Related
It's official. Wait times for the next batch is 3 weeks.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/15/nexus-4-backordered/
Thank you for your recent purchase on Google Play. Due to overwhelming demand, your Nexus 4 is on backorder and is expected to ship within three weeks. We'll send you a notification when your order has shipped and will credit the shipping charges.
To check the status of your order at any time, visit the link below: https://wallet.google.com/manage/#transactions
If you would prefer to cancel your order, please reply to this email and our team will assist you. Or you can cancel your order using our online tool. Please follow the instructions found here:
http://support.google.com/googleplay/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2423477
We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you again for your order.
Thanks,
The Google Play Team
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So pretty much anyone who hasn't been able to put in a order (like myself) are not going to be able to order the device for a long time.
Thanks for nothing LG.
I guess I'm stuck phoneless for 3 weeks, or whenever the next batch will be availabe...
But I am also sort of glad that I wasn't able to get my order in so we could see if Google will add the Nexus 4 to AOSP as well as fix up some of the thermal issues.
Question for you... do you even read forums before making a new thread? The email you just quoted has been posted numerous times...
Sent from my A510 using Tapatalk 2
c_86 said:
Question for you... do you even read forums before making a new thread? The email you just quoted has been posted numerous times...
Sent from my A510 using Tapatalk 2
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It deserves it's own thread.
wilsonlam97 said:
It deserves it's own thread.
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It really doesn't. Also the E-mail doesn't say what you seem to think it does. Within 3 weeks means any time from today up untill 3 weeks. I'm not overly optomistic about the time frame myself but the thread title is still misleading at best.
your thread created privileges should be taken away...
Good thing I didnt sell my GNex yet.
Why are ppl in the states so crazy to get it even at the price of over $600 at ebay nearly double...can't they wait for the next wave just few weeks ahead..most other country don't even have play store to purchase that may sound reasonable
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I am totally at a loss with Google on this? Total and epic failure from a company that prides itself on it's meticulous attention to detail and Engineers every little thing. How the hell am I supposed t believe that the company that can crunch massive data sets, route the quickest path to ones home, serve massive amounts of AD's and multimedia can blow it in running a simple Cart driven eCommerce business and fail to anticipate all these fairly obvious headaches coming to light. It really boggles the mind?
I got the Backorder letter too, but even that was very vague and provides no level of detail that can be useful. Already there is conflicting stories of folks getting the bo letter and a shipment letter, some who made two separate orders are left wondering which order is bo'd?
If I had to think out loud, I would surmise that in the effort of cutting costs down for this product they used there F-Team of managers for this product launch ... seriously!
*A notification system that failed to notify!
*No coherent product launch time (Midnight? 9EST? 9PST?) even when we fished around for details and the rumour mill had it at 9PST the damn store opened 30minutes earlier.
*No clear communication on stock levels
*No pre-order ... my god how stupid are the folks who ran this botched job!
*Not enough inventory on hand
*No cart limits like 1 per person or 2 per person ... I could add 100 to my cart and the thing would go through
*No cart queuing/ reserving/ holding mechanism ... ticketmaster holds a ticket for 5-10 minutes the instant it lands on your cart
*Cart/ Site kept crashing
*They didn't update the site to sold-out until late at night leading to the F5 phenomena, with people wasting time without knowing whether they can make an order or not ... fully knowing anyone after the initial 10 minutes after opening the Play store would be on backorder ... might as well keep selling now it makes no more difference at this point at least alleviate those who can't purchase now to join a queue and keep selling. What will happen now is they will launch in spurts resulting in the same level of chaos ... let people join the queue now if they will be backordered in anycase.
*For those of us who got the chance to order the assumption was that they would be able to make a shipment ... no reason why the system would fluctuate from in stock to of stock during the nightmare purchase with all the obstacles it had ... WHY THE HELL DID WE GET BO'd! If there system wasn't as one to one as it seemed with all it's rigidity in how much you can add to cart and it failing during purchase because it became out of stock ... then how the hell did you guys oversell?
No sincere apology, no corrective actions are being laid out ... and that token free shipping in no way salvages this horribly broken Play Store. Heads have to roll ... seriously! I've read stories of better managers/ CEO's, project leads being fired for so little ... the folks who have done an outstanding job of tarnishing the Google brand and have been doing so seeing that this type of nonsense is not new with those familiar with the Play Store ... I am totally new to the Android verse coming from WP7.5, BB7, and Maemo ... this first impression of how Google runs this store is not what I always imagined of Google which I love and use from Email to Google+ ... I even enjoyed GWave, I put up with the Buzz mess up ... but Play is such a horrible brand tarnishing experience and Google needs to improve there retail program or get out of it and let the pro's at Amazon handle it.
This is a joke, I can't believe it Google has been running a psy-ops campaign over at the Play Store to ruin there hard fought branding of Engineered Excellence. I hate the Apple verse and the perception that they created whatever is the next best thing when rather they made a incremental improvement on the natural progression of a product life cycle ... but give credit where it is due they are a behemoth when it comes to the retail experience and the level of customer service ... night and day difference in these experiences Google, please rectify it. It makes it silly to have a building full of the brightest people who can't attempt to sell something online when you dominate on the Internet... it is a running joke this Play Store. Heads must roll!
wilsonlam97 said:
It deserves it's own thread.
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Click to collapse
Agreed with the others - this letter has been discussed ad nauseam in at least 2 other very large threads, so much so that one person that started another thread has already (as of earlier this afternoon) started a Google Docs spreadsheet where they are analyzing data entered by volunteers from this forum so that graphs and statistical analyses can be made correlating purchase time to shipping confirmation as well as how this data pertains to the email notification you wrote about.
Mods, please close this thread.
---------- Post added at 09:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------
ryan92084 said:
It really doesn't. Also the E-mail doesn't say what you seem to think it does. Within 3 weeks means any time from today up untill 3 weeks. I'm not overly optomistic about the time frame myself but the thread title is still misleading at best.
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Click to collapse
Yes I had been reading about people's experiences with this backorder email for several hours already, since it was distributed around 3:00-4:00pm EST this afternoon, and then I see this thread title, and obviously I had to assume that someone had some NEW information, linking to a story at Engadget where perhaps they had confirmed that no additional units would be shipped for at least 3 weeks. But then I find, it was just a useless rehash of news and information the rest of us have been looking at and discussing for nearly 7 hours in other threads.
WTF.
joeski27 said:
Agreed with the others - this letter has been discussed ad nauseam in at least 2 other very large threads, so much so that one person that started another thread has already (as of earlier this afternoon) started a Google Docs spreadsheet where they are analyzing data entered by volunteers from this forum so that graphs and statistical analyses can be made correlating purchase time to shipping confirmation as well as how this data pertains to the email notification you wrote about.
Mods, please close this thread.
---------- Post added at 09:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------
Yes I had been reading about people's experiences with this backorder email for several hours already, since it was distributed around 3:00-4:00pm EST this afternoon, and then I see this thread title, and obviously I had to assume that someone had some NEW information, linking to a story at Engadget where perhaps they had confirmed that no additional units would be shipped for at least 3 weeks. But then I find, it was just a useless rehash of news and information the rest of us have been looking at and discussing for nearly 7 hours in other threads.
WTF.
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Click to collapse
Yes but even backorders take "up to 3 weeks" (don't be optimistic). So people who haven't been able to order will obviously have to wait longer than that.
#firstworldproblems
x1000.
Get over it
I saw the root thread is getting clogged down with arguments over the cost to benefit ratio involved with the Turbo root.
So is it worth it? What works and what doesn't? Post your thoughts.
I know several people that root for the sole purpose of having WiFi tether, for those I would think that it is worth it!
But has the wifi tether been achieved yet? I've heard that many are having difficulties.
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system. Admittedly, I am not familiar with having root on a write protected system since I have never owned a system that has this. What I do know is that I have no idea how to edit a system image, nor do I feel any obligation to pay $20 to read a tutorial on how to download a linux VM and waste hours of my life failing at editing system files in hopes that I can achieve what I want to achieve. Perhaps to those more experienced with editing major files like that, the $20 is worth it, but I think for the average android user who appreciates root it may not be.
Basketballhero75 said:
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system.
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Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
JulesJam said:
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
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Click to collapse
I support what they are doing and the price they charge.
It's not comparable to sunshine, as they are entirely different products. SunShine's goal is just unlock, the included TempRoot is only there to make it work on phones without root.
I will repost my thoughts that I put in the initial release thread for mofo, and thanks to the OP here for creating a discussion thread, I hate being "that guy" who posts off topic. I rarely see anything on the internet that inspires me to bother writing an opinion, but this topic really struck a chord with me.
Personally, I don't fundamentally think it's wrong to charge for root, despite it being historically developed and distributed for free. That being said, one of the things that has made the android dev community amazing is its dedication to opening the abilities of software and hardware for everyone. This core concept of community development and participation is what has helped shape sites like XDA. Once we start the trend of putting a price tag on it, it starts to get a bit apple smelling in here.
For myself, root by itself, not an unlocked bootloader, on a device that’s about to get an OS upgrade is not worth 20$.That price tag is very broken and again sets a bad example. I REALLY DO empathize and sympathize with hard working devs wanting to get some funds back for their time, but the only 0 day exploit being used here is the price tag for this.
Cheers!
I imagine most of us spend $20 over the course of a month on little extras.. a candy bar, fast food lunch, or bar night with friends... etc
So if you sacrifice those little extras for one month to have root on a device that is basically on your body 24/7, to me, is an easy justification to make.
Coming from rooted phones I had no idea how borked an ad-filled android experience is. Being able to use my phone without any visual intrusions is well worth it.
Also coming from 5.0 on an M8, I really don't mind staying with 4.4.4 if the 5.1 update kills the mofo process. Worse case, Im stuck with root on 4.4.4 until my edge up next March and start this process all over again
YES. You can flash an edited image I don't get why people are complaining about this so much it opens a door that allows for mostly anything you could ask for. Edit Image and reflash with what they want.
I have no problem in principle with charging for root. There's nothing at all wrong with a developer expecting compensation for something that (1) requires a specialized skill set that that developer has and (2) clearly required a great deal of that developer's time. Why should I expect them to give me that for free? It would certainly be nice if they did, but it's not something that's owed to me.
That said, I somewhat regret having paid for this. It's fundamentally different from what most users mean when they refer to "root." Apps that advertise themselves as "root apps" almost uniformly contemplate being able to write to /system on the fly, and the lack of an ability to do so means that my phone—while technically rooted—lacks some pretty basic root functionality.
I would have no problem paying $20 or more for what I'll call "true-root". I'm not a technical guy, so doing all the stuff that's required to basically flash a new image is not something I'm willing to do. In addition, you still have write-protection that's not possible or not easily possible to currently circumvent. When I rooted my Droid Razr Maxx (the 1st and only phone I ever rooted), I basically connected to the phone to my laptop, ran a . bat file and sat back and waited. The end result was a fully rooted phone. There was no questions or concerns about what could or could not run. If the app in question required root, then you knew it would safely work.
Don't get me wrong. I believe this will open the door for more possibilities with the Turbo. I can certainly appreciate the time and effort from all involved to get this to where it is. That being said, for me and me only, I will not be implementing this, as it stands today. That would be my stance even if it was being offered at no cost.
The only reasons I ever rooted my Razr Maxx was to get WiFi Hotspot and Titanium Backup working, so the lack of root for me is an inconvenience, not the end of the world.
The issue is that most members here are used to a certain experience, and then when that experience is different they will complain. When they have to pay for that different experience, they complain more. I personally feel like this is 100% worth $20, especially since it is a license for the program. I'm sure that this will open up a lot of doors for this device soon.
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
this_is_nascar said:
I can appreciate that view on the subject. It's still not going to be for everyone.
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I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
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Click to collapse
I understand your points.
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this approach but your earlier comments were attacking people who didn't object to paying for root out of principal but basically object to paying for what's available right now, as it doesn't give them what they're looking for.
I haven't paid for MOFO yet because it doesn't give me what I'm looking for, which is the ability to install, update and change xposed packages, adaway, etc without having to build and flash a new image every time. I don't have the skills OR the time to do that. I'll be more than happy to pay the $25 I pledged in the root bounty thread if I can get a solution that works for ME.
Like I said, I'm all for devs getting paid to do this, and to be honest, when I read the post about MOFO (before I knew exactly how it worked and what the limitations were), I was relieved that they built the payment mechanism into the solution instead of having to PM hundreds of users and ask for their bounty pledge or for donations on the forum. Moreover, I have a lot of appreciation and respect to people who do these things, whether they charge for it or not. I get all sweaty every time I flash a new ROM, I can't even imagine how much work it is to find these exploits and explore using them for our advantage. It's just that this solution isn't for everyone, at least the way it is now.
Here is how I see it. Maiko1 made a product. This product does exactly what it is designed and advertised to do. Unfortunately, it’s not quite what I’m looking for. If I’m looking for a new car, and I want a car with a sun roof, and someone offers to sell me a car without a sun roof, well, I can decide whether I want to forego that feature and buy that car, or hold off in the hopes that a car with a sunroof will become available. No offense to the dude who made the car without a sunroof at all. I appreciate all the work he put in. It’s just not what I’m looking for. Now, if someone comes along and figures out a way to add a sunroof to the car (adaway, greenify, etc.), I may reconsider and purchase it. But as of now, I don’t really see how those root apps will function without WP off. Don’t they need to be able to write things to the system partition to function properly? I could be wrong on that and if so someone please explain how these root apps will work with the current root option. Just my 2 cents.
Munkee915 said:
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
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Click to collapse
Perhaps my situation is a little different than most:
I purchased my first droid turbo the morning it came out at my local Verizon store from a friend who had an extra upgrade. I paid a little over $300 for it after taxes. The phone was great, the processor was powerful, and the battery was superb (although not quite 48 hours with my use). As an unlimited data user on Verizon, the lack of tethering for free got to me, and I decided to sell the 64GB beauty for a sound 550$ to pull in a nice little profit.
Fast forward a couple months:
Scanning the droid forums every now and then, I found a post that stated that root was being explored on the turbo. Many android news websites started reporting it and I was beginning to hate my M7 because of it's consistently inconsistent battery life. So what did I do? On March 22nd, I purchased another Turbo for $450; only because I knew it was getting root. And wouldn't luck have it, that the phone arrived in my mailbox yesterday afternoon just hours before the root method was released.
So I am technically INCLINED, but I would not consider myself technically knowledgeable or resilient in regards to system images. With that being said, I don't really trust myself to futz around with my brand spanking new droid turbo since I have no idea what I would do if something goes wrong. (Murphy's Law) I purchased a phone under the notion of "Root is coming to the Turbo!"; which it did! This is 100% undoubtedly a sufficient method of obtaining root. It just wasn't all that I was expecting; and I do have a bad taste left in my mouth only because I purchased this phone thinking I would be getting what I consider to be "full root".
Now,
Am I blaming the developer in ANY way? Absolutely not. His work is fully appreciated on my end.
Do I think this is a huge step for the Turbo development community? Of course!
Will this root method and usage be worth $20 for some people, but not for others? Yes.
Would I recommend this specific root method to any of my friends here at home? Unfortunately, no.
Look, if a dev wants to collect on their work, then by god let them do it! If I poured my time into an exploit such as this, you can be damn sure that I would ask for some capital in return. But would I charge $20? I honestly don't think I would.
LifeAsADroid said:
Correction: my feeling is "here is the best method available as of now. Meet the dev half way and do some very basic, very minor work if you want this function so bad. Dev brought you 90% of the way there, you do the rest because the dev doesn't have your phone in his hands."
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Click to collapse
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
evastonian said:
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
spinach.chin said:
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691816
It does survive soft reboot. So we can install xposed, and update SU binaries. It automates mounting as R/W after the kernel. So this looks like a solution.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Moto ran the Transform the Smartphone Challenge on Indiegogo more than a year ago. 50 mods entered, only 2 or 3 ever got anywhere near a product. Moto wierdly chose 2 'winners' from the contest to receive financial and other support which were never heard from again, leaving the keyboard mod that had demonstrated demand and ability to produce on its own, scrounging for support wherever they could. Perhaps moto thought livermorium had proven they didn't need help, but moto should have known better, manufacturing is hard and tiny organizations with no cash reserves could always use support.
With the drop out of edge some months ago, only the keyboard mod remains within spitting distance of shipping. They actually did begin manufacturing and shipping units, but had to start over and recall them thanks to Motorola's issues with oreo OTAs. Now after all the delays, with some caused by moto, perhaps including their recent executive shakeups, Livermorium (the company making the keyboard mod) is struggling. I'm confident they'll pull through because they've got serious will to survive, but they shouldn't be left twisting in the wind alone. Moto needs to step and prove that an indie mod is possible, even as a slate of new mods gets listed on Indiegogo that few are willing to take seriously because of last year. Moto started this, they asked 3rd parties to invest in the ecosystem, they promised support, they made users believe their own pledges mattered and encouraged us to put up out money to help the ecosystem. They have the resources, and they need help livermorium over the finish line.
We have limited means to contact, and this is a long shot, but it's the best I've got. If Moto is worth its salt, they'll have a director of social media capable of elevating a popular request to more important eyes, but to reach even that person, we need to amplify the request. The tweet below doesn't need to be the only means of reaching out, but it has started to get some traction and a few seconds retweeting or liking it may be the best bang for the buck in reaching them. Please reach out to moto anyway you please, whether you are pro-keyboard or not, because if this mod fails, the best run, closest, most in demand of the indies (it raised more funds than all the other Transform challenge mods combined), why would anyone actually put money down on another crowdfunded mod?
I think we all know that the Moto Z line itself is resting on the edge of a bubble. It might last or it might not. All that will depend on the health of its mod ecosystem. Moto mods are the most interesting thing to hit smartphones in ages, I'd hate to see this disappear. Not just this one indie mod, but others that could follow it if it can prove that indie mods can be trusted would contribute greatly to saving the Moto Z line.
TL;DR: Your likes, retweets and replies will help elevate this request and make it more likely that Motorola will see and care about making indie mods credible for users to back and enriching motomods ecosphere at large: https://twitter.com/fortunzfavor/status/986714582659018754 If you prefer to send your own tweet, please post it and I will happily retweet and like to help elevate polite, on point requests.
While lenovo ( moto ) does have some blame in this situation , i think it's fair to also state that livermorium at least "overshot" things a bit here..
Backers have been promised at least a couple of things and the product has gone thru a ton of re-thinks and rebuilds.
Time and time again the backers had to accept that there was another change and another 'update' made to the product...
Livermorium was more then happy to go to CES and make quite a splash about the keyboard , even go as far as hinting to a retail release of the product.
While it is a logical move to take a piss on lenovo , we have to consider that a lot of the issues could have been prevented if the seemingly endless list of changes
and updates was cut out to get the product to the backers at least.
Livermorium is a little bit too eager to 'whine' about the fact that they are out of funds and that a lot of 'new problems' have come up out of nowhere.
I backed the product and i have been very patient but with a long list of shifted deadlines i must be honest and state that i have lost allmost all hope
in this project.
Lets all hope that this idea finally comes to a product very soon , the wait has been too long...
I was unaware of the issues with the mod, but I was looking forward for it as well. I'm a serious typer and I still use the T9 compact because I think it's faster and could think of a couple of situations where the mod would be dope
Sent from my unknown using Tapatalk
As title says, OnePlus will no longer provide devices for developers. Info here: https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1067440574729457664
justibasa said:
As title says, OnePlus will no longer provide devices for developers. Info here: https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1067440574729457664
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Better send devices to reviewers
justibasa said:
As title says, OnePlus will no longer provide devices for developers. Info here: https://twitter.com/topjohnwu/status/1067440574729457664
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Time to find a new Dev friendly company. OP gonna f themselves with this move. The only reason they are so popular is because of the devs.
So .. we are mad because a company won't give you free stuff? This won't be a popular post, but it's true 99% of the people that use this phone will never care about any development. It would benefit the company to give the free phones to reviewers (where sales can be made) Even if everyone on this forum and the one plus forum didnt buy the device...it woukdnt pjase rhem one bit. #quethehate
They are killing the enthusiastic culture for money.
suzook said:
Time to find a new Dev friendly company. OP gonna f themselves with this move. The only reason they are so popular is because of the devs.
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Too bad there are not many choices out there compared to a few years ago.
I hope I'm wrong here,but, I could see this creeping towards locked bootloaders if OnePlus' data indicates the overwhelming majority of users run a stock/unrooted phone.
Certainly,the partnership with T-Mobile is paying off, I could see this expanding to more carriers & if the price is right,OnePlus would drop aftermarket development like a bad habit....
This is the dead for Oneplus. We will see no custom rom on 6t. Look at 6 thread, there are just 4 or 5 roms. Oneplus hype is over. I give return now my 6t. The 5t was the last with good custom rom support.
AnoopKumar said:
They are killing the enthusiastic culture for money.
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Assuming 20 dev devices sent out, there's likely over the double amount of bought devices because of the devs. Seems like for such a small investment in the dev community should be worth it? Hell, the negative PR due to ending the program should cost more.
jkeith1 said:
So .. we are mad because a company won't give you free stuff? This won't be a popular post, but it's true 99% of the people that use this phone will never care about any development. It would benefit the company to give the free phones to reviewers (where sales can be made) Even if everyone on this forum and the one plus forum didnt buy the device...it woukdnt pjase rhem one bit. #quethehate
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They're not giving you (us) free stuff. They were giving very well established developers free phones. They had the list of developers posted some where. It was a very short list (under 50 world wide). It's a 0.002% kind of numbers they were giving out. (Based on the OP6 selling 1 million phones in the first month. We'll say they sold 2 million total since then). They're definitely giving out many more review phones. And overall it's a drop in the bucket compared to other advertising spending.
A good break down of this is the Linus Tech Tips video on computer hardware rebranding. He does a very basic break down of the costs of launching new hardware. And how much of a return they get by getting reviewers to review old hardware with a new name. It's not exactly the same as here. But there are users out there who purchase a phone based on development.
I'm only one person, and this is purely anecdotal, but the only reason I even considered this phone was due OnePlus previous history of being very developer friendly. Even with the half off deal through T-Mobile, I was still on the fence about getting this over a Pixel. I'll evaluate how this goes over the next year and if anything, I'll swap from a 2-3 year phone user to only using this phone for a year and go pick up the Pixel 4 next year.
hartleyshc said:
They're not giving you (us) free stuff. They were giving very well established developers free phones. They had the list of developers posted some where. It was a very short list (under 50 world wide). It's a 0.002% kind of numbers they were giving out. (Based on the OP6 selling 1 million phones in the first month. We'll say they sold 2 million total since then). They're definitely giving out many more review phones. And overall it's a drop in the bucket compared to other advertising revenues.
A good break down of this is the Linus Tech Tips video on computer hardware rebranding. He does a very basic break down of the costs of launching new hardware. And how much of a return they get by getting reviewers to review old hardware with a new name. It's not exactly the same as here. But there are users out there who purchase a phone based on development.
I'm only one person, and this is purely anecdotal, but the only reason I even considered this phone was due OnePlus previous history of being very developer friendly. Even with the half off deal through T-Mobile, I was still on the fence about getting this over a Pixel. I'll evaluate how this goes over the next year and if anything, I'll swap from a 2-3 year phone user to only using this phone for a year and go pick up the Pixel 4 next year.
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Click to collapse
I specifically use OP because I can mess with it, root it, change things. A month after the Galaxy phones come out, they drop to nearly what OP sells them for new. If I can't root my phone, why would I settle for the corners that OP cuts over a better - mostly everything - on a Samsung or Pixel? No reason in my mind.
hartleyshc said:
They're not giving you (us) free stuff. They were giving very well established developers free phones. They had the list of developers posted some where. It was a very short list (under 50 world wide). It's a 0.002% kind of numbers they were giving out. (Based on the OP6 selling 1 million phones in the first month. We'll say they sold 2 million total since then). They're definitely giving out many more review phones. And overall it's a drop in the bucket compared to other advertising spending.
A good break down of this is the Linus Tech Tips video on computer hardware rebranding. He does a very basic break down of the costs of launching new hardware. And how much of a return they get by getting reviewers to review old hardware with a new name. It's not exactly the same as here. But there are users out there who purchase a phone based on development.
I'm only one person, and this is purely anecdotal, but the only reason I even considered this phone was due OnePlus previous history of being very developer friendly. Even with the half off deal through T-Mobile, I was still on the fence about getting this over a Pixel. I'll evaluate how this goes over the next year and if anything, I'll swap from a 2-3 year phone user to only using this phone for a year and go pick up the Pixel 4 next year.
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Fair enough, good post.
SpectraFun said:
This is the dead for Oneplus. We will see no custom rom on 6t. Look at 6 thread, there are just 4 or 5 roms. Oneplus hype is over. I give return now my 6t. The 5t was the last with good custom rom support.
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Not to be rude but you seem to be posting very negative comments about custom roms and developers for the 6t. If you don't like the phone, return it. And as I've stated elsewhere, developers have been busting their butts trying to get twrp up and running. Which as of yesterday is now available. I personally don't see custom roms coming out until a permanent twrp was available. Now that that is, I'm sure there will be roms coming out in relatively short time. Personally I find your negative comments insulting to developers. Again if you are unhappy with the device then return it, no one's stopping you. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just find it frustrating and again demeaning to all the hard work that devs have been putting into making this phone available to use custom roms on. Rant done.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
ozzmanj1 said:
Not to be rude but you seem to be posting very negative comments about custom roms and developers for the 6t. If you don't like the phone, return it. And as I've stated elsewhere, developers have been busting their butts trying to get twrp up and running. Which as of yesterday is now available. I personally don't see custom roms coming out until a permanent twrp was available. Now that that is, I'm sure there will be roms coming out in relatively short time. Personally I find your negative comments insulting to developers. Again if you are unhappy with the device then return it, no one's stopping you. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just find it frustrating and again demeaning to all the hard work that devs have been putting into making this phone available to use custom roms on. Rant done.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
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No point to waste your time man it's just another entitled user that thinks XDA is a place to make your phone cool not a developer forum.
ozzmanj1 said:
Not to be rude but you seem to be posting very negative comments about custom roms and developers for the 6t. If you don't like the phone, return it. And as I've stated elsewhere, developers have been busting their butts trying to get twrp up and running. Which as of yesterday is now available. I personally don't see custom roms coming out until a permanent twrp was available. Now that that is, I'm sure there will be roms coming out in relatively short time. Personally I find your negative comments insulting to developers. Again if you are unhappy with the device then return it, no one's stopping you. I'm not trying to pick on you, I just find it frustrating and again demeaning to all the hard work that devs have been putting into making this phone available to use custom roms on. Rant done.
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That's a lot nicer than I would have put it. Just didn't want to get banned. ??
Give it a year or so and the bootloaders will be unlockable.
I think a good amount of the posting is to "ruffle the feathers."
It's not like the ONLY people who develop a device are those that get a free device from the manufacturer.
If you want development on a phone that has flagship-like specs (good screen, latest snapdragon, above average camera) there isn't much selection in the USA. It's this or a Pixel or buy something abroad (e.g. Exynos based Galaxy). Otherwise your out of luck. As long as the bootloader remains easily unlocked and their devices are easily rooted I could care less.
Typical click-bait type of article with the expected response.
sssarg said:
Assuming 20 dev devices sent out, there's likely over the double amount of bought devices because of the devs. Seems like for such a small investment in the dev community should be worth it? Hell, the negative PR due to ending the program should cost more.
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The majority of their customers won't even understand what this means let alone care that OP stopped doing it. The impact it will have on their sales will be a rounding error. Yes, as a percentage of total units sold, OP likely has more customers that root/ROM vs companies like Samsung. However, it looks like they're trying to focus on the main part of the business and not deal with small things that don't drive significant sales. That puts a program like this on the chopping block.
I get why they might do this, however, the only reason I buy OnePlus devices is the development support. So if development dies, I don't buy anymore phones. We have multiple OP phones in the house. I bought the 5T and now the 6T before Lineage was out, sounds like I won't buy anymore devices until ROMs are available just to be certain. The problem with that is with the short development cycle by the time that happens OP maybe onto the next device...
Nosferatu. said:
It's not like the ONLY people who develop a device are those that get a free device from the manufacturer.
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This is a very valid point.
threatening to not buy devices because of lack of development is like spitting into a hurricane; no one will notice, and it wont matter one bit..
once any of the enthusiast companies start to get large sales volume, and smell corporate business, their willingness to help enthusiasts of any sort diminishes greatly..If google thought they could land more giant corporate accounts by locking down the pixel phones like samsung did, they would do it in a minute..follow the money is what all my friends tell me now a days, and they are right..
You can be as outraged as you want to over OP deciding to drop "free" anything to developers; its not going to effect any change of any sort, so you might as well save your outrage for something else..sooner or later, all bootloaders will be locked, and you wont have any better choices..
Did everyone see the update from OnePlus?
“Apologies, we weren’t as clear as we could have been. We’ve temporarily scaled back our developer program while we work out how to make it even better in the future. We’ll be updating the selection criteria and communication channels with developers in our seeding program for better co-operation. We will restart the program and select Devs based on the new criteria and will work on providing the best possible support to community development efforts for OnePlus devices.” – OnePlus Spokesperson
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I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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Click to collapse
Seriously? Talk about a lame solution.
jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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I agree 100%. :good::good::good::good::good:
jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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I'm sorry you feel this way I was just offering a solution to help you with your issue but you know I do understand because I had the same thought at first but I think it is pretty cool to have real time discussion.....
Also our device is not limited to just this thread..... I spend my day switching ROMs with trebel based GSI....Oh and they get updated security every month and using our device all of the moto gestures show up in the rom because we still use the moto vender..... And if you really want to see some development start reading about compiling kernels..right now Im building a custom kernel for device.....
pastorbob62 said:
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
Lupask said:
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
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I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
The problem is that too many users don't even know what they're doing. They do not want to acquire knowledge themselves and expect a solution and an explanation for everything.
By now I say to many users here they should inform themselves. This forum can provide help with problems, but cannot explain everything to everyone. The most common questions here are "I have a bootloop", "what does
encryption mean and why I'm not able to access my data", "why TWRP should only be booted and why does flashing to recovery fail", "should I install TWRP again after I updated my device" and so on... There is currently a user who is trying to mount TWRP in Windows and tells me at the same time that he has already rooted various devices.
Somewhere in between is a single user of 20 with a real problem but he doesn't get noticed.
pastorbob62 said:
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
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But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
Lupask said:
But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
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Agree 100%. That is basically what my post is trying to address.
Lupask said:
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
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Good heavens no! If you look at my history and go back the 7 years I have been here, you would find that I have been and will remain very active in helping others and solving my own problems. I have taken part in Alpha and Beta testing for developers. Have I gotten lazy on occasion and asked before searching? Sure. Who hasn't? But that is most definitely not my standard mode of operation. I make it a habit to search and research as much as possible before I ask.
Lupask said:
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
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I agree, unless you are dealing with issues brought on by unlocking, rooting and installing custom software/roms. Go to Motorola and ask a question about those issues and you will get shut down immediately. "Sorry! Your warranty is void and we can't help you. And many users (like myself) buy models not available in the USA so there is no support from Motorola at the get go.
That is the whole purpose of XDA. Community support and development. Granted, there are those who will abuse it and not make any effort whatsoever to find the answer and fix it themselves. They deserve to be ignored. But if you put a mod or rom or app on here then by golly, at least support it.
I believe we are pretty much on the same page just took a couple of exchanges to get here. :good:
..
---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA.
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You judged and found out you were wrong.
But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered.
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Click to collapse
How much exactly did you pay that made you entitled to this kind of support?
But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
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You do not really have to say anything but forums are there for anyone to speak his mind. Even people who think they are entitled to stuff they actually aren't
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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Lack of respect. REALLY?
Get off your high horse!
Your post itself is a reflection of another trend:
Unfounded entitlement.