Download from the Store.
I purchased a Sony Bravia KDL-40EX525 a few months ago and noticed that there were official remote control apps for Android and iPhone from Sony but, unfortunatelly, not for WP7 (not even an unofficial one). Since I own a LG Optimus 7 I got curious about this and started to develop something similar for myself, specifically because I hate using the stock remote control to enter text.
I based my work on this blog post http://blogs.msdn.com/b/andypennell...ws-phone-7-5-mango-part-1-ssdp-discovery.aspx. Many thanks to Andy Pennell for that, his post was really helpful and a great starting point.
The app requires you to be on the same network as the TV.
If you want to try this make sure the TV is ON (give it time to initialize the services. It cannot be turned on/off with this app because it has to talk to the IRCC service that is only available when the device is ON). See the screen of your TV the first time you run the app because it requires that you register your device in order to be able to iterate.
I appreciate your feedbacks, suggestions, bug report or questions that you may have.
Tested on models:
- KDL-40EX525 (mine)
- KDL-32HX758 (thanks lordmaxey)
It should work on:
- Blu-ray Disc(TM) players: BDP-S370, S470, S570, S770, S1700, BX37, BX57, S380, S480, S580, S780, BX38, BX58, S390, S490, S590, S790, BX39, BX59, NSZ-GP9
- Blu-ray Disc(TM) Home Theater Systems: BDV-IZ1000W, HZ970W, E970W, E870, E770W, E670W, E570, E470, E370, T57, F7, F700, F500, E985W, E980W, E980, E880, E780W, E580, E380, T58, L800M, L800, L600, N990W, N890W, N790W, N590, E690, E490, E385, E390, E290, E190, NF720, NF620, EF420, EF220, T79, T39
- Streaming Player/Network Media Player: SMP-N100, SMP-N200, NSZ-GP7
- AV Receiver: STR-DN1020, STR-DN1030, STR-DA1800ES
- BRAVIA: KDL-HX92 series, HX82 series, HX72 series, NX72 series, EX72 series, EX62 series, EX52 series, EX42 series, EX32 series, CX52 series, HX85 series, HX75 series, EX65 series, EX55 series
- Sony Internet TV: NSX-24GT1, 32GT1, 40GT1, 46GT1, NSZ-GT1
- VAIO: VAIO L (SVL241)
wow, awesome!
I'll try immediately when i'm home.
lordmaxey said:
wow, awesome!
I'll try immediately when i'm home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great! if you can post your TV model it will be greatly apprecciated so we can add it to the "tested list" of models.
etrosce said:
Great! if you can post your TV model it will be greatly apprecciated so we can add it to the "tested list" of models.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi there,
i've got a Sony Bravia KDL-32HX758
I'll tell you when i've tested it looking forward!
Edit:
one word: awesome!
It works great and i absolutely LOVE it!! Great work!!! Congrats!
lordmaxey said:
Hi there,
i've got a Sony Bravia KDL-32HX758
I'll tell you when i've tested it looking forward!
Edit:
one word: awesome!
It works great and i absolutely LOVE it!! Great work!!! Congrats!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks and enjoy :good:. I've just updated the post to list the models we know it works... Hope to see more feedback here
Hi!
I wanted to try your app, but my television (w655) didn't want to agree on that.
Are you maybe willing to share the source code of the app?
Or do you want to check why it's not working?
Thanks!
mendel129 said:
Hi!
I wanted to try your app, but my television (w655) didn't want to agree on that.
Are you maybe willing to share the source code of the app?
Or do you want to check why it's not working?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there,
I've been researching a little bit about it before. It looks like Sony changed completely the way to remote control in latest models, specially W series. No documentation about that. So, the only way to try to discover how it works now, is to have a W series to try with (which I do not have)
Sorry about that.
What you can do is try to discover how the new service works by yourself, so we can expand the compatibility of the App. If you are interested, I can guide you with some clues, tools and techinches I used in the past to do so.
I may open the code, I haven't even considered it but I think it's a good idea.
etrosce said:
Hey there,
I've been researching a little bit about it before. It looks like Sony changed completely the way to remote control in latest models, specially W series. No documentation about that. So, the only way to try to discover how it works now, is to have a W series to try with (which I do not have)
Sorry about that.
What you can do is try to discover how the new service works by yourself, so we can expand the compatibility of the App. If you are interested, I can guide you with some clues, tools and techinches I used in the past to do so.
I may open the code, I haven't even considered it but I think it's a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been playing with our 2013 model a couple of days now, and it seems the controls still works (compatible with 2012) but the registration process is not necessary anymore...
Anyway, if you put the code somehwere, i'll try if it works somehow
thanks!
mendel129 said:
I've been playing with our 2013 model a couple of days now, and it seems the controls still works (compatible with 2012) but the registration process is not necessary anymore...
Anyway, if you put the code somehwere, i'll try if it works somehow
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds good, give me a couple of days to set it up and will let you know.
In the meantime, does your device description xml look like this one? http://www.upnp-database.info/device.jsp?deviceId=662 (See Description XML tab). If so, you may want to try ScalarWebAPI service on your modes. In that xml you can get some urls that will return some valuable (or not) information that may give you some clues.
Stay tunned,
Esteban
i have Klv 32EX330
how can i to make it working with this app
life25ak said:
i have Klv 32EX330
how can i to make it working with this app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure you model actually supports to be remote controlled as it isn't event listed by sony as supported (see supported models above).
Does the app find your model? (be sure both are connected to the same lan)
etrosce said:
I'm not sure you model actually supports to be remote controlled as it isn't event listed by sony as supported (see supported models above).
Does the app find your model? (be sure both are connected to the same lan)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no doesnt
thank you so much
life25ak said:
no doesnt
thank you so much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm afraid, as I said before, it does not provides de services required for remote control support. Sorry.
etrosce said:
Sounds good, give me a couple of days to set it up and will let you know.
In the meantime, does your device description xml look like this one? http://www.upnp-database.info/device.jsp?deviceId=662 (See Description XML tab). If so, you may want to try ScalarWebAPI service on your modes. In that xml you can get some urls that will return some valuable (or not) information that may give you some clues.
Stay tunned,
Esteban
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey man,
so, I gathered some information, please check following xml-files
http://mendelonline.be/sony/
Also, almost all commands from vremote (http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html) are actually working
mendel129 said:
Hey man,
so, I gathered some information, please check following xml-files
http://mendelonline.be/sony/
Also, almost all commands from vremote (http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html) are actually working
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, sorry for the delay on sharing the code, I changed laptop and had to re-setup my dev env. Will try to have it done for the weekend.
In the meantime...I wonder what all this urls return:
http://192.168.1.54/sony/guide
http://192.168.1.54/sony/system
....
http://192.168.1.54/sony/irCommandProxy
Basically everything under <av:X_ScalarWebAPI_ServiceList> from dmr.xml. Actually, I would try any url available in that file
We should see where getRemoteCommandList api is located (together with other relevant APIs)
In previous models it was returned as a result from http://192.168.1.54/cers/ActionList.xml. It should be somewhere else now.
Also, did you confirmed that there is no registration required now at all?
Thanks!!!
etrosce said:
Hey, sorry for the delay on sharing the code, I changed laptop and had to re-setup my dev env. Will try to have it done for the weekend.
In the meantime...I wonder what all this urls return:
http://192.168.1.54/sony/guide
http://192.168.1.54/sony/system
....
http://192.168.1.54/sony/irCommandProxy
Basically everything under <av:X_ScalarWebAPI_ServiceList> from dmr.xml. Actually, I would try any url available in that file
--edit--
ok, we've got an entire json conversation going to http://ip:80/sony/system
We should see where getRemoteCommandList api is located (together with other relevant APIs)
In previous models it was returned as a result from http://192.168.1.54/cers/ActionList.xml. It should be somewhere else now.
Also, did you confirmed that there is no registration required now at all?
Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem, didn't had time myself
Well, there basically 2 webservers/-services running.
One nginx on tcp:80, and something else on tcp:52323 (tcp header contains: Server=Linux/2.6 UPnP/1.0 KDL-42W655A/1.7)
actionlist is "gone", but i'm trying to capture network traffic from the official sony app to figure out the new location
--edit--
ok, so there's an entire "json conversation" going on http://ip:80/sony/system
--edit2--
bingo
--edit--
send this json command:
{"id":20,"method":"getRemoteControllerInfo","version":"1.0","params":[]}
to
http://192.168.1.61/sony/system
and this comes back as return:
{"id":20,"result":[{"bundled":true,"type":"RM-J1100"},[{"name":"PowerOff","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAvAw=="},{"name":"Input","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAlAw=="},{"name":"GGuide","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAOAw=="},{"name":"EPG","value":"AAAAAgAAAKQAAABbAw=="},{"name":"Favorites","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAAB2Aw=="},{"name":"Display","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAA6Aw=="},{"name":"Home","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAABgAw=="},{"name":"Options","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAA2Aw=="},{"name":"Return","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAjAw=="},{"name":"Up","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAB0Aw=="},{"name":"Down","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAB1Aw=="},{"name":"Right","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAzAw=="},{"name":"Left","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAA0Aw=="},{"name":"Confirm","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAABlAw=="},{"name":"Red","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAlAw=="},{"name":"Green","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAmAw=="},{"name":"Yellow","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAnAw=="},{"name":"Blue","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAkAw=="},{"name":"Num1","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAw=="},{"name":"Num2","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAABAw=="},{"name":"Num3","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAACAw=="},{"name":"Num4","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAADAw=="},{"name":"Num5","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAEAw=="},{"name":"Num6","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAFAw=="},{"name":"Num7","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAGAw=="},{"name":"Num8","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAHAw=="},{"name":"Num9","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAIAw=="},{"name":"Num0","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAJAw=="},{"name":"Num11","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAKAw=="},{"name":"Num12","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAALAw=="},{"name":"VolumeUp","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAASAw=="},{"name":"VolumeDown","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAATAw=="},{"name":"Mute","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAUAw=="},{"name":"ChannelUp","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAQAw=="},{"name":"ChannelDown","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAARAw=="},{"name":"SubTitle","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAoAw=="},{"name":"ClosedCaption","value":"AAAAAgAAAKQAAAAQAw=="},{"name":"Enter","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAALAw=="},{"name":"DOT","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAdAw=="},{"name":"Analog","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAAANAw=="},{"name":"Teletext","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAA/Aw=="},{"name":"Exit","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAABjAw=="},{"name":"Analog2","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAA4Aw=="},{"name":"*AD","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAA7Aw=="},{"name":"Digital","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAyAw=="},{"name":"Analog?","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAuAw=="},{"name":"BS","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAsAw=="},{"name":"CS","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAArAw=="},{"name":"BSCS","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAQAw=="},{"name":"Ddata","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAVAw=="},{"name":"PicOff","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAA+Aw=="},{"name":"Tv_Radio","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABXAw=="},{"name":"Theater","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAABgAw=="},{"name":"SEN","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB9Aw=="},{"name":"InternetWidgets","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB6Aw=="},{"name":"InternetVideo","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB5Aw=="},{"name":"Netflix","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB8Aw=="},{"name":"SceneSelect","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB4Aw=="},{"name":"Mode3D","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAABNAw=="},{"name":"iManual","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB7Aw=="},{"name":"Audio","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAAXAw=="},{"name":"Wide","value":"AAAAAgAAAKQAAAA9Aw=="},{"name":"Jump","value":"AAAAAQAAAAEAAAA7Aw=="},{"name":"PAP","value":"AAAAAgAAAKQAAAB3Aw=="},{"name":"MyEPG","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAABrAw=="},{"name":"ProgramDescription","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAWAw=="},{"name":"WriteChapter","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAABsAw=="},{"name":"TrackID","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB+Aw=="},{"name":"TenKey","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAMAw=="},{"name":"AppliCast","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABvAw=="},{"name":"acTVila","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAByAw=="},{"name":"DeleteVideo","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAAAfAw=="},{"name":"PhotoFrame","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABVAw=="},{"name":"TvPause","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABnAw=="},{"name":"KeyPad","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAAB1Aw=="},{"name":"Media","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAA4Aw=="},{"name":"SyncMenu","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABYAw=="},{"name":"Forward","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAcAw=="},{"name":"Play","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAaAw=="},{"name":"Rewind","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAbAw=="},{"name":"Prev","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAA8Aw=="},{"name":"Stop","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAYAw=="},{"name":"Next","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAA9Aw=="},{"name":"Rec","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAgAw=="},{"name":"Pause","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAAZAw=="},{"name":"Eject","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAABIAw=="},{"name":"FlashPlus","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAB4Aw=="},{"name":"FlashMinus","value":"AAAAAgAAAJcAAAB5Aw=="},{"name":"TopMenu","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABgAw=="},{"name":"PopUpMenu","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABhAw=="},{"name":"RakurakuStart","value":"AAAAAgAAAHcAAABqAw=="},{"name":"OneTouchTimeRec","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABkAw=="},{"name":"OneTouchView","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABlAw=="},{"name":"OneTouchRec","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABiAw=="},{"name":"OneTouchStop","value":"AAAAAgAAABoAAABjAw=="}]]}
mendel129 said:
No problem, didn't had time myself
Well, there basically 2 webservers/-services running.
One nginx on tcp:80, and something else on tcp:52323 (tcp header contains: Server=Linux/2.6 UPnP/1.0 KDL-42W655A/1.7)
actionlist is "gone", but i'm trying to capture network traffic from the official sony app to figure out the new location
--edit--
ok, so there's an entire "json conversation" going on http://ip:80/sony/system
--edit2--
bingo
....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is all good. It would be great if we find the url that actually returns the list of APIs. Have you tried http://ip:80/sony/system to see what it returns in the browser?
etrosce said:
This is all good. It would be great if we find the url that actually returns the list of APIs. Have you tried http://ip:80/sony/system to see what it returns in the browser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just browsing to the "site" just gives an empty page...
it only reply's on json requests
all commands i've found so far are from capturing traffic from my android tablet
check here: http://mendelonline.be/sony/sony.txt
further, the "register" function exists, but it not really necesarry...
i noticed the sony tablet app registering, but i can just send commands from upnpspy directly from my pc without registering...
another thingy: wol is just basic wake on lan
I received an email from the creator of the windows app that works for our 2013 model bravia. (http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#sony_virtual_remote)
Hi,
I would like to share my experiences with you, maybe it can help in the
investigation of the new API structure.
1. The registered status is not required in 2011/12 Sony TV models either to
send pure IRCC SOAP messages (or use the X_SendIRCC UPnP service) .
2. The registered status is required to get meaningful response from url
based API functions (e.g sendText, getText, getRemoteCommandList etc..)
So just an idea: You should try to test these new URL based commands with a
registered status. To achieve this:
1. You should make a new registration and send these data with your browser
2. Use an existing registration e.g. Falcosoft's Sony Virtual Remote and
send the program's data with your browser.
I suggest to use Firefox with Modify Headers plugin. For option 2 here are
the required header fields:
'X-CERS-DEVICE-ID' -> 'vaio:11111111-D7A0-11DD-119C-6D990C3C4529' ;
'X-CERS-DEVICE-INFO' -> 'falco_virtual_remote' ;
Best Regards:
Zoltán Bacskó
Falcosoft
Ps: If you can ask the topic owner to authorize my xda-developers account to
send posts to this topic I would be grateful. My new xda-developers account
is 'Falcosoft'
mendel129 said:
I received an email from the creator of the windows app that works for our 2013 model bravia. (http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#sony_virtual_remote)
Hi,
I would like to share my experiences with you, maybe it can help in the
investigation of the new API structure.
1. The registered status is not required in 2011/12 Sony TV models either to
send pure IRCC SOAP messages (or use the X_SendIRCC UPnP service) .
2. The registered status is required to get meaningful response from url
based API functions (e.g sendText, getText, getRemoteCommandList etc..)
So just an idea: You should try to test these new URL based commands with a
registered status. To achieve this:
1. You should make a new registration and send these data with your browser
2. Use an existing registration e.g. Falcosoft's Sony Virtual Remote and
send the program's data with your browser.
I suggest to use Firefox with Modify Headers plugin. For option 2 here are
the required header fields:
'X-CERS-DEVICE-ID' -> 'vaio:11111111-D7A0-11DD-119C-6D990C3C4529' ;
'X-CERS-DEVICE-INFO' -> 'falco_virtual_remote' ;
Best Regards:
Zoltán Bacskó
Falcosoft
Ps: If you can ask the topic owner to authorize my xda-developers account to
send posts to this topic I would be grateful. My new xda-developers account
is 'Falcosoft'
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting fact that that app works for you. I think this is because that app uses some hardcoded data by default while BraviaControl completely relies on the APIs exposed by the services. It looks like some APIs where left there "hidden" for backward compatibility purposes. I think we should try something like: Cannot find the APIs?, try to force the use. In your case, it may partially (or completely, why not?) work.
Anyway, all that json conversation looks like to be the new way to comunicate with the TV, so, it will be nice to implement that sometime too.
Thanks! I have already set up the code in the cloud. Will be sending the details on how to access it soon (Sorry, I don't currently have very much time free for this project, so bear with me )
New update released as of April 26th has anyone had any issues with anything? I can't say much since only installing it 5 minutes ago. It did improve alot of problems I was having.
i just installed it on my non-pro edition zte axon. was wondering the same thing. no issues yet. will keep an eye on it and report back if something comes up.
---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 AM ----------
my bad. my update was a1v1.0.0b21. whoops.
Good news guys. I hope this update solve the issues
What is WeShare?
Arsenic53 said:
New update released as of April 26th has anyone had any issues with anything? I can't say much since only installing it 5 minutes ago. It did improve alot of problems I was having.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on B10 right now, with a new update to B15 pending from this afternoon.
Part of the update to B15 has me concerned: "Added a new application, WeShare"
What is WeShare, do I need it, can I uninstall it (easily)? I can find precious little about it - a relatively poorly rated app on the Google Play store, and as a Google search result, possibly some way of making "extra money." I've been happy with this phone and its software (minus Yahoo Sports) so far, but my skeevy sense is ringing here. Should it be?
Unfortunately its not easily uninstallable, you can disable it. When initially running WeShare it asks for a lot of permissions such as GPS, read/write into your files, I just didnt bother touching it at all.
Momster said:
I'm on B10 right now, with a new update to B15 pending from this afternoon.
Part of the update to B15 has me concerned: "Added a new application, WeShare"
What is WeShare, do I need it, can I uninstall it (easily)? I can find precious little about it - a relatively poorly rated app on the Google Play store, and as a Google search result, possibly some way of making "extra money." I've been happy with this phone and its software (minus Yahoo Sports) so far, but my skeevy sense is ringing here. Should it be?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just got B15 today myself. After reading your post pointing out the installation of "WeShare," there is, indeed, painfully little online about it. The "WeShare" Apps on Google Play appear to be unrelated. No idea who wrote it (ZTE or a vendor). I took the chance to authorize the permissions (I have nothing of great value to lose), and it appears the App is, essentially, a media-sharing App for transferring stuff to another (especially a new) phone. It also appears to have a Backup & Restore feature. Haven't used any part of it yet. I'll do some more research and post if I find anything more.
---------- Post added at 02:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------
I did some more research and found an older version of WeShare on Google Play, with a similar but different icon. In B15, the icon is a white paper airplane on a medium green background. The older version (6.2.8.2462), for the Chinese market, is a white paper airplane on a lighter green and yellowish background. The good news is it's a ZTE product; the listed developer is "中兴通讯" which is ZTE in Chinese, and the contact is a ZTE employee at the Chinese domain.
As a newbie, I can't post URLs, but if you search for 中兴通讯 WeShare at Google Play, you'll find it.
This update seems to make Marshmallow more stable. Before the update, I had problems with Blue Mail constantly crashing. However I haven't had this problem with Blue Mail or any other app. since installing the update. Also, battery life barely drains at all on standby. It's almost as good as turning the phone off.
It looks like the camera blur issue is solved through this patch.
Looks like it solved the Nova Launcher issue. Haven't had any memory leak/lag issues.
can't play 24bit 192khz FLAC after updating to b15
My default music player can't play 24bit 192khz Flac music files after updating to b15
Anyone has the same issue ?
leepc said:
My default music player can't play 24bit 192khz Flac music files after updating to b15
Anyone has the same issue ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm playing 24bit 96.0KHz Flac files and they work fine on the default music player and other downloadable android music players after the update. Maybe there's an issue with just 192khz ones? idk. I don't have any of those on my device right now.
Just got a new Axon Pro and I was wondering if 0B15 was the last update this device got? I am not worried about nougat because I know we wont get it nor will any developer be able to do it. But can someone confirm if this A1PV1.1.0B15 was the latest one for A1P?
New update
Sent from my achill using XDA Labs
New api
I wrote to ZTE and have been told that the Axon Pro will not receive any additional updates. As far as they are concerned, the phone is dead.