
Also we have appreciated the Companys attitude in opening up to the Open-Source Community in the past by setting up HTCdev.com, that has been providing help for Independent Developers.
We aim to further strengthen this co-operation and believe together we can work for even better devices that are more customised according to the users needs.
This makes us - your more adventurous customers - happier and our work on this device has to be for the good of everyone: us, HTC and quite possibly, both new phones and new customers in the future.
A better support now, also makes it possible for us to tell everyone in the Open-Source Community that HTC is one of those rare Companies which honestly cares for its users.
With kindest regards,
Your Name
from XDA Developers HTC Desire C Community
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Soon, like the Amaze 4G guys we will release a petition, which will be addressed to Peter Chou, the CEO of HTC. Until then write your emails and stay optimist regardless of the response, remember the positive example in front of us. Stay focused on what we want and be persistent. No need to get angry, simply because we are part of something which is incomparably stronger then them:laugh:
Great job starting this thread :good: .Hopefully all the desire c users from our forum will support this and our device can finally get the attention it deserves
Re: Emails to HTC
U guys want help from htc ????
They won't !!!
U ask for help to out Pico devs .....
They will surely help u
If u want htc to help u guys
Wait for years
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda premium
Yup great idea . Hopefully we can keep this thread positive
Apex-Predator said:
U guys want help from htc ????
They won't !!!
U ask for help to out Pico devs .....
They will surely help u
If u want htc to help u guys
Wait for years
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
are you sure? i'm asking because had been like this before. did you read this link? this thread? it's worked before.
Apex-Predator said:
U guys want help from htc ????
They won't !!!
U ask for help to out Pico devs .....
They will surely help u
If u want htc to help u guys
Wait for years
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think emailing HTC and asking help from Pico devs doesn't exclude each other. We do whatever we can, and all the help is appreciated really much, as already it is from you guys We are pulling ourselves together for bigger horizons.
As far as i'm concerned, we need to annoy HTC to prove that there is a user base that requires support. Weather that support is in the form of jellybean or the source code of the kernel with WIFI modules. The point is as many others will agree is that HTC is a hand out and forget company they release nice little phones, and leave them unsupported, which is wrong, we need to get HTC's attention on this matter, me for one am sending multiple emails to them asking why they will not do anything, and if they can release some more source code.
Hopefully we can make something of this thread, keep it positive and post your emails from HTC here so everyone can see what they say about the matter.
The devs should focus on a CM9 setup, leave HTC devs behind, yes there open source would help but they wont help due to no money involved, the push the power of this phone it looses them money on the bigger phones (One X etc) our devs have the ability to make a CM9 or JB rom, support our devs!!!!
XDroidie626 said:
The devs should focus on a CM9 setup, leave HTC devs behind, yes there open source would help but they wont help due to no money involved, the push the power of this phone it looses them money on the bigger phones (One X etc) our devs have the ability to make a CM9 or JB rom, support our devs!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey XDroidie626, I agree with you that the reason for lack of support is that there is no money incentive behind it, but there is also a vested interest for the big companies to support open-source communities, which pays off indirectly for them and it is good for everyone, and it's an increasing trend. I think emialing HTC and supporting our devs do not exclude each other, we put in whatever we can
stick
I think the thread should be sticked, as it is for raising awareness for new and existing members. If you think it too, report it through the reporting service and ask for making it stick.
Okay I contacted them, and this is what I got:
Thank you for contacting HTC regarding your HTC Desire C.
My name is Rob and I am a Technical Support Agent for the HTC Written Team.
I understand you are missing the Wi-Fi modules in the kernel source code.
I'm afraid we do not have the facility to send certain parts of the source code. If you are not able to find the part you are looking for, please then follow the HTC Dev Twitter. Any additional releases will be posted on here.
HTC Dev twitter: https://twitter.com/htcdev
Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.
I am confident that this will resolve your query, in the unlikely event that this does not please call or instant chat to one of our Technical Support Agents who will be waiting to guide you through step by step. Our Contact Details can be found at www.htc.com/uk/contact
Should you wish to continue your correspondence via email then please reply using the link below
Not one bit of help
guys forget jB .. htc one v doesnt have it so does desire c ... look for ics 4.0.4 with sense 4.1 !!
Re: [INFO] Emails to HTC
russell664 said:
Okay I contacted them, and this is what I got:
Thank you for contacting HTC regarding your HTC Desire C.
My name is Rob and I am a Technical Support Agent for the HTC Written Team.
I understand you are missing the Wi-Fi modules in the kernel source code.
I'm afraid we do not have the facility to send certain parts of the source code. If you are not able to find the part you are looking for, please then follow the HTC Dev Twitter. Any additional releases will be posted on here.
HTC Dev twitter: https://twitter.com/htcdev
Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.
I am confident that this will resolve your query, in the unlikely event that this does not please call or instant chat to one of our Technical Support Agents who will be waiting to guide you through step by step. Our Contact Details can be found at www.htc.com/uk/contact
Should you wish to continue your correspondence via email then please reply using the link below
Not one bit of help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I told ya
They won't help !!!
U guys need to find our own ways
Sent from my HTC Explorer A310e using xda premium
Post this thread on your Twitter, Facebook etc!
Email sended :3
@alex-predator, i asking you again. did you read this? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1679112
really, not to be so pessimistic.
russell664 said:
Not one bit of help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not surprising, but we have to keep pushing to reach a critical mass
utsav17 said:
guys forget jB .. htc one v doesnt have it so does desire c ... look for ics 4.0.4 with sense 4.1 !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please read this post, no one is hoping for official JB here.
Apex-Predator said:
I told ya
They won't help !!!
U guys need to find our own ways
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one said it is going to happen by writing an email, and as I said to keep contacting HTC by the entire community doesn't exclude finding our own ways in developing, in fact this is what our devs are doing right now.
And to everyone who is reading this, from now on I would really appreciate if you only posted constructive comments, this thread is not for gloating or giving out frustrations but to help to make things happen. Thank you!
Thank you for taking the time to contact HTC technical support.
I appreciate you taking the time to provide us with some feedback regarding what you would like to see us provide to better assist you and other members of the development community, Andrew.
I will certainly notate your feedback for consideration with regards to providing specific source codes and providing an S-Off option in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, they have given me a "positive" answer...in the future....
TheRedHunter said:
Sure, they have given me a "positive" answer...in the future....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are 100% the expected responses, we just have to keep pushing on a regular basis, all of us.
Suggestion
I know that other thread asked for people to write from the heart etc in an attempt(successful) to get things done
But
And this is just a suggestion from personal experience.
The majority of people are likely to read a thread like this and nod in agreement , then do nothing about it.
It might be good if someone wrote a 'template' email for people to copy and paste as well as the link to the email of HTC (Already includedI know).
You might find you get a much better response from the people who read (and don't generally participate)the Forum.
I know HTC will see the same email over and over BUT they will be from different people and phone numbers . It will in effect become a written protest from desire c owners.
I apologize for the title, but this is relevant to Oneplus 10 Pro.
On approx Nov 12th last month, i joined heavily in the discussion regarding Region changing, or using MSM Tool to flash a different fw for our devices. That same day i successfully jumped from the 2419 Tmobile branded fw, to the 2415 Global FW, without a hitch. I then immediately posted success replies to those who were interested. In the 1st full reply regarding my process, i identified several "requirements" in both editing an accompanying file, as well as which version(s) were needed in order to do the jumps. Exactly 3 days later, OPPO took down their official posting that linked to the Rollback packages, and the Beta 1 Android 13 builds to download including the local update apks needed. Seamlessly they linked an identical page with NEW links to download, that had the same names almost. (i have screenshots of the file size differences for proof) ... but almost 70% of you all who attempted my instructions, but downloaded the UPDATED packages, resulted in a bootloop, or unresponsive device!
1st... im sorry for that! When i hard linked the files that i KNEW worked, i never expected oneplus to be sneaky and change the contents, but keep my links headed to these newer packages... I just really did not fathom a company which we all used to support, turning against us in an act of really sinister nature. They had to be aware that once these files were changed out, it would create numerous bootloops and bricks, yet they would not provide us an Unbrick method.
I addressed the altered files swiftly once i verified the changes, and then began urging people to be careful and also realize that there were new things that were done to the FW and i did not have any ideas how they would react, especially on the Tmobile Variants of the 10 Pro and 10 T... but i made THIS FORUM, my ground zero because doing the same method WORKED on the 10 Pro... but after a few modifications, i was stuck in the Unresponsive Brick state ppl were encountering.
(My 10T still worked like a champ though, which confused me as usually OLDER devices have less structural security than newer ones, and the 10 pro was almost a year older!! To Assume something makes an A** of U & ME.)
So with this forum as ground zero, it was where i was focusing probably close to 30-40 hrs a week, trying to troubleshoot and collaborate with other Devs/users about methods to break the MSM TOOL Authentication, so we would all have a WORKING, UNBRICK TOOL, that no one had to send some person a crypto payment to then let them log into your computer! (Stranger Danger!!!!)
It seemed like every time we had SOME MEASURE of success, either by luck, or even finding an alternative tool not meant for this device, that was capable of a successful flash.... we were instantly "knee-capped" by a sniper, and either the new tool no longer functioned properly or it outright broke.... (Secrecy Tool... used to unlock crucial Engineering Mode sections got blucked thru the instructed installation, with no new solution.... which also somehow there are screenshots of an Engineering app, RUNNING ON A ONEPLUS 10 Pro, that had 3 or 4 more options than we do.... hmmm) Anyways just one example of an OPPO intervention.
I have helped with SAMSUNG Root exploits that were SERIOUS flaws, and it took Samsung a few weeks to try patching... BUT I KNOW that BBK, with all the 40 different devices released each year, DOES NOT have a team dedicated to scouring for OUR semi-glitchy NON WORKING theories. (1st clue)
Anyways, here is the main point.... About 2 weeks ago i revealed that i was going ALL IN on finding a way to give us an MSM Flash tool that would bypass all the login stuff and let us do a local UNBRICK FLASH. I gave a few too many clues as to what my Goal Line was looking at. In about 24 hrs i was sent a "Cease and Desist Order" via email, to an address that is not associated to either THIS account on XDA, nor ANY account connected to the Oneplus Community. It was an address linked to a Qualcomm Developer profile i created, and another Android development site. Yet that site doesn't have any info linking to XDA. (2nd clue)
After the 1st order i got... i received a less formal , but just as direct email, from BBK/Oppo requesting that i stop ANY reverse engineering activity that they are now aware of my actions, and failure to comply, or if a release of any tool that had identifying data which could be proven as OPPO programming tools, they would refer my actions to the Department of Justice, cyber crimes division. I TOOK THAT ONE SERIOUSLY, and notified my family attorney! .... I then just within the past 48 hours posted some updates, as well as theories regarding other NON-ASSOCIATED programs that were readily available , and created by the manufacturer Qualcomm.... (because they cannot come at me, for apps that EVERYONE already can dl.... ) WELL UPDATE: Yesterday 12/26 around 9:39pm Central i received another FORMAL "Cease and Desist Order" from Oppo/BBK... but this time it was informing me that they intend to press Qualcomm into filing an official complaint against me, for "Copyright Infringement" , and "Illegally Accessing Unauthorized Applications by Qualcomm, to Reverse Engineer their security" ... <=== my lawyer laughed at this one.... but im not... and now i must tell you that "officially" i cannot release a public tool, if in fact i am able to mitigate their security. Under the "Bug Bounty" Programs offered by both Google, and Qualcomm, I have FULL AUTHORITY to continue researching the same thing i was doing prior to the letters. Oppo cannot TRUMP both Qualcomm, and Google who expressly approve hackers and security testers WITHOUT RESTRICTION, to do whatever we have to, in order to break their respective programs, AS LONG AS I USE THE FAIR REPORTING PRACTICES, AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE BUG/EXPLOIT FOUND... and then Once they acknowledge receipt of the complete process, a 90-day counter begins, and UNTIL THAT EXPIRES, i am not allowed to disclose, ,or discuss any specifics regarding what i have found, in order to give them adequate time to patch/replace the vulnerable process/application.
NOW HERE IS WHY I AM WRITING THIS NOTICE.... I was contacted BY VOICE, by a Qualcomm Technical Support Administrator, who was actually trying to reach out to THE PERSON WHO REPORTED ME TO OPPO.... TMOBILE ..... GOOGLE AND QUALCOMM.!!!!
I played along and when they asked me about what i was trying to report exactly, i asked them to read me back just what i had sent them , because I was "busy over the past few days, and had made several reports, so i needed a refresh of which report it was...."
They read me back THE ENTIRE EMAIL, including the header, which stated the Email address, as well as the Username (???) and then in the first sentence, they said, "Hello.... I'm sorry to contact you this way, but i did not locate any other means of contact to report criminal activity being performed on your applications and devices. My name is <XDA-NAME> ,and im a member at XDA-Developers, who has seen some alarming discussions regarding your newest Smartphone processor, and also the applications you use to interact with them... I cant go into too much detail here, because it would take much more than i feel comfortable typing, but it is urgent that you contact me regarding the XDA USER: "Beatbreakee" . I have acquired his contact email, and phone from online public data channels, and i will include those at the bottom, but you need to act fast and stop this hacker, before he creates a serious security risk in your company!"
Followed by a jumble of Email addresses... only 1 which was mine.... and several phone numbers from WAY BACK... that i havent had in years, but also one current number... which they mistakenly called ME instead of him.
So i first off want this to be noted that i have ZERO intention of revealing who the "Concerned Citizen" was that felt that my usage of the READILY AVAILABLE DOWNLOADS of QPST, and QXDM were of such a nefarious intent! So plz dont ask, because i dont Dox people.... I leave that to politicians and tv journalists....
I just wanted everyone who takes the time to read this, to be AWARE that you really cannot trust ANYONE you dont have a good repertoire with... and be advised that some of the people who ask for help, and also have EXTREMELY SPECIFIC questions pertaining to some thing youre discussing, may have totally malicious intentions as to how they use the info you tell them.
All i can say is that the user REALLY reported me, BECAUSE I WAS BOISTEROUSLY EXCLAIMING THAT I INTEND TO BUILD A FREE, OFFLINE, UNBRICK TOOL, TO STOP THE EXTORTION BY PPL WHO HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO CHARGE US FOR A SOLUTION WHICH SHOULD BE FREE.....
In other words, they snitched me out so i wouldnt hurt their gestapo over fixing our phones..... (Kinda trashy.... dontcha think!)
But thats all the details i can provide ... sorry i wont break America , any more than it already is.... So you get to stay in the shadows PERSON.... But you should know that NOW i have the green light to use any available programs/software within public domain, in order to achieve my intended goal.... because all i have to do is make the report to QualComm because THEY INVENTED AND DO THE CODING FOR THE MSMTOOL.... NOT OPPO! ..... good try! (oh and i told them EXACTLY what i was attempting to do, which is how i learned of their bug bounty... and they not only were not concerned... but they laughed because the versions we have around on the internet, are SEVERAL YEARS behind the current tools, and are neutered enough to not pose a security risk!)
So i will continue to work diligently people... but if i find success, i wont be able to give any disclosure other than confirmation, and then it will take 90 days before i can actually say something legally! This sucks, cuz we need the tool NOW.... and the Oneplus 11 is being released In January in China! (Yikes)
ok thats all.... Happy New Year everyone...... (including the person who wants our devices to stay bricked unless we pay them!)
If they sue you, just defend yourself saying that they are doing illegal activity also by blocking the user device to be repaired by third party.
This in America and Europe is illegal so they can't do anything about it.
I really wanna take a guess and say that the "certain someone" once ran around here proudly proclaiming that MSM can never be hacked and we must always pay.
This is disgusting. Make sure to forward this post to all the tech blogs and get some proof over to some people (redacted obviously). OnePlus/Oppo need to be taken to task for this. The fact that they intentionally changed packages in order to brick people trying to change regions is actually something they can be sued to oblivion for and you have all the proof. A company cannot knowingly cause damage to someone's property like that.
Also, this cements my choice to never have anything to do with OnePlus again.
That really sucks. It's probably that OppoTech123 scammer who claims to be illegally leaking OPPO MSM tools, just to charge you to use it.
g96818 said:
That really sucks. It's probably that OppoTech123 scammer who claims to be illegally leaking OPPO MSM tools, just to charge you to use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It absolutely is. There's nobody else who would gain from this that has been participating in those threads. I mean... the username is literally OppoTech...
Ph0nysk1nk said:
I really wanna take a guess and say that the "certain someone" once ran around here proudly proclaiming that MSM can never be hacked and we must always pay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unfortunately i cant really confirm or deny anyone... but i will point out this... look into the thread on our 10 Pro forum, where i dropped what ive tried... completed... how i came up with the idea... who helped me in the right direction, and what i was planning as my next steps... Then you will be able to get a list of users who you can each do your own sleuthing.
Again this is not to identify the person directly... but if I was someone who felt deceived or wanted to know who i could eliminate from my conversations and dm's when they REPEATEDLY ask the same or similar questions in other XDA forums for other devices by the same mfg.... I would compile a list of everyone in that thread, then cross off every name that i know has a good rep here, all of the ppl that i have a history with... followed by any names of members who are moderators, or have threads of their own which they provided FREE, instructions/applications for helping remove or mitigate some form of restriction. (root... custom kernel... rom.... bootloader... etc) and then the list of remaining names should be pretty short. Finally take out any SENIOR members, because most ppl who reach that status are OG and not a heartless CASH GRABBER who is only here to spy for his clan of thieves, extorting ppl in need of assistance. Finally take the final few names, and check out all of their posts and replies to see if they follow a pattern , and also if they are only on threads of devices by the same manufacturer.
Any names beyond all those categories, i would NOT do DM's with, or reply directly to any informational requests from those users. ESPECIALLY if they advocate some form of payment to themselves for services that are requested in Crypto. All red flags, and reason for suspicion. But thats just my opinion of how i would decipher and determine exactly who i will stay away from. But actually its worse, because NOW weve been informed that we have ppl here who will sabotage and drop FALSE accusations in formal reports to companies, just so they can keep making $100 a week, by eliminating the people who are working on a "Free For All" solution....
Just sayin'
I mean REALLY... they straight up called me a "Malicious Hacker", who is trying to destroy the security of all their devices! .... How am i trying to destroy ANYTHING? When im actually just trying to give users a reason to still buy OnePlus devices.
Cuz when they release the 11 in a few months... i truly believe their sales are gonna decline almost 10% worldwide! And MAYBE if the company saw that several community members were working on ways to make a tool that FIXES the issue they created... they might rethink their rollout and drop us a repair tool when it drops...
It has been a long time since I have participated in any forum at all, but this, oh my god THIS.. it is on an another level.
First of all, many thanks to you and to all members who are trying very hard to give free of charge support, and fk these trash companies. Your times and efforts are appreciated.
I was deeply involved in the warez long time ago, and I just want to say that cracking/patching the MSM tool is not that hard. In fact, it is a very easy process compared to what I have experienced and witnessed with more complicated protections. It takes one dedicated releasing group to do the job once and for all.
I hope that one group will see this post, take it personally (which they usually do xD) and give OP and its team who is certainly reading the treatment they deserve.
This post proves that they are going for the money, nothing else. Hope people who said the rubbish bla bla bla of protecting devices, security issues, etc will change their bunk mindsets.
Thanks again, and hope you will be safe.
Gamenexus, LTT, UnboxTherapy should receive this info.
They reach a great amount of people and then it will have some repercussion.
And as I said, if they do anything just do it back, the amout you're gonna receive is far bigger.
beatbreakee said:
I apologize for the title, but this is relevant to Oneplus 10 Pro.
On approx Nov 12th last month, i joined heavily in the discussion regarding Region changing, or using MSM Tool to flash a different fw for our devices. That same day i successfully jumped from the 2419 Tmobile branded fw, to the 2415 Global FW, without a hitch. I then immediately posted success replies to those who were interested. In the 1st full reply regarding my process, i identified several "requirements" in both editing an accompanying file, as well as which version(s) were needed in order to do the jumps. Exactly 3 days later, OPPO took down their official posting that linked to the Rollback packages, and the Beta 1 Android 13 builds to download including the local update apks needed. Seamlessly they linked an identical page with NEW links to download, that had the same names almost. (i have screenshots of the file size differences for proof) ... but almost 70% of you all who attempted my instructions, but downloaded the UPDATED packages, resulted in a bootloop, or unresponsive device!
1st... im sorry for that! When i hard linked the files that i KNEW worked, i never expected oneplus to be sneaky and change the contents, but keep my links headed to these newer packages... I just really did not fathom a company which we all used to support, turning against us in an act of really sinister nature. They had to be aware that once these files were changed out, it would create numerous bootloops and bricks, yet they would not provide us an Unbrick method.
I addressed the altered files swiftly once i verified the changes, and then began urging people to be careful and also realize that there were new things that were done to the FW and i did not have any ideas how they would react, especially on the Tmobile Variants of the 10 Pro and 10 T... but i made THIS FORUM, my ground zero because doing the same method WORKED on the 10 Pro... but after a few modifications, i was stuck in the Unresponsive Brick state ppl were encountering.
(My 10T still worked like a champ though, which confused me as usually OLDER devices have less structural security than newer ones, and the 10 pro was almost a year older!! To Assume something makes an A** of U & ME.)
So with this forum as ground zero, it was where i was focusing probably close to 30-40 hrs a week, trying to troubleshoot and collaborate with other Devs/users about methods to break the MSM TOOL Authentication, so we would all have a WORKING, UNBRICK TOOL, that no one had to send some person a crypto payment to then let them log into your computer! (Stranger Danger!!!!)
It seemed like every time we had SOME MEASURE of success, either by luck, or even finding an alternative tool not meant for this device, that was capable of a successful flash.... we were instantly "knee-capped" by a sniper, and either the new tool no longer functioned properly or it outright broke.... (Secrecy Tool... used to unlock crucial Engineering Mode sections got blucked thru the instructed installation, with no new solution.... which also somehow there are screenshots of an Engineering app, RUNNING ON A ONEPLUS 10 Pro, that had 3 or 4 more options than we do.... hmmm) Anyways just one example of an OPPO intervention.
I have helped with SAMSUNG Root exploits that were SERIOUS flaws, and it took Samsung a few weeks to try patching... BUT I KNOW that BBK, with all the 40 different devices released each year, DOES NOT have a team dedicated to scouring for OUR semi-glitchy NON WORKING theories. (1st clue)
Anyways, here is the main point.... About 2 weeks ago i revealed that i was going ALL IN on finding a way to give us an MSM Flash tool that would bypass all the login stuff and let us do a local UNBRICK FLASH. I gave a few too many clues as to what my Goal Line was looking at. In about 24 hrs i was sent a "Cease and Desist Order" via email, to an address that is not associated to either THIS account on XDA, nor ANY account connected to the Oneplus Community. It was an address linked to a Qualcomm Developer profile i created, and another Android development site. Yet that site doesn't have any info linking to XDA. (2nd clue)
After the 1st order i got... i received a less formal , but just as direct email, from BBK/Oppo requesting that i stop ANY reverse engineering activity that they are now aware of my actions, and failure to comply, or if a release of any tool that had identifying data which could be proven as OPPO programming tools, they would refer my actions to the Department of Justice, cyber crimes division. I TOOK THAT ONE SERIOUSLY, and notified my family attorney! .... I then just within the past 48 hours posted some updates, as well as theories regarding other NON-ASSOCIATED programs that were readily available , and created by the manufacturer Qualcomm.... (because they cannot come at me, for apps that EVERYONE already can dl.... ) WELL UPDATE: Yesterday 12/26 around 9:39pm Central i received another FORMAL "Cease and Desist Order" from Oppo/BBK... but this time it was informing me that they intend to press Qualcomm into filing an official complaint against me, for "Copyright Infringement" , and "Illegally Accessing Unauthorized Applications by Qualcomm, to Reverse Engineer their security" ... <=== my lawyer laughed at this one.... but im not... and now i must tell you that "officially" i cannot release a public tool, if in fact i am able to mitigate their security. Under the "Bug Bounty" Programs offered by both Google, and Qualcomm, I have FULL AUTHORITY to continue researching the same thing i was doing prior to the letters. Oppo cannot TRUMP both Qualcomm, and Google who expressly approve hackers and security testers WITHOUT RESTRICTION, to do whatever we have to, in order to break their respective programs, AS LONG AS I USE THE FAIR REPORTING PRACTICES, AND NOTIFY THEM OF THE BUG/EXPLOIT FOUND... and then Once they acknowledge receipt of the complete process, a 90-day counter begins, and UNTIL THAT EXPIRES, i am not allowed to disclose, ,or discuss any specifics regarding what i have found, in order to give them adequate time to patch/replace the vulnerable process/application.
NOW HERE IS WHY I AM WRITING THIS NOTICE.... I was contacted BY VOICE, by a Qualcomm Technical Support Administrator, who was actually trying to reach out to THE PERSON WHO REPORTED ME TO OPPO.... TMOBILE ..... GOOGLE AND QUALCOMM.!!!!
I played along and when they asked me about what i was trying to report exactly, i asked them to read me back just what i had sent them , because I was "busy over the past few days, and had made several reports, so i needed a refresh of which report it was...."
They read me back THE ENTIRE EMAIL, including the header, which stated the Email address, as well as the Username (???) and then in the first sentence, they said, "Hello.... I'm sorry to contact you this way, but i did not locate any other means of contact to report criminal activity being performed on your applications and devices. My name is <XDA-NAME> ,and im a member at XDA-Developers, who has seen some alarming discussions regarding your newest Smartphone processor, and also the applications you use to interact with them... I cant go into too much detail here, because it would take much more than i feel comfortable typing, but it is urgent that you contact me regarding the XDA USER: "Beatbreakee" . I have acquired his contact email, and phone from online public data channels, and i will include those at the bottom, but you need to act fast and stop this hacker, before he creates a serious security risk in your company!"
Followed by a jumble of Email addresses... only 1 which was mine.... and several phone numbers from WAY BACK... that i havent had in years, but also one current number... which they mistakenly called ME instead of him.
So i first off want this to be noted that i have ZERO intention of revealing who the "Concerned Citizen" was that felt that my usage of the READILY AVAILABLE DOWNLOADS of QPST, and QXDM were of such a nefarious intent! So plz dont ask, because i dont Dox people.... I leave that to politicians and tv journalists....
I just wanted everyone who takes the time to read this, to be AWARE that you really cannot trust ANYONE you dont have a good repertoire with... and be advised that some of the people who ask for help, and also have EXTREMELY SPECIFIC questions pertaining to some thing youre discussing, may have totally malicious intentions as to how they use the info you tell them.
All i can say is that the user REALLY reported me, BECAUSE I WAS BOISTEROUSLY EXCLAIMING THAT I INTEND TO BUILD A FREE, OFFLINE, UNBRICK TOOL, TO STOP THE EXTORTION BY PPL WHO HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO CHARGE US FOR A SOLUTION WHICH SHOULD BE FREE.....
In other words, they snitched me out so i wouldnt hurt their gestapo over fixing our phones..... (Kinda trashy.... dontcha think!)
But thats all the details i can provide ... sorry i wont break America , any more than it already is.... So you get to stay in the shadows PERSON.... But you should know that NOW i have the green light to use any available programs/software within public domain, in order to achieve my intended goal.... because all i have to do is make the report to QualComm because THEY INVENTED AND DO THE CODING FOR THE MSMTOOL.... NOT OPPO! ..... good try! (oh and i told them EXACTLY what i was attempting to do, which is how i learned of their bug bounty... and they not only were not concerned... but they laughed because the versions we have around on the internet, are SEVERAL YEARS behind the current tools, and are neutered enough to not pose a security risk!)
So i will continue to work diligently people... but if i find success, i wont be able to give any disclosure other than confirmation, and then it will take 90 days before i can actually say something legally! This sucks, cuz we need the tool NOW.... and the Oneplus 11 is being released In January in China! (Yikes)
ok thats all.... Happy New Year everyone...... (including the person who wants our devices to stay bricked unless we pay them!)
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So I'm a Qualcomm developer with licensing and I would like to talk to you for one I have information in code that you probably can use for your benefit I am personally not able to do this as I don't have a running computer at the moment I get a hold of me in private message and I can add you on discord we can talk and under no circumstances is a vendor have rights to software that is not made by them nor by their use of it or even the restriction of it is against Qualcomm licensing like I'm his bypass tools for the login information flash tools such as the MSM tool but then they solves have stopped using it back in 2016 and 2017 they're using a different type of tool now which I will not say publicly but if you want more information get a hold of me (then it was designed to be free and it should remain free that is the whole point of Open source development.
One more thing I did back up the any version of the file they switched cuz I'm noticing what you're talking about so when I go to my about phone section where it says color OS is completely different fun and completely changed plus the weight scaling font is no longer called the one font but oppo so if you need me to link the Google drive file so you can have access to the one that works cuz I used your method I have a hard copy for the na 2417 version
That is just messed up ...Its funny i went on XDA today and had a PM asking if it was me who reported you...I thought to myself who would report anybody for trying to figure out a way to help everyone who has or have a Xucked up Oneplus
phone . I have killed my phone many times to help figure this out. I have actually paid for someone to flash my phone and try to log all the info. Illegal maybe ..but would be worth it ...to get a MSM working tool to fix our phones.
Oh by the way I hope you Figure this MSM tool out ...I would help if I could code and stuff like what you do. Thumbs UP to you
Canuck Knarf said:
That is just messed up ...Its funny i went on XDA today and had a PM asking if it was me who reported you...I thought to myself who would report anybody for trying to figure out a way to help everyone who has or have a Xucked up Oneplus
phone . I have killed my phone many times to help figure this out. I have actually paid for someone to flash my phone and try to log all the info. Illegal maybe ..but would be worth it ...to get a MSM working tool to fix our phones.
Oh by the way I hope you Figure this MSM tool out ...I would help if I could code and stuff like what you do. Thumbs UP to you
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If you're running a computer I didn't know how to code I just don't have her any computer if I'd come has software to bypass things locking up their phones so they can be flashed anyways.
Courage! I hope it doesn't come to a suit
O
beatbreakee said:
unfortunately i cant really confirm or deny anyone... but i will point out this... look into the thread on our 10 Pro forum, where i dropped what ive tried... completed... how i came up with the idea... who helped me in the right direction, and what i was planning as my next steps... Then you will be able to get a list of users who you can each do your own sleuthing.
Again this is not to identify the person directly... but if I was someone who felt deceived or wanted to know who i could eliminate from my conversations and dm's when they REPEATEDLY ask the same or similar questions in other XDA forums for other devices by the same mfg.... I would compile a list of everyone in that thread, then cross off every name that i know has a good rep here, all of the ppl that i have a history with... followed by any names of members who are moderators, or have threads of their own which they provided FREE, instructions/applications for helping remove or mitigate some form of restriction. (root... custom kernel... rom.... bootloader... etc) and then the list of remaining names should be pretty short. Finally take out any SENIOR members, because most ppl who reach that status are OG and not a heartless CASH GRABBER who is only here to spy for his clan of thieves, extorting ppl in need of assistance. Finally take the final few names, and check out all of their posts and replies to see if they follow a pattern , and also if they are only on threads of devices by the same manufacturer.
Any names beyond all those categories, i would NOT do DM's with, or reply directly to any informational requests from those users. ESPECIALLY if they advocate some form of payment to themselves for services that are requested in Crypto. All red flags, and reason for suspicion. But thats just my opinion of how i would decipher and determine exactly who i will stay away from. But actually its worse, because NOW weve been informed that we have ppl here who will sabotage and drop FALSE accusations in formal reports to companies, just so they can keep making $100 a week, by eliminating the people who are working on a "Free For All" solution....
Just sayin'
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Oh believe me. Even without having to take a refresher, instantly two "accounts" stuck out to me because both of their ****ty attitudes, demandment of payment, and an unfortunate DM with one of them privately expressing MSM cannot be cracked and I must pay him and his friend
I have a hard time thinking of anyone else
Ph0nysk1nk said:
Oh believe me. Even without having to take a refresher, instantly two "accounts" stuck out to me because both of their ****ty attitudes, demandment of payment, and an unfortunate DM with one of them privately expressing MSM cannot be cracked and I must pay him and his friend
I have a hard time thinking of anyone else
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C'mon man, my $100 a week livelihood is at stake here!!! Bwahahahahahahahaha, these kinds of people are too sad to even deal with. Keeping such things private that have long since been public, it's so sad it's despicable.
This is freaking unbelievable
I wish you all the very best on figuring out the msmtool and disrupt that [email protected]# 100$ a week income source
AkayamiShurui said:
One more thing I did back up the any version of the file they switched cuz I'm noticing what you're talking about so when I go to my about phone section where it says color OS is completely different fun and completely changed plus the weight scaling font is no longer called the one font but oppo so if you need me to link the Google drive file so you can have access to the one that works cuz I used your method I have a hard copy for the na 2417 version
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thanks man... luckily i downloaded all the FW that were on the original post too... i only wish i had been a luckier person and bought my 10T prior to June. Cuz the 1st groups here that were working on rooting the 10Pro, and 10T , spooked Oppo into removing Fastboot directly from the rom. I would love access to the newer tools that QC uses. And im not doing anything that they would consider illegal , since i was directly told that "Any app that is leaked, or released is well documented prior to it hitting any public servers, because they supposedly keep a tight leash on active programming applications, and the only ones that make it to a state that can be 'hard copied' is apps that are decommissioned as out of date and unsupported. So if any app is found and functional, it can be freely used without any fear of legal action." They actually encouraged the use of "Found" Qualcomm apps, because it might reveal another security flaw that they need knowledge of so they can patch it in future versions.
But i appreciate the offer. Its just nice having someone else who can personally confirm what i stated about them changing the files. Companies like OPPO/BBK dont have the resources to dedicate a division to combing the whole internet looking for clues as to what HAS and HASNT been successful in bypassing their security. They rely on ppl like the one who tried snitching me out, and the actual chip mfg reports to change anything related. But the qualcomm guy i talked to seemed rather surprised when i mentioned "Charging a fee to people who brick their phones, to use the MSM Tool and recover it!" .... lol i dropped that bit of info on purpose, cuz if ANYTHING is illegal, it is THEM charging money for something Qualcomm intended to be used by repair techs for free!
beatbreakee said:
thanks man... luckily i downloaded all the FW that were on the original post too... i only wish i had been a luckier person and bought my 10T prior to June. Cuz the 1st groups here that were working on rooting the 10Pro, and 10T , spooked Oppo into removing Fastboot directly from the rom. I would love access to the newer tools that QC uses. And im not doing anything that they would consider illegal , since i was directly told that "Any app that is leaked, or released is well documented prior to it hitting any public servers, because they supposedly keep a tight leash on active programming applications, and the only ones that make it to a state that can be 'hard copied' is apps that are decommissioned as out of date and unsupported. So if any app is found and functional, it can be freely used without any fear of legal action." They actually encouraged the use of "Found" Qualcomm apps, because it might reveal another security flaw that they need knowledge of so they can patch it in future versions.
But i appreciate the offer. Its just nice having someone else who can personally confirm what i stated about them changing the files. Companies like OPPO/BBK dont have the resources to dedicate a division to combing the whole internet looking for clues as to what HAS and HASNT been successful in bypassing their security. They rely on ppl like the one who tried snitching me out, and the actual chip mfg reports to change anything related. But the qualcomm guy i talked to seemed rather surprised when i mentioned "Charging a fee to people who brick their phones, to use the MSM Tool and recover it!" .... lol i dropped that bit of info on purpose, cuz if ANYTHING is illegal, it is THEM charging money for something Qualcomm intended to be used by repair techs for free!
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Like I said I'm a licensed user from so I have to stay on the guidelines of license so you'll be fine, but they have a bypass tool and other really nice tools like if you flash the wrong ram they got a tool for fixing the ram. Anyway I'll send you my discord