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guys,
please read the text below and let me know what you think about it...
although people try to mask the situation by giving it good names the truth is that this is happening and something has to be done before things get worse.
some folks are using this forum to sell what they call 'their' products. they get these ROMs, they make changes to it by adding or removing software. then they publish it as if they are 'sharing' their 'work' but, strangely, they do it in a very commercial way by naming their 'work' with appealing words to get attention.
when these ROMs go published, they often take a few first posts of the thread as they have a lot of information to add..... and screenshots to publish..... and donations to 'suggest'...... and donors' names to publish.
sometimes it will happen that a few folks who are trying these home cooked ROMs with applications that are less likely to be used by most people will end up having serious problems that eventually will get fixed by the 'chef' .... on a new version.
the principle of sharing a piece of work entirely made by yourself is that it cannot be asked anything in exchange otherwise, even if slightly suggested, it's nothing but a sale and by getting copyrighted software, making changes to it, 'sharing' and suggesting donations from the testers, well.... i'm pretty sure this isn't completely nice.... and either legal.
although i never really bothered to look into these roms to see what's really inside them (even flashing them on my phones sometimes) i decided to do it earlier this week. the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
another interesting thing is that if you look into the other subforums carefully you'll see that the same chefs often publish roms for more than one handset which gets me thinking two things: 1) do they really have all these handsets they publish ROMs for? 2) if so, are these roms really tested before they go online?
i don't want to be seen as a troublemaker cause it seems that these folks have made a living out of this cooked rom thing and they appear to have gotten themselves a pretty nice bunch of fans too. however, what i want with this thread is to raise a debate and the reason is that i really like this forum and i'm concerned about something that is happening and i completely disagree.
So what is your main concern?
That the chefs would like to have donations?
Or that someone takes a pile of code and alters it not according to the original programmer?
abe
big people talk about idea..
small people talk about other people..
You have a point with "selling someone else's code, slightly altered and selling it as your own", but I think the ROM cookers only like donations for the work they do tuning the original roms and most of the time adding functionality to the device. A lot of the "better known" chefs have gathered testers around them, so most of the bugs are gone before a release.
What exactly is the debate? Where are the facts/proof that this is occuring? you cant make such a statement without backing it up with some evidence.
I know some chefs actually put ALOT of time and effort into cooking a rom, testing it and informing the community about any errors found.
I've cooked a Rom or two myself and am working on a driver set for MSM devices. It takes ALOT of my time to do so and it's not only for my own benefit. Thank God there are people out there who help me with that. (you know who you are, if you're reading this)
I'm not saying that it's right to pass your ROMs off as your own, but I do know some chefs are better in making the devices perform alot better than HTC's programmers do. And if people want to reward them for their time and effort through donations, who am I to question that?
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, I think that if they "invest" lot of their time (and they do), it is ok to have donation button. Nobody if forceing you to pay for rom. If you like it you can donate. Fair deal if you ask me!
SlakerBoi said:
guys,
the funny thing you see when you dump these roms. they are not being shared with other folks, they are being sold, and they should not be touched.
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This part I don't like. I think that they shouldn't do that, because in that case, like you said, roms are in some way being sold. That is not in the spirit of xda.
I think what he may be referring to is some members that take the ROM's from a known cook and post it with screenshots in other forums and other language forums with potential to gain off someone else work. I know of 1 instance where a Link to a ROM for only a beta test ended up with more than 500 downloads when intended for less than 10. It was found posted around in different forums.
To reward someone for there hard work in customization is up to the community. I think most people know the ROM's are not the property of the cooks, but just the cooks work in rearranging, adding, deleting, and customizing. I for one can tell you the amount of donations most cooks receive is very small and in most cases would barely cover a unlimited account for downloads. I myself think of it as I'm cooking for myself and if other people like then that's ok too.
Hi
If I use HTC mobiles is because the cooked roms...
Iosu
NeoS2007 said:
On the other hand, I find the "lack" of community more disturbing. Some people aren't sharing their knowledge for the common good, but for getting credited or donations. I believe that's the discussion here.
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For me the first thing to do in order to solve this "problem" is to prohibit any "protected" ROM. I think its not fair to take official ressources, work with tools, which can be found in this forums, and then "protect" the ROM, claiming that its your own choice.
I don't think that this is the right way to go, as other (new) cookers could learn a lot from these ROMs.
But, I don't think that this is the "problem" that SlakerBoi is talking about, is it?
As these discussions tend to come and go every now and then ...
Indeed it costs a huge amount of time in the first place. And a lot of users appreciate the work all cooks are doing overhere. Besides the cooking giving people advise. I can tell you that most cooks share their knowledge. Not always visible to everyone but most of them have contact and help each other. Furthermore, is offering your rom for dumping without any guidance the best way to share?
Everyone that asks for a package, help or guidance in any way is supported in the cooking thread. Some did publish a very nice rom after some time. In my opinion it is a far better contribution then offering an open rom without any support.
The reason I cook my own roms the way I do is for speed purpose. If you have another opinion that is fine with me. But tolerate each other on having a different approach. These kind of statements in threads only give xda a bad vibe. Open your mind, when you want or need something ask for it. It's not supposed to be a tv diner anyway.
I quote you , my friend!
Well this is how it goes for a long time. I think if you don't like it, go somehwere else.
What will you get from debating??
SlakerBoi my first question for you is "have you every cooked a ROM?" i am sure your answer will be "No" because i know how much time n effords need to be put. When i cooked my first rom it took me 4 sleepless night to build a basic beta quality rom. After such a hard work someone reward you by donating. That feeling can't be said in words SlakerBoi. So please stop raising this type of question.
One more thing most of the ROM developers buy new phone with the donations they go so it's not a issue if they release rom for many devices.
Please don't continue this decisions so that this post will go to some corner.
MOD this post hurts lot of ppl feeling so please delete it.
before the flame wars starts
i am going to close this....as these questions will cause fighting.
if you have a problem with someone...contact them....don't post like this
you know this is only going to end in fighting.
thread closed.
As a chef, and a moderator (chef came first), I'll add my thoughts.
I started into cooking when AT&T released their official WM6.1 ROM for the Kaiser. I always liked the design of AT&T ROMs, but not all of the bloat they included... most of which could not be uninstalled. I had the very "simple" goal of removing the bloat in an attempt to speed up the ROM, and increase storage space.
Once I downloaded the ROM, and extracted it using KaiserKitchen, I immediately realized that I was in over my head. I am a very good with PC and Mac computers in the professional/personal world, but I had never looked at the contents of a decompiled WM ROM. There are hundreds of folders, 10,000+ files, and no real explanation of what you're looking at... that is where XDA-Developers came in.
Within 1 week of public release, I was ready with a ROM that could be considered "extreme beta". It worked, and it was fast, but it had quite a few glitches that could not have been discovered without a public release, and a few dozen people testing the ROM. One thing in the background, that is never seen, is the number of hours spent just flashing our phones (I am NOT counting the cooking process) with numerous revisions testing all the bugs/issues reported. My Tilt was flashed no less then 1000 times in it's life, and my Fuze has been through over 500 so far.
I consider myself to be a pretty good ROM chef. But I also know that I am far from the best, and that most of my knowledge came from the very large XDA-Developers community. Some ROM chefs do not share information about the inner workings of their ROM in the ROM thread itself, but a simple email/PM will usually get you the information you seek. Look at it this way: If someone uses a ROM as released, and has no desire to modify it, then why should the thread be clogged with hundreds of questions/answers relating to how this was done, or how that was done.
My ROMs are "protected" using RaphaelKitchen, but it wasn't always this way. It has been shown that merging the RGU/DSM files into one large file speeds up the ROM because you now have several hundred less files sitting on the device. In addition, I also release my kitchen, in it's complete form, when I release a new ROM version. People are free to download the kitchen, extract it to their computer, and fully customize my ROMs. I know this is a popular route, because my Fuze and Touch Pro kitchens have been downloaded over 100 times since v4.7 of my ROM came out last month.
On to donations... I have a donation link in my signature for people who wish to appreciate the amount of work/hours poured into creating custom WM ROMs. Just as my signature says, I never require monetary compensation, but I also accept whatever people give, because it allows me to improve my work. For example, I purchased WinCE CAB Creator with some of my donations, so that I could create CAB files of items removed from the ROM. I also maintain a Rapidshare Premium account so that I never have to delete any file uploaded to XDA. Another form of donation I received was web hosting on a fast server that provided an alternative to Rapidshare.
I've said all of this before, but it's been awhile, and I cannot find the post. In closing, I don't see anything wrong with the items you pointed out. We've had issues in the past with members who used donations as a way to obtain a piece of software (ROM or otherwise), and as soon as it was brought to our attention, it was dealt with.
Hi all,
I really appreciate the work of all ROM cookers, even if I don't use a ROM from XDA anymore. (I was using some german releases here for quite some time)
I don't know much about ROM cooking, since I'm a SAP and Web-Deveopment guy, but I always asking myself:
Why is ROM cooking not like open source stuff?
Why is everyone/every group cooking it's own little stuff?
Why not working together on few versions to provide a ultimate, stable, bugfree, nice documented and "perfect" ROM?
Newbies are totally overloaded with 1337 ROM releases, which they should take? Where to find help for your decision? Not everyone has the time/KnowHow to try out 5+ ROMs...
There are so many many advantages if they would do so:
+ bugfixes are done only one time, not many times for many different roms
+ bugfixes are always up to date
+ mistakes are not done multiple times
+ more manpower to test/optimize/develop roms (since everyone works together)
+ clean and clear buglist and release history
+ bugtracking (easier for community to post bugs via bugtracker, easier to develop for cookers)
+ better for newbies (a stronger/bigger community is maybe not a bad thing?) - people know what to download (stable/beta/nightly builds releases - maybe light and full ROMs)
+ many many more, maybe even better reasons
And you can still release ROMs weekly and in multiple version (nightly builds, betas, alphas) but you also can make rock solid milestone releases for the community.
My feeling is SOMETIMES (not in all cases!), that cookers try to compete against each other, than working together.
As I said, its just a feeling... nothing personal against anyone.
Of course there are also disadvantages in organizing such a "structure", but in the end if a cooker would stop developing and invest this time into organizing the rest in to a developer group, that would be a benefit everyone. Means, a bit less "development power", but a lot more efficient developing. The big picture counts.
Just wanted to start a discussion about this thing. It is not like I'm totally experienced in this topic.
Because to be honest... much of the work (which is great and I really appreciate) is done multiple multiple times.
And many many ROMs are more or less the same. Different languages and "feature" levels like Light/Full would be sufficient.
It does seem like a good idea. Certainly, it would allow the chefs to develop an amazing Manilla X1 ROM, and a non-Manilla ROM, 6.1 ROM and a 6.5 ROM, light/full versions and other languages quite effectively. However, I'm not sure how much the chefs would like it. It would however, be excellent for the community. Would be interesting to hear the chefs views on this.
rom are developed really fast. too much people, too much organizations will slow down development.
most part of developers has trusted betatester and bug solver, working in small groups. afaik, looking at whole forum productions, this model works pretty well
yes I have the same question
if we all put our knowledge / findings together @ the cheffs share centre thread it would be A high mile achievement
guap said:
rom are developed really fast. too much people, too much organizations will slow down development.
most part of developers has trusted betatester and bug solver, working in small groups. afaik, looking at whole forum productions, this model works pretty well
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I'm not too sure if you can call this situation "well". I would say it "kinda works".
And yes, in the short run, the development is slower, but in the long run the development is faster, because it is more efficient and there is less work which is done multiple times. As I said, it is the big picture you have to see, in the long run this would be much better.
Additionally to that "new" cooks who maybe have a new bugfix and want to release that, they have to do many of the other fixes again to release a new ROM (additionally to that they lack experience and will make "new" bugs).
In a single project, they simply post their fix, and the main developers check and integrate the fix ... done. Next build it is included.
And that's much faster!! And it is double checked for mistakes for more stable releases.
---
For the user it is unthinkable to update the ROM every week. There is a need for some "stable"-like ROM for general users.
The level of final release ROMs here are more or less like "Firefox RC" or even "Beta" Versions.
this is not the 1st time someone like u come up with this......loads of ppl had the same request. even i saw atleast a couple of such thread in this x1 thread!!!
but they neva work in most cases.....i only saw one such successful project!!!
That's not a bad idea at all.
I have been active for sometime with XDA equivalent for AVM Fritz modems (ip-phone-forum), together they made a compiler tool (Freetz.org) for all avm fritz modems, users download one tool, launch and select what features they want in their router, and build a new firmware/ROM, and there is a huge forum for support.
well, i don't say to make such a tool (while it will be so interesting to have, at least one per smartphone model)
having a xda organized in the way mentioned, many bugs can be resolved easily.
in the current state, a newbie will have much difficulty to read a 200 page thread about some custom ROM to find that in post 1232 describes the issue he encountered and later has been fixed in post 1325....
i was going to ask about making a sub forum per each custom rom, with threads divided per subjects, so if someone encounter an SMS issue will have to read one thread completely about sms issues rather than a very long one about all issues in that custom rom.....
if something could be done, then it will become much easier for everybody !!!
great idea.
There is one issue though: people have strong personal flavors of ROMs. Some might want a fast and lean ROM while others might want a mighty one.
I guess some kind of sophisticated branching is needed to accommodate these requests
yes, different tastes, but same bugs
I am down on a common knowledge database, willing to share and learn
It would be great indeed to have a common project but all chefs would need to aim to the same release that would take time to come to a common design and implementation.
Hope this can happen though!
Maybe a cooperation of some chefs would help to reach something here.
mercuriussan said:
And yes, in the short run, the development is slower, but in the long run the development is faster, because it is more efficient and there is less work which is done multiple times. As I said, it is the big picture you have to see, in the long run this would be much better.
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The problem is there is no long run for rom cooking.
Most of us (users or cook) seldom use a single phone longer than a year and we moved to a next device and start everything from the ground up again.
Even you keep the same device for a long time, newer WM build or other components comes very frequently and there's always a tradeoff between "new features" vs "stability". And every cook has their own perference and it natural to see varies roms among cooks. Therefore, it will never have an easy solution for rom user.
For cooks, we could open threads for individual components and work together. I did open a threads for TF3D v2 (landscape), and HD Camera as a project base, and Itje already create a chef discussion thread and I think this model works pretty well for cooks.
agree with jackleung in some points
I've created a Topic for cooking with windows mobile 6.5, too.
Everyone was invited to discuss their bugs and help each other.
But none like it really.
Or none got bugs
Basically what everyone wants is a ROM with PURE Windows Mobile as Microsoft gives it to manufacturers(No HTC, Sonyericsson stuff), cabs/packages of different applications and a program that combines all of them together according to individual needs.
Guys, this was a response to a post from me and my subsequent response to it posted in the XannyTech ROM thread. I thought it would be best to open this to a wider community as I am sure many feel as I do, but are unsure how to better the operation as it currently stands.
As I specify at the end of the post, I am definitely NOT attacking the chefs, just trying to get the best possible solution for the vast majority of people and giving my reasoning behind it.
dafunk2 said:
Mate, I don't agree with you.
I know that these are things told and told again.....but:
- Did you install additional software?
- Did you try to uninstall any additional software?
- Did you try to do an Hard Reset?
- Did you do an Hard Reset after Flashing?
- Did you try to re-flash the rom?
- Did you try to download again the rom?
You can see by other people's feedbacks that this rom is probably the best, performing and stable one, and you cannot of sure tell that this rom is "bits and pieces untested in it", because the cooker and his team of betatesters of course cannot test anything under ANY circumsance and ANY configuration and ANY additional software installed and ANY...and ANY...and ANY....
I feel to tell you these few words because I don't like who don't respect other's hard work. Did you noticed how many releases is Xanny doing? And every release is better then the last...so if you are experiencing problems or probably bugs, please give respect to the cooker and explain in a civil and constructive way wich the bugs are, and you can be sure that the cooker will fix as soon as possible.
Keep in mind that the rom MUST be valued "nude and crude" like the cooker post it, and not after installed a miriad of sofwares in it.
Maybe it's not your case.......
.....but I'm bored to see stupid posts like your.
Escuse me in advance if I'm too "direct" with you, I respect anyone that respect other people.
Ciao from Italy
dafunk
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OK, firstly I take no offence to you being direct - it's sometimes the best way to be
Secondly, I have voiced my issues in a constructive and respectful manner within this thread before and many others from many other Chefs, but with little or sometimes no response.
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
I can't emphasise enough the respect I have for these people, but I do think that we are getting more quantity than quality. There are a number of issues (see bug tracker) with some of the later ROM's which quiet frankly were broken as a result of a new recipe.....working before and broken after is breaking the golden rule of a new software release!
At the end of all this I urge people to understand what I'm saying and not take it as an attack against the Chefs as this is most definitely NOT what this is.
oh and to add, I have tried flashing via USB and flashing via SD Card, and hard resetting a number of times after flash. As for not installing any software....I'm struggling to see the relevance of that suggestion. Do you think HTC test TouchFlo3D against every piece of software developed for the platform they implement their software on to check for compatibility? No.....what they do is adhere to coding standards and practices using certified API's and the like to make sure that 99% of the time everything should be fine.
Now I'm not suggesting the same level of testing for Chefs, but what I AM saying is that if these ROM's are basically tweaked stock ROM's (which the newer Leo ROMs are now it's live) then surely the inherent testing has been done and issues should be minimal. That being the case, why are there so many posts on cooked ROM threads stating issues?
Again, not being antagonistic, just trying to point something out. I appreciate the chefs, but I still want my phone to operate.
I can just offer my noob experience, I have encountered apps made for winmo6.1 to cause problems for winmo6.5. and often times custom made mods by fellow users such as tweaks and graphics, mods to tf3d etc often causes problems, maybe not for first release, but when a new piece of software comes, like now manila 2.5 and so many new releases, what was perfect yesterday causes major bugs today.
And as far as cooking a rom, i have had such thing happened to me that when just updating one package in the rom, the whole thing will not start, just a newer version of the same app. So every new sys, every new manila edition, every new modification is very possible to cause some new conflict, noticeable or not.
I think if we want to have the latest software availible on the market, you will never have that officially, then this is the way to go, and there will always be some sort of conflicts minor or major, the good thing is chefs that are willing to work to improve, workaround fix etc, i like xanny, and miri and several others who are present in their threads and actually communicating trying to solve the issues, some just post a rom and you wont hear from them again until next release. But everything here is from free will, you chose to flash a rom you do take a risk. But we have some good backup tools and autoconfig tools so flashing is not so very timeconsuming
But i have had stockroms freeze on me, lagging and very irritable, but hey i am glad being able to have custom roms, every chef bring their own flavor to the phone, and if you dislike all you can always start cooking yourself then you can twist and turn it however you prefer
Thanks for your input - I was fearing a bit of a flame war when I posted so I'm happy that the first person to reply was a mature one
I suppose you are right from the point of view that having the latest software means that the likelihood is that it will not be officially tested and verified. I just wish that I wasn't always "waiting for the next problem" to occur.
If I was really bothered I suppose I'd go back to Stock and make do, but then I'd CAB my phone up to breaking point with tweaks! - lose lose situation perhaps
the way i look at it, we should only be using stock ROMs. Cookers then put in the time to create great ROMs for us with the features of newer devices, allowing us to get more out of our devices. They ask for little in return, so i dont really think its fair to criticise their products, because were it not for them, we'd be using just stock ROMs. Just my way of looking at it
Wiggz said:
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
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It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are providing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one or go back to stock.
I'm pretty positive they understand we want a fully functional phone, not sure what your point is here.
If you don't like the new version of a ROM then don't upgrade, or try it then go back to the old version.
Although you say you appreciate what they're doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
scotland101 said:
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are doing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one.
Although you say you appreciate what their doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
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I appreciate your point, and I can wholeheartedly see how my points could be perceived as aggressive towards chefs.
However, what I am trying to say is that whilst I understand I "don't need to use" these ROMs...why would anyone go to the time and effort to create a ROM if:
they didn't want people to use them, and
they didn't want it to be the best ROM out there with the fewest issues
I am simply saying that a few chefs are content with spewing out ROM after ROM without actually realising that people would prefer a recent-ish build release which was stable, and fast over a brand new ROM which was buggy.
personal opinion
Everyone must know that what these guys are doing is from their free time, and no one is forced to use their ROM`s. Who do use them, is doing that by free will. It may be that one of ROM is not that good that another, but you can go anytime to stock ROM, or the one you had before (like I did some times).
What I`m trying to say is that all we have to do is to say “thank you” to these guys who make possible that we all have a better device.
Keep up the good work and I salute you!
hehehe all very amusing, how you've made this into an issue I don't know...
chefs don't need to "understand" anything, they post it here with as much or as little description as they like!
luckily this forum is packed full of support tips faqs etc that there's really no need to ask chefs to be "very precise" and other such nonsense.
chefs can "spew" as much as they like, what the general public "prefer" is really not an issue, you are lucky that some of them reply and give you the help they do at all, in fact Xanny happens to give a lot of support for his roms and I can understand why he might feel just a little tired at some of the repetitive questions etc that get asked in his thread.
The fact the chefs reply at all should be help enough, you imply that you put "time and effort" into testing the roms...well that's lovely but it doesn't give you any extra gold stars.
This is not an attack against you, but you "need to understand" that there's nothing the chefs "need to understand" or do in order to please you or anyone else who take the time to test the roms, because noone is asking you to.
I think this pretty pointless thread has ran its purpose IMO. I believe all chef's put a lot of work into their roms and are trying to acheive the best rom, with the latest builds with no bugs. This is a hard enough task without people complaining about issues all the time which in general most chef's try to eradicate. No one wants bugs including chef's, but with newer builds appearing all the time, its inevitable you will get issues as these builds where not planned for the HD.
Think enough has been said on this subject
Thread closed
This is a discussion thread for all things custom; Building steps and tips, problem solving and issue discussion. All questions and/or comments are welcome. Be aware, although I build and customize ROMs, I am not a professional developer and cannot promise a solution for your problem. But, hopefully, we can work together to come up with practical solutions for any problems here at m7spr.
So..The things you were shut down on. Were they CM related, or Sense stuff?
Did they involve you working solo, or with a team? Give more details, get the word out.
Felnarion said:
So..The things you were shut down on. Were they CM related, or Sense stuff?
Did they involve you working solo, or with a team? Give more details, get the word out.
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Click to collapse
I really am leery of pointing fingers at specific people because I'm new here and don't want to make a name for myself as a whiner. But, basically it is both. The custom ROMs I am working on have all been built before by me on other devices, so that's not the issue. I have inquired about possibly collaborating with other devs on some Sense related stuff and was looking into why there was no official or unofficial release of the current CM10.2. The sense stuff really isn't my bag as much, but i was/am interested. Others are working on the CM, but with no official release in play, no one wants to put theirs out. I have built it successfully, but have no intention of trying to lay it out there when other devs have been working on it before I got here. My thing is this: when I got tired of waiting for devs to come up with new things, I was told to put up or shut up. It was good advice; I have no coding experience specifically, but I like to learn and have been successful at not only compiling and maintaining custom builds, but also starting 'Learn to do it yourself' threads in two different device forums. I like to learn and compile and share. That's it. I don't need (or want) attention or grateful fans or any of that crap. All I want to do is open the doors for more builds and more users getting off their asses and building for themselves. It seems like a win-win to me, but I feel resistance and it is disappointing. I will get off my soapbox now
I typically touch base with any dev who is the creator/maintainer of any ROM I am interested in pursuing. My experience has been more of a quick 'try it out and see what you get' response or 'it can't be done'. This is after I have asked for not only a blessing, but for relevant information and possibly assistance. Maybe I am just hitting up devs who are already frustrated and don't want someone like me asking a bunch of questions, I don't know....
BMP7777 said:
I really am leery of pointing fingers at specific people because I'm new here and don't want to make a name for myself as a whiner. But, basically it is both. The custom ROMs I am working on have all been built before by me on other devices, so that's not the issue. I have inquired about possibly collaborating with other devs on some Sense related stuff and was looking into why there was no official or unofficial release of the current CM10.2. The sense stuff really isn't my bag as much, but i was/am interested. Others are working on the CM, but with no official release in play, no one wants to put theirs out. I have built it successfully, but have no intention of trying to lay it out there when other devs have been working on it before I got here. My thing is this: when I got tired of waiting for devs to come up with new things, I was told to put up or shut up. It was good advice; I have no coding experience specifically, but I like to learn and have been successful at not only compiling and maintaining custom builds, but also starting 'Learn to do it yourself' threads in two different device forums. I like to learn and compile and share. That's it. I don't need (or want) attention or grateful fans or any of that crap. All I want to do is open the doors for more builds and more users getting off their asses and building for themselves. It seems like a win-win to me, but I feel resistance and it is disappointing. I will get off my soapbox now
I typically touch base with any dev who is the creator/maintainer of any ROM I am interested in pursuing. My experience has been more of a quick 'try it out and see what you get' response or 'it can't be done'. This is after I have asked for not only a blessing, but for relevant information and possibly assistance. Maybe I am just hitting up devs who are already frustrated and don't want someone like me asking a bunch of questions, I don't know....
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you can start by helping to get things working in sense 4.2.2 beta rom
flex360 said:
you can start by helping to get things working in sense 4.2.2 beta rom
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I looked your thread up and I think we'd get along great. Anybody who says 'if you don't like me, GOOD' is someone I wanna hang with. It's also funny you should mention helping with that sense version because that's exactly what I was trying to do. Sense aint even my bag, but I was going to look into it from the SVD side to see what I could learn. Maybe I just rubbed that guy the wrong way or something. Regardless, I can't promise how much help I will actually be, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Tell me what you need and the right places to look and I'll do whatever I can. Be cool
BMP7777 said:
I looked your thread up and I think we'd get along great. Anybody who says 'if you don't like me, GOOD' is someone I wanna hang with. It's also funny you should mention helping with that sense version because that's exactly what I was trying to do. Sense aint even my bag, but I was going to look into it from the SVD side to see what I could learn. Maybe I just rubbed that guy the wrong way or something. Regardless, I can't promise how much help I will actually be, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Tell me what you need and the right places to look and I'll do whatever I can. Be cool
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do you have google hangout?
I think one issue is that there is an update to 4.3 looking for the Sprint One. This will undoubtely contain new radios and firmware that will help our phones run on 4.3+. Since this is a know update, many devs have decided to forego work on the the current 4.1.2 Sense ROMs. Some are working on the 4.2.2 Sense ROM, but with no leak, or Sprint version it is much harder work. Also, there is only source for up to 1.29. The source from the 1.31 update is not available and it has caused issues with ROMs based on that update.
Personally I don't get your complaint though. There is a lot of development and a wide selection of ROMs available from Stock Android 4.1 to 4.3 to Stock Sense, to heavily themed Sense ROMs. What exactly is not available that you want?
flex360 said:
do you have google hangout?
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[email protected]
raptoro07 said:
I think one issue is that there is an update to 4.3 looking for the Sprint One. This will undoubtely contain new radios and firmware that will help our phones run on 4.3+. Since this is a know update, many devs have decided to forego work on the the current 4.1.2 Sense ROMs. Some are working on the 4.2.2 Sense ROM, but with no leak, or Sprint version it is much harder work. Also, there is only source for up to 1.29. The source from the 1.31 update is not available and it has caused issues with ROMs based on that update.
Personally I don't get your complaint though. There is a lot of development and a wide selection of ROMs available from Stock Android 4.1 to 4.3 to Stock Sense, to heavily themed Sense ROMs. What exactly is not available that you want?
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This really wasn't meant to be some complaint thread with a bunch of whining; just the opposite, really. I just wanted feedback on how I am perceiving things around here. I'm cool with being told I have it wrong; was hoping for it actually. And you pointed out exactly what I mean in part. Sense this and stock that is the rule of the day here. That's ok. Everyone is allowed to like whatever they want and if sense and stock are the most wanted builds then so be it. But, I am a self-proclaimed customization junkie, for better or for worse. Personally, I like more fully custom ROM choices and have been beating my head against the wall trying to get some Beanstalk love here but without success to this point. BS is already set in 4.3 and matched with CMs 10.2 releases, so I'm stumped. If you have knowledge, I would be happy to show you some of my errors. I do think you make a great point about the whole place being in flux due to the impending 4.3 release. Like I said before, I just want to open up some development doors and get more interest in development in general. Maybe I have hit up the wrong devs or caught them at bad times. It happens.
BMP7777 said:
[email protected]
This really wasn't meant to be some complaint thread with a bunch of whining; just the opposite, really. I just wanted feedback on how I am perceiving things around here. I'm cool with being told I have it wrong; was hoping for it actually. And you pointed out exactly what I mean in part. Sense this and stock that is the rule of the day here. That's ok. Everyone is allowed to like whatever they want and if sense and stock are the most wanted builds then so be it. But, I am a self-proclaimed customization junkie, for better or for worse. Personally, I like more fully custom ROM choices and have been beating my head against the wall trying to get some Beanstalk love here but without success to this point. BS is already set in 4.3 and matched with CMs 10.2 releases, so I'm stumped. If you have knowledge, I would be happy to show you some of my errors. I do think you make a great point about the whole place being in flux due to the impending 4.3 release. Like I said before, I just want to open up some development doors and get more interest in development in general. Maybe I have hit up the wrong devs or caught them at bad times. It happens.
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Part of the issue might be that users are afraid of using Cm as it has a nasty habit of bricking phones that no one of notoriety has looked into, acknowledged, or found a solution to.
Kraizk said:
Part of the issue might be that users are afraid of using Cm as it has a nasty habit of bricking phones that no one of notoriety has looked into, acknowledged, or found a solution to.
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I haven't really been looking at it after my first run (I personally like Sense a lot, and AOSP didn't have a good way of dealing with the limited hardware options for me), but wasn't the brick-spree killed a while back?
Rirere said:
I haven't really been looking at it after my first run (I personally like Sense a lot, and AOSP didn't have a good way of dealing with the limited hardware options for me), but wasn't the brick-spree killed a while back?
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A couple of people developed a "consensus" that it had been fixed. then 2 more people bricked their phones. ALLEGEDLY the CPU has a tendency to over clock itself and lock at 1.7 Ghz
This is all fine and dandy yet no one can figure out why or how to stop it.
I thought so too
Sent from my One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
BMP7777 said:
I thought so too
Sent from my One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Like I said no one ever figured out why or how to stop it. A consensus was reached but then more people bricked. No developers could be bothered to take time out of their day to look into it though.
Kraizk said:
Like I said no one ever figured out why or how to stop it. A consensus was reached but then more people bricked. No developers could be bothered to take time out of their day to look into it though.
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I saw one guy who was addressing it and taking names and such, but then I guess it just faded away. Do you know of ongoing issues like this? Can all of the bricks be undoubtedly proven to be from no other cause? I think that would be the defining characteristic of lack of support; difficulty in proving cause. My build of CM10.2 runs fine as long as I don't try to change the font with Font Installer. And I am reasonably certain that it isn't from CM all by itself. I have the same issue with Illusion ROM 4.2.2. Anybody know why we can't change the font? My thread; I can change topic if I want to
BMP7777 said:
I saw one guy who was addressing it and taking names and such, but then I guess it just faded away. Do you know of ongoing issues like this? Can all of the bricks be undoubtedly proven to be from no other cause? I think that would be the defining characteristic of lack of support; difficulty in proving cause. My build of CM10.2 runs fine as long as I don't try to change the font with Font Installer. And I am reasonably certain that it isn't from CM all by itself. I have the same issue with Illusion ROM 4.2.2. Anybody know why we can't change the font? My thread; I can change topic if I want to
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It is the only common factor in permanent bricks. Phone gets hot, phone wont charge. All other "bricks" are user induced because people did not understand what S-Off meant, what wiping in TWRP means, what GSM means etc etc.
So how many confirmed permanent bricks and when was the last? Has anyone proven a cause? Contacted HTC or CM or Sprint? If there were twenty cases with only 5 confirmed, then it isn't that big from a larger standpoint. See what I mean? That would explain what you see as a lack of support? Has this happened to you?
BMP7777 said:
I thought so too
Sent from my One using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Check your hangouts.
BMP7777 said:
Why does there seem to be very little development going on here and why is the development that is taking place so closely guarded? I thought everyone wanted more choices and new options..... I see that there is current and ongoing 10.2 development (hell, I've even built it), but no one wants to release it. I'm hearing that the last guy who did that got banned. So, if everyone is waiting for OFFICIAL builds to be released first, why are there none being officially worked on? Two times in the last three weeks I have inquired about wanting to work on some new development and have either been told straight out not to release or been effectively threatened with reporting before I have even begun an attempt. I don't know if maybe there has been a rash of jerks who are trying to claim ownership of work that does not belong to them or what, but I've never seen as much negativity about new builds in any thread I have been a part of. I want to claim ownership of nothing; I only want to open doors. I guess I'll just work on things for my own use and leave this forum to the guys currently running it. HMPH :angel:
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You could build us a GSM version ROM that works on the sprint HTC One. You'd be a hero if you could do that. We've already unlocked our phones and are able to connect to the ATT / TMO but only manually. When the signal is lost it seems to still be looking to auto connect to sprint...I would think this should be a simple setting software but I know nothing about phone ROMs.
Beck04vall said:
You could build us a GSM version ROM that works on the sprint HTC One. You'd be a hero if you could do that. We've already unlocked our phones and are able to connect to the ATT / TMO but only manually. When the signal is lost it seems to still be looking to auto connect to sprint...I would think this should be a simple setting software but I know nothing about phone ROMs.
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Man, if I could do that I'd be a GOD. :angel:
I love lamp
Haha Naw but I see your point but I love and appreciate every devolepers effort here on this forum ..there not a a lot but a bunch of smart and quietly brilliant devs here ...I'm comfortable but the more the merrier
Sent from my HTCONE using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Before I start saying anything and before anyone starts ranting or fighting or whatever I want to make one thing crispy clear: I don't want, under any circumstances, to fight or argue in any way with other developers, contributors, users, whatsoever nor do I want to claim anything as correct. I am anytime ready to accept it if I am proven wrong for anything. Show me a proof against what I said and I will accept it. I'm not claiming anything to be right what I'm saying, but as long as it is not proven wrong I'm assuming it is right. Of course some statements base on assumptions and guesses, hence there is no reason for ranting about something particular I said that I am not entirely sure of. I just want to get this out because it has been sitting inside of me for a while and this is the only way I can get it out without offending or insulting anyone.
A statement from my side regarding TWRP and ROMs for the OP5:
I have seen many device trees so far, and the "official" TWRP as well and I'm pretty disappointed to see people not wanting to work together. Of course there are exceptions, for example I have been working together with @benschhold and @gtpitch on TWRP as well as on ROMs and it has been a pretty good experience so far. But I have also seen @Dees_Troy releasing his own TWRP. I tried to contact him and whoever is behind TWRP earlier to get a working TWRP up and running and official. No response. At least I haven't seen anything. I am anytime ready to work together and build working stuff, but I'm not ready to see something that is exactly the same as I did (his TWRP literally has the same, if not more, issues than mine, as far as user reports have told us) and releases it as an official product which should have been tested and does not even fix the issues we have so far.
I know mine is unofficial and I have stated nowhere that this would be official but if you check the sources used for my recovery as well as take the user reports into consideration you will notice that none of the issues we currently have on the now latest recovery image, that is version 72, have been fixed in either mine or his recovery. I would have liked to work together with developers to build a stable, fully working custom recovery with as many parts of it totally free and open-sourced for anyone to inspect. Regarding authorship, I'm anytime ready to correct authors in case they are wrong. What I am not ready for is seeing others taking my work and putting it under their own authorship so that nobody will know about what I did and instead honor the non-existent work of others misleadingly causing the community to think I would have stolen the work from others.
As I already said, I am open to any corrections regarding this.
Another aspect is the custom ROM section. While it's all good and fine to see ROMs coming out for the OP5, none of these are actually stable and fully tested. They might have been flashed and booted up and roughly checked for functionality but not actually tested for quality (not claiming anything here). I really can see a race between ROMs, maybe even a war, everyone perhaps even stealing the work of each other and claiming to be first but of course saying it's super highly experimental and whatsoever.
Why is this happening? I know I have very low reputation for saying anything in this matter, even though I am lead developer and co-founder of a ROM. I don't want to claim that anyone stole my work, and I don't want to be showing examples as they might not even be right because some things can really be done by anyone without seeing what others did. But still, everyone is racing against each other, except for a few ROMs, and trying to say hey yo we brought this rom out for jellyburger super fast and we are the best... blablabla, whatsoever, make sure to decrypt, make sure not to do this not to do that, note this doesn't work.... I guess y'all get the point.
Why do people work against each other and not together? Just trying to be the best, the first, whatsoever? I mean it's cool when you are first and best but it's not cool pretending to be so and in reality just having taken a WIP tree from whatever github profile you just went on and saying your ROM is the first, while in reality you actually don't have any idea about what you are doing. Guys, really.... I appreciate when people do in fact help bringing up custom roms for the OP5, I admit that I also take advantage of that for building my own rom, but I also try to improve it, contribute to it, to make sure others have access to my work and using it without changing authorship. Of course many developers e. g. copy whole directories into their device tree instead of getting the whole commit history in, and, to some extent, that is more or less acceptable, because there is no really convenient way of doing so, but at least, when picking individual commits, do keep authorship. Thanks for your understanding and I hope this community does not become corrupted.
I'm open for a peaceful discussion in this thread, let's get it started!
Cheeseburger developers and testers who can provide logs shall join https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAEN_kkG6_WJe8IlG2Q
nadejo said:
Cheeseburger developers and testers who can provide logs shall join https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAEN_kkG6_WJe8IlG2Q
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Is not a bad beginning, but there actually is a dev group, so in case anyone wants to work together with each other, let me know. (Developers only)
Sad but true how many ROMs for the op5 have there source in the op?
Surely it's better for all of us to work collectively towards building a better base
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
a g bell said:
Sad but true how many ROMs for the op5 have there source in the op?
Surely it's better for all of us to work collectively towards building a better base
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
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Trees don't have to be equal but everyone should share contributions and help each other.
xdvs23 said:
Trees don't have to be equal but everyone should share contributions and help each other.
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The general issue here is we all work opensource even if they are official teamwin they could just copycated your changes(im not saying this just assuming), dont want to insult anyone here but thats how it goes opensource projects are open and you cant change this, on the other hand they could actually start working on it legitely even if your recorvery is pretty stable(i would say 99%) they started it before but were able to get it to same point but later. As for now we need more developers in kernel section but i see you doing a good job keep it up my dude. :good:
MasterDomino said:
The general issue here is we all work opensource even if they are official teamwin they could just copycated your changes(im not saying this just assuming), dont want to insult anyone here but thats how it goes opensource projects are open and you cant change this, on the other hand they could actually start working on it legitely even if your recorvery is pretty stable(i would say 99%) they started it before but were able to get it to same point but later. As for now we need more developers in kernel section but i see you doing a good job keep it up my dude. :good:
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The point is that it seems to be that they don't even care about their users. Don't quote me on that, as it might be wrong, but it seems to be that they simply just want to look down on other developers and be the big guys.
While I try to provide good support as much as possible, and release all my changes mostly individually, he simply gave it out once and every now and then might eventually look at the last 5 posts and maybe answer. I mean... I know he probably has alot of work to do but still. Released something officially without even checking for bugs. They say they make sure they provide quality but I can't see the quality there.
And for the other thing you mentioned... Most of the things they have in their tree really seem to be something that has been around for a longer time, but not actually made by themselves and just committed recently:
I don't really know why everyone tells to.keep authorship and maintaining a commit history and what not but end up simply copy and pasting the whole tree and commit that at once. Whatever. If this doesn't stop soon, I will start thinking about whether it is really worth doing this because from my point of view this is just looking down on me and releasing something that does not even work quite as well just to keep me away. I know I might be wrong anytime but this is what it feels like.
xdvs23 said:
The point is that it seems to be that they don't even care about their users. Don't quote me on that, as it might be wrong, but it seems to be that they simply just want to look down on other developers and be the big guys.
While I try to provide good support as much as possible, and release all my changes mostly individually, he simply gave it out once and every now and then might eventually look at the last 5 posts and maybe answer. I mean... I know he probably has alot of work to do but still. Released something officially without even checking for bugs. They say they make sure they provide quality but I can't see the quality there.
And for the other thing you mentioned... Most of the things they have in their tree really seem to be something that has been around for a longer time, but not actually made by themselves and just committed recently:
I don't really know why everyone tells to.keep authorship and maintaining a commit history and what not but end up simply copy and pasting the whole tree and commit that at once. Whatever. If this doesn't stop soon, I will start thinking about whether it is really worth doing this because from my point of view this is just looking down on me and releasing something that does not even work quite as well just to keep me away. I know I might be wrong anytime but this is what it feels like.
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The next thing here is we shouldn't really assume anything cuz it might be making us look stupid, i would generally say to not care about what they do and i can say that most phones i had, used twrp from users there was no official ones and even if there was it wasn't functioning like other.
Right now how i see it is they opened a thread and called it official(i don't remember if they called it stable) and most users like official stuff so this generally looks funny from your pov, from mine too as i am self called open source developer and i know general ideas behind being open.
The only issue here i can see is that he doesn't respond to you soo it looks bad i really wouldn't assume anything cuz it can piss off a few ppl that's what i want to generally tell you to kindof watch out on the community around this because it already looks weird. If you want you can pm me with your telegram nickname and ill add you to a group where we work on a kernel fixing a small gelatinous issue some(me included) have. Would be for best if he answered to your pms soo you can have a talk and for now it looks like "stolen" work but at the same time we shouldn't assume stuff, for now i don't really know what to say on this whole matter it really looks quite weird and i don't like it too.
MasterDomino said:
The next thing here is we shouldn't really assume anything cuz it might be making us look stupid, i would generally say to not care about what they do and i can say that most phones i had, used twrp from users there was no official ones and even if there was it wasn't functioning like other.
Right now how i see it is they opened a thread and called it official(i don't remember if they called it stable) and most users like official stuff so this generally looks funny from your pov, from mine too as i am self called open source developer and i know general ideas behind being open.
The only issue here i can see is that he doesn't respond to you soo it looks bad i really wouldn't assume anything cuz it can piss off a few ppl that's what i want to generally tell you to kindof watch out on the community around this because it already looks weird. If you want you can pm me with your telegram nickname and ill add you to a group where we work on a kernel fixing a small gelatinous issue some(me included) have. Would be for best if he answered to your pms soo you can have a talk and for now it looks like "stolen" work but at the same time we shouldn't assume stuff, for now i don't really know what to say on this whole matter it really looks quite weird and i don't like it too.
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Yeah that"s what I thought too but on the other hand, if you don't say anything, then nothing will change. Perhaps it won't change even after saying, but often it does.
You can add me to the telegram group if you want to, pm me the group link and I'll join but I can't promise to constantly be active there throughout the day.
xdvs23 said:
Yeah that"s what I thought too but on the other hand, if you don't say anything, then nothing will change. Perhaps it won't change even after saying, but often it does.
You can add me to the telegram group if you want to, pm me the group link and I'll join but I can't promise to constantly be active there throughout the day.
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tru dat.